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Should Pistons trade Greg Monroe?

I participated in a 5-on-5 on ESPN about whether teams should trade their stars or near-stars, and we were asked about Greg Monroe:

5. Fact or Fiction: The Pistons should move Monroe before the deadline.

Adande: Fact. If Greg Monroe had followed a natural progression, he should have been battling for an All-Star spot this season. Instead, his numbers are down all over. The Josh Smith signing gives the Pistons a frontcourt-heavy team at a time when the rest of the league is going to the perimeter. The Pistons are 26th in the league in 3-pointers made. They should trade Monroe, a player without a 3-point attempt this season, for an outside threat.

Elhassan: Faction. I mean, Fict. I mean, it’s complicated. Detroit should try to move Smith, who was an awful signing from a fit perspective, but with almost the entirety of his $54 million still on the books, it’ll struggle to find takers. Unfortunately, the current combination can’t flourish moving forward without the addition of talent (shooting!), and Monroe’s youth, production and right-of-first-refusal status make him the easier trade piece.

Feldman: Fiction. Monroe is one of the NBA’s premier young offensive big men. He doesn’t fit well with the Pistons’ current roster, but they shouldn’t be too concerned with short-term fit. Monroe could fit well with Andre Drummond in three years, and that matters more than the couple of extra wins a lower-upside wing would bring this season.

Strauss: Fact. Perhaps I’m wrong on this, but I believe that offense-first big men are generally overvalued. The exceptions to this philosophy are guys like Dirk Nowitzki who can stretch opposing defenders to the 3-point arc. Monroe can’t stretch the opposing defense, and he doesn’t play good defense. Teams that trade that type of player tend to end up better off.

Sunnergren: Fact. In a perfect world, the Pistons would trade Smith, work out an extension with Monroe and go to bed each night secure in the knowledge that, with him and Drummond, they had one of the top frontcourts in the sport. Alas, we don’t live in a perfect world. We live in one where Detroit’s roster is an unworkable disaster and Smoove’s $54 million deal is unmovable. Time to make a deal.

If you want to know whether we’d trade Pau Gasol, Rajon Rondo, Carmelo Anthony and Kyle Lowry, click through to ESPN.

44 Comments

  • Feb 4, 20144:27 pm
    by jamesjones_det

    Reply

    I could argue both sides of this, but TBH I just want this team to pick a direction and stick to it and make moves that helps realize that direction.
     
    Is Monroe your PF of the future? 

    If Yes then lets move Stuck and CV for whatever you can get because once we sign Monroe we aren’t going to be left with that much cap space for other deals (assuming we don’t get lucky and get him on the cheap).  Also lets send Josh to be bench and let him be a 6th/7th man because it’s fairly clear he’s not a good SF for this team.
    If No then move him, if you can’t move him, lets send him to the bench and move JS to the 4 and see if you can get something going with that lineup going forward.

     
    Either way I just want management to make a darn decision on this instead just heading down this broken road for what seems like forever.

  • Feb 4, 20144:43 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    I think my issue with Greg is his defense…offensively he gets soo much out of so little…but defensively nothing is being offered….and he not going dominate on offense enough to make up for his lack of defense

  • Feb 4, 20144:45 pm
    by CNA5

    Reply

    Fact.  The Pistons should trade Greg Monroe.
     
    1.  He’s asking for and inevitably will get max money in the lunacy of NBA free agency.  I like Greg Monroe a lot for $11-12M/year- not so much at $16M/year.
    2.  Smith’s been productive at the 4.  When Smith plays the 3 in the jumbo lineup, he has a terrible 41% TS% and 0.85 points per possession (PPP).  Josh and Greg (with Drummond absent), it’s 51% and 0.98.  When Josh and Andre play together, it’s 51% and 1.00.  Furthermore, when Josh Smith plays the 4 next to Drummond or Monroe, the Pistons outscore the other team (as opposed to narrowly being outscored).
    3.  I’m concerned with Monroe’s development.  I realize that all players have weaknesses.  But, we should see SOME progress in 4 years.  Body evolution?  None.  He still gets pushed around too much in the post by centers.  15+ foot jump shot?  Not there, despite the fact that it would be the perfect weapon against the athletic bigs he struggles against at the rim.  Free throw attempts/percentage?  No evolution there, either.  And, for how well he sees the floor (his passing is excellent) and how good his hand-eye coordination is, you’d think that we’d see growth in his steal percentage (we haven’t).  Guys like Armon Gilliam and Tom Chambers (both skilled players, but not the greatest of athletes) adapted by becoming ambidextrous in the post- adding an element of surprise that negated their opponents athleticism.  From the game’s I’ve seen, he doesn’t seem all that comfortable going to his right hand around the rim.
    With all that being said above, I have a huge question that always eventually comes to my mind.  Is it that he *couldn’t* do those things, or is it that he *wouldn’t* do those things?
    4.  Both Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe have each had 9 games where they didn’t reach double figures in points.  For how much more polished Greg’s game is and with how bad he is defensively, that shouldn’t happen.  If he’s going to be a significantly below average defender, then he MUST be a reliable offensive weapon that teams have to game plan against.  I’m not certain that he is that player.
     

