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3-on-3: Joe Dumars’ New Year’s Resolution

Modeled after ESPN’s 5-on-5, three of us will answer three questions about a Pistons-related topic. Please add your responses in the comments.

1. With holidays upon us, what should Joe Dumars set as his New Year’s Resolution?

Dan Feldman: Start building a championship-caliber core around Andre Drummond. Dumars has gone for the short-term fix, shedding a first-round pick — a very valuable commodity — just to rid Detroit of Ben Gordon‘s contract a single year early. Then, Dumars used that cap space on Josh Smith, the best player he could get at the time, but someone whose contract might become burdensome down the road. Drummond is a special talent, and he’ll be hitting his prime in a few years. The Pistons should maximize those seasons rather than squandering resources for marginal upgrades now.

Patrick Hayes: No sacred cows?* I don’t really know. Joe Dumars has had a tendency in recent years to think much more highly of his roster than anyone rightfully should. And those past few teams that he talked up positively before seasons started and quickly shifted blame to coaches when they performed predictably poorly weren’t even close to as good as the teams he has now. Now he has a roster that is performing at least mediocrely and looks to be a lock for the playoffs. So … mission accomplished? Most who cover the team seem to agree that Dumars’ job security is dependent on the Pistons getting into the playoffs. Thanks to the East’s dreadfulness, he’s going to achieve that goal. The roster is certainly nowhere close to a finished product that can contend with the league’s elite in the postseason. If just getting there is the goal, there’s little incentive to do anything but watch the team middle its way into the playoffs. Then, with that job securing imperative out of the way, perhaps Dumars can be more comfortable addressing the roster in the offseason.

* Note: Drummond is totally a sacred cow, obvs.

Brady Fredericksen: Make the playoffs. It’s been thought that this could be a playoffs-or-bust season for Dumars, and considering the Grinch-like tendencies (i.e., making basketball terrible), he’s probably cooked if this team doesn’t make the playoffs. The Pistons’ success helps more than just Dumars’ job, too. He needs to hope for the best possible record out of this team so the draft pick they’ll be losing to Charlotte is as low in the first round as possible.

2. Who can help him achieve that as quickly as possible?

Dan Feldman: Tom Gores. Dumars went for the quick fix, because Gores wanted it and everything that came with it. And Gores got his wish. Detroit will probably make the playoffs, adding at least two home games worth of playoff revenue. The Pistons’ attendance is up from where it was the last two seasons, but it still ranks just 26th in the NBA. Upgrading from bad to mediocre helps draw a few extra fans, but the difference is minor. Want big gains? Sacrifice the short term for the long term if necessary.

Patrick Hayes: Andre Drummond. He’s already an All-Star-worthy big man, game-changing defensive presence and one of the most exciting young players in the league. He’s also still very young and has never been asked to shoulder this type of burden — best player on a playoff team — before. He underachieved on a UConn team that underachieved and drastically exceeded expectations as a rookie in way too minor a role last season. If he can maintain this level of production throughout the season, the Pistons will cruise into the playoffs and, depending on how the anyone’s guess seeding in the anyone’s guess 3-8 spots plays out, they could even have home court and a chance to win a first round series, something even the most optimistic of Pistons fans wouldn’t have predicted prior to the season.

Brady Fredericksen: Maurice Cheeks. The pieces are definitely there for the Pistons to make the playoffs and give somebody a competitive series; it’s just a matter of Cheeks putting things fully together by then. These guys show flashes of good, great, terrible and bad — they’re well-rounded. But if this team is going to maximize it’s talent/chances, Cheeks needs to be the guy to do it.

3. How can Dumars make his fictional resolution happen?

Dan Feldman: Supporting Maurice Cheeks. Dumars has typically taken a hands-off approach with coaches, but for Dumars to have the leeway to build long-term, the Pistons must make the playoffs this season. That means Dumars should do everything in his power — from advising on strategy to easing tension with players — to give Cheeks the best chance of taking Detroit to the postseason.

