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Andre Drummond’s Rising Stars Challenge MVP says a lot about his future, even more about his present

The Rising Stars Challenge Trophy split in two, and its presenter, the president of the company that sponsors the game, looked flummoxed. He quickly jammed his microphone into someone else’s hands, picked up the trophy and tried in vain to screw the pieces together.

Andre Drummond smiled and laughed. Calmly, he took the trophy from the presenter and held the pieces together proudly over his head.

It was as if Drummond had done this a million times before.

Of course, he hadn’t. Whether it was accepting a broken trophy or his insane output – 30 points and 25 rebounds in 28 minutes – Drummond had an exceptional Friday.

But here’s what’s most amazing about Drummond’s breakout performance: It wasn’t a complete anomaly.

Drummond didn’t hog the ball like so many other MVPs in these exhibition games. Though he took 21 shots, 50 percent more than anyone else on his team, half his points came on putbacks. Drummond was simply just beating everyone on both teams to unclaimed balls.

His field-goal percentage in the game (57.1) was actually lower than his season mark (61.1). Though his impressive (for him) 6-for-8 free-throw shooting boosted it his true shooting percentage to 61.2 Friday, he’s bested that in 24 games this season.

His rebounding was more exceptional, but even that wasn’t totally out of line for the NBA’s best rebounder. Based on a quick back-of-the-envelope estimate, Drummond grabbed about 40 percent of available rebounds Friday. As incredible as that is, he had a rebounding percentage of 46.1 in the Pistons’ win over the Heat in December. He grabbed 18 rebounds in that one, his total rising Friday thanks to the faster pace, but the percentage is more meaningful.

This is who Drummond can be on a team that features him prominently. Right now.

He won’t produce numbers like this every night. That’s not reasonable. But he can play like this.

“I had the mindset this year of coming out here … and showing the league that I could play in Sunday’s game and that I’m able to hang with the big guys,” Drummond said after the game.

That is absolutely true. Drummond should have been an All-Star this season, but he left the door too wide open for others to be selected ahead of him.

Soon enough, Drummond will make the big game, and I look forward to it. More than that, I look forward to the time Drummond plays like this frequently for the Pistons.

It could come any day now.


  • Feb 15, 20147:18 pm
    by Windy



  • Feb 15, 20147:31 pm
    by Javell


    Dre wants the league mvp

  • Feb 15, 20148:02 pm
    by hoophabit


    Great size and athletic gifts, and he cares about his place in the game.  If we didn’t learn anything else from the Rookie/Sophomore game, we learned that much.  All he needs is opportunity, time, and some good luck staying healthy.  I wonder what kind of player he’ll be when he’s really grown up?  ;-)

    • Feb 15, 20148:44 pm
      by gmehl


      I like how Chris Webber called him ‘physically intimidating’ at only 20 years of age. You can only imagine how good he’ll be if he adds a baby hook. Seems like he’s got the footwork there and his free throw shooting is get better ever so slightly. The kids a sponge in the learning department so I guess it’s a pity he didn’t get the chance to work with Hakeem. I’m pretty sure Houston put an end to him working with Dre and Moose when they signed him as a big man coach.

      • Feb 15, 20148:57 pm
        by seenable


        His strength is overwhelming on the low block. I think that’s what separates him from a typical athletic big. He’s very athletic, and he’s very strong. I hate to say it, but physically he reminds me a lot of Shaq with the way he can bully people down low.

  • Feb 15, 20148:46 pm
    by pablum


    Nice write-up.”in VAIN”–
    Freep just reporting Barkley blasting unnamed Pistons as “idiots” though “talented,” after our savior’s great performance. Not hard to guess he’s referring Smith and Jennings, or he very well could be just talking out of his ass, which he is famous for ( just ask the police).
    Patrick claimed anyone who is pro Dumars is “delusional.” How does that work if Drum leads our warriors to be contenders? Joe built this team. It likely will contend in the next 1-2 years. Drummond can in fact make this a reality. And when this happens what will all the Joe Sucks crowd be left to say? No really? What will they have to say to the tiny minority of Joe Supporters? We told you Joe Sucked! We told you! While they cheer the very contender he built! (And you call us “delusional”).

    • Feb 15, 20149:41 pm
      by Max


      Hell yeah!  
      There is some really strident editorializing lately acting as if Dumars losing his job is fact when I will believe it when I see it.  
      I’m more than a delusional Joe Dumars supporter and actively dread the day he stops working for the Pistons but I’m hoping it can happen properly in Joe’s old age.  I’m hoping for another 20-30 years of Dumars as GM.  

    • Feb 15, 201411:52 pm
      by Jon


      What have you seen that makes you think they are going to contend in 1-2 years with this roster? It’s going to take more than internal improvement to get this mismatched team there

      • Feb 16, 20146:05 pm
        by pablum


        I already said why and I’ll say it again, we have 3 players who are top 10 at their positions, even if that’s at #10 to sate the critics who think I’m nuts. And if you just read today’s 3-3 on about potential Pistons who will or won’t be all-stars, the established trio of hoop’s writers there all seem very likely to confirm my view. Though I did not know they were so exquisitely prescient as to be able to state with certainty that  Jennings (who just turned 24 in late Sept.) will NEVER be an all-star in the NBA. NEVER. I like to write “never” in caps in the context of this statement because I want to emphasize what it would be like to say this Brandon Jennings face:
        ME: “Brandon. You will NEVER be an all-star in your life in the NBA. Never. Now I know you just turned 24. And I’m sorry I have to b the one to tell you this. But it’s just NEVER going to happen for you. Okay?”
        BJ: (insert comment here.) 

