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Drummond is amazing, but Pistons still somehow lose to incredibly beatable Pellies

New Orleans Pelicans 103 FinalRecap | Box Score 101 Detroit Pistons
Greg Monroe, PF Shot Chart 25 MIN | 4-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 11 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 5 TO | 8 PTS | +7Monroe played a solid game. But he never felt like a difference maker in this one.8 and 11 in 25 minutes and that’s all Monroe gets too play. The 5 TOs suck and his defense wasn’t exactly inspire, but consider Monroe marginalized.

Josh Smith, SF Shot Chart 36 MIN | 6-12 FG | 0-1 FT | 5 REB | 4 AST | 4 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 13 PTS | +613 and 5 in 36 minutes. For better (at least he played pretty well this game) or for worse (still hugely productive), consider Smith emphasized.

Andre Drummond, C Shot Chart 39 MIN | 9-17 FG | 3-6 FT | 20 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 2 BLK | 2 TO | 21 PTS | +11Andre Drummond, C Drummond was awesome. He built up an almost insurmountable lead.

Brandon Jennings, PG Shot Chart 37 MIN | 7-20 FG | 12-14 FT | 1 REB | 7 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 28 PTS | +1Jennings got to the line a lot and only turned the ball over once. And he didn’t get burned on D either (although that’s probably largely because he was defending Brian Roberts who doesn’t really have the potential to burn a team. Still, this was nearly a perfect Jennings game and it was wasted

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG Shot Chart 41 MIN | 6-12 FG | 1-1 FT | 2 REB | 2 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 14 PTS | -1KCP played well on offense, but he is there for his defense, and he was the primary culprit in letting Morrow go off in the 4th and steal the game. Unacceptable.

Kyle Singler, SF Shot Chart 24 MIN | 1-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 3 PTS | -15Singler was useless on both sides of the floor. He earned every bit of his -15.

Will Bynum, PG Shot Chart 11 MIN | 1-2 FG | 2-2 FT | 0 REB | 3 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -3Bynum played well but wasnt on the court enoguh to make a difference

Rodney Stuckey, SG Shot Chart 27 MIN | 3-9 FG | 3-4 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 9 PTS | -16See Kyle Singler.

Maurice Cheeks
When you lose a double digit lead in the final 9 minutes, there was probably some bad coaching. I don’t buy it, but it really does look like a tank job.

105 Comments

  • Jan 25, 201410:54 am
    by Javell

    Reply

    Andre drummond! All star…pistons tank for jabari parker

  • Jan 25, 201411:26 am
    by Smitty

    Reply

    FRANK THE TANK! FRANK THE TANK! It’s so good once it hits your lips!

  • Jan 25, 201411:28 am
    by jg22

    Reply

    Can fans please stop with the tanking talk?
     
    They aren’t getting Jabari Parker. Even if nothing improves they will be lucky to get the 8th pick, if that, and end up with Rodney Hood at best. I don’t know about you, but I don’t see him changing this franchise. So I’m not interested in losing on purpose just for a player that might make us a little bit better.

    • Jan 25, 201411:38 am
      by Smitty

      Reply

      I said yesterday that it would probably be easier to make the playoffs. Not with this shit though. After these last two games it’s clear our defense is trash, complete trash. Until we can move some pieces this looks like a tank job. If that’s the case then they better start tanking hard. 1 1/2 games out of a top 5 pick right now. If they trade stuckey for a prospect or a pick and Monroe for a prospect and some picks they could really do it.

    • Jan 25, 20141:26 pm
      by George

      Reply

      I agree with both of you. Its going to be almost impossible for this team to get to a top 8 pick, as bad as they look now, they have too much talent to lose that much. I know they’re close but they’ll win games almost by accident down the stretch when teams really start tanking. 

    • Jan 25, 20145:22 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      The difference between where they are and a top 5 chance at the lottery isn’t that big. It’s hard to see them get there, but even as high as 6 gives them some hope of landing a top 3 pick. Even without that lottery luck we’d still be talking about someone like Marcus Smart. Even if you are right and they just end up picking 8th, I actually like the Gary Harris, Dario Saric, and Rodney Hood group that will still be hanging around. Actually, someone like Noah Vonleh will likely still be around to give Detroit a chance to move down in the draft while still getting someone from that group. I know none of those guys are franchise changers, but they are solid young prospects. This team already has it’s franchise changer in Drummond, so now they just need to get him some talent to work with. Tanking is still a pretty logical way to do that.

      • Jan 25, 20146:03 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Staying the course will let us keep our draft pick. Cleveland, New York and the Lakers are about to over take us and Sacramento might too if Cousins and Gay come back soon. Just those teams alone passing us will pretty much guarantee us the 6th pick with huge chance in moving up.

        • Jan 25, 20146:27 pm
          by Parsons

          Reply

          Technically the team with the best odds never gets the top pick so if we fall to 3 or 4 we might actually get the #1 pick. Just saying. Honestly I want to dump our players and tank. Not to achieve a #1 pick and pray its LeBron but because this team just doesn’t have a winning mentality. We got Jennings and Smith who were my 2 most likely to never win a championship. None of the pieces fit. Theres turmoil again against the coach. I really don’t see anyone beyond Drummond and Singler who are even worth keeping. No one has any heart, no one cares what Cheeks has to say and they showed it last night when they didn’t call a timeout when he’s screaming at them to, and they play every game like they lost before tipoff. I’d rather tank and try again with a team of players who act like professionals who worked their asses off to get here than try it with this heartless band of movable parts.

          • Jan 25, 20148:11 pm
            by oats

            Technically the team with the worst record has won it 3 times since 1990, so it’s not never. That’s actually pretty typical of something as randomized as the lottery. In any given drawing the best odds of getting the top pick lay with the team with the worst record, but there could be 100 straight drawings without that happening. That doesn’t change the odds, it’s just the nature of randomized events. That little math lesson aside, yes the Pistons could get the top pick, but it’s not all that likely. They probably won’t get into the top 4 slots, and even if they do it requires a lot of luck to win from any position in the lottery.