Patrick Hayes: Well, making the playoffs is probably going to happen regardless of whether Dumars does anything more or not. And simply because that seems to be enough to satisfy Tom Gores’ demands for now, I think any kind of major move involving any key rotation member is probably remote at best. So with a move like that likely off the table, why not make a minor move to net a future asset? They have Charlie Villanueva’s salary to absorb a long-term dead weight contract from a team looking to cut salary. If they could extract a future first round pick or a couple of second round picks to do take on some salary obligations, that’s probably worth it, since they’re probably losing their first rounder in 2014. Or maybe they could use bit players who have been reliable at times in the past like Will Bynum or Jonas Jerebko to pick up a shooter languishing on someone else’s bench.

Brady Fredericksen: Trade for LeBron, Chris Paul or Kevin Durant? I kid, I kid, but he can try to find that one piece. Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to what exactly that piece is, but there’s definitely ways to improve this product. Could it be a Rajon Rondo trade? Could it be as simple as skimming that “hidden” trade market for a wing player that we might not know is on the market? Whatever it is, there are moves to be made.


  • Dec 26, 201310:38 pm
    by jacob


    I still think a Rondo and Green for Monroe and Jennings, makes sense.

    • Dec 27, 201312:19 am
      by gmehl


      Yeah I’m sure Boston fans will lo

    • Dec 27, 201312:22 am
      by gmehl


      Yeah I’m sure Boston fans will love that deal. I know piston fans will rejoice but the reality is Ainge would laugh his ass off right after he hangs up on Dumars. 

    • Dec 27, 201311:16 am
      by stonesfan


      Get green for monroe what does that do? Decrease in our REB, both defensive and offensive. Makes the paint more vulnerable, giving opposing coaches the opportunity to open the playbook more, no under the neath passes from moose to smoove or drummond for easy buckets, leading to spreading the floor more efficiently. Rondo isnt even a forsure  to comeback the way he was (d Rose guys, its been proven both ways I know but still) BJ isnt horrible, hes been coming along, billups needed to come a;ong a bit too when he came to detroit. our bench is what needs improving. I know moose is vulnerable to getting ripped but its nice to see smoove n dre run down the court after and get a nice block, or see BJ get a nice steal like the one on LBJ in miami (for the win). So to me, trading for green who is smaller and rondo (who is good, but BJ is a better scorer (note i did not say better shooter)). The bench needs help, starting lineup is fine. 

      • Dec 27, 201312:26 pm
        by KarthikS


        You’re right – I’ve definitely been pleased the way BJ has improved through the season, especially as a facilitator.  That being said, if Rondo appears to be healthy and you have the change to get him (even if that means losing Monroe and Jennings), you do that trade 100 times out of 100.  People forget – but Rondo went toe to toe with LBJ in the 2012 ECF that they almost pulled out – when he’s right, he’s a top 10 player / top 3 pg in the league.

  • Dec 27, 201312:20 am
    by Otis


    This is interesting because of how little overlap there is between Joe’s goals and what’s best for the team. I mean, barring a miracle that hasn’t happened in the last five years and doesn’t seem to be on the horizon, Joe has been and continues to be the last person anyone should trust to make ANY decisions that relate to this franchise. I mean, he’s driven us straight to hell and been spared only by incredible luck in the lottery and a widespread tankfest that’s so bad it’s got the league talking about eliminating the lottery. I mean, if I was one of those people who likes to denigrate the NBA I’d be having a field day. It’s truly disgraceful. So this 3-on-3 should have two branches: What’s in Joe’s best interest, and what’s in the team’s best interest. And never the twain shall meet.
    Now I’m willing to believe that Joe genuinely thinks he’s the best man for the job, in a deluded, narcissistic mental illness sort of way. I truly think it’s possible he’s that much of a sociopath. So looking at him in the most generous light, he probably thinks we’re on a linear path towards glory. But almost everything that’s gotten us where he thinks we’re going has been out of his control. If the stars didn’t align so that top talent fell right into his lap in the draft, he’d probably be gone by now. God knows there’s nothing on this roster outside of Rodney Stuckey that represents any kind of carry-over from the glory days. Good management would have taken some of those assets from the elite team we once were and had something to show for it, but not Joe. Furthermore, if the East were simply as bad as we’re used to we’d be somewhere between an 8-10 seed right now, so he’d be very much on the hot seat. So if I were Joe and was only interested in getting a contract extension so I could continue steering this ship absolutely nowhere, I’d just keep on doing jack shit and let the futility of the East do all my work for me.
    That said, if he was actually interested in fixing the team for the long run and not just saving his job so he can continue bumbling along, the last thing he should ever do is sit on this roster. There is probably only one kind of move he could execute that would satisfy everyone’s goals: Trading Monroe and Stuckey together or separately for at least one perimeter player who represents a clear upgrade. I’m not sure it would be easy, it might have to involve multiple teams, but that’s the only way to satisfy Joe’s goals (which are all purely selfish), Gores’ goals (which are a mixture selfish and in the best interest of the team) and the fans’ goals (and of course we should all be hoping for the best long-term solutions, but some of us just want the instant gratification of a meaningless playoff appearance). Get some perimeter shooting and D who upgrade the team now and are under control. Personally, I’m a patient type, believe it or not. I’d gladly take a step or three backwards in terms of collecting some picks and prospects to build on. I’d love to see it, and it would be a lot less “fussy” to work out, because we don’t have the kinds of assets who are likely to be traded for immediate upgrades. So yeah, get used to this. Probably going to be no trades and four more years of this rudderless mess. This is basically the team you’re probably going to be watching for a very, very long time.
    I really wish Tom Gores understood more about the thing he invested so much money in, but I am genuinely afraid he might be the dimmest self-made billionaire in the world.

