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Pistons defensive problems start with Maurice Cheeks, as Clippers highlight

Los Angeles Clippers 112 Final
Recap | Box Score
103 Detroit Pistons
Greg Monroe, PF Shot Chart 30 MIN | 1-3 FG | 4-4 FT | 3 REB | 3 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 6 PTS | -13

Blake Griffin (25 points, five rebounds, five assists and a steal) absolutely dominated this matchup on both sides of the floor. Griffin is vastly superior to Monroe athletically, but – even though this disparity was as big as it gets – Monroe is usually at an athletic disadvantage. He typically finds ways to compensate. Today, he was completely overwhelmed.

Josh Smith, SF Shot Chart 42 MIN | 12-22 FG | 0-3 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 24 PTS | +3

The Pistons made a point of posting up Smith on Matt Barnes to start their offense, and it usually worked. Smith shot, passed and Kobe assisted well from that position. In other circumstances, he was a little more out of control, but still generally effective.

Andre Drummond, C Shot Chart 34 MIN | 5-6 FG | 5-8 FT | 11 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 2 BLK | 2 TO | 15 PTS | -4

Drummond and DeAndre Jordan are similar players in that both excel because they’re physically elite. But Jordan (16 points on 11 shots, 21 rebounds and four blocks) is clearly further along. He repeatedly got better position than Drummond today. That’s OK, because Drummond is five years younger, and he’ll get there. Drummond more than played well enough to show why everyone believes in him. There’s little shame in not being as good as Jordan, who has really elevated his game to the next level this season. I look forward to Drummond eventually taking that step.

Brandon Jennings, PG Shot Chart 28 MIN | 0-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 6 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 0 PTS | +2

Jennings forced – and missed – just enough shots to remind you he was there, but he was mostly invisible. On defense, though, that’s progress.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG Shot Chart 20 MIN | 2-4 FG | 2-2 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 6 PTS | +5

Caldwell-Pope had a couple nice moments (a steal and self-started transition opportunity, a confident jumper) and a couple lousy ones (fouling J.J. Redick twice on made 3-pointers). Two of Caldwell-Pope’s steals came immediately after the Clippers got the ball, so today didn’t spotlight his lockdown defense as much as how his athleticism helps in chaos. Overall, the good outweighed the bad. There just wasn’t much of either.

Josh Harrellson, PF Shot Chart 5 MIN | 1-1 FG | 1-2 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 4 PTS | -2

Harrellson made a 3-pointer, but his lack of defensive mobility limits him.

Jonas Jerebko, PF Shot Chart 0 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -1

Jerebko came in to play a little defense at the end of the first half. He fouled Blake Griffin.

Kyle Singler, SF Shot Chart 29 MIN | 3-10 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 8 PTS | -14

Singler was asked to do a lot, and he did some of it. He even ran the point late in the game, which is interesting, and based on how Cheeks has managed this team recently, quite possibly something the Pistons had never practiced before.

Will Bynum, PG Shot Chart 17 MIN | 5-6 FG | 1-1 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 11 PTS | -14

Bynum was aggressive when the Pistons didn’t have much else going, providing the spark they needed. They just didn’t have much else going too often today.

Rodney Stuckey, SG Shot Chart 34 MIN | 11-20 FG | 6-7 FT | 4 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 29 PTS | -7

Stuckey is more focused on scoring than he’s ever been. As long as he does it this efficiently, I’ll gladly take it. He’s made real strides with his mid-range game.

Maurice Cheeks

The Pistons’ defense is horrendous, and the issues are systematic. Detroit’s wings sag inside to protect the paint, leaving closing out on open 3-point shooters nearly impossible. When the opponent penetrates or moves the ball – or, god forbid, both – the Pistons are too frequently out of position to rotate multiple times. It’s as if their defensive gameplan doesn’t account for more than the initial adjustment. Today put both issues on prime display, at least through three quarters. The Clippers had 94 points before losing focus in the fourth quarter. Let’s not overreact to a comeback that got the Pistons no closer than nine. The Pistons have survived at times defensive, because they’re aggressive. Detroit starts five players who, when targeting them, get steals at high rates for their positions. The Pistons still have some defensive liabilities mixed with their good defenders, and that makes creating quality defensive lineups difficult. But Detroit’s defense is fundamentally unsound, and that’s on Cheeks. Patrick and I spent part of the fourth quarter discussing whether the Pistons could/would fire Cheeks this season. As Patrick pointed out, the Pistons don’t have a logical replacement on the staff – their own failing, but an issue nonetheless. Coach Sheed sounds great, but he’s probably not ready. Anybody want to force out Cheeks for Henry Bibby? I didn’t think so. The schedule softens in the next month, and I could see the Pistons at .500 15 games from now. That wouldn’t make Cheeks suddenly a good coach, but that probably pushes him past the point of no return – for the rest of this season, at least.

