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Andre Drummond is so much better better than the 76ers

Philadelphia 76ers 100 Final
Recap | Box Score
115 Detroit Pistons
Greg Monroe, PF 26 MIN | 1-6 FG | 5-6 FT | 10 REB | 4 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 7 PTS | +9

Monroe seemed a step slow on both ends of the court, and that frustrated him into two technical fouls. At least Monroe played mostly within himself prior to his ejection. He kept the ball moving on offense and cleaned the glass on defense. That doesn’t negate his overall poor play, but Monroe’s low-usage game shows a little maturity. I’d much rather get 1-for-6 than 4-for-18 when a player feels off.

Josh Smith, SF 35 MIN | 8-14 FG | 1-2 FT | 2 REB | 5 AST | 0 STL | 3 BLK | 3 TO | 20 PTS | +22

If Smith’s teammates didn’t play so well, his tendency to force bad jumpers would have been more glaring. Three times, Smith took a bad long 2-pointer for no other reason than he looked impatient about not having shot lately. Because those attempts to waste possessions didn’t matter, we can focus on everything Smith did right. He made 3-of-5 3-pointers – all of them at least OK looks – and finished well inside. Smith gets a break for his low rebounding numbers on both ends. The Pistons made 57 percent of their shots with Smith on the court, so there were few offensive rebounding opportunities for him. His interior defense was excellent, and when he’s busy forcing misses, it’s his teammates’ responsibility to grab the boards (which they did). Smith’s perimeter defense remains suspect, however – a real problem for a small forward.

Andre Drummond, C 33 MIN | 12-15 FG | 7-18 FT | 19 REB | 0 AST | 6 STL | 2 BLK | 1 TO | 31 PTS | +25

Drummond was an absolute beast on both ends. His career highs in points, rebounds and steals to go with two blocks give him marks in those four stats that nobody else besides Hakeem Olajuwon achieved since at least 1985-86. And Drummond was as good as the numbers indicate. The 76ers just couldn’t account for him on either end, so they went to hack-a-Drummond. Drummond made just 6-of-14 free throws when sent to the line for two attempts, and the .857 points per possession on those plays probably justified Brett Brown’s strategy, even considering that Philadelphia’s offense would get practically no transition opportunities after free throws. Maurice Cheeks sat Drummond during one stretch of intentional fouling, and if Drummond can raise his free-throw percentage even slightly, Cheeks probably wouldn’t have to do that.

Brandon Jennings, PG 38 MIN | 7-16 FG | 3-3 FT | 6 REB | 12 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 5 TO | 20 PTS | +10

Jennings did a good job of getting the Pistons into transition, and he did a great job of setting them up for good shots once they were running. His handling of the halfcourt offense was a little dicier, but because he pushed the pace effectively, that didn’t comprise a large portion of his game. He also had a very heads up play trying to shoot a 3-pointer just before the 76ers intentionally fouled Drummond. Jennings didn’t quite get it off, but that play could be an effective counter to hack-a-Drummond. The key is getting upcourt quickly enough to get a decent shot before the intentional foul, just in case the foul isn’t called.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG 29 MIN | 4-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 10 PTS | +7

Caldwell-Pope ran the floor hard, made 2-of-5 3-pointers and defended pretty well. He wasn’t his best at any part of his game, but he was solid at all of them. Games like this, where he plays within himself and complements Detroit’s better players, justify his starting spot.

Tony Mitchell, PF 3 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -2

Mitchell had a nice block and baited (watched?) a Philadelphia transition miss in a mostly uneventful three minutes.

Josh Harrellson, PF 5 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 0 PTS | +9

Harrellson bothered the 76ers whenever they drove into the paint with him on the court. He also set an illegal screen, which was not only his only notable offensive play, but also wiped out his most-used offensive weapon.

Jonas Jerebko, PF 12 MIN | 1-3 FG | 3-4 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 5 PTS | -11

Jerebko was up-and-down all game. He had the ball stolen from him in the backcourt by Michael Carter-Williams, who made a quick layup. Then less than a minute later, Jerebko harassed Carter-Williams on an inbound to get a steal and layup of his own. Later, Jerebko made a nice cut then muffed the pass for what would have been a layup. His defense was also hit or miss, and his shot selection was fine, but one negative play stands out. Jerebko missed a 3-pointer, and while he watched the shot, Evan Turner beat him upcourt for an easy layup.