          • Jan 26, 201412:12 am
            by Parsons

            First 3 for 23 is pretty close to never so sticking with it. Second I feel like being a bottom 4 team and securing a high pick has better odds than us fighting of 6 teams and making an irrelevant trip to the playoffs. Smith and Jennings are never going to win a championship I’d rather dump them and try again. Our next GM is going to do that anyway. Theres no reason to keep Jennings or Smith, their far too stupid to ever get us past the first round. Theres no reason to keep Monroe either, we have a Center and he sucks at PF. He cannot play 2 positions, he only has 1. He’s a great Center but he ONLY plays Center. We have our Center for awhile and its not him. We don’t even have a SF so that needs to be addressed. I do like the KCP/Stuckey combo though but Stuckey may have more value traded so then he must go too. Honestly KCP, Drummond, and Singler are the only ones I really want to keep and since that isn’t a championship caliber rotation we must admit we suck and try again next year.

          • Jan 26, 20144:04 am
            by oats

            I honestly wouldn’t have corrected the never statement if you weren’t using the word technically, which means based on precise facts. The precise facts are that the team with the worst record has won it, so it was technically wrong. Without that word it’s simple hyperbole, but with it the sentence is just plain wrong.
             
            I really hate the claim that either Monroe or Drummond are just centers. People almost always complain that he can’t shoot, but shooting is not in any way a requirement to play PF. Most people have no problem with someone like John Henson, Derrick Favors, or Larry Sanders playing PF. What do any of those 3 guys do that Drummond doesn’t do? The fact of the matter is that the PF position has no demands that Drummond can’t meet. Drummond is big enough to guard centers so everyone calls him a center, but he’s easily as capable of playing PF as well. As for Monroe, he’s not really good at defending either position. Given that, I don’t know how we can pretend like he’s actually more qualified at one position than the other.
            I don’t get why people feel the need to place labels on these guys. That is way less relevant than if they can coexist. I think they can, and what little evidence we have supports that. When they’ve been paired and without Josh Smith at SF they’ve been good. Last year in limited minutes they played well together too. We know we can’t play them with a SF as terrible on both sides of the ball as Smith has been this year, but that’s not exactly a problem if the plan is to dump Smith anyways. I get that information is fairly limited and it’s possible that they won’t work that well together, but all of the evidence we have is that they both play well if the lineup around them makes any sense at all. I really don’t feel like there is some imperative to move Monroe, but I definitely wouldn’t complain if he needs to go in order to rework the team.

          • Jan 26, 20147:05 am
            by gmehl

            @oats I have a couple of questions for you:
            1) say we were to keep Monroe and dump Smith, who could you see as a realistic target for our future SF?
            2) what kind of $$$ per year would you be willing to pay Monroe and how many years assuming Smith is traded?
            3) what have you heard about the nba’s new tv deal and the salary cap and with the assumed annual rises could this infact allow us to keep Monroe and then give Drummond a max deal further down the line?
            Sorry for all the questions but I thought it applied to you being on the willing to trade Smith and keep Monroe/Drummond. I am not keen on Smith or Monroe and as of late have leant towards the trading Monroe group.

          • Jan 26, 20149:20 am
            by oats

            @ gmehl. 1) If the team clears out some salary cap space then they could make a run at Gordon Hayward in free agency, although he’s restricted and there are rumors that Boston wants to get him join his former college coach. Wesley Johnson, Luol Deng, Danny Granger, and Trevor Ariza should all be unrestrictred free agents. Deng likely gets too much, Granger has injury issues, and the other two aren’t worth the entire $10 million Detroit has to offer. Still, there are options. I would prefer going after Lance Stephenson, although he is a little short for a 3. I wouldn’t be too surprised if KCP could even bulk up enough to play the 3 down the road. If the team manages to keep it’s pick and ends up drafting around 8 then Rodney Hood or Dario Saric could be real possibilities. If they wait until 2015 then Khris Middleton and Marcus Morris will be restricted free agents. Gerald Green, Jared Dudley, Marco Bellinelli, Danny Green, and likely Rudy Gay will be free agents. The wing spots are the easiest to find guys that are productive in the game. Heck, even the second round has produced some solid wing players lately. Given the kind of progress he’s made already, I wouldn’t be too surprised if Kyle Singler turned into a starting caliber SF. I don’t have a specific player to target, but the team should be able to find a decent player at that spot sometime in the next few years.
             
            2) 4 years and $62 million is the max for Monroe, and I think he’s already proved himself worth that. He’s 23, he put up a 16 and 10 last year, he’s a good passer, his defense and efficiency have improved a bit this season, and he’s really healthy. Yes, I think that’s worth a max deal. He might not even get that, although if I were to guess I’d say that he likely gets a max offer. We’ll see how it plays out, but I’d be prepared to match any offer he gets.
             
            3) I’m under the impression that it doesn’t really matter too much because they can afford to max them both out anyways. Let’s pretend they even keep Smith. Let’s also say they spend the $10 million in cap space they have to spend before giving Monroe his contract, and then they max out Monroe. That takes them over the cap, but they stay under the tax line. Then in 2015 they renounce Bynum, JJ, and Datome. As long as the cap doesn’t drop they can bring back Singler and pick up a couple cheap bench players to try to fill out the rotation. They’d be pretty much minimum salary guys, but there are always a few guys that can give spot minutes playing at that price. Then in 2016 they will need to give Drummond a deal. Luckily, Jennings will have his contract expire that summer. Let’s say the cap doesn’t move much at all. In that case they can give Drummond his max deal but they might not be able to afford to keep Jennings without going into the tax. They could either decide to hit the tax that one year, and hitting the tax line for that one year isn’t all that bad, or they could let Jennings walk. Losing Jennings is hardly the end of the world. Then after that Smith’s deal finally ends and they have a bit of cap space again. If they had gone into the tax to keep Jennings then Smith’s deal ending would bring them out of it and keep them from getting the repeat tax offender penalties.
             