    • Feb 4, 20146:41 pm
      by bonerici

      Reply

      u really want to go there?  Greg Monroe’s development?  Do you remember 2004, when Josh Smith was a prospect?  Here’s the scouting report:
       
      * * *

      Strengths: Smith has to be a favorite to win next year’s slam dunk contest — he’s that athletic. With absolutely stunning hops, Smith was a human highlight reel as a senior at Oak Hill last year, averaging 23 points, eight rebounds and five assists per game. While he’s a constant threat to take it to the rack on offense, Smith’s leaping ability also helps him block shots from all over the floor on defense and grab loads of rebounds on both sides of the floor. Smith, who hails from the same prep school as Carmelo Anthony and Jerry Stackhouse, also has a dangerous left-handed mid-range jumper and tremendous passing skills even though he prefers to play above the rim. In addition to his scoring prowess, Smith is unselfish with the rock and has demonstrated solid passing skills.

      Weaknesses: Like so many other potential lottery picks, Smith is raw. He’s still learning the game and tends to rely too much on athleticism at times, which worked in high school but won’t in the NBA. Although he’s got good strength at the high school level, he needs to gain weight in order to deal with the physical NBA game. He has a solid mid-range shot when wide open, but he needs to add a consistent 3-pointer and learn how to create his own shot in order to become a true offensive threat. Despite his athleticism, Smith will have a hard time matching up with other small forwards or shooting guards until he works on his handle and post-up moves as well as develops a go-to move. On defense, Smith still has a lot to learn despite his shot-blocking ability.

      The Lowdown: The sky is the limit for Smith, who has already signed an endorsement deal with adidas. Some scouts say that in time he could develop into a Tracy McGrady clone.

      * * *

       
      10 years later Josh Smith still needs to work on his jumper, relies too much on athleticism and needs a bit of work on his handle.  But the sky is the limit.
       
      Oh wait.  He’s getting older.   So actually.  Yeah, he’s getting worse every year.   He hasn’t developed a single aspect of his game other than good defense since he came into the NBA.
       
      Greg Monroe has been developing his jumper and he has increased his accuracy from 10-15 feet this year but you can’t tell because Josh Smith shoots 20 times a game compared to Greg’s 5-10 times a game.

      • Feb 4, 20147:25 pm
        by JYD for Life

        Reply

        Do you remember that time Smith finished with his right hand?  Oh wait!  That has never happened…Impressive development after nearly a decade.  
         
        I’m with you that Moose will continue to get better.  He’s below average defensively largely because we have a rookie and a stick figure playing defense on the perimeter.  Smith playing at the SF slot doesn’t help this either.  
        There is no reason to believe Drummond can’t guard Power Forwards in this league.  He’s athletic enough.  If they both develop, it seems like Monroe and Drummond could play together.   

      • Feb 4, 20147:55 pm
        by jg22

        Reply

        So basically you just showed an example of why not to trust that a player will develop as expected.
         
        The same things were said about Smith and he still doesn’t have a good jumpshot. So not exactly the best example for your point.

        • Feb 4, 20148:21 pm
          by bonerici

          Reply

          greg has developed his game every year.  Remember he was a #7 pick.   Evan Turner, Wesley Johnson, Ekpe Udoh, Cousins,  were all drafted above Greg, and during the first six months here in Detroit he did not have much of an NBA game.
          He has developed into a really good player.   Will he stop progressing?  Maybe.  But he has shown he can improve and there’s no reason to think he will quit working on his game.
           
