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Caldwell-Pope’s career-night not enough in season-ending loss at Thunder

Detroit Pistons 111 FinalRecap | Box Score 112 Oklahoma City Thunder
Greg Monroe, PF 38 MIN | 9-19 FG | 4-9 FT | 8 REB | 9 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 4 TO | 22 PTS | -7The shooting percentage wasn’t pretty, but the rest of Monroe’s game screamed PAY ME tonight. He’s at his best when the offense is run through him, and from the third quarter on he controlled the game. The Pistons really had no point guard tonight, and Monroe showed how capable a playmaker he can be when he’s not suffocated in the paint by opposing defenses. It’s weird to think that this could be his last game in a Pistons uniform.

Kyle Singler, SF 38 MIN | 6-9 FG | 6-6 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 20 PTS | -7The good? Singler scored 20 points on just nine attempts.
The bad? Kevin Durant treated him like a folding chair in the fourth quarter.Singler has solidified the fact that he can be a very valuable role player off the bench with his play this season. He’s just so overwhelmed defensively as a big-minute starter.

Andre Drummond, C 28 MIN | 9-16 FG | 4-8 FT | 13 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 22 PTS | +9Detroit’s lead really didn’t start to dwindle until Drummond fouled out midway through the fourth quarter. Drummond was active all night with his usual array of put-backs and hustle plays. He opened the game with a few nice hook shots, too. If he can come back next season with one — that’s it — post move, watch out.

Brandon Jennings, PG 34 MIN | 2-9 FG | 2-3 FT | 4 REB | 7 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 8 TO | 6 PTS | -1The best point guard on the roster tonight was Peyton Siva, and it wasn’t close. Jennings’ hailmary shot at the buzzer may have been thisclose to dropping, but he played a completely discombobulated game otherwise. The seven assists is nice, but the eight turnovers and 2-for-9 shooting were not.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG 44 MIN | 11-19 FG | 3-5 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 30 PTS | +6Meet Kentavious Confidence-Pope. Tonight’s effort was easily the best game of Caldwell-Pope’s rookie year. You know how he’s usually timid and indecisive? He knew exactly what he wanted tonight, and looked confident on offense and defense where he gave Russell Westbrook fits. I can’t give him an A+ because he kind of forced that late Monroe turnover by not committing to his cut, but this was absolutely the best way for the rookie to enter his first offseason as a pro.

Tony Mitchell, PF 6 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | +4Mitchell and the other young players got a taste of first-half action tonight, but Mitchell looked a bit scrambled in his six minutes of work. He grabbed a board and moved his feet on defense, but offensively it seemed like he was just floating and setting random screens.

Jonas Jerebko, PF 25 MIN | 2-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 5 PTS | -5I have no idea why Jerebko would be dribbling the ball in the final seconds of a one-point game, but alas, he was dribbling and losing the ball late tonight. Jerebko may have his limitations, but he usually provides energy when he’s on the floor — it’s just he also still tries to do too much at times.

Luigi Datome, SF 9 MIN | 1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 2 PTS | +3When Datome hits the floor, chances are he’s hoisting a shot soon after he touches it. He didn’t shoot well tonight, but his effort was admirable and he crashed the boards very well. I’m really rooting for him to find his jumper and be a factor next season.

Peyton Siva, PG 18 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 4 PTS | -7Remember how I said Siva played a better game than Jennings tonight? He did, but it wasn’t by much. Siva is a caretaker when he’s on the floor. He’s not going to create a ton of easy looks, and he’ll occasionally make a shot, but he’s just kind of a guy who can bring the ball up court well. If he had a consistent 3-point shot… well, let’s talk when that’s a thing.

John Loyer
This is how Loyer should have been coaching games all month long. Give the young guys a chance when the game is in the balance? Check. Try to get Caldwell-Pope engaged by running plays for him and seeing what he’s capable of? Check. Play Monroe and Drummond together? Check. I know Loyer has been coaching to win — which makes perfect sense for an interim coach aspiring to eventually become full time head coach — but even through all the tanking and all the losing, this was a loss that actually hurt. It would have been great to play spoilers and bump the Thunder down to the No. 3 seed out West. It’d be fun to do so despite a huge night from Durant. It’d be fun to beat a title contender to end the year. But, instead, the team choked away a fourth-quarter lead and ended the season in the most 2013-14 Pistons way possible.Good riddance.

87 Comments

  • Apr 16, 201411:19 pm
    by CF4714

    Reply

    KCP’s grade should be an A+ no question, that supposed cut you mentioned, was cut off by the defense.

    • Apr 16, 201411:32 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      I beg to differ. If KCP had of kept going there was no reason he could’ve secured the ball and scored going straight to the hoop. I have always judged Monroe pretty hard but the play was there to be made.

  • Apr 16, 201411:21 pm
    by grizz

    Reply

    An amazing game  .. especially from KCP .. Weird how everyone has said play the young guns and run plays for them almost half the season .. but it only happened tonight on the last game of the year vs the powerhouse OKC .. Thanks for the great review of the game.

