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3-on-3: Future Pistons All-Stars

Modeled after ESPN’s 5-on-5, three of us will answer three questions about a Pistons-related topic. Please add your responses in the comments.

1. Andre Drummond will make at least five All-Star Games in his career.

Dan Feldman, PistonPowered: Fact. I feel a little uncomfortable picking any player whose never made an All-Star Game to make five, but Drummond is just that promising. And really, he’s on an OK track. Of the 120 five-time All-Stars in NBA history, just fewer than half made an All-Star Game in their first two seasons. Two-thirds, though, made one by their third season, so Drummond better get going.

Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered: Fact. For Drummond, getting to the first one will be the hardest part. The Pistons can help him achieve that by, you know, not being the least interesting team in the league and not underachieving, hopefully starting next season. Drummond’s game is so productive and so exciting and crowd-pleasing that once he gets a little attention, it’s pretty easy to see he’s going to be a fixture in All-Star games.

Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press: Fact. Let’s face it; Drummond is probably playing at an All-Star level right now. Averages of 13.1 points, 13 rebounds and 1.9 blocked shots definitely look the part. In February, those averages jump to 16.1, 14.7 and 2.3, and he leads the NBA with 5.4 offensive rebounds per game. And since this is for you stat heads, he is grabbing nearly 18% of available offensive rebounds and has a PER of 22.4. Looks like a perennial All-Star to me – as long as he keeps improving and his teams are competitive.

2. Fact or Fiction: Greg Monroe will make an All-Star Game in his career.

Dan Feldman, PistonPowered: Fiction. The crop of quality big men has grown in the last few years, and Monroe has not progressed as greatly as hoped – pushing him down the pecking order just a little bit. Still, he’s in the fringe range, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ultimately became an All-Star. Playing for a better team, especially if he remains in the Eastern Conference, would help his case. And yes, that team could be the Pistons.

Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered: Fact. Monroe’s already been decently close once, back before the East did away with the center position. He doesn’t have the athletic advantages Drummond has that draw attention to his game, but Monroe is an efficient offensive player, a strong rebounder and it’s not a stretch to envision him putting up All-Star numbers for a season or three on a more balanced roster down the road.

Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press: Fiction. I think there is room for growth here. Those that think Moose has reached his ceiling are goofy. But I am beginning to wonder if Monroe will ever be the main or second option on a good team. If he’s just a very good No. 3, don’t see him making an All-Star team.

3. Fact or Fiction: A current Piston besides Drummond and Monroe will make a future All-Star Game in his career.

Dan Feldman, PistonPowered: Fiction. The only current Piston who has ever been an All-Star is Chauncey Billups, and he’s definitely not making it back. Josh Smith’s best days are behind him, and he never made it in his prime, though I can’t completely rule out a late breakthrough. Brandon Jennings has the talent to work his way onto the periphery of the All-Star discussion and is young enough to do so, but considering he’s not even in the discussion at this point, that seems like a longshot. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, because his age creates high variance for future career arcs, might have the best chance. I just don’t see him reaching that level, though.

Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered: Fiction. There are only three real candidates, and all have issues. Josh Smith is not getting younger, he has yet to make one and he’s having a poor season. Time is running out for him. Brandon Jennings is certainly dynamic enough to envision as an All-Star if he ever figures out how to play under control, but the East is pretty loaded with young star guards — Derrick Rose when healthy, Kyrie Irving and John Wall are all significantly better than Jennings right now and all are also still young enough that improvement is not out of the question (with a major caveat being the impact of Rose’s injuries as an unknown). My wildcard would be Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. He hasn’t played very well this season and he’s falling further and further down the rotation, but his defense has shown great potential and if his three-point shooting ever comes around as advertised, he’ll be a legit three and D scoring wing in a conference where the shooting guard position is largely unproven behind the aging Dwyane Wade. KCP is truly a longshot, but there’s still a slim chance he could develop into an Arron Afflalo-type player. Afflalo didn’t make the team this year, but his numbers are certainly All-Star worthy. He represents a nice best-case for KCP.

Vince Ellis, Detroit Free Press: Fiction. Too many great point guards for Brandon Jennings too make it. If Josh Smith didn’t make it in earlier seasons with the Hawks, it’s probably not happening in the future. The only other guy with a shot would be rookie Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. I think he will be a good player in the future, but nothing close to an All-Star.