          Josh Smith however . . . I mean I didn’t start this.  I didn’t start this “Hasn’t improved his game enough so we should keep josh smith instead thing” that was CNA5

          • Feb 4, 201411:43 pm
            by CNA5

            That’s an oversimplification of my statement.  Please allow me to clarify.
             
            #1:  Monroe will yield more in a trade.  Simply put, it’s hard to believe that the Pistons could trade Smith’s $13.5M contract with 3 additional years to a team without having to take some sort of toxic asset back.  That’ $13.5M is too much for trade exceptions or young perimeter players in return.  Monroe could yield a first round pick and a young player in return.  28 year old Josh Smith with 3 years and $40.5M left on his deal?  Probably not.
             
            #2:  It’s not as simple as a Smith over Monroe thing right now.  It also factors in salary.  Look at Carlos Boozer in Chicago.  Carlos Boozer is a good post player.  He has a good step back 15 footer.  He continually puts up steady scoring a rebounding numbers.  GMs LOVED Carlos Boozer at $10-$12M/year.  At $15M and ballooning to $16.8M, that’s why Chicago will likely amnesty him despite being a productive player.  Max deals to players who can’t night in and night out play up to a max deal can hinder teams in the future.  Smith’s a serviceable power forward and his contract allows you to replace him when Andre Drummond reaches Monroe’s point now.  A max Monroe and a max Drummond will have Detroit on the hook for ~$33M, at least 50% of a future salary cap assuming slow growth.  In that time, Detroit will still likely have Smith’s $13.5M (albeit expiring and able to move), Jennings ($8.3M), and that takes the same basic team with the same basic flaws to a full salary cap.  Both Monroe’s and Smith’s trade values will drop.  Monroe will enter a max contract BYC that makes it extremely difficult to move him.  Smith will be a year older still playing in a bad fit at the 3- do you think that will make his trade value go up or down?
             
            #3:  Josh Smith is certainly a player who hasn’t ever reached his potential.  I certainly agree with most criticisms with Josh.  But, there’s a huge difference between Smith and Monroe- athleticism.  Smith can handle the defensive responsibility of being a rim protector in the new NBA where perimeter defense is so hard to accomplish.  For Smith’s poor decision making offensively, he remains an excellent post defender when allowed to play his natural power forward position.  Smith is what he is, yet he isn’t ever hindered by anyone else from doing what he wants to do at the 4.  Drummond and Smith for the rest of this year and next is formidable. 
             
            #4:  By trading Monroe, I don’t mean to give him away.  How about Monroe and Bynum for Asik and a 1st round pick?  Or Monroe for Harrison Barnes? (A guy who played really well last season before being the odd man out in Golden State when Iguodala arrived)  Even if you don’t like either of those deals, you’re going to get far more for Monroe than Smith at this point.  I’m not saying that the Pistons should trade him just to trade him.  They should trade him for a long term piece they feel will fit with Drummond or assets for them to acquire them as Drummond matures.  The key really is finding those guys who complement and will thrive playing next to Drummond entering his prime in 2 years.
            If that guy is Monroe, I’ll gladly hope you are right and I’ll eat crow if Monroe is a player that’s worthy of a max deal.  That’s certainly a best case scenario.
            I’m just worried that his physical limitations will never be overcome by his skill.
             

