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Bulls erase 18 point deficit and overcome Drummond’s beastliness

Detroit Pistons 98 FinalRecap | Box Score 106 Chicago Bulls
Greg Monroe, PF Shot Chart 36 MIN | 3-9 FG | 1-4 FT | 7 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 7 PTS | -6I like to compare Monroe to Boozer, but tonight the latter soundly thumped the former on both ends of the floor. Monroe was a big part of the reason the Bulls were able to come back in this one,

Kyle Singler, SF Shot Chart 43 MIN | 3-10 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 8 PTS | -2Singler had a couple pretty offensive rebounds in traffic. But apart from that, he was fairly worthless. Why is a limited-upside role player getting big minutes in meaningless games at the end of a lost season?

Andre Drummond, C Shot Chart 42 MIN | 11-17 FG | 4-9 FT | 26 REB | 0 AST | 3 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 26 PTS | +1Drummond wasn’t as good as his numbers, but that’s not taking much away from him. 26 and 26 is absolutely ridiculous. I really hope the Pistons soon manage to put a good team around him. Players who have managed a 25 and 25 game have generally turned out pretty well..

Brandon Jennings, PG Shot Chart 34 MIN | 7-17 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 3 TO | 17 PTS | -2As per normal, Jennings’ shooting was poor. But he wasn’t passing well either. On the plus side, he covered Hinrich well.

Rodney Stuckey, SG Shot Chart 32 MIN | 10-18 FG | 2-4 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 22 PTS | -5Besides Drummond, Stuckey was the primary reason for the Pistons’ big third quarter lead. But it’s a rare night when Stuckey can carry the team to a win.

Jonas Jerebko, PF Shot Chart 18 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 3 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 3 PTS | -11Jerebko was still hustling hard. But his energy and movement mostly looked undirected and useless in this one.

Peyton Siva, PG Shot Chart 17 MIN | 4-7 FG | 2-2 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 12 PTS | -6Siva had his best offensive and statistical game of his NBA career. But his defense was pretty weak. Augustin burned him time and again. When you can’t check Augustin, that’s a problem.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG Shot Chart 19 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 3 PTS | -9KCP rarely looks good these days, but he should still be seeing more minutes.

John Loyer
Siva and KCP got a few more minutes than they normally have of late. So I’m not going to flunk Loyer. But his rotations still suck and being unable to hold on to an 18 point second half lead is pretty pathetic.

35 Comments

  • Apr 12, 20146:00 am
    by James

    Reply

    Wait, let me guess, don’t worry about Monroe, its just another meaningless game. 

    • Apr 12, 201410:26 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      More like don’t worry about one game either way. If, based on Monroe’s body of work, you conclude he s useless, you still should. If, based on the same, you conclude he is valuable, you still should.

      • Apr 12, 20146:42 pm
        by Ken

        Reply

        I think he’s pretty useless based on the last two seasons, because of the emergence of Drummond inside. So I just don’t think he’s needed on this team anymore. 
         
        The last 3 games though have only confirmed to me that it hasn’t been Smith at SF that’s been preventing Monroe from succeeding at PF. He’s just not a PF. 
         
        And with Drummond able to dominate inside by himself without Monroe, why pay max money for a player you don’t even need?
         
        That’s my take on the situation. He’s not a useless player. He’s just useless to this team because he’s a Center and they already have a franchise Center.
         

        • Apr 12, 20147:17 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          3 games doesn’t trump what he’s done in the rest of his career at the 4. Do these 3 games trump the 10 games he started at PF last year, or pretty much all of his minutes at the 4 and without Smith earlier this season? These last few games aside, he’s generally been a productive PF when actually surrounded by shooters along the perimeter.
           
          By the way, Stuckey is about as bad for spacing as Smith is, and maybe worse. His .276 on shots from 3 only barely edges out Smith’s .264, and he’s way less willing to take the shot in the first place. Not wanting to jack up as many bad shots is not a bad thing for him as a player, but it is bad for the team’s floor spacing issues. I honestly think that having Stuckey in the starting lineup does a lot of the same things to Monroe’s game as putting Smith in there.

