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Pistons reportedly want to trade Josh Smith, not Greg Monroe

Marc Stein of ESPN:

Sources briefed on the situation told ESPN.com this week that the Pistons have been telling teams with Monroe interest that the restricted free agent-to-be — no matter what you’ve heard — is not available.

Chris Broussard of ESPN:

The Josh Smith experiment in Detroit is not going well, and there’s strong opinion around the league that the Pistons would trade him if they could — and "could” is the key word. Since Smith is in the first year of a four-year, $56 million deal, he is one of the most untradable players in the league.

Tentative hooray? Tentative hooray.

A lot can change before the trade deadline – and this could just be posturing, anyway – but I really want the Pistons to build around Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe. I believe those two can be key pieces on a very successful team.

It’s just difficult to envision that very successful team also including Josh Smith.

For one, Smith is five years older than Monroe and eight years older than Drummond. In the time it will take Drummond and Monroe to hit their primes, Smith , 28, will be heading over the hill.

Secondly, Smith has been a disastrous fit with Monroe and Drummond so far. I haven’t totally given up on the lineup’s potential – the talent is there – but the odds of those three ever consistently playing well together are already low and only falling. As Smith ages and his athleticism wanes, he’ll become an even poorer fit at small forward.

I’m not against trading Monroe. He’s certainly not as important to the Pistons’ future as Drummond. I just believe it will be difficult to get fair value for Monroe, and I’m definitely against trading him just to make the current roster fit a little better. I’d rather show patience and give the Pistons a chance to reconstruct the roster around those two – something they probably should have been more focused on doing sooner.

As for a Smith trade, you can read read my thoughts at ProBasketballTalk.

92 Comments

  • Jan 31, 20148:22 pm
    by Javell

    Reply

    YESSSSSSS

  • Jan 31, 20149:10 pm
    by Smellman

    Reply

    Is there anyone that would realistically take Smith and give us something half decent in return?

    • Jan 31, 201410:45 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      I would guess the Celtics would trade Green for Smith. The only thing is, Smith is higher grade of talent compared to Green…I would want more than just Green…

      • Jan 31, 201411:32 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        In terms of talent, the Pistons are losing that trade. In terms of contracts the Pistons would be the winners. Green’s making more than $4 million a year less, is a much better fit, and is on a shorter deal than Smith. I think it would both help the team financially and make the team better on the court even though Smith is the better overall player. Yeah, I’d do a trade of Smith for Green and the unguaranteed deal Bogans is on.

        • Feb 1, 20146:35 pm
          by PistonFanSinceDay1

          Reply

          Jodi and Oats, I proposed a Green for Smith deal like a week ago. Only you two responded and now look at everyone! Lol

      • Feb 1, 201410:46 am
        by gidi

        Reply

        the celtics are in rebuilding mode and would never take on the contract of smith who is too old and too expensive for them at this point.

      • Feb 1, 20142:26 pm
        by Tim

        Reply

        Well, good luck then.  Smith may be more talented, but he is not that valuable around the league. 
         
         
        Personally, I would love to see a jennings/smith for rondo/green trade…..  
        but the value of jennings and smith is so low that we would probably have to settle for rondo/wallace. 
         
         
        Dumars sucks so hard at FA signings.  and coach evaluation.  What is wrong with him.  Many of us knew smith was a terrible signing from the get go.  Why couldnt he see that?

  • Jan 31, 20149:33 pm
    by Mikeyahoosports

    Reply

    Why’d dummars even sign him? Shouldn’t with all his experience he know smith would be a poor small forward? 

    • Feb 3, 20143:12 pm
      by sop

      Reply

      Disagree that he’s worthless and that his contract is a total pariah. Dumars gambled big time on the fit and obviously its not working. But Smith on another team, as seen during at least the 09-10 & 11′-12′ seasons, is a very useful player at PF.

  • Jan 31, 20149:42 pm
    by brgulker

    Reply

    ANYTHING is a decent return. The Pistons would get better just by benching him. Trading him for anything with a pulse and a shorter contract is a win. 

    • Feb 1, 20146:08 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      Exactly.  A bag if dirty socks would suffice.
      It would be a classic case of addition by subtraction.
      He costs nothing but cap space so get rid of him and move on.

  • Jan 31, 201410:06 pm
    by David c

    Reply

    Trade him to Boston for Bass and Green then trade Bass to Houston

  • Jan 31, 201410:07 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    Houston, Boston, 3 way….
    Houston get Smith
    Boston gets Asik
    Pistons get Terrance Jones,Gerald Wallace…maybe Boston and Houston throw in picks 
    Way teams would do this
    Reports were Smith was interested in Houston and Houston was interested in Smith with but because they already invested in Asik they could afford Smith
    Reports were Boston wanted Asik but Houston wanted too much in return…now Houston would be getting Smith basically for Asik, and Boston gets there big for Gerald Wallace
    Pistons get a promising player in Terrance Jones, and they get a horrible contract with Gerald Wallace but his contract one year before smith contract, and it’s 4million dollars per year cheaper…also Detroit gets one of Boston many picks either in 2014 or 2015
     

    • Jan 31, 201411:51 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I think Asik and Jones for Smith is an awfully steep price to pay for someone playing as poorly as Smith. I really can’t see them doing that. Asik and Montiejunas might be possible, although that’s no longer worth it for Detroit, or maybe if they get a couple second round picks to compensate them for giving up Jones that might make some sense. As it is I can’t see them doing that trade though.
       
      Boston may be willing to send the draft picks needed to get Houston to make this kind of swap. Turning Wallace into Asik is a great get, and they might be willing to throw in a couple second round picks on top of sending a first to Detroit. That’s starting to get to be a lot to ask of Boston though.

  • Jan 31, 201410:08 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    Should read “Why Teams Would Do This”

  • Jan 31, 201410:28 pm
    by A

    Reply

    I must be in the minority, but I don’t think Smith’s contract is bad. He’s still an all star caliber power forward in his prime. He is just playing out of position. Win now teams like Houston or Brooklyn should be interested. Seems like a package built around Chandler Parsons would be doable or dealing for the injured Brook Lopez and involving a third team to get SF back. The suggested trades on the ProBasketball link are really sell low trades which require the Pistons to take back awful contracts and no talent. Not sure why that’s necessary. He’s not Ben Gordon. 

