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Pelicans could test bad-shot limits of Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith

Essentials

  • Teams: Detroit Pistons (10-12) at New Orleans Pelicans (9-10)
  • Date: December 11, 2013
  • Time: 8 p.m.
  • Television: Fox Sports Detroit

What to look for

Ryan Schwan of Bourbon Street Shots wrote a fantastic post about the Pelicans’ defense. The gist: They’re good to average at defense when it comes to forcing turnovers, securing rebounds and keeping the opponent off the free-throw line.

But they’re really bad at forcing bad shots and then contesting them.

So this game should be a test for Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith, two Pistons who have a proclivity for taking bad shots.

Sometimes, bad shots are a necessity. When the shot-clock gets low, it’s not always possible to generate a good look. In those situations, Jennings – and to a lesser degree, Smith – are fine candidates to create a better bad shot. There’s value in that.

But those two take plenty of bad shots when they’re not necessary.

If the season trends Schwan outlined hold true tonight – and Maurice Cheeks implements an offensive plan that does even a reasonably good job of creating good shots – the Pistons should be stuck with few bad shots. That puts the onus on Jennings and Smith to choose their shots wisely.

Tonight presents an interesting mental challenge for them, and whether they meet it could go a long in whether Detroit wins.

Read about the Pelicans

Bourbon Street Shots

83 Comments

  • Dec 11, 20137:54 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Is anyone around here expecting our poorly assembled team to win this game? We’ve won like 2 games against western conference foes the last couple of seasons with both coming at the expense of the Kings who don’t really count as a real basketball team. I really want to see us playing good basketball this season but I don’t think that can happen unless there is a shake up. Even in our wins this season we’ve played like sh!t which says a lot. Here is the first Greg Monroe trade proposal for the day…
    Monroe/Villanueva
    Evan Turner/Thad Young

    • Dec 11, 20138:05 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Whoops i forgot to add the that the trade works:
      http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6376161
       
      Philly does it: A frontline of Monroe/Hawes is not the best on the defensive end but could work on the other end with Hawes being able to stretch the floor. Once Noel comes back (next season??) he will be a great compliment for either. They also get CV’s expiring deal which is all he’s worth.
       
      Detroit does it: Where do we start. Fo one we get a better fitting piece in Turner at SF which in turn moves Smith back to PF which solves a lot of problems in itself. Thad Young is a great piece that makes up the fact that we’re giving up the better player in the deal (Monroe). Thad has piston written all over him. What do you all think? Otis I know you’ll have something to add.

      • Dec 11, 20138:44 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        I don’t think it helps Detroit much. Turner’s defense is so bad that I don’t know if Detroit’s defense actually improves defensively after the trade if he does in fact. What’s more, he is shooting .254 on 3s so he doesn’t really help the floor spacing either. Detroit might actually be better off starting Young and Smith, which would then leave Smith defending SFs still. Yet Turner’s averaging 20 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists a game. Someone is going to pay that guy, and I wouldn’t want it to be Detroit.
         
        It would be nice to add a guy in the front court rotation that can actually make a jump shot, so I do like getting Thad Young. Still, I don’t know if that trade really addresses Detroit’s problems that effectively. I think I’d rather just suck it up with Monroe and hope for the best in free agency.
         
        As for Philly, I love the trade for them. Moving 2 useful players for 1 helps their tanking chances this year. What’s more, I’d much rather be looking at giving Monroe that new deal than Turner if it comes to that. I think a Monroe and Hawes front court would be too disastrous defensively to be something they really consider rolling with, but they are both assets that could easily be moved. If they do it now then they could move Monroe this year. Send him to Boston for Avery Bradley and even more draft picks, then sideline MCW with some ill defined phantom injury to really get their tank on. After that they roll with MCW, Noel, Hawes, and whatever they get for their crap ton of picks they would have assembled. Add in Bradley as yet another defender they can bring off the bench and that is a team that could be really good in a couple years.

        • Dec 11, 20139:02 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          Yeah I agree with your assessment of Turner. I was just trying to spark up some trade conversation. I don’t think there is anyone even watching tonights game.

