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Pistons have no answer for Kevin Love, get routed by Timberwolves

Minnesota Timberwolves 121 Final

Recap | Box Score

94 Detroit Pistons
Greg Monroe, PF 20 MIN | 5-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 10 PTS | -14Monroe shot efficiently, but who cares? He didn’t bully his way inside nearly enough times and he did a horrendous job on Love. I expect Love to score on anyone, but getting beat on the glass 16-2 is unacceptable.
Josh Smith, SF 34 MIN | 7-14 FG | 2-4 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 17 PTS | -18Smith took 7 of his shots in the paint. And he hit 5 of them. The other 7 attempts were stupid, especially the 20-foot 2-pointers (even though he made one of them).

But Smith also bailed out two of three abysmal passes by Jennings–and another from Billups–that would have been turnovers if they’d been thrown to a player only slightly less alert, hustling or athletic.

Andre Drummond, C 29 MIN | 4-9 FG | 0-1 FT | 8 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 2 BLK | 1 TO | 8 PTS | -19Drummond didn’t play a terrible game, but he is easily the best player on the Pistons. They need more from you, Dre.
Brandon Jennings, PG 31 MIN | 8-16 FG | 2-5 FT | 4 REB | 7 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 6 TO | 20 PTS | -19See Josh Smith above for why Jennings had “only” six turnovers. Early in the season, Jennings was putting up an excellent assist-to-turnover ratio but couldn’t shoot. Now his shots are dropping but he can’t stop giving the ball away.

You’re in Motown, take a cue from the obnoxious Ford commercials, Jennings. Accurate passing AND shooting is better than accurate passing OR shooting.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG 33 MIN | 7-14 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 16 PTS | -22As is normally the case, Caldwell-Pope’s grade is only slightly based on his box score. Tonight, he was making tons of huge plays that required hustle and getting himself to the right place in time:
Monroe dribbled the ball off his foot and KCP saved it from going out of bounds, instead draining a corner 3. Smith bobbled the ball away on the fast break; the Wolves would have recovered it, but KCP was right behind and slammed it home. Billups tried to throw the ball away but Pope bailed him out and two passes later, Harrellson got an easy deuce.Biggest of all was his block on Love’s fast break dunk attempt. He wasn’t even in the screen when Love started going up, but Caldwell-Pope pinned the ball on the glass, recovered it, and sent it the other way for a Smith dunk and a quick four point swing.
Tony Mitchell, PF 10 MIN | 1-1 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 4 PTS | -4Mitchell played well in garbage time.
Josh Harrellson, PF 13 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 4 PTS | -6Harrellson didn’t do a great job on Minnesota’s big men but he ended up guarding wings a couple times and did a really good job of that. Martin got him in the air on a pump fake, but Josh landed right in front of him so K-Mart couldn’t pull a Pierce and get cheap free throws, but was instead trapped in the corner with a massive body impeding his movement. Then Harrellson drew a fast break charge from Cunningham that felt very important at the time, before the Wolves’ lead ballooned.
Jonas Jerebko, PF 21 MIN | 2-3 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 5 PTS | -9Jerebko was decent but unremarkable. It’s too bad his one spectacular play (a vicious putback dunk) was called off for offensive goaltending.
Charlie Villanueva, PF 8 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | -9Villanueva’s time on the floor was fairly irrelevant, but he did hit a 3-pointer on just two tries and he was making an effort on D, which was half-encouraging and half-depressing.
Luigi Datome, SF 6 MIN | 0-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -5Datome is gradually building up a big enough sample size to conclude that perhaps he’s not actually a good shooter. He is now 4-23 (17 percent) from beyond the arc and 13-43 (30 percent) overall.
Kyle Singler, SF 11 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | 0Singler might as well have not played in this one.
Peyton Siva, PG 7 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 0 PTS | -6Siva got the inverse of his regular numbers. Coming into this game, he had a 1:2 AST:TO ratio. Tonight, it was 2:1, which isn’t great, but is a lot better.
Chauncey Billups, SG 18 MIN | 2-7 FG | 2-2 FT | 0 REB | 5 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 7 PTS | -4Don’t be fooled by Billups’ zero turnovers, that is thanks to some incredibly athletic saves by Smith and KCP. But apart from a couple wild passes, Billups played about to expectations. His poor shooting is probably more due to decline and the fact that he’s always shot a low percentage than it is due to rust.
Maurice Cheeks
I don’t know what Cheeks could have done differently in this one. Detroit just got torched by Love. But he certainly didn’t make a positive impact.