    • Jan 31, 201410:38 pm
      by Birdman84

      Reply

      Houston isn’t trading Parsons. Smith has been absolutely terrible. He’s never been an All Star even in his best seasons, which were a few years ago.

      • Jan 31, 201410:52 pm
        by Jodi aka "The Guru"

        Reply

        Smith isn’t “absolutely terrible”…You’re clearly overreacting…

        • Jan 31, 201411:24 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          He isn’t absolutely terrible, but he has been absolutely terrible this season. Those are two different things to be honest. He is the biggest brick layer in the league in terms of combining bad shooting and high volume shooting. His defense at the 3 has been embarrassingly bad, and he’s also turnover prone. He’s still a good enough defender at the 4 that he’s not absolutely terrible if he were playing that position more, but so far this year he isn’t playing the 4 enough to get him anywhere near acceptable play. So yes, I’d say he’s been absolutely terrible this year.

    • Jan 31, 201411:18 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Smith has been pretty bad at PF too. His shooting percentage is only very slightly and he’s still jacking up tons of shots. He is a good defender there, but his offense is still damaging to the team. His play at PF has been nowhere near All Star caliber this year. Heck, there are stats that say he was harmful on offense last year when he was playing quite a bit better than he is this season. For him to be getting more than $13 million a year means he is in fact on a bad contract. He’s not give away a draft pick bad, but he’s definitely not getting a whole lot back. Smith is definitely no where near enough to get Parsons. Parsons is closer to being an All Star in the West than Smith is of being an All Star in the much weaker Eastern conference, he’s much younger, and way cheaper. That’s not even close to feasible.

    • Feb 1, 201410:03 am
      by MrHappyMushroom

      Reply

      ” He’s still an all star caliber power forward in his prime.”
       
      He just isn’t.  At the four, he’s likely still a good defender, maybe even very good, (though I’ve not watched him enough over the years to judge).  But he’s 28 and won’t be better when he’s 31 or 32.
       
      He’s not a good offensive player. Never really has been.  He’s had a couple of seasons that were borderline all-star, but it’s been a while and I don’t consider him particularly close.  If–big if–he’d be willing to play as a third or fourth wheel on a contender, he could be a really good addition to a team.  But I have to think that a bitchiness has become evident this year and I don’t think a contender or borderline contender would be wise to take the risk.
       
      Maybe the Knicks, who really have to make the playoffs and who don’t have to worry about money, or the Suns, who have exceeded all expectations and might want to see if a big addition without surrendering anything (Okafor’s contract) might bite. 

    • Feb 1, 201410:35 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I don’t get how someone can be an “All-Star caliber” player when they’ve never been an All-Star. Smith has been on the fringe of making the team a couple of times, but let’s be real … if he hasn’t made one by the time he’s 28, he’s very likely never going to be an All-Star.

      • Feb 1, 201411:18 am
        by Max

        Reply

        The reason a player can be all star caliber without ever making the team is because making the team is about politics and perception as much as it is about merit.   In my opinion, every single year players are snubbed who have every right to say they are better than players who make the team.   Are Aaron Afflalo, Kyle Lowry and Andre Drummond not all star caliber players?   Hell, Anthony Davis is probably better than more than half of the players who made the teams.  I would say all of those players are all star caliber because in my mind they are clearly better players than Joe Johnson or Demar Derozan are right now.  Also, if you want to get into players who never made the team, I’ll go to my grave saying guys like Sam Cassell and Rod Strickland were all star caliber players.    I don’t know why they didn’t make it but again, I feel it had more to do with politics, perception and the specifics of the years they were deserving and the relative depth at their positions in their conferences then whether they were all star caliber in an absolute sense.   So at the end of the day, I would call any player all star caliber who has a strong argument to make the team and not worry about whether they actually do.  
        So yes, Josh Smith is an all star caliber talent and I don’t think there are no teams in the league who realize he’s on possibly the worst team in the league to showcase his talent.   Fit and opportunity is everything in a way.   Jordan Crawford for instance wasn’t suddenly a much better player in Boston this year: he was just put in the position to put up much better stats than he ever had before just like he’s not suddenly a much worse player in Golden State since he’s been traded: he’s just been put in a much worse position to showcase himself.   In fantasy terms, a month ago, Crawford was a desired commodity and either a hundred percent owned or close.   Now, no one wants him because he doesn’t have the opportunity to put up good numbers.   That doesn’t mean fantasy owners wouldn’t want him if his situation was different.   To this point, Houston would be an entirely different situation for Smith.   He’d be a fourth option scorer and one of their very best passers and defenders and he’s a player who it’s not too far fetched to say could put them over the top to win a championship.   The conservatives on this issue might be right about what the Rockets would be willing to do but I don’t think it’s really that unlikely that they or another contending team could decide to do whatever they had to do to acquire Smith if they see him as the final piece to win a ring.  

        • Feb 1, 201410:23 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Thanks for the soliloquy, Hamlet.

          I’ll rephrase more succinctly: Josh Smith is NOT an All-Star caliber player. All-Star caliber forward would mean you’re, in any given year, a top fiveish frontcourt player in your conference. Josh Smith has only been near a top fiveish frontcourt player in the East maybe once or twice in his career. He’s also 27 now, he’s having the worst season of his career (and a historically bad season shooting the ball) and every chance he gets, he DOUBLES DOWN and insists that he’s going to continue playing the dumb way that he plays. Politics haven’t kept Josh Smith from being an All-Star. The presence of better players combined with Josh Smith’s unwillingness to fix the weak spots in his game prevent Josh Smith from being an All-Star.

          Arron Afflalo is not an All-Star caliber player. He’s having a career-year that happens to coincide with a season when the shooting guard position in the East is really bad. DeRozan is younger and still improving, but I would also err on the side of saying his AS appearance this year is a fluke. Lowry has always been a talented guy who has had injury issues/coaches who hate him issues and he’s finally getting a big-time role from a coach who loves him in Toronto (interesting sidenote on Lowry — no one was talking about him as a potential All-Star back when the Raps featured another player in the Josh Smith mode of “he looks like an All-Star because DUNKS!” in Rudy Gay inefficiently chucking bad shots. Take away the “All-Star caliber” Gay, and all of a sudden you find out you have much better players if you remove the overpaid one who plays stupid basketball from the equation. Imagine that).