  • Feb 16, 20141:34 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)


    If the Pistons were..500 team or even 4-5 games under. 500 Drummond would have had Millsap spot….barring injury or major set back…..

    • Feb 16, 20147:36 pm
      by George


      Monroe will likely make an all-star game. He’s is dedicated, has a great mindset and moves.. with a little patience I can see his game taking a couple steps forward. 

      Imagine if Monroe just made 2 jumpers a night? He’s not as far away from being a 20 ppg player as people think. I think he will one day have a fairly reliable 18 footer. 

  • Feb 16, 20142:32 pm
    by Max


    Drummond was snubbed big time this year.
    Also, not sure why Smith’s worse years are behind him.  I do realize he’s having his worst year since his rookie season but I think it’s mostly about taking too many threes and not understanding how he fits into this jumbo frontline more than it is any actual decline.  Further, as I pointed out in another thread, Barkley averaged 1.9 threes a game for his career while shooting a worse pct than Smith but when he played with Hakeem for the first time threw up 3.9 threes a game.  Smith is having a similar reaction to playing with Drummond and Monroe and his career average 3 point shooting attempts have gone from an acceptable 1.5 to a crazy 3.5.   Barkley calmed down in his second year with Hakeem and shot 1.2 threes a game and I’m hoping Smith can similarly figure it out.  If so, his best years may not be behind him.  I think the biggest obstacle Smith has right now to making an all star team is that he plays in a conference with James, Melo and George. 

    • Feb 16, 20147:39 pm
      by George


      Drummond was not snubbed. He was a bad defender on a bad team with great rebounding and modest scoring. He’s going to be great and he’s taken it up a notch lately, but he didn’t deserve it this year. 

  • Feb 16, 20143:18 pm
    by pablum


    I call “Preposterous Rhinoceros.” Brandon Jennings just turned 24 in Sept. If the Pistons were a very achievable 10 games over .500 right now, with his current numbers, he’d likely be a all-star reserve, and Moose wold too. It is simply a Preposterous Rhinoceros that you 3 would confidently declare that this kid who just turned 24 ,with his obvious talents, and resume — read his wikipedia page for a just turned 24 year old! — will “NEVER” — NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. — make an NBA all-star game. The wing-seraphed Preposterous Rhinoceroses are flying around all you for saying this silly thing.  

    • Feb 16, 20143:57 pm
      by Max


      So true.  People act like veterans don’t retire, those in their prime don’t decline and young players don’t reach their prime.  There is enormous difference between saying Jennings could be a perenial all star and just a player who makes it a time or two.  Michael Adams, BJ Armstrong, John Starks, Tyrone Hill and a couple of dozen more at least have made all star games while not exactly being all star caliber and Brandon Jennings is more talented and had accomplished more by 24 than the lot of players I just named. 

      • Feb 16, 20144:40 pm
        by Huddy


        I don’t think they are acting like no one retires.  It’s not like the writers claim Jennings won’t make it because Dwayne Wade will play until he is 50.  Irving, Wall, Rose are all in the same age range and while older guard will retire others will be improving.  Bj is young and might still do it, but if hes been in the league 4 seasons is there some reason why MCW, Knight, holiday, Oladipo, etc. don’t get the same consideration to possibly get there.  If there are already around 3 guards in the same age range better than Jennings and a crop of younger or same range players that could improve to all star level and future rookies it is not at all unfair to assert that Jennings has a long shot chance.

        • Feb 16, 201411:29 pm
          by Max


          I’m ok with saying it’s a bit of a long shot but team’s records factor heavily into these things too.  If two years from now the Pistons are in first or second place at the break and other player’s teams are struggling, Jennings could well be in line.  Also, injuries reguarly thin the crop.  We don’t know if Rose will ever be that good again and Wall could get traded to the west.  The light might also go off in Jennings’ head one day as hits his prime.  Much, much stranger things have happened.

