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Trading Greg Monroe is not the answer

There are two scenarios in which I could see Greg Monroe getting traded:

* A team makes an overwhelmingly good offer in which the Pistons get a player better than Monroe in return.

* The Pistons underperform, their frontcourt-heavy roster has fit issues most of the season and, in a panic move to make a playoff push near the trade deadline, the Pistons accept a trade offer from Monroe that nets them a more traditional starter at small forward or shooting guard.

Obviously, one of those scenarios is far preferable to the other. But the far better scenario is not trading Monroe at all because he’s really, really good and still improving. My column for the Detroit Free Press:

Offensively, an argument could be made that his production and skill set already were All-Star-worthy. His defense has notably lagged behind, but he has shown significant improvement this season. His defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) is a very good 99.

Playing with rim protectors like Drummond and Smith certainly helps, but there have been notable improvements in Monroe’s footwork, timing and physicality on defense as well. In the past, he always seemed a step or two slow in rotating or anticipating on defense. This season, he’s beating opponents to spots more frequently. His defensive footwork is not as clumsy. He’s not the leaper that Smith and Drummond are, but he’s learning how to use his strength and positioning to make opposing players set up on the court in spots they’re not as comfortable in. And Monroe has always had quick hands on defense — he’s one of the better bigs in the league at coming up with steals and strips.

Offensively, with Drummond not having a developed post game, Smith chucking shots, and a never-ending supply of shoot-happy, inefficient guards, Monroe remains the Pistons’ best option to get quality shots in half-court sets. Finding a replacement, regardless of position, who can create shots for himself as efficiently Monroe won’t be easy.

I still think, as I wrote before the season started, that there’s a decent chance Monroe gets traded because I do expect this team to have stretches of undisciplined play and poor offense that leads to losses. I just really, really hope it doesn’t happen unless the Pistons get a star in return.

67 Comments

  • Nov 8, 20132:26 pm
    by Anthony

    Reply

    I completely agree! I’ve been saying since we drafted him that he’s gonna be really good, and when the rumblings started about trading him, I didnt understand why he would be the one to be traded. IMO smith is the worst fit for this team. But we obviously can’t trade him. And we are certainly not trading Drummond. I understand this leaves Monroe but I almost feel like he is in the same air as Drummond as “untouchable” (unless a deal blows us out of the water in terms of superstar players in return)

    • Nov 8, 20133:16 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      1) It sounds very much like you understand why he would be the one to be traded.
       
      2) What if these are two “untouchable” guys who just can’t play together? It happens from time to time. We were lucky to get our greasy hands on them in the first place. It would be a shame to keep both because we don’t have the stomach to trade them and then watch them hold each other back by just being two centers who don’t really fit.

      • Nov 8, 20134:08 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        “It would be a shame to keep both because we don’t have the stomach to trade them and then watch them hold each other back by just being two centers who don’t really fit.”

        Otis, you have to get off this “Monroe and Drummond don’t fit” kick. You know who is a fit playing next to Andre Drummond? Anyone in the world, including Greg Monroe. All Drummond does is rebound, run, set screens, protect the rim and dunk. 

        It’s highly possible that Monroe-Drummond-Smith don’t fit. But Monroe-Drummond fit. Smith-Drummond fit. Shit, Drummond-Maxiell would be a fit. Drummond’s skillset is so valuable precisely because it literally works next to any stiff you could put next to him in the frontcourt and make that stiff look competent. When you put him with a highly skilled big like Monroe, even better. They’ll  both make each other better.

        • Nov 8, 20134:53 pm
          by MIKEYDE248

          Reply

          I think Drummond showed that last year playing most of his time with the bench players and making them all look much better than they were.

        • Nov 8, 20135:59 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          I’m not getting off any kicks just yet. Drummond can play with anyone, sure, but we’re not going to get the most out of either of them when teams just routinely collapse on the paint. The help defense is never more than a foot away at any given time. I’ve said this before, but just to reiterate, since you’ve been gone a while: Last year those guys were each phenomenal, except when you put them on the floor together. Small sample size, but it looked pretty bad. And I haven’t seen anything at all so far that makes me think they’re any better of a fit now. A lot hinges on this phantom jump shot that Monroe was supposed to have in college but still hasn’t shown up, but right now I remain unconvinced. When they start making each other look better, I’ll tell you. Really.

      • Nov 8, 201310:03 pm
        by Anthony

        Reply

        Yea I understand as to why everyone is saying he’s the odd man out. But like I also said, it’s not logical that he’s the one traded. Him and Drummond are the two best players on this team. 