      • Feb 16, 20148:12 pm
        by George


        Jon – ‘What have you seen that makes you think they are going to contend in 1-2 years with this roster?’

        The fact that they are competitive with 90% 23 yr olds and younger and have a mishmash of unproven players on the perimeter and a new PG… I think people are whiffing big time on their current analysis of the Pistons. I laugh out loud at the collective ignorance on the radio, the Pistons are in a very good spot. 

    • Feb 16, 20142:32 am
      by jerrific


      Just because Joe took the obvious gamble, (a player talented enough to be the number one pick but dropped due to dubious question marks about his motor) doesn’t make him a good gm. How can you look at his body of work in the past five seasons and consider yourself a “supporter”? He’s made two obvious draft picks (drummond and monroe) two questionable ones (kcp and knight) and multiple terrible free agent decisions. (Need I even clarify?) Just because one player he drafted has superstar potential (emphasis on potential,  it’s no guarantee), doesn’t mean he’s a good gm. He has a history of bad decisions at this point. He should lose his job based off of those, regardless of how good the players he has drafted may or may not be. 

      • Feb 16, 20149:03 am
        by JYD for Life


        It’s more the losing culture and the fact that the players have been running things that bugs me. 
        Anytime you’re put on hold for two years, that can set a franchise back and it did.  
        I’m probably one of the biggest supporters of Joe, but what’s transpired is really difficult to defend. 
        Every GM is going to make bad moves, so I don’t fault him for the signings or trades.  Those are correctable.  The coaching circus over the past five years makes no sense.  
        it is not having the ability to have a structure or a system that fosters development through coaching and personnel.  
        For example: Throwing Knight to the wolves without a mentor on the coaching staff or in the lockeroom is not something I would consider to be positioning the kid to succeed.  Who was teaching him how to be a PG?  Stuckey and Bynum?  Really? 
        This season was the first year since the Flip staff where I feel like there was a plan to help Knight(then Jennings) by hiring Cheeks (Albeit an unmitigated disaster), Sheed for the bigs and bringing Chauncey back (worked for marketing purposes too).  
        Again, it’s hard to evaluate him from 2008 until Gores took over. He kept the band together too long to appease a dying owner and to reach a sellout streak.  That’s out of his hands.  WhAt wasn’t outside of his control was implementing stability or a system focused on sustainable growth throughout that period. 

        • Feb 16, 20142:16 pm
          by Max


          There is more than the last five years on Dumars’ resume so let’s not forget the ring that came during 6 straight conference finals with playoff appearances on either side of the 6 great years.  I’ve said it before but if Dumars is dropped the Pistons will kind of no longer be the Pistons.   They’ll be more like an expansion team with no identity, cache or brain trust and will be led by some random guy off the street who I have about as much confidence in then any other random guy off the street.  Fire Dumars and the Pistons go down to about zero credibility in the front office and he will join some other team and bring them instant credibility.   Cry about Dumars bad signings all you want but just remember that before Joe was GM the best free agents the Pistons could entice were of the standard of Bidson Dele and Grant Long.   The never attracted free agents of any note who other teams had any interest in until Dumars was the GM–whether Pistons fans realize it or not upper NBA people love him and are rooting for him and players believe him in more than they do the typical GM who never played the game and who they never heard of.  

          • Feb 16, 20147:55 pm
            by JYD for Life

            Max – you are right on a lot of levels… 
            I’m hoping they transition him into a Jerry West-type role after this season.  You’re right that we won’t have that at all if he’s gone.   
            There needs to be a sense of urgency and discipline instilled in this talented group that we have.  It went away under Flip Saunders and hasn’t returned.  Not sure if Joe has gone somewhat soft in his old age, but what has gone on under his watch can’t be validated by the sale of the team and transition of ownership.  
            I’m not ready to kick him to the curb, but things need to change.  

    • Feb 16, 201410:33 am
      by Parsons


      What could you possibly be supporting? The Afflalo or me-myself-and-Iverson trade? His FA signings? The culture of losing and disfunction? His half-assed coaching hires? Even when he has a plan like signing CV and Gordan to flip for Boozer, he didn’t run it by the owner first? A franchise crippling decision if she says no and he didn’t have the brain cells to run it by her first. Its not like she gave any signs she hated basketball why would she say no? This guy is an idiot. He hasn’t had a clue since 04. Even his drafting, which I’d admittingly give a B, he gives them away for nothing but holds on to Daye like a key. Oh and Smith and Jennings, they were stupid decisions. If I had to chose 3 players who I don’t think will ever win a championship my 3 are Melo, Josh Smith, and Jennings. Barkley’s right Jennings and Smith will never get it. I honesty can’t see how Dumars could have messed up worse since 07. Only thing he excels at is keeping his job for reasons no one can fathom.

      • Feb 16, 20142:18 pm
        by Max


        Dumars is the closest thing the Pistons have ever had to Jerry West–both as a player and in the front office–and fans want to get rid of him!?!