          • Feb 17, 20147:19 am
            by Huddy

            I would personally stick with long shot.
            i think the team record debatably factors in.  Elite or sometimes just flashy talent can win over that in the case of a player like Kyrie making it, but a hard working all around guy like Milsapp probably is aided by leading his team to success despite losing Horford(as I mentioned below though if record was really Key Stepehnson should really be there).
            all the other factors are equal for all players so I don’t really consider them specifically to defend Jennings.  If wall could get traded is a factor, then so is Lillard could get traded or Paul could get traded, etc.  Injuries could thin the crop, or Jennings could be one of the ones injured.  That’s why IMO if guard remain the same he is already behind Wall, Irving, Rondo, Rose, Lowry(this season and not for the last few like the others) and there are others with  potential that could pass him so I give him a long shot due to injury possibilities and that click you mentioned where he suddenly gets it all around.

          • Feb 17, 20145:41 pm
            by CityofKlompton

            Not to mention starters are selected by fan vote. Given a scenario where Jennings is one of the tops PGs in the east, he will still have a steep incline to climb before getting a selection. A player with bigger star power, though injured or simply not as good as they once were, could still be voted into the starting lineup, thus bumping Jennings down a spot by default.
            Calling Jennings a long shot is as much (if not more) about the depth of the field and the format of the selections than his pure level of talent.

          • Feb 17, 20147:28 pm
            by Huddy

            Exactly,  for the next couple years D wade, D will, and Joe Johnson will compete based on their past resume alone because it’s a fan vote.  Just look at Kobes votes from this year.

    • Feb 16, 20144:44 pm
      by Huddy


      You know John Wall and kyrie irving aren’t on teams above .500 and made it and Lance StepHenson is on the top team in the east and was snubbed…the teams record doesn’t have that much to so with it.

      • Feb 16, 20146:56 pm
        by pablum


        (1) Who said ANYTHING ABOUT IT BEING “unfair.” I said it was a “preposterous rhinoceros” of a statement. A “silly” statement. I defend my claim of silly. Here’s the challenge to the trio of writers, including the beat writer for the Freep. Yes, I throw down the gauntlet to VInce Ellis. Good sir, with your access, would you go to Brandon Jennings teammates and tell them of your opinion here? Exhort their audience. Then declare: “This man! This man you call Brandon Jennings. This 24 year old point guard who is your starting point guard — THIS MAN WILL NEVER BE AN ALL-STAR IN HIS LIFE!!” “So say I , Vince Ellis, in print on Piston Powered!”
        I’m not a prognosticator, certainly not when it comes to a young and talented pro hoopster’s life, but I’ll bet Moose, Drum, Smith et al would be dig at Vince in response with words that make silly look silly.

        • Feb 16, 20148:04 pm
          by pablum


          Vince, I just want you to know I tweeted what you wrote here to Brandon Jennings. I think the kid’s a star and so deserved to know that the beat writer for the Freep went on record saying he’d never make an all-star game in his entire career. I’m not trying to be an ass-hole, we’re both Detroiter’s, so you know I’m just getting his back, because that’s how we are here in the “D” — as you well know. So, will you let us know here how the Piston players reacted to your opinion, now that Brandon knows and all?

        • Feb 16, 201410:27 pm
          by Huddy


          Your distinction between unfair and preposterous doesn’t add anything to the conversation.
          So is he better than wall Irving and rose?  Is his potential definitely better than Holiday, Stephenson, Lowry, etc?  Do you have any reply to your assertion that the teams record is the reason for the snub despite other players on worse teams getting in and players on better teams not getting in?
          You aren’t responding to the logical reason behind the writers belief that he probably won’t make an all star team and instead are trying to use some long winded comment to call out a writer and say what they wrote they wouldn’t say In real life.  You don’t think Vince would tell Jennings to his face he won’t be an all star?  It’s not as if this is something he wrote privately and you opinion of what he would or wouldn’t do in a hypothetical situation is unrelated the the actual points being made.
          i am sure Jennings is as concerned with your tweet as he is with Vince’a opinion of his All Star hopes.