Luigi Datome, SF 3 MIN | 0-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -2

Datome worked hard enough on defense and on the glass to justify a rotation spot for a dead-eye shooter, but he also missed both his shot attempts. Really, these few-minute glimpses of Datome tell us next to nothing about him.

Kyle Singler, SF 16 MIN | 1-7 FG | 2-4 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 5 PTS | -2

Singler didn’t make much impact, though a couple garbage-time misses make his underwhelming shooting line look worse than it really was.

Peyton Siva, PG 7 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 0 PTS | -1

Siva applied excellent defensive pressure. The offense appeared to be rather basic when he ran it, even in the second quarter while played with other rotation players. On a related note, the offense was very ineffective when Siva directed it.

Rodney Stuckey, SG 32 MIN | 7-16 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 17 PTS | +11

Stuckey is an absolute bull. He uses his strength to get to the basket and create short mid-range attempts. This was far from his best performance of the season, but Stuckey’s style makes him consistently good when he’s engaged, and right now, he’s engaged. Also, Stuckey defends really hard after making mistakes.

Maurice Cheeks

A game after bungling Drummond’s minutes, Cheeks did much better. Sitting Drummond in the third quarter when the 76ers were intentionally fouling made sense, because several Detroit players were playing well offensively. There was no need to disrupt their rhythm and rely on Drummond’s free-throw shooting for scoring. Other nights, that decision might not be so easy, though. Also I wouldn’t have minded if Drummond chased his 20th rebound, but props to Cheeks for sitting the center late. A 30-20 game isn’t a “thing,” and a 31-19 game is just fine. The Pistons’ best player, but a flawed player, got 33 minutes in a resounding win. That’s enough.

66 Comments

  • Dec 2, 20137:13 am
    by Zdwtr

    Reply

    To me BJ deserves an A-. He sets the tone of playing fast help the pistons get off early to quick start. Not to mention couple assists alley oops for dre that helps him turn into a beast. BJ may not be the smartest PG but he’s trying his best. Judging from these last few games he’s a point guard that BK7 will never be in Detroit uniform. 

  • Dec 2, 20138:40 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Jennings is passing the ball better or just as well as any pg in the league especially when you consider the pistons lack of perimeter shooting, and Drummond actually was a force down low without the pick and roll lobs, games like this are eye openers 

    • Dec 2, 201310:24 am
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      “especially when you consider the pistons [sic] lack of perimeter shooting”

      How is that relevant? Assists count just as much for baskets in the paint as on the perimeter.

      • Dec 2, 201311:08 am
        by Turns

        Reply

        Tim – it’s relevant because passing lanes are so much bigger when there is  proper floor spacing.  Better perimeter shooting creates more space and bigger passing lanes.  It’s really not that advanced.

      • Dec 2, 201311:29 am
        by jamesjones_det

        Reply

        I think it’s relevant because the easy assist really doesn’t exist on this team.  There is no trailer or man coming hard of a screen to pass the ball to for an easy jumper.  Everything is down low picks with tight passes into the middle or fast breaks.
         
        I will agree that it’s not like he would be averaging 5 more assists a game if he had better shooters but the degree of difficulty on many of his passes would be lower and might lead to a higher A/TO ratio.  So in my opinion that aspect of it is relevant.

        • Dec 2, 201312:15 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I’d argue that the pick and roll leads to an awful lot of easy assist opportunities. Drummond and Smith are great finishers, and even Monroe is pretty decent at it. What’s more, feeds to Monroe or Smith in the block have pretty high chances of leading to assists. Guys can get assists even after the player receiving the pass puts it on the court and makes a few moves. I’d say there definitely are easy assists available on this team.
           
          As for the assist to turnover ratio, that is pretty unlikely. People that actually study the stats have found that teammates do not have all that big of an impact on passing numbers. Changing teams mid season tends to have an impact, but other than that it seems that guys that are good at getting assists do so almost independently of their teammates. Good passers create the high percentage shots much more often than good shooting creates the assists. That’s why the guys that are good at getting assists tend to adjust to the players on their team and continue getting assists at a pretty similar rate regardless of the talent around them. So the odds are good that a team that is better shooting along the perimeter would not lead to his assists actually improving significantly.

          • Dec 2, 20136:45 pm
            by danny

            The lob will always be there if the point gets doubled.  On the contrary, if he doesn’t get doubled it’s really hard for him to kick out cause there are really no shooters.  Having shooters on the team helps open the floor and the passing lanes.  Look at CP3 no true spot up shooter last year and he got under 10 a game.  This year with a true shooter he is up to 11 with a higher shooting percentage himself. 