Two Things We Saw

  1. Love put up an insane line of 26 points, 16 rebounds, and 7 assists–in just 30 minutes. The Wolves were pounding the Pistons sufficiently that he never got on the court in the 4th quarter.Only Kevin Garnett (26-15-5 in 29 mins) and Brad Daugherty (30-15-5 in 29 mins) have managed to put up a 25-15-5 in so few minutes.
  2. The Pistons were less aggressive than their opponent at going to the hole. Given their relative lack of shooting prowess, that can’t happen. Minnesota ended up with 33 free throws to Detroit’s 16. And then the Pistons exacerbated the problem by missing half of them.

78 Comments

  • Dec 10, 201311:26 pm
    by Jacob

    Reply

    This is getting bad, who cares if we make the playoffs. It seems like we will by default in the E-league. It looks like we are missing stuckey a lot right now and Monroe is a whining sissy.

  • Dec 10, 201311:31 pm
    by baines

    Reply

    Wow……………..we just witnessed some BAD Pistons basketball!!

  • Dec 10, 201311:34 pm
    by Brigs

    Reply

    If this doesn’t rile up joe d into finding a trade for Monroe then I just don’t know what to say. Yea we are gonna make the playoffs either way but y not take a chance at becoming an actual championship contender with a decent trade. not only could we get a better fit for the team and move smith back to the four but we also eliminate the very high chance of having to pay moose a max contract. His total lack of defense is just killing this teams chances

    • Dec 11, 20135:07 am
      by Jordan

      Reply

      There isn’t a trade that makes us a championship contender short of adding LeBron, Durant or CP3.

  • Dec 10, 201311:39 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    we really miss stuckey

    • Dec 10, 201311:43 pm
      by Jacob

      Reply

      The only good thing that happened, is that KCP looks like he could end up being a pretty good player.

  • Dec 10, 201311:42 pm
    by Dags

    Reply

    The team they play tomorrow (Pelicans) have SGs & SFs. Why not use the game to scout the talent to make a trade in the next couple weeks? Pelicans need a big man to help with A. Davis down long term & have a glut of SG/SF types the Pistons need!

    • Dec 10, 201311:49 pm
      by Jacob

      Reply

      Austin Rivers? haha

    • Dec 11, 201311:17 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      A glut? They have Reke and Gordon. Evans is a more expensive Stuckey who sin’t in a contract year. Gordon would be a great fit but is paid like a star, which he isn’t. Maybe if the Pelicans were willing to attach a draft pick, although the Pistons wouldn’t get it til 2016 at the earliest.

  • Dec 10, 201311:52 pm
    by Parsons

    Reply

    That went… well.

  • Dec 10, 201311:52 pm
    by Mr Woods

    Reply

    I think I just officially lost faith in this team after holding out hope that this was going to be the season that we make that leap to success.  Greg Monroe needs to be traded immediately & he dosent fit this roster or just go ahead and pull the plug on Joe. I wonder if Monroe has a lot of value. If so, work out a deal with Boston for Jeff Green. 

    • Dec 11, 201312:00 am
      by Jacob

      Reply

      Me too this sucks. The tigers got smart and realized no matter how much money you spend, it doesn’t guarantee anything. If you have a team that just doesn’t fit, it won’t work. I don’t care what anyone says, this team just doesn’t fit. I would trade anyone but Drummond. Hopefully Monroe or Smith or both. Monroe is a big sissy that whines too much and Josh Smith things he’s fucking Kyle Korver or something. If we could keep him down low on offense then he might be worth keeping, but he should have a shock collar on offense. 

      • Dec 11, 20131:08 am
        by lisa

        Reply

        Shock collar, that’s funny! Not a bad idea though, anything to get him from jacking up those shots. One for Jennings too! Joe knew what he was getting from those two when signed them up. What I can’t understand is that, Pistons stood for defense, Joe was a great defensive player, yet he keeps bringing guys who don’t  play defense. Can you teach defense? Or is it’s something that just comes natural? Charlie, Moose, Jennings haven’t learnt it. Jennings is so fast, but can’t stay in front of his guy.

      • Dec 11, 20131:15 am
        by jg22

        Reply

        Agree on Monroe. He’s a little bitch.
         
        On Smith, its amazing to me how he gets left open on the perimeter every time, with teams daring him to shoot, yet draws a double in the post every time by the same defense.
         
        Do they have to spell it out to Cheeks? 
         
        They are telling him loud and clear where Smith is causing them the most problems, and where he is of no concern to them. 
         
        So then why does he continue to put Smith in positions to shoot 3′s and barely ever put him in the post?
         
         

      • Dec 11, 20131:18 am
        by gmehl

        Reply

        “he should have a shock collar on offense”
         
        Ha ha this is brilliant and it just might work. Anything outside the 3pt line and he gets a 1000 volts.

        • Dec 11, 20131:42 am
          by Jacob

          Reply

          I just don’t get it. You would think he and cheeks are smarter than dogs, but nope just keep chasing cars down the road. Eventually you’re going to get hit.