            That’s all assuming the team doesn’t move Smith or Monroe. If they actually manage to unload Smith for a deal that ends sooner then they easily get to keep Jennings, or maybe even have enough cap space to try again with someone else. That’s also without any assumptions about the cap significantly moving, and it definitely could move significantly. The league’s ratings are up and they have that new television deal coming. If it’s a big pay day for the league, and most people think it is, then the cap might rise considerably and this might be even less of a problem.
             
            I’m actually open to moving Monroe though. I think it’s important that the team gets good value for him if they do decide to move him though. Just dumping him for any old SF would be a mistake. He’s the only really good trade piece the team has, so I’d be shopping him for a chance to make the team better. If a legitimately good trade doesn’t present itself then I’d switch to trying for just getting out of Smith’s deal sooner, even if it means bringing back a bad player. The reason is that I think a Monroe/Drummond front court has more long term potential than Smith/Drummond. I also think that Monroe’s trade value isn’t likely to drop on his next contract, so it’s not like handling it this way leaves me stuck with Monroe if the Drummond/Monroe combo in fact doesn’t work out.

          • Jan 26, 20149:37 am
            by Parsons

            Monroe sucks at PF because he has no athleticism it only has a little to do with his jumper. Anyone who has the slightest ability to drive to the basket will do well against Monroe. Most PFs can do this. Without speed he can’t follow them out to 18 feet and defend the jumper because he knows its not hard to go around him. He’s pretty stationary it’s not hard to just walk around him. That’s why he’s a Center. Centers, aside from a few, don’t have jumpers and don’t have athleticism. At Center his offensive game is amazing, at PF it’s average. Without that jumper and not a lot of post move he’s just average at PF. PFs can guard unathletic Centers. Their used to a guy like David Lee. Not at Center though. Not a lot of Centers can score much less have the potential to put up 18 a night. Gumpy Centers with a hook shot and a fadeaway do well. He’ll thrive after he’s traded make no mistake. It’ll drive everyone who wanted to keep him crazy but he’ll never be an allstar PF but he will playing Center.

          • Jan 26, 20149:58 am
            by Parsons

            None of my problems with Monroe have to do with fit. I’m more concerned about his ability to play PF to the same standard he can play Center at. I don’t think he can so I’d trade him. He can go on to play a full career filled with many allstar games. It won’t bother me because his success will come from the Center spot not PF and he will not have that opportunity here.

          • Jan 26, 20144:37 pm
            by oats

            @ Parsons. First of all, why follow them out to 18 feet? The long 2 is the least efficient shot in basketball. If the guy can hit the 3 then he’d need to follow him out there, but the list of guys whose mid range shot is actually scary is really limited. We’re talking Bosh, Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, West, Anthony Davis, Ibaka, Horford, and Millsap. That’s pretty much it. 3 point shooting adds Ryan Anderson, Kevin Love, and Markief Morris. None of those 3 point shooters are going to put the ball on the floor and blow by him, and Duncan isn’t likely to any more. Secondly, Andre Drummond is perfectly capable of matching up on any of those guys. I mean, that’s an ok argument for Monroe being a center, although he’s pretty limited defensively there. Yet using that logic means that Drummond can be the PF next to Monroe.
             
            Monroe’s bad at guarding Hibbert, so the Pacers would be problematic. The Heat often don’t have a real PF on the court and thus are tough to defend. When the Thunder go small then they are also problematic. The Pelicans and Hawks could also toss out 2 guys with a jumper and would also be tricky. Yet the Pelicans tend to partner Ryan Anderson with Al Farouq Aminu to cover for Anderson being an awful rebounder, and Aminu is such an aggressively bad scorer that Monroe could guard him and pretty much any SF can guard Anderson. So we’re really talking about having a bit of problems with the Pacers, Heat, Thunder, and Hawks. The Hawks aren’t a good enough team to be all that scary even with that problem. Everyone in the league has problems with the Pacers, Heat, and Thunder because they are 3 of the best teams in the league. I guess I also forgot to mention Melo going small, but no one is good at defending Melo either. I think this is a pretty overrated concern to be honest.

          • Jan 26, 20145:13 pm
            by Parsons

            Drummond can’t play PF because that takes him away from the basket. Our best interior defender needs to be in the interior not chasing PF and SFs around the court. Your right though we do see a lot of SFs at the PF spot. Next, yes you follow guys out to 18 feet because that 2 points we can’t afford to give up. Look at our remaining schedule almost every team we have left has a PF with a jumper. Yes you defend it regardless of efficiency. 18 feet is efficient enough to gaurd. Also if Monroe could guard PFs why is his defensive efficiency down? EVERY PF has lit him up this year. He makes scrubs look good as long as they have a jumper he has to respect. Your list of PFs who can shoot are also missing some people like Tobias Harris who we’ll see soon. David Lee too. Monroe’s a stationary object all you have to do is walk around him. I mean yeah he’s a bad defender at C too but he does better against opponents that back him down rather than make him actually have to move.

          • Jan 26, 20146:02 pm
            by oats

            I disagree that Drummond has to stay in the interior. He should guard whoever the more dangerous player is. I have no problems with having him defend PFs because PFs are often the better scorer, and that puts him in a position to more directly impact a team’s scoring output.
             
            I will agree that I missed Harris, but Lee shoots 34% in that range. There might be a couple more that I missed, but not enough to change my point. I really do disagree with you on the 18′ shot. The league average on that shot is right around 36%, which isn’t enough to be a real concern. Most guys shoot over 50% in the paint and have a higher chance of drawing a foul while near the basket. The league average on 3s is the same as on that 18′ shot, but it nets an extra point per shot. There just aren’t many teams that can beat you by taking the worst shot in basketball. The fact of the matter is it doesn’t actually translate to 2 points enough for me to really care. Even those good shooters are in the low 40s, which still is only about .8 points per shot attempt. That’s right around what Jennings gets on all of his shots if you remove his free throws, and he’s an inefficient scorer.
             