    • Feb 4, 20148:49 pm
      by pablum

      Reply

      @CNA5. Very convincing post. Impressive analytics. I just can’t figure out why in the actual fabric of reality of the game that anyone could believe Josh Smith is more valuable to this team than Greg Monroe. Whatever variables you compute, these are abstract by definition, and not necessarily manifest in the reality of the game even though they are statistically real. I’ll explain in a minute. Let me get a drink.
      Okay, but before I go on. Have to say Tom a Chambers and Arman Gilliam never made the adaptations you assert. Gilliam was always an immovable mass And Chambers a semi-swift big who could shoot. That’s it. That’ s who they were.
      Okay, so this is the famous Monty Hall paradox. I’m not joking. One of the most important paradoxes of the 20th century. So what it basically proves is that you can have this distorted perception that Josh Smith is a more productive player, a better player, for the Pistons than Greg Monroe, and support this distortion with analytics based in reality — even though it’s obvious to anyone who really watches the game that such an assertion is patently absurd. We know Greg Monroe is better than Josh Smith. The league knows. No GM would even consider taking Josh Smith over Greg Monroe. This is a fact. But analytics say otherwise.
      Now, setting aside the money arguments you made about why Smith is more valuable than Greg, and your Darwinian argument of his NBA evolution, both of which are negligible when considering how superior Monroe is to the chemistry of a team, how All league GM’s would mock any question of whether you’d take Monroe or Smith to integrate in your team as is, or build around in the future. …..Hear that? That’s how many GMs would take Smith over Moose.
      Monty Hall did that game show, Let’s Make a Deal. You had to choose one of three curtains to win a prize. The prize was only behind one curtain, the other two were duds. And what the Monty Hall paradox proved was that if you were given the option of having a second choice, to choose a different curtain than the one you selected prior, that you would have a better chance of picking the correct curtain with the prize. Hear me out. I’m not making this up. It proves there’s a fissure in reality, mathematical reality. I’m not joking. And that’s why you think Josh Smith is better than Greg Monroe.
       

    • Feb 4, 201411:54 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      @CNA5. First of all, where did those Smith stats come from? I’m curious because I don’t know where to find them. The best I have is his numbers on 82games.com that say he’s effective field goal percentage is .435 at SF and .446 at PF. It’s not perfect, but I can calculate a true shooting percentage based on his points, FGA, and FTA per 48 minutes at those positions. It’s not quite right since I’m using per 48 stats and not totals, but it should be kind of close. That gives him a true shooting percentage of roughly 45% at SF and 47% at PF, and both of those are pretty terrible. So if you’ve got a better place to get stats based on position played I’d like to know. Even more so if it actually has his stats depending on who is playing with him.
       
      As for Mornoe’s development, he took a huge jump in productivity across the board in his second season. You can’t just ignore that. In his 3rd year it was a bit more slight, but he did add more of his passing and he got better at that bull rush move from the high post. His defense has also improved every year even if it still is bad. This year his production has fallen off because his touches are way down. I’d still say that he was developing and might even still be developing since he’s got his shooting efficiency back up a bit this year.

    • Feb 5, 20147:40 am
      by bonerici

      Reply

      Cna5 the solution to not having any money because of Greg Monroe’s contract is easy. …..trade away Josh Smith now for a bag of peanuts.  

  • Feb 4, 20145:21 pm
    by Jodi

    Reply

    Ficition: We’re not trading Monroe anytime soon and we’ll match any and all offers this summer…Now-a-days, teams don’t let hot commodities like skilled bigs go…
     
    Gracias Jodi

  • Feb 4, 20146:07 pm
    by TMC

    Reply

    @cna5 exactly he doesn’t require a double team nightly. With every nice move he’s watching on defense like me lol. 
    I have a accepted that the top PFs will dominate him. But it hurts when he can’t dominate the Taj Gibsons, Brandon bass, Amare 
    Trade him with Cv for Bass and Green from Celtics
    Stuckey for Jr Smith or Marcus Thornton
    We back
    For the record Jr Smith > Rodney Stuckey 
     
     

  • Feb 4, 20147:16 pm
    by Hook Shot

    Reply

    We should not trade at this time. I do not trust Dumars to get the most in return. Besides Dumars and Cheeks may be history after this season (we can only hope).  Let the new GM seek a sign and trade or see if he will take a hometown discount especially if we are able to replace Cheeks and get someone reputable. 

  • Feb 4, 20147:19 pm
    by JYD for Life

    Reply

    Fact:  
    But only if the return helps accomplish a few things:  Shore up the starting lineup by adding perimeter scoring and defense, sheds a bad contract or nets an equally intriguing young prospect (few out there who would even be in the conversation of “available” for Greg).  Bolstering the bench would be solid too, but not a requirement because we could do that with expirings or during the summer.   
     
    Keep in mind that my preference would be to send Smith packing because I truly believe Monroe can play with Drummond.  There’s no reason to think that Drummond isn’t athletic enough to guard PFs in the league, especially once he becomes a more competent player on the defensive end.  
     