    • Apr 16, 201411:28 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      I’m starting to think if they played the young more then we would’ve definitely lost our pick. That spin move and dunk by KCP was sick. Did anyone else see it? I loved that he screamed after it. The kid’s court time has been totally mismanaged this season. He was handed minutes early on and then had then taken away towards the end. If anything it should’ve been the other way around.

      • Apr 17, 20141:46 am
        by JOB

        Reply

        yeah, just watched the league pass tape of the game… kcp was nasty on that dunk. i think he right hand slapped the backboard after throwing it down. wow. Rip w range and a dunk… watch out

  • Apr 16, 201411:24 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    Best game of the season in my opinion. This is what we should have seen all year. Drummond & Monroe treated like the franchise, KCP treated like a shooting guard, Singler getting shots.
    - Add a real SF: Ariza or rookie KJ McDaniels to play defense on the wings
    - add a defensive pg: Lowry or rookie Marcus Smart to play Pg defense.
    Then you have some potential.
     

  • Apr 16, 201411:27 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    Also this game was for the ppl saying Drummond & Monroe will never work. Monroe had 9 assists with room in the paint and shooters.
     

    • Apr 17, 20145:14 am
      by Ken

      Reply

      I don’t think I’ve ever read/heard anyone who thought Drummond/Monroe would never work offensively. They lead the league in points in the paint, which is the #1 stat used to measure a frontcourt offensively. It already works on that end, even with Smith at SF and no shooters around them. So obviously the more shooters around them, the even better they can be, offensively. 
       
      The questions about their fit have always been about defense though, and while Monroe flirted with a triple double tonight, he also almost gave up a triple double to Ibaka as well. I won’t fault him for that though, because Ibaka is an elite caliber PF and that’s what players of his caliber oo a nightly basis. As long as Monroe can match an opposing elite PF, and be a solid team defender, I can live with his poor individual defense. 
       
      I thought tonight he was very solid in his team defense, and if he can play at least that level of every night, the frontcourt pairing of Drummond and Monroe probably can work. That’s still a pretty big IF though to bet 15 mil/yr on, considering he has had decent games before as a team defender, but overall has been very poor in that department over his 4 year career. 
       
      The line of thinking has always been that he can never be a good team defender because he lacks the lateral athelticism needed to rotate and recover in time. However, games like tonight show he might be more athletically inclined, laterally, than he leads you to believe. Which if true means he just hasn’t been putting the effort in, and its not a physical disability. So I don’t know what to think. Did he just decide to put the effort in tonight on defense knowing it was the last game, and will go back to being a lazy defender next year once he gets paid? Can we really trust that he’s going to give this same effort on that end every night for the next 4 years when he didn’t the previous 4? 
       
      I don’t know if I can answer those questions, but definitely questions the Pistons need to get the answers to before deciding whether or not to give him that contract.

      • Apr 17, 20147:24 am
        by oats

        Reply

        I’d say that around half of the criticisms of them I’ve read have been focused on offense. The most common claim on this front is that Monroe can’t play PF because he can’t shoot, and as a result the lane will be too clogged for him and Drummond to both operate. I have no clue how you could have never seen this claim, but it is a pretty commonly held belief.
         
        As for the defense, I see a couple flaws with this argument. The first is that it is Monroe that has to guard PFs. Why not just put him on whoever the weaker scorer is among the other team’s front court players? That would make some sense to me. Drummond is more than capable of following around most PFs. I’ve seen some people suggest that moves Drummond away from the rim and will limit his rim protection. I think that could easily be made up for by the fact that Drummond is guarding the better offensive player so he can more directly neutralize the threat that player poses. On top of that, there isn’t really a lot of evidence that it is hard for PFs to act as a rim protector. Serge Ibaka is the league’s leading shot blocker, and he’s primarily a PF. The other way a Monroe and Drummond front court could work is if Drummond can approach a Dwight Howard type of impact defensively. The Magic were a top ranked defense with Howard and a bunch of bad defenders in the starting lineup. I’d hesitate to expect Drummond to hit quite the same highs as Howard defensively, but if he gets reasonably close then he could easily cover for Monroe’s limitations. Drummond is definitely a long ways from being that kind of force on defense, but he does project as pretty likely to get there.
         
        As for Monroe’s athleticism, I do think his lateral quickness is a problem. I also think he has really poor defensive instincts, and as a result he usually reacts slowly. This makes his lateral quickness look even worse than it already is. Every once in awhile he actually seems to anticipate things properly and he looks a bit better. I’d say that is a sign that he could be a decent defender if he was a smarter defender. I have no idea if he will ever really get good at reading the game on that side of the ball, but I don’t think he’s been particularly well coached either. Take from that what you will.