    • Nov 9, 20136:38 am
      by Darwyn

      Reply

      Really are you guys that paniced.  After 5 games blow it up it’s not working.  They lossed to 3 of the top teams from a year ago.  This team hasn’t played but 2 games together at full strength but just blow it up.  I find it funny that most of you blame Dumars for doing nothing over the past 4 years right.  So he makes a splash in this year free agency he takes the best players available and it’s still a problem.  Now if had done nothing you would ask what is he doing.  Everyone take a whoosaw and calm down.  Let the team learn to play together and see what you have.  Monroe is playing great it only adds to his value and I’m not convinced they can’t play together yet.  They are going to learn how to beat the upper echlon teams, but they are going to beat up on the smaller weaker teams.  So calm down.  This was a tough stretch of games.  Look the bulls are 2 and 3.  Should the bulls trade butler or Luol Deng after five games.  How about Brooklyn should they just blow up their team at 2 and 3.  I’m just saying take a step back.  Look at the positives vs negatives.  Seems we only focus on the negative.  How about putting KCP back in the rotation over Billups and Bynum.  He was playing well before Cheeks fell into that old trap of player vets over rookies.

  • Nov 8, 20132:46 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    it is clear that the groundwork is being laid for monroe to be traded.
    from signing smith to not offering him a contract, the signs could not be more clear, as crazy as the idea is. 
    it is crystal clear that dumars has created another roster of very ill-fitting parts.  after 4 games, the concerns that critics had are obviously coming true.
    dumars will be in a panic around the trade deadline, as the team will continue its roller coaster ride and he’s  see trading monroe as the best and easiest way to put the team on a playoff run.
    unfortunately it will end up being just one more of the bad moves he’s made over the last few years.
    fans should get prepared to be very, very upset.

    • Nov 8, 20133:12 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      I liked everything you were saying until you got to the “panic” part. I don’t think Joe will panic. He’s sat on his chubby hands every single trade deadline for the past decade, so that’s his comfort zone. If he trades Monroe by the deadline, it’s for reasons other than “panic.”
       
      Also, I wouldn’t fret too much about the fact that Monroe didn’t get an extension, because it made no sense whatsoever to give him one. Monroe wouldn’t sign for less than the max right now anyways, and by waiting to pay him they don’t risk losing him; they just end up with more flexibility once free agency starts. Moose’s cap hold is around $10M, which is around $5M less than his contract will be. So waiting gives the team that extra money to try and improve with. If Moose already had his extension, we’d have almost no cap space to improve the team. And with no draft pick this season, that flexibility is huge.
       
      I’m holding off concrete determination that this formula will “never” work, but it doesn’t look good so far. And we don’t have the luxury of waiting any longer than February to start making decisions about how best to move forward. If things aren’t clicking by then, I don’t see how you could argue we should keep this team together and expect success in the future.

    • Nov 8, 20134:56 pm
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      I think Monroe was the one who said he wasn’t even going to concider a new contract until after the season was over.

      • Nov 8, 20135:01 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        I think he said that after it was made clear to his agent that the Pistons weren’t going to offer a max extension. That hasn’t been reported, of course, but my impression is the Pistons didn’t want to max him and Monroe’s camp didn’t want to settle for less than max before they’ve tested his market.

        • Nov 8, 20135:09 pm
          by joe dumars

          Reply

          Actually David Aldridge did report last month the Pistons don’t want to max Monroe because of what they have on the roster. Also David Falk always let his RFA hit the market.

          • Nov 8, 20136:04 pm
            by Otis

            If nothing changes, it would be ridiculous to give him the max.

          • Nov 8, 20138:19 pm
            by Max

            Could any comment possibly be more redundant? 

  • Nov 8, 20133:05 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    The problem is that the alternative, unless things turn around by February, is that we’ve gone all-in on a trio of big men who make each other (and everyone around them) worse. I would have liked to see Drummond and Monroe play together a LOT more last year, but it didn’t happen. And if Dumars knew for sure that he was going to keep Monroe, then he should never ever EVER have brought in Josh Smith, talent upgrade or not. But this is the situation we’re in. Blame Dumars for that.
     
    Honestly, I seriously doubt the potential of a Monroe-Drummond pairing because of the lack of shooting and space. And when you add Smith, forget about it. I get very annoyed at broad, sweeping statements like, “Trading Monroe would be a mistake,” colossal or massive or otherwise. What you get by trading Monroe are: Assets, maybe a quality wing and a pick. You also get to avoid handing him a max contract and locking yourself into a roster that doesn’t work. I don’t know that you could do anything to completely stifle Smith’s bad habits, but moving him off the perimeter would be a good start. But unless something changes, I don’t see how you can build around these bigs. Playing them together has resulted in our worst lineup, but what self respecting team routinely closes out games with one of their top three players on the bench, especially for a team you agree is so short on talent? If things don’t turn around by February, it will make sense to trade this guy just to shift to a formula that actually works. It’s not like Monroe is a SLAM DUNK max quality player. Based on offense alone, he’s not elite. He needs to reach elite status on offense and/or drastically improve his defense to justify the salary. So it would be a nice bonus to avoid having to be saddled with that hefty contract he’ll have to play up to.
     