      • Dec 11, 201310:38 am
        by frankie d

        Reply

        josh smith has played that way his entire career.  
        (that is except for the one year he actually listened to his coach and played the way he should play, which not so incidentally led to his and his team’s greatest success.)
        that is why atlanta did not try to resign him.
        that is why he, in his own words, had no other options, other than detroit.
        that is why atlanta fans routinely booed him, despite the fact that he is a hometown boy and a very good player at times.
        that is why it was really dumb for detroit to sink the kind of money into a guy like him.
        that is why it would be really, really dumb to rationalize trading monroe because of smith’s presence.
        that is why the smartest thing dumars could do would be to dump smith, for whatever he could get, as soon as possible.  he did not cost anything other than cap space – no small matter, but at least it was not a player or draft pick – so anything they could get in return would be gravy.  this team will be a much, much  better team once they rid themselves of a guy shooting so poorly from long range who continues to hoist up shots as though he was even a competent outside shooter.  the idea that the team would trade monroe because of smith is just so crazy that it it hard to believe that some people actually think it makes any sort of sense whatsoever.
        that would be like dumping my cute wife, who i dearly love, flaws and all, because i just met and slept with a hot meth-addicted stripper who knocks my socks off in bed.  how long would it take before i realized how crazy a decision like that would be?  and how long would i regret doing something like that?
        getting rid of monroe, in these circumstances, where his current troubles are directly related to smith’s presence would be just as insane.

  • Dec 11, 201312:50 am
    by jg22

    Reply

    To answer your question posed at the end about what Cheeks could’ve done differently on Love, how about putting the guy on him who they just spent $50 mil on this summer, who came with a reputation as an elite defender at the same position Love happens to play?
     
    It is beyond mind boggling how Monroe, the teams worst defender, is given 100% responsibility to guard the other teams best player, and the guy who is one of the better defenders in the league at that position, who they just gave a huge contract to, is not even switched on to him once through the whole game. How the **** does that happen???
     
    The moment Cheeks saw Monroe having trouble to start the game, he should’ve called a timeout, took Monroe out for Singler, and put Smith at PF on Love. 
     
    Maybe Smith doesn’t do any better, maybe it was just Love’s night, but how do you not even try, when the whole reason you sign Smith is for his defense for games like this when the other team has an elite PF that Monroe can’t guard?
     
    Honestly, why even sign Smith, because we were no better equipped to guard Love this year than last year with Monroe, if we weren’t going to use Smith at all.
     
    Its not the first time I’ve wondered this either, because I don’t think they have yet to once swiitch Smith onto Monroe’s man when he’s getting beat. Be it LMA in the Portland game or Taj Gibson in the first Bulls meeting. I just don’t get it at all. Someone please explain this logic to me.
     

  • Dec 11, 201312:51 am
    by Nick N

    Reply

    After tonite game I for one am on the trade Monroe bandwagon, if your defense is gonna suck you should atleast have every offensive weapon in the book. I don’t think we need to rush and trade Monroe. As bad as we have looked detroit is still a 6 seed rite now. More than half of us didn’t think they would be that high. There are gonna be a lot of teams close to trade deadline with injuries that will need some good big men to make a playoff push. Unless we get an offer we can’t refuse they should stay with this team.

    • Dec 11, 201312:48 pm
      by Desolation Row

      Reply

      What good is a 6 seed if we get leap frogged next year by every team smart enough to keep their draft picks and go after one of the several potential all-stars in this draft?
      6 seed this season isn’t a sign of the Pistons going in the right direction. It’s a sign of a team measuring its success by a vanity metric that only signifies incompetence and mediocrity when looked at more closely. 

  • Dec 11, 201312:59 am
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    TRADE MONROE!!!
    TRADE MONROE!!!
    TRADE MONROE!!!
    TRADE MONROE!!!
    Advantages, Just to name a few:
    1. Floor Spacing
    2. Josh Smith will play “MUCH” better at the PF position:
    -Less 3′s
    -Better defense: he doesn’t have to chase small forwards anymore
    3. Andre Drummond also will be better
    4. Better overall team defense
    Deng? Jeff Green?
     
     
     
     

    • Dec 11, 20131:42 am
      by Jacob

      Reply

      yup

    • Dec 11, 201311:07 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      I can see wanting to trade Monroe, but Green is overpaid and a lesser talent (Monroe is worth more) and Deng could just as easily be signed in the offseason (also, he probably doesn’t have many good years left).

      Monroe had a bad game and looks like the odd man out in Detroit, that doesn’t mean he should be traded for pennies on the dollar.

  • Dec 11, 20131:02 am
    by Adam

    Reply

    Jg22 I hear you bro but if smith was to play on love how on hell would Greg stay with brewer until cheeks decides to play one of them off the bench I don’t see it any of that happening even though its obvious as all hell. Pretty devo about today’s performance it’s one thing to lose but to be embarrassed on your home court is unacceptable
     

    • Dec 11, 20131:21 am
      by jg22

      Reply

      The way I see it is Monroe is given a chance to perform at his position, and if he doesn’t, then he gets benched. Plain and simple.
       