        • Apr 17, 20148:53 am
          by JOB

          Reply

          i agree Oats, if you also felt/wondered why Monroe didn’t get the Perkins/Nick Col assignment on D a bit more. Also, i have to say that Monroe let a couple confident looking Js go from his high lane catches. He will shut me up quick if starts hitting even 3 of 7 of those early next season.
          I really liked what i saw from BJ to him in multiple bring up sets. I know Monroe got a lot of dimes out of that package, but often it was BJ who shifted the defense before passing back/over to Monroe who had a half second of swiveling OKC players to make a first dribble or get a clean passing lane look from the top.

        • Apr 18, 20142:21 am
          by Ken

          Reply

          I’ve thought of cross-matching them defensively before too. The problem is Monroe can’t protect the paint by himself. So what would happen is Drummond ends up near the perimeter guarding a PF, and when our guards get beat off the dribble the last line of defense is Monroe. Which you might as well just have no one there.
           
          I agree that Drummond can guard PFs though, and that versatility is something they SHOULD be able to take advantage of, allowing us to switch anything up front. However, Monroe is preventing is from ever doing that for the reason mentioned above. That’s why having another athletic shot-blocker next to Drummond would be better than Monroe. Which is why Smith makes more sense to some. It would make us a much more versatile defense and allow us to make full use of Drummond’s athleticism, instead of just relegating him to the paint 24/7 because Monroe can’t protect the paint if Dre leaves. That’s what made Ben/Sheed so great. Both could guard inside/out and interchange without worrying about the other leaving the paint exposed.
           
          While Smith is a better fit defensively, I don’t think he’s the ideal fit anymore than Monroe is overall. Personally I think Ibaka would be a great fit next to Dre, and would try to do a S&T for him. I think Monroe is exactly what OKC needs too. They only thing they don’t have is a low post scoring big man. I think it would be a win-win for both teams. Then we can trade Smith or bring him off the bench

          • Apr 18, 20143:15 am
            by oats

            Yeah, I agree with that for the most part. I think Drummond can still protect the rim pretty well at PF though, largely because the number of perimeter oriented big men is pretty badly exaggerated. We’re talking maybe 5 guys that have a 3 point shot and are actually good enough players for teams to care. The number of guys with a mid range shot is a bit higher, but I don’t mind just letting Drummond cheat off those guys to keep him in position to give help at the rim. Not many teams are going to win if they are relying too much on mid range shooting anyways.
             
            I’d love to have someone like Ibaka though, but I can’t see OKC doing that. There is virtually no chance of Perkins staying on the team after this next season, and I can’t see them deciding to use Adams as their only rim protector. I think Ibaka is very much a key to their long term plans.

      • Apr 17, 20149:18 am
        by bonerici

        Reply

        all year I have read “Greg Monroe is a true center not a power forward”
         
        All year.

        • Apr 18, 20142:08 am
          by Ken

          Reply

          That’s because he IS a Center, not a PF. That doesn’t mean you can’t still put up points with a guy playing out of position. It also doesn’t mean that you can win playing like that. You can start two SGs in your backcourt and lead the league in perimeter scoring too, but you probably won’t win much with no PG to run your offense. Likewise you probably won’t win much with a PF who can’t play defense.
           
          Monroe isn’t a “true” Center either. A true Center can protect his paint on defense. Monroe is a one-way Center.

  • Apr 16, 201411:36 pm
    by Bandon Knight

    Reply

    Brandon Knight finished the season with the Bucks averaging: 
    18 points 5 assists 3.5 rebounds
    31 points today! 
    five 30+ points games
    twenty eight 20+ points games
    Last 5 months he is averaging 19 points a game
    anyone predicted this? I know Dan, Patrick and Tim didn’t! 
    My next season prediction for him:
    20+/6+/3+
    he will only get better!
    and for the Pistons, they will only regret it more and more!
    One more time sorry >>> F U Dumars! 
     
     

    • Apr 16, 201411:37 pm
      by Bandon Knight

      Reply

      @gmehl this is for you to read :PP

      • Apr 16, 201411:54 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        First things first… you do realize you spelt your handle ‘Bandon Knight’ right?
         
        Secondly I did say to you a while back that I regret the Knight for Jennings swap. The difference between you and me plus every other piston fan on the planet is we’ve let go of it. Knight is gone and I think you just have to man up and let go of him cause he ain’t coming back. The way you harp on about him it’s like you have a man crush on him. I mean that is unless your are actually female which if that is true then I apologize to you now. I mean hey if your a dude and you have the hots for BK7 that is cool too but  I’m sure that I speak for all of us here at pistonpowered that we’re just sick of hearing your BK7 spiel after every game he puts up decent numbers.
         
        Finally I will start missing Knight when he is getting decent numbers and his team is winning but until then I really don’t think either team wins that trade once Knight gets paid something close to what Jennings just got.

    • Apr 16, 201411:40 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      I will always wonder what this season might’ve been without that disastrous Brandon for Brandon swap.

      • Apr 16, 201411:51 pm
        by Bandon Knight

        Reply

        Dude, obviously much better! Last year we had less talent and we got the same amount of wins! 

