Trade

Pistons receive:

• Chris Paul (18.7 points, 4.2 rebounds, 10.7 assists, 0.2 blocks, 2.1 steals)
• Emeka Okafor (10.4 points, 9.0 rebounds, 0.7 assists, 1.5 blocks, 0.7 steals)

Hornets receive:

• Tayshaun Prince (13.5 points, 5.1 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 0.4 blocks, 0.7 steals)
• Rodney Stuckey (16.6 points, 3.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 0.2 blocks, 1.4 steals)
• Greg Monroe (16.1 points, 9.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.5 blocks, 1.2 steals)
• Austin Daye (5.1 points, 2.5 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 0.4 blocks, 0.4 steals)
• Chris Wilcox (4.5 points, 3.4 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.4 blocks, 0.4 steals)
• 2012 first-round pick
• 2014 first-round pick
• 2011 Denver Nuggets second-round pick

Salaries

Data from ShamSports.com

Pistons receive:

Hornets receive:

• Player option/ early termination
• Team option
• Qualifying offer

Pistons’ perspective

Yes, just a couple months ago, I penned a post titled, “Pistons have NO chance of trading for Chris Paul.” A lot has changed since then. Mainly, Chris Paul has indicated a desire to leave New Orleans, and Detroit drafted Greg Monroe.

I still think the Pistons landing Paul is an extreme long shot, but let’s look at what it would take.

First off, would New Orleans even trade Paul? Ken Berger of CBSSports.com has the scoop on Paul’s meeting with the Hornets yesterday:

The Hornets are concentrating on Eastern Conference teams as trade partners in the event they decide it isn’t feasible to enter the 2010-11 season with their franchise player wanting out. And despite Monday’s optimistic spin, that is where things are headed, sources say.

Although Berger doesn’t mention the Pistons among the teams the Hornets are eyeing – and Paul didn’t include them on his list – they are in the Eastern Conference. So, that’s a plus.

The first move for Joe Dumars would be calling someone close to Chris Paul – as close as possible, to avoid Paul’s people squashing the idea based on Detroit’s reputation (the city’s, not the team’s) – and see if he would be receptive to joining the Pistons. I think winning is the biggest force behind Paul’s demands (although it may not be the biggest reason those close to him are pushing a trade, too), and Dumars could sell him on the fact that he already put together one championship team.

If Paul wouldn’t be content with a trade to Detroit, that’s the end of it. If he would be, Dumars should call the Hornets.

I think this a competitive offer the Hornets would have to take seriously if they’re actually willing to deal Paul.

Tayshaun Prince is a very good player, and Rodney Stuckey is already solid and still has potential to grow. Plus, both have expiring contracts, which would give New Orleans a lot of flexibility.

Greg Monroe and Austin Daye are talented players with skills in drove, and with a combined seven years left on their rookie contracts, they’re extremely affordable.

Chris Wilcox is 27, but talented enough that many believe he could still find his niche in the league. (For the record, I don’t.) Mostly, he’s there to make the numbers work, but for filler, he’s not bad.

Those two first-round picks could be valuable if Paul doesn’t help the Pistons win any more than he helped New Orleans. Even if he does, two picks are two picks.

Besides acquiring a player with a non-guaranteed contract (like Erick Dampier), this trade would save the Hornets about as much money this year as possible in a trade giving up only Paul and Okafor. And given Okafor’s hefty contract, the savings in future years would be significant, too.

By trading Paul, the Hornets would almost certainly be rebuilding. I doubt anyone will trade someone near Paul’s talent level to get him (meaning nobody like LeBron James, Dwight Howard or Kevin Durant will be on the move). This trade would give New Orleans a lot of young talent, draft picks and cap flexibility to start over.

But trading for Paul is tricky. Not only do you have to give up enough to satisfy the Hornets, you must have enough left to build a competitive team before Paul becomes a free agent in two years. I think this trade would give the Pistons a real shot doing that.

Check out this lineup:

• Paul
• Richard Hamilton/ Ben Gordon
• Jonas Jerebko
• Ben Wallace
• Emeka Okafor

For everyone who says Hamilton needs to play next to a traditional point guard, he’d get one. He and Gordon would be the team’s main scorers, and Paul would certainly help there, too.

The front line would do the dirty work/rebounding/etc. Plus, Paul could get those three their share of easy baskets.

Perhaps best of all, it would be a good group defensively. With a pair of athletic shot blocker in Wallace and Okafor, Hamilton could even play a fair share of his minutes at small forward.

The Pistons would have a solid reserves unit with Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Jason Maxiell, Will Bynum and the mid-level exception (Josh Howard?).

I think that’s the type of team that could make a run deep into the playoffs. That’s only a ‘could,’ though, and there are long-term questions.

What happens when Wallace retires? Maybe Jerebko could take over that role, but Wallace is a big reason I think that team could do damage. Those would be mighty big shoes to fill.

How big of a burden would Okafor’s contract be? He’s overpaid, no doubt. But he’s still productive and plays a critical position. Obviously, the salary cap has yet to be determined for future seasons (and it’s especially unpredictable given the Collective Bargaining Agreement is set to expire), but if the new CBA is similar to the current one, I think the Pistons could avoid paying the luxury tax – even with this trade.

How costly will giving up those draft picks be? I designed the offer with 2012 and 2014 picks because those are the years Paul and Okafor will likely be free agents. If there are any years the Pistons would rather have the extra cap room than the picks, it would be those. So, the risk is still there, but I think it’d be hedged a little bit.

And of course, the big question: What if Paul leaves in 2012? That’s the risk I think you take to get a player whom I think has a good shot at becoming the second-best point guard of all time.

Hornets’ perspective

Ryan Schwan of Hornets247.com solicited Chris Paul trade ideas from several TrueHoop Network members and ranked them in reverse order. Guess which offer he listed last – or to be clear, won the competition. Yup, this one.

OK, the Pistons were 1B of the two teams in the “Let’s talk Business” group. The Magic were 1A – on the condition the Hornets could flip Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter. I think that’s much easier said than done, so I’m declaring the Pistons the winner.

Schwan on this offer:

It’s freakish that I’m picking the Pistons offer as one of the best ones.  I didn’t think they’d have enough talent to swing it, honestly.  Still – Monroe fills the hole at center, Prince/Daye fill the hole at the 3, and Stuckey is the perfect combo guard behind Collison and Thornton.  Oh – and since what’s left in Detroit won’t be world-shaking, the picks they are offering should at least still be mid-rounders.

My response

It surprised me, too, that the Pistons could be in position to land Paul. Even if the trade isn’t made, it’s just further evidence Monroe was an excellent draft pick. Without him, Detroit wouldn’t be in the discussion.

I’m not stunned by Schwan’s lack of confidence in a post-trade Pistons team. They’d be far from a sure thing. But like I said above, I think the players would complement each other well

A Hornets partisan believes this offer deserves consideration. That’s a good sign. Dumars, get on the phone.

Verdict

Make no mistake: this trade wouldn’t put the Pistons out of the woods yet. Paul can become a free agent in two years, and whoever acquires him must spend that time convincing him to stay. There is no guarantee the Pistons can do that.

Because they don’t play in a destination city, the Pistons must show Paul they can win a title with him. And even then, it might not be enough.

This trades calls for the Pistons to give up a huge amount of young, affordable talent – plus draft picks and taking Emeka Okafor’s contract. If Paul leaves in two years or decides he doesn’t want to be in Detroit a year from now, the trade could set the Pistons back nearly a decade.

But I think Henry Abbott of TrueHoop said it best:

Here’s a rule of thumb I’ve developed to help you through it: If you’re getting Chris Paul, it’s a good deal.

Pistons receive:

• Jose Calderon (10.3 points, 2.1 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 0.1 blocks, 0.7 steals)
• Reggie Evans (3.4 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.1 blocks, 0.5 steals)

Raptors receive:

• Rip Hamilton (18.1 points, 2.7 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 0.1 blocks, 0.7 steals)
• Chris Wilcox (4.5 points, 3.4 rebounds, 0.5 assists, 0.4 blocks, 0.4 steals)

Salaries

Data from ShamSports.com

Pistons receive:

Raptors receive:

• Fully unguaranteed if waived on or before Aug. 15, 2012

Pistons’ perspective

Unlike many people out there, I don’t believe it’s imperative that the Pistons trade Rip Hamilton. But in the event that they do, I also don’t believe that a comparably talented big man is coming back in return. There really just aren’t many out there who would help.