          • Feb 2, 201412:59 pm
            by Max

            So now you’ve gone from asking how players who have never made the all star team could be all star caliber to saying that players who actually do make the team are not all star caliber?  Or am I drawing the wrong impression of what you are trying to say with your all over the place rant?    
            Anyone, I think your top five forward in a conference is close to being right but it’s really top forward in a conference while playing for one of the better teams and without being too much of a knucklehead for the coaches to dislike you.  Josh Smith hasn’t made the all star team in his career more because of the second two points than whether he was or was close to ever being a top five forward in the conference because he has been that nearly every year of his career and this year has been by far his worst—and I do think that’s because of fit.  

          • Feb 2, 201411:50 pm
            by Max

            Also, the way that you are talking about this basically makes me feel like you think a player should be a perennial all star caliber player to actually be an all star caliber player.   I’m more for looking at the history of players who have actually made the team while taking into account the yearly distribution of good players at the position in the east and the west.   
            You can say what you want about Josh Smith and I personally don’t want him on the Pistons anymore but he is a bigger star than some who have the team, has been voted by the GMs multiple years as the second most athletic player in the league and he contributes in five categories to the extent that I have never seen him not picked in the top 28 of fantasy drafts and have sometimes seen him picked in first rounds for many years now.  He has also been a key member of a team that went to many playoff series and won a few.  
            It just seems absurd to say so stridently that Josh Smith is not all star caliber.   Think of this way, what would you have laid in terms of odds before any of the last seven seasons that Smith would make the all star team and what would those combined odds infer in terms of the likelihood that he would have made the team at least once.   I think you’d have to be lying if you don’t think his odds were decent in most of the last seven seasons and that he wasn’t a strong consideration during a few.  

  • Jan 31, 201410:39 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    Rockets not moving Parsons…..id take Terrance Jones and picks tho

    • Feb 1, 201410:38 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      They’re probably not moving Jones either, especially if it’s in a trade for Smith.

      The only realistic thing would be some sort of package including Lin and Asik, and the Pistons probably have to add a couple of future picks to make that even worthy of considering, since Lin and Asik are expensive but not having terrible seasons like Smith is. To think that Houston would part with any of its promising young players in a trade for Smith is crazy. Houston’s organization just doesn’t make trades like that where they give up good prospects to take a really expensive risk that they can fix Smith.

      • Feb 2, 20142:41 pm
        by Branden

        Reply

        Patrick you are insane if you think us taking Lin back in a deal from Houston would require “extra picks” even with Asik also coming. And even then Houston apparently would not be interested? Morey tried to prop Asik up as a “All Star caliber” big and no one bought it. And Smith, as late as 2011 led the League in DWS, IE, he is as good a post defender guarding PFs as Asik is at guarding C’s.
         
         
         
         

  • Jan 31, 201410:52 pm
    by A

    Reply

    I hear you. But I think the Rockets want the appeal of a “big three.” Parsons is good, but not great. Smith at PF is better right now and the Rockets are built for right now. But, my larger point is I don’t think the best we can do is trade him for three years of Gerald Wallace at the same price. He has value. His bad play is the result of playing out of position, not a decline. We don’t need to desperately dump his contract for pennies on the dollar.

  • Jan 31, 201411:07 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    I’d rather have first Rd picks…Parson can become a free agent and bolt right back to Houston 

  • Jan 31, 201411:08 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    Terrance Jones can be a younger better josh with

  • Jan 31, 201411:30 pm
    by Smitty

    Reply

    DBB has quite a few good trade scenarios. I’d probably take any one of them.

  • Feb 1, 201412:19 am
    by BC

    Reply

    All this bagging on JS and jocking GM has got to stop.   Age aside, JS is a MUCH better fit for this team as long as AD is at the 5 which he will be for a long time.  Anyone who really understands basketball on both ends of the floor would tell you the same.  You think we need an slow, unathletic 6’11″ guy playing the 4 next to AD??  Look at the metrics before you just see JS’s shot chart and make assumptions.  If you look at JS stats solely at the 4, JS is much better than GM solely at the 4.  It’s really not close to be honest.  Problem is Dumars put together a terrible roster that doesn’t work.  JS needs to play the 4, and GM needs to play the 5.  But AD is there so it is time to ship GM outta town which works since we will get much more in return for him anyway.  Our 2 best rotations for the entire season both have JS at the 4; 1 with AD at the 5 and the other with GM at the 5.  The contract has you concerned?  What do you think GM is gonna cost after this year??  His contract will be at least the size of JS’s with an extra year on it.  I know, I know, GM heading into his prime and JS going to be heading downhill.  JS will be 31 when his contract ends, that’s about the age when players really start to decline.
    Move GM for a shooter who can defend and a draft pick before the deadline.  Ideally tank and we get to keep our 1st Rd pick.  Fire Dumars and Mo.  Get a gm who understands the modern era of basketball.  Hire a coach who can lead and teach defense.  Ideally trade a pick and BJ for a real point guard who can run an offense and defend.  There, we are the 3rd best team in the east next year, maybe 2nd if MIA self-destructs.
    Thank you for listening…
     

    • Feb 1, 20141:15 am
      by TDP

      Reply

      “Look at the metrics before you just see JS’s shot chart and make assumptions.”
      If you’re lauding Joss Smiff, that’s exactly what you DON’T want people doing.  If they look at the metrics, they’ll see that Greg Monroe is a much more efficient player.

      • Feb 1, 20141:48 am
        by BC

        Reply

        This is exactly what I’m talking about. People think because Monroe has a higher fg % he’s more efficient.  GM’s PER at the 4 is 17.6.  GM is allowing a 18.9 PER to his opponent at the 4.  That’s a net -1.3.  JS PER at the 4 is 19.3 while allowing a 14.9 PER for a net +4.4.  As I said not even close…

        • Feb 1, 20143:07 am
          by oats

          Reply

          PER is kind of a terrible stat. It’s a stat that rewards a guy for shooting more. Even a guy shooting as poorly as Smith is helped out by jacking up more shots, and Josh Smith jacks up shots far more frequently than Monroe does. It also doesn’t in any way account for Josh Smith’s inherent advantage. Josh Smith never has to play with Josh Smith as his SF, and Josh Smith is a terrible SF. Smith is always playing PF next to an actual wing player, and that makes Detroit better on both sides of the ball. The spacing is better for him on offense, and the team defense is better which helps him hold PFs to a lower PER. I’d say it’s pretty hard to use that stat to back up the idea that Smith is a better PF than Monroe. It might be a decent starting point, but it doesn’t hold weight in and of itself.
           