      • Feb 16, 20146:23 pm
        by pablum


        I’ll say this again. The Joe Sucks community has turned savaging Joe into high art form. And no doubt he’s made his blame-worthy mistakes (Darko being the greatest in NBA history.). But when all the histrionics fade and the metrics of the situation are assessed one must confront the war you/they have waged Joe appears to be lost. Some study said the avg. cycle from title–to gutter–to title again is at minimum 7 years, give or take a year. Joe’s pulled it off in that time. He calmly and silently has built a team that will contend in 1-2 years. It sure as hell looks that way to me, and to Charles Barkley, who only gives a shit because he sees Andre and the talent that could be. I’ll bet privately, in his more festive moments, Joe has had a fleeting thought about people screaming for his head. Something like, “Now. will. You. Please. shut the. fuck. up.” “Thank you.”#4.

        • Feb 16, 20148:36 pm
          by JYD for Life


          Pablum – Do you find it amusing when people point to Darko as the first thing they hate about Joe.  
          Two things wrong with that: 
          1. The leave out the fact that Darko was going in the top 5 regardless of whether we took him at #2.  
          2.  Drafting any of those other players, specifically Carmelo, Wade or Bosh would have dramatically changed the makeup of the 2004 championship team.  If you draft Carmelo, you move Tayshaun to the bench…If you take Bosh, you probably don’t trade for Rasheed.  Wade wasn’t going to start over Chauncey or Rip at that time.  Also, Larry Brown hates playing rookies.  Always did.  I would much rather have the 2004 banner and to come within one quarter of good basketball of adding a 2005 banner than any of those other guys.  Yes, they would be great on our squad right now, but we can’t rewrite history…nor do I want to.  

          • Feb 16, 201411:37 pm
            by Max


          • Feb 17, 201412:05 am
            by pablum

            Amen, brothers!

          • Feb 17, 20143:13 pm
            by MIKEYDE248

            Darko was the first of those players to get a champion ship ring too and that even includes Lebron.

      • Feb 16, 20148:28 pm
        by JYD for Life


        @Parsons - 
        Are you in favor of the Pistons tanking this season? 
        If so, you’re entirely contradicting yourself…what would you call the past four years?  
        GMs make bad moves all of the time.  Even wonderboy Masai Ujiri traded a draft pick (yes, in this 2014 draft…THE GREATEST DRAFT EVER!!!!!!) and Aaron Afflalo for one season of Andre Iguodala.  Really?  But everyone wants a new GM… 

        • Feb 16, 201410:37 pm
          by Parsons


          Can I first say I didn’t point to Darko I just used examples from the last 5 years. I can forgive Darko. If I say I’m annoyed with the 04 championship and want us to move on I will say the same for Darko. That was 10 years ago. I gave Dumars credit for drafting, he gets a B from me. Its everything else he does that makes me insane.
          If you could explain though I don’t understand what you said about me contradicting myself. I don’t understand what my views on us tanking or not have to do with it. I still don’t think Dumars has done a good job regardless of whether or not we tank. He has built a weirdly built team that really doesn’t make any sense and it shows in our record. For the record though I don’t care if we tank or not but we either have to get better or worse and we have until Thursday to do it. I’ve been wanting us to get Afflalo back so I’m on the fence about tanking.
          I liked that Denver trade. That was courage to go for it all that year. They thought they could resign Iggy but it didn’t work out. They had Gallo and Chandler if Iggy signed elsewhere but unfortunately it just didn’t work out. Also Denver’s GM is the best? I would have went with OKC’s, Miami’s, or Indiana’s but that’s just me. Throw Danny Ainge in their too he’s done a good job in Boston. I understand GM’s make bad decisions but eventually you have to do something right and I haven’t agreed with anything Joe’s done outside the draft in a while. It’s OK to disagree but I just don’t see it. I think he’s terrible.

          • Feb 17, 201412:25 am
            by JYD for Life

            @Parsons – you didn’t bring up Darko specifically, I was more using that as a general statement by most anti-Joe folks.  
            I agree with you that the last 6 years have been bad.  We don’t know all of the facts though.
             The coaching mess and lack of development is my biggest complaint.  
            Gores definitely called for the playoffs and my guess is he wasn’t just sitting back and watching Joe sign Smith…he might have been aggressively asking Joe to get him. 
            We just don’t know.  We also don’t know if the plan was to trade Monroe (who our panel of  resident experts said will never be an all star today).  
            What we do know:
            - this team arguably has more assets than last year’s team  
            - they are .5 games behind a team (we are about to play twice ) for a Playoff spot 
            - they are one of the youngest teams in the league.  Nobody could have expected more than 46 wins (At the very best)   
            It’s frustrating and we all are fans of this team…lets just see what happens.  

    • Feb 16, 20141:51 pm
      by frankie d


      Barkley is exactly right.
      Smith’s team didn’t want him back.  They’d seen his act for too many years.  They went out and got a cheaper, smarter, more efficient – though less talented and spectacular – forward in paul millsap to replace him.  They didn’t even offer Smith a contract.
      Jennings team literally tried to sign a guy to replace him and was only unsuccessful when teague’s team matched their contract offer.  and teague’s team pointedly turned down a sign and trade for jennings because they didn’t want him.  Jennings was out there like an orphan because no one wanted him.  People have grown tired of his act, and no matter how talented, smart GMs know they will never win with a guy like jennings as their lead guard.
      the fact that dumars actually gave up assets to get jennings, in addition to actually signing the guy, shows how brain dead dumars is.
      and yes, both smith and jennings are the idiots that barkley correctly talks about.  just too bad they play for the team i root for.