          • Dec 11, 20139:59 pm
            by Lorenzo

            I think it’s tough to fish out any obvious trades/deals at the moment…by mid-January we should start getting a better grasp of needs, availability, and willingness. Regardless, from a fan’s perspective it seems like Monroe is the prime candidate to be shipped out–likely for a wing–again the problem is there is no obvious swap that works. I think some patience will be required as injuries and other chips get swapped around in the association before a better fit/deal rears it’s head. Although not pure 3′s IMHO Afflalo and Shumpert would be great fits with this squad…and you would have to think their respective teams will be open to moving them (Afflalo, certainly), deals could be brokered here in some way or form. It will also be curious to see what the Nuggets, Warriors (esp. in regards to Barnes), and Jazz (Hayward) do as their seasons respectively unfold. 

          • Dec 11, 201310:07 pm
            by gmehl

            Monroe for Hayward would be a good swap but the only problem is Utah don’t need him because they already have there front court set. They were in same position as us the last couple of seasons with Millsap, Jefferson, Favors and Kanter. I still wouldn’t mind Otto Porter and a future 1st rounder.

          • Dec 11, 201310:25 pm
            by Lorenzo

            Yeah it wouldn’t be a horrible trade considering they are both in similar situations contractually (though you would think as a big, Monroe, would be valued slightly more) but like you mentioned the Jazz are set at the 4 and 5. I think if Monroe does end up getting moved (for whom ever)…it ends up being a 3 team deal for that very reason, not sensible straight up swap available. 

          • Dec 11, 201310:55 pm
            by Huddy

            Trades where the other team have obvious reasons for not being willing to participate fall under “don’t work”.  Matching salaries and comparable talent are fun in espn’s trade machine, but when you take into account that the other team’a goal will be to get the most talent or sacrifice talent by unloading the most unwanted cap-constricting salaries…finding a trade in the real world is much more complicated than getting a “nice wing” or “solid picks”

          • Dec 11, 201311:33 pm
            by oats

            Utah should definitely do a Hayward for Monroe swap. Have you seen the Jazz lately? Hayward has turned into an inefficient chucker. He’s shooting under 40% from the field and under 30% on 3s. He’s doing too much with the ball. The 4.7 assists are nice, but he also has turned it over 3 times. Plus he doesn’t play any defense. If that wasn’t enough, Enes Kanter has stunk. 6 rebounds a game in 30 minutes is pretty terrible for a center. They’ve actually been experimenting with playing Favors at center largely because they have so little faith in Kanter right now. So if they do the swap they will have Monroe take over as the primary scoring option with Favors as the defender in the front court, and their rebounding will greatly improve. Kanter will then move to the bench where he can just focus on the only thing he does even ok, namely scoring. It will also free up more time for Alec Burks, and it will let Trey Burke step into a bigger role in the offense. Seriously, the only reason not to do this is that it might improve them too much when they are currently in the driver seat for lottery position. Yet they still play in the loaded Western Conference, they are still starting Richard Jefferson, and they can limit minutes to Burke and Burks if they start winning too much. I feel like I need to mention that I don’t think Burks is all that good, he’s just been less awful as a shooter than Hayward this season. Oh, and they will have to pay Monroe more than they would need to pay Hayward because Monroe is just a much better player than Hayward, so I guess that is a consideration too.
             
            As for Detroit, well, Hayward’s problems largely stem from having to do too much. He essentially had to play point guard for awhile as well as be the only real scoring threat in the starting lineup. Quite frankly, that is not his game. With Jennings, Smith, and Drummond in Detroit he will be able to go back to playing more like he did last year. He’s still never been a good defender, but he was closer to passable last year when he wasn’t over exerting himself on offense. The problem is that if reducing his role doesn’t fix the problem then that trade is really lopsided in favor of Utah. I think a straight up trade would be too risky for the Pistons. Detroit could ask for one of the Golden State picks to help offset that risk, but I don’t know if Utah would be interested in that.
             
            Porter is a different matter entirely. He was a prospect that I really liked this summer, but man has he not done anything to look like interesting. He’s played a whopping 21 minutes this year and gone 0 for 3 from the field in that time. Some of that is that Ariza and Webster are both playing well, but he looked awful in the preseason too. That move would just be a total shot in the dark. Maybe Porter is a guy that is a little slow adjusting the NBA and got caught behind a pair of solid veterans on a team trying to make the playoffs, and maybe he’s just a huge bust. I believe in taking shots on lottery picks that haven’t really put it together, but I’m not so fond of that as a trade for someone as valuable as Monroe. It’s not really a trade that Dumars would remotely consider right now though. He is dead set on making the playoffs this year and that trade could put that in jeopardy. I know the East is terrible, but moving Monroe for a guy that we have to assume will contribute nothing this year seems far too risky for Dumars.