          If you keep looking, the stats don’t really support the notion that Smith is the better PF. Greg Monroe has the higher effective field goal percentage at that spot with .508 versus .446, and Smith is shooting much more often than Monroe. It should be noted that .446 is really bad for effective field goal percentage. Smith does get to the line a bit more often though. Smith holds his opponent to a slightly lower effective field goal percentage of .529 versus .546. That suggests that his defensive advantage is less than most people would guess, especially when you keep in mind the caveat that the Pistons are a bad defensive team when Smith is playing the 3. Smith does have an advantage in steals and a big advantage in blocked shots though. This year Smith at PF has been even with Monroe at PF in terms of rebounds per minute. I’d again point out the fact that Smith never has to deal with the 3 big lineup while also playing PF. There is a limit to how many rebounds there are in a game, and having too many good rebounders tends to cause diminishing returns. I suspect that career averages are a better indicator for who the better rebounder is, and Monroe has a big advantage in that with an average of 10.3 per 36 minutes versus Smith’s 8.3 per 36 minutes. Smith also has a significant assists advantage, but their carer averages are pretty close and I suspect that’s just the result of Smith having a lot more touches.
           
          I’d still say that Smith’s combination of bad shooting and shooting a lot is enough to give Monroe the edge considering Monroe is also probably the better rebounder. Smith is definitely the better defender, and there is plenty of evidence to support that. It’s at best pretty close between these two, and that’s without factoring in the age thing. You really can’t set that factor aside. Drummond is 20, so he won’t even begin to hit his peak for another 4 years or so. Monroe will be 27 and entering his prime while Smith will be 32 and likely starting his decline. That’s absolutely a deal breaker for any discussion on which of these two the team should back.

          • Feb 1, 20143:30 am
            by oats

            Actually, let me restate that first sentence and clarify what I meant. PER is not a terrible stat, but it is flawed metric that can easily be misused. The guy who created it has said the same thing about it and is very open about how flawed it can be. From what both Hollinger and I can tell, any attempt to boil down the entirety of what happens on the court into a single number is bound to be flawed. Hollinger readily admits that his stat tends to overrate volume shooters and doesn’t in anyway account for lineup issues and how they can effect a player’s numbers. It’s perfectly adequate for doing what it is supposed to do, which is give a rough estimate of how productive a player is while also taking into account efficiency to some extent. It’s not a great overall talent evaluator though, and even Memphis has made several moves that PER disagreed with since Hollinger joined their front office. PER is woefully inadequate for determining which player is the better PF for the Pistons.

          • Feb 1, 201410:14 am
            by BC

            Oats, now we are getting somewhere…  Solid response and I agree with most of it.  PER certainly isn’t the end all be all.  I only brought that up in my second comment to the “efficiency” response for a reason.  However, both you and Mr Hollinger would have to admit that a difference of 5.7 net PER is dramatic.  But for argument sake, let’s look at things another way.  You mentioned the fact that Smith doesn’t have to play with Smith at the 3 so let’s compare apple to apple.  Do you know what DET’s best lineup is?  It is Jennings, Stuckey, Singler, Smith and Drummond.  Adjusted for 48 minutes that lineup has a +/- of +18.  They have a team FG% of over 58% score 114.5pts and give up 96.5pts.  Let’s now swap Monroe for Smith and leave the rest of the lineup the same so that Monroe doesn’t have to play with Smith at the 3 so we got Jennings, Stuckey, Singler, Monroe and Drummond.  Per 48 minutes their +/- is a -40!  They shoot 40%, score 74.5pts and give up 114.5pts.  Also, the Smith team has a much higher REB% (56 to 44) .5 less TO’s, more steals, blocks, assists, less fouls.  I mean literally a clean sweep in a landslide.  Let’s say there needs to be more sample size, perhaps the Smith unit has had more time vs a lesser opponent, etc.  But whatever you want to come up with DET clearly plays much better with Smith at the 4.
            Monroe is not a PF in todays NBA, period.  He is too slow and it effects the team on both ends.  He is a C in this league and will NEVER be great with Drummond regardless of where Smith is playing. 
            As for the age thing, of course it’s a big deal.  But you also need to realize that is the main reason DET would be getting so much more back for him than Smith.  People are trying to just get a shorter bad contract back for Smith.  Monroe brings the team many trading options and ways to improve, and with Smith actually a better 4 than Monroe anyway, no brainer…
             

          • Feb 1, 20145:07 pm
            by bonerici

             
            This is in response to BC
            “Jennings, Stuckey, Singler, Smith and Drummond.”
             
            total of 55 minutes played
            So 2 or 3 games.  Was this the lineup we tried against Philadelphia?
             
            “Jennings, Stuckey, Singler, Monroe and Drummond”
            total of 34 minutes played.   Weren’t most of them on December 28th in a blowout loss to the Wizards?
             
            Please don’t read much into those lineups unless you are willing to base conclusions on 2 or 3 games.
             
            The PER stuff is probably as good as any metric to use, I don’t have any real problem using that to help compare players.
             
            How good is Josh Smith with Drummond?  Nobody knows!  How good is Monroe with Drummond?  Well we can use the stats from last year and extrapolate a bit since Drummond is clearly a better player now. 
             
            But as for stats where we are playing a traditional lineup with Drummond+Monroe or Drummond+Josh Smith it’s been a half season already and we are STILL not done with the “big three” failure of a lineup.
             
            And tonight we are gonna see more of the same old garbage.  Jennings KCP Josh Greg and Andre.  Nothing’s changed except the fans have had a enough and we are all pointing fingers.  Not in the same direction I’ll grant but we are fed up.