          • Apr 12, 20147:56 pm
            by Ken

            What has he done the rest of his career at PF?
             
            I don’t remember him doing anything special at PF in the final 10 games last year. And he hasn’t done anyting special this year at PF either.
             
            His defense has been atrocious. His offense has been average at best.
             
            All the excuses for why Monroe isn’t better is getting old. It sounds a lot like the Stuckey apologists the last 5 years. Maybe Monroe isn’t better because he just isn’t better. 
             
            I don’t think he’s a bad player. I just don’t think he’s an elite PF. Therefore we shouldn’t pay him as one. And if we are determined to spend that much on a PF, why not actually get an elite one like Bosh for only a few mil more?
             
            Monroe just isn’t worth the money, when there are much better players that can be had for the same price, and the fact that we really don’t even need a high priced PF with Drummond able to dominate inside by himself.
             
            Jut put a cheap stretch 4 next to him who can play good defense, like a Haslem type big. That’s all you need next to Drummond.

          • Apr 13, 201412:37 am
            by oats

            He put up 17.8 points and 9.9 rebounds while shooting 52% from the field in that 10 game stretch last year. I’ll gladly take that kind of production from a PF. I don’t have as easily digestible information for his time this year, but he’s generally been pretty solid when he has been given lineups with 3 actual perimeter players.
             
            Monroe probably isn’t an elite PF just yet. He is reasonably close to one, and given his age he is likely to keep improving. I’m not thrilled with paying a guy on the basis of him soon being worth the money as opposed to currently being worth it, but that’s kind of the way the NBA works with these initial post rookie contracts. Even if it doesn’t totally pan out, he likely will still have trade value since he can play center and that has some added value to it. I get that all of this is a bit risky, but it still makes some sense to me.
             
            There’s a couple flaws with the Bosh plan. The most obvious one is that Bosh would have to want to come to Detroit while Monroe doesn’t really have any say in the matter. The next is that Bosh is 6 years older than Monroe and 9 years older than Drummond. That’s important because this team is not likely to really compete until Drummond begins to enter his prime, which probably won’t happen until he’s 24. At that point Monroe will be 27 and entering his prime while Bosh will be 33. He might still have prime years left, but likely not many. If the team is going to spend big money on a player, I’d rather it be someone that has a decent chance of being a part of the team’s future when they are legitimately good. The last major flaw is the notion that we’re talking about a few million more for Bosh. Monroe’s max deal will likely be in the 4 year and $60 million range. For Bosh it’s about 4 years and $85 million. So, Monroe, the rookie, and about $7 million to spend or Bosh and the rookie. Honestly, I think they’d have to dump some salary to even afford Bosh and the rookie.
             
            As for the Haslem thing, do you actually think that a Haslem type would be as good as Monroe for the team? I can’t see it. There is a reason Monroe is about to get paid, and it’s that he is a lot better than a Haslem type.

          • Apr 13, 20141:01 pm
            by JOB

            but is monroe the worst shooter on the team outside 10 feet? all this ‘shooting 50%’ stuff is garbage games against guys who could care less about moose making layups at that point in the season or particular game. Boozer, Bosh, and Haslem have 10+ foot jumpers. Moose does not. Period. You can NOT have a PF without at least mid 30s low 40s% 10+ foot range. At least not for more than 6 mill… unless he’s a very very good defender. Moose doesn’t defend in open space well, and i never see that changing bc of his build, and he doesn’t have ANY shooting. That *might* change, but i can’t find another PF with similar spreads (total % shots inside 10 feet vs out) and %s at those spreads that’s got shooting game later in the career. Find one, ease our pain.

  • Apr 12, 20146:43 am
    by Hook Shot

    Reply

    I would have liked to see Mitchell play. His quickness and athleticism might have bothered Gibson. 

    • Apr 12, 201410:33 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Yeah, me too.

      • Apr 12, 20141:11 pm
        by JOB

        Reply

        so everyone got up thinking the same… when the bulls were CLEARLY going to overtake us, and JJ (who i think has shown some use) and Monroe were just done w Taj… where the he!l was mitchell?? Taj was playing mean demon ball. mean. Throw the rook in there, tell him to come out injured. he’d do it.