    What this article is sorely lacking is an explanation of what the team can or should do specifically to improve the team. It’s all opinion and conjecture. “Continue to add talent” is meaningless when the team is still down a first round pick and will only have enough cap space for one slightly-above-mid-level player this summer. Then we’re basically in luxury tax territory just to try and be a second tier team. You just can’t invest that much money on one area of the roster. Anyhow, we saw it last year: Monroe is at his best with many shooters on the floor and room to operate. So Josh Smith or not, playing alongside Drummond just plain isn’t the ideal environment to get the most out of him. Sometimes you luck into two players in the draft who are both excellent but can’t play together. It happens. The worst thing they could possibly do is give him that extension before the team has exhibited any synergy. At least now you’re not desperate to move him (not by outward appearance anyway) and he’s not a one-way player who’s attached to one of the biggest contracts out there. So, uh, suggestions? Or else it’s hard just to believe trading him would be some kind of disaster that has any more downside than paying him.
     
    PS: I no longer like his attitude. This “and one” B.S. every time he takes a shot, and making the Tayshaun face when calls don’t go his way. Sick of it. And I don’t think he’ll be any happier of a camper when the team tells him in black and white that he’s not their five-year man. I smell trouble, and I’d take a starting caliber wing and a pick right now easy. Done deal.

    • Nov 8, 20133:27 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “What you get by trading Monroe are: Assets, maybe a quality wing and a pick.”

      Are you convinced that a team will offer a quality wing and a first round pick for Monroe? Also, what’s a “quality” wing? A prospect like Harrison Barnes? An overrated and overpaid Rudy Gay? Luol Deng and the 300,000 miles on him? Gallinari and his injury issues? There aren’t exactly a lot of really good wings who could potentially be on the market at the moment. Also, if you’re trading for Monroe, would you give up great assets for him if you know he’s intent on hitting free agency? Unless you’re SURE you can sign him, teams are going to be hesitant to give up great value for him.

      Yeah, a trade might balance the roster, but if the sum of the parts you get for Monroe isn’t as good as Monroe, what’s the point? A balanced roster with less talent? GREAT! Plan the parade.

      “What this article is sorely lacking is an explanation of what the team can or should do specifically to improve the team. It’s all opinion and conjecture.”

      For starters, and I think this is pretty clear in the column, they should not trade Monroe unless they are getting a player(s) that are better than Monroe in return. You don’t get better by subtracting talent for less talent. The point is, Monroe is a major asset. So you don’t trade a major asset to simply balance out your roster. Trading him very well be a means to get better, but if you’re not getting a great haul in return, it doesn’t make much sense to trade him right now just because you’d like a more traditional small forward.

      “ “Continue to add talent” is meaningless when the team is still down a first round pick and will only have enough cap space for one slightly-above-mid-level player this summer. ”

      Well, they’re only “down” a first round pick this year if it’s beyond pick eight, so I’m not conceding yet that they’ve lost that pick this year. They could still be bad enough to keep it, although if they are, Joe Dumars probably won’t be around to make that pick. And as far as what they can add? There’s no shortage of affordable floor spacers on the market in 2014 they could pursue. Replacing a couple of terrible shooting rotation players with good shooting ones and adding a lottery pick would certainly “add talent.” And if they don’t keep their pick, they can still trade other players. Josh Smith is expensive but tradeable. Brandon Jennings  is tradeable. Even some of their lesser players — Bynum, Singler — or expiring contracts if they do an in-season trade could easily inject more shooting into the lineup.

      “So, uh, suggestions? Or else it’s hard just to believe trading him would be some kind of disaster that has any more downside than paying him.”

      You’re missing the premise. Trading him for good value would be fine, but if you pay attention to NBA trades, not many bring both teams equal on-court value, so I’m skeptical the Pistons can trade Monroe and get a player who is his equal or close to it in return. Trading him because you’re desperate to balance out your roster and chase a lower tier playoff berth would be stupid.

      “ I no longer like his attitude. This “and one” B.S. every time he takes a shot, and making the Tayshaun face when calls don’t go his way. ”

      Ha. Yeah. He’s the only NBA player in the league to visibly/vocally express frustration at calls. What a harbinger of bad things to come that he yells a thing that like 99 percent of people playing basketball yell on any court in the country at any level when they feel like there’s contact when shooting.

      • Nov 8, 20135:02 pm
        by Brigs

        Reply

        Bill Simmons devotes whole columns to the notion that sometimes subtracting a player even a great one sometimes makes the team better, he calls it the Ewing theory and I agree with it to a point. If we trade Monroe for a wing like galinari and anthor asset you would say we got a hustled but I think that would vault us from playoff hopeful to contender or close to it at least. Besides I thinks it’s been made pretty obvious that joe d won’t give Monroe a max contract and we could lose him for nothing anyways. 

        • Nov 8, 20138:32 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Gallo is never healthy and Monroe never misses a game.   Terrible notion.  