96 Comments

  • Jan 20, 20143:54 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    No for the Clippers Mo Cheeks
    X-Factor Jennings going scoreless
    Drummond got in Foul trouble early to help on Blake Grifrin… I think Head to Head Drummond and Jordan were pretty even…Jordan did a lot of damage on the board especially when See went out

  • Jan 20, 20143:55 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    2nd half Smith did a good job on Blake… but when Crawford and Riddick score Damn near 50 combined…what can you do?

  • Jan 20, 20144:01 pm
    by smitty

    Reply

    trade for rondo and affalo

    • Jan 20, 20144:08 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      I know this trade doesn’t work out money wise but I was thinking of something like this! 
      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ltof892

      • Jan 20, 20144:11 pm
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        I mean it works money wise…Boston should get more assets. Such as draft picks.  

    • Jan 20, 20147:33 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      @Smitty: Whats the trade scenario?..Rondo on the Pistons would be nice, but we need more scorers…
       
      @Brandon Knight: The Magic wouldn’t want Green..

      • Jan 20, 20148:50 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Yep they’ve got Tobias Harris

  • Jan 20, 20144:05 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    We don’t need Jennings and Monroe. 
    Every single game they get abused on defense. This is not Detroit Basketball. Trade them now. 

  • Jan 20, 20144:06 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    Not happening….
    Why do people want Rondo? I’d rather have G/F that can shoot and defend…that a PG…that hasn’t proven one that he is healthy and to that he can lead a team…
    Rondo did it with KG, Pierce, Allen, Jeff Green and a great coach

    • Jan 20, 20145:21 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      A healthy Rondo was a top 5 PG in the league. This team’s defense is really awful, and Jennings deserves a share of the blame for that because he’s a really terrible defender. Rondo meanwhile has been an excellent defender. He’s only played sparingly in 2 games, but he’s looked pretty good in them. I’d consider that encouraging at least. Trading for Rondo with both his injury issues and the fact that he’s only got one year on his contract after this one is extremely risky, but I understand the interest. I’d do it as long as Detroit gets another real piece back.

  • Jan 20, 20144:16 pm
    by Steve k

    Reply

    Trade stuckey and moose and let the tanking begin. This non-tanking tanking is painful. At least if they obviously made a tanking maneuver, we would know joe has a plan. Right now it’s a sinking ship. 

    • Jan 20, 20144:21 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Cha-ching! Steve you have one new member in me for tank club pistons. Where do I sign.

    • Jan 20, 20144:21 pm
      by Parsons

      Reply

      I agree we need to tank. I’d trade Jennings too and try for the bottom 5 in the NBA.

    • Jan 20, 20145:26 pm
      by rick

      Reply

      Anyone that promotes a losing situation in hopes of getting better plays to much NBA2k. Get that losers mentality out of your head. Let’s tank so we get a high pick when in fact that logic is a fallacy and just plain weak. I guess if you had to pay to see it in person then the opinion would be different. The team is one of the youngest, let the gel then talk about who thy are. They still have no identity and still learning one another. Damn let them play a full year together or make trades before writing the book . I stay away from posting because to much drama from ” know it all fans” .usually content is good but fairweather at best. Just think fans have unrealistic expectations at times and need to let shit play out.

      • Jan 20, 20147:34 pm
        by Jodi aka "The Guru"

        Reply

        Preach to them Rick!..

        • Jan 20, 20149:04 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          He can preach all he likes cause the both of you are only thinking about the short term of just making the playoffs. Think about things like this for a second… If we make the playoffs this season then we lose our draft pick in a loaded draft that could end up having 8-12 allstars in it. Out of those 8-12 allstars 5-6 of them might go on to be hall of famers. Now while other teams like Orlando, Philly, Utah, Charlotte etc etc will end up adding these allstar/hall of famers we will have the SAME SHITTY team. In reality we wouldn’t even be able to claim that we are on the mediocrity treadmill because we’ll be worse than that. Unless Joe can start pulling some moves for our ill fitting parts we are going to be bad for a real loooooong time. All i ask is for you guys to look beyond this season and not just the Pistons. These other teams are going to get better and if you blink you’ll miss it. I vote to tank and you can call it a loser mentality cause I don’t give a sh*t. Dumars is the loser for trading away our 2014 1st rounder in a loaded draft for cap space. 

          • Jan 20, 20149:54 pm
            by Max

            The newer reports mostly seem to be suggesting that this upcoming draft was massively overhyped.   I even just read an article that basically said almost every player taken first in the last ten years would get picked first this year.   

          • Jan 20, 201410:34 pm
            by oats

            I definitely disagree with the notion that Anthony Bennet could go first in this draft. That is definitely not the case. I think this draft could have 7 prospects in it that are better than Bennett. I don’t think Bargnani would belong ahead of those guys, but he somehow went ahead of Aldridge and Aldridge was a similar prospect to what is at the top of this class. Still, if Jabari Parker does enter the draft then he probably would go ahead of either of those two. That said, I know I’ve seen talk of Parker wanting to stay in school because his buddy is a top prospect and heading to Duke next year. I also suspect that whoever wrote that article forgets just how shaky of a pick Andrew Bogut or Kyrie Irving were perceived to be.
             