      You call a timeout and bring in Singler to guard Brewer and move Smith onto Love. 
       
      If the Pistons value Monroe’s feelings more than winning, then they have bigger problems than just trying to guard Love.

  • Dec 11, 20131:44 am
    by Jay

    Reply

    Can we please trade Monroe for Even Turner?? I think it’s a win-win for each team. 

    • Dec 11, 20132:02 am
      by Jacob

      Reply

      young and turner for monroe singler and chalie v
       

      • Dec 11, 20138:07 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        it would make too much sense…

        • Dec 11, 201311:24 am
          by Parsons

          Reply

          Unless your Philly. Losin 2 young players for Monroe when Spencer Hawes is averaging 15.1 pts, 9.7reb, 1.6 blocks, he’s 25 with a jump shot and 7’1. Monroe isn’t really needed unless they want Hawes at PF for 10 mill and Monroe at C for 14ish. Potentially that could be a 30 million dollar backcourt with pitiful defense, plus they gave up Holiday for Noel so I don’t think Monroe would appeal to them unless they don’t think he’ll bounce back from his injury. On the other hand Houston wants to give them Asik for Turner so I might be wrong. I just think if I was Philly I wouldn’t do anything. They have a lot of young players and a high draft pick and money in the offseason. They could be really good next year.

  • Dec 11, 20134:38 am
    by Adam

    Reply

    Jacob Yes YES YES luv that trade Idea and add lavoy allen as insurance for any injuries to our front line

  • Dec 11, 20134:43 am
    by Otis

    Reply

    That was f*cking pitiful. I’m thrilled to see this hatred for Monroe after this game, because he was a wet sack of shit out there and needs to be traded before he fully exposes himself as a complete fraud. I f*cking hate that guy right now. You guys all covered it with your comments. Wretched D and not even close to the offensive skills it takes to compensate for that, let alone deserve max money. He’s supposed to have the size advantage almost every night, and it just so happens that “almost every night” is the precise rate at which he loses the power forward battle.
     
    Some numbskulls, most of whom I’ve seen on DBB, talk like feeding the Moose is the answer to this team’s problems. Complain about his shots versus the rest of the team. If any of you turkeys are reading this, go back and look at that entire first quarter. The man touches the ball ALL THE FRICKIN TIME. He’s just hesitant and defers most of the time, and the rest of the time he relies on those bullshit clunky moves where he gets as close as he can and flings up a prayer from five feet. And I’m sick of it. He had like ten consecutive touches in that first quarter where he accomplished exactly nothing. I’m running out of words for how sick I am of his act.
     
    This situation is completely unacceptable. The fact that we’re in the thick of the playoff race with zero wins against good teams at full strength is sickening. Even if we had a draft pick coming to us this summer, it would still be clear that a trade is in order. There is no continuity or chemistry or progress with this team. This can’t possibly continue.

  • Dec 11, 20137:32 am
    by Corey

    Reply

    Question: bring Monroe off they bench backing up both big spots, or keep starting him? I say it depends on whether they are trying to trade him. If so, start him to keep up his value. Or bring him off the bench to help the team work better.

  • Dec 11, 20138:05 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Games like this makes me say TRADE GREG! or Bring him off the bench….
    It just makes the most sense…
    Off the bench he becomes what Harden was for the Thunder back in the day…
    He’d be playing with guys like Billups, Stuckey, Charlie, Datome, Harrellson …guys that can space the floor and allow him to go to work…
    or trade him…
    its not that we lost to the Twolves but he showed every flaw he has defensively last night, and no not every team has a stretch 4/5 like Love but enough of the teams will look at what happened tonight and exploit Greg big time…
     
     

  • Dec 11, 20139:33 am
    by Oracle

    Reply

    Was at the game.  KCP’s block was reminiscent of Prince on Miller.  KCP was at half court when Love was cherry picking at the free throw line.  All hustle, and definitely the highlight of the day for the pistons.

  • Dec 11, 201310:33 am
    by Parsons

    Reply

    Who do you think has more value Omir Asik or Monroe? The Rockets are asking for multiple draft picks from the embarrassing eastern conference teams or both Turner and Young from Philly. I hope Monroe is as valuable as we want him to be otherwise Dumars might just keep him although even he has to see how bad of a situation this is. I wonder just how valuable Stuckey and Singler are? Dion Waiters is available and I wouldn’t trade Monroe for him since he seems to have issues but maybe those 2 and then Monroe for Turner and/or Young. I’m still hoping for Afflalo, I hope he cool down enough for a Stuckey/Singler trade and then Monroe for Turner and/or Young. I know I’d suck at GM but something should be done, but even I know everyone is playing out of position, I don’t see a whole lot of contenders not named Miami doing this.