    I’ll probably be laughed at, but look at what this could do for the Pistons:
    Trade Monroe/CV/Stuckey to Boston for Green/Bradley/Humphries (or Bass instead of Humph if you put Jonas instead of Stuckey) might work for a few reasons: 
    - Adding two above average perimeter defenders to the starting lineup solves a LOT of issues on that end, but also from a spacing standpoint offensively.  Bradley and Green are at or above league average from behind the arc (both are 35% career and could end up close to 40% within the next few years) and free throw line (75% and 79% for their respective careers).  Both average close to 15 points per game.  Combined with Drummond, Smith and Jennings, that’s 4 maybe 5 (hopefully Drummond becomes a consistent threat to do this) guys who can drop 20 on any given night.  It clears things up to feature Drummond more and hopefully less of Smith because he will be confident passing to capable perimeter players.  
    - Move KCP to the bench for now.  Bynum, KCP, Singler and Humphries off of the bench.  This team makes the Playoffs and the sky doesn’t fall because we don’t have a draft pick.    
    - Humphries is expiring, but I get the sense he’s looking for stability and you could sign him for a reasonable multi-year deal as your primary big off of the bench.  
    - Bradley is a restricted FA this summer.  I don’t see him getting more than 7-8 million per season on the open market.   If he ends up commanding more than that, perhaps a sign and trade can be worked out.  Worst case, you let him walk and hope that KCP develops over the course of the next 30+ games.   With KCP projecting to be about what Bradley is, it might make sense to explore trades to unload Bradley this summer anyway.  Not the most strategic move by bringing on a guy just to trade him again in 4 months, but he is an asset.  You could also move KCP for a future 1st if Bradley works out and you want him to stick.    
     
    There just isn’t a lot out there that makes it worth moving Moose.  There are a lot of solid players, but none which jump out as “must haves.”   Also, there are not a ton of teams for which adding Monroe makes any sense.  
    -Beal?  Washington is apparently high on him and would prefer to make a run at Moose during the summer and keep Gortat on the backburner as a fallback option should the Pistons match.  I’m also not sure Beal for Greg straight up is a good trade.  He’s been really injury-prone in his first two years.  Ariza is expiring, but I would think they would shy away from including him in a deal because they are in position to make the playoffs and he’s been a big part of that this year.  Even adding him doesn’t excite me because he is an UFA this summer.  
    - Kawhi Leonard?  I could see the Spurs agreeing to this, but again, need more for Monroe.  They really don’t have much else to include.  Is Leonard and a very late, first round pick worth it?  I’m not sure. 
    - Harrison Barnes?  GS does not need Monroe.  Won’t work. 
    - Gallinari?  Might work, but I don’t see Denver taking on another big that they have to pay over 10 mil per year without us taking something they don’t want in return.  Gallo is hurt and a question mark moving forward.  
    - Dragic?  I would, but at this point, I doubt Phoenix would.  They will have to max out Bledsoe and might wait to see how that plays out before moving Dragic.  Moose doesn’t really fit their style of play either.  This would also give the Pistons a weird backcourt because Jennings can be ball-dominant…it would also be an undersized backcourt and this solves nothing defensively.      
    - Hayward?  I’m not sure Utah does that with Favors and Kanter in the fold.  
    - Evan Turner?  Maybe…but he’s due for a decent payout this summer and does not have efficient range.  He’s ok, but I’m not sure he helps more than adding pieces around Monroe.   
     

    • Feb 4, 201411:08 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I would do the Leonard trade. I know a lot of people were projecting him to take a step up this year and he really hasn’t, but I’m not that concerned with that. It’s pretty common for a guy to have a slight plateau in their development and it doesn’t mean that guy has hit his ceiling. The Spurs also haven’t actually given him a bigger role so it’s hard to tell if his supposed lack of development is actually a thing or if he just hasn’t had a chance to show what development he’s made. Regardless, his defense is good enough that he’s pretty close to an equivalent talent and he’s got an extra year on his rookie contract.
       
      I don’t get why people like Harrison Barnes. His per minute numbers are practically identical to Kyle Singler’s, but he has a worse true shooting percentage. It’s also not like he’s a good defensive player. I do think the fact that Golden State has a ton of other scorers is limiting his play, but I still think he projects as a pretty average starter.
       