            This looks like an odd draft to me. There are about 7 guys I could see going ahead of anyone in this past draft, but no one breaks the top 5 in the LeBron draft. I think the best player in the draft is probably Parker, but he could be one of those tweener types that doesn’t quite hit it off on the next level. He could be Melo lite, or he could be Derrick Williams. Joel Embiid is probably the highest upside player and thus my favorite prospect, but he looks like a serious project. Yet we could be looking at 9 potential All Star types. I really like Gary Harris, and everyone has him outside the top 7 in this draft. Noah Vonleh is also often thought of as outside that top 7, and that guy is pretty darn good. Heck, Dario Saric was getting talked about as a potential top pick last year and generally is seen as outside of the top 10 in this draft despite playing really well in Europe. If everyone goes then this draft will be loaded with good players even though the top end talent isn’t franchise altering.

  • Jan 20, 20144:22 pm
    by pistons moribund

    Reply

    Tanking would involve trading Stuckey and playing Bullwinkle more. 

  • Jan 20, 20144:35 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    I think Cheeks deserves an F solely because he didn’t try to play hack-a-Jordan. He shot 0-6 from the stripe with zero intentional fouls. Why not at least try down big late, especially when they started to cut into it in the last 6 or 7 minutes. As for trades, I would love to see Monroe and Jennings for Rondo and a 1st or something along those lines.

    • Jan 20, 20149:55 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      This is some other Max.   

  • Jan 20, 20144:36 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    Hold on….Jennings did t force anything this game…He missed good looks maybe except for one shot on the base line….
    Josh never looking out of Control…He stepped into shots and when he had this mismatch he he exploited it… his defense was great on Griffin the 2nd half…
    If Drummond had a coach like Doc Rivers, he’d be scare … just felt like you have /protect Drummond from cheap fouls…. the 2nd he picked up at the end of the first qrt with like a minute left was point less…Jordan was in the same position nd rivers pulled him…
    it the little things…
    but i wonder what there numbers looked like head to head

  • Jan 20, 20144:37 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    Im predicting a Trade this week

    • Jan 20, 20147:36 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      Yeah I agree…I think we’re going to get someone out of left field too…We need a scorer!..

      • Jan 21, 20149:18 am
        by Patti #1

        Reply

        Gary Neal from Bucks?  Milwaukee wants to get rid of him because of his disagreement with Larry Sanders.  He’s a decent off the bench 3pt weapon that the Pistons don’t have.
        A move without making a huge commitment.  

  • Jan 20, 20144:46 pm
    by Anthony

    Reply

    The last time Stuckey had a good game, we gave him 25 mill for 3 years….. Please not again!

  • Jan 20, 20144:49 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    how about Billups as the coach?

    • Jan 20, 20148:27 pm
      by grizz3741

      Reply

      Love the idea! It couldn’t be any worse .. Sheed or Laimbeer (Sshhhhh… don’t want the Pistonpowered Brass to go ballastic) works for me too ..

  • Jan 20, 20144:52 pm
    by jg22

    Reply

    Trade Cheeks for Bozo The Clown

    • Jan 20, 20144:54 pm
      by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

      Reply

      Cheek might be a the best assist coach in the history of the nba … but he just doesnt have that thing to make him a good head coach…

    • Jan 20, 20149:07 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      @jg22 The circus just called and they’ve rejected that trade unless we throw in CV’s expiring a$$. 

  • Jan 20, 20144:53 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    end of the day …we were 2-14 for 3′s … Clippers were 9-21 for 3′s…
    Riddick had a 2 four point play in this game… one in the 2nd half when we cut the lead to 6 then went back up to 10…and that was huge…
    Pistons are just not a well coached team again

    • Jan 20, 20145:00 pm
      by jg22

      Reply

      As I was watching this game, I’m looking at the players on both sides and thinking this team doesn’t have any more talent than we do without Paul, yet they were dominating us in every facet of the game. 
       
      The difference was simply one team was well coached and one was poorly coached.
       
      Honestly. That was the only difference between these two teams today. 
       
      I saw one team that you could tell their coach was in complete control, and another that played as if they had no coach.
       

  • Jan 20, 20144:55 pm
    by jg22

    Reply

    Honestly. This coach is beyond clueless and unless the Pistons do something about it, nothing will change. Trading players isn’t going to do anything if the same coach is still here putting them in position to fail.
     
    The Pistons are fucked because of this. .

  • Jan 20, 20144:56 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    Im wondering can we flip stuckey and get Barnes

    • Jan 20, 20147:38 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      The Warriors just traded for Crawford and Brooks…Why would they want Stuckey??.

  • Jan 20, 20144:56 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    Getting Barnes would make up for not having a pick in this years draft

    • Jan 20, 20145:09 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      Are u the same guy that was named “I hate Frank”

  • Jan 20, 20144:59 pm
    by Kamal

    Reply

    Give Monroe more touches and clear out.  The Pistons don’t do a good job of spacing when Monroe gets the ball.
     
    Also, our guards do a horrible job of getting the ball inside.  On defense, if any of our players help, our rotations are awful and often late and lead to open 3s.