Even an all-baggage team guy like Zach Randolph, who is again having some off-the-court problems, is not a guy who can easily be obtained. He has an always valuable expiring contract and Memphis has Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo on the perimeter, so Hamilton probably isn’t high on their wish list.

So if a good big man is likely out of the question, and if Hamilton is dealt, the Pistons should try to net a competent point guard in return. Calderon is a great shooter — nearly 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from three-point range and 90 percent from the line for his career. He’s very steady running an offense with nearly a 4-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio for his career. And if you have any doubts that the Pistons could use a more willing passer in the backcourt, just compare Calderon’s assist percentage (assists per 100 possessions) to the Pistons’ guards last season: Will Bynum led Detroit at 28.2 percent. Rodney Stuckey, who played the bulk of the team’s PG minutes, was at 24.7 percent. Calderon’s was at 33.8 percent last year, and that was the worst mark he had since his rookie season. His two previous seasons in Toronto, he was over 40 percent.

He does have downsides. Namely, he’s pretty terrible defensively, although you have to admire the way he didn’t get rattled when Kevin Garnett was pulling his annual ‘pick on men much smaller than me’ tricks a year ago. Replacing Hamilton with Calderon undoubtedly makes the Pistons backcourt a little worse defensively, but with Stuckey’s progression as a defender a year ago, the benefits Calderon will bring to the offense might be worth it.

The other piece in the trade is Evans, who has an expiring contract. But while that is the most appealing part of what Evans brings, he might also fill a need. The Pistons have been searching for a veteran big man in free agency. I have my doubts they’ll be able to find one — veteran bigs tend to be in demand and tend to end up chasing rings on good teams. Detroit, as a rebuilding project with serious roster questions, doesn’t fit that mold, so getting a guy like Evans, a hard-nosed (Chris Kaman may describe him differently) hustle player and rebounder, via trade might be the best bet for Detroit. Evans has injury concerns, but if he’s semi-healthy, he’d be an adequate presence off the bench for Detroit.

Raptors’ perspective

Since I have impeccable timing, I began writing this post the day before Calderon was reportedly traded to Charlotte. I sent out e-mails to the guys at Raptors Republic, asking for their take on whether or not this was an offer they could see the team be interested in. Then, about a half hour after sending, it was reported that Calderon-to-Charlotte was official, so my first PistonPowered trade idea post looked ruined.

But shortly after the reports, Michael Jordan perhaps sensibly thought pairing a defensively challenged PG signed long-term with Larry Brown was not the best match, and backed out of the Calderon deal.

The general consensus in Raptors land is that GM Bryan Colangelo is pretty clearly looking for salary relief (the Charlotte deal would’ve been for expiring contract Tyson Chandler) in any deal for Calderon, which makes my little Hamilton scenario a bit more far-fetched, but two of the guys from Raptors Republic had brief replies when they thought Calderon was headed out of town to Charlotte. Here were the responses I got:

"I don’t think the Raptors would have any interest whatsoever in Rip Hamilton since we have two guys in Weems and DeRozan that are being bandied about as the future here.  Hamilton’s contract is very similar to Turkoglu’s, if not worse, and I just don’t see Colangelo taking that on."

And …

"I would have liked to get Richard Hamilton truth be told, but getting Diaw and Barbosa looks to be a better fit (given the euro style we want to play)."

My response

I disagree vehemently with the Turkoglu comparison. Contract-wise, Turkoglu is signed for one more year than Hamilton (he has a player option for 2013-14). He also appears to be rapidly declining and had a lousy season in Toronto. Hamilton is still a 20 points per game scorer, efficient and keeps himself in great shape. There’s no question that his contract is a much better value than Turkoglu’s.

That being said, I can certainly appreciate that Toronto wouldn’t be looking to add long-term deals or guys who would play in front of their promising Weems/DeRozan combo. I’m not sure a team is willingly going to give the Raps a starting center with an expiring contract for a solid but flawed and fairly expensive PG like Calderon now that the Chandler trade fell through, however.

The Verdict

There probably wouldn’t be much interest in this trade by either team, but as I’ve pointed out, I view the Pistons’ current personnel better suited to run a more free-wheeling offense, and a point guard like Calderon would go a long way toward making them a more exciting team to watch.

The Kings are also exploring trading picks, with one team (Detroit) squarely on the radar. If the Pistons would give up the No. 7 pick and Tayshaun Prince for the No. 5 pick and Andres Nocioni, I think they’d have a deal. But so far the Pistons have been adamant that they’re holding on to Prince, and I don’t think the Kings would do a Rip Hamilton-for-Nocioni swap.

• Dave Pemberton, The Oakland Press
• Chris Iott, MLive.com/ Booth Newspapers
• Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press
• Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free Press
• Keith Langlois, True Blue Pistons
• Eli Zaret, Detroit Pistons
• Patrick Hayes, Full-Court Press
• Justin Rogers, Full-Court Press
• Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed
• Brian Packey, Detroit Bad Boys
• Kevin Sawyer, Detroit Bad Boys
• Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys
• Jesse Murphy, Pistons Nation
• Jon Young, Flagrant2
• Dan Feldman, PistonPowered

I  want to thank everyone listed above for participating. I think this year’s roundtable has gone great and the bar is set very high for next year.

For the final question, I ask each roundtable participant a separate question. So, please give your thoughts on the questions that interest you in the comments.

Dave Pemberton, The Oakland Press

A lot of Pistons fans want to draft Keith Benson. How do you evaluate his NBA potential? (Pemberton used to cover the Oakland men’s basketball team for The Oakland Press.

The two big knacks on Benson are strength and defense. Benson has to add strength to his 6-foot-11, 225-pound frame to be affective at the NBA level. Defensively, he can come up with the highlight-reel block, but has trouble defending stronger players one-on-one. He averaged 10.5 rebounds per game, but will have trouble getting in good position against NBA talent unless he adds strength.

Benson’s offensive game showed a lot of improvement this past season. He has good footwork and a nice touch around the basket. He has a solid mid-range game and shot 72.4 percent from the free-throw line. The one knack again is strength and being able to get good position against NBA talent.

Head-to-head against likely lottery pick Cole Aldrich of Kansas, Benson had 20 points, six rebounds and four blocks, while Aldrich had four points, nine rebounds and three blocks. The two were roommates at the Amar’e Stoudemire skills camp last summer.

My guess is Benson will return for his senior season, but if he comes out and is available in the second round he might prove to be a good pick. I don’t see him as an early lottery pick this season, which is where Detroit will be picking.

Chris Iott, MLive.com/ Booth Newspapers

What has surprised you most about your first season covering the Pistons?

It is shocking how good the chocolate chip cookies that get delivered each game to Rick Mahorn are, but I have had only one, so further testing is needed. The Pistons’ locker room is substantially smaller than I expected, especially when compared with the Tigers’ clubhouse. The officials yell at the coaches a lot more than I thought they did. Ben Wallace had a much bigger impact on the team than I thought he would.

Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press

Which of the new Pistons is the best interview and why?

I actually like Ben Wallace. When he has something to say, he is very insightful and is a lot more gregarious than he lets on.

Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free Press

You’ve written that Pistons fans have become apathetic. Does it surprise you how disinterested they’ve been this year, and do you think their enthusiasm has room to go lower?

I’m not surprised. This was the convergence of a lot of different forces. The first and most obvious is the economy which has affected all of the local teams. The second is the long, sustained run of success that the team had. It was a terrific decade, but by the end, it had grown stale to the point where fans actually complained that the winning had gotten boring. Third was the wildly unpopular trade for Allen Iverson. Joe Dumars traded away the most popular player on the team (and maybe in the state) for a malcontent who submarined everything. And now we’re left with a bad team where the effort is easy to question on any given night. Can it go lower? I suppose anything is possible. What is there here to root for? There are no stars. There is no excitement. There is no trademark for the team. If ESPN were promoting a game, how would they do it? Come see Richard Hamilton and the Detroit Pistons? That won’t sell any seats.