          • Dec 4, 20137:27 am
            by oats

            Last year the Clips had Butler shooting .388 on 3s. He is a spot up shooter. Last year they shot .358 as a team on 3s, as opposed to the .342 they are shooting now. It’s really hard to break 10 assists a game, even for someone like Chris Paul. Sometimes even the best PG in the world doesn’t hit that mark. That’s really all that was going on last year.
             
            This is pretty counter intuitive, There is a lot of evidence that says that outside shooting does wonders for opening things up for a team offense. It makes it easier to score inside the paint, and similarly scoring in the paint opens things up for easy shots along the perimeter. Here’s the thing, there is no real evidence that it has much of an effect on any particular player’s assist totals. My best guess is that the extra assists tend to get spread out amongst several players and don’t result in a big jump for any single player. That would make sense considering the most common way to hit those spot up shooters is to make the extra pass. A team with poor spacing is instead reliant on the PG to make plays for them. That would be a reasonable explanation for why quality of teammates seems to have such a small effect on a PG’s assist totals. Maybe one is a little trickier than the other, but the evidence says that most every decent PG manages to maintain steady production practically irregardless of the players around them.

      • Dec 2, 20132:02 pm
        by TheBigS

        Reply

        Yes an assist to a shooter counts the same as an assist to a big man on the inside but it is so much easier to pass to an open man behind the three point line than to thread the needle inside between multiple mountain sized men. I dont think that his numbers would be on par with CP3, who is the best PG in the NBA right now, but they could possibly be much higher

        • Dec 2, 20133:10 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          And it’s so much easier to make a shot from down low than from way out on the perimeter. And when the ball gets to that player in the paint, it is so much more likely that he’ll shoot it right away compared to the guy outside who often makes another pass to get a better look.

          If you can show me evidence that PGs on teams with lots of outside shooters rack up assists faster than ones on teams with lots of interior behemoths, I’d love to look at it. Otherwise, this is just speculation with reasonable potential explanations for why you’d be right or wrong.

        • Dec 2, 20133:23 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          How many open looks does Jennings create for the shooters and they aren’t making them? I’m not saying Jennings is better than Paul but he is playing at a high level like Paul as far as passing the ball

          • Dec 2, 20133:45 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            Jennings creates open looks for bad shooters? Opposing teams deliberately give up open looks to those guys and sometimes Jennings passes them the ball.

            Look, Jennings passes a fair amount. That’s how he gets the gaudy assist totals. That and his incredibly high usage. But he isn’t exactly a savant at bending the defense. He creates shots for himself; but for others, he pretty much just gives them the ball and they manufacture their own opportunities.

          • Dec 2, 201310:20 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Tim that makes no sense….but even if it did make sense it proves my point…he is averaging 8 plus ast in predictable offense with limited floor spacing shooters…

          • Dec 3, 201312:59 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            How does it not make sense? Jennings gets lots of assists because he has the ball in his hands a lot and because he is one of the better shooters on the team (very sad, I know) so opponents will let him pass instead of shoot (this is also part of why he shoots such a low percentage).

            The offense is predictable, but since when has that lowered assist totals? You get just as many assists for predictable buckets as unpredictable ones.

            There are PGs with better and worse situations for getting assists (see my response to Max below), but overall, Jennings has a relatively favorable situation for getting stats because he touches the ball so much. Only 23 players (12 PGs) have a higher usage than Jennings and that’s because most of them are stars–who should be touching the ball a lot because they’re really, really good. Only 2 players in the league (Gay and Walker) have higher usages and accomplish less per possession. And just 3 more of them aren’t stars (Teague, Thomas, Sessions).

      • Dec 2, 201310:36 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Why is it a dichotomy?  
        Ideally, a team should be balanced which allows the point guard to rack up assists in general all over the court.   If the team doesn’t have an inside game or doesn’t have shooting than the defense has an easier time stopping a team from getting easy shots or open looks if the team is good inside or on the perimeter respectively while if the team is balanced than a point guard can really slice teams up.  
        Also, on behalf of the shooting side of things; a big part of today’s game is drive and kick which isn’t something even Chris Paul or LeBron James could exploit very well if they were on Detroit.  That should tell you a lot about these Pistons.  Certainly Jennings could benefit from drive and kick options.  