          • Feb 2, 20142:43 am
            by oats

            @ BC. I think you are reading too much into that one lineup that doesn’t play much. Let’s try it with Singler at SF and with the rest of the starting lineup. So Jennings, KCP, Singler, a PF, and Drummond. The Monroe version has an offensive rating of 112 and a defensive rating of 93 for a net rating of +19. The Smith version has an offensive rating of 78 and a defensive rating of 129 for a net rating of -51. So the Monroe version is really good and the Smith version is unbelievably terrible. Now let’s try it with Bynum, Stuckey, Singler, a PF, and Drummond. The net rating for Smith is -16 while the net rating for Monroe is +53. The sample size thing is really problematic in this though. The good Smith lineup has played 55 minutes, the bad Smith lineups have played 48 combined minutes, the bad Monroe lineup has played 34 minutes, and the good Monroe lineups have played 39 combined minutes. That’s just too few minutes to be all that meaningful, and it’s why I focused on overall production at PF. I still think that Smith’s propensity for missing shots costs him in that comparison.
             
            So let’s move on to Monroe and Drummond’s compatibility. The total information of Monroe and Drummond but without Smith is still pretty limited. The thing is, they’ve actually been pretty solid in the limited time they’ve spent like that both this year and last year. I also don’t buy into the positional labels you are putting on these guys. Even if Monroe is not a PF, which I happen to disagree with, then Drummond is perfectly capable of playing PF next to Monroe. Seriously, what does someone like Derrick Favors do at PF that Drummond can’t do? I personally think there are only a handful of guys that are only centers in the league, and neither Monroe nor Drummond actually qualify. I think they are both just big men.
             
            Instead of focusing on positional labels, I’d much rather ask if they have the basics skills to work as a front court. Drummond can guard the better scorer in the front court at either position. The small number of teams with two guys that can really light up Monroe are the teams whose front courts are a problem for everyone, so I don’t really see the point in stressing over that. Offensively Monroe can create points for himself and is a good enough passer to help create for others. That ability does a decent job of spacing the floor for a big man, and it is a good fit next to Drummond’s skills as a finisher near the hoop. As for Drummond, teams do have to follow him away from the hoop because his skills as a cutter and offensive rebounder are so good that he can’t be effectively defended by a guy playing too far off him. Monroe is also a decent pick setter and Drummond is a great one, which a good coach could use to help manufacture some space. It’s not exactly great spacing, but if they get surrounded by 3 perimeter players who can actually score from the perimeter then it is more than enough for the offense to effectively operate. I’m not seeing what makes these two incompatible.

    • Feb 1, 20143:21 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      If Josh Smith was the same age as Monroe, I would agree.  By the time Drummond really starts to learn how to play, Smith’s body will be failing him and clearly his jump shot isn’t going to bail him out at old age.  The argument isn’t who’s better for the team now; it’s who’s better for the time when Drummond is ready to lead a contending team, assuming Drummond takes those steps.

    • Feb 1, 20146:31 pm
      by Tim

      Reply

      well, cheeks has already admitted that he only plays one of monroe or drummond with smith.  He doesnt play monroe and drummond together without smith very often.  Which is why your analysis is pointless.
       
       

  • Feb 1, 201412:33 am
    by pablum

    Reply

    The apparent fact Joe wants to ditch Smith after a mete 40 or so games(! Astounding !) says it’s all about his personality and little to do with his athletic talents. (And this also ties in with Dan’s/Pat’s exceptional work on the role of analytics in Hoops. Namely, how do you measue a player’s desire to win. It’s highly improbable any of this trade talk would be happening if Dumars and co. felt Smith was playing his azz off night in and night out. But there have been many — too many — times where it’s been apparent Smith is just going through the motions, or plain not even trying out there (he is allergic to accountability on the court.) The only and obvious problem with this now is that the league knows it and it’s hard to see Amy scenario where we don’t get screwed in any deal for him. Which leaves us stuck with him, really, and I’m seeing that more and more as good thing draft wise. Much as I detest Smith, because of his attitude, he’d make for a good bench player– lest he pulls a Bob McAdoo on us…

  • Feb 1, 20142:32 am
    by MRCARTER

    Reply

    Not happening. As much as I would love to trade Smith he’s not going anywhere only 1/2 year after signing that huge contract. If anyone from our frontline is gonna be traded at the deadline, its gonna be Monroe(unfortunately).

  • Feb 1, 20142:37 am
    by TMC

    Reply

    Funny thing is if the pistons didn’t have Josh Smith.
    Moose would still struggle at playing power Forward.
    For the record Smith has always been a better player than Monroe.
    Smith has many great performances in meaningful games vs all-star players.
    I can’t think of an all-star Moose owns! Since he ssworth so much. He has put up numbers in his career, sure! But how many times in for years has moose just scored 10 meaningful 4th quarter baskets to close out games? Not enough for me for all this he should be untouchable talk.
    Moose+cv for Jeff green & bass
    Stuckey for Marcus Thornton

    • Feb 1, 20142:46 am
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Josh Smith has a track record of flirting with all-star status but constantly being dragged down by his horrible inefficiency. Greg Monroe was getting better every single year until this year when we made the HUGE mistake of signing Josh Smith it’s time to admit that mistake and try to correct it if we can.

    • Feb 1, 20143:52 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I suspect Moose has made 10 meaningful 4th quarter baskets to close out a game as many times as Smith. I seriously doubt either of them has a single 20 point 4th quarter in the last 4 years, and if they do I also doubt any of them would be meaningful baskets and not in a blowout. I don’t know if I’m right or wrong on that, but even if one of them does I doubt they have enough for that to be an effective trump card.
       
      I care far more about sustained quality of play than I do about who has the most arbitrarily set highlight games. This year it is Monroe who has clearly been the better player. I guess their play solely at PF is still somewhat debatable, but I’d still take Monroe this year.
       
      Moose isn’t untouchable for any reasonable person. He absolutely can be moved. He also absolutely needs to get more for him than an average SF who is 27 years old and has had serious health concerns. Chipping in a 28 year old who is a low end rotation piece like Bass doesn’t even begin to even that out, especially since that move significantly cuts into the team’s cap room for next year. If a trade that actually represents fair value for Monroe comes about then the team should jump on it, but a one sided trade like that is just a bad idea.

      • Feb 1, 20148:07 am
        by Simon

        Reply

        I think you touched on an interesting point. Everyone is arguing about which one of Monroe and Smith fits better but I think that argument doesn’t have a clear answer because they both don’t really fit next to Drummond. Maybe we should package them both.
        I know people will probably rip this trade but it makes a lot of sense to me.
        we trade Smith and Monroe to Pheonix for the Morris twins, Okafors expiring and a first rounder, either their own or the one they got from Washington in the Gortat trade. 
        From our standpoint we get two super efficient stretch 4′s who would be ideal next to Drummond, a boat load of cap space and either have one or two draft picks in this up coming deep draft depending on how we play for the rest of this season. 
         
