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Look how bad the Detroit Pistons are in fourth quarters

The Pistons are bad in fourth quarters. You already knew that.

But just how bad are they? They’re the worst fourth-quarter team in the league:

And it’s not just one side of the ball holding them back, either:

You can read more of my thoughts on the Pistons’ dreadful fourth quarters at ProBasketballTalk.


  • Jan 6, 201410:55 am
    by labatts


    That’s why I only watch the first three quarters.

  • Jan 6, 201410:58 am
    by sebastian


    Damn, something has to be done. And, Mo’ thinks that it is an issue of quality shots and better ball moment. Yeah, right, Coach McGoo.
    And, where in the hell is Joe. He must be in deep discussions with his realtor, as I am sure he is putting his house and other Michigan property up for sale, right about now.

  • Jan 6, 201412:26 pm
    by MIKEYDE248


    I think it all goes back to the coach.  If he says they are playing different in the 4th quarter than the rest of the game, he should be asking them why.  If he is calling the plays, then it’s his fault for sure.  If it’s the players just playing different…like Jennings & Smith jacking up bad shots, then it’s up to the coach to force his players to play the way he wants them to.

    • Jan 6, 201412:55 pm
      by Vic



    • Jan 6, 20142:26 pm
      by Patti #1


      Miss or make, this is how many shots these guys took in the second half:
      KCP – 5, Monroe – 6, Jennings – 6, Smith – 5, Bynum – 6
      It concerns me less that Smith and Jennings combined for 11 shots in a half than the fact that Andre only took 2.

      • Jan 6, 20145:01 pm
        by Otis


        Dear, Andre can’t create his own shot, or at least he’s not good at it yet. Furthermore, with Josh Smith and Grag Monroe and their respective defenders occupying the painted area, it’s not particularly easy for Andre to sneak in and catch lobs. For the time being, until he develops some solid post moves, Andre is going to get a limited number of shots and that’s okay. This team has far worse problems than him not shooting enough, or even Smith and Jennings shooting too much.

        • Jan 6, 20149:31 pm
          by MrHappyMushroom


          “Dear”? WFT?

          • Jan 6, 20149:35 pm
            by Otis

            It’s called being a gentleman.

  • Jan 6, 20141:00 pm
    by Smitty


    Everything will be better Cheeks called a team meeting today! Pistons will probably win out now.

  • Jan 6, 20141:01 pm
    by Otis


    I think it boils down to two interrelated issues: Coaching and team makeup. Obviously coaching is a serious problem, and if you ever thought Mo Cheeks was an adequate candidate, then may God have mercy on your soul. He may be 30% more eloquent than Michael Curry, and maybe he’s personable (which certainly couldn’t be said for Kuester and probably isn’t true of Frank), but from a basketball standpoint he looks as bad as any coach we’ve had here. He came here with red flags that he was disorganized and lazy, and BOY has he lived up to it.
    The other problem is makeup, obviously. You simply can’t put the best five man unit on the floor. Basically everybody has some kind of hierarchy where they know who their best players are, and with pretty much 100% of other teams, their best players combine to form their best units rather than combining to make the team so easy to defend that most college teams could probably get the job done. This team can only hurt you from one 12 x 15 area of the floor. That’s not very much ground to cover. Early on I think teams were being a bit too conventional with us, but the scouting report is out and teams just f*cking collapse on that paint, like they should have been doing from the beginning.
    Say what you want about Lawrence Frank, and god knows I was never a fan, but he at least had a vision and a game plan. A lot of you hated it, but it was a firm strategy, and I think he’s been validated by what’s going on this year. With a lot less talent to work with, Frank coached this team to a very similar record through this point in the season. There are two ways to rotate a tandem of centers like Monroe and Drummond, and I don’t see how you could honestly say they bring the best out of each other. I thought each of them looked much better individually last season when they almost never shared the court than they do together. And since there’s not enough minutes to go around at center… well, you guys know how I feel. But no matter how bad a job Cheeks is doing, if these two were some juggernaut of talent and this perfect dominant match, you’d think they’d be able to power their way to wins in at least SOME of these games that repeatedly slip away. The evidence is mounting. And yes I know Smith isn’t a small forward, but neither is Greg a power forward. He’s been completely exposed, and the more time we waste making excuses and pointing the finger at little insignificant factors, the worse shape we’ll be in by the time we eventually have to face reality.

  • Jan 6, 20141:36 pm
    by Otis


    Dan, I’d also like to give you some props for the content. When things are going this bad, usually the blogs don’t have much content because it’s easier to ignore a dying dog in the corner of a room than to acknowledge it and deal with the awkwardness that it’s just lying there dying and nobody is doing anything about it. Much better to keep diving into the problem and addressing it, because obviously it’s not going away. Something about the eerie silence is very unsettling (no trade rumblings AT ALL; no finger pointing at Joe, the actual source of the problem; once in a while you’ll have a random Free Press article where some feeble “journalist” announces that something’s got to give, but then the next win and everything is suddenly hunky dory, the ship righted itself, and we forget about the awful eight game stretch that preceded that lonely win and act like it’s clean slate time). It’s like they’re just waiting around for that win so they can pretend it’s a sigh of relief when it’s really just another death rattle in a slow and painful death.
    So thanks again for being at least somewhat of a voice of reason where I don’t have to pretend Greg Monroe is a special basketball player to be accepted.