        • Dec 3, 201312:44 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          Yes, a PG will get the most assists on a team filled with players who are fantastic at making shots from all sorts of different areas and with no other fantastic ball handlers to run the ball through. But nobody plays on a team like that.

          It is not a dichotomy, but fantastic players down low and fantastic perimeter players don’t usually go together on the same team because the salary cap only allows a team to have so many fantastic players.

          It’s true that Jennigns is at a situational disadvantage for getting drive and kick assists. But he is at an advantage for getting assists via lobs or just dumping the ball into the post.

    • Dec 2, 201310:45 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Chris Paul is averaging 12.1 assists a game, while Brandon Jennings is averaging 8.4 a game. Jennings assists on an impressive 37.5% of his teammates field goals while on the court, but Paul is assisting on an incredible 54.7% of his teammates field goals. It is awfully impressive the way that Jennings is racking up assists, and yet this this isn’t close. Chris Paul is far and away the best passer in the league right now. I think that is obvious to anyone watching, but the stats also back it up.

      • Dec 2, 20131:34 pm
        by Patti #1

        Reply

        Okay…everybody agrees that Chris Paul is league leading point guard.  

  • Dec 2, 20138:47 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Drummond runs like a 280lbs gazelle. The last guy that was 7ft close to his size that could run a jump like him was David Robinson. If Dre can cut his physique like the Admiral did he’ll be a scary matchup for anyone that has to defend him.

    • Dec 2, 201310:25 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Drummond actually is listed at 6’10″. He measured 6’9.75″ without shoes at the combine, so he seems to be one of the few players who doesn’t use his height in shoes as his measurement. Still, he’s all of .75″ taller than Dwight Howard without shoes, so he needs to be mentioned in guys that are similar size and athleticism. Robinson is actually taller and significantly smaller than Dre, so Howard is probably the closest comparison in terms of size and athleticism that I can come up with.
       
      The other obvious comparison would be to a young Shaq, who is actually quite a bit taller than Dre at 7’1″ without shoes and weighing in at 303 pounds. It’s still a more logical comparison than Robinson, a 7’1″ and 235 pound center. People seem to forget just how athletic Shaq used to be. He didn’t run at the combine, but his 36″ max vertical is better than Drummond’s 33.5″ max vertical. You can’t talk about big and athletic guys without mentioning the guy who has the highest max vertical reach in NBA history. I guess Shaq could be dropped from the comparison for being too big and athletic, but he was definitely after Robinson and before Dre so it is factually inaccurate to say that Robinson was the last player who was as tall and athletic as Drummond is.

      • Dec 2, 20136:50 pm
        by danny

        Reply

        Young shaq is a good comparison when comparing their foot work.  People do not realize how incredibly nimble both of these two are.  He reminds me of a bigger and stronger Hakeem.  Though keem was quicker and smarter, they have the ability to guard almost everyone.  

        • Dec 2, 201310:45 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Kemp always seems to come to my mind as a comparison to Drummond.   Robinson, Hakeem and Shaq had much more refined post games than Drummond and while Kemp developed into a good shooter; early on he was a raw athlete who got lots of dunks, garbage plays and plays where he caught the ball and managed to move quickly.  Robinson and Hakeem were also not nearly as large as Drummond.

      • Dec 3, 20136:56 am
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Ahh yes young Shaq is a great comparison. Its hard to remember him being under 300lbs but yeah I totally agree. Speaking of you Shaq do you remember this commercial? I reckon it beats anything advertised atm http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=legoOEXvu9w

        • Dec 3, 20131:10 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          Young Drummond would have to nearly double his FT% to reach young Shaq levels.

      • Dec 3, 20133:59 pm
        by Ottawa16

        Reply

        Can we stop with the Drummond 6-9 to 6-10 in height. Greg is 6’11 so Drummond is …See link. http://www.nbaramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Monroe+Drummond.jpg

  • Dec 2, 201310:03 am
    by Brigs

    Reply

    Was at the game yesterday and boy did i pick the right game to go to.the whole team played great but Drummond was even better, but let’s not forget this was against the 76ers, a team that we should beat. I would like to see us go on a couple game winning streak and get back .500 

    • Dec 2, 20131:51 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Sigh. For all your enthusiasm (which really is charming) it’s always weird to read blanket comments like, “sweep the next three games and we’re back to .500!!” Especially when they seem to come from someone who hasn’t looked at or paid attention to the schedule (Miami is up next. Perhaps you’ve heard of them). The overall taste left in my mouth is that this person just wants to wave the flag and hope for the best rather than form any independent opinions on the team, what’s going right, what’s going wrong.
       