      • Nov 8, 20136:19 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        1) I don’t know exactly what the “right” package is or who would be available, but I’m sure if Monroe was on the open market this summer, more than a few teams would have tried to snatch him up and proudly present him to their fanbase. As I’ve said before, he’s a valuable commodity as a Very Good center. If he was the only center we could get our hands on, I’d be totally okay with giving him the max and keeping him around. The range of trades I’d do is very broad. Deng and all his miles plus a #1 pick? That’s probably a “sell low” point, but it’s important to remember that I consider it a perk NOT to have to pay Moose infinity million dollars to be basically the same guy we’ve seen since his second season. I also consider it a perk to shift Smith to PF. Gallo and a pick? Certainly worth the risk since Denver looks like a lottery lock. Barnes and a pick? Sure. There’s plenty of reasonable trades out there I’m sure.
         
        2) If they’re bad enough to keep their pick this year, not only does Dumars get fired, that means this has been a COLOSSAL failure and I’ve been proven right that this crap will basically never work. Because from that point, unless you’re landing yet ANOTHER lottery gem, you’re stuck in the mud and capped out with a roster that stinks and only added a rookie. We’re not going to be bad enough to keep that pick, so let’s move on from that. In terms of trading players, this is the same crap I just got into with another friend of mine. You think you’re going to trade Smith, Jennings, Singler, etc. and get UPGRADES? What planet are we living on? You question what kinds of packages you could get for Moose, who is a Very Good center on a rookie contract, but your proposal to balance the team involves trading volume shooters on big contracts? Or Singler, who’s been our best shooter since he got here. You can’t possibly be thinking this through. Dumars, for the most part, shot his wad this summer. That was his summer, and he did what he did.
         
        3) In terms of “equal value” I’ve said before that I’d be willing to take back 75 cents on the dollar. I’d love to NOT have to pay him a truckload of money to clog up the middle. I’d love to move Smith to his natural position. And the beauty of a pick is in its uncertain value. So you maybe don’t know exactly what you’ll get in a player-and-a-pick package, but then again they don’t know what they’re giving up.Again, waiting until February would be prudent. But if the team doesn’t look a heck of a lot better by then, I remain unconvinced that you’ll build a winner around this mismatched core.

  • Nov 8, 20133:06 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    You might be right with senario 2 that if things just are not working and a more traditional team may be tried to be assembled…

    i have heard some people bring up the name Harrison Barnes, I like him a lot but of course we would have to take Lee which would basically put us back in the position were in with Smith starting at SF…although Lee can actually shoot better than Moose which might help our team if it just isn’t working come trade deadline… 

    I have faith it will work though and Moose stays  

    • Nov 8, 20133:20 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Lee and Barnes for Monroe and spare parts? Sign me up.
       
      Lee can shoot the ball AND has stronger post moves. And he’s a legitimate power forward. A better trade would involve a wing and a pick, I think, but Lee and Barnes sounds great. There are hundreds of trade combinations that would make a lot of sense.

      • Nov 10, 20131:31 pm
        by D_S_V

        Reply

        No thank you for Lee. Plus he’d keep Smith at SF. Contradicting yourself. 

  • Nov 8, 20133:28 pm
    by maeby

    Reply

    Patrick, do you have any hypotheticals for your first scenario?

    • Nov 8, 20134:02 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Not really. I think Golden State is the only team that makes sense at this point — I’d prefer a package for Monroe that includes Thompson but would settle for one that includes Barnes. Depending on what else is involved, I could be convinced a deal like that is a win for the Pistons. But there just honestly aren’t that many wings who are plausibly available who I wold rather have than Monroe.

  • Nov 8, 20133:44 pm
    by KB

    Reply

    Monroe for Harrison Barnes..  do it….

    • Nov 8, 20134:14 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Why is everyone convinced Barnes is good? Monroe is a very good NBA starter. Barnes is a good prospect, but he’s also not even a starter right now, albeit on a stacked team. He had a decent enough rookie season and he certainly would merit consideration if Golden State wanted to trade him, but right now, he’s a significant downgrade in talent.

      Seriously, this is not as simple as “trade Monroe for a wing.” How many decent wings who could also be had in a trade are actually available right now? Rudy Gay? DeRozan maybe? Deng maybe? Gallinari/Chandler? Maybe Barnes? Evan Turner?

      Do any of those guys represent a significant enough upgrade to the lineup to make trading Monroe worth it?

      • Nov 8, 20134:46 pm
        by mongoslade86

        Reply

        The other thing people tend to forget is why Josh Smith signed here I think he pictured himself as a small forward who could play power forward more than a power forward who has the ability to play wing. Wasn’t that one of the reasons he left Atlanta? Do we want another “Prince” Tayshaun?

  • Nov 8, 20134:32 pm
    by tom

    Reply

    I too have high hopes for Monroe, but I don’t see how you can flat out say it’s a bad idea to trade him.
    I think Monroe is a boarder line all star right now and hopefully in a year or two he will be a definite star and maybe climb as high as an all NBA 2nd or 3rd team. Obviously that is extremely valuable, but looking at our team as currently construed it would seem that if we could get a guy who plays the 2 or the 3 that is similarly a near all star who seems on the verge of becoming an all star, I don’t see how the Pistons could pass that up. Getting equal talent at a position of greater need seems like the definition of a good trade. I’m not sure who that 2/3 is, or which team wants to make that deal, but if they are out there I think you have to pull the trigger.