          • Feb 16, 201411:52 pm
            by pablum

            (1) I didn’t make any distinction between “unfair” and “preposterous”, but I will now. To me, if the statement was “unfair” to Jennings it would have at least some element of merit to it that would justify a defense, in the sense that a real wrong was occurring that needed to be addressed. But that’s not how I see this at all. However qualified the writers’ responses, the lead question was black&white, “fact” or “fiction.” Would any other Piston, other than Drum/Moose, make an All-Star team in his “CAREER.” I repeat, “CAREER.” That’s not a question of merit as it applies to a just-turned 24 year old B. Jennings with what he has so far accomplished in his young pro career. It’s a “preposterous” speculation, with many substantial variables involved beyond anyone’s capacity to speculate. No one on this planet can possibly know if B. Jennings will or will not make merely a single all-star game in his entire career. Yet all the writers said “Fiction.” He won’t. It’s not an “unfair” statement. It’s a “preposterous” and “silly” statement.”
            (2) Dana Barros, B.J. Armstrong, Jameer Nelson, John Starks, and fuckin’ Mo williams ALL made all-star teams. Can anyone who wishes to be taken seriously say Brandon Jennings, at the age of 24(!), will NEVER play in an all-Star game — when these other players did??? Anyone? Seriously? Hence the statement is “preposterous.”
            (3) I already said I think Jennings is top 10. I think he’s 3rd/4th best in East. (with Wall the clear#1). And I think he’s 4th/5th/6th in the West. Which leaves a couple of spots to debate that would still make him top #10.   
            (3) And no — absolutely fucking not! — would Vince Ellis ever dare to walk up to Brandon Jennings right now and tell him to his face that he will never make an all-star game in his career. Never will happen. Why? Because Ellis would not want to look like a fucking idiot. We’ve already seen with Mo Cheeks what happens when people think of you that way… 

          • Feb 17, 201412:26 am
            by Parsons

            Jennings is 3rd or 4th in the east? Really? I counted 8 I’d rather have. I think it’s a long shot he makes it just on that. He’s #9 right now in my opinion, counting Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo. John Wall, Kemba Walker, Deron Williams, Kyrie Irving, Kyle Lowry, and Michael Carter-Williams are the others. I honestly believe he has this contract to make it. After that I think he’ll sign on to a top team and play off the bench. He just isn’t efficient. I don’t care how many points or assists he gets. He shoots below 40%, has no basketball IQ, and doesn’t play defense. He scores a lot because he shoots too much. I know you love this guy but I don’t see it. I won’t say he’ll 100% never make an all star game but I’ll go as high as 90%. Even if he does I think it’ll take a few injuries to get him in. Besides this is all just speculation made by bored people for people I don’t see why your getting so worked up over it.

          • Feb 17, 20147:08 am
            by Huddy

            @pablum if you have a problem with subjects requiring speculation where multiple future variable are in play you might as well give up on reading anything about sports.  you could say that about almost anything in sports.  Do you have a problem with the writers all agreeing Drummond will probably make it? If you really think about it that ignores the variables of a career ending injury and the addition of 3-4 Kareem level players next year.  you are included in “anyone” so this subject is “impossible” for you to speculate on as well i guess.  Everyone will just have to say “i can’t say because it is in the future and I can speculate future variables”.  The 3 on 3 is based on an Espn format where writers have to pick fact or fiction so by your standard either answer is wrong anyway.
            3. This point is still baseless and unrelated.  you act like Ellis’ opinion of Jennings all star hopes would be a career running comment.  Jennings would laugh it off as all athletes do when they respond to media criticism and everyone (but you apparently) would go about there day.

          • Feb 17, 201411:26 am
            by pablum

            Huddy — I don’t have a problem at all with with you’re saying at all about “speculation” here.
            I do have a huge fucking problem with with speculating that a just turned 24 year-old Brandon Jennings will NEVER make an All-Star game his ENTIRE CAREER. And this problem is magnified by untold exponential powers when players  like Dana Barros (who played for us!), B.J. Armstrong — (NEVER as good as Jenings), Mo Williams (NEVER as good as Jennings), and Jameer Nelson (NEVER as good as Jennings) and John Starks (NEVER as good as Jennings) ALL mad All-Star Teams.

          • Feb 17, 201411:50 am
            by Huddy

            You have a problem with speculation that you don’t agree with, not the use of speculation to determine ones opinion in general.  If you believe what you wrote about preposterous speculation that is impossible because of how many variables are involved then it is preposterous for you to believe Jennings will make an all star game.
            the fact that lesser players (in your opinion) have made all star games doesn’t prove anything but possibility.  It doesn’t prove likelihood and ignores the fact that deserving players have not been given the honor as well.
            none of the writers mentioned that anyone who believed Jennings will make an All star game was a preposterous fucking idiot so maybe you could extend the same courtesy as it is impossible for you to prove your point anyway with all the future variables involved.  