            If you want my answer for Monroe’s struggles at PF, it’s two fold. First of all, he’s often playing with Smith at SF. That lineup is just awful defensively. Smith is a really bad defender at that position, and Jennings is similarly terrible. Here’s a fun fact for you, the Pistons get better defensively when Drummond hits the bench. The reason is simple, it means that Smith isn’t playing SF anymore. The end result is that the stats say that Drummond is hurting the defense too, when in actuality it’s a bad lineup bringing everyone down. It’s only played limited minutes, but when the Pistons went with KCP at SG, Singler at SF, and Monroe paired with Drummond or Harrelson then the Pistons play solid defense. Lineups with Smith at PF and Monroe at C have also been good defensively. So yes, the rotations have been problematic. I know Monroe’s limitations are part of the problem, but Detroit doesn’t have many good defenders and Cheeks has no idea how to use lineups that make sense. This is a team and coaching issue, not just a Monroe issue.
             
            The other reason Monroe has struggled is the defensive schemes. They make no sense. They have the bigs aggressively switching onto perimeter players, and Detroit’s perimeter players stink at rotating. That’s actually why lineups with KCP and Singler are the best defensive lineups, because they are the best at doing rotations. This scheme makes no sense for Detroit or Monroe specifically. What’s more, Cheeks has never once made a move to hide Monroe on a weak scorer. You can get reasonable defense with Monroe at PF, and Detroit has even done it in limited minutes despite using a really bad scheme for him.

    • Jan 25, 20148:15 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      I’m not saying the Pistons should tank, just that it sometimes kinda looks like they are doing so. That said, there are a lot of guys I’d be happy with in this draft. I’d say there are probably at least 7 studs. So if the Pistons keep their pick, they’d have a real good shot at drafting one.

    • Jan 25, 20148:24 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      idk man, with basketball IQ like we saw last night at the end of the 4th I say anything is possible with this team.

  • Jan 25, 201411:31 am
    by mshansky

    Reply

    does joe d actually watch these games? gores? i guess we have to wait til february 20 for joe to tell us he is standing pat, because he could not see a way to improve the team through trades. even the coach seems confused and sort of remote….is this how tanking looks? if so, i am all for it….

  • Jan 25, 201411:41 am
    by Jakob Eich

    Reply

    25 min for Moose is a joke. He is one of our most important players, and still developing, yet he often does not crack 30 min because of Josh Smith. Monroe’s trade value is just becoming lower by this strategy. Dumars has to do something with this roster, I believe it is basically uncoachable. I am not the biggest Cheeks fan, but apart from using Josh Smith as his sixth man, what can he do? Anyone who has tried playing with this roster on 2K14 has noticed that it is just very badly put together …

  • Jan 25, 20141:06 pm
    by Cheeks for Coach of Year!

    Reply

    So what are your suggestions to help Cheeks and Dumars quietly tank into oblivion?  A few more loses and we will have a great chance of picking in top 6.  Cheeks for coach of the year!  Wiggins slips to 6 to the Detroit Pistons!  After Jennings was traded with Monroe for Rondo, our 2015 starting line up: Rondo, Pope, Wiggins, Smith, and Drummond!  Wow…I thought that would make me smile, but I am still depressed.  No line up looks good with Smith in it.

    • Jan 25, 20141:23 pm
      by George

      Reply

      “Cheeks for Coach of the Year” - 

      You’re a fool for wanting Smith over Monroe. Dont get me wrong, I’d do the Jennings/Monroe for Rondo trade.. but thats solely to get rid of Jennings. He’s a giant negative. The problem is noone wants Jennings. Not because of his contract, because he a cancer on the court and has no idea how to play half court basketball

      • Jan 25, 20148:30 pm
        by jamesjones_det

        Reply

        You don’t trade for players with bad knees till you are sure they are fine.  I wouldn’t touch Rondo unless he can make it through the rest of this season with at least 35 mins a game.  Right now he’s doing about 20 and sitting out on occasion, if that doesn’t give you pause let me just mention a name… Derrick Rose…

        • Jan 25, 201411:36 pm
          by Smitty

          Reply

          It seems that he will sign and extension, but you never know. We need a really good SF. Some more 3 point shooting off the bench also.

        • Jan 26, 20149:35 am
          by oats

          Reply

          That risk is the key to making them even consider moving Rondo for a package that slight. A healthy Rondo is worth much more than that. As it is I don’t know if I’d do it without getting them to throw in Bradley or Sullinger, but I definitely would be willing to take the gamble on Rondo as long as I have some kind of fall back plan for if it fails. Some cap space when his deal expires after next year and a young player is enough of a fall back plan for me to move Monroe and Jennings.

  • Jan 25, 20141:20 pm
    by George

    Reply

    Couldn’t disagree more with the Jennings ranking. 
    Jennings is the reason for the Pistons 4th quarter woes, by far and away the main culprit. 

    Jennings was awful in the 4th yet again, didn’t run the team, took bad shots and lost the game for his team. 

    When are people going to realize Jennings needs to be gone? He is the worst half court PG in the NBA on both ends. Not an exaggeration. Almost all his production comes when the game is ragtag and full court. Something like 14 of his 16 assists were full court dimes that one record breaking half.. its like that every game. 
    Guess what happens in the 4th quarter of an NBA game? It becomes half court, and the with Jennings loses.

    • Jan 25, 20148:26 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      It’s the whole team man.  Every player on the Pistons roster goes into 1on1 mode in the 4th.  I don’t care who you have out there, with that mentality you are going to lose most nights.  I hate to say it but most undisciplined teams start with the coaching staff.

  • Jan 25, 20141:53 pm
    by Cheeks for Coach of Year!

    Reply

    So your suggestion to help the Pistons tank is to keep Jennings in the fourth quarter running the offense.  I like it I like it and more importantly I think Cheeks agrees.  Do you think we could move Smith and tank at the same time?