      Right now, wins and losses are of the utmost irrelevance compared to where this team is going and the decisions that have to be made about how it’s constructed. Once the team is more or less a finished product with an identity and a track record, then it makes sense to start looking at wins and losses and stat making progress. It just strikes me as such a loser’s mentality to get jazzed about a win over the Sixers and act like THIS could be the springboard that finally launches this team back to relevance. We’ve won just under 30 games every year for the past four years, and none of those wins have been this springboard. You’d think someone would have learned by now.
       
      I guess some people are just along for the ride, but this ship has been running crashing into icebergs consistently for half a decade, and the captain clearly has a death wish. I just don’t get it.

      • Dec 2, 20132:49 pm
        by MIKEYDE248

        Reply

        Can’t you just let a fan enjoy a good game by the Pistons?
        You sound like the guy who unfriended Patrick Hayes for saying what a good time he had at the Palace while talking about the foul mouthed guys next to him.

        • Dec 2, 20133:16 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          I guess I can’t. But if every fan was like this guy, the Palace would be full every night and nothing would ever get done around here. I apologize for getting frustrated at fans who think it doesn’t matter how bad this team is or where it’s headed because GO PISTONS. I want my city to have a good basketball team, and the status quo is not working. Somebody has to get his hands dirty around here and I guess it’s ol’ Otis. Some day you’ll thank me.

          • Dec 2, 20137:44 pm
            by Jon

            right cause you’re influencing the pistons decision making process a whole lot with your 1000 word essay/comment on why monroe sucks on every article posted on this website

          • Dec 2, 201310:56 pm
            by Max

            @Jon – You’re thinking what I’m thinking.
            @Otis – Do you really think the Pistons are a democracy or something with the fans, media and blog writers  as voters?   You may be right but on a night when Drummond puts up a line that hasn’t been seen since Hakeem in 1986 then the fans have some right to hope Drummond can become a superstar who will make many problems go away by being transcendentally great.
            All that said, I think I’m on board that Monroe should be dealt but I don’t agree with you that it absolutely must be done by the deadline if there is no great deal on the table.   If I were Joe I would aggressively  pursue a trade but I wouldn’t make one until I found a superb one whether it takes until next season or not.  It’s unlikely, but not impossible, that such a deal could come at the end of the season in a sign and trade and failing that; I still think teams would be willing to trade for whatever contract the Pistons have to match and that he may actually be easier to trade once he is locked up since teams would know exactly what they are getting long term.  Of course, it would best to trade him as soon as possible but the deal must conclude with an obviously improved Pistons’ team.  

          • Dec 2, 201311:32 pm
            by Otis

            @Jon: That’s not it, no. But this is a business and people vote with their dollars. I haven’t given the Pistons a nickel since the Chauncey trade (went to one away game that season with AI, but I don’t think that counts). If every fan was like me, things would have changed by now. Just trying to change minds with my thoughtful and biting analysis. If you don’t appreciate it, that’s your prerogative. You’re free to try and change my mind. Myself, I don’t appreciate people endorsing the status quo. Because the status quo is shit.

          • Dec 3, 201312:21 am
            by Jon

            @otis regardless you alone not paying for tickets is not going to change the front office’s minds’ therefore i don’t think you should expect any thank you notes from any piston fan for your constant negative views on all things pistons

          • Dec 3, 20139:21 am
            by gmehl

            Otis, i’m not 100% sure but are you the formerly known piston blogger Laser?? If I had to put a percentage on it I’d say that I’m 99.9% sure that its you :-)

          • Dec 3, 201312:05 pm
            by Otis

            @gmehl: LMAO nah he only wishes he was me. haha Man it’s been a while since I heard that name.

      • Dec 2, 201310:54 pm
        by Brigs

        Reply

        Well that’s great otis but if u actually read my comment instead of just looking over it really quick then u would see that I said I would like for them to go a couple game winning streak. I never said they would, although I wouldn’t be surprised if they beat Miami tommarow.. Lol ur a funny guy though, wave the flag and hope for the best. How does that make any sense when I pointed out that it was only a win against philly, a inferior team That we should beat. Yes I’m optimistic about them it’s better then trolling on here all day and being a pretentious asshole
         

        • Dec 2, 201311:33 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          In what way is optimism better than that?

          • Dec 3, 201312:00 am
            by Brigs

             if u like acting like an asshole then good for u but don’t try to make me look like an idiot when u obviously didn’t read my whole comment because you then just make urself look like an idiot.