          • Dec 11, 201311:37 pm
            by Max

            The whole Utah debacle proved that it isn’t as easy as people think to trade talented bigs.  I’m sure Utah didn’t intend to let Jefferson and Millsap walk for nothing but they never got a good enough offer where they felt like they weren’t trading pennies on the dollar.  It’s tough to trade a big you’re if not getting one back right now as the major piece and think you’re going to get equal value because there are so few good wings and the point guard position is so valuable.  
            Still, Monroe does have value.  Someone made fun of me for suggesting Monroe and Smith should be packaged but I really do think it might be necessary to trade Monroe with something to go for the better players because the near equal kind of pieces are really lacking right now.  If there are no good trade for Monroe’s equals and near equals, why not try and make a splash by packing players to go for his betters or the equals that won’t say yes for just Monroe.  
            On that front, packaging Monroe with Jennings could possibly bring back a great point guard.  
            BTW: @Whoever was disagreeing with me about that Monroe plus Smith to the Bucks.   You’d said the Bucks wouldn’t do it because they are tanking.  They don’t tank.  They just suck right now.   The owner is adamantly anti-tanking and is just the owner to authorize making a play for the playoffs even with their bad record and the great draft looming.    

          • Dec 12, 201312:08 am
            by oats

            I think you are wrong about Utah. Utah is one of the teams that cares about profit margin. They held onto Millsap and Jefferson because it gave them another playoff pay day. They fully intended to then tank this year and try to reload that way, so that was one last playoff push before they got really bad. There were a lot rumors about a Paul Millsap for Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler’s contract, and most of the rumors said that it was Utah walking away because they wanted that last playoff season.

          • Dec 12, 201312:18 am
            by gmehl

            @Max I think your talking about me but I wasn’t making fun of you or your idea in trading Monroe and Smith. You suggested a deal with Portland, a deal with OKC and a deal with Milwaukee. I stated that I couldn’t see Portland changing there chemistry they having going with that team atm. They are kind of the opposite of us in that there parts all fit together so why would they disrupt it. The OKC deal would also disrupt what they have going on but I felt giving up Monroe/Smith for Ibaka/Lamb would be undercutting us and then we are left with a Drummond/Ibaka frontline which would struggle on offence as nether guy can create his own shot. The Milwaukee deal of Monroe/Smith for Ilaysova/Henson/Mayo/Butler/Middleton wouldn’t be bad but apart from the fact that wouldn’t have a roster spot for all of them wouldn’t really make us any better. In that deal I think you’d have to cut Datome, Siva and Butler to make it work.

          • Dec 12, 201312:37 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            the only way Porter name should come up is  as a filler with BEAL!
            please stop the porter mess…if we did a trade with washington id take glen rice JR over Porter…
             

        • Dec 12, 20131:20 am
          by Max

          Reply

          @gmehl   I guess I wasn’t clear but I just meant Smith and Monroe as a starting point for deals.  The Pistons could add more in a Bucks trade but I also didn’t mean all those players but rather some combination of the players.   I also said in my post that the Blazers wouldn’t do such a deal right now because of how well they are playing.   As for Ibaka, I’d do that deal if I was Joe.  Ibaka can shoot and it’s intriguing defensively.  

          • Dec 12, 20133:29 am
            by oats

            Monroe and Smith for Ibaka and Lamb is a really bad deal for OKC, even if we assume that OKC includes Perkins in what they send out. Ibaka is better than Smith, cheaper than Smith, and younger than Smith. The only way it makes any sense is if they keep Monroe. We’re talking about a team that refused to give max deals to Westbrook and Harden, so do you like their odds of even retaining Monroe? If they do then that means they will have to pay him tons of money, and they will also be paying Smith lots of money. You can get away with 2 big deals and 2 good size deals. You can get away with 3 big deals. 4 big deals puts teams in the tax, and that’s some place that OKC clearly doesn’t want to be. That’s all before you get into the shaking up a potential contender, or the fact that they reportedly are reasonably high on Lamb as a prospect. Yeah, that deal makes no sense for OKC.
             