          • Feb 17, 201412:17 pm
            by pablum

            (1) I never personally attacked or called any of the writer’s “fucking idiots.” That would make me a fucking idiot. I said the statement that B. Jennings will never make an all-star game in his “[entire] CAREER” was “silly” and “Preposterous.” And it patently is, for very rational reasons I’ve already stated.
            (2) I only used the term “fucking idiot” to speculate why Vince Ellis would never — right now/this season — go to B. Jenning’s face and tell him personally that he’ll never make an all-star game in his career. And I stand by this speculation. Vince Ellis WON’T do this. And he won’t do it because it would make him look like a “fucking idiot” to Brandon Jennings and, I’m sure, several other Pistons and coaches. Do you think differently? Really? I’m asking? Do you think if Vince Ellis personally said this to B. Jennings that he would not take this as anything but a supreme insult.(!) Honestly??
            (3) I respect all the writer’s here, their work (which is appreciated!), their knowledge of the game, and most of all, their passion for our beloved Piston team. But, hell yes, if they say something I think is absurd, preposterous, silly — like a just turned 24 year-old B. Jennings will never make an all-star game in his ENTIRE CAREER — then I have the right to slam them for it. Don’t I? Especially, in this case, because none of them would ever say this directly to B. Jennings. Why do you think that is Huddy? I mean, am I wrong? (They detest me and will no longer respond to anything I write, so why don’t you ask them.)

          • Feb 17, 20141:13 pm
            by Huddy

            Vince Ellis won’t be going to Jennings and discussing this random question from a fan site because that is a stupid hypothetical situation with no reason to happen.  No I do not believe that he or anyone would look like a fucking idiot for expressing their honest opinion…I would find it idiotic if he were to lie to placate a professional athlete’s ego.  You certainly didn’t all call anyone a fucking idiot, you just asserted that expressing their honest opinion publicly in person would make them look like one.
            You list all the players that you think are worse than Jennings that have made All star games as proof he is likely to.  As I stated that doesn’t make him more likely to it only points out that it is possible for someone below Jennings ability level (in your opinion) to make an all star game…possibility not likelihood….any reason why this is untrue?
            I think you have a right to do whatever you want.  I think it is more logical to defend your claims by citing specific existing all stars that BJ would surpass with logical reasoning, or to express why others in his age range won’t get better than Jennings, or to find historical comparisons with other players that have been as poor at decision making, defense, shooting efficiency and have turned it around 5 seasons in to be an all star.  Those are all worthwhile discussions.  Typing 24 years old in capital letters over and over is not a solid defense of any of the reasonable reasons why Jennings would not make an All Star game.
            Kyrie Irving has established himself in the all star circle and is 21, John Wall has done the same and is 23
            Lance Stephenson is 23 averaged 14ppg 5 apt (at SG) and 7 rpg with 50% fg shooting on the Eastern conference’s best team and clearly had a case to be in this year and there isn’t reason to believe he cannot keep that up.
            Kyle Lowry and Rondo are 27 (only a couple of years out of BJ’s age range) and have both reached this level of success with little reason to believe they will get worse over the next few years.
            Derozan is 24 scores 22+ per game has improved production every year and is a high flyer with more of the flash factor that many like to see in the game (this is partially a popularity contest of course).
            Michael Carter Williams is already producing at almost the same rate as Jennings(1.5 less Assits per game and more rebs/stls per game) and is a rookie
            Derrick Rose – better player same age range with obvious injury concerns
            Oladipo, 21 high potential and already a 15, 5 and 5 guy (Kemba Walker similar story 18 and 5 guy is 23 has potential)
            popularity will keep Wade and Joe Johnson in the mix a couple of years (same for Deron Williams if he gets his nagging injuries together)
            So we have plenty of players around jennings magical age of 24 with similar potential or that have already exceeded Jennings, we have a few years from older but more established (or popular) guards, and we have any Rookies that enter the game playing at a high level.  All of this on top of the same chance of injury to BJ that all players have.  It makes perfect sense to assume Jennings will not make an All Star game.  Being 24 with the potential to get better is great, but there are other early 20 year olds with similar potential as well as new ones entering the scene every year.  The fact that Jennings might have another 10+ years in the league doesn’t make the assertion that he won’t make an all star team preposterous.  The Majority of players who make it to an All Star game do so before they are 27-28 years old.  After that it is less and less likely for Jennings to do so. His window isn’t really now until he is 35 just because he is 24.  If he is going to make it it will have to be in the next couple/few years while there is already a lot of competition for guys to take those all star spots. 