    • Dec 11, 201311:03 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Monroe is way more valuable than Asik, but I don’t think Houston actually expects to get that much for Asik.

      I wouldn’t trade Monroe for any of Waiters, Turner, or Hayward straight up though. I just don’t think Waiters is any good and Turner or Haywood lands the Pistons in the same awkward position of probably overpaying over the summer–except they’re not as good players.

      But Turner+Young for Monroe+Jerebko+Villanueva seems like it would have potential. I’m not sold because I’m still a bit leery that Turner’s numbers are all due to usage (his PER is barely above average). But it’s a solid starting point.

      • Dec 11, 20131:20 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        The difference between overpaying for those guys you mentioned is: a) They fit, and b) You’re not going to have to overpay to the tune of a max deal that’s going to cripple your offseason and your chances of ever building a winner.

        • Dec 11, 20132:58 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          Don’t count on that, Neither Hayward nor Turner is a sure thing to get a max deal. But it wouldn’t be surprising if either of them was offered one either. That’s what makes them bigger risks. Monroe is seen as a max contract player, so he still has value on a max deal. Those guys  could easily draw that kind of money from someone and then you have to match an albatross or lose the player for nothing.

  • Dec 11, 201310:41 am
    by Danny

    Reply

    think this was a coaching loss here, turner is an interesting pick.  The fact that he doesn’t shoot the ball well, does concern me.  With that being said he does have a very good skill set that would provide us with another ball handler and good rebounder. 

  • Dec 11, 201311:14 am
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    Pathetic….. plain and simple.  We have dudes that can play, need to start looking to swap it up.  I actually really liked the way Tony played in garbage time, I think he could stick, would much rather see him get minutes than jonas

  • Dec 11, 201311:26 am
    by jopl

    Reply

    The biggest thing that annoyed me in the game was the idiotic lineups. CV at the 3? Jerebko at the 2???? What?

    I do like how Billups was used as the backup pg and Harrelson has impressed me so far.

    Overall just a bad loss. Didn’t have any energy, needed Stuckey and couldn’t stop Love.

  • Dec 11, 201311:28 am
    by jamesjones_det

    Reply

    I have nothing to add really other than I agree 100% with everyone on this board that the Monroe and Smith situation needs to be dealt with.
     
    And I love the shock collar idea.
     
    Crap game, hopefully change is in the air.

  • Dec 11, 201311:42 am
    by @GPMasters

    Reply

    Monroe is currently ranked 13th in ESPN’s “25 under 25″ list. Surely we would have every right to expect another player on that list in return for him? Harrison Barnes?

  • Dec 11, 201311:51 am
    by anacaniwelk

    Reply

    You can’t label Monroe as someone playing for a contract the way he is going.

    • Dec 11, 201311:54 am
      by @GPMasters

      Reply

      Maybe playing him out of position and impacting his performance is Joe’s way of getting him on the cheap…

      • Dec 11, 20131:23 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        If so, it’s an awful plan that won’t work. Also, Dumars would never ever do anything besides try full throttle to win as many games as possible because he’s also in a contract year.

  • Dec 11, 201312:00 pm
    by Dave

    Reply

    I agree  let  go and free the Moose to another team he is not Piston DNA. He  cries on every foul . I have three daughters that play and they get  hit and they just go  running back on D. They need to get something for him before all  his value comes further  down as his weakness is shown more and more every day,

  • Dec 11, 201312:30 pm
    by Kamal

    Reply

    Okay, I’m not going to defend Monroe for last night as he couldn’t guard Kevin Love. But looking at his game logs for this season, nobody can. Monroe shouldn’t have allowed Love to get position on him for those boards. That’s inexcusable.
     
    But I still don’t get how people are so pissed off at Monroe for the shalacking Last night. He was a problem but he was one of many. Love and Pekovic punked the whole team on the boards. When Monroe went to the bench, absolutely nothing changes. In fact, the wolves built a larger lead. They still couldn’t stop anyone from Minnesota from doing exactly what they wanted to do. That was the sign of a well coached team. They exploited our weaknesses and turned our advantage of height into a weakness by spreading the floor and making the Pistons chase them all over the court.
     