    • Apr 16, 201411:47 pm
      by Bandon Knight

      Reply

      Oh and also can someone explain to me why Damian Lillard is considered a star and Brandon Knight is not!!!! 
      Per 36 minutes…They are averaging similar numbers!!
      Oh and Lillard is one year older than Knight!!
       

      • Apr 16, 201411:58 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        The reason would be:
        Portland 53-28 + playoffs
        Milwaukee 15-67 + no playoffs
         
        I don’t expect you to grasp it but maybe if you read it over and over then you will finally see it.

        • Apr 17, 201412:04 am
          by Bandon Knight

          Reply

          Come on man I expected a better response from you! Really? 
          Your comparing Portland’s talents against Milwaukee’s talent!
          I am going to just act like I never saw that reply! 
          Try again! 
           

          • Apr 17, 201412:22 am
            by gmehl

            Lillard 9.5 Win Shares
            Knight 2.5 Win Shares
             
            If you switched the 2 guys around then the Bucks would’ve been a way better team and the Blazers would’ve struggled to make the playoffs. That is fact!

          • Apr 17, 20141:32 am
            by oats

            @ BK. Let’s start with the obvious one, namely gmehl’s original response. That absolutely matters. Brandon Knight is a classic good stats on a bad team guy. He scores a lot because even bad teams score points, and he gets assists by virtue of being designated as the primary ball handler. Yeah, the fact that his team is terrible is a big part of why Knight is not regarded as a star.
             
            Now let’s look at the stats. Let’s start with the fact that they really aren’t the same. There actually is a difference between 20.8 points per 36 and 19.2. He also gets those points while taking slightly fewer shots. Lillard is an elite 3 point shooter who hit 39% of his 3s this year, while Knight hit only 32%. That’s why Lillard had a true shooting percentage of .567 versus Knight’s .519. That’s the difference between an elite shooter and an average efficiency shooter. Lillard’s not a great passer, but he is still better than Knight. More assists and fewer steals on a per minute basis. Lillard has an assist to turnover ratio of 2.35 versus Knight’s 1.88. That is a big deal.
             
            Add all of that up, and Lillard is a good starter. He may be a bit overrated since he’s not a good defensive player, but he’s roughly an All Star caliber player. Knight comes out as a guy you don’t particularly want to start at PG because he’s only an average shooter and defender as well as a bad passer. He’s good enough to start at SG with those numbers, but his defense at that position isn’t as good as at PG. That makes him into more of a 6th man in my mind. He’d be a 6th man of the year candidate if he was put in that role, but that is still pretty far from where Lillard is as a player.

          • Apr 17, 20147:08 am
            by Huddy

            To go off what oats said, pretty much everyone in the NBA that takes as many shots as Knight…scores as much or more than him.  There are very likely many guys that if given that many shots would do it as well.  Just looking at ppg is meaningless.  If you asked anyone of they thought he could score what he does on the shots he does they would agree, but he doesn’t do it particularly efficiently and his assist numbers are not good for a facilitator on an offense.

          • Apr 17, 20147:42 am
            by hoophabit

            This does not surprise me.  You can’t tell some people anything.  Knight = Lillard?  Please!

    • Apr 17, 201412:06 am
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      Oooops the name. 
      Brandon Knight**

    • Apr 17, 201412:26 am
      by JOB

      Reply

      i like BK, but he’s a poor man’s Stuckey. And! i like stuckey, but i’ll be shocked if he gets a 3/1 a/t ratio for a season. Although i agree that Lil is overrated. He went nuts on 3s for a month to push the season avg to close to 40, but doesn’t know how to pass yet at all.

    • Apr 17, 20145:28 am
      by Ken

      Reply

      Didn’t Knight have all those same type of games and numbers last year too though? I remember he would occasionally put up 30 pt games, but overall he just couldnt run an offense. So they tried him at SG and he couldn’t shoot either, so they traded him.
       
      Also, he avg 4 asts and 4 rebounds last year, to go with 13 pts, so all he really improved at is his scoring. He still can’t run an offense, as evident by the Bucks having the worst record in the league, and while his scoring is up his 3pt shooting got worse. So he still can’t shoot well enough to play SG either. 
       
      Thus what did we really trade that we didn’t already know that we didn’t need?
       
      I like Knight as player off the bench for a playoff team, but I still don’t think he’s a starting guard, and he just didn’t fit here so I have regrets about that trade.
       
      I’ll buy the argument that maybe we could’ve gotten something better than Jennings for him though. Trading Knight for Jennings is really moot to me, because neither fit here, so what difference does it really make? But I do wonder what kind of market there was for Knight and did Joe pass on some better offers of players that would’ve fit, just for Jennings? If so, that would make me mad over the trade. We probably won’t know for a while though, if ever. So I just say whatever. It looks like we might have an even better SG in KCP than Knight would’ve been at that position (being undersized) and we can draft a better PG this year with the 8th pick. So we’ll be fine.
       