            By the way, you may have guessed, but I absolutely would do it if I’m Detroit. Detroit gets the best player in the deal, they get more cap space by getting out of Smith’s deal, and they are getting a young prospect in Lamb. They do run the risk of getting a bit worse this year if Lamb can’t crack the rotation, but that’s still a really big win for Detroit in my mind.

  • Dec 11, 20138:00 pm
    by Zdwtr

    Reply

    Lay off jennings. his fg % is up cos he’s deliberately tries to change his game by shooting less bad shots. his main downfall is his overdribbling but taking bad shots is not the current issues if you follow the games closely lately. Smith on the other hand

  • Dec 11, 20139:00 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Evans with 14 second quarter points… owch!

  • Dec 11, 20139:06 pm
    by zdwtr

    Reply

    Jennings is hot

  • Dec 11, 20139:38 pm
    by jinzzy

    Reply

    dam , can we rebound the ball please Geez

  • Dec 11, 20139:56 pm
    by NJ

    Reply

    Harrellson is a beast

  • Dec 11, 201310:07 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    We making Jason Smith look like Kevin Love…. sad sad sad!

    • Dec 11, 201310:31 pm
      by Jopl

      Reply

      I didn’t even know who Jason Smith was…

  • Dec 11, 201310:16 pm
    by Lorenzo

    Reply

    Even with if he gets blocked…when he attacks the basket, Josh Smith just looks so effective. Sounds like a broken record, but has to be said.

  • Dec 11, 201310:26 pm
    by Hook Shot

    Reply

    Pathetic. This team will miss the playoffs. Cheeks may be more congenial than Frank, but he is consistently outcoached. They need a trade(Monroe) badly. 

  • Dec 11, 201310:27 pm
    by jinzzy

    Reply

    mouse’s d is killing us 
     

    • Dec 11, 201310:48 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Who is this mouse you speak of??

      • Dec 11, 201311:03 pm
        by jinzzy

        Reply

        Moose* , my bad

        • Dec 11, 201311:11 pm
          by Parsons

          Reply

          Mouse is more accurate on defense.

          • Dec 11, 201311:24 pm
            by gmehl

            Yep i agree…

  • Dec 11, 201310:31 pm
    by Lorenzo

    Reply

    my gawd what is it with us leaving andersen open for jumpers……SMH

  • Dec 11, 201310:42 pm
    by jinzzy

    Reply

    we are running a play for singler !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Dec 11, 201310:43 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    The word is out loud and clear pistons can not guard pick and roll. Or stretch 4/5…. And we have no perimeter offense…it was great when kyle was shooting lights out but back to earth we land

    • Dec 11, 201310:53 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Yeah its amazing what floor spacing does when you have guys (Singler) knocking down there shots. It’s too bad it only happens once every 10-12 games. I guess if this keeps happening then EVENTUALLY Joe will have to start worrying about his job and make some moves… RIGHT??

      • Dec 11, 201311:22 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        we are 10-13 …. we could probably be 13-10…
         
        But Joe cant let this get away from us…
        Cheeks is a okay coach, but i dont think he has the ability to team this group to click…unless Kyle is shooting lights out…
        but defensively is what worries me, … soo much attention on on stopping ryan anderson and helping greag it made it easy for Jason Smith to get buckets..then when they stopped helping Greg on defense he got ate up by Anderson

        • Dec 11, 201311:36 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          To tell the truth winning or losing this game doesn’t really matter. Its the fact that our team is a bunch of parts that either though highly talented, just don’t fit together. IMO probably the worse thing that could happen now is us going on a 3-4 game win streak which will only mask that big dirty secret we all know exists. Most of us talk around the subject and look for excuses and then there are some of us that are willing to state the obvious… looking at you Otis. The way I see things atm is that if we keep going with the same team the way it is then come the trade deadline both Monroe’s and Smith’s trade value will take a big hit. Both don’t look comfortable 95% of the time and I think it is now time to pull the plug on the big 3 experiment. Heck if you were to switch Trevor Ariza with Smith or Monroe then we’d instantly become a better team. I’m not saying Ariza is a better player but he is a better fitting player.
           