    The problems with the Pistons are bigger than Monroe.  They are as follows:
     
    Let me preface this by saying I like Brandon Jennings but he is not a good point guard. He is a good NBA player but not a good point guard. He belongs in the same category as Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury. He will always put up good point guards numbers because he dominates the ball so much. But he is a poor game manager. He doesn’t recognize mismatches or direct his teammates to the right spots. He dribbles around for most of the shot clock and either shoots it or triea to get a highlight assist ala Allen Iverson. If the starters don’t make their first couple of shots, it becomes he Jennigs show the rest of the way. He needs to stick to the game plan and use our height as an advantage. All of that isn’t his fault though.
     
    which leads me to the second problem: bad coaching. I was not happy with cheeks hire but didn’t bitch too much because I hated Frank. After watching our team play last night, I realized that we are running a system that was best suited for early 2000. We run entirely too many isolation sets for today’s NBA. Coach’s have figured out how to combat it. Movement and spacing is how you win in today’s league. we either dump the ball into Monroe, ISO Stuckey, or let Josh and Jennings dribble around to find a good shot for themselves. We dont run an effective pick and roll. We set picks to get Jennings free. We are at our best  on offense when we’re driving and kicking, filling lanes, and passing the ball. Cheeks is running plays that would’ve worked for Dr. J and Mose Malone. It don’t work now. He needs to be more creative and use maximize that talent. It seems that the pistons are running that “it’s my turn” offense.
     
    The next problem is Monroe, my favorite player on the team. He’s just not asserting himself on the offensive end. He needs to be more aggressive. He is currently fourth on the team in attempts per game and shoots a much higher percentage than the 3 guys ahead of him. Monroe and Drummond should be options 1 and 1a for the first 6 minutes of very game. And as for Monroe’s defense, it has gotten much better. People don’t score on him at will like last year. He still is a step too slow on help D and I don’t know if he’ll ever improve on that. As he gains more experience, his defensive instincts will help with his but he ain’t getting any faster. And besides, except for Pope, every starter has been torched by somebody this season – even Andre Drummond. That ain’t Monroe’s fault.
     
    Smith is another problem. The guy has been in the league too long to be this dumb. He has a size advantage on most nights and rarely uses it. Those shots he takes are just dumb. Switching him to power forward wont change that Because he wouldn’t be able to post up traditional 4s so he’ll probably shoot more. He should play more like Corey Brewer – slash and shoot the kick out 3. Not too much more than that.
     
    Stuckey is a bum. Thats all I have to say about him.
     
    If we keep the status quo, we’re talented enough to hover around .500 and make the playoffs. But we ain’t going nowhere if these areas aren’t addressed.

  • Dec 11, 20131:55 pm
    by MrBlockedShot

    Reply

    Monroe has been my favorite Pistons player since he joined the team. But enough is enough. His defensive game was awful, as it is most of the times. His defense on Love was so pathetic I wanted Harrelson to get much more time on the court as he was performing so well. Monroe deserved to be benched for the rest of the game after the first quarter. As for Smith, his defense on Brewer was simply non existant. Brewer got open looks and drove for easy dunks at will. What scares me most of him is that he has been in the league for many years and he’s not able yet to realize how to defend guys and get stops and avoid dumb shots. Trade both if possible and get something in return Joe D!
    Coaching was poor last night, and couldn’t understand why Cheeks kept some matchups that were killing us so much time: Love, Brewer, Pekovic… And then he brings Jerebko to the game, oh man…Fortunatelly he played much better than he has been doing for the whole season. Datome shows no improvement at all and Villanueva is a dead body on the bench. So the majority of our forwards are not able to hit a shot or are useless on the defense (or both). Baaaaaad news

  • Dec 11, 20132:24 pm
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    He is right no one can stop Monroe this year and he definately is an escape goat, just how Jeff Backus was for the Lions for so many.  The guy can play, doesn’t fit the system or the team.  The guy CAN play ball and I think he will be an all star elsewhere.  Should not panic and immediately trade him, give it time and we will get more in return.  Would love some type of three way trade deal giving up Jennings and Monroe and some how get Rondo and another whatever three.

    • Dec 11, 20133:25 pm
      by jg22

      Reply

      The Lions offensive line has been one of the best in the league since replacing Backus. So maybe fans were right on that one.

  • Dec 11, 20132:25 pm
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    Meaning no one can stop love not monroe^

  • Dec 11, 20132:35 pm
    by Ramon T-rod

    Reply

    Love is too good for most power forwards anyways. We need to have Josh Smith come off the bench and play powerforward so he doesnt keep chucking up three pointers.

  • Dec 11, 20132:37 pm
    by George Blaha

    Reply

    I agree with Ramon. Trade Smith for Shumpert and Amare or Monroe for Barnes. Go Pistons

  • Dec 11, 20132:40 pm
    by Georgio

    Reply

    Love had a good game but he was 6-15 with 4 TO, his FTs and 3s made his bottom line look good. Monroe was 5-7 with 2 TO and it was obvious that Love could not check him either.  Monroe should have been more aggressive for sure but with Jennings looking for his shot and turning the ball over 6 times it’s not surprising that he got up only 7 shots. Otis seems to think Monroe should shoot every time he touches the ball but that’s not team ball but I do think he should force the issue more, especially when he has an advantage like last night. That being said, actually having a PG that looks to get players the ball where they are most effective instead of just dribbling for the sake of dribbling then throwing the ball away would be nice. Rubio had 0 TO because when he was dribbling in and out of our lane he had a plan, make the defense commit then pass out to Love or another shooter. Jennings had no such plan, he was just dribbling. Monroe has shortcomings for sure, but this dump him for anybody reframe is crazy. I’m a fan of the Pistons, not the players, and any move that would make the Pistons better, I’m for, just be careful what you wish for.