    • Jan 20, 20145:07 pm
      by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

      Reply

      Greg Monroe will always struggle again more athlete PF/C because he has no confidence in his jump shot…all u have to do is play off of him and not bite on the pump fake his scoring has dropped because teams know how to play him

      • Jan 20, 20145:26 pm
        by Kamal

        Reply

        You’re right.  But that’s when he catches the ball 15 feet out.  I’m talking about feeding him in the post.  They can’t back off of him in the post.

      • Jan 20, 20145:58 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        @ Cheeks. His scoring is down from last year because his shots are down from last year. His second year he only took an extra .3 shots and got an extra point a game. That sounds significant until you realize we’re talking about the difference of shooting 50% this year and shooting 52% that year. That’s an insignificant difference and does not need an explanation. He’s also had an 11% drop in free throw percentage, which is significant but has nothing to do with defense. I don’t see any evidence to suggest that he’s been negatively impacted by defenses figuring him out.

    • Jan 20, 20145:36 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      @ Kamal. I don’t want them clearing out for Monroe. I’d rather they run some off ball action. Say Monroe catches it in the low post. Drummond would then come out to set a pick for KCP near the 3 point line on the opposite side of the court. KCP would use that pick to make a run at the basket. Smith would also set a pick for Jennings near the top of the key, who would then go towards the corner to spot up for 3. That kind of action would move the bigs away from Monroe while also providing him with both a cutter and a spot up shooter as potential outlets for a pass. Monroe’s a good passer and the team should use that to their advantage.

    • Jan 21, 20149:26 am
      by Patti #1

      Reply

      Guards get the ball inside, but the “guys” inside have to be able to catch and hang on to the ball too.

  • Jan 20, 20145:35 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    But that on him to establish post position and last year it was the say thing…but if he is playing PF he need to be effective from the elbow….but if u are saying use rather see him deeper in the paint
    ..then he needs to come off the bench

    • Jan 20, 20146:27 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I don’t think it makes sense to move Monroe to the bench given the assessment Cheeks has given about his lineups. The problem is that Cheeks says he won’t play Monroe and Drummond at the same time and without Smith also on the court. So Monroe would get all the minutes with Drummond on the bench, and a handful in the 3 big lineup. He’d either end up playing around 25 minutes a game, or he’d end up playing a lot in the 3 big set which would not be all that different than just starting him. Going to the bench should be about letting him play with just Smith or just Drummond, but Cheeks won’t do that. I just don’t see a point in benching any of the 3 bigs if Cheeks sticks to that assessment of his lineups.
       
      Anyways, I think Monroe is effective from the elbow. He is dangerous as a passer from that spot. He also has a pretty solid bull rush move that he uses quite a bit from that spot. The problem is that he doesn’t touch the ball as often so he is more focused on scoring this year. On top of that, this team stinks at moving without the ball. Still, I don’t think it’s fair to criticize him on his play from that spot when this team is being so poorly run.
       
      I would also say that he could operate from the low post more often too. Drummond and Smith are athletic enough to be dangerous cutters, and the both are good screen setters. Those are useful skills for manufacturing space. The Pistons don’t really do a whole lot of that because Cheeks runs a pretty isolation heavy offense. Still, this team could create the space for Monroe to work from deep in the post.

      • Jan 20, 20147:29 pm
        by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

        Reply

        Greg is the 2nd Coming off Al Jefferson…he can get his numbers but he does not always impact games…because he does not demand a double team…
        I’ve said it over and over again, Greg game has not elevated at the start of the years everyone said reports, coaches, fans and even Greg that knocking down that mid range would be huge to the Pistons success he does not take that shot..he passes out of it or drives the ball even into a defensive clutter.
        He is only scoring 2 pts less than last year, and only taking 1.5 shots less….but he is getting to the FT more than last year…but shooting 5% less, 10% less than his 2nd year
        Plus he is horrible in man to man defense against any PF with a bit of offensive skill..
        So who cares if he scores 16ppg…when on the other end a guy that normally averages 9-10ppg scored 15-16 points in head to head match up? i’ve defended Greg since we signed him, but I feel like if we are waiting for this next level of play to take place it might not happen…
         

        • Jan 20, 20148:07 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          First of all, you have a serious misunderstanding of Jefferson’s game. Jefferson got doubled teamed all the freaking time because he couldn’t pass out of it. He’s gotten better as a passer, but he still catches a fair number of double teams because he’s still not that good. Monroe’s skill as a passer makes double teaming him risky. Add to that the fact that he doesn’t get enough touches to harm a team too much, and it makes sense that he doesn’t get doubled up on more.
           
          Greg’s defense definitely needs work. It’s also improving. I still think that the biggest problem with Greg’s defense this year has been a schematic one though. Cheeks has the big men switching onto perimeter players aggressively, and the perimeter players aren’t switching to pick up the big men well. The end result is that big men have a tendency to get left alone for too long and that gets the team in trouble. Another problem is that the Pistons want their bigs to get down in the post to protect the paint even when their man is slow getting across half court. That makes some sense when playing traditional big men, but they do that when playing jump shooters. That has led to them getting a lot of wide open looks when trailing the play. They also have yet to actually try hiding Monroe on their opponents bad scorer. Most every team uses a guy that just isn’t a threat to score on any given night, and the Pistons never shuffle around their match ups to get their worst defenders on that guy. I honestly think Cheeks deserves far more of the blame for Monroe’s guy having good games than Monroe does.
           
