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Pistons rally (again) only to fall (again) in loss at Portland

Detroit Pistons 103 FinalRecap | Box Score 109 Portland Trail Blazers
Greg Monroe, PF 37 MIN | 9-17 FG | 1-1 FT | 8 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 19 PTS | +3Pretty good effort from Monroe, who may have run out of gas late. Like it or not, he’s been the team’s most improved player this season. He’s not perfect, but when the offense ran through him, it looked good. It’s hard to knock him a ton defensively either, considering he helped contain LaMarcus Aldridge, who’s historically cooked the Pistons, to 8-of-19 shooting.
Josh Smith, SF 36 MIN | 4-9 FG | 2-3 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 11 PTS | -7For someone who’s been active on the boards all year long, Smith was a non-factor tonight. Shot selection wasn’t the problem — making shots was the problem. Nicolas Batum is a heckuva matchup for anyone, and Smith slowed him, but Batum still won this round with Smith. Smith’s best role in this offense is as a distributor. It’s just a matter of when he figures it out.
Andre Drummond, C 42 MIN | 8-9 FG | 0-2 FT | 16 REB | 2 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 16 PTS | -3Drummond came back strong after a lackluster couple of games. He rebounded, dunked and just did Andre Drummond things. His game is so elementary, but what he does, he does great. Heck, Maurice Cheeks even trusted him on the floor late in game, which is nice to see.
Brandon Jennings, PG 32 MIN | 11-24 FG | 5-5 FT | 4 REB | 5 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 28 PTS | -6Where to start? He’s the reason the Pistons made another late comeback, but he’s probably one of the main reasons they fell behind. He freelanced enough on defense to the point of legitimately having no idea where his man was at times. He used about 90 percent of his screens as avenues to the basket, rarely looking for the pop or roll man. He has glimpses of being a, ya know, point guard. But just as many glimpses of being the volume shooter that no one wants to play with.
Chauncey Billups, SG 14 MIN | 2-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 4 PTS | -4He’s looking his age, and it’s becoming more and more clear that his days starting are nearing an end. He definitely can still help this team, but trying to guard starting shooting guards isn’t that role. I’d bet, with Tuesday’s game at the Warriors being a back-to-back, he’ll sit while Kentavious Caldwell-Pope gets a shot.
Charlie Villanueva, PF 5 MIN | 1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -6So, you want to know how to “Villanueva” a game? First, come in and hoist up a 3-pointer immediately. Alright? But follow that up by just hovering around the 3-point line on defense, then miss a box out or two and come out of the game with two or so points points and a minus-6 plus/minus in five minutes. Charlie V’s season debut? Villanueva’d it.
Kyle Singler, SF 23 MIN | 0-2 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -5It’s hard to hate Singler when he plays hard. He does little things when his shot isn’t falling, and that’s good. Problem is his shot hasn’t fallen this season. He’s 2-for-12 from deep, and that has to change for the Pistons’ second unit to succeed — and for him to stick in the rotation.
Will Bynum, PG 16 MIN | 3-7 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 6 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 8 PTS | 0Typical game that makes you love, hate, then love again before eventually hating Bynum once again. When he’s out there, the team runs a little bit and he makes things happen. But he just wasn’t as big a spark against the Blazers. Plus, all the guards lose points for the massacre that was defending Mo Williams in the first half.
Rodney Stuckey, SG 34 MIN | 4-15 FG | 4-6 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 13 PTS | -2The shot wasn’t falling today — and, strangely, it has been recently — but he didn’t play a terrible game outside that. His block of a Joel Freeland dunk in the second half was really impressive, and during the Pistons’ fourth-quarter comeback, he shared the lead guard duties while Jennings playing off ball a bit.
Maurice Cheeks
Well, the Pistons’ defense wasn’t totally his fault, but boy was it bad enough to feel like it. I can’t even think of a joke to make about the team’s 3-point defense because the defense was the joke. It just didn’t seem like there were many, if any, adjustments on that end. Also, why play Charlie Villanueva? Honestly? If he was just going to shoot from deep, why not play Luigi Datome? This was another game where the team showed flashes, but as the coach, he has to start finding a way to capture those flashes. I did like that he shortened the rotation, but it’s still not a finished product. Until he figures out who can be the floor spacer — Caldwell-Pope? Datome? — then there are going to be some ups and downs. He needs the team to start playing defense before worrying about making 3-pointers, though.

78 Comments

  • Nov 12, 20131:18 am
    by Max

    Reply

    Charlie V’s plus minus could have swung the game.   The team stunk when he was on the court and the Pistons lost some separation.   

    • Nov 12, 20134:56 am
      by Max

      Reply

      In five minutes, Charlie V cost the team the minus 6 points they lost by.  

  • Nov 12, 20131:30 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    fire Mo Cheeks.. i want George Karl

    • Nov 12, 20132:14 pm
      by Turns

      Reply

      Karl is a great regular season coach but also very overrated in my opinion.  He has had some pretty good teams that he has not been able to win anything with.