    • Jan 6, 20141:40 pm
      by Otis


      (Not that I’m actually “accepted” around here. Bahaha)

  • Jan 6, 20143:23 pm
    by gmehl



    • Jan 6, 20144:26 pm
      by josh


      About time to start.  Shouldn’t be hard to let two more teams pass us, tell smith he can only shoot jumpers and everything will take care of its self.

      • Jan 6, 20144:42 pm
        by Parsons


        Yeah all we have to do is keep this pace. Cleveland, New York, and Brooklyn could all pass us relatively soon even if we don’t tank. They’re all picking up steam (except Cleveland who’s picking up a new player).

    • Jan 6, 20145:03 pm
      by Otis


      Doubt it ever happens. And if it does, it’s going to be prompted by Gores. And if Gores is going to initiate a much needed tankfest, I’d imagine the first domino to fall will be Joe’s much-deserved, long-awaited dismissal.

  • Jan 6, 20146:55 pm
    by Corey


    At this point I’d be happy to see JoD canned and a tanking-inspired fire sale. This team is unwatchable. not a good return on his “must win” summer

    • Jan 6, 20147:14 pm
      by Otis


      I’ve been “at this point” for about three solid seasons now. Maybe four. And no hollow, fleeting win streak in that time has changed my mind. This team is completely broken. Don’t count on anything changing. Count on Gores sitting quietly on his hands while this team ends as badly as possible (swift, humiliating playoff exit, or maybe even missing them altogether but not by enough to keep our pick) and let Joe’s contract expire so he doesn’t have to actively fire that “Legendary” piece of shit, but the damage will be done by then. If we don’t do something significant at the trade deadline, no amount of wheeling and dealing is going to result in a good Pistons team next season. Mark it.

  • Jan 6, 20148:01 pm
    by Corey


    Otis, I’ve been thinking you were too doom and gloom all year, but now I’m right there with ya. You were just the vanguard.

    • Jan 6, 20148:36 pm
      by Smitty


      Same here. I had a lot of optimism to start and now I can’t wait for trades and firings.

      • Jan 6, 20149:39 pm
        by Otis


        Thanks, guys. Nobody likes to be the bearer of bad news, not even me (honest!) but there’s no sense living in denial. I’m especially sad to say that I don’t think anything is going to get done in February, and by July this team is going to be doomed to several more years of mediocrity. There’s still technically time, but as usual I’m not optimistic. February 20 is D-Day and this team probably never quite recovers from the damage that’s been done.

      • Jan 6, 20149:57 pm
        by Otis


        Let me expand on that a bit. I’ve said it elsewhere, but it bears repeating:
        Tom Gores may be a fantastic businessman, but sports is a very different kind of business than most. For instance, if you own Target or Applebee’s, absent any scandal or health code nightmares (see: Chi-Chi’s) the value of the company isn’t likely to suddenly fall off the cliff at the stroke of midnight on any given day. It’s not even like the stock market, though that’s a closer approximation. It takes a real sense of when to buy, sell, trade to maximize your value, and you can hit the jackpot or completely screw yourself at the drop of a hat.
        If Gores has been sold the story that Monroe is some fabulous face-of-the-franchise caliber player who must be retained at any cost (whether financial or at the team’s peril) regardless of how mightily this team will struggle to get him to mesh with our actual fabulous face-of-the-franchise caliber player, then he may be convinced based pretty much on the word of Joe Dumars that the kid is untouchable. Likewise, if he’s dead-set on winning as much as humanly possible THIS season (despite the fact that at this point it’s clear that this team is constitutionally incapable of any meaningful “winning” this season) he just might not understand the value of being a seller at the deadline. It should be clear as day that if you can move Stuckey right now for some useful building block, there is no rational argument against it, but if he’s sold on the impossible goal of winning now, he just won’t see it. Hey, if this season doesn’t work out, how much could our fortunes really change between February and July? Unfortunately the answer is basically 180 degrees. With the right two trades, I truly believe next season we could finally be the up-and-coming team the organization has been pretending it is. But failure to act will likely result in a carbon copy of this season, only with far less flexibility going forward.
        If Gores trusts Dumars and has been gobbling up the turds Joe has been dropping (God knows how easy it is to be completely hypnotized by one fluky championship a full decade ago) we might be f*cked so hard you wouldn’t believe it.