          • Feb 17, 20142:36 pm
            by pablum

            (1) You didn’t answer my key question, namely, “How do you think Brandon Jennings would respond to Vince Ellis (or Dan, Patrick, Tim, et al) claim that he will never make an all-star game in his “[entire] CAREER”? How Huddy? You think he wouldn’t take that as a supreme insult?
            This is why Vince (et al) would never say this to his face — they know it would prohibitively be taken as an Insult. That’s it. It has nothing to do with “hypotheticals” as you said.
            But, hey, like I said ask them yourself and see what they say. I’ll ask them, but they won’t answer. BTW, here’s an unrelated by very appropriate tweet from Brandon on this:


            BRANDON JENNINGSVerified account?@BrandonJennings

            Shoulda never put us on, I’m only 24

          • Feb 17, 20142:49 pm
            by Huddy

            another fantastic job avoiding having to use any real defense to the real points made.
            if this is no longer a debate about why or why not a player would be in an all star game then goodbye.  I have zero interest in how Jennings would take it.  I’m certain he believes he could be a perennial all star and that has zero impact in my opinion on the subject.  Id be surprised and even disapointed if he didn’t have all the confidence in the world in himself, that is unrelated to this topic.  Have you ever heard a reporter as a member of an under dog team if they can win the game and have the player say no?  Of course not, does that mean I would pick them to win?  Of course not.  Jennings expressed all the confidence in the world that he and the bucks would beat the Heat last year in the playoffs and his confidence is admirable and noted, but did not influence my opinion about who was going to win that series.  This isn’t the Brandon Jennings fan forum so excuse everyone who isn’t considering his feelings when trying to have an objective discussion about basketball.  

          • Feb 17, 20143:10 pm
            by pablum

            (1) I already posted (on another thread) 5 references from ESPN, SI, SLAM, DIME and Yahoo on why I think Jennings is a top 10 NBA pg.
            (2) I cited Yahoo’s current stats, for a required 50 game minimum, that show Jennings # 4 in league in assists. # 7 in scoring in the NBA.
            (3) I referenced his wikipedia page, listing exceptional accomplishments, including that Jennings is the youngest player in NBA history to score 50 points in a game.
            (4) I cited 5 players (5 pgs) who were all-stars that are worse than Jennings. 
            (5) All of the above is a very substantive and statistical response to the arguments you have made here. All of the above is also a substantial/statistical response to the preposterous claim he will never make an all-star team in his entire career. That it’s just over for him at 24. Done. He’ll never be an all-star in the NBA. Now look in the mirror. Is this what you are really arguing?

          • Feb 17, 20143:49 pm
            by Huddy

            Being an all star and being a top 10 PG are not the same.  Being an all star and being debatably in the top 10 of pgs are definitely not the same.
            Slam magazine ranked Jennings 48 out of top 50 players in 2012 and he didn’t make the list for 2013
            dime magazine dropped Jennings out of the top 10 to 14 in the more recent listing (for PGs)
            Jennings is not in SI top 10 point guards for 2013
            He is 7th in scoring on the most inefficient shooting percentage of the bunch.  You said you played basketball…you do recognize that just the number of points isn’t impressive when you shoot extremely inefficiently right?
            You’re right his Wikipedia page, how could I forget.  He has a few scoring records (all pertaining to 1 55 point outing) (rookie, pts in a half, fgs in a quarter).  He was a Mcdonalds All American MVP ( like many good great and mediocre NBA players have been: Jodh Mcroberts, Michael Beasley, Chase Budinger).  And he was on the all rookie 1st team  his rookie year.  That is not a particularly special group of accomplishments.  The list is longer if you care about HS stats where every nba player does well.
            You have yet to explain how finding a player that you feel is worse than Jennings that has made an all star team improves your point.  It proves it is possible not that it is likely.  that example goes both was as players who deserve it have also been snubbed.
            no response to all the players listed that are currently better or on similar levels with potential to improve like jennings
            no response to the smaller window for an all star chance that actually exists for Jennings based on how unlikely it becomes for a player to make an all star team after 28

    • Feb 17, 20144:21 pm
      by Parsons


      You say Jennings is in your top 10 pgs, if you don’t mind me asking who are you other 9? Just curious. I just wonder because of the sheer abundance of good PGs I wonder which made it for you.