      • Feb 16, 20142:59 pm
        by Dan Feldman


        You’ve got to let this thing go about the Hawks not offering Smith a contract. It’s insignificant. Teams and players and agents talk before free agency begins. You think the Hawks wouldn’t have loved Smith back for $4 million per year? I don’t know where the cutoff was — and Atlanta obviously wouldn’t have matched Detroit’s offer — but the Hawks probably didn’t want to let Smith go at any cost. They knew his contract desires, and they knew his options, and they didn’t want to pay that much, so they didn’t bother making an offer. If they were completely in the dark about what Smith could get, they probably would have made him an offer. Given what we now know, that offer likely would have been far too low to sign him, but they would have made it. Smith not getting a Hawks offer says something both about their knowledge of his suitors and their desire to keep him, but it does not mean they absolutely wanted to jettison him.

        • Feb 16, 20146:32 pm
          by frankie d


          i’m trying to stick to the known facts while you are encouraging a reliance on pure conjecture.
          fact: atlanta did not offer smith a contract.  according to smith, they did not even engage in any negotiations of any sort.
          fact: in that same article, danny ferry stated this: “Although we both decided it was best to move in different directions…”  he wished smith well.
          so clearly, we know that ferry had decided to move in a different direction.  we also know that the hawks never made a contract offer.
          i am not sure what that says other than that they did not want him back.   he didn’t say that they just couldn’t reach any sort of reasonable compromise.  he didn’t say that they were hoping to be able to work something out.   i’ve yet to see one word from the hawks that indicated that they were willing to bring smith back.  at any price.
          i never used the word jettison, and never would, in that kind of context.  i simply stated known facts: they did not take any actions to retain his services, they stated specifically that they wanted to move on.  period.
          i don’t know what that means other than that they did not want him back.
          what you invite is conjecture about their willingness to pay him a certain amount, or what they knew and what their response possibly was based on.
          you state this:
          but the Hawks probably didn’t want to let Smith go at any cost. They knew his contract desires, and they knew his options, and they didn’t want to pay that much, so they didn’t bother making an offer. If they were completely in the dark about what Smith could get, they probably would have made him an offer. Given what we now know…”
          this is pure conjecture.  and it invites some weird, retrospective awareness of the parties’ negotiating positions, at the point where detroit courted and signed smith.  while atlanta ignored him and signed another player.
          given what we now know…
          well, negotiattions don’t happen that way.  negotiations happen in a certain time and place and that is why some guys get the big bucks to handle that duty for high profile clients.
          it is axiomatic that if one party does not make any offer – not even a nominal, qualifying, throw your hat in the ring offer – that necessarily says that they don’t want to do business with the ignored party.
          if you have any sources – quotes from danny ferry, smith, his agent, anyone – i am more than happy to look at them and consider them.  but absent any credible information about the parties’ intentions, sticking with the known facts is, imho, the best way to proceed.

          • Feb 17, 20141:21 am
            by Dan Feldman

            I have common sense and knowledge of how the NBA works. What’s more plausible to you?

            1. The Hawks wanted to keep Smith for what they deemed the right price. However, they knew how much Smith could get on the open market, had no interest in bidding in that range and moved on without making an offer.

            2. The Hawks had so little interest in keeping Smith, they wouldn’t have even wanted him back on a minimum contract.

          • Feb 17, 20149:37 pm
            by frankie d


            the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

            an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.
            one can call it an expression of common sense or however one may wish to characterize it.  however, it is still, in the end, mere conjecture, absent some evidence that supports this view.
            it is even more suspect because the only evidence available directly contradicts the “common sense” explanation you posit.
            the facts, as i’ve noted already, are what they are.  are there any facts anywhere – an anonymous source, a statement from any concerned party – that supports your conjecture?  perhaps there is such evidence, though i’ve not seen it.  if there is something out there, i am more than happy to consider it.   but in the almost 8 months since the end  of his hawks career, there has been nothing to support the idea that the hawks had any interest in bringing smith back.  at any price.  bottom line: what we know is what both the hawks and josh smith have stated publicly, which is that they made no attempt to resign smith, at any price.
            now, if one wishes to engage in rank conjecture, imho, both parties would benefit from offering the fig leaf of some sort of negotiations between the two parties.  and the fact that neither party can do so, speaks even more strongly in favor of the fact that the hawks basically told smith to not let the door hit him on the way out.
            the hawks could have easily placated the probably sizable josh smith fan contingent in atlanta – he was after all a native son, drafted by his hometown team and he played, often very well, for 9 seasons – by merely arguing that they made some type of attempt to sign him, no matter how minimal.  most teams that do that kind of dance will always at least go through the charade and offer a player a contract they know he will reject.  there is nothing for them to lose by doing so.  and everything to gain, in terms of placating fans.
            smith would avoid the humiliation of being absolutely rejected by his hometown team.  if any exploratory talks, any back door offers, had been made, you can bet that he would at least point to it so he could simply play the role of the negotiating party who rejects an offer he deems not worthy of his value.  as it stands now, he looks like a rejected suitor, utterly tossed out into the cold by his former employer.
            fired, in essense. 
            again, common sense would argue for this type of dance between the parties.  common sense does not argue for both parties to basically say that they never had anything to do with each other, if in fact they did try to at least go through the charade, in some fashion.  
            for instance, if the hawks had been piston-style bad this year, ferry would have been crucified if he’d never even tried to resign smith.  common sense says that he would, at least, have wanted to have the excuse that, well, i tried, but smith’s demands were just too extreme, considering…
            btw, those two choices are not the only options that were available.  again, they could have easily have made a reasonable offer – the one they gave to millsap, for instance – to see how he would react.  
            maybe they would have signed him to a minimum contract, but maybe not.  as we have seen, smith is a player who is insisting on assuming a dominant role on his new team.  that was always an issue in atlanta.  whether the team was better off featuring horford or smith or someone else.  ferry could very easily have decided that the common sensical thing to do was to cut ties completely so that the team would not have smith’s immense shadow hanging over the team, as it moved in a new direction.
            addition by subtraction.
            imho, after watching smith’s act from very close up this year, wanting to avoid dealing with smith on the court, and the disruption he brings, is  very common sensical approach.   i would not blame ferry one bit if he felt that the team would ultimately be better off by simply getting rid of smith, however which way that occurred.