          Silly me went out and bought league pass this season and with the way we’re playing this season I don’t even feel like using it… even the wins feel like losses!

  • Dec 11, 201310:43 pm
    by Hook Shot

    Reply

    Just pathetic. Where is the D?  

  • Dec 11, 201310:51 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Jason Smith normal average 10ppg 6 rebs…. nuffin said… Greg or Josh has to go… no matter who is coaching this team we just don’t have the balance needed…its too much pressure on kyle to be the main perimeter player game after game…
     
    And the defense look horrible…. teams are simply spread the floor anex taking advantage of Greg inability to defend on the perimeter

  • Dec 11, 201310:53 pm
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    Where you at now Otis?  Greg followed up a bad game with a great game?  No not saying he should stay or fits the system, just proving you wrong that the guy is a future all star elsewhere.

    • Dec 11, 201310:59 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Oh this is going to be an interesting reply. I haven’t watched the game yet but it wasn’t Monroe by any chance that was supposed to be defending Anderson in overtime was it? If so then 28 and 10 doesn’t mean shit if you can’t defend your matchup. I am a firm believer that to be an elite NBA player you need to be able to defend up or down a position. Monroe can barely hold his own at C and that is being nice.

      • Dec 11, 201311:01 pm
        by DetroitP

        Reply

        lol half response to get his blood flowing.  He played shitty defense but honestly Dre looked bad today, and the help total defense was weak.   Stuckey looked legit tho

        • Dec 11, 201311:42 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          not defending dre…but he has to do too much defensively…
          he is our best pick and roll defender…
          best rebounder….
          only legit lane stuffer…
          he has to come away further and further from the basket to help greg… and that hurts the team

          • Dec 11, 201311:55 pm
            by oats

            First of all, yes he does do a lot defensively. The thing is, a good coach would have him do more. He should have been the one guarding Ryan Anderson when the starting lineup was out there, with Josh Smith guarding Ryan Smith and hiding Monroe on Aminu. At a bare minimum they should have put Smith on Anderson and Monroe on Aminu. I really don’t understand the game plan for this game.

          • Dec 12, 201312:30 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            i agree….but that only works when you decide to defend man to man… the pistons play and practice zone too much

      • Dec 11, 201311:50 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        I thought all 3 of the main bigs played pretty lousy D to be honest. The guy who played the best defensively in the front court was probably Harrelson. Greg was definitely the worst of them, but there was a fair amount of blame to spread around in my opinion. Oh, and it’s not like Anderson was actually good today. He made 1/3 of his shots and had only 1 rebound. Yeah, Greg’s D was bad, but Detroit needed every bit of Greg’s 28 and 10 to hang in that game. I’d definitely call him a net positive at least, which is more than I can say for Smith. Aminu absolutely destroyed Smith on the boards, and 11 points on 15 shots is pretty terrible.

    • Dec 12, 20134:37 am
      by Otis

      Reply

      Correction: Greg followed up three consecutive bad games (2 losses) with a great offensive game (another loss), which is different from a great overall game. He let his man kill us with all those open threes like he never read a scouting report. This is a bad team, it went 1-3 during that four game stretch, and getting Moose’s sleepy ass out on the trade block is the surest way to add talent and put pieces in place for sustainable success. Greg is not the answer. Dumping Smith for nothing is not the answer. And don’t egg me on when this stiff has a good game once in a while. He wins the PF battle maybe 1/5 of the time, so take that claptrap and cram it.

  • Dec 11, 201310:54 pm
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    Greg looked good its clear we have to make a change, it’ll happen just gotta wait to the deadline

    • Dec 11, 201311:10 pm
      by jacob

      Reply

      I wouldn’t be surprised if we seen some trades after this weekend.

      • Dec 11, 201311:25 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        If we do a trade this weekend…..we’ll trade Greg for Green

        • Dec 11, 201311:32 pm
          by Jacob

          Reply

          Joe D likes rondo. I said this weekend because players that signed in the off season can be traded starts the 15th. Also anyone that a team may want to trade for now and then maybe at the deadline on feb 20th has to be on your roster by the 19th. So the 15th through the 19th. If we are going to do something it should be soon. I wouldn’t mind seeing Monroe, Charlie V, and Singler for Rondo and Green.