    • Dec 27, 20138:12 am
      by Turns


      How many GM’s have constructed a championship team Otis?  Are you honestly trying to sit here and act like you know more about basketball than Joe Dumars?  That you can put together a team better than somebody that orchestrated a team to 7 straight conference championships?  You should start applying for GM jobs and you can reference your work on this site in your resume.

      • Dec 27, 201310:17 am
        by Huddy


        I spend a lot of time questioning Otis’ views, but if having an nba resume makes you immune to criticism on a site like this than there aren’t any conversations to be had.  No ones a Gm or player here and opinions are always going to come without an nba resume.  Otis is over the top with just how far into the ground he smashes Dumars and how much he seems to be assured that he know exactly what Joe is thinking, but I’m not one to support trusting in Dumars because he has done it before.  Even good coaches or GMs can need changes of scenery or new situations, which may or may not be the case with Dumars.  Don’t rely too much on his resume though or Atleast if you are you will be disappointed with everyones opinion on here because no one has real credibility.

        • Dec 27, 201312:47 pm
          by Otis


          Thanks, Huddy. I’m sick of these turkeys who think just because he was successful at his job A FULL DECADE AGO he’s infallible. His track record speaks for himself. He made a few excellent moves A FULL DECADE AGO and has been atrocious ever since. We’ve seen his recent moves and how incompetent he is. We can judge for ourselves. We don’t have to be hypnotized by one completely irrelevant championship and a run of success that ended with a thud more than five years ago.
          My rebuttal for these mindless Dumars drones is this: How many GMs have taken an elite championship caliber roster and converted all those assets into literally nothing? Heck, if you’re being strict about where all the assets and liabilities went, the only things “left over” from the glory days are Rodney Stuckey (who, in all likelihood, stays on the roster just through this season to make Joe look good by adding as many instant wins as possible, then signs elsewhere in free agency) and a glaring debt of this year’s first round pick (which was a result of the terrible Ben Gordon trade, who was signed with the cap space the Chauncey trade afforded us). Once Stuckey walks in free agency, there is literally nothing left on the roster to show for how good Joe was ten years ago. When has that ever happened? Chauncey, Dyess, Afflflo, Amir and Tayshaun were all salary dumped. Sheed and Big Ben walked in free agency (soon t be followed by Stuckey). Rip was given an absolutely ludicrous and unnecessary contract extension and bought out. And the guys we brought here with that 2009 cap space have all gone completely sour. Wilcox never did anything and is out of the league, Charlie is useless, and Gordon cost us a precious pick to unload. I would wager that the abject failure to convert any of our assets into useful pieces and dismantling an elite team with literally nothing on the roster to show for it is a MUCH rarer feat than building a team that wins one championship.
          And you may think I’m harsh in my assessment of Joe, but he is 100% committed to looking as good as humanly possible RIGHT NOW rather than building a formula for sustained success. This has been proven year after year where we fell short of the playoffs over and over, never really looking like we were truly in the race, and he was never once a seller at the deadline. Not once. No concessions that it just wasn’t our year. Every team concedes once in a while that it’s not their year and makes a move so they can come back stronger next year, but not us. I don’t know if it’s stubbornness or arrogance or what, but the wrong man has been in charge. I think it’s very generous of me to even give him the benefit of the doubt that he has a self-righteous mental illness and actually thinks he’s doing the right things for the team. Even that is a stretch, because I genuinely wonder how he lives with himself sometimes. If he loves this team it should GALL him to see what he’s done with it, and he should be scrambling to tear it from the wreckage. But instead, after his second free agent spending spree in four years, we languish under 500 with no signs of change on the horizon.