    • Nov 8, 20134:36 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I don’t think it’s a bad idea to trade him if they get equal or greater value in return. My point is, I don’t think there’s a plausible trade scenario or available player on the trade market based on current rumors who would be greater or equal value. 

      • Nov 8, 20134:49 pm
        by tom

        Reply

        I haven’t really followed the current rumors, so I might agree with you. But Monroe for Rondo seems like a fair deal – not the ideal fit for us, but if we could then move Jennings for something it seems like a win-win. I think there are enough young guys with potential that by mid season might have proven themselves enough to make the trade feasible. I’m a big Eric Gordon fan, if he’s healthy that seems like a starting place.

      • Nov 11, 20136:10 pm
        by Jens

        Reply

        Sorry Patrick, but that´s not a valid Point. There are tons of attractive packages that would make sense for both trade Partners via s&t:
        Boston: 2 of Rondo, Jeff Green and Bostons 1st 2014 in ANY combination would be very attractive
        Chicago:  2 of Butler, Deng and Chicagos 1st 2014 
        Denver: 2 of Gallinari, Chandler and Denvers 1st 2014 
        Golden State: 2 of Thompson, Barnes and GS 1st 2014
        New Orleans: Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson
        Philly: Young, Turner, NOs 1st 2014
        Portland: Batum, Mathews
         
        and that´s probably not all…..

  • Nov 8, 20134:35 pm
    by deusXango

    Reply

    “Do any of those guys represent a significant enough upgrade to the lineup to make trading Monroe worth it?”
    Hell no!!!

  • Nov 8, 20134:53 pm
    by Lexstarbuck

    Reply

    I can’t really believe I’m reading this. If any of you would take Drummond over Monroe your absolutely nuts. I’d trade Drummond before Moose any day. In my both SKILL beats athleticism any day. Monroe is skilled at either position. You can find at least two or three athletic shot blockers every draft, but those with a skillset don’t come a dime a dozen. 

    • Nov 8, 20135:04 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Drummond isn’t just “an athletic shot blocker.” He’s averaging 11 and 11 and he’s a game-changing defensive force. Also, he’s 20 years old. Find me “two or three” players that are doing that from each of the last five drafts. 

      • Nov 8, 20137:24 pm
        by Lexstarbuck

        Reply

        Yes, good numbers, but when the game slows down who do you rely on. At this point Drummond is far from what you get with Monroe. A mid range to lowpost threat offensively. Right now I don’t even see Drummond developing a post game. I know there’s plenty of time, but don’t you think we’re giving up on Monroe prematurely. Moose may not be athletic, but he makes up for it in savvy. He has an assortment of moves to get his shot off. I’ve always thought athleticism was overrated. As I posted SKILL, should be more relevant than how far you can jump out of the gym.

        • Nov 8, 20137:51 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          It’s not about “Giving up on Monroe.” This isn’t a Brandon Knight situation. The man will get a fabulously rich extension next year. If he wanted to stay here at a cap friendly 10-12 mil, I think Joe would be thrilled to keep him for the next four years and maybe more. But he’s not going that cheap. Someone is going to max him out. And this big lineup looks bad so far, so it’s not so much about giving up on a guy. It’s about getting the most bang for your buck, and hopefully balancing out a horrifically unbalanced team.

  • Nov 8, 20135:46 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    I think there are other possible trades out there besides golden state…now would the other team do it that’s another question…would Portland be willing to move a Nick Batum and Myers Lenonard type package? they could use Monroe in the Center spot with the likes of Lillard, Aldridge, Mathews and McCollum…would Pelicans possibly want to move Ryan Anderson and Aminu type package to give Brow a big body to help…those are a few that jump out at me as at least a possibility…

    Although I hope Joe still has some hope of getting Rondo…move Jennings and Moose for Rondo, Olyenk, Bass and like a second rounder…I just like Rondo, guy ha heart an is tough…I know it won’t happen 

    • Nov 8, 20136:23 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Moose and Jennings for Rondo and Olynyk. In a heartbeat.

      • Nov 9, 20132:11 am
        by jack

        Reply

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!, Hold up HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Hold up I just threw up.  We got us a Celtics fan in the house.  Why not throw in Drummond.

    • Nov 8, 201311:19 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      You guys need to give up on Rondo, he’s A) not that good and B) with the knee injury may never be as good as he has been.
       
      You guys complain about Jennings shooting, I invited you to watch some tape of Rondos shooting.

  • Nov 8, 20138:31 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    Patrick has been on point with everything he’s written in his article and thread here.  