          • Dec 11, 201311:39 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Celtics are not trading Rondo…. not for Greg…
            i wouldnt… 
             
            they would move Green, Lee and future pick….

          • Dec 12, 201312:30 am
            by Parsons

            Why do we still want Rondo? I know he’s good and all but wouldn’t trading for a SF or a tall SG we can pretend is SF be better? I mean it is a bigger need and Monroe is valuable enough to get Afflalo or Hayword, hell even Jeff Green fills a need. Jennings is doing well enough that we should focus on the wings. Give Boston a 2nd rounder and Stuckey and take Jeff Green and his $8,700,000 for 3 years. They get more money we get a SF, sounds about right. Then flip Monroe for Afflalo and Andrew Nicholson. This one should just make both teams cringe but they get younger and should lose a little more and we get a backup big and Afflalo back. Orlando has Tobias Harris coming back soon anyway they don’t need Afflalo.

  • Dec 11, 201311:22 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    I am sick of players at SF/PF (srubs) having career nights against us and most of the time they haven’t been star players. Teams can see that we have 2 guys playing out of position in Monroe and Smith and work the mismatch which is making both players look like fools. What is getting me so down about this season is we were supposed to be a really elite defensive team which we all know is now totally ridiculous. Here is a list Piston killers:
    Trevor Ariza (WAS) 28pts
    Steven Adams (OKC) 17pts 10rebs
    Jermaine O’Neal (GS) 17pts 6rebs
    Jordan Hill (LAL) 24pts 17rebs
    DeMarre Carroll (ATL) 10pts 12rebs
    Taj Gibson (CHI) 23pts 8rebs
    Taj Gibson (CHI) 21pts 10rebs
    Shawne Williams (LAL) 20pts 9rebs
    Thad Young (PHIL) 24pts 5rebs
    Michael Beasley (MIA) 23pts 4rebs
    Ersan Ilyasova (MIL) 22pts 10rebs
     

    • Dec 11, 201311:30 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      Trust me Josh Smith is a heck of a defender. It is Monroe. 

      • Dec 12, 201312:15 am
        by oats

        Reply

        @ Knight. Josh Smith looks like a lousy defensive SF though, so it’s not just Monroe. Admittedly he is only playing the 3 because Monroe is also on the court, but that’s not exactly Monroe’s fault.
         
        @ Gmehl. Ariza is actually good this year so he probably doesn’t belong on that list. Thad Young also does not belong on that list. Young is a good player. Adams, O’Neal, and Jason Smith all did most of their damage while playing center. I know Smith wasn’t on your list since you didn’t watch this game yet, but he’s

        • Dec 12, 201312:17 am
          by oats

          Reply

          he’s a scrub too.*

          • Dec 12, 201312:28 am
            by gmehl

            Oats this wasn’t mean’t to be one filled with scrubs but rather just pointing out there players that have killed us due to Monroe/Smith playing out of position. I know Adams and O’Neal are centres but felt I had to add them as I felt they either had a career night or a golden years flash back (Jemaine’s case).

  • Dec 11, 201311:28 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    I don’t give a fu***ck if u drop 28 or 50 points. That three made us lose. I would take Josh Smith’s defense over Greg Monroe’s offense any day. Josh Smith is not scoring cuz there is no space for him in the post. Monroe needs to go. We need a legit SF. 

    • Dec 11, 201311:40 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      BS.  smith has played the same way on any team he has played.
      look at his record.  that is the good thing about numbers and stats.  there is a point where you simply cannot ignore them, and in smith’s case, they are utterly damning.
      he is what his stats say he is…
      to paraphrase denny green.

      • Dec 11, 201311:52 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Frankie that makes no sense…
        he average between 46%-50% shooting in the last 6-7 years 16-19ppg 8-9rebs 
        Clearly plays SF does not suit him with this team…unlike in atlanta he might have took bad shots but he then could redeem himself by working the ball in the paint…he can not redeem himself with Greg and Drummond…
        he is taking almost 5 three a game,,,the most he has averaged was 2.6 … if he played at PF his 3 ball attempted would be limited and he be able to attack more…
        Greg is just the odd man out

        • Dec 12, 201312:44 am
          by oats

          Reply

          I honestly think that Smith and Monroe have roughly equivalent values on the court, assuming of course they are allowed to play with 3 perimeter players on the court with them. Monroe is currently playing better than Smith since he has a role that better suits his strengths, but if the other guy was gone then they would be pretty similar in terms of production. I really don’t think that it’s Monroe that is the odd man out. Monroe is the one more likely to go because Smith has been awful this year and he’s getting paid a lot of money. I just don’t see how Detroit can get a useful piece for Smith the way he is playing. Seriously, if Detroit got more than just getting out of Smith’s deal a bit faster then I’d be surprised.