          • Feb 18, 201412:16 am
            by Dan Feldman

            “I’ve been clear that I value Josh as a player,” Ferry told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “He has worked hard this summer and I believe he is going to have great season. I’ve been in contact with his representatives. Josh and his representatives have been clear that he is excited about the direction of the team and wants to be part of the future in Atlanta. That being said, I don’t expect the contract situation to be resolved until next summer.”


            It’s easy to forget now, after they tried so hard to trade him in February, but the Hawks did want to sign Josh Smith to a contract extension before the season started.

            The figure shared with me this week: Atlanta’s offer coming into the 2012-13 campaign was a three-year extension worth in excess of $45 million.

            Yet sources close to the situation say that the extension talks never got too deep because Smith made it clear from the start that he wanted to make it to free agency, which would enable him to sign a longer deal. League rules on extensions precluded the Hawks from offering anything longer than three extra years during the season.


          • Feb 18, 20141:13 am
            by frankie d

            before the season?  seriously?  you are going to point to statements before the season?
            maybe i should have been a bit more specific, though i thought it was clear what time frame we were discussing…you know, the period where smith was a free agent and free to entertain offers from the hawks, the pistons and any other team.  the time when negotiations could happen between the parties..  
            i guess i needed to say “no attempt to resign him at any time over the last year…”.
            my bad.  thought it was perfectly clear that we were discussing whether the hawks attempted to sign free agent josh smith.  i thought that was clear when i mentioned the fact that they went out instead and signed mill sap – which obviously could not have been done prior to this past summer’s free agency period.
            so that is it, hunh…
            one statement from ferry that says absolutely nothing.  though it is one of the most brilliant, politically astute statements i’ve ever seen from a GM.  he says nothing about whether he will attempt to sign smith, whether he actually offered a contract or whether he was even going to attempt to bring him back and resolve the contract situation that way.  it is brilliant because he says absolutely nothing, while saying enough to cover his a@@ if he ever got flack for not wanting to resign smith.
            and then another source that talks about them wanting to bring him back, again, again…before last season.
            let’s use a little bit of common sense, shall we…
            they have an interest in resigning him before his last season in atlanta. maybe he’ll grow up a bit, they imagine.
            but something changes and by midseason, they are ready to dump him in a number of possible trades.  in fact, i recall watching a weary danny ferry being interviewed at about 12 am at the trading deadline explaining why the oh-so-close smith to milwaukee deal fell through, contrary to what everyone had thought was a done deal. 
            so by midseason, they go from possibly resigning to trading him and by the end of the season they don’t even offer him a contract.
            a little common sense tells me that they were tired of his act, had decided that he was never going to change and finally said good riddance.
            at least that is what i get from what occurred.
            but, frankly, none of this really matters.  in that sense you are absolutely correct.  he is where he is now, pistons fans have to deal with him, and his legacy as a piston is being forged right now, on the court.  that is really all that matters.  all that matters is that when this pistons team should be learning how to run their team through monroe and drummond down low, josh smith is chucking up an insane number of 3 pointers at a 23 % clip.
            if the sight of him doing that game after game after game isn’t disturbing, is not cause enough to want his a@@ shipped out f town, i don’t know what could be disturbing to a pistons’ fan.

          • Feb 18, 20143:41 am
            by Dan Feldman

            Use common sense. Which scenario is more likely?

            1. The Hawks offered Smith a $45 million extension before last season, but he turned it down seeking a four-year deal.

            2. Near the trade deadline, the Hawks determined Smith was likely to receive an offer for more than they wanted to spend on him. So, they tried to trade him to get some value in return rather than just letting him walk.

            3. In the summer, the Hawks confirmed Smith could get his desired four-year offer from the Pistons, so they never bothered to make an offer.