          • Dec 27, 20132:26 pm
            by apa8ren9

            @ Otis, Dude, you contradict yourself at every turn when it comes to Dumars.  You are so much more coherent when you keep it to basket ball.  We know who you are talking about.  Are you placing so much value in the pick our GM traded away because he wont get “lucky” one more time?  Or were you of the opinion that he doesnt know what he is doing? You have to pick a side.  The Pistons are not in the race for a championship.  No one said we were.   The Pistons, Joe Dumars and Tom Gores have clearly stated what their goals and intent for this season was.  You dont have to agree with it but the incessant whining cause you arent getting your way is ridiculous.   If the boss wants playoffs then you give him playoffs. You’ve upgraded your talent and you have a GLARING weakness at the SG and SF position.  Wait for your next opportunity to upgrade.  Kicking and screaming about it everyday is what a child does. 

          • Dec 27, 20132:45 pm
            by Otis

            Contradict myself?? I place value on the pick because this team was LIVING in the lottery when he traded it, and it was too valuable an asset to sacrifice for the sake of getting out of ONE year of Ben Gordon’s contract. Joe certainly doesn’t know what he’s doing, and nothing I’ve ever EVER said here contradicts that. The organization, with the knowledge that it’s not very close to a championship, should never have given up any sort of #1 pick in the rebuilding process. Due to Joe’s incompetence, the only thing that kept this team from sinking into the ocean has been our draft picks. That was a foolish trade, it only served to make Joe’s mistake (Gordon) go away, and obviously this team is not far enough along to have sacrificed a #1 pick. We’re still languishing under 500. Where is the contradiction??
            The boss might want the playoffs, which I’ve acknowledged, but the boss doesn’t necessarily know what’s good for him. The fact that Joe Dumars is still in charge speaks volumes about how lost Tom Gores is as an owner. Also, for all your criticism of me you don’t seem to understand anything about where this team is in terms of future “opportunities” to add a SG and a SF. This team is going to be in an awful position come July as long as they stay the course. I understand that this franchise’s incompetence goes all the way up to ownership, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it, and I’m free to point out any irony I see in a question regarding what Joe “should” do, because neither Joe nor Gores is motivated by what’s actually best for the team.

          • Dec 27, 20133:51 pm
            by apa8ren9

            Just why is it so difficult to wait for an opportunity instead of panicking and making a stupid trade now? That is the very thing that you are accusing Dumars of doing before he does it?  Whether you liked the Ben Gordon trade or not it allowed you to sign Josh Smith.   You are not in danger financially no matter the way you build your team with paying Monroe or taking on another bad contract to get someone good. Should your intentions be obvious to all of the other incredibly SMART GM’s in the league that havent won championships so they can rip you off?  Point is we havent fallen into the ocean.  You werent going to be happy no matter what they did which is the contradiction.  Just what is it in the NBA business climate that would keep opportunities away if you wait till the off season? I dont care if he makes moves at the deadline or the offseason as long as it makes the team better.  What blockbusters are going to happen in February that will lock the Pistons out from improving in July?  If you have a crystal ball Id love to know what will happen.  Your assertion to February and July simply doesnt add up.   We dont know what is going to happen.  There are no guarantees.  You continue to imply that its guaranteed the Pistons will Fail after February.  I disagree.  Monroe is restricted. Charlie and Stuckey are bums in your eyes so whats the harm in them leaving?
            Pistons will have trade options,  cap space and internal growth to keep you going forward.  Heaven forbid you also have the option of trading a future future draft pick if that nets you the SG/SF you need?  All the options are there whether its Feb or July. 