       
       
       

      • Apr 17, 20145:30 am
        by Ken

        Reply

        so I have no regrets about that trade.
         
        edit*

        • Apr 17, 20147:30 am
          by oats

          Reply

          I regret the trade because it included Khris Middleton. Detroit could really use a guy that can hit 40% of his 3s. Knight for Jennings is pretty close to a wash for me. Knight and Middleton for Jennings is a loser though.

        • Apr 17, 20149:00 am
          by JOB

          Reply

          completely NO regrets. BJs assists vs TOs are rare, Middleton has some good FG% potential (particularly for a wing), but if Knight were our PG vs OKC? Or Stuckey? sure they would have only 4 to’s and more FGs, but Monroe, Drum, and KCP would’ve had 8 points less and the game wouldve been a blowout. As much as anything BJ looks like he needs to start jogging in the offseason bc his 3rd quarter speed w the dribble was far less than the in the first.

          • Apr 17, 201410:42 am
            by JYD for Life

            wow…I can’t imagine any situation where this team is better with Jennings than Knight.  Now Knight’s not fantastic, but Jennings is horrific.  
            Get over his assist/turnover ratio, JOB.  He sucks.  
             
             

          • Apr 17, 201410:44 am
            by JYD for Life

            His sweet idea of passing to Jonas to close out that game was fantastic too…Not a leader and a horrible decision-maker. 
             
            He also likes to spend his down time at the club instead of the gym or studying film…but that stuff doesn’t matter.  

          • Apr 17, 20143:35 pm
            by JOB

            JYD: you hate BJ. Obviously. I don’t love the guy, but if the choices for last nights game are Siva, Knight, Chalmers or BJ and you think those other 3 would’ve done anything (well we know Siva did nothing) against OKC that would have net improved that outcome, i absolutely disagree.

    • Apr 17, 20145:53 am
      by MrHappyMushroom

      Reply

      Yeah, ya see, the thing is this…..
       
      Plain ole PPG isn’t the greatest indicator of how good a player is.  Josh Smith led the Piston’s in PPG this year. Thus, he was the team’s best offensive player?  According to every statistical metric (and what we all saw this year), he was one of the league’s worst, most damaging offensive presences.
       
      I’m sure there’s problems with both metrics, but WS/48 has him at .055, which posits him as a clearly below average player.  WP/48 puts Knight at .01, which is a very poor player.  Yes, he scored 18 PPG, but he did so on 16.5 shots per game and when you add in his high turnover rate and acknowledge that free throws generally are, in effect, shots, he was not very effective in terms of what happens per time he finished a possession.  Part of his 18 PPG is that he plays on the worst team in the NBA and somebody has to throw the ball at the basket.
       
      All in all, it’s okay to argue that he was better this year and could serve a purpose as a 7th or 8th man on a team.  But nothing we’ve seen suggests that the Pistons will regret not having Brandon Knight as its point guard for the next half-dozen years. 

    • Apr 17, 20148:51 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Credit where it’s due:
      I expected Knight to improve offensively this season and he has, but significantly more than I would have anticipated. His usage went up significantly and yet he improved in just about every facet that usually declines as a result. His ts% went up more than a percentage point (still bad, but impressive when you consider how much his usage climbed). His assist rate also soared. And his turnover rate dropped so much that in spite of playing more minutes per game and handling the ball more frequently, his total turnovers per game still dipped slightly.

      Knight went from the worst starting PG in the league offensively to one that is merely below average. That’s really impressive and he is being undersold for it. Unfortunately, his defense regressed a lot, probably because he was focusing so much and expending so much energy on offense. This season, I would grade him, like many PGs, as a slight liability on that end. He is probably an average PG defensively.

      In retrospect, I agree that the Jennings trade didn’t work out well for the Pistons. It wasn’t a major loss, but a slight one. Yet another small feather in the Dumars cap of shame.

  • Apr 16, 201411:38 pm
    by Andy

    Reply

    Monroe LOST THE GAME.  If he’s the starting PF we have one of the worse starting PF’s in the league. At you guys blind??? He gets garbage rebounds and gets bullies by guys half his size. The Detroit Pistons don’t have finesse, soft starting PF’s. He epitomizes the Pistons of the last few years.

    • Apr 17, 20141:50 am
      by oats

      Reply

      If Monroe wasn’t a good rebounder then his numbers should have fallen off a cliff by playing with both Drummond and Smith. In actuality there was very little change from last year to this one. I don’t care if you think that they are “garbage rebounds”, whatever the hell that even means. He is still getting rebounds and they still have value, so why should it matter if they are garbage rebounds?