      • Feb 17, 20148:30 pm
        by pablum


        @Huddy: You are one strange fucking Piston fan. You put all this energy in tearing down your own starting 24 year-old pg, whom almost everyone at least agrees has obvious talent, Dan noted, perhaps, “peripheral all-star talent” (though then bizarrely pronounced he would never be an all-star), certainly has all-star worthy stats, just recently had a 35/12 game, the first since Isiah, again, is youngest player in NBA history to hit 50, (55pts), has exceptional speed and handles, and has clearly been one of our best players this season, leading our noble warriors in scoring and assists. Again. All at 24. And yet, you think nothing of declaring him, as far as I can tell, at best, a piece of shit as a player. So bereft, in fact, you’re ready to write off his entire career as ever being an all-star. Right now. You know this. Right now. He will never be an all-star. And you think nothing of saying it. I simply and decisively do not comprehend it except as an organic by-product of your cold analytics and Joe dementia (if you are of that ilk, if not , my apologies…(And how fucking old are you to think writing off the future of someone so talented should ever be reasonable, seriously? You’re a fucking kid, too.)
        Here’s something that makes it serious. When pro-scribes put that shit out in print, when Piston pro-scribes say it they better be ready to own it because Jenning’s might actually get wind of the words, eh Vince Ellis?, and that those words might actually sting. Cuz I haf ta’ say again if I was one of you, with your platform here, (Dan ESPN), and I put it out there that brother Brandon was never gonna’ be an all-star – I mean never! never. ever. — I would be watchin’ my azz.
        @Parsons My 10 pgs (unijnured) with the amateur handicap and concurrent mulligans:
        1. John Wall 2. CP3 3. Tony Parker. 4.Kyrie 5.Westbrook 6.Curry — that’s all I got. the rest, ‘cept for the Lillialrd lappers (don’t see him enough to lap) — the rest is the rest and Brandon sure as hell I’m a true mother fuckin’ Piston FAN has hands on a death grip at 10. Fuck ya’ all!

        • Feb 17, 20149:41 pm
          by Huddy


          I am a pistons fan that uses all facts available to formulate my opinions.  Understanding his limitations and the abilities of other players in the league isn’t tearing him down.  If you are only interested in the most positive spin on all current pistons you might consider exclusively reading Keith Langolis.  
          I hope that he goes to the next 10 all star games, and that hope is unrelated to the available information showing that is unlikely.  
          if you just like Jennings and hope/believe he has big things in the future then more power to you, but why not just say that instead of spending all this time pretending there is damning evidence that proves you are right?  You might be the one over expending energy switching back and forth between trying to present facts and relying exclusively on emotional variables to prove your point.

        • Feb 17, 201410:09 pm
          by pablum


          And I’d like all the writers who went on record that Brandon Jennings will NEVER-EVER-EVER be an all-star (even if ameliorated as “long-shot” by one) to note the date that they too made their great and grand and prophetic announcement of what was achievable for this 24 year-old kid in his NBA future:
          12:11 pm • February 16, 2014
          OWN IT. 

          • Feb 17, 201410:54 pm
            by pablum

            And now for the coup de gras:
            Dan, Patrick, Vince, would you dare share your views about Brandon’s ceiling as a player with George and Greg and the gang at Piston’s Live? I’m sure you would. Because you are writers. And writers must stand by their words, if their words are to have meaning.
            So You are all on the air live. The subject of who on he Piston’s current roster might make it to an all-star game in the near future is brought up. This exact question is asked: Who on the Piston’s current roster will play in an all-star game? And when, of course, Brandon’ Jennings name is brought up, as it surely would be, ALL of you of course would say, without the slightest compunction:
            “Brandon Jennings will never play in an all-star game in his entire NBA career.”
            (You’d say that, right?)