          • Dec 27, 20134:24 pm
            by Otis

            Waiting for an opportunity is alright if you’re in decent shape right now. This team is hovering below 500 and has been for the entire season, so that’s not “good” shape. That’s bad shape. It could also be prudent if you either have completely murky, uncertain waters ahead OR a clear window ahead where moves are likely to materialize. Neither of those is true of our situation at the moment. Most of our key pieces are locked up for a few years, and there are very important decisions just ahead on the horizon.
            You failed to identify a contradiction, and there are things that Joe could do that would make me very happy. Hell, I’ve gone on record as saying that I would give Joe a four year extension if it gave him the comfort zone he needed to trade Greg and Rodney at the deadline rather than stand pat. This team is VERY close to something worth getting excited about, but the trade(s) need(s) to happen. You pull this trigger NOW because we’ve seen enough to know this team’s strengths, weaknesses, who’s expendable, etc. The future is laid out right in front of us, and if we stand pat through February we are going to severely limit how much we can improve going forward.
            Here’s the opportunities for the tenth time that you miss by waiting until July: 1) You have far less flexibility with Monroe. All it takes is ONE team under the cap (PHX perhaps) to offer him a max contract, and you suddenly are either letting him go for nothing or overpaying him to languish in a system where he’s the highest paid player on the team and DOES NOT FIT. 2) You have basically no flexibility at all when it comes to Stuckey. He is unrestricted, and if this team intends on beefing up our perimeter shooting, they’ll pretty much have no choice but to let him go for nothing. These are bad options. The second the calendar turns to July, you’ve set this team several giant size steps backwards before you can start addressing problems that exist NOW. You’re not operating at the same level, or you’d understand these things.
            And regardless of my personal feelings towards Stuckey, he is an ASSET. But that asset means jack shit the second it’s July. I’d rather slit my wrists than keep him around, but that doesn’t mean we can’t GET SOMETHING for him. It’s lunacy. Every asset this team has just gets a ludicrous contract extension or walks in free agency. That’s why we’re going nowhere. You can’t operate a basketball franchise like this. And forget giving away future picks. It’ll be a completely uncertain, distant (2016 at the earliest) pick and will at best be a sweetener, not the centerpiece of any trade. You, my friend, are living in a dream world. And I’m terrified that Gores understands how assets and timing work in this game as poorly as you do.

    • Dec 27, 20132:48 pm
      by Tim Thielke


      You’re right about this one, Otis (except that I believe Joe is principled enough to try to do what’s in the Pistons’ best interest over saving his own job). And you missed one of the biggest points, which is that Dumars never demonstrated any sort of plan.

      His track record on individual moves are a mixed bag. I would maintain that the fact that there were more good ones a decade a go and more poor ones of late is just a fluke caused by the fact that we only have one or two meaningful moves most years to analyze. But the NBA rewards going all-in on a plan, whether it be for the present or future.

      During 05-08, I hated that Dumars refused to mortgage the future for the present (I am very confident that Stuckey could have fetched a veteran piece to put the Pistons in a better spot to win another ring).

      Since then, I’ve hated that Dumars refused to mortgage the present for the future. I think the lottery system is stupid, but as long as it is in place, “re-tooling” is the worst idea possible. The Pistons’ gobs of 2009 cap space could have been used to absorb lots of contracts from teams trying to clear out money for 2010 free agency. And those contracts could have come attached to picks. If Dumars had taken that route, the Pistons would have sucked for a few years (leading to better draft picks) and they could have gotten at least 4 or 5 additional quality assets in the last half-decade.

      But no, Dumars demands that every trade he make not (significantly) hurt the present or future quality of the team (I don’t think losing a draft pick probably in the late teens qualifies as significant harm). So it is way harder for him to pull one off that significantly helps either the present or future either. And that’s why he should be canned.