      • Apr 17, 20149:17 am
        by Andy

        Reply

        By garbage rebounds I mean grabbing rebounds that bounce right to him or ones where it’s him and a 6’4″ guy going for it. He’s soft and he’s mediocre at best. I mean you seriously don’t think that Monroe gets outplayed by the opposing power forward almost nightly? He disappears in big situations time and time again.
        We need a defensive oriented power forward to compliment Drummond who can shoot a little bit: Taj Gibson, David West, Kevin Garnett … that type of player.
        Monroe is a much less effective Pau Gasol, and I am comparing him to present-day Pau Gasol. His numbers are inflated because we suck. If he was as good as he’s made out to be, we would be in the playoffs, regardless of the lack of shooting. We would be in there out of defensive presence in the inside…except that Monroe can’t guard anyone. There’s better defensive big men in college.

        • Apr 17, 20149:20 am
          by Andy

          Reply

          Watch the games, don’t just read the stat lines.

          • Apr 17, 20146:39 pm
            by oats

            I hate these types of responses. Why do some people think that anyone who disagrees with them does not watch the games? It’s a bullshit way of trying to invalidate someone’s opinion just because it doesn’t mesh with the way you see the game. It’s either a sign of ignorance or an unwillingness to engage an argument in a productive manner. 

        • Apr 17, 20149:42 am
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          Hey, if Monroe is that good at positioning himself so that all those rebounds bounce right to him with nobody more than 6’4″ to try to beat him for the ball, I’ll take that. I disagree with you, but you are describing Tim Duncan/Kevin Love style rebounding. They rarely are working hard to get boards but rather working smart. If Monroe can see the court and predict the ball well enough to position himself for nine easy boards per game, we should all be lauding him. That would be really, really impressive.

          • Apr 17, 201412:53 pm
            by Andy

            Fair enough. Wonderful, fantastic 9 rebounds, absolutely brilliant…..but I’ll take a guy who can guard someone over a guy who gets the chess master 9 rebounds any day. Are we forgetting the fact that he threw the ball the away twice when it counted most and then went and got dunked on instead of at least fouling hard and making them earn it at the line by a guy half his weight?
            And isn’t like it’s the first, second, third, fourth etc. time we’ve seen Monroe do this at the end of the game.
            All that being said, I would gladly keep him over Smith..but I don’t think we’ll be that lucky.

  • Apr 16, 201411:41 pm
    by Andy

    Reply

    Throwing the ball away and getting lucky sometimes to boost assist numbers, crying for fouls, getting dunked on.. that’s his game.

    • Apr 17, 201412:20 am
      by JOB

      Reply

      i’m into the 2nd quarter of the game… i hope BJ does some horrible sh!t later, bc he just shredded OKC in the first quarter. Him with the quick dribble up, plus monroe staying top key === best best O launch sequences. If monroe gets a reasonable jumper from that ft line to 3 area, we will be set.

      • Apr 17, 201412:50 am
        by Parsons

        Reply

        Do you think Jennings can play Shortstop? Since this basketball thing isn’t really working out and Tigers are still looking for a Shortstop. Think he can hit .280? Aw but his defense would be worse than Gonzalez and Romine’s. Who knows maybe he can stop a baseball better than a PG. His attention span might be a little dangerous though. I don’t recommend falling asleep on defense at a baseball game. Ouch.

        • Apr 17, 20141:57 am
          by JOB

          Reply

          watch where jennings get w his po’s in the first quarter. i don’t think people realize the wrinkles he adds on his dribble and ‘first pass’. look at KCPs first miss from Siva’s garbage back pass vs BJ’s drop off earlier. Seriously chart out where he gets on the floor before his give ups. Siva got two layups in this game i give him credit for, but couldn’t stop simple rebounds going to Reggie J throughout the game (that might as well be TOs) and couldn’t manage anything but top arc pass arounds on most sets. If you don’t understand that PGs bring the ball up everytime, you don’t understand. BJ can get to sideline areas and to the top of the FT area fairly well to at least slightly make D’s swivle their heads. Siva better than Jennings? When? I’ve got the tape… when? Show me the Siva pass or drop off that was something. BJ had many. Our last full 24 po brandon ran perfectly from clock mgmt to the final layoff to a hot KCP… who bricked the shot which turned into an instant transition bucket… but that play was run perfect by BJ and not many single players could make the brick rebound pay that quickly, but Durant did.

          • Apr 17, 20142:10 am
            by oats

            Jennings shot 2-9 from the field and had 8 turnovers. He brought a few more positives with his passing, but way more negatives. Siva won the battle for best Piston’s PG in this game by default.

      • Apr 17, 20145:35 am
        by Ken

        Reply

        dude, I’m not a Jennings hater at all, but I dont know how you can say he was playing good offensively at any point in that game. He was turning it over every other possession, and they were all unforced, wild plays. Even though he ONLY finished with 8 TOs, he caused a bunch more that his teammates probably got credit for, but they were his fault. 
         
        I think Jennings is a gifted playmaker and would make a really good 6th man off our bench. Tonight wasn’t one of his nights though.

        • Apr 17, 201410:47 am
          by JYD for Life

          Reply

          what’s the term??? Trolling?  
           