            1. The Hawks offered Smith a $45 million extension before last season, but he turned it down seeking a four-year deal.

            2. The Hawks went from being willing to pay Smith $15 million per year to wanting to “dump” him at the trade deadline.

            3. By the end of the season, they wanted him gone so badly, they wouldn’t offer him even a minimum contract.

        • Feb 16, 20148:02 pm
          by JYD for Life


          @Frankie @Gmehl - 
          Were you guys Rasheed Wallace fans? 
          Just checking…if not, this probably won’t mean much to you…
          Season  Team   GP  GS  MINS  FG  3P%  FT%  REB  AST  STL BLK  PTS 



          • Feb 16, 20148:13 pm
            by JYD for Life

            sorry…this chart didn’t paste like I thought it would… 
            The first set of stats is from Rasheed Wallace during the 2004-2005 season when the Pistons made it back to the NBA Finals. 
            The second set of stats is from Josh Smith this year.  
            I’m still not a fan, but someone recently pointed that out to me after I slighted Smith.  We could do worse.  
            So before we kick Joe to the curb, see how this plays out.  We don’t know if the goal was to part ways with Monroe or if Smith will be moved.  Whatever the case, Dumars signed an asset.  
            Look at the upcoming unrestricted free agents: 
            Brand, Humphries, Pierce, Livingston, Deng, Marion, V.Carter, Granger, Pau Gasol, Hawes, Okafor, Lowry, Gortat, Ariza.  
            Randolph, Anthony, James, Bosh and Wade can all opt out – we’re not getting any of them (although Bosh would be a perfect fit next to Drummond).  
            Should Joe have saved his $ for this crop?  Give it some time and let it play out.  
            What were the expectations for this season as it was constructed?  At best, this was a 45 win team and maybe a 5 or 6 seed in the East.  They are .5 games out of the Playoffs right now.
            I get the sense of urgency, but we really do need to take a step back and realize that there are valuable pieces on this team.  They just don’t necessarily fit together.  I’m not even going to address the people who say Smith was a worse signing than Villanueva.  
            As I mentioned above, I have no explanation for the coaching circus that has been going on since 2008 and it is inexcusable.  
            But let’s see what happens in coming days and months to see how this plays out.  Worst case, they don’t renew his contract at the end of the season.  

      • Feb 16, 20145:17 pm
        by gmehl


        @frankie the most frustrating thing is then the Hawks cheaper, smarter, more efficient yet less talented and less spectacular Paul Millsap manages to go out and make the all star team for them which Smith NEVER managed to do. It’s kind of like the basketball gods telling Dumars that if you actually put players in a position to succeed then good things will happen rather than trying to break the mould and do things your own way. Joe is so frustrating because now he does the total opposite to all the savvy moves he used to do. I remember a time when other GMs were afraid to deal with Joe because he almost always seemed to get the better of the outcome. This is why a lot of fans have defended him for so long because the guy was that good and that includes me. I stopped defending Joe in between the BG/CV signings and drafting of Daye and I know a lot of people will say that you defended him way too long.

        • Feb 16, 20148:18 pm
          by JYD for Life


          @gmehl - 
          So you’re willing to fire a guy for two bad signings (which folks could argue that Gordon came off of an impressive year and CV was wildly overpaid for what he did, but there have been worse contracts in this league).  They were terrible, that’s for sure.  
          That was also during the grace period after a hell of a run to 6 straight Eastern Conference Finals which included two trips to the NBA Finals and one championship.  
          I can see giving up on him now and especially if you are not happy about the coaches, but just for two bad signings and one bad draft pick? 

          • Feb 16, 20149:29 pm
            by gmehl

            JYD are you f***ing kidding me. Don’t sound as if I am some staunch ‘sack Dumars now’ supporter. It’s not just those two signings its been everything since then. In case you missed it I said that I ‘stopped defending‘ him between the BG/CV signings and drafting of Daye not that I was asking him to be fired then. I like many was willing to give Joe one last shot to spend money in free agency but we all know how that has turned out. The move that has irked me the most was the BG/2014 1st rounder for Maggette. Somewhere along the line Joe has lost his ability to pull savvy moves and fix his mistakes with now just compounding them.

          • Feb 16, 201410:27 pm
            by JYD for Life

            @gmehl - 
            thats what surprised me…It certainly came across that way in your posts above.  From everything I’ve ever gathered from your past posts, I respect your opinion, so don’t take it as a slight. 
            It makes sense that you’re upset with that trade.  However, what was adding a late lottery or mid first round pick going to do to this roster?  They’re already one of the youngest teams in the league. 
            With a mandate to make the Playoffs, this team did not need another 19 year old on the roster.  Even if that meana taking a pass on the “best draft” in a decade, should you be inclined to believe that.   Also, with the clock ticking on Drummond’s contract, can they really have another losing season Without him developing a wandering eye? 
            We don’t know how the Smith and Jennings acquisitions will look in 8 months.  You’re right that it isn’t ideal right now, but there are pieces in place which either could propel the Pistons to the top 5 in the east or could be used to get the right pieces in a trade.  Smith has value in the league, as does Monroe.  
            The CV and Gordon signings were horrendous, but correctable.  Three bad draft picks out of all of his selections is pretty solid.  
            I get the frustration and have a great deal of empathy for you…but I think this situation is closer to turning around than you think.  
            The only thing I can’t figure out is the coaching mess.  We need to find out who is actually hiring these guys.  