Keith Langlois, Detroit Pistons

Who in the organization do you think has taken this season’s struggles the hardest?

Anybody who hates losing has absorbed the agony of this season, but John Kuester has to be the one who’s endured the most anguish. Veterans like Wallace, Prince and Hamilton haven’t experienced losing of this magnitude for years, if ever, but the success they’ve experienced has to mitigate this season’s disappointment to some degree. Joe Dumars knows the ebb and flow of the business. The rookies and young veterans have to focus as much on finding their niche as on the bigger picture of team success. But Kuester waited a long time for his shot at being a head coach and he knows this goes on his record. To have his shot undermined so thoroughly by injuries clearly has worn on him.

Eli Zaret, Detroit Pistons

Which current Piston do you think would make the best broadcaster after he retires and why?

Autin Daye wants to be a broadcaster and has a great grasp of the language; has an high basketball IQ and comes from a basketball family (Darren). He’s the obvious choice,seeing as he’s already doing man on the street interviews for the team website and in-arena show.

Patrick Hayes, Full-Court Press

As you’ve researched rookies for your Draft Dreams series, who has impressed you most compared to your initial impression and why?

Wall and Turner are obviously amazing and getting either of those guys could be potentially franchise-altering for Detroit. But there are a few less heralded players who I really like.

Feldman’s already made fun of me for this (I think it’s just the jilted UM fan inside him), so others will probably follow suit, but I love Ekpe Udoh. The knock on him as a prospect was the fact that his offensive game is not NBA ready. After watching about four Baylor games late in the season, including their tourney game against Duke, I think he’s much better offensively than people give him credit for. He’s a very good passer for a big man — Baylor was running their offense through him at times. He can turn and face up, put the ball on the floor a bit and he has range out to the college three-point line, something he didn’t have at Michigan. Udoh’s surged up draft projections as the season’s went on because of this.

Defensively, he’ll block shots. He needs to get stronger if he’s going to be the biggest player on a NBA team, but he’ll really help a team picking in the 10-15 range. The Big 12 was a good league for big men this year, and Udoh held his own.

I also love Georgetown’s Greg Monroe and Xavier Henry of Kansas. Monroe is one of the more polished bigs offensively in recent drafts and is a great passer. His defense is iffy, but he’s the most NBA-ready offensively of any college big.
Henry is raw, but he’s going to develop into an insanely good, physical and intense perimeter defender. He’s quick, he’s strong, he’s athletic and he’s competitive, all the traits in a lockdown defensive guy. I’m not as sold on his offense as his defense, but he’ll be a very good NBA player for a long time.
I like Patrick Patterson a lot as a late lottery/mid first round big who’s just solid in several facets of the game. Basically, I love everyone except Cole Aldrich.

Justin Rogers, Full-Court Press

Who will be a better defender with the Pistons, Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva?

This is a tough question to answer, but I’m leaning toward Gordon. He’s fairly strong for his size and he’s quick. If the Pistons offer solid help defense, Gordon’s deficiencies can be covered up. For his size and skill set it always surprises me how painfully slow Villanueva moves. His only serviceable defensive skill is the occasional blocked shot.

The number one thing I’d like to see both players work on is their pick-and-roll defense. Gordon has to be more physical working through screens and Villanueva has to be more efficient at both showing on the ball handler and recovering to his man.

Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed

If you were going to reconstruct Sheed using elements of current Pistons, what traits would you take from whom?

I would rather focus on the Swede than Sheed right now, but here goes.

The new and improved Sheed would have:

• Jonas Jerebko’s heart and hustle.
• Ben Wallace’s shot blocking.
• Jason Maxiell’s ability to take on anyone and go after every board.
• Tayshaun’s wingspan.
• Will Bynum’s speed.
• Ben Gordon’s shot (from last season).
• Rip Hamilton’s training techniques.
• Austin Daye’s temperament.
• And nothing from Charlie Villanueva.

Brian Packey, Detroit Bad Boys

Your bio (on the left sidebar) says you took a charge from Shane Battier. What’s the story there?

There is no story – it’s just a joke. Battier went to my high school and was friends with my older brothers (he was a baseball teammate of one of my brothers). I played AAU basketball through ninth grade and attended the Duke basketball camp in 8th grade because Battier went there. We talked a lot and played one-on-one, but I never took a charge from him. In fact, I was terrified of him (6′8" vs. 5′10") and he blocked A LOT of my shots. I think I lost like 21-1. I know some people don’t like Duke very much, but there’s nothing to dislike about Battier – he’s an all-around class-act, a smart basketball player, and an even smarter person.

Kevin Sawyer, Detroit Bad Boys

You wrote at midseason, "I don’t think the Pistons are a playoff team with Jerebko playing 30 mpg." Do you still think that’s the case and why?

I do. First, I think he needs to grow into his role as a sort of enforcer on the defensive end. Second, I think he’s going to need those three fouls a game in order to maintain his effectiveness. He’s new to the league, so his profile could change, but I think he’s going to bring the bulk of his value at the defensive end. Again, I’ll cite Varejao as a comparison point.

Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys

Do you think Charlie Villanueva realizes how good he is inside? After writing that post, is it even more infuriating watching how he plays?

I think Charlie’s confidence has taken quite a hit, but I’m sure he realizes how good his inside game is (hey, he shared my article on Facebook).  Personally, I’m not bothered by Charlie’s offense.  Some may complain about his three point attempts, but this is as much a result of coaching as it is about Charlie’s preference on offense.  Pistons fans are still scarred from the Ways of Rasheed, and Charlie’s three point shots are not as welcome as a result.  If Kuester didn’t want Charlie taking perimeter shots, he’d draft plays accordingly.

The infuriating part about Charlie’s play is obviously his defense.  It’s absolutely painful to watch.  His non-existent D and bad fouls have led John Kuester to pull him out of the starting lineup and then limit him to less than 18 minutes a game.  Kuester’s philosophy with Charlie is that you can earn minutes and shot attempts by playing solid defense.  What’s ironic, however, is that Villanueva earned solid minutes under stern, defensive stalwart Scott Skiles.  Now, Villanueva has begun earning DNP-CDs and no one really notices.

I’m hoping, as he likely is as well, that Charlie can turn it around next year.  In a perfect world, Villanueva would spend the summer in Ben Wallace’s weight room, drinking Myoplex and guarding pick-and-rolls.  With our luck, he’ll likely end up in Sean May’s kitchen drinking mayo and eating dinner rolls.

Jesse Murphy, Pistons Nation

You always seem to enjoy highlighting former fringe Pistons. Who is your favorite and why?

Never thought about it that way. I guess more than anything I enjoy being a fan of Pistons basketball and the team’s history. It’s easy to root for players like Grant Hill, Chauncey Billups, Ben Wallace, etc., but real fans know that the stars need guys to fill roles to help the team excel.

I don’t know if I can point to a clear favorite but one guy I feel that was pretty underrated that I enjoyed was Zeljko Rebraca. Zelly was a rugged low post player who had a nice touch down low. Plus he had that cool Silver Surfer tatt on his left arm.

Jon Young, Flagrant2

With a relatively new blog, what do you add to the Pistons blogosphere?

I do a weekly top-5 countdown on Mondays. It can range from anywhere to top 5 ugliest players to top-5 dunks, blocks etc. I mix it up and do something different every week. I try to have a recap of each game before the morning, and give insight to every game.

Previous

• How good would the Pistons have been this season if they weren’t hit with so many injuries?
• If you had to build a team around a current Piston besides Rodney Stuckey or Jonas Jerebko, whom would it be and why? (Please note if you’d rather build around this player than Stuckey or Jerebko.)
• Rodney Stuckey has been a key part of the Pistons’ long-term plans. Should that status change?
• If you were Joe Dumars, would you be on a one-year plan, two-year plan, three-year plan, etc.? What does your answer mean for this offseason?

Like with the other questions, please post your answers in the comments. I’d like this roundtable to involve everyone reading, too.