        With that cap space we could upgrade the wings with Evan Turner and Gordon Hayward In the offseason with room to spare. 

        • Feb 2, 20143:08 am
          by oats

          Reply

          Phoenix lives on perimeter shooting, and that trade would ship two guys who can hit the 3 pointer out for 2 guys that can’t despite one of them being really convinced that he can. I don’t know if it really makes that much sense for that team to shake things up that drastically considering they are in a playoff race right now.
           
          I don’t think Evan Turner is actually good. He’s a classic good stats on a bad team guy. He’s only an average efficiency shooter this year, and this is the first time he’s done that in his career so there is also a serious risk of him playing well because it’s a contract year. He’s a solid passer, but he is still awfully turnover prone. He is also a completely uninterested defender. Oh, and he’s a really bad 3 point shooter that tries to avoid taking 3s. I guess it’s nice that he doesn’t force them, but he’s awful for floor spacing. He’s probably the top of my list of free agents to avoid this summer.
           
          I’m a little nervous about Hayward too. He’s shooting .327 on 3s this season. His career average is still at .383 despite that, but a slump that drastic is a little worrying. It’s been so bad that his dropped to only an average efficiency shooter this year, but he was really efficient in his first 3 seasons. He’s actually a better passer than Turner and less turnover prone too. His defense might still be on the the wrong side of average, but he’s still much better than Turner there too. He’s not an ideal fit, but I’m open to bringing him in and hoping that 3 point shot returns. I’d much rather gamble on a slumping player regaining his form than on a guy who takes a giant leap in a contract year.

  • Feb 1, 20142:39 am
    by Ryan

    Reply

    YES!!! If this is true it’s the best news of the year. If we can trade Josh Smith and get anything of value in return it’ll be a huge addition by subtraction and a move forward. I’m elated.

    Trading Josh Smith for Ben Gordon would be a great move if we could get a minor adjustment on the protection so that we keep the pick this year that’d be even better. For the record I in no way shape or form support keeping Ben Gordon after this year.

    If we could get in on swap that would send Josh Smith to Houston and Omer Asik to Portland while bringing CJ McCollum and spare parts our way that’d be good too.

    Sending him to Phoenix for Emeka Okafor would also be a very good idea. Even better would be to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez if the Nets are fool enough to bite.

    I’d also be very, very happy to see us package Charlie Villanueva with Smith in order to give a team some cap relief and hopefully get something in return.

    Basically any deal that gets rid of Josh Smith and keeps us building around Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond sounds pretty damn good. Keep Monroe, Drummond, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and put everyone else on the block.

  • Feb 1, 20143:31 am
    by dMaz

    Reply

    Smith for Green straight up. 

  • Feb 1, 20144:49 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Has anyone else got a bad feeling that this is just a smoke screen? I mean we can’t have the whole league thinking that we don’t have any options now can we.

    • Feb 2, 20144:10 pm
      by Rossko

      Reply

      my thoughts exactly…. drive up the price on monroe by seeming less desperate to move him.

  • Feb 1, 20145:10 am
    by Hooper420

    Reply

    Trade Smith for Affalo, Monroe, stuckey and cv for Carmelo and shumpert and Drumond for nerlens noel and thad young.
     
    smith, stuckey, cv, monroe and drumond
    for
    affalo, carmelo, shumpert, nerlens and t young
     
    face it all the pistons suck and hate playing for the team and living in detroit, especially right now, things get better tho in March and april.  we just need a new team.

    • Feb 1, 20145:41 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      Philly would think they were getting prank called if Dumars offered them that trade

  • Feb 1, 20146:30 am
    by greg

    Reply

    one trade that i haven’t heard is a swap of josh smith and jerebko for zach randolph…he’s declining but on a short deal and wants out of memphis….gasol and smith would complement each other well since gasol can acctually knock down the mid range…getting rid of jerebkos contract should really be a priority as well as trading bynum…maybe you could package both of them for wilson chandler? trading smith for okafor would be fine for me as well and josh smith actually fills their style of play.

  • Feb 1, 20147:27 am
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    @Oats…id rather move Monroe than Smith…but if the Pistons are gonna decide to go with the youth movement, they are better off getting rid of smith now…
    I do not believe Smith value has diminished in this league, and the advance stat people and analytics people look at Smith they’ll say he under performed playing sf on a team with no shooters,…if you look at his production since Cheek had made the focus more about Smith at PF his scoring. and shooting percent is on the rise… 
    So if Houston wanted to upgrade their PF position, asking for Asik who is not playing at all, Jones who has promise but if you’re Thinking win now might no be that win now guy, and a first Rd pick…. is not too steep..Imo

    • Feb 1, 20145:53 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      I don’t think Houston would do that but I also don’t think Smith has anything near the value you do so that makes sense.  I think Houston would trade Asik and Lin for Smith which would be fine with me.  It’d probably make us slightly better but trading Stuckey could probably offset that. Asik and Lin would be rentals and could possibly be moved for some first round picks next trade deadline

    • Feb 2, 20143:20 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Except Smith’s performance at PF has been pretty much exactly as bad on offense as it is at SF. That definitely hurts his value significantly, as does the realization that he has less positional versatility than most people thought. There is a lot more wrong than just him playing out of position. I get that Asik is redundant on Houston, but he’s roughly an equivalent talent and on a more favorable deal. Terrence Jones is not as good as Smith, but he’s younger, cheaper, and a better offensive player. Smith’s particular problems also go completely against the team identity of the Rockets. They are the team that shoots either at the hoop or from 3 while Smith insists on taking tons of long 2s. I don’t think they do a trade of Smith for just those two guys, and to expect them to chip in a pick on top of that is way off.