      • Dec 12, 201312:18 am
        by jg22

        Reply

        Look at Monroe’s record. Never been on a winning team in his career. 
         
        Smith took Atlanta to the playoffs 5 straight years.
         
        If you had to bet on which player gave us the better chance to be a winning team, based on their history, how could anyone side with Monroe? He’s got to prove it first, and he’s in his 4th year and we are still a sub .500 team with him as a starter. That means something.

        • Dec 12, 201312:34 am
          by gmehl

          Reply

          I don’t think you can put those shitty 4 years on Monroe. Those 4 years are on Joe and Joe alone.

          • Dec 12, 201312:42 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            Greg has more limitation than Josh Smith…
            on greg very best day…you would never say…we are going to play you 30 mins against Melo, Lebron, Durant, Love, ect…and even think for a second he’d stand a chance…
             
            i really liked greg and wanted it to work badly…. but here we are almost 25 games n…and we saw what shooting can d for this team when Singler went on his shooting streaky…
            like someone mentioned do with sturggled over the next 10-15 games hoping Singler find his touch again?
             

          • Dec 12, 201312:53 am
            by jg22

            I’m not putting them strictly on Greg, I’m just saying look at how much roster turnover and different coach’s we’ve had over the last 4 years, and Greg is the only constants in the starting lineup. Why is is that none of these combos around him have been able to produce winning basketball?
             
            Eventually you have to start wondering maybe he just isn’t the type of player that you can win with. When you consider how bad his defense is, should anyone be surprised that we haven’t won with him? You win with defense and he’s not good at it, so its not too much of a stretch to think he might be a player who you just can’t win with

          • Dec 12, 20131:22 am
            by oats

            I put it on the fact that his teammates and coaches were awful. Last year the team had 4 guys that deserved to start in the NBA. Calderon and Prince are two of them, and obviously they weren’t on the team at the same time. Drummond is the 3rd, but he was only given 10 starts for some reason. Monroe makes 4. The year before that it was Stuckey, Prince, and Monroe. His rookie year it was Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, and Monroe. Hamilton only played 55 games in Detroit, and it was his rookie season so it’s hard to really place much blame on him. He also was coached by John Kuester and Lawrence Frank. I think Frank is closer to an average coach than most people seem to, but he’s still bad. So how is the conclusion that a team can’t win with Monroe? Isn’t it far more logical to conclude that a team of scrubs with a bad coach will lose a lot of games? That’s definitely been my take.

  • Dec 12, 201312:03 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    the hope w all had was that Greg would develop the ability to be effective offensively away from the basket…so far he hasnt shown it
    he hoped Greg would be able to defend the 4… and especially the pick and roll… so far he hasnt ….
    that was onna be the difference with this team…we wanted him to be Al Horford like or Lamarcus Aldridge like… but he is just Greg Monroe…
    and the Pistons have a choice to make…we weather the storm and see what happens…understanding that theres always next year…or we make a deal….
    either way it should be done or decided before the deadline…

  • Dec 12, 201312:06 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    trade josh smith for a perimeter player….
     
    we need to start knocking down shots…. so far.. smith is not shooting good shots…. he is not aggressive….. :(

    • Dec 12, 201312:49 am
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      This is stupid. This has nothing to do with aggressiveness. Josh Smith is one of the most active players on the Pistons roster.  This front court is just not working. Monroe is the one to trade.

  • Dec 12, 201312:20 am
    by jg22

    Reply

    Only good news from tonight is that Monroe got his trade stock back up with this statline. 

  • Dec 12, 201312:48 am
    by Jacob

    Reply

    Jeff Green and Olynyk for Monroe would be nice. Also David Lee and Green for Smith. Beal and Ariza or Webster for Monroe and Singler. Hayward plus a 1st round for Monroe and singler.