• Dave Pemberton, The Oakland Press
• Chris Iott, MLive.com/ Booth Newspapers
• Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press
• Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free Press
• Keith Langlois, True Blue Pistons
• Eli Zaret, Detroit Pistons
• Patrick Hayes, Full-Court Press
• Justin Rogers, Full-Court Press
• Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed
• Brian Packey, Detroit Bad Boys
• Kevin Sawyer, Detroit Bad Boys
• Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys
• Jesse Murphy, Pistons Nation
• Jon Young, Flagrant2
• Dan Feldman, PistonPowered

I  want to thank everyone listed above for participating. But I don’t want to hear just from them. Please post your answers to the question in the comments.  We can make this an even larger collection of thoughts about the Pistons.

Here’s today’s question:

If you were Joe Dumars, would you be on a one-year plan, two-year plan, three-year plan, etc.? What does your answer mean for this offseason?

Dave Pemberton, The Oakland Press

My top priority this offseason would be to bolster the Pistons frontcourt and help get the team in position to compete for a playoff spot next season. Whether it be in the draft, free agency or a trade, the Pistons have to improve up front. It’s frightening to think how bad Detroit’s frontcourt would have been without Ben Wallace this season.

This all starts with the draft and depending on the pick is likely the best option. Free agency won’t bring anything more than a temporary solution. Signing someone like Brad Miller, Erick Dampier or Brendan Haywood would be an improvement, but not a long-term solution. Bringing back Wallace would be among my plans, but only with a deal similar to the one he had this season.
Re-signing Will Bynum would also be a priority this offseason. Bynum’s a young player that has shown he can provide a nice spark off the bench and fill in as the starting point guard if needed.

Adding young talent this offseason or during next season would be part of my long-term plan because I would be looking to compete for a championship two or three years down the road.

Tayshaun Prince will be an attractive option in trades because of his expiring contract, but I wouldn’t give him away. He’s shown he can still play and with the motivation of getting a new contract could be a nice piece for Detroit next season. I would actively shop other veterans, but make sure I get some value in return.

Chris Iott, MLive.com/ Booth Newspapers

Joe Dumars has to be on an "every-year plan." Championship teams are not built overnight or even an offseason. Dumars has his work cut out for him, but no matter what he does, the Pistons are not going to win the 2010-11 NBA title. The Pistons can make a leap forward and make the playoffs next season, but Dumars will have to make one really good to great move in free agency and via a trade in addition to getting it right when it comes to the draft. But even a perfect offseason will leave another year or two of work to do. This truly is a team in transition.

Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press

I wouldn’t necessarily put a time frame on when the Pistons could return to challenging for a title. I would just treat this season as hitting rock bottom and work from there. If it takes one, two, three or however long, that’s how I would treat it. As for this off-season, without even making a move you are looking at a top-five pick, a high second-rounder and the midlevel exception. That offers the potential for three nice pieces (two of those slots should be big guys). And you assume Rip or Tay will be moved so who knows how many more new players will be around.  I will say this off-season will be huge for the future.

Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free Press

It’s impossible to define how long a plan can be. Dumars made it clear last off-season that he wasn’t content to allow for a long rebuild. So he got aggressive and signed Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva to awful contracts. And with the future of the franchise so unclear, I wonder how aggressive Dumars will be allowed to be. But I’m sure he’d love to unload some contracts, so there will be a lot of proposals and phone calls and offers. But in this economy, what team is going to want Rip Hamilton for three more years at 12.6 mil per year? Dumars has had a very good run as the Pistons GM. And I think he deserves the chance to fix this mess. But he did create the mess. And I don’t see many ways out. At least not in the short term.

Keith Langlois, Detroit Pistons

My answer would be that I won’t limit the possibilities for next season but I also won’t do anything that limits the possibilities beyond next season. I think he’d say his intent is to put the Pistons in the best position to win as many games as possible next season without damaging their future beyond that. Get better now, but avoid the quick fix. He’s more likely to trade veterans for younger talent than vice versa, but I don’t think he’d rule out anything that would improve the Pistons now without recklessly endangering their future. As for what will shape his off-season, I think where the May 18 lottery places them will be a big piece of the picture.

Eli Zaret, Detroit Pistons

I think it’ll be at least a 2- if not a 3-year plan. This offseason he’ll get a top 5 pick; will probably try to trade some of his assets that need a change of scenery, like Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince and use his midlevel exception wisely. Billups was a midlevel back in ‘02-’03 and that worked out pretty well.

Patrick Hayes, Full-Court Press

The Pistons aren’t far off. They need what most teams do – a star playmaker, regardless of position. You can’t win in the NBA right now without a guy who can get his own shot on any possession. If the Pistons luck out in the draft and end up with Wall or Turner, then sign a serviceable big for part of the midlevel or make a trade for one, they’ll be a middle of the pack playoff team in the East next year.

This rebuilding project is going to take as long as it takes for the Pistons to get a top two pick in the draft. If that happens this year, they’ll be back soon. If it doesn’t, next year they should be better with improved health, but not significantly enough to become a playoff threat.

Justin Rogers, Full-Court Press

The Pistons are at least two years away, but they can make significant strides this offseason. First and foremost the Pistons can start the turnaround process in the NBA draft.The team is likely to have a top-six-or-seven pick, hopefully top three. Second, Tayshaun Prince’s value is starting to peak again. He’s been fantastic on the last third of the season and he’s entering in the final year of his contract. Dumars should be able to get pretty good value in a trade. Finally, the MLE must be used wisely. Free agency is flooded with superstars, so Dumars should be able to find a bargain on the market. Obviously the goal is to find another player like Billups, a younger player who is hasn’t met their potential, but is willing to work hard. Clearly that’s easier said than done.

Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed

Right now you want to get better every season. You don’t ever want to be on a two- or three-year plan. You focus around making your team the best you can every season. If it takes three years to make a championship push, so be it, but you need to go all out each year if you think you have the pieces that might work together.

As far as the offseason, Dumars needs size. Kwame Brown is gone, Ben Wallace might retire, and Chris Wilcox was like a ghost all season. That just leaves the undersized Jason Maxiell. If Austin Daye doesn’t go on a weightlifting, eating binge during the summer or gets blasted with whatever Bruce Banner did, the Pistons are in serious trouble.

Dumars also either needs to resign Will Bynum, who will get much more than his $825,000 salary next season, or find a point guard to take his place.

As for the current duo of Tayshaun and Rip, I’m sure he’ll take calls on both. Rip has a difficult contract to move, but Tayshaun’s 12 million will come off the books after the 2011 season, so the Pistons could get someone to make that deal.

Brian Packey, Detroit Bad Boys

Presumably, the Pistons are going to add 2-3 quality talents this off-season with the draft and the MLE. Hopefully, one of those will be the big-man, paint presence the Pistons so desperately need. Of course, whether this year was a result of all the injuries, or a true indication of the talent on this team will also affect Joe’s plan significantly.

Kevin Sawyer, Detroit Bad Boys

I’d look toward 2011-2012. Gordon and Villanueva will still be in their 20s, Stuckey will be hitting his stride, Austin Daye should be a major player and our lottery pick will have a year under his belt. I think Dumars needs to think about what he can do to move Hamilton. If that means moving an asset (like Jerebko, or even a draft pick), I think that he should consider doing so.

That said, economics being what they are, I wouldn’t hesitate to spend a few million toward a playoff push next year.   

Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys

Although I’d love to see Joe Dumars turn this ship around in one, two or even three years, I remain pessimistic about the future. The Pistons are locked into some serious contracts with under-performing players and a roster with no real identity. Sadly, my hope for this team’s future is entirely dependent on numbered balls in a lottery machine.

If Detroit winds up with any of the top three picks, the future will again be bright. I like DeMarcus Cousins and Evan Turner a lot more than I like John Wall, and would prefer either going forward. If we draft 4th or beyond, we’ll likely snag a role player and a longer wait for a turn-around.

Should we draft after the top three are taken, and Minnesota nets DeMarcus Cousins, we could find a trade partner in Wolves GM David Kahn. I suggested a trade scenario with Minny back in January, moving Tayshaun and Stuckey for Jefferson and Sessions. If Minnesota drafts Cousins they will most certainly move Jefferson, and Detroit should do whatever it can to bring him to Detroit. A starting line of Sessions, Gordon, Jerebko, Jefferson and Aldrich sounds quite attractive to me (well, any lineup with Jerebko is attractive, of course). Although some may question giving Sessions the keys at the point, he is precisely the kind of rare player that ends up making a GM look brilliant – just like Chauncey did of Dumars many years ago.