  • Feb 1, 20148:38 am
    by geof

    Reply

    How about:
     
    Detroit receives: Wilson Chandler and Gerald Henderson
    Charlotte receives: Josh Smith and Andre Miller
    Denver receives: Ben Gordan(‘s expiring contract)
     
    Not sure Denver would want a part of this deal, but I think it makes plenty of sense for Charlotte.
    Gives Detroit two solid (albeit imperfect) wing players who each have one less year on their respective deals.
     
    thoughts

    • Feb 2, 20146:47 am
      by PistonsKnowItAll

      Reply

      I like this deal but Nuggets would say no

  • Feb 1, 201410:02 am
    by JYD for Life

    Reply

    I’m surprised there aren’t more people interested in Jeff Green.  
    He is on a reasonable contract and with his skill sets, I think he would solve a handful of the spacing, perimeter D issues the Pistons have.  
    I do not think Ainge would take on Smith unless G.Wallace is part of that deal…and that’s ok.  
    Adding Green to start (9 mil) and Wallace to come off of the bench, say with one of Humphries(expiring)/Bass(one more year at 6M)/Joel Anthony (1 more year at 4M) addresses a few things: balance to the starting lineup, a big off of the bench and a backup small forward with Wallace.  All of these guys hustle, are solid character guys and you only have Wallace for two more years instead of smith for three.  

  • Feb 1, 201410:31 am
    by Windy

    Reply

    That is great news!!!! We have to ditch one of the two guys either moose or smith…I just thought there was a snowball chance in hell Smith would even be possible…he has a rotten attitude and seems lazy…I think he is the type of defender we need but his overall game is a train wreck…very much like a Rudy Gay type of player, volume shooting and low percentages but an above avg defender when he tries…when he tries…gotta find a dumb team to take him off our hands…ugiri in Toronto ghost rid of Rudy Gay 2 year 40 mil and Andrea Bargnani’s awful deal so its possible…that guy reminds me if a young joe dumars as a Gm, being able to get rid of bad contracts, get picks, let low level guys with a chip on their shoulder round out the roster…now Joe is soft and can’t figure it out…he is the one giving the bad contracts and sitting on his hands 

    • Feb 1, 20145:55 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      Smith is struggling defending the 3 as much as he is struggling shooting

  • Feb 1, 201410:55 am
    by gidi

    Reply

    josh smith to houston, omar asik to boston, jeff green and greg smith to detroit. this is a deal that a) works in terms of salary cap and is b) 50 times more realistic since all the involved teams receive some value (in contrast to the totally biased dream-trades that some people here propose, in which detroit rips off any other team in terms of value).

  • Feb 1, 201411:10 am
    by Corey

    Reply

    The thing that still grinds me the most is that they could have just amnesty’d Gordon instead of trading away a 1st round pick to get out of a year of his contract. And that’s all on Gores- he wanted to save $13m more than he wanted to build a good basketball team.
    everyone who wants to tank this season seems to forget that we still need to give up a 1st- and next year it’s only top 1 protected. 

    • Feb 1, 20145:58 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      next year the draft won’t be as good as this year so that’s why 

      • Feb 1, 20145:58 pm
        by Jon

        Reply

        unless some players stay in school which I suppose is possible

    • Feb 2, 20143:40 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Let’s say the team does nothing and bring back Monroe. If they tank this year they will have another top 8 pick as well as $10 million to spend in free agency. That’s some serious opportunities to add talent. Or the team could actually use the off season to get some semblance of a balanced roster and go hire an actually good coach this time around. Quite simply, the team should be better next year than this year. I think they would be more likely to send a pick outside of the lottery next year if they tank this season. I really can’t see the team sending away a higher pick next year than they would send by trying to win this year, barring injuries of course. Then throw in Jon’s point that this year’s draft class is expected to be the more talented class and the tanking plan does make some sense.

  • Feb 1, 201411:33 am
    by Max

    Reply

    I’d much rather trade Smith than Monroe for one big reason.   It appears the Pistons can’t get even close to equal value in a Monroe trade and I’d rather trade Smith for mediocre talent than Monroe.  There has been many arguments that it’s better to trade Monroe because the Pistons can get so much for him.  Well, what if that is just not true?   When you’re talking about mediocre players, the differences between them are much less and acquiring a mediocre player isn’t difficult because there are so many of them.   Point being: it appears to me that Monroe will likely fetch a slightly better mediocre player in a deal than Smith would but since either would only fetch mediocre talent it’s much better to hold onto Monroe whose is a much more valuable asset in the long term than Smith.  Trading either player is almost guaranteed to bring back a net lot in talent and trade assets but trading Smith minimizes the total loss.  

  • Feb 1, 201412:06 pm
    by Ryan

    Reply

    http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6417822

    This deal could work. We wouldn’t be getting anything great in return but we wouldn’t be stuck with any long term garbage either. There’s clear benefit to both Houston and New Orleans as well. What do you all think?

  • Feb 1, 20141:33 pm
    by jg22

    Reply

    You guys actually buying this? 
     
    For all we know the exact opposite could be truth. All this talk all season about them wanting to move Smith PF, it makes other teams think they are desparate to trade Monroe. If you are the Pistons and thats what you really want to do, you don’t want teams to know that and take advantage of you.
     
    So instead you put a couple fake reports out there, saying you want to trade Smith and keep Monroe. Then those teams interested in Monroe suddenly feel like they have to up their offers if they want to convince you to trade him.
     
    From following Dumars moves over the years, one thing I know is usually the opposite of what is reported is the truth.

    • Feb 1, 20141:37 pm
      by jg22

      Reply

      Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if they traded both at this point. I just think when your team doesn’t really have the look of anything worth building on, then you open your roster to all trades that could make you better (excluding Drummond). So I think they are going to explore all options, but if they can’t find any great deals for Smith to make us better, I think they will look to deal Monroe and keep Smith at PF

    • Feb 1, 20146:27 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      @jg22 What you said is pretty much what I said further up in the comments. I think the pistons are trying the old magicians trick where they want you to look at the hand they want you to while they do something with the other hand. I think the long term goal in this silly game will be so no one offers Monroe a max deal which they are kidding themselves that no one will. By memory there isn’t much to offer this offseason so Moose will find himself a wanted man.

      • Feb 1, 20146:41 pm
        by PistonFanSinceDay1

        Reply

        I don’t know gmehl, I would bet that Monroe’s doesn’t get a max deal. I could see a team offering Monroe 4 year 48 mil deal. No offense to Monroe, but he isn’t a max player.