  • Apr 12, 20147:45 am
    by Tiko

    Reply

    I knew we were gonna lose even up 18. This team doesnt understand the concept of closing out an opponent.  Also, makes no sense Mitchell didn’t play. 

  • Apr 12, 20149:09 am
    by Jens

    Reply

    Please, can someone get rid of that pathetic Monroe. Can´t stand this guy no more!

  • Apr 12, 20149:29 am
    by I HATE LOSING (predicting a strong finish)

    Reply

    Good game! I hate meaningless wins!
    I’d sit Drummond in the last two game and not risk injury

    • Apr 12, 201410:35 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Well, at this point, a win is not a bad thing. Unless you believe Sacramento will win at least two of their matchups against the Clippers, Wolves, and Suns, the Pistons are locked into the 8th worst seed anyway.

    • Apr 12, 20141:19 pm
      by JOB

      Reply

      i caught one great top outside key catch that he turned into a fierce spin dribble and finish though… that kind of practice in games is invaluable. Looked very vintage DHo on that one.

    • Apr 12, 201410:52 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      It is time to change your name lol

  • Apr 12, 201410:35 am
    by bonerici

    Reply

    needs more F’s.   Blowing a 20 point lead against and indifferent bulls team I want everyone who was a matador on defense to get an F

    • Apr 12, 201410:38 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      If there is any team that should probably never be described as indifferent, it’s the Bulls.

      Also, I grade full games. Blowing a big lead is no more relevant than building up a big lead. The Pistons lost by 8 to the second or third best team in the conference. Nothing impressive abut that, but it’s not abysmal either.

  • Apr 12, 201410:43 am
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    Wait Wait Wait!!!
    Siva gets a B!
    WTH?
    He is the reason the Bulls got back into this game in the second half!
    The stupid fouls 
    The defense (literally Augustine destroyed him)
     
     

    • Apr 12, 201411:04 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      You have to understand that my bar for Siva is insanely low. I don’t believe he is a viable NBA player.

      • Apr 12, 201411:13 am
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        Well if that’s the case then yea the grade makes sense

      • Apr 12, 20141:14 pm
        by JOB

        Reply

        yeah, Siva cared out there, i give him that. But you’re right, it’s hard to see him NBA without a Bynum type path (over seas, get some older dude bulk, and come back). Arm fouls on shooters are very touchy in the pros too, it takes the new guys time to avoid those.

  • Apr 12, 201411:58 am
    by Mike

    Reply

    No more Jennings. On this team, based on talent, if they keep anyone but Drummond, smith, singler and the rookies, they are crazy. I know nobody is high on smith, but without Monroe and with more shooters around him he’s still better. He also has a nearly unmovable contract. The players who play the least defense have to go. That is especially Jennings and Monroe. Singler is limited defensively but is still the best sf they have currently. Sign a bunch of the best 3 and d players you can. Put them around drummond and smith… 

  • Apr 12, 201412:20 pm
    by James

    Reply

    Anything that includes moving Jennings and Monroe(Smith I will tolerate if forced to), I’M ALL FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Apr 12, 201412:58 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    So here we go guys you got your sample, not much but these 3 games should tell you something! Monroe is not a good fit next to Drummond period! 
    You guys keep saying he is a skilled big man! but lets be honest, how many shots does he make a game using the old schools moves? 2? 3? 4? Not much! 
    Here’s a sensitivity analysis on Andre Drummond FT percentage.
    If he made just 60% of his free throws this season he could have  easily averaged 14 points a game… pretty good for his age!
    60% 14 points
    70% 14.5 points
     
    80% 15 points
    Don’t forget that we don’t even run plays for him! If he improves his FT percentage next season to 60% + and we start running some plays for him! I can see him averaging 17+ points game. Add 14-15 rebounds a game and we we’ve got a super super star!
     

    • Apr 12, 20146:58 pm
      by Ken

      Reply

      Also it should be noted that his 13/13 average comes in only 32 mpg.
       