      Even if he makes better moves than an average GM (this is debatable either way), he doesn’t have any vision and he doesn’t understand the system. That’s why he had to hit 5 jackpots (super bargain contracts on Billups and Wallace, Rip-Stack trade, getting Prince outside the lottery, and the Sheed trade) to win a championship. I’d rather have a GM who is less likely to hit a jackpot but only needs 2 or 3 because he knows hot to leverage them.

      • Dec 27, 20133:37 pm
        by Otis


        I would argue that Joe’s “plans” are all short-term. 100% focused on winning as many games as humanly possible now. But yes, obviously it’s clear that there’s no long-term plans. Heck, look at this last offseason. The PR machine was constantly beating the drum that adding some perimeter shooting was what this team needed to build around Drumroe and our top priority. Then when we came away with Josh Smith, the company line was “talent upgrade” and all the perimeter shooting we acquired were bit players who, to the surprise of nobody with a brain, haven’t worked out. You can trace Joe’s narrative backwards and see how the team’s stated philosophy changes constantly based on whatever uneven talent happens to be on the roster, and that there is no follow through on the stated goals. I remember an old BS interview where he listed the most important elements of a modern NBA team, and his first two bullet points were “exceptional guard play” and “versatility.” Those answers were basically the only way to justify our roster composition at the time. I’m sure if he was asked the same questions today he’d say “exceptional big man play” and… um… “being unable to score outside the paint?” Anyhow, yes, we fully agree that there is clearly no vision at all.
        I don’t know if we necessarily agree on the differing factors in Joe’s early and recent moves. I don’t have a problem analyzing each move individually and in a big picture (where one exists). For instance, trading away the leader, the heart and soul of the team, was probably a foreseeable mistake. Giving $100M to two bench scorers without a defensive bones in their bodies was obviously not going to go well. But we agree on his poor planning in 05-08 and his poor planning from 08-present. I do think we tend to agree more on this team than we disagree.

  • Dec 27, 201312:22 am
    by pistons moribund


    Trade Bullwinkle for some socks.  Anything to avoid the suffering of his whining and look of dismay when he losses the ball.

    • Dec 27, 201312:36 am
      by gmehl


      A pair of AND1 socks?? Sorry I had to say it ;-)

      • Dec 27, 20139:03 am
        by jeff m


        Only if the AND1 socks have a Grant hill type player in them.

    • Dec 27, 20133:01 pm
      by Otis


      Yeah that annoys the shit out of me too. I’m just sick to death of the guy in the first place and don’t want to look at him anymore, so you can imagine how charming I find his uncalled for whining.

      • Dec 27, 20134:33 pm
        by Tim Thielke


        When I’ve accused you of wanting to piss away Monroe, it’s possible that I partially was remembering instances like this where you didn’t provide the germ of the idea but agreed with someone who did.

        While I still think you’re too eager to sell low on him, perhaps it’s not quite to the extent I presumed.

        • Dec 27, 20136:14 pm
          by Otis


          Could be. I really f*cking hate the guy. Just hate him. And I don’t know if you remember this, but I loved the guy his rookie season. But he smacked his head on his ceiling in year two and has been a fraud ever since. No drive, no leadership, just the same dumb player he’s been since 2011. The day this team locks him up long-term might honestly be the day I stop watching the team altogether and find a new hobby. This team was actually less depressing when there was nothing anybody could DO to set things right. Now that the options are right there in front of us but won’t get exercised, it’s breaking my spirit. My enthusiasm dwindles more and more each passing game as the march towards a commitment to eternal mediocrity.

  • Dec 27, 201312:22 pm
    by KarthikS


    I’d call Ainge to see if the Rondo trade is even a remote possibility (Rondo/G.Wallace for Monroe/expirings or Monroe/Jennings – whoever thinks the Pistons can get Rondo + Green needs to relax a bit), and if so pursue that.  A Drummond/Rondo/J.Smith/KCP core would be sick defensively (two top 15 players in the NBA in probably a year’s time) that you can build shooters around.  If not, I’d start shopping Monroe + expirings around to see if you can get a 2/3 that this team needs so that J.Smith can move towards his natural positions (think in no particular order Deng, Evan Turner/Thad Young, Affalo)