      As for Hayward, I don’t think Kanter is that big of an impediment to bringing in Monroe. He can’t defend and he’s not nearly as good on the boards as Monroe. He’s also not nearly the passer that Greg is either. He’s just not as good of a prospect as Monroe, and he’s lost his starting job to Marvin Williams. I think Detroit is the one who should be nervous about this deal. Hayward’s 3 point shot has abandoned him this year as he’s shooting .311 on 3s. If he returns to form then it’s a solid deal for Detroit, but if he doesn’t then Detroit could very well end up losing that trade.
       
      Evan Turner is the top of my list of free agents to avoid this summer. This is the first time he’s ever been an average efficiency shooter, and he’s merely average. I think there is a very real concern that this is a guy playing way better in a contract year and he might revert to his old production level. He’s a terrible 3 point shooter that doesn’t really want to take them, so he does nothing for spacing. He’s also a truly awful defender. This team’s two biggest problems are their lack of outside shooting and their defense. Turner solves none of these problems and likely makes them worse.

      • Feb 5, 20149:05 pm
        by JYD for Life

        Reply

        Oats - 
        I’m with you on Turner, Barnes and Hayward.  That’s why I pointed them out.  I would almost hang onto Moose and see what develops.  Barnes had a really good month last season and people go nuts. Hayward is about to be tremendously overpaid for a guy with a lot of limitations, as is Turner. 

  • Feb 4, 20147:25 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    They will probably try a sign n trade in the offseason…they may be trying everything in their power to trade Smith from now until we must make a choice on Moose…unless something great comes to Joe then they will likely stand pat and shit the season away…

  • Feb 4, 20147:31 pm
    by Jon

    Reply

    I don’t think Adande has watched a Piston’s game this season with that comment (not that I really blame him for that). Clearly Smith takes away any chance for Monroe to put up all star numbers.

    • Feb 4, 20147:57 pm
      by jg22

      Reply

      I heard Smith was also responsible for selling the heroin to Philip Seymour Hoffman, as well as the 911 attacks. 

      • Feb 4, 201411:11 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        I wouldn’t put it all on Smith since Jennings also has some of the blame. Monroe’s production is down because his touches are way down. That’s clearly because Smith and Jennings have such high usage rates and there just aren’t enough touches to go around.

  • Feb 4, 20148:05 pm
    by jg22

    Reply

    I’m 50-50 on trading Monroe. They would have to get an equal young talent in return at SF. Like a Barnes, Hayward, Leonard, etc. Turner is probably equally talented but doesn’t provide the shooting needed. 
     
    I probably just keep him if you cant get those guys though, and try to trade for Gary Neal instead. He would be perfect here and Bucks are looking to trade him. Hes cheap too. Im surprised we already haven’t traded for him with the Joe-Hammond connection.

  • Feb 4, 20148:13 pm
    by TMC

    Reply

    People act as if Smith wasn’t here moose flaws wouldn’t be getting exposed.
    Just like with Stuckey years ago pistons fans blame everybody but the player for him underachieving. He’s not getting the ball,well get an offensive board… 
    Like really As of February 4th 2014 I believe andray blatche or jj hickson,hell luis scola ,Kenyon Martin could outplay him anyday 
    He’s effective verse many dominate verse none

    • Feb 4, 20149:39 pm
      by Trout Jefferson

      Reply

      Monroe DOES get offensive boards. One of the best in the league (Drummond is THE best). So this criticism doesn’t make a lick of sense. 

  • Feb 4, 201411:24 pm
    by Marvin Madison

    Reply

    The thing with that is you cant bench a guy thats making 54million dollars Smith is here to be the face of the pistons they just have to trade Monroe and get some guys here that can fit smith’s game mostly wing shooters and slash fowards they have to start getting a excitable product on the floor so fans can appreciate this team further on if they want to be watchable 

  • Feb 5, 20143:32 am
    by microjfox

    Reply

    CNA5 is Joe Dumars. I have inside intel.

  • Feb 5, 20148:15 am
    by bonerici

    Reply

    cna5 great analysis, i agree you cant build a team with greg drummond brandon josh you have no money left.   And you can’t bench a guy making 54 million.  
     
    so here is my genius move.  We trade Josh Smith for a bag of peanuts.  We can eat the peanuts or throw them out doesn’t matter.   Now we have room for greg drummond brandon and a wing guy moving forward.  KCP is here to stay even if he doesn’t ever shoot, I loved yesterday’s post about how cares for the rock like it is his own baby, never turns it over.
     