    • Jan 25, 20141:59 pm
      by Tom Y.

      Reply

      Moving Smith would definitely get in the way of tanking, but it will be worth it. Plus, we can trade Stuckey too, that’ll help.

    • Jan 25, 20142:04 pm
      by CZM

      Reply

      They need keep smith to keep tanking.  I think moving Stuckey is the best way to tank.  Move him to a contender for a first round pick.

  • Jan 25, 20142:31 pm
    by Maurice Cheeks

    Reply

    I an all aboard fellas.  This isn’t easy on me either, but I told Joe we could do it and keep our draft pick this year.  I agree with trading Stuckey; he has done well lately.  Who could we get a draft pick from?  Stuckey for Gerald Wallace and 1st Round pick?  

  • Jan 25, 20143:01 pm
    by OOtis

    Reply

    Step one:  Fire Dumars now.  Whoever is GMing the team next year needs to start before the trading deadline – very important.
    Step two: Trade Monroe and whatever contracts the new GM wants to shed (Jennings, Bynum, Jerebko) for a first rounder and expiring contracts.
    Step three:  SUCK for the rest of the season.  It’s been pointed out already, but once the logjam is cleared with our bigs, we might actually get better.  Keep Cheeks.  Play Siva and Mitchell a ton, Datome too, and see what they have to offer.  Have Smith sit out with tendinitis.
    Then you have two first round picks and capspace heading into next summer…….

    • Jan 25, 20144:03 pm
      by PistonFanSinceDay1

      Reply

      Terrible plan Mr Otis. Your idea will have us outside the playoffs for the next 5 years. 

      • Jan 26, 201412:37 am
        by OOtis

        Reply

        Have you been watching the past five years?

  • Jan 25, 20143:22 pm
    by Maurice Cheeks

    Reply

    If the bigs start playing too good I will invite Jeanna McCurdy to sit courtside.

  • Jan 25, 20144:06 pm
    by PistonFanSinceDay1

    Reply

    The Pistons need to start giving Smith/Monroe more chances to play together. Smith/Drummond gives us zero offense. 

  • Jan 25, 20145:07 pm
    by Maurice Cheeks

    Reply

    If necessary I will get ahold of Amanda Bynes and see if she would like the rest of the team to murder that merkin.  

  • Jan 25, 20145:54 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    We were up 16 with about 4-5 left in the 3rd qrt…Drummond pick uo only his 2nd foul
     
     
    At this time the defense looked really go and all on one page…Smith, Greg and Dre..
    Looked comfortable passing and cutting moving without ball… Cheeks pulls Drummond…for Singler…the Pelicans go on a 9-0 run…. to start the 4th…no josh,Greg or jennings
    .
    Even tho they were playing great together…. Pelicans make another run, then Cheeks brings back Josh and Jennings still no Greg…
     
    That’s poor coaching…

  • Jan 25, 20145:58 pm
    by Willy

    Reply

    I can see where this is heading. Monroe gets traded for a bag of peanuts to another eastern conference team and ends up in a system where he thrives leaving smith thinking he needs to jack up more shots and we look destined to land a top 5 pick only for cheeks to win some meaningless end of season games and bump us out of a draft pick 

  • Jan 25, 20146:26 pm
    by Dacata

    Reply

    How about Barnes + Lee for Stuck + Moose/Smith? Does that work for us?  Gives GS a better C rather than oft injured Bogut and scorer of the bench in Stuckey.

  • Jan 25, 20146:50 pm
    by mmmmm

    Reply

    Thank god for stats.nba.com’s video feature so I can cross-check false comments with actual video.
    Blaming KCP for Morrow’s 4th quarter is misguided.  Once Morrow cut by an unsuspecting KCP and that is 100% on KCP.  Then, after an offensive board and a switch, Morrow made a 3 with KCp guarding someone on the opposite end.  Then Morrow hit a 3 after Withey set a perfect pick on KCP.  Durmmond switched off and gave a good defense, but Morrow made the challenged shot anyways.  We should probably just give Morrow credit for hitting a tough shot there.  The last Morrow bucket in the 4th was a 3 where KCP correctly collapsed down on Roberts after he brutally beat Jennings.  This left Morrow open for a 3.
    So, 1 out of 4 buckets for Morrow were actually the result of deficient play from KCP.  Definitely worth ignoring the rest of his solid game, so you can give him a D-.

  • Jan 25, 20147:16 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    ESPN is reporting that Monroe is being shopped in a three way trade with Washington and Boston.  Boston gets Nene and Silva, Washington gets Bradley and Monroe with Wallace and a box of peanuts going to Detroit.

    • Jan 25, 201411:37 pm
      by Smitty

      Reply

      Honey roasted hopefully.

    • Jan 26, 201412:12 am
      by PistonFanSinceDay1

      Reply

      We better get a top notch prospect in return if we trade Monroe. Honey roasted peanuts won’t cut it

    • Jan 26, 201412:30 am
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Link?

      • Jan 26, 201412:41 am
        by Smitty

        Reply

        I think he may be kidding.

    • Jan 26, 20141:23 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Otis your alive. I was started to worried about you seeming you haven’t posted around here for a while. I know it wasnt nostrodamus like but it looks like all your predictions are coming true. Hopefully the one about extending Monroe doesn’t happen though.

      • Jan 26, 20141:48 am
        by PistonFanSinceDay1

        Reply

        Haha! Otis has predictions?

    • Jan 26, 20141:10 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      I’ll take two boxes of Honey roasted for the rest of the roster minus Drummond.  If you need be to sweeten the deal i’ll throw in a Piston’s dancer or two.

  • Jan 25, 20147:18 pm
    by Chuck Taylor

    Reply

    That trade would never work.  Just ran it through RealGM.