          • Feb 16, 201410:37 pm
            by JYD for Life

            Also – what were your expectations coming into this season? 
            I had them winning at the most, 46 games. I thought 38-40 on the low end, which should have been enough to sneak into the playoffs.  
            At 22-30 and just changing coaches, who’s to say they can’t finish with 37 wins and the 8th seed? 
            They have underperformed, but not drastically.  
            The pick is top 8 protected, so even in the worst case, it’s not like they are going to miss out on wiggins or Parker. 

          • Feb 17, 20141:04 am
            by gmehl

            First of all I apologise if I came across snappy before and in me replies below to all your questions.
            What were your expectations coming into this season?
            Obviously expectations were a lot higher than 22-30 as I was silly enough to purchase NBA League pass (LOL). After so many teams started stripping down there rosters especially in the east I really though 41-41 was realistic.
            The CV and Gordon signings were horrendous, but correctable.
            These signings were far from correctable that is unless you call packaging our 2014 draft pick with Gordon’s silly contract rather than amnestying him. I would rather of had the extra season and a half of Gordon on our team than just giving away our 2014 first rounder for what… Josh Smith?? Joe should’ve either amnestied BG or CV or just rode out there contracts. That is the ONLY way to ride out a bad free agent signing unless you can find a dumb GM to trade with.
            “They have underperformed, but not drastically”
            I disagree with you on this comment because if they had of at least won half of those 12-13 games where they led by double figures go into the 4th quarter they’d be pretty close to a .500 ball club with a chance to get 3rd spot in the east. At the end of the day if you’re not at least a .500 ball club then you’re a losing organisation. Record aside I just want to see this team start playing 4 quarters of good fluid basketball and the front office start showing some direction and a plan all us fans can see and get behind.
            Finally here is a link to all of Joe’s transactions over the years and as you can see good old Joe went Jekyll and Hyde on us. I am not a Joe hater but I’d lie if I didn’t admit that I think his time as piston GM is up. The guy has clearly gone stale in Detroit and needs a fresh start elsewhere.

          • Feb 17, 20141:07 am
            by gmehl

            I was mean’t to write “the ONLY way to correct a bad free agent signing unless you can find a dumb GM to trade with is to ride out the contract”

        • Feb 16, 20148:23 pm
          by frankie d


          the fact that milsap makes the all star team is just rubbing salt into the wound.  i how nice would millsap look in a detroit uniform, as a big guy off the bench.  with none of the drama associated with smith and his need to be a megastar who deserved a max contract.
          i know that i felt that dumars deserved a shot at fixing the mess he’d made.  
          he got that shot this summer.  but instead of fixing the team and putting it on a path that will lead to a bright future, he’s done the complete opposite
          signing smith was worse than signing gordon.  signing jennings was worse than signing CV. imho.
          at the end of the day, the fallout from this past summer will be catastrophic – missing the playoffs, losing the lottery pick, dumars fired, another coaching hire, monroe very possibly traded – and years from now, fans will wonder how the heck it happened.
          they will wonder how and why dumars decided NOT to build his team around a franchise talent like drummond, but instead brought a guy like smith – who clearly sees himself as the franchise cornerstone like lebron or chris paul or dwight howard or durant.  that is why he sees no problem in jacking up shots from anywhere on the court.  this is HIS team now, and it is geared around him and his talents and whims.  
          if smith had any brains at all, he would have come into detroit, said, i will do whatever it takes to win – including coming off the bench – and talked about how he’d finally gotten his money and didn’t need to prove anything to anyone.  a josh smith who came off the bench and rebounded and ran the court and played defense and blocked shots would be an incredible tool to have, especially on a team built around talented young guys like drummond and monroe.
          instead, smith has obviously seen this as his chance to prove, once and for all, that he is every bit as good as lebron, et al, and that he actually did deserve the max contract he argued he deserved.
          what a freaking disaster this has become, and drummond’s performance the other night just showed how different things could have been if joe d had constructed a team around drummond’s talents, instead of just giving free license to smith to run amok on the court and do whatever the heck he wants to do.

          • Feb 16, 201410:53 pm
            by JYD for Life

            Ok…how would our roster look with Millsap?  Do you honestly believe he would have signed here to be a 6th Man?  Probably not, so you still have to look at moving Monroe and the roster is still incomplete.  
            Don’t read too much into the all-star appearance for Millsap and Smith never having one.  
            There are a ton of politics involved with selecting the benches for these squads.  Smith most likely doesn’t have one because he’s somewhat of a malcontent at times.  He’s not a guy who politics and lobbied for a spot.  Not saying that Millsap did, but unless he ends up with a few more appearances, this season is relatively insignificant.   Keep in mind he was overlooked in free agency by a lot of teams and has been playing as the only competent big on Atl for a majority of the season.  
            Smith may or may not have been the right choice and I think we will have to wait to see what happens, but I can tell you that we would be sitting pretty as the 5 or 6 seed this year with Millsap instead of Smith…and probably in that same spot for a few years with him.  
            We also don’t know if Millsap would have signed with us.  He saw a PF slot open next to Horford in Atl. He could clearly see Drummond and Monroe here.  
            While Millsap would have been my pick as well(i’d be fine if they moved smith tomorrow), I don’t think it’s as bad as you let on.  