    If you dont like this lineup, brandon kcp XXXX greg drummond for the future it’s because you dont like some of those pieces.  
     
    I think brandon, greg, andre and KCP are all getting better each year.  Let them grow with each other.   They are a fine team to build around.  There is only one piece that is out of place that is the XXX which is josh smith.   He’s poison.

    • Feb 5, 20149:25 am
      by oats

      Reply

      You actually missed something though. Jennings will have his contract expire in the same year that Drummond gets a new contract. What’s more, the team currently has $10 million to spend in free agency this summer even if they don’t make a move. Assuming they actually spend it, there is a very real chance that they won’t be able to afford to bring Jennings back without going into the luxury tax. The point is that it isn’t an unknown player, Jennings, KCP, Greg, and Drummond. It’s actually going to be 2 unknown players, KCP, Greg, and Drummond. I actually like the look of that much better than having Jennings locked in.

  • Feb 5, 20148:47 am
    by Mr Woods

    Reply

    Greg Monroe should have been traded a yr ago, especially around the draft. You could’ve gotten some young players & draft picks for him. He regressed/was exposed when we drafted Drummond. Monroe & Smith should be gone! Get rid of Stuckey, Villanueva, Jerebko, Bynum, & Cheeks! The Pistons are always a day late & a dollar short with the moves they make. #Fact. Shortly, Andre Drummond is going to want out!

  • Feb 5, 20149:44 am
    by Parsons

    Reply

    I’m don’t think we’re trading anyone. We’ve ruled out Monroe, Drummond, KCP, and Stuckey, no one wanted Jennings and Smith but us, and I really don’t think we’d be willing to give up Singler easily either. That doesn’t leave much left unless you think CV could be flipped for Jared Dudley or someone like that. That means we’re stuck with this mess. Bright side though is Dumars will be gone after another crap season. At least thats one good thing.

  • Feb 5, 201410:37 am
    by freeparty

    Reply

    None of this would be neccessary if the Pistons signed Andre Igudala instead of Josh Smith.  Likely, he wanted to live in a nicer area and play for a better team, like anyone in their right mind.  Pistons will remain a plan b for free agents and coaches, ie. Caldwell and Lions.  More people leave Detroit than come in.  Sports are not different than reality.

  • Feb 5, 201410:48 am
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    Smith historically as been a better PF than Monroe on both sides of the floor…Smith numbers gave suffered this season because of an undefined role on this team…
    Greg at PF will continue to be exposed especially on defense….we are hoping he gets better offensively when that not the issue, it’s his ability to defend in….and on offense he has become a one trick pony, that can be contained with more athletic and long defenders.. .that don’t need to leave their feet to defend him
    I tire of people crying about Jennings last year, soo many of you cried that Knight could lead or make the right decisions on a simple fast break…. you cry about Jennings shooting….well let’s think about this…
    We have 2 plays that can create off the dribble and score off the bounce…that Jennings and Stuckey…
    At some point you have to just shut up and give him the nod….honesty this teams failure has more to do with coaching than it does with the talent….

    • Feb 5, 20141:40 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Smith has not been better than Monroe on both sides of the ball taken separately because Josh Smith is not a good offensive player. Admittedly we’re only talking this year and last year where he has been bad, but prior to that he was pretty average. He’s got a career offensive rating of 101 versus Monroe’s 106. This is also his second consecutive year posting a negative offensive win share. His career true shooting percentage of .512 is below average for a PF while Monroe’s true shooting percentage of .549 is well above it. I will concede that he’s probably a little bit ahead of Monroe as a passer, but the difference is pretty minimal and coming into this season we’d seen Monroe taking strides in that every year. I suspect that if Monroe had more touches the gap would continue to narrow, although I’d also guess that Smith probably would still have a very slight edge. All that said, Smith is not as good of a passer as he thinks he is and that does get him into trouble from time to time.
       