Jesse Murphy, Pistons Nation

That’s a tough question because of the salary commitments that Joe has made the past few seasons, see question #2.

Jon Young, Flagrant2

If I was Joe Dumars I would be on a one-year plan.

The Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva contracts look real bad right now, and the chance of shedding them is unlikely. If they could find any team willing to trade an above average big man for Rip I would jump on it.

The offseason depends a lot on the draft. If the Pistons get the #1 pick I think they would get John Wall at point guard and move Stuckey to the 2 guard. That would make trading Rip a lot easier. If they get a big man in the draft they could cut Chucky Atkins and go for a veteran point guard, not even necessary to start but to help run the team and manage the offense (Jason Williams for example).

The Pistons need to find a big man this offseason, preferably one who can shoot the ball maybe a Brad Miller type. The post has been very weak this year. I don’t see any point in resigning Kwame Brown, Chris Wilcox hasn’t done nearly as much as expected and Ben Wallace isn’t going to give you a scoring option. If the Pistons can draft a solid big man and keep Ben Wallace around for defense, the post situation will at the very least upgrade from this year. Tayshaun has been playing good lately and he might be the best option for acquiring a big man through trade, which if you’re Joe Dumars you have to be looking for.

Jonas is most likely going to improve next year, Charlie V has something to prove, and Ben Gordon can’t be any worse than this season. Through the draft, hopefully a trade, and development of the current roster the Pistons should improve in the next few seasons.

Dan Feldman, PistonPowered

I’d be on a one-year plan – almost completely.

I’d still draft the best player available rather than someone with limited upside who’s more apt to contribute right away. And I wouldn’t trade Rodney Stuckey, Jonas Jerebko or Austin Daye for someone much older.

But I’d be willing to trade Charlie Villanueva, Ben Gordon or Will Bynum for someone with less upside, but who would be better right now.

I’d also go for need over luxury in free agency – not what Joe Dumars did with Ben Gordon last summer.

Dumars isn’t stupid. He knows Gordon plays a similar role to Richard Hamilton. But I think he saw Gordon as the type of special player on whom you don’t pass. (Whether he’s right remains to be seen.)

I’d use the mid-level exception on the big man who can help Detroit most right now – regardless of his age. Luis Scola or Marcus Camby would be ideal, but they’re probably a stretch. Someone like Jermaine O’Neal, Udonis Haslem or Drew Gooden would likely make more sense.

The goal should be to get good right away, especially because it will increase the value of the expensive players the Pistons already have. Detroit’s high-priced players are good, but if they play for a loser too long, their value will plummet.

Look at Andre Iguodala, Elton Brandon and Samuel Dalembert in Philadelphia. They’re overpaid, but all three can still play. Their trade value is shot because the 76ers have been so miserable.

On the other hand, check out Rashard Lewis in Orlando or Kenyon Martin in Denver. They’re overpaid and productive, too. But their trade value is much higher than it should be because their teams are so good.

Winning masks a lot of issues, and the Pistons have plenty of those. Winning won’t make the problems completely disappear, but it will make them a lot easier to fix.

Previous

• How good would the Pistons have been this season if they weren’t hit with so many injuries?
• If you had to build a team around a current Piston besides Rodney Stuckey or Jonas Jerebko, whom would it be and why? (Please note if you’d rather build around this player than Stuckey or Jerebko.)
• Rodney Stuckey has been a key part of the Pistons’ long-term plans. Should that status change?

Like with the other questions, please post your answer in the comments. I’d like this roundtable to involve everyone reading, too.

• Dave Pemberton, The Oakland Press
• Chris Iott, MLive
• Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press
• Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free Press
• Keith Langlois, True Blue Pistons
• Eli Zaret, Detroit Pistons
• Patrick Hayes, Full-Court Press
• Justin Rogers, Full-Court Press
• Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed
• Brian Packey, Detroit Bad Boys
• Kevin Sawyer, Detroit Bad Boys
• Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys
• Jesse Murphy, Pistons Nation
• Jon Young, Flagrant2
• Dan Feldman, PistonPowered

I  want to thank everyone listed above for participating. But I don’t want to hear just from them. Please post your answers to the question in the comments.  We can make this an even larger collection of thoughts about the Pistons.

Here’s today’s question:

If you had to build a team around a current Piston besides Rodney Stuckey or Jonas Jerebko, whom would it be and why? (Please note if you’d rather build around this player than Stuckey or Jerebko.)

Dave Pemberton, The Oakland Press

That’s a tough question. The Pistons in my opinion don’t have a franchise player, and that includes Stuckey and Jerebko. There is not one guy you can point to and say he’s the guy. With that being said, I think Ben Gordon is a player that should be in the Pistons’ future plans.

Despite his struggles this season, Gordon has a proven track record. I don’t believe the Gordon we have seen in 2010 is the real Gordon because I don’t think he is at full strength. He is playing through a groin injury and not getting the minutes he is accustomed so his numbers are down.

He can provide instant offense whether it be off the bench or as a starter. He also showed last season that he can produce in the playoffs. Let Gordon get healthy and I think you’ll see the player the Pistons thought they were getting when they signed him.

Chris Iott, MLive

If you are going to build a team for the long haul and build it around a player currently on the roster, Rodney Stuckey would be the logical choice. The Pistons think he’s the real deal, a special young player with a ton of upside. Whether he is worthy of that praise, well, time will tell. If it’s not Stuckey or Jerebko – and as much as I like Jerebko, I don’t think you build a team around him – your only option would have to be Ben Gordon. It has been a strange season for Gordon, but if the Pistons deal Richard Hamilton in the offseason, it would clear up a logjam at the position and make Gordon’s role more important. The Pistons are not writing off Gordon. Fans shouldn’t either.

Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press

I’m not saying I would try to start over from scratch, but I think of LeBron, Wade and Kobe as guys to build a team around. There are several solid pieces on the Pistons (Stuckey and Jerebko included). But they are just pieces, not cornerstones.

Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free Press

Slim pickings there. I suppose by process of elimination I’ll go with Ben Gordon, although he’s been a big disappointment in his first year here. But with so much money and so many years tied into him, there isn’t much choice. Gordon’s track record in the league shows he can score, and that can’t be dismissed after only one season. I’ll be very curious to see what he does next year assuming that A) he’s healthy and B) he’s the starter or is getting starter’s minutes.

Keith Langlois, Detroit Pistons

You have to at least be intrigued by Austin Daye’s potential. He’s never going to look significantly different that he did coming into the league – but if he gains functional strength, there’s every chance he’ll become a unique player capable of scoring in the high teens and up and holding his own defensively thanks to his freakish length. Will Bynum’s also a guy I’d like to have on my side.

Eli Zaret, Detroit Pistons

There really is no one to specifically build around. Even in the title season of 2004, they were considered a team without a star. The hope is they’ll get a top-5 pick this year who can be that guy.

Patrick Hayes, Full-Court Press

It’s probably a stretch, but I’d say Will Bynum. Bynum, more than anyone else on the roster, embodies the philosophy Joe Dumars built the championship with – a hidden gem with something to prove, fueled certainly by talent, but also carrying a significant chip on his shoulder. Bynum’s a guard version of Ben Wallace when it comes to energy, and he was the Pistons best player for a solid stretch early in the season. Now, that doesn’t mean I’d go out and lock Bynum up for $7 million a year, as Joe Dumars seems to want to do for everyone now, but if the Pistons re-sign him to a cheap deal (which is how they got Wallace), they could be getting a tough, energetic, lead-by-example guy who pushes people with higher pedigrees and bigger contracts for playing time, making the entire backcourt more competitive with each other and better in the games.

Justin Rogers, Full-Court Press

There isn’t a player on this roster that I would consider building a team around. The Pistons are a team full of complimentary players. I wouldn’t even build around a player like Stuckey or Jerebko. Stuckey is a second or third option at best. I just don’t see him developing to an on-the-court leader night in and night out. Jerebko is the type of player you want on any team, but you don’t build around hustle players. If pressed to answer, I’d go with Daye. He has plenty of potential, and he’s young. Of course that answer is equivalent to answering “C” straight down on a 100-question true/false test.

Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed

That’s a difficult question. I can’t think of a player besides the two that can foot the bill right now. Rip and Tayshaun, are great players, but I think they’re both past the point where you would want to build around. The rest of this current configuration are more role players than anything.

If you put a gun to my head and I had to pick someone besides Stuckey or the Swede, it would  have to be Ben Gordon. His miserable season aside, I know what kind of player he is, and to be quite honest, I think he may be more suited to be a starter. We saw what he could do when he had the chance early in the season when Rip Hamilton was out. His defense is almost non-existent, and he tends to turn the ball over, but he can put up 30 if you need him to and hit the big money shot all in the same game.

Brian Packey, Detroit Bad Boys

I really don’t think the Pistons have anyone, besides maybe those two, that are worthy of being built around. They have a lot of pieces that could be key to a contender, complementing pieces, but not center-pieces. Depending on how he develops, though, Austin Daye could potentially become one of those types of players.

Kevin Sawyer, Detroit Bad Boys

Ben Gordon is the guy you have to think about building around. His contract is untradeable, and he has a lot more talent than he displayed this year. Keep in mind that Stuckey and Jerebko are only a couple years younger. I think Stuckey will be a late bloomer, and will eventually gel with Gordon, but Jerebko’s ceiling seems to be Anderson Varejao. You don’t build around Anderson Varejao.

Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys

Right now, we’re a building without a foundation. Detroit doesn’t have that one player on this team that can score efficiently and prolifically, draw double teams and defend the other end of the court. If Detroit gets lucky and can snag DeMarcus Cousins or Evan Turner in the draft, ask me again in June?

Jesse Murphy, Pistons Nation

I don’t see any of these guys as players a GM could center a team around. Guys like Stuckey and Jonas can be very important pieces to the puzzle, but I just don’t see them as "the guy". Unless Joe can pull off a miracle trade the Pistons will need to be lucky and acquire a franchise-type guy in the draft. Because I don’t believe we have the team and we sure don’t have the money to lure someone in free agency that will right the ship.

Jon Young, Flagrant2

I would go with Austin Daye. He is only going to get stronger and come into his body more. Once he figures out how to use his height he will be a threat. He can post up on most 3 guards at 6’11 and if a big man is guarding him they have to account for his three-point shooting. He has natural jump shot. He could really benefit from playing behind Tayshaun for another year or two. I don’t think he will ever be as good at driving as Prince but if he could learn his baby hook he would become a mismatch nightmare. Daye still has a big upside and lots of potential. With that being said I would much rather build a team around Stuckey or Jerebko.

Dan Feldman, PistonPowered

I nearly said Ben Wallace, which should say something about the sad state of this team. He’s 35 and only a year removed from serious injury. But he’s still productive and would instill an attitude I’d want my team to have.

But my answer is Will Bynum. He’s so productive, and I love how he improved from last year. Before his ankle injuries, Bynum had become a much better all-around player – not just a scorer. He’s still regaining his form, but it doesn’t look like his early-season play was an aberration.

He has a lot to prove, and he plays like it. There are varying opinions about whether clutch stats are relevant, and honestly, I have mixed feelings. But I can see Bynum plays without fear when the game is on the line, and I know I like that.

He also plays point guard, which might be the most important position in the NBA right now. (I’d still say center, but you can make the case).

A hidden Bynum bonus: because he hasn’t played much in the NBA, he’s a young 27.

Previous

• How good would the Pistons have been this season if they weren’t hit with so many injuries?

Like with the first question, please post your answer in the comments. I’d like this roundtable to involve everyone reading, too.

Richard Hamilton missed his first free throw of last night’s 97-91 loss to the Clippers. So, although Hamilton boasts the longest free throw-made streak of any NBA player this season, Joe Dumars’ team record is safe.

But I hope he matches Dumars in another way.

I hope Hamilton retires a Piston. (Have I mentioned that lately?)

Dumars played five seasons in Detroit after every other Bad Boy had left the team. He never seemed to completely fit with guys like Grant Hill, Otis Thorpe and Terry Mills. But I was just glad he was still playing for my favorite team

Dumars was a true professional and knew how to win. His influence never off paid quite like I hoped, and those teams never advanced to the second round of the playoffs. But I think they would’ve been more lost without Dumars.

So, back to Hamilton. He’s stuck on a team that traded his best friend, almost completely changed his supporting cast and can’t hold a candle to its predecessor just two years earlier.

But he still knows how to win.

Until the final 4:30 minutes of the fourth quarter, Hamilton had been having a so-so game. Then, he hit a 3-pointer to tie it. And on Detroit’s next possession, he hit one from the same spot. Three minutes later, he gave the Pistons the lead with yet another 3-pointer.

Then, with Detroit down by four with seven seconds left, Hamilton drew a foul on a long 3-pointer – and he nearly made that. But it rattled in-and-out, and Hamilton missed all three free throws, essentially ending the game.

From threatening a free-throw record to making just 2-of-8 from the line last night. I’m not sure Hamilton knows what hit him.

Just like this season.

More solid games from the old guard

Hamilton finished 21 points.

Tayshaun Prince had 17 points, 10 rebounds, four assists a block and a steal. His block with 14 seconds left reminded me of some other play he made once.

And Jason Maxiell had 14 points (7-of-9 shooting) and eight rebounds in 16 minutes off the bench.

If only a few of the new guys would offer more help…

How will Ben Gordon improve shooting woes?

Not to make excuses, but the the Pistons have four good guards. If Ben Gordon is struggling, they don’t have to play him. That has to frustrate Gordon, who doesn’t really have a chance to work his way out of this slump.

He was 0-for-4 last night, and he played just 19 minutes. From the Pistons’ standpoint as far as their chances of winning this game, 19 minutes make sense.

For Gordon – and the team’s long-term investment in him – it doesn’t.

I don’t want to force-feed him minutes he doesn’t deserve, but this isn’t healthy for the franchise’s long-term outlook.

Charlie Villanueva carving out role

In the last two games, the Pistons’ bench has been pretty active in cheering for the players on the court. In particular, Charlie Villanueva has looked enthusiastic.

I wish he was doing more on the court. But I guess I’m glad he’s not sulking.

Further reading

Kevin Arnovitz of ClipperBlog has an interesting recap that includes this nugget:

The Pistons actually shoot better from 16-23 feet (53.4 effective field goal percentage) than they do at the rim (42.9 effective field goal percentage)!

But Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince are playing like they’re on a mission to disprove those beliefs.

Hamilton has seemed genuinely happy to be with the Pistons since they fired Michael Curry. I questioned whether Prince was playing hard just to get a trade, but he has continued to play well since the deadline.

Both their numbers have been stellar the last four games.

• Hamilton: 30.5 points per game on 54.5-percent shooting.
• Prince: 15.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 3.8 assists and 1.3 blocks per game.

They might even be proving Dumars made the right call by keeping them around instead of Billups.

Before we go further, I want make clear that I’m not dealing with Dumars’ execution with the Billups trade and the subsequent cap space it created. I’m just talking about his decision to trade Billups instead of one of Detroit’s other core players.

The season before the trade, the Pistons lost in the Eastern Conference Finals for the third straight year. It seemed like a bit of a stretch they even made it that far again. The team was getting older, complacent and disinterested.

By this point, the Pistons had four key players: Billups, Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed Wallace. It made sense to break up that core, at minimum, to create a spark.

Let’s look at each of them to see why Billups was the one to go.

Rasheed Wallace

With his reputation and hard-headedness, Rasheed Wallace is virtually untradeable – at least for any real value. That’s why the Pistons got him so cheaply, and it’s why they had to hang onto him last year.

I have to believe Dumars thought Wallace would continue to decline. But what’s the point of trading him for pennies on the dollar? You trade for a Rasheed Wallace. You don’t trade a Rasheed Wallace.

So, the Pistons were stuck. They couldn’t trade him to improve their team. And if they kept him, he would likely struggle.

Stuck in that conundrum, I think the best option was to hold onto him and pray for the best. If a miracle happened and a light clicked in his head, you had an excellent player.

And if it didn’t, you ccould let him walk in the summer – which ended up happening.

Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton

Of the core group, Prince and Hamilton are the youngest. So, there’s a simple reason it made sense to keep them.

It’s easy to point to their production since Billups was traded and say they weren’t worth keeping around. But they’ve been faced with a slew of challenges:

• They played all of last year under Michael Curry, a failure as a head coach.
• They spent last year with a point guard, who was not only in his first season as a starter, is still working to be more than a shooting guard who brings the ball up the court.
• Last year, they shared the court with Allen Iverson, who completely disrupted the team’s chemistry.
• And they’ve been hampered with injuries this year.

So, I don’t think we’ve had a great look at Hamilton and Prince post-Billups. Yes, their last four games have been awesome. But I don’t think that’s a large enough sample size. So, I’m going to try to use a bigger sample, but still remove some of those mitigating factors.

So how have Prince and Hamilton done in:

• The two games after Billups was traded but before Iverson arrived
• The games last year after Richard Hamilton permanently returned to the starting lineup (excluding the final game of the season for Prince because he played just nine minutes in an effort to continue his streak of games played)
• The first game this season, when both were healthy
• The games since they returned from injury Dec. 27

Hamilton: 20.1 points, 5.4 assists and 3.3 rebounds per game.

Prince: 14 points, 4.8 rebounds and 2.6 assists per game.

Keep in mind that still includes games with Curry, Iverson, a young Stuckey and when they were getting acclimated after injuries. Those stats could improve.

Evidenced by the last four games, they are.

Chauncey Billups

That just leaves Billups.

Billups is two years older than Hamilton and four years older than Prince. His numbers had been dipping, and as a post-up player who thrive on getting to the free throw line, you had to wonder if his body was breaking down.

And, interestingly enough, he might have had the highest trade value on the Pistons. I have no idea what Detroit could’ve gotten for Hamilton or Prince, but the expiring contract of a high-end player is quite the get.

Allen Iverson averaged 22.8 points, 6.2 assists and 1.7 steals per game the season before the trade. Although there were signs his body was wearing down, too, there was a chance the Pistons were acquiring a heck of a player. And if they weren’t, they’d get a ton of cap space. Basically, Iverson represented two tries to make it work.

Another reason trading Billups made most sense: his replacement.

In Rodney Stuckey, the Pistons had a good, young alternative for Billups. What young player was going to replace Hamilton or Prince?

Don’t say Arron Afflalo. I wish the Pistons still had him, too. But he’s not nearly the player Stuckey is and likely won’t come close.

Afflalo’s PER this season is 11.3. His defensive rating (110) is ninth on the Nuggets. And J.R. Smith still plays more minutes per game than him.

And I’ve covered this many times, but the trade rejuvenated Billups. There was no way the Pistons would have had the same Billups Denver got.

Takeaway

If Hamilton and Prince continue to play well, especially if that’s due to Stuckey becoming a better point guard, you have to give Dumars more of a break on the Billups trade.

But this year’s edition didn’t do much more than make me feel bad about the Pistons. It marked two firsts for Detroit since Simmons began writing the column for ESPN in 2002.

They didn’t have any players who were at least honorable mention for the list of 40 players with the most trade value. And not only did they had a player on Simmons’ list of 25 worst contracts for the first time, they had four:

• 6. Ben Gordon
• 9. Richard Hamilton
• 15. Jason Maxiell
• 16. Charlie Villanueva

The Pistons barely avoided having Nazr Mohammed’s 10th worst contract in 2007. He was traded to Charlotte nine days before the column was published.

Here’s a look back the Pistons’ previous positing in Simmons’ rankings:

2009

Column

Honorable mention: Rodney Stuckey (explanation combined with Rudy Gay):

Either 1-2 or 2-1 for this year’s "Most Overrated Young Player" Award. Although Trent from Royal Oak, Mich., makes a good point: "Stuckey was drafted with the pick acquired from Orlando (aka the Darko pick) and was the sole reason for the Chauncey trade. He’s potential redemption for two horrific moves directly tied to Dumars. He ain’t going nowhere." Good point. I’d put him higher if he played defense.

Dec. 2007

Column

Honorable mention": Richard Hamilton (explanation combined with Richard Jefferson, list went to 50 this year):

Rip was intriguing because of his reasonable contract (three years, $32.6 million remaining); Jefferson would have been intriguing except for his contract (four years, $54.6 million remaining). By the way, I nominate "Rip" to replace "Rich," "Richie," "Dick" and "Dicky" as the new cool nickname for "Richard." If we called him "Rip Jefferson," wouldn’t Jefferson seem more imposing? Same for Rip Seymour, Rip Gere, Rip Hidalgo … really, everyone except exercise guru Rip Simmons.

44. Tayshaun Prince

It’s weird when anyone earning $39 million through 2011 can be deemed "cost effective," but when you’re paying that sum to an unselfish, playoff-proven, A-plus defender and all-around good guy who shoots 40-plus percent from long range, that’s good business. Especially when he’s only 27.

37. Rasheed Wallace (explanation combined with Marcus Camby)

Approaching their mid-30s, both possess higher than usual value because of their big-game experience, defensive prowess, basketball IQ, testicular fortitude and surprisingly appealing contracts. You can win with these guys and continue to win for the next three or four years; that’s more appealing than Gasol, who has never won anything. Anyway, Sheed gets the paper-thin edge only because of the inspiring way he reinvented "Jingle Bells", joining the Christmas Song Pantheon along with Band Aid’s "Do They Know It’s Christmas," Elvis’ "Blue Christmas" and the David Bowie/Bing Crosby duet of "Little Drummer Boy."

26. Chauncey Billups (explanation combined with Gilbert Arenas):

Here’s where you have to love the "Trade Value" game: Who turns down a Billups-Arenas swap, Wizards GM Ernie Grunfeld or Pistons GM Joe Dumars?

The answer? Both would turn it down even though it’s a fairly logical trade for both teams. Detroit increases its ceiling as a team (right now, it’s second round and out) and gets a blue-chip scorer and gate attraction to keep up with LeBron in the Central; Washington gets an unselfish winner who makes everyone else better and gives it stability for once. That’s a nice trade. In the end, Joe Dumars would flinch well before Ernie Grunfeld did — he’d worry about Gilbert’s impending free agency, he’d worry about going over the luxury tax and wrecking his salary structure this summer, and he’d definitely worry about Gilbert’s knee problems and the curious way the Wizards came together as a team as soon as Gilbert went away. Ernie would flinch only because of the age difference (four years) and the local ramifications of dealing the most popular Wizard/Bullet in 30 years. Either way, a fun argument.

July 2006

Column

40. Tayshaun Prince (explanation with Caron Butler):

Two playoff-proven guys with reasonable six-year extensions kicking in next season ($49.5 million for Prince, $48 million for Butler). That’s right, these guys will make 20 percent less than Nene through 2012. You figure it out.

33. Richard Hamilton

Now here’s a good contract for an All-Star: $40.6 million and an unlimited supply of schnozzaroo masks over the next four years.

25. Chauncey Billups

Can we still call him Mr. Big Shot when he’s playing for a 40-42 team next season? But you’re looking at the best dollar-for-dollar value for any veteran in the league — two years remaining at $13.1 million. Did I mention this is the same league that guaranteed Nene $60 million last week? I mentioned that, right?

(By the way, congrats to Joe Dumars for parlaying Ben Wallace, Carlos Arroyo and the No. 2 pick from a draft that featured LeBron, Wade, Bosh and ‘Melo into Nazr Mohammed and Orlando’s 2007 No. 1 pick. Well done.)

2005

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Honorable mention: Rasheed Wallace

The toughest omission on this year’s list. And yes, I still feel cheated that we never saw ‘Sheed hand his championship belt to Duncan last week and pull the "you’re all right, LaRusso, you’re all right" routine.

28. Richard Hamilton

I’m down with the Reggie Miller analogy here, right down to the goofy looks. Although Reggie was a little more valuable because he could shoot 3s. Then again, Reggie never won a ring.