          • Dec 4, 20132:09 pm
            by Otis

            That was mean, Brigs. I don’t like it when you’re mean.

        • Dec 3, 201312:22 am
          by Jon

          Reply

          optimism is better bc it allows for some sort of hope, something you clearly have none of

          • Dec 3, 201312:17 pm
            by Otis

            But what good is hoping for something that will NEVER materialize (for instance, building a legitimate contender around a power forward and two centers)? Better to voice concerns when your car is headed off a cliff than to sit quietly and hope the brake line suddenly un-cuts itself. This team is going absolutely nowhere with these major pieces. The more people see that and understand that this rotten lineup will never work, the better chance something changes. If people start flooding the Palace now, Gores is going to be more likely to stay the course than if it was empty.

  • Dec 2, 201310:54 am
    by Gordbrown

    Reply

    Just to put out a heretical thought. But maybe Dre’s great game here is directly related to the way he was used in the previous game. Is that then a “bungle?” Hopefullly, Monroe comes back off his limited minutes and puts up a career game Tuesday.

    • Dec 2, 20131:35 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      1) Monroe doesn’t do that. If Monroe was “the man” that’s what he’d do, but he isn’t so he won’t.
       
      2) Every time Monroe has a career game, one other Piston scores in double figures. Because Monroe doesn’t score in the flow of the offense. Not that he’s an unwilling passer, but in the half court the bulk of his participation is ISOs. I believe the Pistons have something like two wins when Greg goes off. One against the Bucks, one against the Spurs without Duncan or Manu. I’ve always felt this said something unflattering about him as a player.

      • Dec 2, 20133:05 pm
        by Tim Thielke

        Reply

        I don’t know what your standards are for “when Monroe goes off”, but let’s just assume a good game like 20/10 for now. Monroe has had 32 of those. Detroit has gone 15-17 over those games compared to 76-139 over all other games since drafting Monroe. So yeah, I’d say the Pistons do better when Monroe has big games.

        • Dec 2, 20133:25 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          20 and 10 isn’t “going off” by Moose’s standards.  That just a couple extra buckets and a rebound above average. I’m talking when he approaches or breaks 30. His supporters seem to think he’s the answer. “Feed the Moose,” right? Give him the ball every time and we should be unstoppable if you ask those people. So when he’s THE focal point, takes 20+ shots, etc. Those games. We do not do well in those games, and nobody else gets involved.
           
          When the day comes that Greg is even an “average” defender, I’ll loosen my standards for what constitutes good and bad performances from him. It’s not quite Ben Gordon syndrome where his defense is so weak that he needs to go OFF he’s dragging the team down, but it’s a little like that. He does enough other things on the floor, even if he isn’t scoring, to justify his playing time. But not to justify that millstone of a contract he’s got lined up. Not close. He’d need to be one of the league leaders in scoring, and that he ain’t. So I justifiably give him a hard time.

          • Dec 2, 20133:52 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            Monroe is a fairly consistent player so you may need to slightly relax your standards for “going off” if you want any data to work with. 20 and 10 is something he only does about 13% of the time, so those are certainly his better games.

            If you want to set the definition at hitting 28, you only have a sample size of 5 games and can’t draw any meaningful conclusions. If you set it at 24, the Pistons have a 9-10 record and my point still stands.

          • Dec 2, 20136:30 pm
            by Otis

            “Fairly” consistent? He’s the picture of consistency. 15 points and 8.5 rebounds with no defense whatsoever en route to 50+ losses. The fact that he’s only had 5 games in his whole career where he scored 28 is significant in and of itself, especially considering how much of his career he’s spent with the ball in his hands. I don’t set the “going off” standard at 24 points because of how badly he gets torched on defense. Offensive players need to do more to counteract the damage their man does, and Moose’s man always seems to look like Kareem Abdul Jabbar. If he was simply an average defender, 24 pts would constitute a big night.
             
            It’s also worth noting that in those five games, if memory serves me, we only beat the lowly Bucks and a severely shorthanded Spurs team. And nobody else was involved in the offense at all in any of them. If given the choice between handing him a max extension and letting him walk for absolutely nothing, I’d have some serious thinking to do. Even if you thought it was a fair value (and maybe it is if they’re going to play him at center, which anyone but the Pistons would), finding a trade that fits under the CBA could be a legitimate pain in the ass and require us to compromise a lot more than if we just moved his ass today. Trading Moose could be one of the easiest decision an NBA franchise faced in the past decade.