    • Dec 11, 20132:57 pm
      by Kamal

      Reply

      Yeah, people look at Jennings’ final game stats and think he’s a good point guard. He’s not. Monroe needs more attempts for sure. He’s too good. On this current team, he’s the fourth option? For real?
       
      And for Otis to keep blaming Monroe for the team’s struggles is ridiculous. Who was sticking Pekovic? What about Rubio? Martin? The team got schooled last night. That’s all. 

    • Dec 11, 20133:19 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Let’s look at Love’s stat line just from when Monroe was in the game:

      5 defensive rebounds
      3 offensive rebounds
      24 points 
      6-7 from the field, 4-5 from beyond the arc, 8-8 from the line (4 FTs on fouls by Monroe)
      3 assists
      3 TOs (1 caused by Monroe)

      With Harrellson on him, Love shot 0-4 (plus the 5th miss that was the KCP block) and had 4 boards. With Jerebko on him, Love shot 0-3 and had 4 boards.

      So apparently I did pick on Monroe for the wrong thing. He “only” got beat on the boards 8-2 but got destroyed in terms of letting Love score at will where every other Pistons did a great job defending the man.

      • Dec 11, 20133:29 pm
        by jg22

        Reply

        Excellent post. I was wondering how much of Love’s big game was on Monroe, and the numbers pretty much are spot on with what I thought I saw.
         
        Also, numbers or not, it was apparent to everyone watching that Harrellson was doing a good job on him. Which makes Cheeks decision to go back to Monroe all the more confusing. 
         
        It feels like Cheeks is trying to run for office with all this politcal BS, more than he’s trying to win games.

      • Dec 11, 20134:01 pm
        by jamesjones_det

        Reply

        What did you use to look up those stats or did you go back and watch the game? 
         
        P.S.  I’m not questioning anything here I just was curious if there is a site you use that has detailed breakdowns on what players were on the floor at what times.

        • Dec 11, 20135:18 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          I went through ESPN’s play-by-play. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any easy way to get this info.

          http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400489188&period=0

          Monroe and Love were both in the game from 12:00-1:21 in the first, 5:52-2:01 in the second, and 12:00-6:13 in the third.

          • Dec 11, 20137:47 pm
            by jamesjones_det

            Bummer I was hoping there was a better way than the game logs and I just hand discovered it yet (I forgotten about play by play until you mentioned it).
             
            Thanks for sharing.

      • Dec 11, 20134:33 pm
        by Kamal

        Reply

        Terrible post. Jerebko and Harrelson can’t guard Love any better than Monroe. He just cooled off. Stop fronting.

        • Dec 11, 20135:24 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          That’s a possible explanation. But 6-7 vs 0-8 is pretty damning. He must have cooled off really fast, too. Because in the first 10 and a half minutes, Love shot 3-4 and got 4 FTs. In the remaining minutes and a half, right after Harrelson replaced Monroe, he missed 4 shots.

          Now I wouldn’t expect nearly so stark a disparity between the players’ performances in a rematch, but it is pretty undeniable that everyone did a better job than Monroe at covering Love in this game.

          Also, what is fronting? I work in construction, so I naturally think of the material on the front of a building. But on a basketball forum, I’d normally assume you meant staying in front of a player to deny him a pass. That doesn’t fit this context either, though.

          • Dec 11, 20135:45 pm
            by Kamal

            Stop Fronting means to stop faking but in this context it means tell the whole story. As the hole story is no 7 footer can defend Kevin Love. you back up, he sticks the 3. You move out on him, he’ll go by you. Check his game logs.He’s killing everybody. And the last time he played against Josh Smith, he went for 30.
             
            Love is a tough cover and Jerebko and Harrelson would get torched the same if they started the game out on him as well.
             
            i think you know all of this and that’s why I said to stop fronting. But you may see it differently.

      • Dec 11, 20134:54 pm
        by Georgio

        Reply

        Come on Tim, it’s not like Love was killing Monroe all by himself. The situation was usually that Rubio was getting into our paint, either by pick and roll or just beating Jennings off the dribble and the defense, i.e. Monroe, had to sag to slow down penetration and Rubio kicked it out to Love  for the shot and Monroe had to scramble to get to him. Love then would shoot if he had enough space or pump fake and drive if he didn’t. All this was caused by guard penetration by both Rubio and Berrea, Jennings nor Billups could keep their man in front of them and that freed up Love and the other shooters. Most of our problems with 3pt shooting defense starts with Jennings getting beat and the defense having to help, I almost wish he would play so far off his man that he couldn’t possibly get by him, at least only his man would have open jumpers and not everybody else.  