  • Dec 27, 201312:50 pm
    by apa8ren9


    The end of the year brings out all types of lists.   I thought I would add my 2 cents.  Hope this can stimulate potential solutions that we can argue about. Its really slim pickings out there.   Ill list a few people that the Pistons have a realistic shot at possibly obtaining that could help them with perimeter defense and an athlete at the swing position.  I listed the obvious candidates last.
    Thaddeus Young – not likely Philly would let him go but stranger things have happened
    Landry Fields – Along with Kyle Singler I think could man that 3 spot and help us
    Kris Middleton – Unfortunately just traded him away, but he will be a restricted free agent I believe.
    Perry Jones III – No room for this guy on a potential championship team.  Am I overvaluing his potential defensive skill?
    Gordon Hayward – The only way this happens is if Utah is not prepared to pay him.
    Harrison Barnes – Miracle trade only – GS has no reason to let this guy go.
    Im not really to fond of Rondo.  Especially not at this stage of the game.  I would take a look at Rondo when that contract is up and try then.   We need to see how Jennings works out for at least 2 yrs.

    • Dec 27, 20131:38 pm
      by KarthikS


      Who are the Pistons giving up to get some/any of these – I assume Monroe?  Hayward’s a good one to add on to this list – being that he’s having a tough year this year, may be able to get him + another asset for Monroe.  Rondo’s certainly not going to sign with Detroit as a FA, so the only avenue towards obtaining him is through a trade.  I’m OK with being patient with Jennings and there’s upside there, but if there’s a chance to get Rondo – I think you do it.  Even as an asset, he’s way more valuable than Monroe and/or Jennings.

      • Dec 27, 20132:07 pm
        by apa8ren9


        Im not keen on giving up Monroe unless we just get a lopsided deal in our favor.   I just threw those names out as realistic targets that could be acquired.   Patience is really needed because while we have identified our weaknesses other teams with much dumber GM’s than Dumars have not.   Also with so many people “tanking” and the new rules kicking in, its more likely that the impact player we need will be a lesser name. Guys that can play will get locked up right away.  Im all for adding that additional athlete/perimeter defender but Im just not going to give Monroe away.  Monroe can get paid and we can still trade him.  His value wont decline much over the next couple of years even at the higher salary because anyone that will be worth him in a trade will make a similar salary.

        • Dec 27, 20132:58 pm
          by Otis


          You’re not one of the five craziest people around here, but you’re desperately out of touch. You’ve wildly overvalued Moose Monroe, and acting like he’s going to be easily moved after he’s attached to a bloated $60M contract with NO ability to perform up to it as long as he’s on this particular roster (on another roster, he could perhaps earn that money, but not at PF and not sandwiched between Smith and Dre), plus you’ve conveniently ignored that this new contract means any trade requires us to take back similar money (where if we traded him now instead, we’re hardly required to take back much annual salary at all, and we’ve got the flexibility to throw in CV, Stuckey, Gigi, JJ to make trades work under the cap). But most important of all, Monroe is incapable of playing like a max caliber player in this Jumbo lineup. He’s the clear odd man out.
          Also you admit there are multiple GLARING holes on the roster, but you’re completely inflexible in terms of giving up someone like Moose to fill them. So by your strategy, the team stays pat at the deadline and here’s their July: Match an insane offer sheet for Moose with the erroneous assumption that moving him will be a breeze. Renounce our best shooting guard (Stuckey) or extend him to another ludicrous contract. If you renounce Stuckey, which would be a horrible waste, considering he has legitimate trade value, you can go out and spend up to $10M on free agents (as long as you’re within the 72 hour window you have to match Monroe’s offer) but that’s not going to get you two starting caliber wings, let alone replace the sixth man production Stuckey provided. And if you’re going to renounce him anyways, you might as well trade him for picks and/or prospects and have that same flexibility in July.
          In short, you think this year’s playoff push is so important it’s worth taking a huge bite out of your assets and flexibility going forward. Because we are NOT coming back next season with any significant improvements after renouncing your best SG, overpaying your second best C and Charlotte gets your #1 pick.