          Would adding that mid range shot be huge for Monroe? Sure it would. Is it necessary? No, I really don’t think so. I think his passing ability coupled with Drummond’s athletic ability should be enough to create space for them to coexist. Adding Smith makes it tougher, but I still think a good coach could manufacture enough space to get them playing decent on offense. It’s also important to note that not having that shot yet does not mean it won’t ever come. I wouldn’t count on it happening since adding a mid range shot is harder than most people would think, but it’s not something I’d rule out either.
           
          Here’s the thing, a lot of players don’t have a linear rate of development. They tend to appear to plateau for awhile before making a leap. Monroe’s play appears to have plateaued somewhat, but that does not mean this is his ceiling. Given the fact that very few players actually hit their peak at 23, I’d say it’s more likely that he will get better than not. We’re talking about a guy who is still a good 4 years away from his prime. That’s fine, Drummond is probably at least 4 years away from starting to play like he will in his prime. The only scenario I can see for the Pistons becoming real contenders before then is trading away Drummond for a more established star, something I doubt Detroit will be doing. So Monroe’s apparent plateau is a little disappointing, but not something I think is worth getting all that worked up over.

  • Jan 20, 20146:16 pm
    by gtg2013

    Reply

    “The schedule softens in the next month, and I could see the Pistons at .500 15 games from now”
     
    11-4 in the next 15 games? No way.

  • Jan 20, 20146:22 pm
    by Craig

    Reply

    Is there no greater opportunity than for someone like George Karl to come to Detroit mid-season and turn them around in a push to make the playoffs? When coaching costs you games, it’s time to move on!

    • Jan 20, 20148:28 pm
      by grizz3741

      Reply

      It would have to be George Karl next season but .. certainly he has proven he can coach damn well ..

    • Jan 20, 20146:41 pm
      by bob

      Reply

      does anyone think they have enough to give us?  picks, otto porter, or beal would be some of the pieces we’d consider if i had to guess..

      • Jan 20, 20146:51 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Monroe/Stuckey for Beal/Ariza… heck i’ll forge Joe and Gores signatures to get that deal done. Please god make it happen.

        • Jan 20, 20146:57 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6410011
          It works on trade checker so it has to happen. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right?

        • Jan 20, 20147:09 pm
          by bob

          Reply

          id love to get beal, but im pretty sure they’re building around wall and beal

          • Jan 20, 20147:49 pm
            by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

            Wizard will likely make the play-offs this year barring nothing happens like a season ending injury to John Wall….
            So this season is already a success for the Wizard…Beal is  young stud..
            Basically why trade Beal for Greg when if they wait for the Summer they can offer him a max deal anyay and keep Beal?

          • Jan 20, 20147:59 pm
            by gmehl

            “Basically why trade Beal for Greg when if they wait for the Summer they can offer him a max deal anyay and keep Beal?”
             
            That would be because we’ve got his Bird Rights that’s why. If they want him that bad they will have to give something up to get him.

    • Jan 20, 20147:30 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      @Bob: Don’t listen to everything the media tells you…

  • Jan 20, 20146:50 pm
    by smitty

    Reply

    Beal would be sweet. I’d do that straight up. Would was do that?

    • Jan 20, 20146:51 pm
      by bob

      Reply

      doubt it, probably picks and expiring contracts, maybe otto.  beal would be sick though

  • Jan 20, 20146:58 pm
    by pistons moribund

    Reply

    Trade Cheeks for a pimp in DC.  Chauncey for coach.

  • Jan 20, 20147:05 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    @ BK yes I am
    and about Otto Porter NO! …. I told you guys last year he is not an NBA ready player….

    • Jan 20, 20147:10 pm
      by bob

      Reply

      i agree no on otto porter, but to be fair he hasnt been healthy all year.  ideally we could get beal but i doubt they’ll do it.  probably picks and young cheap players.

      • Jan 20, 20148:03 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        You guys are missing the point. If the Wizards want Monroe that bad they will have to give up something to get him. Yes they can make an offer in the off season but we have his Bird Rights so we can essentially give him more money. Beal for Monroe is a fair deal for both sides and if they don’t want to cooperate then the phone SHOULD be hung up instantly.

        • Jan 20, 20148:28 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I don’t think there is any chance of them giving up Beal for Monroe. They see Wall and Beal as the two cornerstones for their franchise going forward. Yes, they probably have to give up something to get Monroe, but that something isn’t Beal. Beal has been better than Greg this year, he’s 3 years younger, and he has 2 more years on his rookie deal after this season. I think there is no chance of him being a part of a deal for Greg.