    • Dec 11, 20133:20 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Also, I’m now considering retroactively revising Monroe’s grade to an F.

      Well done in forcing me to check my work, I guess.

      • Dec 11, 20133:31 pm
        by jg22

        Reply

        Don’t worry, you’ll probably have another chance to give Monroe an F tonight, after Ryan Anderson puts 10 three-pointers on him. LOL

        • Dec 11, 20135:25 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          I won’t be grading tonight, but I also don’t go out of my way to pick on Monroe. He’s a very good player. But he did an awful job guarding Love.

  • Dec 11, 20133:04 pm
    by Dave

    Reply

    Many people complain about Rondo ,but the  permiter defense would be  better and maybe because he is  buds with Josh  Smith he could get in  JSmoove  face when he jacks up bad shots and  I think it would inspire the team  to play better  team  D BECAUSE he will demand  it.

    • Dec 11, 20133:33 pm
      by jg22

      Reply

      This is my thoughts too. Rondo would instantly solve a lot of our defensive problems. Plus by moving Smith inside and removing Monroe, our defense would improve as well.
       
      Like you said, Rondo is a no nonsense guy and wouldn’t put up with Smith playing poorly, and because he’s friends with him, he wouldn’t be afraid to call him out, and maybe Smith would actually listen to him because they are friends.
       
      Monroe/Jennings for Rondo makes a lot of sense

  • Dec 11, 20133:05 pm
    by Dave

    Reply

     I  meant perimiter..

  • Dec 11, 20137:46 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    for all of the trade monroe crowd..
    i have a simple question…
    when was the last time a team traded a player similar to monroe – seven footer, in 3rd-4th year, all rookie second year, career numbers of 13.5 ppt, 9 tbs, 51% shooting percentage – and if a player like him  has been traded, what did the team get for him?
    the closest i’ve come to a guy like him being traded was bogut being traded to GS and GS got a premier talent – monta ellis, along with a lottery pick.  and bogut is not really similar because bogut was actually injured and rehabbing from a serious, almost career-threatening injury when he was traded.  and he has a very bad and continuous injury history.  monroe, on the other hand, has been an iron man, basically playing in all of his team’s games since coming into the league.
    so…who has been as dumb as some want detroit to be…trading a young, productive big man about to enter the prime of his career?  and what did they get?

  • Dec 11, 20138:21 pm
    by pistons moribund

    Reply

    Apples, oranges.  If you compare the league to available big men who got max contracts or new contract and then compare their productivity to Bullwinkle’?, Smith, cough cough (considering all the bitching about his play is for someone who is playing out of position) cough cough.  The question should be, who would you rather have at PF (not smith playing SF).  I think the answer becomes very clear.  Smith, at his very reasonable contract, should be the answer hands down.  Its not b/c Bullwinkle has a bad game, but because Monroe has horrible games against elite talent, elite talent that he would have to meet if the Pistons are to contend.  On a horrible team, he is a great player, but on a good team, he’s meh.

    • Dec 11, 201311:17 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      bullshyte.
      the question is simple and relevant and on target.  
      when was the last time a team traded a comparable big man like monroe?
      it is apples to apples.
      just because the team’s situation has been complicated because of smith’s presence does not make the separate issue of monroe’s value irrelevant and inseparable.
      and contrary to your suggestion, any halfway cogent analysis of the two players clearly shows that monroe is a superior player to smith.  smith, despite his ability to stuff the stat sheet, kills teams because of his dumb play.
      and his contract, though  traceable, as any contract is, is not on a “reasonable” contract for a player of his talent.
      on the other hand, the player atlanta replaced him with, another superior player, paul mil sap, is on a reasonable contract.  just because joe was dumb enough to give it to him doesn’t make it reasonable.

      • Dec 11, 201311:37 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        or i should have said that it is not a reasonable contract for a player who plays as smith plays, which is along the lines of the dumbest players in the league.
        as far as talent is concerned, smith is a top 10, probably top 5 talent.  his incredibly and inexplicably dumb play lessens the value of such a talented player.

      • Dec 12, 20131:08 am
        by pistons moribund

        Reply

        Please define “halfway cogent?”  Superior in what way exactly?  Are you aware that Smith is playing out of position?  Are you aware that Smith, when playing in the PF position is better then Bullwinkle?  Are you aware that Smith has a game outside of five feet from the rim.  Are you aware that Smith has been charged with guarding LBJ?  So from your fully “cogent analysis,” how is the play of Bullwinkle superior to that of Smith in the PF position?

        • Dec 12, 20133:01 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          Take a look at the stats.  It is simple. Monroe’s numbers pretty much across the board are simply better.
          Period.

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