  • Jan 25, 20147:21 pm
    by anacaniwelk

    Reply

    Nickname for Andre Drummond…”Mr. 4th Quarter Invisible.” If Drummond makes his free throws the Pistons win.  He didn’t, they didn’t.  ANOTHER game where Drummond’s free throw shooting and inability to do anything in a half court set, or the 4th quarter, got the Pistons another loss.

    • Jan 25, 201410:38 pm
      by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

      Reply

      Invisible! I agree! 7 points…6rebs block in 4th invisible! 1-2 for FT

      • Jan 25, 201411:42 pm
        by Smitty

        Reply

        Give Drummond another 1.5 years and some good coaching. Unstoppable.

  • Jan 25, 20148:14 pm
    by Fan since '87

    Reply

    I had a thought . . . Assuming he’s healthy. Do you trade Drummond and Stuckey for Westbrook and a pick? just trying something to see what people think. Personally I think I do it, assuming I can move Jennings for even a decent small forward, since we really don’t have much there (and I like Singler, just not as a starter) a starting line of Westbrook, KCP, ?, Smith, and Monroe. What’re your thought?
    also do the Thunder do it? Do the Pistons? I don’t know.

    • Jan 25, 20148:31 pm
      by kevin s.

      Reply

      I wouldn’t. Westbrook has substantially worse since the injury. He’s almost as bad as Josh Smith at shooting threes, and just as in love with taking them. His saving grace is that he rebounds very well for his position, but Drummond is one of the best rebounders in the NBA. Lastly, Drummond is 20 with 2.5 seasons left on a rookie contract, where is Westbrook is 25 and earning the max.
       
       

  • Jan 25, 20148:16 pm
    by Amber

    Reply

    Are you suggesting that we trade Andre Drummond?  

  • Jan 25, 20148:37 pm
    by Dacata

    Reply

    I’d trade Westbrook and Serge for Drummond and Stuckey. Fair deal for everyone involved.  There’s a chance Drummond doesn’t develop an offensive game and becomes something like Andre Jordan rather than Dwight of Hakeem.

    • Jan 25, 201411:40 pm
      by Smitty

      Reply

      I keep Drummond, no matter what. Then I pay him the max when his rookie deal is up. Build around Drummond, there are other players that we can move.

      • Jan 26, 201412:44 pm
        by AYC

        Reply

        Are you kidding?  The guy maxes out his projection as Dwight Howard.  A player of lesser quality than Westbrook.  Andre Drummond’s value speaks more to the lack of quality centers and the overall decline at the position.  Dwight Howard would be the equivalent of Zo Mourning.  Drummond is not as good as Hakeem or Duncan or Shaq.  Those are centers worth building around. 
        Drummond is a great piece but some fans are seriously delusional about how well he projects and even what his max projection means.  You shouldn’t hesitate to get one of the best PGs in the league and one of the best defensive PFs in the game who also has the ability to hit the 3 for Dre. 

        • Jan 26, 20142:59 pm
          by kevin s.

          Reply

          What is the basis for your assertion his maxed out projection is Dwight Howard? His wins produced numbers are better than were Howard’s. Also, is his maxed out project the current Dwight Howard, or Howard before his career went in reverse a bit? The Orlando version of Howard is certainly worth building around, and was far better than Westbrook is now. Actually, this version of Howard is better than Westbrook is now. Westbrook is having a pretty ordinary season, obscured by the fact he shoots a ton.

          • Jan 26, 20144:47 pm
            by oats

            He’s a worse basketball player at 20 than Howard was, so to expect him to surpass Howard of a few years ago seems kind of hard to project. I don’t have a problem calling that Drummond’s ceiling, as long as we’re talking Orlando Howard.
             
            The notion that Howard, or even Zo are not guys you can build around is laughable though. That includes this post injury Howard.

          • Jan 26, 20147:33 pm
            by AYC

            The reason I say you can’t build around them is that they are not guys who can regularly carry your team in the 4th quarter against playoff-caliber competition.  They simply lack the offensive skills or in Zo’s case at some point he was bound to go up against someone better.  Now that doesn’t mean they can’t be a vital piece of the puzzle, it just means you do have to find a player that is more of your key guy.  When the game slows down, Drummond will probably be unable to create much of his own offense, instead relying on putbacks. What are we going to do in the 4th quarter?  Rely on a Drummond that has matured himself into the second coming of Hakeem to create 4th quarter offense in today’s NBA against elite teams and defenses?  We need to find someone who can create their own 4th quarter offense against playoff-caliber competition.  If it means trading Drummond to get that person and keeping Monroe as our post threat, then fine. 
            I think a Westbrook-KCP-Smith-Ibaka-Monroe team would outperform a Jennings-KCP-Harrison Barnes/Batum-Smith-Dre one. 

  • Jan 25, 20149:25 pm
    by Amber

    Reply

    Could we Amnesty Smith?

    • Jan 25, 201411:38 pm
      by Smitty

      Reply

      Unfortunately no. HAHA.

  • Jan 25, 201410:44 pm
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    No! That’s the problem…there’s a better chance at drafting ir signing a Productive wing player or guard….than there is landing another player like Drummond…
    He is 20…and already better than Jordan…an you can argue he is already slight ahead of Dwight physically at this age…. its easier to build around a potential all-star big than it is to build around guards

    • Jan 26, 20144:34 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Calling him better than DeAndre Jordan is pretty debatable. They are the 2 best rebounders in the league this year, so let’s call that a wash. Drummond is a better scorer because he has better hands and runs the court a little better than Jordan, but it’s not like he’s posting guys up or something. Jordan is a much smarter defender right now, although Drummond is better at getting steals. Drummond’s 5 years younger and a way better prospect, but for this year and this year only I think Jordan has a really small edge.
       
      He is bigger and might be a bit stronger, but he’s also clearly a worse player than a 20 year old Howard. Howard was better in the post and a much headier defender at 20 than Drummond is, although it should be noted that Drummond is a better rebounder than Howard was.