  • Jan 6, 20148:03 pm
    by Corey


    That may have been unclear: I mean you have been right

  • Jan 7, 20142:17 am
    by JYD for Life


    First – the Joe bashing needs to stop. So much has been said over the years about “he shouldn’t have drafted Darko,” “he shouldn’t have signed or traded this guy, or should have traded for that guy.”   Any fan of any organization can say that at any point.
    Let’s look at the facts – He manufactured one of the best decades in the history of the organization.  One championship and close to a second in the 2005 NBA Finals, six consecutive Eastern Conference Finals and overall, he assembled teams with quality guys who connected well with the residents of the “Great state of Miiii-chigan.”
    Boston (1), Dallas (1), Houston (2), Detroit (2), Miami (3), San Antonio (4), Lakers (5) and Chicago (6) are the organizations that have won the Larry O’Brien since 1990.
    The vitriol and fair-weatheredness from the wildly passionate (or less than ardent, based on the attendance numbers) fan base is beyond unreasonable.
    Any team in the league would be elated to have a run of six conference finals, let alone two NBA Finals appearances within that stretch.  Within every organization, there are a ton of would-haves, should-haves and could-haves.  How many more titles would the Lakers have if the Chris Paul deal would have gone through?  How many less titles would Miami have had LeBron stayed in Cleveland?  
    Looking at the big picture – Joe doesn’t answer to the fan base.  He has an owner and a team of executives who have some input.
    Personnel decisions and basketball operations fall under Joe’s scope of job responsibilities; but if you think that the Executive Vice Presidents of Sponsorship Sales and Ticket Sales do not have the owner’s ear, then I have some beachfront property in Alaska that I’m looking to sell and we should talk…
    The level of success beyond the finals runs kept tickets moving and ad revenue rolling in.  Unfortunately, some decisions made were not just about basketball.
    Factor in the death of Mr. Davidson and an estate looking to sell the team and Joe’s ability to make moves was incredibly limited for a few years, which resulted in a few rushed decisions (which he should take the blame for).  CV and BG were terrible.  AI was worse, but he was doing something.  You can’t win every trade or every trophy.  
    Did anyone in 2007 or 2008 say that Afflalo should start over Rip or Amir should have started over Sheed?  Didn’t think so…perhaps Joe respected those guys enough to trade them to teams where they would get playing time. He trusted Hammond to “take care” of Amir and he did…the guy has thrived in Toronto.  
    With his hands tied, he did what every other team does, builds through the draft…which he has done a fine job with.  
    The Cheeks and Smith Signings are puzzling…but lets see what he does in the next four weeks.  
    Instead of complaining, offer up some solutions…and stop swearing.  

  • Jan 7, 20142:25 am
    by JYD for Life


    Lets look at what this team needs instead of saying how it doesn’t work…seriously, they’re a few moves away from being legit.  Once you’re in the playoffs (ideally as a 3 or 4 seed), you never know if LeBron will turn an ankle or Chris Paul separates a shoulder…regardless of how inept Cheeks may or may not be.  
    They need a true SF, a backup veteran PG and defense off of the bench.  
    The bench was out scores 53-22 (large in part because it was a blowout) yesterday…Jennings accounts for 8 of the teams 20 assists per game.  
    What’s out there?
    Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries for Villanueva Jonas and Stuckey?  Boston wants to unload Wallace’s contract (Which is terrible, but would be off the books by the time Drummond is up for an extension). We would solidify a bench without giving up any assets.  
    I love adding Jeff Green and Josh Smith to that deal, but it would be highly unlikely that would happen.  
    Josh Smith for Marion and Dalembert- pure salary dump, but I doubt Dallas would do that and I realize Joe most likely wont trade Smith.  
    Andre Miller and Javale McGee (and a future 1st – they have additional picks this year and next, I believe) for Stuckey and Villanueva or Andre Miller, Javale McGee and Gallinari works for Smith/Stuckey/Villanueva – I would think that if we take McGee’s contract off of their hands, Gallo would be expendable.  The question is would they want Smith?  Also, Joe’s reluctance to move Smoove. 
    Villanueva and Stuckey for Big (extremely large) Baby and Jameer Nelson – strictly a dump for Orl.  We would have one more year of each guy and a stimulation to the local economy…specifically fast food restaurants on opdyke.  The only foreseeable problem is minutes (and Glen’s weight problems) with both guys taking a reserve role.  

    Get a good laugh at these or tell me I’m crazy, but It’s not rocket science…there is a simple formula that works and it’s called talent+depth+leadership=wins. 
    Maybe the plan all along has been to “unintentionally” be bad…maybe he knew this wouldn’t work and somehow we sneak into the bottom 10 to get a decent shot at the top 3.  Maybe we are the fools wasting time trying to figure out how to fix something that doesn’t want to be fixed yet?  

  • Jan 7, 20142:49 am
    by gtg2013


    What’s with the two graphs? Aren’t they the same?

  • Jan 7, 201412:06 pm
    by Rodman4Life


    Thanks for the graphs, Dan.

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