          • Dec 2, 201311:07 pm
            by Max

            @Otis   I really don’t feel like many big men play like the man in the NBA these days.  Last year, Brook Lopez led all centers in scoring and he didn’t even average 20 points.   Bigs just don’t score a lot in today’s NBA so while Monroe is a sub par defender; no one is looking like Kareem against him because no one is looking like Kareem anyway–and not on their best days either.  
            No, Monroe is not some transcendent star but he is one of the better scoring and passing bigs in the league and one of the better rebounders overall.    He’s also remarkably consistent and durable and still young with upside.   These are valuable attributes and you don’t have to insult him and his fans so vehemently.

          • Dec 3, 201312:15 am
            by Jacob

            My problem with Monroe is the he would rather whine about calls and cry to officials. Then just got get it. Step up and play hard, every play. He’s a good player, but he seems like a real cry baby on the floor always bitching at officials. Shut up and play hard.

  • Dec 2, 20131:29 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    “Monroe seemed a step slow on both ends of the court…”
     
    You don’t say! Interesting analysis. Did he also “seem” rather tall? “Seemed to have a beard?” “Seemed” to be wearing the number ten on his jersey?”
     
    Unless, of course, you mean slow by his standards. In which case, yikes.

  • Dec 2, 20131:55 pm
    by Derek AKA Redeemed

    Reply

    “At least Monroe played mostly with himself prior to his ejection.”
    He played with himself? lol.
    Monroe didn’t have it going from the field (1-6) but he was drawing fouls and boarding pretty well (10 rebounds in 26 minutes).  Moose was on his way to respectable numbers.  Part of his frustration was the way more athletic guys were climbing on his back and getting away with it. 
    He should have actually been on the line more than he than his modest number trips.  I think a C would have been a more accurate rating but whatever.  We won so I’m cool.
     

    • Dec 2, 20133:06 pm
      by Desolation Row

      Reply

      I think he meant ‘within himself’. Typo. Though Dan does seem to have less of those than many of the other writers on this blog. 

    • Dec 2, 20133:07 pm
      by Desolation Row

      Reply

      But I found that hilarious too

      • Dec 2, 20138:23 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Would’ve been funnier if he wrote ‘played mostly with himself prior to his ejaculation’
        Whoops I went too far didn’t I??

    • Dec 4, 20135:29 am
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Thanks, fixed

  • Dec 2, 20138:19 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Hey did anyone catch the interview during the 3rd quarter with the kids that were at the game supporting Monroe. The reporter asked a couple of the kids what Greg had taught them and then he ends up getting tossed early in the 4th. In mooses defence he had no calls go his way all night but complaining like he has this season is starting to get a little old. I like everyone else am over his ‘and 1′ cry on every shot he takes. I hope he realises to get an ‘and 1′ he needs to make his shot first. 

    • Dec 2, 201311:57 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Moose stomps his way inside and flings up prayers. That’s his offense. He’s so close that half of them go in, but his percentage is understandably bad compared to more athletic, coordinated guys who finish stronger. He’ll never get the calls he wants at that rate. And he’ll get even fewer calls shouting “And 1″ every time. God, he’d look so good in any of the 29 other jerseys…

      • Dec 3, 20134:48 am
        by Derek

        Reply

        Moose isn’t uncoordinated.  He’s actually a very skilled big with polished post moves, really good footwork, and a knack for beating guys off the dribble.  Unfortunately those that footwork seems to leave him on defense. 
        He lumbers out after guys without a plan or a clue setting himself up to get beat.  On defense the guy needs to stay focused, he isn’t Stoudemire bad on D but there’s definitely room for concern and improvement.
        I was really disappointed in the loss of composure he showed against Philly.  Guys were bumping him and jumping over him and throwing his shot off.  So what, live with it and adjust.  He needs to stop going for the obvious bread and butter inside game and shoot that shoulder 15 footer.  His inside shots are starting to look like rotation-less bricks.  Stop lobbing it in the air and get a good shot. 
        Moose is better than what he’s shown over the last handful of games.  I expect better from him.