      • Jan 26, 20147:09 am
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Drummond is indeed a better rebounder at the same age and Howard never had 2 guys in Monroe and Smith taking rebounds away from him in his 2nd year.

        • Jan 26, 20149:50 am
          by oats

          Reply

          I see Monroe and Smith taking rebounds from each other, and Drummond taking rebounds from either of them, but they aren’t taking any from him that I can see. His rebounding rates are up from last year when he was often paired with Prince or Singler and CV, so I don’t see evidence of Monroe and Smith hurting his rebounding numbers. That’s not some kind of knock on Drummond. Being the guy whose rebounding isn’t taking a hit when that many good rebounders hit the court is impressive. I’m mostly just saying that if the team tossed out worse rebounders in place of Monroe and Smith that I don’t think that Drummond would do much better, I think instead the team would just lose those rebounds.

      • Jan 26, 201411:11 am
        by I HATE LOSING (Predicting a Strong Finish)

        Reply

        @ Oats… im not even trying to hype Drummond up….He is Right NOW BETTER than Jordan…Jordan is better coached…..
        Number …Jordan has played 3 more games than Drummond, but Drummond has 30 more offensive rebounds…and that could be because the Pistons are a terrible shooting team….
        Its also scare y… to Think How far ahead Drummond is Compared to guys like Joakim Noah, Hibbert, Brook Lopez , Jordan and Dwight…especially with rebounding…
        offensively Drummonds 13ppg numbers, are impressive when you consider the Pistons dont even Runs plays for him…I dont care if he lacks Post movss, he is bigger and stronger and more athletic than most players every night….
        Drummond does have weakness like reaching and leaving his feet for pump fakes, and also he still has to mature on offense… but overall right now!
        If you needed a Big for a 7 game series, not even talking potential….Between Drummond and Jordan???

        • Jan 26, 20144:57 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I take Jordan for his defense in that 7 game series. I get why someone would disagree, but I think that’s worth the 3 points per game on 3 extra shots a game, which is the difference between them on offense. It’s just not hard to make up a point a shot, but it is tough to make up for a center who doesn’t really understand his defensive fundamentals. That’s the way I see it right now.

    • Jan 26, 201412:49 pm
      by AYC

      Reply

      Your premise is flawed.  Your basing it on the assumption that Drummond has the requisite talent to be one of those centers to build upon.  Yes, you can build around a center.  They are named Shaq or Duncan or Hakeem.  Others tried with Robinson and Ewing.  Drummond will never be Shaq, Duncan, or Hakeem, and its debatable he’d even get to Robinson or Ewing level. 
      I think we’re reaching the point where Dre has gone from underrated to verging on overrated.

      • Jan 26, 20145:21 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        It’s absurd to think that you can’t build around someone like Robinson or Ewing. Just because they didn’t win it all, with the obvious exception of Robinson with Duncan, doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have won it all. I’m not buying that argument for a second.The Knicks did a bad job building around Ewing. They never gave him a good PG, and Starks was a really blah player to be the second best on a supposed contender. Robinson had some bad luck, largely dealing with injuries. That happens.

        • Jan 26, 20147:42 pm
          by AYC

          Reply

          I’m not saying that you shouldn’t, I’m saying that in order for a C to carry the team, you have to perform at an extremely high level.  The past 3 centers that have carried teams to titles have been extreme outliers at their positions in terms of talent.  Of course that’s normal for every position in the NBA, but the point is, is Dre that level of player?  If Dre came out in 1991, where would he rank as an NBA center from 1991-2000?  Even with growth he would be behind Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, and Duncan.  At best he’d beat out Zo.  Even then maybe not.  Is better than Arvydas Sabonis, Rik Smits, Dikembe Mutumbo, and Vlade Divac really worth getting THAT hyped about?   Why not explore pulling the trigger and trying to get a truly game-changing talent?

  • Jan 25, 201410:55 pm
    by Amber

    Reply

    What was the point of trading Gordon for a draft pick if we have not played any better nor utilized Magette?

  • Jan 26, 201412:10 am
    by pablum

    Reply

    Felt like Jennings best passing game this year. He actually looked like a captain, dishin to his teammates, just controlling the spacing on O (until the 4th). Still it’s more than apparent that with a merely good 2, Jennings has the talent to be our 1 for the future.

    Josh Smith must be be the 3rd or 4th option if we’re to contend. Whatever his raw talents, his personality is toxic.

    All (nearly) the beat writers reported on the fan who called Cheeks a ” fucking Idiot ” at the end of the game. Incredible moment where a fan becomes part of the game. I tried explaining this rare phenomenon to my bored wife. I told her that it was a historical feature of sports, but that whether the act is moral depends upon the merit of the situation. And that the fans in totem will determine whether the derogatory comments are just, and the fan who evoked them , an admirable soul, or an as hole who’s gotta’ go.

    “So, which is it ?” she asked. And I said, everybody knew that fan was right.

    • Jan 26, 201412:17 am
      by PistonFanSinceDay1

      Reply

      Haha, good post. I any of us can say Smith’s personality is toxic because I don’t think anyone here actually knows him, but everything else you posted was spot on.

      • Jan 26, 201412:18 am
        by PistonFanSinceDay1

        Reply

        *I don’t think

    • Jan 26, 20144:43 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Jennings is putting up 8.2 assists a game, which is the 6th most assists in the league. His problems have nothing to do with KCP. He’s a terrible defender and a bad shooter that shoots a ton. I don’t mind wanting an upgrade on the wing, but let’s not pretend like that would in any way change what is wrong with Jennings.