  • Dec 12, 201312:59 am
    by jg22

    Reply

    What I would like to know is how much longer the Pistons are going to give this experiment, before at least making a lineup change and bringing Monroe or Smith off the bench?
     
    I can’t see how they could be looking at this jumbo experiment as a success thus far at only 10-13. And I can’t see how they could be thinking it just needs more time to gel, 23 games in. 
     
    Something has to give. I doubt we will see any change anytime soon, with big teams coming up the next 3 (BK,POR,IND) where it justifies starting all 3 to matchup. But if they don’t win those games against the big teams, and they aren’t winning games against the small teams because of their size advantage, at some point you wonder what is the point of continuing on with the experiment?

    • Dec 12, 20131:06 am
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      No bench……TRADE. Singler is not the answer.

  • Dec 12, 20131:04 am
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    Whoever think Josh Smith should get traded is an Idiot. Monroe is one
    Advantages of having Smith at the “PF” position.
    Defense Defense Defense Defense. 
    He hustles 
    Good in transition
    He can play and guard multiple positions.
    He can score (paint) and rebound 
    Good passer
    and more
    Remember that game in Sacramento. Well that game shows you what Smith can do. 
     
    But unfortunately we are putting him in the wrong position. He is not a SF. Period.  
     
     

    • Dec 12, 20131:17 am
      by domnick

      Reply

      smith is a bad shooter.. we need someone to space the floor.. and monroe is younger than smith…. 
       
      monroe is a bad defender.. but smith is offense killer….

      • Dec 12, 20131:22 am
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        You don’t need to shoot if you are a power forward.  And BTW Smith can score 17+ points if he is playing the PF position. 
        So basically:
        Smith >>>>>>>>> Monroe

        • Dec 12, 20131:27 am
          by oats

          Reply

          You don’t need to be a good defender if the team can cover for you. They are both flawed players, and the team lacks the ability to adequately make up for either of their deficiencies as the team is currently constructed.
           
          And BTW, 17 points on 16 shots is bad, especially for a big man like a PF. So basically, Smith is roughly equivalent to Monroe.

  • Dec 12, 20131:10 am
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    I don’t know what Monroe is giving us other than 14 points in the paint.

  • Dec 12, 20131:17 am
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    QUESTION QUESTIONS QUESTIONS
    Which Jennings would you rather have?
    15.5 points 8.5 Assists
    20 points 6.5 Assists

    • Dec 12, 20131:32 am
      by Jacob

      Reply

      Doesn’t matter if we win. Points wise it seems about equal.
       

    • Dec 12, 20132:23 am
      by oats

      Reply

      That is actually insufficient data to answer the question, but if I’ll assume that Jennings will keep his same efficiency numbers as he’s had over the season so far, and so will the team. Given that, the answer is 15.5 points and 8.5 assists. Jennings is a less efficient player than his team as a whole, so the guy with more assists will be generating roughly the same number of points while using fewer possessions which makes him the better hypothetical Jennings.

  • Dec 12, 20134:22 am
    by josh

    Reply

    Leonard and Bonner for moose and jj.. Any chance the spurs see Greg as a potential replacement for Duncan? They made splitter look halfway decent in that system, I could see Greg thriving.. Pistons get a great defender who can hit the three and has potential to become really special. Works with caps. I dk if the spurs would be interested but ESPN trade finder says spurs win 5 more games.

  • Dec 12, 20134:45 am
    by Otis

    Reply

    Monroe was effective tonight mainly because he was being fairly decisive. Half the time he gets a touch and doesn’t do shit, defers and then sort of waves half-heartedly like he’s fighting for position, but nobody on the court thinks he actually wants the ball, and the point guard does what any point guard would do in that situation and lets him take the play off rather than give it to a guy who clearly doesn’t want it that bad. And he was constantly moving towards the basket. Fine offensive repertoire for a center. Glaring problems with defense and range to be a respectable PF. Stop kidding yourselves.

    • Dec 12, 201310:42 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      I agree about Monroe and decisiveness.   I also think it was about the motivation of playing in front of his home town and I wish he’d be more motivated in general since he always seems to get up for New Orleans and Sacramento due to his rivalry with Cousins.  

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