          • Feb 18, 201412:24 am
            by pablum

            I am going to take my old man ass to bed now. I know when I awake, one of the writers — Dan, Patrick, Vince — will man up and admit they owe Brandon Jennings an apology for saying on 12:11 pm • February 16, 2014 that he would never make an all-star game in his entire career.
            I know one of them will surely admit this is a totally irresponsible statement to make on this date about a 24 year old kid’s potential. That it is ridiculously premature. That they would surely not advocate this view on Piston’s Live or any other major-local or national media forum. They know they wouldn’t because they know their words would be truly insulting to Brandon Jennings. They know this is the truth.
            Whether they care or not is all that matters now. It’s now been nearly two days since they went on record. Two days. And there has been strident discussion on this. And they have backed their clearly inflammatory words…with nothing.
            They have given this entire a forum a “No Comment.”

      • Feb 17, 20149:56 pm
        by pablum


        @parsons: taking amateur handicap and mulligan. (is westbrook still injured?). My mulligan is Kyrie. At this stage I put him behind Westbrook and Curry. Still legitimately claim Jenning’s deservedly in 7-10 range. And I will up the ante. I believe he is clearly the MVP of the Pistons so far, the singular player without whom we would no doubt be likely the worst team in the NBA.
        @Huddy…your cold logic has availed you of incredible and unsurpassed powers of prophecy…
        @cityof Klompton..Ah ha, so tell us more of your theory…’cause all I read was a discussion of talent.

  • Feb 16, 20146:57 pm
    by gmehl


    Am I the only one reading the rumour mill is heating up big time atm. So far i’ve read that the Heat are interested in Villanueva which i’m sure is for his expiring deal rather than his talent. Question is ‘what’ could we get from Miami that benefits us?

    • Feb 16, 20147:21 pm
      by gmehl


      Ok can what I just wrote. Looks like they will only look to sign CV if we buy him out

  • Feb 16, 201411:20 pm
    by Marvin Madison


    So now yall saying Smith’s best years are behind him so why in the hell joe dumars sign him superstar money? This management is grrrrrrrrrreeeeeaaaattt and im not riding with kcp he will just be another decent defensive threat to opposing teams thats it

    • Feb 17, 20149:15 am
      by hoophabit


      Just because they say Josh Smith’s best days are behind them doesn’t make it true.  He’s 28 and should be around his peak during this 4 year contract at 13.5 mil per year, which is not “superstar money.”  We’re all disappointed by the Piston’s performance this year, but I’d submit that the lion’s share of the blame for this goes to guard play.  On a team with reliable perimeter shooting and someone who can feed the post Smith wouldn’t attract so much negative attention.
      I suppose we all hoped KCP would get off to a better start, but it’s too soon to declare him a failed draft pick.  Plenty of players need time to adjust to the NBA.  Piston alum Afflalo, who lots of people want back now, had a similarly slow start in the league.  If he looks the same in his third year he’s probably a bust.

      • Feb 17, 20149:24 am
        by Huddy


        In theory I would agree and since I have never been a Hawks fan that would know for sure how prevalent the negative comments were when he was there.  I do feel like there was at least a sizeable amoiunt of criticism while he was in atlanta and he was playing with Johnson, Korcer, Williams, etc so he had plenty of shooters there.  Maybe it is more intense in Detroit, but in my opinion having not closely followed the hawks he as criticized with shooters around him as well.
        I do think the poor guard play gets swept under the rug too much because all anyone wants to talk aboit
        is the situation with the bigs though.

  • Feb 17, 20149:39 am
    by Corey


    Monroe will make an ASG at some point if he plays on a winning team. 18 and 10 on a contender can get a big man there, and he’s obviously capable of that. If he adds a jump shot any time in the next 3-4 years, he could easily be a 20-10 guy and make it a couple times. His chances do go up a lot if he’s traded from the pistons and doesn’t have to play next to Dre. Being the 2nd best center on your own team makes it hard.
    KCP can definitely make it- he has all the physical tools. The only question is how far he grows as an offensive player. at Georgia he scored off the dribble primarily, so he has good ball skills

  • Feb 17, 20149:50 am
    by Corey


    With Jennings, the question is whether he grows up as a player. He has all the necessary individual skills at a high level, but doesn’t know how to play team ball. he either comes down the floor looking to pass , or looking to score. It’s the only explanation for how he’ll go 1-3 with 10 assists one half, then go 5-15 with 1 assist the second half. If he actually learns to run the offense and pick his spots, he could score as many or more points on fewer shots. If he scored a reasonably efficient 18 with 10 assists, he could make it. And he can do that. He could probably lead the league in assists, in fact

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