      • Jan 26, 20141:02 pm
        by pablum

        Reply

        Jennings “problems have nothing to do with KCP.” I thought you wuz considered “Da DOPE” here! KCP’s problems are this whole team’s problems. He was drafted, allegedly, first and foremost for his 3pt shot — and it has sucked for us — ad killed us. Never would lost to the triage Pelicans had he simply hit one of his wide open 3′s in crunch time. My point is, you have a merely good 2 with a merely good mid-range J and Jennings will be a much better PG. He’s all-over-the-place because he thinks he’s got to do it all himself and there’s not a counterpart 2 to balance out his game — and it shows…He looks like he’s on choppy seas at times!
        And since when are you lookin’ for your 1 to be some all-world defender above al else?? It’s about speed, handles, and passing above all else, then your own scoring (which we all know he can go Fiddy on your ass)…hell Zeke was the best, the best, pure PG I’ve ever seen but just go watch clips of him trying to cover Paul Pressy — yes, Paul Pressy a forward who really played pg — he would flat out humiliate Zeke like nobody I ever saw… 

  • Jan 26, 201412:39 am
    by I HATE LOSING (Predicting A Strong Finish)

    Reply

    Smith has not been toxic???…haven’t heard anything negative about smith from coaches, faculty, players or media….

    • Jan 26, 201412:55 am
      by Smitty

      Reply

      Cheeks may not be an idiot but I can’t sit here and say he knows what he is doing either.
       

    • Jan 26, 201412:48 pm
      by pablum

      Reply

      You look up the word PRIMADONNA in the cosmic NBA dictionary and Josh Smith’s picture will be right next to it. Why else would the Hawks let this amazing athletic talent walk — a hoops prodigy born, bred, and anointed in Atlanta? Now in Detroit, benched 2x (and bitched about it), not stared for the first X in several years, and then who can forget that public trash talking to Mo at 6:28 of the 2nd quarter some 5-6 games ago (can’t remember exact game, but it was on camera/close-up!, 6:28 of the 2nd quarter). Mo called Josh over to sideline to give instruction on a play and Josh gave some bullshit response that caused Mo to roll his eyes and walk away in disgust. This is all on camera and it said it all…

  • Jan 26, 20141:24 am
    by Adam

    Reply

    I disagree with the statement of Smith being toxic yes he is under performing but to say he is toxic is just hate mongering

  • Jan 26, 20142:15 am
    by Pimp Zombie

    Reply

     Monroe with Stuckey (exp contract), Caldwell-Pope, and Charlie V’s (exp contract) for sayyyyyyyy: Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson?

    • Jan 26, 201412:12 pm
      by Greg

      Reply

      No way the include Caldwell Pope!

    • Jan 26, 20141:17 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      Throw in a 1st round unprotected and we have a deal.  I like KCP but we need outside shooting more than we need KCP at the moment.

      • Jan 26, 20141:50 pm
        by Smitty

        Reply

        They traded their first rounder to Philly. Bad trade anyways.

      • Jan 26, 20147:00 pm
        by Pimp Zombie

        Reply

        You may be under estimating how quality a player Ryan Anderson is

  • Jan 26, 20143:41 am
    by NBALive14

    Reply

    Just for one game, ONE FREAKIN GAME can we plz bring either Monroe or Drummond off the bench …and put josh smith at PF .. what you got to lose.. clearly they are both centers and you cannot play two centers. That would be better then desperately trading Monroe for a bag of garbage unless its gonna help us …they just signed josh smith ..why would they try to trade him already …sometimes I wonder what you people be on ….coaching is a major issue joe d doesn’t want to be known as the coach killer but you can’t sit there and think neither side has a plan…they have eyes and ears and they see what’s going on 

    • Jan 26, 20149:58 am
      by Jon

      Reply

      the issue probably isn’t two centers as much as it is two players playing out of position. LA showed you can start two centers and win championships a couple years back

      • Jan 26, 201412:11 pm
        by Pimp Zombie

        Reply

        yeah, but Gasol can SHOOT…

      • Jan 26, 20145:56 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Yeah and those LA teams had Kobe drawing double teams every second play. This is where your argument falls down.

    • Jan 26, 20143:05 pm
      by kevin s.

      Reply

      Frankly, I want them to do this so people will pipe down about it. Smith is going to do the same crap as a PF as he did as an SF, so let’s bench one of our two best players and go on a nice little losing streak. It should make it easier to fire Dumars and we might get to keep our pick.

  • My friend advised I might like this site. They seemed to be completely correct. The following post actually made the morning. You are unable to imagine exactly how much period I had put together used due to this information! Many thanks!

  • Jan 26, 201411:21 am
    by James

    Reply

    If you pair a short 2 guard(Gordon) with a total sieve on defense at point guard(Jennings) what kind of defense do you plan on playing to help cover all of the drive and dishing the opposing teams are going to do every night? Gordon isn’t the answer in my opinion, he’s too small. 

  • Jan 26, 201411:41 am
    by Domnick

    Reply

    I really think… Overall the reason why we are here.. is because of poor coaching,… Our talented lineup wouldve worked if we had a right coach in place…. I dont know why we hired mo cheeks who doesnt run efficient offense in his previous teams…. He might be good as defense coach but not a good offensive coach,,, we dont even have a shooter…. Not efficient last qtr is the result of poor coaching!

  • Jan 26, 201412:44 pm
    by Smitty

    Reply

    Pistons might start Jennings Stuckey KCP Smith and either Drummond or Moose?

  • Jan 26, 20141:25 pm
    by Mike

    Reply

    When I was 30 all of the stars aligned for a moment and I found myself with money, expensive lifestyle with all the fancy things a guy would want.  I met a absolute 10 of a college playmate all of 18 years old.  We dated into my late thirties and surprise surprise we broke up when she was about 25.  I figured I was only 37 and I can do this again!  I can find another 10 who will fall for an average looking 37 year old.  Heck I did it before right?  This is the same premise we have with Joe D as we hang on to that 2004 Championship.  He did it before!  We can get there again!  Wrong!  The stars were aligned and he got lucky!  He had no formula no more than I did when I met her boo hoo hoo hoo.  Fire Joe D!!!!!!!!  That hot ass 2004 Barbie with nice DSL ain’t walking through that door homie!

  • Jan 26, 20142:08 pm
    by Amber

    Reply

    DSL?  Disabled list?  I dont get.

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