          • Feb 16, 201411:24 pm
            by frankie d

            if the team was going to sign a tweener to play next to drummond/monroe, millsap is obviously the better choice.  
            most free agents follow the money.  detroit could have beaten atlanta’s offer and still saved a ton of money over what they paid smith.
            millsap as a 6th man?
            he played that way his entire career.  if he’d been able to get starter type money, my guess is that he would not have cared if he was coming off the bench.  most guys only care about the whole starter/bench distinction because of the impact it has on their paycheck.  if detroit gave him starter money, and more money than atlanta was offering, i doubt very seriously if he would have been turned off at the prospect of not starting.  one of the real distinctions between smith and millsap is that millsap seems to have a real handle on his ego.  that is certainly not one of smith’s strong points.
            bottom line is that millsap is cheaper, a better player and a better fit on just about any team and especially a team like detroit’s that doesn’t need an idiot with an inflated sense of his own value trying to take over his new team.  the idea that anyone would try to rationalize why smith is a better signing than millsap would have been is hilarious.  go over to basketball reference and just look at the hard cold numbers.  that should be enough to wake anyone out of a stupor.

          • Feb 16, 201411:53 pm
            by JYD for Life

            Again, I’m not disagreeing with you. 
            We just don’t have all of the facts.  Maybe Millsap wasn’t looking for money, but wanted to start.  He got both in Atlanta.  You don’t know if we would have offered him 10m per year that he would have come.  You just referenced his character (which I vehemently AGREE with you that his personality is a better fit with our young core). However, if he’s that standup of a guy, maybe he truly wanted to start.  He’s also a southern guy and maybe Atlanta felt right for him.  
            So before calling someone an idiot for passing up on a guy, maybe we need to hear the whole story.  
            Also – signing Smith was not worse than Gordon.  You could dump Smith right now for expiring contracts and wouldn’t have to give up a 1st rounder to do so.  
            i do have to ask you – were a fan of Rasheed Wallace while he was a Piston? 

          • Feb 17, 20142:24 am
            by frankie d

            Yes i was a sheed fan.  But what does he have to do with smith?  He was the very antithesis of smith.  Be was a very smart player whose main “problem” was his reluctance to assert himself and assume a star’s role.  Here in portland his coaches wanted him to shoot more.
            If smith had half sheed’s BB IQ he’d be one of the top 5 players in the league.
            and the smith signing is so much worse because of how it takes tbe focus away from the team’s 2 young stars and makes them into bit or disposable pieces.  As i have said before we wont know the full, negative impact for a while.

          • Feb 17, 201410:12 pm
            by JYD for Life

            Frankie – I’m not sure why, but I’m unable to post a chart.  It’s showing Sheed’s 2004-05 stats compared to Smith’s numbers this year.  Extremely similar. Was it ok for Sheed to shoot 30% from 3 and just over 40% overall FG? 
            I felt the same way as you and dug a little deeper.  Their lines would be exact if you eliminated Smith’s Nobember stats (where he was adjusting and yes, shooting way too many 3s).  
            Im a Sheed fan too…the difference really is only in their personalities.  Sheed was a little more loveable.

  • Feb 15, 20148:59 pm
    by seenable


    I look forward to the time when Drummond can play on a team with such a wide-open style of play. That’s what was so encouraging to me about yesterday’s performance from him. Get him on a team that spreads the floor, and let him flat-out dominate down low.

  • Feb 15, 20149:28 pm
    by Seriouslynow


    once Drummond learns rotations and develops as a rim protector he could be shaq 2.0 

    • Feb 17, 20147:28 pm
      by T Casey


      Shaq 2.0? He’d need to develop some kind of post game for that. He’s got a long way to go just to become Dwight Howard 2.0.

  • Feb 15, 201410:02 pm
    by jamesjones_det


    For giving what looked like half an effort he looked darn good at times but I hated how lazily he was getting up and down the court and allowing easy baskets.  Reminded me too much of watching a Pistons game.
    P.S.  I 100% agree with Sir Charles comments after the game though, it may be the first time that’s every happened but I agree the Pistons are loaded with “idiots” and they are never going to win with this squad.

    • Feb 16, 20144:34 pm
      by Gordbrown


      Don’t let the door hit yr ass on the way out, bandwagoner that you are. Good riddance.

      • Feb 16, 20147:11 pm
        by gmehl


        Ha ha is there any such thing as a Detroit Piston bandwagoner?? If there was surely they would’ve jumped off already.

      • Feb 17, 201411:37 am
        by jamesjones_det


        WTF are you talking about?  Just because I don’t think they can win with this crap filled team doesn’t mean i’m a “bandwagoner”.
        Maybe you should stop being an ASS-sumption banger…

  • Feb 15, 201411:57 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)


    Love Drummond but he doesn’t Dominate like he could because he plays like a guard…shaq dunked everything….Drummond does not…on fast breaks if a guy is under the basket Drummond tries fancy lay up…guys like shaq and Webber were going to Dunk you through the rim with the ball…

  • Feb 16, 201412:08 am
    by Adam


    Let’s not forget the players he probably grew up idolizing were Lebron Melo etc not like shaq who had Hakeem  Ewing and robinson to emulate I’m sure with time and coaching he will start to dunk everything in sight 

  • Feb 16, 20147:57 am
    by Ryank


    Need a better team record before he should see individual honors.  

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