  • Nov 9, 201312:28 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    thompson and barnes plus draft pick first round for Monroe…
    but im not sure if GS is gonna Bite..
     
    we really need a 2 guard anyway… might need to package monroe plus stuckey for wings…maybe we need to get someone from other teams…. who are the best off guard prospects aside from GS that can hit the 3?

  • Nov 9, 20131:17 am
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    I don’t think those are necessarily the only scenarios. Couldn’t Minnesota see the writing on the wall with Kevin Love (a stretch four who would fit well with Smith and Drummond and solve spacing issues) looking to pack his bags for greener pastures once Minny inevitably collapses mid-season and offer a trade for Monroe? 

    Alternatively, what about Ryan Anderson (another stretch four) + Eric Gordon for Monroe and expirings? I’m not saying to just trade Monroe. I’m just saying there could be other reasons to trade him and still get value. Also, it’s not about fit so much as eliminating redundancy if it needs to be. 

    Also, I like Harrison Barnes. I live in the Bay Area and have been watching this kid play. He’s already good; he’s not just a prospect. If he was on the Pistons right now, everyone commenting on this blog would be gushing about him. He’d be a sacred cow. I think he’ll be an all-star one day. I’d actually make that move if we got another player in the deal, just to eliminate skill redundancy and arguably upgrade our frontline defense.

    • Nov 9, 20135:19 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Eric Gordon hasn’t been healthy in a few years and on his contract that makes him too risky.
       
      As for Barnes, well, here’s some stats for you.
       
      Player A: 25.4 minutes, 9.2 points, 4.1 rebounds, .526 true shooting percentage.
      Player B: 28 minutes, 8.8 points, 4 rebounds, .517 true shooting percentage.
       
      Player A is clearly better, but it is still pretty darn close. Player A is Harrison Barnes and player B is Kyle Singler. His age and his playoff performance suggests that Barnes is far more likely to turn into a quality player, but he was a really average rookie in the regular season last year. I’d advise not getting too caught up on a handful of games, even if they were in the playoffs. He’s clearly a talented prospect, but he really hasn’t done all that much just yet.

      • Nov 10, 20131:30 am
        by Desolation Row

        Reply

        I wouldn’t just want Barnes back in that deal. I’m just saying he would be a solid asset in a trade. Also, those stats you quoted do not include defense — half the game. Also, consider Barnes also has a higher true shooting percentage than Kyle Singler — a player a few years older than Barnes whose calling card is as a shooter. David Lee (who would come off the bench?) or Ezeli could be a solid asset from GS in a package deal well. 

  • Nov 9, 20132:09 am
    by jack

    Reply

    17.8 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.4 blocks, .516 FG, .789 FT, enough said.  And you dorks want to trade him for whom.  Those numbers can not be easily duplicated.  Since he came to the league he leads the Eastern conference in double doubles.  He is playing defense now, which was the only knock on him.  I say we stay put with this lineup.  If I were Joe I would most definitely give Moose the max offer.  This lineup we have will not be easily duplicated.  Once chemistry develops and some 3s start falling at a decent clip for them, the Pistons will be okay.

  • Nov 9, 20132:30 am
    by James

    Reply

    Another case of over valuing our own players. Monroe is a decent to good player, same as Al Horford, what’s his trade value? Would Golden State just give up pieces to a team who went as far as they did in the playoffs with little defense and rebounding for a big whose defense and rebounding are suspect? Even if they did do a trade it would be Lee and maybe the 9th or 10th guy on the bench and a 2nd round pick. Barnes is too high of a pick at a position that’s going to be needed in Golden State due to Iguodala’s age, 31-32 yrs old. I believe Dumars is stuck with Monroe, and whose to say we will ever get past a young Indiana, young Chicago and at least several budding teams that are built better than our team.

    • Nov 9, 20135:55 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I’m sorry, but knocking Horford is not the way to make this point. Horford is really good. I wish that Monroe was as good as Horford. Horford has somewhat limited trade value because he’s always hurt, not because he isn’t good. Monroe meanwhile is an iron man, so this comparison is really bad.
       
      I also need to say that anyone that thinks that Monroe’s rebounding is suspect has a really weird definition of suspect. He was 17th in the league in rebounds last year. That is clearly a good rebounder and most definitely not suspect.
       
      As for Monroe, I have a comparison for you. Al Jefferson put up 16 points and 11 rebounds in his 3rd year in the league, which is awfully similar to Mornoe’s 16 and 9.6. He also isn’t any better defensively than Monroe. So he gave a bit more rebounding, but he couldn’t pass which makes him an awfully similar prospect to Monroe. On top of that he missed 47 games in his 3 first 3 years in the league while Greg has missed 3 games so far. So it’s a guy sort of like Monroe, but with some injury red flags. Boston traded him and scrap pieces for Kevin Garnett. Young big men that can score in the post are a rare commodity and they have a lot of trade value. I understand that Garnett wanted out of Minnesota and that was a major part of that trade going through, but it doesn’t happen if Minnesota didn’t also have a really high value on Al Jefferson. Lee and trash is no where near the kind of value that Detroit should get back for Monroe.