26. Ben Wallace

This seems about right, although hearing announcers and writers constantly pimping him has become tiresome – he went from being wildly underrated to slightly overrated in the span of two seasons. If he’s so invaluable, then why did Detroit seem more effective in the Finals with McDyess and ‘Sheed playing together? More important, does anyone else keep waiting for Wallace to look into the camera, tilt his head, unleash one of those Eddie Murphy smiles and sing, "Unce … tice … fee times … a mady … "

18. Chauncey Billups

Before Game 7 of the Finals, everyone kept saying how Duncan had the most at stake … in retrospect, wasn’t it Billups? If he made a few big shots and the Pistons prevailed, he would have been included in every future discussion about clutch guards who elevated their play when it mattered, along with guys like Dennis Johnson, Clyde Frazier, Isiah Thomas and Sam Jones. And maybe there’s still time for that. But Chauncey has gotten it done enough times that another heroic Game 7 would have altered his place in history. Too bad.

2004

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Honorable mention: Rasheed Wallace

He gets a championship ring and a multi-year contract … so now what happens? Does anyone else keep hearing the chorus to Prince’s "Let’s Go Crazy"? Remember, we’re still only eight months away from the infamous "CTC" speech. I don’t trust him at all.

Honorable mention: Chauncey Billups

The latest beneficiary of L.A.’s spring-time policy of turning opposing point guards into Hall of Famers. Bottom line: He’s a 40-percent shooter playing for the perfect team. Good defender, decent ballhander, clutch shooter if he’s open. But if you think they wouldn’t have won the same title with Mike Bibby in Billups’s place, you’re crazy.

40. Darko Milicic

By trading him now, Joe Dumars would basically be admitting, "Yeah, we won the title, but I screwed up with that pick." And that’s not happening.

Then again, out of the next 39 guys on this list, none of them would ever, ever, EVER be offered straight-up for Darko, who capped off a memorable playoff run by getting infected earlobes from a bizarre piercing accident, then breaking his hand in garbage time of the clinching game. In the Pantheon of Unfortunate Playoff Performances, this was right up there with Curtis Jackson getting shot in the liquor store before Carver High won the city title. So I don’t know. Let’s stick him here to be safe.

(And yes, that’s two "White Shadow" references in one column! Memo to ESPN Classic: Start running the old episodes again. I’m getting the shakes.)

24. Richard Hamilton

Three months ago, he wouldn’t have made the list. Now he’s the next Reggie Miller — not someone who can carry an offense by himself, but someone who makes big shots and wears out opponents. He lost the name "Richard" for the much-tougher sounding "Rip." He’s even strange-looking like Reggie, one of the few guys who’s actually better off with the Broken Nose Mask. It’s been a breakout season all around.

(By the way, don’t we need to come up with a nickname for the Broken Nose Mask? What about the Septumator? Or the Schnozzaroo? More importantly, why are they such an afterthought? NBA players care so much about hair, tattoos, shoes … yet they happily slide on these ugly plastic masks for two straight months, no questions asked. Wouldn’t you think they would paint them like hockey goalie masks, or even go with the intimidating Hannibal Lecter-style mask for a big playoff game? We need to spruce up the Schnozzaroos.)

17. Ben Wallace

This seems about right.

(By the way, has Big Ben let go of the championship trophy yet? He’s like a dog with a new bone — during the post-Game 5 ceremonies, I kept waiting for him to start growling at teammates that came up to him. Can’t you picture him standing in a nightclub with Rip and Tayshaun, clinging to the trophy with one hand as the guys keep asking him, "Come on, let us hold it for a little while." And Wallace gruffly responds, "No." We should have a webcam on him at all times.)

2003

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30. Chauncey Billups

You can’t penalize him for the Nets series, playing on a bum ankle against the best point guard in 15 years. Judge him by all the clutch shots he drained from November to May, including those backbreakers in Game 6 of the Philly series. Only a handful of guys made as many big shots this season. Have I mentioned that Rick Pitino and Chris Wallace gave up on him after 50 games?

17. Ben Wallace

Can you win a title when someone who can’t score is one of your two best guys? Of course not. But if you already have a 50-win team, then you stumble into the No. 2 pick and have eight figures in cap space to play with … well, suddenly the Ben Wallace Era is looking better and better. Perfect situation for him right now. Especially if Darko is for real. Would you bet against a white guy named Darko? Me neither.

(Just out of curiosity, who blinks first if there was a "Wallace, Darko and Tayshaun for Shaq" trade on the table, Detroit or LA? Hmmmmm.)

2002

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16. Ben Wallace

That’s right, Ben Wallace … and no, I’m not kidding … he’s like a 21st century version of Dennis Rodman, only without the baggage … you think the Pistons are 44-29 right now simply because of Jerry Stackhouse? … I didn’t have the gonads to place Wallace higher than Chris Webber on this list, but believe me, I thought about it … and we haven’t even mentioned his hair yet … "Nobody is more underrated than Ben Wallace!" will be a running theme of the first few weeks of the NBA playoffs … just wait.

12. Jerry Stackhouse

Maybe the most surprising development of the season: Jerry Stackhouse becoming a cerebral player who makes his teammates better … frankly, I’m still stunned … even Hillary Swank making the leap from "90210" to "Academy Awards, Best Actress" wasn’t this shocking … there’s hope for Stephon Marbury yet.

Yes, Richard Hamilton almost cost the Pistons last night’s game. He had an offensive foul then fouled Manu Ginobili for an and-1 to let the Spurs reach overtime – before they lost, 101-99, to the Pistons.

But Hamilton deserves a break. He’s begun to play like the scorer the Pistons have relied on the past seven seasons. Just look at his lines for the last three games:

• Points: 36, 29 and 27.
• Free throws: 9-of-9, 10-of-10 and 9-of-9.
• Two pointers: 9-of-12, 8-of-19 and 9-of-14.

As I’ve said, I think the Pistons signed Ben Gordon because they believed he’s the type of player you don’t pass up under any circumstances. I imagine Joe Dumars envisioned a scenario where Hamilton and Gordon were both playing extremely well and one had to be moved – as opposed to the opposite problem that has plagued them this season of neither playing well.

Right now, it’s halfway fixed.

Ben Wallace’s mind games

Trailing by nine with 3:35 left in the fourth quarter, the Spurs began intentionally fouling Ben Wallace. They sent him to the line five straight possessions, and he made 4-of-10 free throws. San Antonio cut the deficit to four. Finally, Hamilton replaced Wallace.

To me, it’s a completely fair strategy. How is it different than trying to isolate an opponent’s weakest defensive player? Players don’t get a free pass at masking their deficiencies. It’s risky, but the Spurs had their backs against the wall and needed to take a chance.

But Wallace didn’t approve. From Chris Iott of MLive:

Wallace threw his headband to the floor as he made his way to the bench.
"It’s garbage," Wallace said when asked about the strategy.

Wallace was asked how he felt about Kuester showing confidence by leaving him in so long while the Spurs employed the strategy.

"That’s garbage, too," Wallace said, then quickly ended the interview.

Wallace’s free-throw percentage (.441) is the highest its been since the Pistons’ championship season. But he could shoot between 50 and 60 percent fairly easily.

It’s definitely a mental block, and his little pouting session shows that. It’s just strange to see from such an otherwise mentally strong player.

If the Pistons lost this game because of Wallace’s free-throw shooting, it wouldn’t have been a huge deal. They’re not going anywhere, anyway.

But if Wallace returns next season, and Detroit is in the playoff race, this problem could be more serious. At this point, though, I doubt an old dog will pickup a new trick.

Most-talented lineup

In last night’s Daily Dime Live, Kevin Arnovitz said:

As bad as Pistons are, you have to wonder…what’s the worst that would happen if they fielded a lineup of Stuckey-Gordon-Hamilton-Prince-Charlie V?
Throw Wallace or Maxiell in there against bigger teams, maybe.
Would they be *worse* than 19-35?

There are two big reasons the Pistons haven’t used this lineup:

1. Injuries.
2. Ben Wallace and Jonas Jerebko, Detroit’s best players, aren’t included.

But John Kuester has played 322 different lineups entering last night’s game, according to BasketballValue.com. The five players Arnovitz mentioned haven’t played a single minute together.

How many other teams haven’t put their five-most talented players on the floor together at all? If you count the Clippers, whose Blake Griffin has missed the entire season, my guess would be two.

If the Pistons really want to see what they have, that number needs to shrink to one.