        • Dec 3, 201312:12 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          You’re joking, right? He gets it poked away half the time because he’s clumsy and clunky. And he may beat guys off the dribble once in a while when they’re napping and not expecting it, but I wouldn’t say he has a “knack” for it. I don’t think you can do something once every two or three games and say you have a “knack” for it. He’s skilled, but definitely not polished. If he were polished he would make a better percentage of his point blank shots. It’s worth noting that I’m hard on the guy because when I look at his stupid face all I can see is that $60 million dollar mistake waiting just around the corner. I acknowledge that he is a good player, but you’re giving him too much credit. His inside shots have always looked wild and sloppy. He’s a lot of things, but polished isn’t one of them.

          • Dec 3, 20131:05 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            “He gets it poked away half the time”

            No, he doesn’t. He gets it poked away far too often; but if you are going to make an argument, use facts, not hyperbole.

            His inside shots look wild and sloppy because he takes so many of them. Nobody can generate that many clean looks from 2 feet away. He gets as many of those as he can, but then he also takes less clean looks. And that’s a good thing because even when all that’s available for him is a wild shot from right under the basket, that’s usually a better percentage look than anyone else on the team will get that possession.

          • Dec 3, 20132:58 pm
            by Derek AKA Redeemed

            @Otis
            I wasn’t joking.  His offensive footwork is really good.  Just to be clear, I’m talking about his spin moves, drop steps, and up and under moves.  Stuff like that.  He’s a very good in the post.  In some ways he’s like Zach Randolph when it comes to his post moves.
            The knock on Moose down low is he gets jostled around and thrown off his shot.  It would help him greatly to bulk up, but do so not at the expense of his quickness.  Like Tim says above, his close wild shots are high percentage rebound-able shots. 

          • Dec 3, 20132:59 pm
            by DetroitP

            Otis we get it, you hate Moose and are clueless calling him nonathletic.  I feel you saying he might not fit with this team and the way were going, but you act like this guy is Booker off the Wiz.  your clueless man straight clueless

          • Dec 3, 20133:30 pm
            by Otis

            @Tim: Nothing wrong with hyperbole. It’s not like he gets it poked away once in a while. It’s a regular occurrence. If I said he got it poked away “all the time” it would be an appropriate figure of speech, yet sound like it happens 100% of the time instead of just “way too much.” So rather than nitpick, if we both agree it happens with alarming regularity, best to just let that one go. And the frequency of his shots has nothing to do with what kind of finisher he is. If he had a pretty sky hook, he’d use that. If he could get off the floor, he’d dunk. His moves are sloppy because all he can do is get close and hoist it up on the rim. I can’t stress enough that when I see his face with those sleepy eyes, all I can think about is that looming extension and the fact that we have until February to get full value for him. So you’ll have to forgive my harsh but fair analysis of him.
             
            @Derek: I don’t disagree. His footwork certainly isn’t bad. I think he’s rather predictable, and his up and under moves seem to get blocked and poked away far too often. But he’s not a slouch in the low post. I like him there a HELL of a lot better than wasting everyone’s time pretending he’s a sensible option at the elbow. I just think his days here were numbered the second we drafted Dre, and I’m all out of patience. I think we can get those kinds of close looks out of Smith and Drummond without a precipitous drop-off in efficiency. Certainly not to the tune of $60 million.
             
            @DetroitP: I’m a lot of things, but clueless ain’t one of them. Keep sipping that Kool-Aid, brotha. It must be mighty sweet.

          • Dec 4, 20136:50 am
            by Derek AKA Redeemed

            @Otis I disagree with the notion that Moose is predictable.  He usually presents multiple counter moves to his initial moves around the basket.  This year his moves on the box have been far better than past years.  Moose is actually tricking guys and losing them completely on his moves which has resulted in several bailout fouls.
             
            His numbers would look better if the refs didn’t swallow the whistle on some of the plays where he gets knocked around.  If Moose is going take the next step in his development and make it to the upper tier of young bigs, he’s got to stick the 15 ft elbow jumper.  I think he can do it Otis, but we’ll see.
             
            Great win last night against the Heat.  Did you see Moose get that two hand dunk with Lebron trying to chase him down?

  • Dec 2, 20139:22 pm
    by grizz3741

    Reply

    Great analysis again Dan .. I only say this because I only heard some nitpicking here .. the whole staff’s posts are  quite enjoyable to read .. No I am not a brown noser because Dan knows better than anyone I have strongly ridiculed his posts here at times .. like any good troll ..

  • Dec 3, 20134:09 pm
    by Ottawa16

    Reply

    Can we stop with the Drummond 6-9 to 6-10 in height. Greg is 6’11 so Drummond is …See link. http://www.nbaramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Monroe+Drummond.jpg

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