      If he were getting the 38-39 mpg that Howard got at the same age, he may be avg 16/16 right now.

      • Apr 12, 20147:01 pm
        by Ken

        Reply

        Actually Dwight only played about 36-37 mpg at 20, but you get the point :)
         
        I think I was confusing Dwight with Shaq, who did play 38-39 mpg.

    • Apr 12, 20147:24 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      @ BK. I said it above, but we already have a larger sample than this. 10 games last year and every minute played with Drummond and without Smith this year is still a lot more than just these 3 games. It’s also not an example of Monroe, Drummond, and 3 shooters. That has always been what was seen as the way to get the most out of the Monroe and Drummond front court. Instead of that we got Stuckey to help further clog up paint instead of Smith to further clog up the paint.

      • Apr 12, 20147:48 pm
        by Ken

        Reply

        Ok, even if in theory the Monroe/Drummond frontcourt could form the best offense in the league, if surrounded by 3 great shooters…what about the other side of the ball?
         
        They will never be a good defense with Monroe at PF. He’s just too big of a liability. So unless you plan on winning championships by outscoring teams 108-105 every night, I don’t get why fans in favor of Monroe always point to the offensive benefits of the pairing, as if that’s the end all be all when it comes to winning championships, all while completely ignoring its negatives on defense.
         
         
         
         

        • Apr 13, 201412:57 am
          by oats

          Reply

          I disagree with the very premise of this post. Great defenses are formed around pretty weak defenders reasonably often. Carlos Boozer is a bad defender but Chicago is a good defensive team. They have the second best defense this year despite giving heavy minutes to Boozer, Dunleavy, and Augustin. Heck, they traded away their second best defender just 23 games into the season and they are still the second ranked defense. Heck, the Magic fielded a top notch defense with just Dwight Howard and 4 bad defensive players. Bad individual defenders can be overcome to form good team defenses.
           
          Detroit would need one really good defender, a couple other solid ones, and a good coach to become a good defensive team despite Monroe. Luckily, Drummond still projects as a really good defender down the road even if he is pretty far from being one right now. If he gets there then that’s most of the way to solving the problem. If Drummond doesn’t hit that projection then it might become necessary to move Monroe, but that seems like a problem to fix when we actually know that it is a problem.

  • Apr 12, 20149:44 pm
    by andy

    Reply

    Just let Monroe walked, still haven’t recovered from failing to read him…

  • Apr 12, 20149:45 pm
    by andy

    Reply

    Walk*

  • Apr 13, 201412:31 am
    by OOtis

    Reply

    Minus Monroe (and with another wing), this team could excel at an up tempo game.  Remember earlier in the season when the Pistons were known for sucking in the fourth quarter?  A lot of that is because Jennings is at his best when playing fast and creating.  Smith’s best years were as a 4.  Get value for Monroe and get a coach in here who can install a faster pace (something tells me D’Antoni’s going to be available, someone like him), and all of a sudden the Pistons are a playoff team.  Jennings right now is trying to work with three players playing the wrong position at all times.  He’s frustrating to watch, but a lot of it is Singler, Smith, and Monroe being slow for their respective positions.

    • Apr 13, 20142:42 pm
      by JOB

      Reply

      OOtis: i actually agree. JJ and Datome should swap in for KCP and Monroe. They’re our best mid and 3pt jump shooters. Datome’s 3 is awful right now, but he’s shooting 40% in midrange so at least you’ve got some high key screen stuff you could try. If andre or Josh got catches around the baseline, and JJ was at that same corner for a 3, that’s a play right there. Lots of other teams run it! BJ had Ersan and Dunleavy to run similar stuff with. If we get our decent catch and shoot guys at their spots, BJ can penetrate and kick to them. We just didn’t have ANY catch and shoot players our there in meaningful roles.
      http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2014.html
      the ‘shooting’ table don’t lie.

  • Apr 13, 20148:33 am
    by Hook Shot

    Reply

    No to Dantoni. The D would suck even more. They need someone who is a good teacher and preach defense. I’d Chuancy isn’t going to be around they also need a level head in the locker room. 

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