  • Nov 9, 20138:34 am
    by Rodman4Life

    Reply

    Otis is the new debbie downer on this site.  So steadfast and certain of his ideas that he’s lost the ability to be objective.  Drummond is young and has gotten in early foul trouble against some veteran teams, and that is a game changer for our cause. Jennings is just back from his tooth thing and still getting to know the players. Smith is trigger happy mostly because he doesn’t yet feel comfortable or confident in our offense.  Let’s just watch this west coast swing and see how they do. We may be pleasantly surprised.

  • Nov 9, 201311:09 am
    by CityofKlompton

    Reply

    I didn’t take the time to read everyone’s comments, but has anyone thought about the possibility of a sign-and-trade? It’s entirely possible we trade him after this season and get more of a return due to the partner team’s security of having Monroe locked up.

  • Nov 9, 201311:34 am
    by jack

    Reply

    Monroe is better than Harford and Jefferson.  He is 5th in the league rebounding, is playing at a higher level than before with Smith in the fold.  Drummond had a couple of subpar games.  That will happen.  It is no reason to panic and demand trades for Harina Barnes or Davina Lee.  They are women compared to him.

    • Nov 9, 20133:00 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Saying Monroe is 5th in the league in rebounding means relatively little since we are only 5 games in. That’s just not a big enough sample size to know how much of that is just a normal variation over a small sample size and how much is him getting better. If he’s still around 12 rebounds a game come January I’ll reconsider, but as of now I have to assume that he will regress towards his mean. He has been a pretty consistent rebounder the last two years, just a bit above 9.5. I have to assume he will drop down to somewhere around 10 a game by seasons end. He might be closer to 11 if he continues to play 38 minutes a game. I suspect that Drummond will settle down a bit and eat up more minutes at center, which will then have a side effect of cutting into Monroe’s minutes and bringing him down to the 10 rebounds a game that I mentioned previously.
       
      I should also point out that on a per minute basis, Horford is actually pulling in more rebounds than Monroe this year. Monroe is pulling in 11 per 36 minutes while Horford is pulling in 11.8 per 36. Monroe’s rebounding edge is due to playing more minutes and not being a better rebounder. Even if this year’s numbers were to hold up, that isn’t actually separating him from Horford. Of course, it seems likely that Horford’s rebounding numbers also regress a bit too, which should keep him more or less even with Mornoe. Horford is a much better defender, turns it over much less often, and shoots at a better rate. Horford also has the kind of mid range jump shot that many of us wish Monroe had because it would open up the floor spacing a bit. Horford is much older than Monroe so that isn’t exactly bad, but Horford is clearly the better player right now.
       
      As for Jefferson, Monroe is arguably a bit better than him now. I am the only one that referenced him for comparing to Monroe, and it very clearly was a reference to the player that Al Jefferson used to be. Jefferson has declined due to injuries, but at the time of his trade he was a similar value to Monroe. Again, expecting Monroe to keep up this 5 game pace is a mistake. To determine his trade value you have to use his numbers from last year. He likely has made some improvements from last season, but it is far too soon to know how much he has improved and how much is just looking at a small sample size. It should also be noted that this is year 4 for Monroe. Jefferson was moved in year 3, so it does make a lot of sense to compare his 3rd year to Monroe’s 3rd year when discussing their relative values. In his 4th year, Jefferson averaged 21 and 11 as opposed to the 18 and 12 Monroe is putting up for the year so far. Admittedly Jefferson is without Mornoe’s passing, and through 5 games Monroe looks like he might be a bit better defensively than Jefferson was, but most teams would take the 21 and 11. Still, Jefferson is a useful comparison for determining Monroe’s trade value, which is the real point I was making anyways.

      • Nov 11, 201312:53 am
        by sc8581

        Reply

        You do know Jefferson came straight out of High School don’t you, so your comparisons are off because of age. Either way, they are very similar players, Jefferson is definitely better and that’s not likely to change.
        Most of you are over-rating Monroe and under-rating how much better the rest of the team would be with a more traditional line-up. Harrison Barnes is intriguing but has shown nothing, he scored a little in the playoffs but he also took a lot of shots and played a lot of minutes so….. Gordon Hayward would be the perfect fit but Utah doesn’t need Moose so it would have to be a 3-way deal. Ilyasova would be a great fit next to Smith and Drummond in the frontcourt, maybe him, Udoh and a future #1 for Monroe and Villanueva. There are a lot of possibilities out there, stop acting like Monroe is or ever will be anything special when he’s not really much better than guys like Pekovic and Gortat.

  • Nov 9, 20132:05 pm
    by Toozman

    Reply

    Good Lord.  How many players in the league have Monroe’s skill set?  Let the assets keep developing and figure it out in the summer.  The Pistons are on a one year freeroll with Monroe, and as long as he doesn’t get injured, he’ll be worth the contract.  Yes, it’s the strangest starting lineup in the league, but there’s four legitimate assets out there (Chauncey needs to be replaced, but that’s another topic).