          • Jan 20, 201410:00 pm
            by Max

            I tend to doubt the Pistons do get deal but I don’t think any deal with Washington would happen unless they do.  

          • Jan 20, 201410:00 pm
            by Max

            Get Beal. 

          • Jan 20, 201410:18 pm
            by Jodi aka "The Guru"

            Forget the Wizards not giving up Beal…Dumars wouldn’t give up Monroe for Beal…Everyone knows the number rule is to never trade big for small…That’s 1st grade general manager class!..

          • Jan 20, 201410:39 pm
            by oats

            @ Jodi. Then 2nd grade would be the exceptions. Like when the small is the better player, when the team with the big is unbalanced because they are too big and they can’t play their guys together, and when the small player is on a more favorable deal. Dumars should do a Monroe for Beal trade, and Washington shouldn’t do it.

          • Jan 20, 201410:57 pm
            by Jodi aka "The Guru"

            @Oats: Touche my fellow Piston fan, touche…I wouldn’t say it’s set in stone that Beal is the better player…Both are good and both are young…Monroe has the potential to be an Al Jefferson type, Beal has the potential to be a Ray Allen/Micheal Reed type…So pick your poison…Once Monroe has the ability knock down that 12-15 footer on a consistent basis, our Smith/Monroe/Drummond front-court will look better…I agree that our big guys look unbalanced at times, but we have to remember this is there first season together…And Smith isn’t a typical 3, so of course there’s going to be chemistry issues…
             
            On the Wizards front, they would do it because Nene is a walking injury waiting to happen…Gortat is good, but he’s getting older…Outside of Nene and Gortat, the Wizards have no size up front…When Monroe plays the 5 full-time he’ll give an opposing team 16pt and 10rebs easily…It might be a slow and nonathletic 16pts and 10rebs, but he’ll somehow make it happen…Wall/Monroe/Porter trio looks good, especially looking at the fact that Wall’s jumper has vastly improved this season…

          • Jan 20, 201411:41 pm
            by oats

            I think you are missing what Beal means for Washington. He puts up 17 points a game while shooting 43% on 3s. Wall’s gotten better as a shooter, but we’re still talking about a guy that makes less than 1 of 3 shots from 3. That’s bad, and they desperately want shooters to help cover for that. Beal’s a fast guy that runs the court well, which is important for playing with a guy like Wall. Beal’s also capable of competently guarding both guard spots, which allows Washington to hide Wall on the weaker offensive player in their opponents back court. To put it succinctly, Washington sees Beal as the perfect back court partner for Wall.
             
            The Wiz do desperately need to get bigger, they just won’t use Beal to do it for a guy like Monroe. They are going to have a ton of money this summer, so if the Pistons match on Monroe then they’d just find someone else sooner than later. I feel like this is where I should also mention that Wall has expressed a desire to play with a big with a mid range jump shot to run pick and pops with, something that Monroe can’t do. They will definitely make a run at Monroe, but they aren’t breaking up the Wall/Beal back court for a guy who isn’t exactly an ideal fit.
             
            What makes sense for them is to try to move Porter, a top 3 pick, in order to get the big man they want. That’s the kind of trade they will be offering. Think Ariza, Porter, and Rice for Monroe and Jerebko. Detroit would have more cap space to spend, a high lottery pick, and another young player in Rice. That’s the kind of out going package Washington is likely looking at. I think Detroit passes on that deal, and they probably do insist on including Beal. I think that Washinton would say that isn’t an option and tell Detroit to call them back if they reconsider the Otto Porter package.

          • Jan 21, 201412:09 am
            by Jodi aka "The Guru"

            You made a couple of good points in the your comment…So basically I think we can both agree that the Wizards aren’t the best trade partners…I too think Dumars would pass on a Porter package for the simple fact that Porter hasn’t proven anything in the NBA…If the Wizards offer Monroe a deal like Hibbert’s, I’ll be pissed, but I think Dumars would match the deal with the mind-set of trading Monroe during a later date if needed…I’m all for trading Monroe if there is equal value out there…We have a big chip in our hands and we shouldn’t let it go for pennies on the dollars…

          • Jan 21, 201410:20 am
            by From the D to DC

            @Oats, I think you nailed it last night (11:41).  They’ll try to go Porter for Monroe, that’s probably a dumb trade (or at least totally speculative) for us, and I don’t think they bite on Beal for Monroe.  Don’t see Stuckey being a big attraction for them – he and Wall wouldn’t play well together.

            The Wiz had some interest in a stretch 4, so we might be able to work in an Ariza for CV (they’re comparable expiring deals) if we don’t take Porter, but I don’t think we really care about renting Ariza for the rest of the season.

  • Jan 20, 20148:31 pm
    by grizz3741

    Reply

    Dan’s analysis of Cheeks was especially HIT-THE-NAIL-ON-CHEEKS today …

  • Jan 20, 20149:05 pm
    by James

    Reply

    Trade Beal for Monroe? The would immediately terminate the Wizards GM. 