          • Dec 27, 20135:02 pm
            by apa8ren9

            Well we disagree on a few points.  Im glad you’ve expounded on why you think Feb is so important.  I do think that Monroe can be moved at any time.  If nothing happens in February should I close up shop because 1 team MIGHT offer something?  No. Thats dumb.  At the same time is there no rule that makes a team auto trade with the Pistons at the deadline so if it comes to July you have to deal with it.  I guess my biggest problem is definitive proclimations you are making and the inability to adapt your thinking.  When one door closes you open another.  You’ve got a 1 shot plan and thats it.   No alternatives no vision, just finger pointing and blame if they dont do what you say.  Its your opinion, its cool.  Here is mine.  Thats idiotic to go into February with that thinking.  You shut off all your options.  The league will continue on after 2014 and Miami wont win the championship every year.  I also believe that we shouldnt panic.  There are downsides that you point out but so what that doesnt move the needle down from where you are you can stay the same until you get it right.  All of these contracts coming up are going to be short term.  Thats what the new CBA is going to dictate.  You are required to spend 90% of the cap every year for every team.  You arent going to do a long term deal unless you are sure you have a cornerstone player.  Paying Monroe doesnt preclude you from getting a SG/SF to help your team.  If you churn through 5-10 players until you get a guy it doesnt matter.  Once you find him you have Monroe, Drummond, Smith and Jennings.  There are 30 teams how many guys do you think you can get on one team that are superstars?

          • Dec 27, 20136:35 pm
            by Otis

            Well, for one thing it’s not about a panic move. I’ve seen enough from Monroe. I would have traded him this summer without blinking an eye. It’s not panic. It’s recognizing that he projects to be your second best center, is a piss poor power forward, and refuses to expand his game to help the team. And I’ve never once watched Monroe and Drummond play together and thought they had a bright future together. They just look like they don’t fit. So that’s my main motivating factor. Trade a VERY valuable piece who will only hold you back anyways because he does not fit, trade him while you hold all the leverage, and shop him around the league so you can get the best package. Wait until July and you’re suddenly dealing from a position of weakness where your only “trump” card is that you can match an offer and keep this slug on a ridiculously large contract. That’s not much of an incentive for me to keep riding out this .500ish team.
            And you say you can just add talent around them, but first you’ll have to renounce Stuckey. I see no sense in that. There is nothing this team could possibly accomplish this season that makes it worth holding onto that guy, riding out the season, and losing him for nothing. So in a “best case” scenario, you have a cap hold on Moose for like $10.5 million, you renounce Stuckey (and CV) losing him for absolutely nothing when you could trade him now for SOMETHING, and you’ll have roughly $10 million to spend on beefing up the perimeter. How far is ten million bucks going to get you to add to Jennings, Singler, KCP and Bynum?? Not very far. Ten million bucks is barely going to replace what Stuckey’s been contributing so far this season.
            I think the main difference between me and people like you (and Dumars) is that you’re operating from a premise that we’re fine and will continue to be fine, and the status quo is good so let’s stick with it and see where it gets us. I operate from the premise that we are NOT fine and really aren’t very close to fine as long as we stick with this game plan. Invest all your money in guys who can’t play together, don’t have a draft pick coming this season, are orchestrating your offseason so that before you even get started you’re shooting yourself in the foot by overpaying Moose and losing Stuckey for nothing.
            If you think the Pistons are wonderful, then sure you’ll be okay with handing Greg the fattest contract in franchise history. Hey, we can afford to lose an asset like Stuckey, because we’re fine! We’ll be fine! This is the same lack of urgency that’s been driving the Pistons for years. Dump a draft pick because if only Ben Gordon were gone we’d be alright. Ben Gordon is the problem. But no, that’s not reality. This team is in very, very bad shape. The future is not bright and will not be “fine.” Most people acknowledge that this team has a ways to go before they’re ready to compete for a championship, so how are you possibly doing the right thing when you’re starting July off by giving your third or fourth best player a colossal pay raise and letting one of your top five or six players walk for absolutely nothing whatsoever? We don’t have NEARLY the assets a team needs to afford to take those kinds of steps backwards. I wish you understood, but you’ll see next year when we continue to stumble and don’t really show any improvement from the mediocrity you seem to be so satisfied with right now.

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