    • Nov 10, 201312:09 am
      by The Microwave

      Reply

      Move Mr Big Shot to the 6th man for big shots. Bring stuckey in and start him at the 2

  • Nov 9, 20133:16 pm
    by brandow

    Reply

    you guys think we can do a sign-and-trade monroe during the 2014 NBA draft for the 1st overall pick so we can get andrew wiggins

  • Nov 9, 20139:24 pm
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    I think the pistons would get better by trading stuckey and villanueva for danny granger.  Numbers work and all on last year of contract.  Monroe is a good player and max contract IMO is not too much for him.  I would like to see KCP playing because I think as his rookie year continues he will get better.  We have one too many guards and need help at sf or pf.  Stuckey is probably the most tradeable guard.  

    • Nov 10, 201312:07 am
      by The Microwave

      Reply

      We cant have super stars at all positions. Stuckeys a stud when it comes to efficiency . I would love to see him start at the 2 and bring in Mr. Big Shot for big shots. I like our team . Run the ball through the bigs and let them do their thing.

      • Nov 10, 201312:18 am
        by Jeremy

        Reply

        I would be shocked if stuckey is ever a prominent player on a team that is better than a 5 seed.  He puts up good statistics but can’t shoot or pass the ball that well.  Of course with our dominant bigs that is the primary thing that is needed.  I like the team but see issues with the guards (too many need minutes) and bench players at 3-4-5 outside of singler playing the three.  Our strength is the bigs and trading monroe would be a terrible move.  I see us as a 7-8 seed in playoffs without an upgrade.  

  • Nov 10, 201312:05 am
    by The Microwave

    Reply

    Joe D would be crazy and insane to trade Monroe. Its just a shame that we could lose him to free agency

  • Nov 10, 201312:58 pm
    by mubin

    Reply

    deal monroe for batum. take on a bigger contract, but it will make us amost contenders in my opinion. batum is a monster at shooting, defending, and can play legitimate point forward. batum will skyrocket this team, and give drumond all the room he needs to dominate inside along with smith. batum also can play SG and him and jennigs is deadly. it would be the best trade and portland must be thinking about giving LA some help inside, or if LA acctually wants to leave, it would make sence to replace him and cut salary. 

  • Nov 10, 201312:59 pm
    by Jens

    Reply

    What do you think of the following trades with Boston?
    1. Moose, Jennings, Stuckey, Villanueva  for Rondo, Green and Gerald Wallace
    2. Even more crazy:   Drummond, Jennings, Stuckey, Villanueva for Rondo, Green, Wallace and Bostons 1st pick 2014 
     
    I think they´d do 2 in a heartbeat, but I don´t like it cause Drummond might still turn out to be a top3 Player in this league. But trade 1 would be pretty cool…..

    • Nov 10, 20131:03 pm
      by mubin

      Reply

      the problem is rondo comming off acl, and your paying way too much. boston asked for monroe and knight for rondo and joe d denied it. nobody wants gerald wallaces contract. drummond is a superstar if given some room in the paint. 

      the problem with hareson barnes is that he isnt good enough of a shooter to make the difference. if GSW adds someone else and picks, im down with that. 

  • Nov 11, 20137:01 am
    by swish22

    Reply

    Agree with Patrick here looking at how Monroe is playing.   We need to lock him and Andre up long term and work on finding the right backcourt to help fascillitate the moving forward of this team.  It takes time to develop chemistry and five games certainly isn’t much time to do that.   The guards sijmply need to perform better and get us into offensive sets earlier with less dribbling.  The championship hopes in the future for the Pistons squarely rest on these two broad shoulders.  They’re both young and the future is bright for both!!  Hopefully Monroe can think team first when signing that contract instead of the me me me attitude that permeates our society. 

  • Nov 11, 20131:56 pm
    by Nothing new here

    Reply

    Seriously?  Trade Monroe?

    The Pistons need a Bruce Bowen type (lock down D and .400 three point threat who doesn’t dominate the ball on offense, but keeps defenses honest), not Carmelo Anthony. Greg Monroe is way too high a price to pay for that type of piece.

    Adding a star type player at SF would just create different chemistry issues.

  • Nov 11, 20138:09 pm
    by L BooG

    Reply

    Posts like this irk me… Could Monroe be a trade piece? Possibly. Would it make sense? Maybe, maybe not. He’s our best post player & it would only makes sense to trade him if we were getting a star in return which is highly unlikely. 

    The other thing is, why are we criticizing the team so much after just 5 games?? Do you guys not understand it takes teams time to gel??? Give it time people. Stop being so critical & negative. Give the team a chance to grow together. You’ll have a better sense of where the team is going & how good they could be by January…

    All the trade talk is silly to me at this point. Monroe will not get traded this season.  

    • Nov 12, 20135:39 am
      by sc8581

      Reply

      This team will not gel, it’s a disaster to be honest and not trading Monroe before the deadline would be the final nail in the coffin for Dumars.

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