  • Jan 20, 20149:18 pm
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    @gmehl….
    What you need to understand is we do not want to get into a bidding war for Greg Monroe…when we signed Josh Smith the hope was all three would work themselves out they havent….I can promise if a team offers Greg big numbers we are not going to match

    • Jan 20, 201410:01 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      That’s really not a promise you can make.

    • Jan 20, 201410:14 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Yeah I’m not arguing with any of that. All the other teams in the league know that joe has backed himself into a corner with the signing of Smith and they all know that he has a decision to make with Monroe. Everyone around here at pistonpowered put a lot of crap on Otis about this subject and know that the deadline is approaching the situation is going to get a lot more desperate for us. I guess the biggest fear we should have is Joe matching any offer for Monroe and then being stuck with our crappy big 3. Even though Monroe and Smith are talented the situation could end up like when we were stuck with Rip and AI. I tell you what though… the day Joe signed Smith all the other GMs in the league laughed there a$$es off.

    • Jan 20, 201410:27 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      Max is right…People don’t know if Monroe will get a big-time deal this summer and even if he did, Dumars could still match the deal and end up trading Monroe later on…We don’t know what Dumars has up his sleeve and most the time people in the media don’t know either…
       
      Knowing Dumars, he’s probably going to make an underrated trade within the next couple of days, match anything Monroe gets offered this summer, and keep Smith running the 3/4…Dumars is loyal to his players…

      • Jan 21, 201412:58 am
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Name Joe’s last 3 trades Jodi. Can you even remember his last one??

      • Jan 21, 20149:48 am
        by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

        Reply

        Greg is going to get Big Money
        Larry Sanders got 11 mil per year, Nikola Pekovic for 12 per-year, and Hibbert (one of Falk guys got 14plus per year),,,,you have to image Greg will an offer of no less than 13 mil per-year…
        Greg is Younger than all of them….Especially Pekovic the example of Pekovic that got his contract at 27-28 years old…. He has more upside than Sanders, and the reason he could get 14 mil like Hibbert is that Greg has never been part of a winning organization…
        Some team starting offer will be atleast 13.5 ….
        Even if we make the play-offs, if all three are not clicking together…then you have to ask is Greg worth re-signing?
        for 13.5? NO….
         

  • Jan 20, 201410:11 pm
    by B.KNIGHT

    Reply

    joe d should have never traded B.Knight  and should have drafted trey burke and not have singed Josh Smith, i don’t care if B.Knignt is 6’3, he could have played the 2 guard just fine for us, just look at how good he is playing for the bucks ,plus Middelton is even better than KCP.  SMDH, I have seen enough of brandon jennings and i know for-sure trey burke will wind up being the better player. B.jennings has a attitude about him like he is superior or something and he doesn’t even have  a right hand for crying out loud. Smith and Jennings both are not leaders. B.Knight will prove in the long run that he is a great character guy with a top notch attitude and work ethic plus he is bigger and more explosive the B.Jennings. Now because of these mistakes we will be bad for another 2 years and we will just be good enough this year to lose the darn draft pick. Joe D should be fired  as soon as the season is over. He did all that he can do for this franchise and needs to be replaced ASAP. He has so many draft blunders it’s not even funny then when we get lucky and get a B.knight u trade him? Anyone who thinks brandon knight doesn’t have allstar potential is a hater and doesn’t know basketball… Monroe has to go and i want Jennings out of here too, Jennings is to Hollywood for me and will never lead us to the finals.

    • Jan 20, 201411:21 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I guess I’m a hater. I think Knight’s basically the same player this year as he was in Detroit. He’s scoring more because he’s on a team so lacking in scorers that they need him to shoot a ton, but he’s still a low efficiency shooter. That would make him a classic good stats on a bad team guy. He’s still a poor passer that turns it over a lot. He’s an ok defender, which would make him better than any Piston on the perimeter other than KCP, but he’s not exactly good on that side of the ball. I still think he’s either a 6th man or a bad starter and I don’t see anything even resembling All Star potential.

      • Jan 22, 20142:40 am
        by B.Knight

        Reply

        your insane, i got 20ppg and 5 assist potential for the next 10 years u goofy……..SMDH

    • Jan 20, 201411:31 pm
      by Jodi aka "The Guru"

      Reply

      I still like Knight…I think he’s a Jason Terry type…Oats spot on with his comment…

    • Jan 21, 20148:48 am
      by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

      Reply

      Sorry even those Jennings is in a horrible shooting Slump he is the better option than Knight or Burke…
      sometimes as fan we are all over the place…First we said Jennings is shooting and turning the ball over too much last month….now in January he is clearly more selective about his shots even to a fault in my opinion… but yet his assist are up and his turnovers are down….
      Overall hasnt been great, but it has been good enough once again and I will say this until it changes…We have no consistent perimeter player except for Singler..its impressive for a PG to get 8 plus ast per-game on a team where no one can shoot the ball consistently….We are last in 3 pt shooting…
      I remember last year soo many people complained that we didnt have a PG that could lead a fast break…Now we are ranked number two in Pts off of fastbreaks (behind The suns who are the best 3 pts shooting teams) and we are ranked top 5 in fast break efficiency..Barely below OKC and the Clippers (two of the better scoring teams)…So you cant blame Jennings on offense 
      NOT SAYING HE IS PERFECT…it just depends on the defensive philosophy….Jennings, If Jenning has been asked to deny the first or 2nd passing options are to funnel his man toward towards help defense, forcing them into tough shots…he has done well… last 3 wins..Carter Williams 4 ast, 4 tos , Wall 6ast 4 tos, Dragic 8 ast 6 tos…
       