        • Feb 1, 20148:21 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          I don’t think he’s worth the max either but that doesn’t mean that he won’t get it from another team. When teams like Washington have come out and stated their interest in him this early then I wouldn’t be surprised to see it happen.

  • Feb 1, 20143:56 pm
    by SuperStarRockDJ

    Reply

    Before trading anyone, how about sacking Dumars. Any trade Dumars makes now will set us back another 5 years.

  • Feb 1, 201411:29 pm
    by grizz3741

    Reply

    So glad to hear this! thank you Pistonpowered .. We should have signed a true SF or SG with 3-pt FG capabilities instead .. Smith is nothing but a good PF worth 9 million tops if kept under control .. who should never shoot from the outside unless the shot clock it at 1 second ..  

  • Feb 2, 20146:45 am
    by PistonsKnowItAll

    Reply

    Chandler Parsons for Josh Smith in an offseason sign and trade I have been said this also Rockets wanted Smith which is why they wanted to get rid of Lin and Asik so bad after getting Dwight during the offseason and Josh git snubbed once of twice he should have made the all star team yes he’s having a bad season but he still is very talented his shot selection is what’s so bad his other stats are solid and would likely rise at PF would like to see Josh stay and we get a better coach I’d rather we trade him over Moose but not just to get him off the team only in a smart trade have y’all seen Rondo play since he returned just awful Jennings isn’t a beast but he’s top 5-10 in the NBA in assists he too has bad shot selection but he’s young unlike Josh if we could get a young more traditional SF that would be great not some of these bogus deals suggested just to get Josh out a Pistons jersey wouldn’t the point of trading Josh be to improve the team? and people blame Dumars I blame Gores for making us a playoff or bust team

    • Feb 3, 20143:27 am
      by oats

      Reply

      They wanted Smith because they have a hole at the 4 and he’s buddies with Howard. If they move Parsons they have a hole at the 3 and they would be trading away another buddy of Howard’s. That sounds like a pretty lateral move until you consider the fact that Parsons is younger than Smith, a better player than Smith, and a better fit in their system. There is absolutely no chance of a Smith for Parsons trade happening right now or in the summer.

  • Feb 2, 201411:51 am
    by danny

    Reply

    yes keep Monroe and get rid of smith!!!  maybe you can get a low first round pick or a younger player with potential and more importantly a positive team driven attitude.

  • Feb 2, 20141:19 pm
    by Tiko

    Reply

    Smith for Deng. Cle will lose Deng for nothing this summer. Smith is better than anything else they have outside Kyrie. 

  • Feb 2, 20145:55 pm
    by koz

    Reply

    this team never needed josh smith

  • Feb 2, 20146:01 pm
    by dhscharge

    Reply

    personally, i think that they should just amnesty smith in the offseason and wash their hands of the stink that hes left here

    • Feb 3, 201412:13 am
      by George

      Reply

      personally, i think that they should just amnesty smith in the offseason and wash their hands of the stink that hes left here..
      ————–
      You cant amnesty a guy who signed a contract after the amnesty policy was offered. I think Smith is a lot more tradeable than people act. He’s a versatile, a good finisher and a shot blocking PF with 3 more years at age 28. Those type of players will always be in demand, especially to a good team where he wont be the go to guy. 

      • Feb 3, 20143:45 am
        by oats

        Reply

        About the amnesty, you are right. To make it clear, the Pistons have no chance to ever amnesty someone unless a future CBA offers another one. The last two players eligible for the amnesty were Monroe and CV this past summer and the team declined to use it.
         
        As for Smith’s trade value, I might agree depending on what you mean. People act like he’s incapable of being moved, and that’s simply not the case. Pretty much anyone can be moved if the circumstances are right. Smith is still a starting caliber PF because of his defense at that position, so he has some value. The problem of course is that his play this year is nowhere near worth his contract. That seriously reduces his trade value. The Pistons are looking at likely needing to take back a pretty blah return to get Smith moved. They might need to take a worse player on a shorter deal or they might be looking at bringing in a somewhat average player who might be a bit overpaid, but there are quite a few teams who likely would be willing to trade for Smith.

      • Feb 3, 201410:43 pm
        by JYD for Life

        Reply

        I would disagree with the “good finisher” comment.  
        After 10+ years in the league, the guy can’t make a layup with his right hand.  It’s an embarrassment to anyone who has ever played basketball.  
        Perhaps if he spent less time in the bar during the summer, he might be better at basketball.  
         

  • Feb 3, 201412:09 am
    by George

    Reply

    The conversation is continuously steered the wrong way because people are so focused on ‘the big 3′.
    The Pistons problems have nothing to do with ‘the big 3′ and everything to do with the 3 perimeter spots. Sure Smith plays there some, but he doesn’t have to. This team has horrible perimeter players to execute an offense in the half court. Their PG is weak at it, the others are mostly non-ball handlers or cant shoot. 

  • Feb 3, 201411:32 am
    by houner

    Reply

    simply put  smith is top 5 in is position for assists, steals, and rebounds with being top ten in scoring for his position.  
    bottom line he aint that bad. 
    there was a lot going on this season with all the changes   the real problem is cheeks  blowing multiple double digit leads all in the 4th quarter.  
    when we put it together we beat miami at miami    firts team in the east to beat the pacers   and compete well with a trailblazer team and beat the suns.   
    when we dont    we lose to Milwaukee.
    the problems we have are coaching.
     
     

    • Feb 3, 201412:34 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      His scoring isn’t anything to congratulate Smith over. It’s downright irresponsible for a player shooting that poorly to score that many points because it requires him to miss an awful lot of shots. ESPN just ran an article on the worst players in the league at combining bad shooting with volume shooting. and Josh Smith was declared the worst player at that in the entire league. You’re also lauding him for rebounds and steals relative to other SFs. The problem with that is that being good at steals doesn’t mean he is actually playing good defense. The team’s defense is better with Smith on the bench than with him at SF, so if you are comparing him just to small forwards you can’t ignore the fact that he is a terrible defender at that position despite the fact that his gambling allows him to get steals. Smith is a really bad SF. He does still defend the 4 well enough to be a net positive while playing that position despite his dreadful shooting, but overall he has been really bad this season.

  • Feb 3, 20149:07 pm
    by Charles

    Reply

    At this point, trade Smith for anything as long as it’s good financially. Look at the Raptors without Gay, they’re playing so much better.

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