          Or he just really has no clue what good basketball is…

          • Apr 17, 201412:52 pm
            by JOB

            -7 in 18 mins it says next to Siva right? it wasn’t random… awful.

          • Apr 17, 20146:46 pm
            by oats

            You know, individual plus minus doesn’t always tell you much of anything about a player over the course of a season. In the course of 18 minutes of a game it is pretty much never meaningful.

          • Apr 17, 20148:36 pm
            by JOB

            oats, i respect your argument meths in general, and agree w the +/- point in premise, but Siva earned that in this game imo. I wouldn’t quote it if i thought otherwise. And since the page is deep enough into the game, didn’t BJ’s FGA’s include 1 end of half 3 heave and the end of game heave, plus a strong move layup that rolled out? That layup sits, and he doesn’t try the desperation 3s and he’s played a VERY modest shooting game. Yes he had some bad (particularly 2nd half) turnovers, i saw them all, but he was under pressure to put some kind of dynamic into the start of our offensive sets. The thunder don’t make it easy to do and frankly had just two fewer TOs than our team even though they have several more players to share the burden. Siva’s only foray into the paint with the intention to distribute, i remember, was some horrible leaping out of bounds under the hoop back pass to 3 thunder players. He just acted as stop gap after that.

          • Apr 17, 201411:56 pm
            by oats

            I agree that Siva was just a stop gap, and I’d argue that he was a net a negative on the court. I just thought the turnovers made Jennings into an even bigger negative.

    • Apr 17, 201412:21 am
      by Parsons

      Reply

      Monroe or Jennings?

  • Apr 17, 201412:29 am
    by Ven

    Reply

    Actually KCP was cut off by the defense . Even Moose said it was his fault saying “My Bad”.

  • Apr 17, 201412:38 am
    by Parsons

    Reply

    Holy crap you mean if they include KCP in the offence he can score!!! Who knew. Can someone explain to me why Loyer was even an assistant. The guy is clueless. I’m kind of working under the assumption that to be an assistant you should know something about being a head coach. Anything at all. This was just another lost season to me. If you employ a couple idiots to coach young players don’t be surprised when none of them get any better. We did find out few things like Jennings sucks at basketball, Monroe isn’t a PF, and putting Smith at SF is like falling in active volcano and wondering why its so hot. We should have known all this already though. Jennings sucked in Milwaukee for 5 years why is it such a shock he sucked here? Did Dumars not watch any tape on him? Do we not have scouts? Smith too did we not scout him? Does it really take a genius to figure out if the pieces don’t fit and your coach is a moran the team won’t do well? On the plus side it should be an interesting offseason.

    • Apr 17, 20145:59 am
      by MrHappyMushroom

      Reply

      If this were DBB, I’d include a photo of Joanie Cunningham right here! :-)
      “if the pieces don’t fit and your coach is a moran…”
       

      • Apr 17, 20147:39 am
        by oats

        Reply

        And I’d rec both posts. Not every thread gets a Happy Days reference.

    • Apr 17, 201410:51 am
      by JYD for Life

      Reply

      KCP is solid…I’ve been saying it all year…They relegated him to a stick figure-type status early in the season.  It was like he had to pass the ball as soon as it came to him.  
       
      Never let him shoot, never ran a pin-down to free him up…
       
      I’m not saying one game means he’s a stud, but he’s a capable starting SG.  The range will come with another summer working with Arnie.  

      • Apr 17, 20146:59 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        I’d go further and say that one game doesn’t mean he’s a solid starter. It is an encouraging sign that he might be a starter some day, and maybe pretty soon, but he has a really long ways to go to prove this was more than just a one game blip. Sometimes pretty mediocre players just have randomly good games. That really shouldn’t change their projection that much. If it does then Jennings is long overdue for his All Star appearnce. He put up a 32 and 9 in his 6th game of his career, and followed that up with a 55 and 5. Turns out he’s still a pretty low end starter.

        • Apr 18, 201412:15 am
          by JYD for Life

          Reply

          I’m not basing that off of one game…they were close to a .500 team with him starting and contributing very little offensively.   
           

          • Apr 18, 201412:57 am
            by oats

            He started 41 games this year. He put up 8 points a game and shot 41% from the field and 34% from 3 as a starter. That’s a very average rookie, and it ignores the fact that he was much worse when coming off the bench. His actual season averages of 6 points, 40% from the field, and 32% from 3 are not that encouraging. It’s not uncommon for guys to struggle with their shot when they first hit the league, but it’s also not uncommon for guys who shoot like that as rookies to never become good shooters. He could end up as a good starter, or he could be a back of the rotation guy. That’s the current range for his projections.

  • Apr 17, 201412:47 am
    by Ra

    Reply

    An entire summer of working on their games, and Drummond and KCP can come back real nice.  We may need them to, since our lottery pick may still go to Charlotte.