      If it shut down his man from scoring..he has been horrible….but if thats the case the whole Pistons team has been horrible…
      http://www.82games.com/1314/13MIL2.HTM – Knight  http://www.82games.com/1314/13DET1.HTM- Jennings
      http://www.82games.com/1314/13UTA2.HTM – Burke
      http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS1.HTM – Rondo (12-13 38 games)
      So basically give the man a break….

  • Jan 20, 201411:49 pm
    by MRCARTER

    Reply

    Three team trade I’ve been working on:
     
    DETROIT GETS: Arron Afflalo, Steven Adams and Andre Roberson
    OKLAHOMA CITY GETS: Greg Monroe
    ORLANDO GETS: Kentavious Caldwell Pope, Charlie Villanueva, 2014 1st round pick(from OKC) and a 2014 2nd round pick(from DET)
     
    For the rest of this year, just start Singler at small forward and shift Smith to power forward. And then, this offseason, go after Luol Deng with the $11mil in cap room we’ll still have.
     
    NEXT YEARS STARTERS= Jennings(PG), Afflalo(SG), Deng(SF), Smith(PF), Drummond(C)
    NEXT YEARS BENCH= Bynum(PG), Billups(SG), Roberson(G/F), Singler(SF), Mitchell(F), Jerebko(PF), Adams(C)
     
    Doesnt sound too unrealistic does it?

    • Jan 22, 20142:38 am
      by B.Knight

      Reply

      no, just no……… not gonna happen, u are wasting your valuable time in life typing this non sense… LOL

      • Jan 22, 20146:05 pm
        by MRCARTER

        Reply

        Wow, didn’t know six year olds knew how to use the internet.

        • Jan 23, 20141:59 am
          by B.Knight

          Reply

          i know u are but what am i?………..LMMFAO…………LMMFAO…………….LMMFAO
           
           
          :0

          • Jan 24, 20141:00 am
            by MRCARTER

            I rest my case

  • Jan 21, 201410:22 am
    by freeparty

    Reply

    Comparing Drummond to Jordan is not worthy of a franchise player.  Either tout him as the next Dwight Howard or not at all.  Getting dunked on throughout the game and getting outrebounded is not worthy of a “A” performance.  If it was Monroe and not Drummond the grade would be “C-”.  Might as well pencil in “A” for the rest of the year for Drummond by the evaluations.

  • Jan 21, 201410:37 am
    by ITS OFFICIAL I HATE CHEEKS

    Reply

    @Oats….. They also have yet to actually try hiding Monroe on their opponents bad scorer. Most every team uses a guy that just isn’t a threat to score on any given night, and the Pistons never shuffle around their match ups to get their worst defenders on that guy. 
    Where can you hide him defensively?
    last Night it was unfair to match him against Blake, I said that from the start…but then he was matched with Jordan he looked slow… you cant put him at SF…
    at best he can defend the the post…but he does not shot block, or discourage anyone from attacking the rim…
    He doesnt even take charges…he has great hands, and time to poke the ball away and sometimes those are better than blocks…but overall Greg I believe is the weak link to our defense… along with Cheeks coaching

    • Jan 21, 20146:33 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      The Clippers are an unusually bad matchup because they have 2 guys that are the type of athletes that abuse Monroe up front. But yes, I’d put him on the SF. Barnes shoots 37% from the field and 28% from 3. He also happens to be slower than either Griffin or Jordan. If they want to rework their entire offense to try to exploit a terrible offensive player like Barnes matched up against Monroe then let them. I think Chris Paul is a smart enough player to not care that Monroe is on Barnes and continue having his team do what they usually do instead of forcing things to Barnes. Except then Detroit would have better defensive matchups on Griffin and Jordan, so maybe it wouldn’t be quite as awful. Everyone on Detroit played poor defense on Monday, so it probably wouldn’t matter all that much. Still, it does make more tactical sense to me for Monroe to defend Barnes.

    • Jan 21, 20146:45 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Oh, and I still think that Jennings is at least as big of a weak link defensively, and maybe bigger. Almost every play starts with him getting beat. Sometimes that leads to open shots for the PG, and other times it leads to easy passes to now wide open players because the defense had to help out Jennings. He’s not the only one. Smith is just as bad at the 3 as anybody else at their respective positions. He has no understanding of rotations, how to fight through screens, or how to close out on shooters. He’s been an awful perimeter defender. Detroit has 3 starters that are bad at defending their starting position, and they have a coach who has set up a really bad defensive system and insists on using those guys this way. There is a lot of fault to hand out and it’s weird to just single out Monroe like he’s really the entire problem.

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