      Now if you are talking about Smith’s offensive contribution and defensive contributions combined are better than Monroe’s combined efforts, that I’ll at least admit is debatable. He’s a really good defender and other than the past 2 seasons he has been at least a positive for his team on offense. Considering the fact that Monroe’s defense is definitely still harmful, there is legitimate reason to think that Smith’s all around play is better than Monroe’s. The thing is, I’m not so certain that is true anymore. Last year Smith’s step back made them effectively equivalent players who produced on opposite ends of the court, and he’s followed that up with an even bigger step back this year. Monroe meanwhile has at least improved his efficiency, although his total production is down since his usage rate is way down. Monroe also has shown signs of improvement on defense, although it does seem like his focus on that side of the ball has slipped since the early part of the year. Even if this year turns out to be an anomaly, a case can be made that Monroe is the better player now.
       
      On to Jennings. Monroe, Smith, and Bynum can all make plays for themselves, so this claim is flat out wrong. Admittedly Smith is shooting too much as it is, so the obvious answer would be feed the Moose. Yet that’s probably not all of the correct answer. Detroit is tied for 23rd in assists per game, so only 6 teams get fewer assists than the Pistons do. That’s despite a starting lineup that features that 7th best player in assists per game and 2 of the best front court passers in the league. They also use 2 bench guards that have played PG for most of their careers, although admittedly Stuckey seems uninterested in facilitating this year. This makes no sense. This team should feature a lot more ball movement than it currently does, which should allow those guys that can’t create for themselves to get off more shots. A good deal of this falls on the coach and his iso heavy schemes, but Jennings loves to play hero ball which makes it even worse. Quite simply, Jennings being good at missing shots is not an asset.

  • Feb 5, 201412:54 pm
    by Smitty

    Reply

    I just read that the Bobcats may be interested in Moose, but also that the Pistons may not make any moves. What would be a good trade from Charlotte? MKG our 1st rounder and their 1st rounder for Moose?

    • Feb 5, 20141:25 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      If Dumars somehow managed to get all of that for Monroe, I would officially be off of the “Let Joe Go” bandwagon. Also, somebody would need to investigate whether Dumars had been blackmailing Cho.

      • Feb 5, 20141:51 pm
        by Smitty

        Reply

        Haha I don’t think the bobcats can trade their 1st rounder though. But getting ours back plus MKG would be good right?

        • Feb 5, 20142:34 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          That’s true, The Bulls currently own it, although with protections. But they could trade Portland’s pick, for which my comment would still hold.

      • Feb 5, 20149:01 pm
        by JYD for Life

        Reply

        Why would MKG be good for this team?  
        Yes, much needed defense, but he can’t shoot and really can’t shoot free throws.  Doesn’t do much for me…if you get two picks, then fine, but even still…a very late 1st rounder and a late lottery pick isn’t enough for Monroe.  
         

  • Feb 5, 20144:26 pm
    by freeparty

    Reply

    Pistons would average 78 points a game and give up 81.

    • Feb 5, 20145:02 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      So what you’re saying is that they’d be almost exactly as good as they presently are (score 100 and give up 103) except that they’d be a lot more interesting because they’d have the best D and worst O the NBA has seen in a long time.

      • Feb 5, 20149:02 pm
        by JYD for Life

        Reply

        MKG does not give the Pistons the “Best D.”  
        It’s a team game and one lockdown defender doesn’t make up for Jennings’ lack of interest and Drummond’s still-developing defense. 
         

        • Feb 5, 20149:48 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          He’s talking about if the team scored 78 and allowed 81 points a game. The team that gives up the fewest points this year is the Pacers at 90 a game. Giving up 9 fewer points than the Pacers would require a ridiculously good defense, and it would in fact have to be the best D in the league.

  • Feb 5, 201410:04 pm
    by TMC

    Reply

    BigBaby tonight > Moose

  • Feb 6, 20142:54 pm
    by Dave

    Reply

    I’ve put a lot of thought into this and I think I would do the Barnes for Monroe trade (maybe they throw us a pick in there too). GS would have a monster big man rotation of Lee/Bogut/Monroe and wouldn’t lose much in the backcourt, while we’d get a starting 3 on the cheap who still has a high ceiling. I also think, with the right coaching which is another issue all together, that Smith/Drummond have the ability to be a dominant interior defensive duo. I’d then take the CV/Stuckey money we free up to re-sign Stuckey (2-years, $10 million) and would spend the rest on a PG. Doesn’t make us champions but takes us in the right direction.

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