  • Apr 17, 201412:58 am
    by Oracle

    Reply

    10% chance at a top three pick. 72% chance at keeping the 8th. ~17% chance we get jumped by a team behind us for a top three pick, and are forced to give up our pick to Charlotte. 

    • Apr 17, 20141:10 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      It’s too bad that Sacramento lost to the Phoenix subs. The Pistons had a real shot at better odds.

      • Apr 17, 20147:55 am
        by hoophabit

        Reply

        Sacremento wasn’t going to win that game.  They knew what was at stake.  Sacremento knows how to tank, as they have amply demonstrated again this year.

      • Apr 17, 201410:21 am
        by Oracle

        Reply

        I didn’t run the math on what sharing the 7/8 odds would do to keeping/losing the pick, but the odds of jumping into the top three go up to 12.5% if Sacramento had won.

        • Apr 17, 201412:07 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          If Sacramento beat Phoenix, there would be a coin toss for which team is nominally 7th and which is nominally 8th. If Sacramento wins the coin toss, the odds of the Pistons losing the pick would not have changed any. Some of the odds of staying at 8 would just be transferred to leaping into the top 3. But if Detroit had won the coin toss, they would be almost a sure thing to keep their pick (~98%) because they’d have to be leapfrogged by two teams.

  • Apr 17, 20148:40 am
    by OOtis

    Reply

    I can’t believe half these posts were about Brandon Knight lol.
     
    Bye Bye Monroe – I hope this game was a showcase for another team!  Get us a wing in return, big fella.
     
    Let’s hit the lottery!

  • Apr 17, 201411:11 am
    by Corey

    Reply

    Been thinking KCP could be a starting-quality SG by next season all year. Obviously he won’t be this good every game, but it’s nice to see him prove he can do it. Maybe that really IS one less position to worry about this off-season.
    Just PG and SF to fix…
     

  • Apr 17, 201412:06 pm
    by AYC

    Reply

    I know I just went at it with all you guys here, but that was a really nice KCP write-up.  Cheers!

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    by www.youtube.com

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    by hopefully

    Reply

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  • Apr 17, 20146:37 pm
    by hirobeats

    Reply

    Ben McLemore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owQqGDfK37Y
    KCP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqG26vRE2OQ
    Maybe I am being a homer. But off of these two games as a sample size, I thought KCP looked more impressive, a bit more polished. I’m less upset about Ben not falling to us at 8. (I was never on the Trey Burke train, I’m not sold on him as a pro, and his rookie season hasn’t been overly impressive, but that’s a different conversation.
    I really am starting to like KCP a lot as a potential starting 2 guard. If he has a ceiling of a slightly more athletic Rip Hamilton with range, I’d be fine with that. I just don’t wanna get hurt again like I did with BK7 lmao

  • Apr 18, 20146:57 am
    by #Andrew Wiggins

    Reply

    We’re gona win the lottery. Everything has gone bad this season. But on the bright side, Dumars is gone, new coach coming in, we have higher then a 80 % chance of keeping our pick. Maybe we get bumped up into the top 3? Hope for the best. That’s all we can do anyways.

  • Apr 18, 20146:59 am
    by #Andrew Wiggins

    Reply

    Also high chance for Stuckey, CV to be out of Detroit FINALLY.
    If we add Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith to that list…I think Pistons fans would be happy. 

  • Apr 21, 201412:17 pm
    by JamesJones_Det

    Reply

    I can only recall 3 games where Pope and Singler were on the floor together for any significant amount of time but all three games I remember them being competitive and Monroe and Durmmond having decent games when the combo was on the floor.  I’m really surprised this lineup wasn’t tried more (or maybe i’m not) but it seemed to have something even with the small amount of samples.
     
    I could just be remembering things the way I want, I will dig through and post some stats when I get a chance.

    • Apr 21, 20141:35 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Those two played 500 minutes together on the season. The Pistons tended to play better than typical defense with the two. Their offense was characterized by more shooting than normal, but hitting at about the same rate for an overall typical offensive output. Apart from that, nothing noteworthy.

      We’re dealing with small sample sizes here but the only line-ups with which those two played many minutes at all were alongside Jennings and two of the three bigs. Monroe/Smith and Monroe/Drummond alongside Jennings/KCP/Singler were two of the most effective lineups the Pistons played all year. Drummond/Smith with those three was arguably the absolute worst.

      Caldwell-Pope and Singler could work well together. They probably should have played more together. But right now, both are below average starters. So I hope the Pistons will be acquiring at least one new wing for next year.

      • Apr 21, 20142:35 pm
        by JamesJones_Det

        Reply

        thx for the stat look up.  I wanted to but didn’t have time when I reading through the article earlier.
         
        Agreed 100% on Pope & Singler being below avg starters for sure.  I hope we can get two solid wings somehow but my fear is no one will have the guts to sit one of the three bigs and let one come off the bench (assuming we resign Monroe).  I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the next coach and/or GM won’t be stuck on the big 3 starting lineup.

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    Scott Tucker

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