  • Nov 12, 20131:33 am
    by Brandon Jennings

    Reply

    Brandon Jennings C- !!!!???? You’re a joke! Good night :)

    • Nov 12, 20131:57 am
      by anacaniwelk

      Reply

      No doubt.  C- is a joke.  Jennings played very well….again, but that goes against the Pistons Powered narrative so they have to belittle everything Jennings does. Pathetic.  How about Robin Lopez having his way against Drummond?  How about 2 more missed free throws for Drummond? Pistons couldn’t stop anyone.  Their defense has been bad all year and that includes Drummond. Cheeks and Dumars need to get this team playing defense. If this keeps up Charlotte may not be getting our pick this year.

      • Nov 12, 20132:06 am
        by frankie d

        Reply

        jennings played well?
        hardly.
        he was a big reason the team lost.
        24 shots?
        especially in a game when portland had no one…no one, to guard drummond.
        i was at the game tonight and it was funny, how easily drummond scored on portland.  it was almost anticlimatic because he was simply bigger and faster and quicker and no one could match up with him.
        did detroit exploit his advantage?
        did they …say…run high pick and rolls to put lopez in a position where he had to guard drummond in space?
        well….no…
        instead, they…and jennings, especially…made it easy on portland by shooting 24 freakin times when detroit had an unguardable mismatch on the interior.
        welcome to pistons’ BB 20013-14.
        get used to it. 

        • Nov 12, 20134:40 am
          by Some Dude

          Reply

          Jennings was the reason they lost? what are you on? Without his contributions the Pistons would have been beat a lot worse. He was one of the only guys, aside from Monroe getting any offense going. 
          Drummond did what Drummond does, and he did it great. But get him more involved? how? he doesn’t have an offensive game. What he did tonight was his limit. And you don’t think Portland’s game-plan was to watch out for Drummond lobs? teams are taking that away from him. So they couldn’t get much more out of Drummond than what they got.
          And obviously this team is still finding itself. And it will probably take a good 20 games to find it. They have a lot of work to do, but as long as they show some fight without getting blown out things are ok. Their defense is the biggest issue here, so they better correct it fast. 

          • Nov 12, 20134:54 am
            by Max

            Some dude is right.  The offense was not the problem tonight.   They aren’t having nearly as hard a time scoring as some here are making it out.   I thought the offense would be uglier than it has been this season but I also thought the defense would be much better.  

          • Nov 12, 20139:32 am
            by sebastian

            Some Dude writes: as long as they show some fight without getting blown out things are ok.
            I would have to disagree with your notion that having fewer points than OUR opponent at the end of the game is “ok”.

          • Nov 12, 20139:33 am
            by sebastian

            I forgot to add: “You play to win the game!” -Herman Edwards

        • Nov 12, 20138:54 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          @ Frankie…
           
          He was attacking the defense…. Portland was defending the roll man…you dont force assist in that situation…his only other choice is to kick it out on the perimeter to Josh Smith
           
          Jennings adjusted….and attack the rim…i’ll take that shots that he missed at the rim….he’s attacking and not settling
           
          The Problem is he has no shooters in the game to stretch the offense, so it forces Josh Smith to take 3′s……
           
          Stuckey is good for maybe 1 or 2 corner 3′s… , Singler and Billups have been ice cold, Datome isnt in the rotation, and Charlie…well need i say more…
           

          • Nov 12, 201312:44 pm
            by frankie d

            Was at the game.  On most of those “pick and rolls” jennings did not even look for the dive man.  He just turned the corner and headed right to the rim.  It was less a p&r and more a pick for jennings at the top of the circle.
            Sorry, but he is just out there hunting shots.  Instead of looking to set up the offense he looks for his own shot and if he cannot get his shot he dribbles around and passes the ball to anyone, often putting that player in an awkward position.
            There is a reason nba teams use the heck out of p&r plays:  used correctly, it can set up a whole range of good options.  When you do what jennings and detroit are doing now, a team wastes huge opportunities.
            Detroit needed to get slow-a@@ lopez out in space on the p&r, get him in foul trouble cause he cant stay with drummond out there, and then they would have been sble to pound pdx down low.  
            Jennings made it easy for them.
            Dumb BB.
             

        • Nov 12, 20139:16 am
          by Danny

          Reply

          Dude took 6 shots in 4 mins of the game.  Again shooting way more than he needs to and especially after the press conference where he discussed how he needed to change his game.  Don’t even get me started on defense, dude saw a screen and made no attempt to fight over it or at least go under.  Several plays during pick n roll where Jennings just walked up to the screener and put on an act as if he ran into it. 
           
          Mo needs to take him out during those periods and have someone else run the point.

          • Nov 12, 20139:27 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            that silly….
            you dont pass up shots at the rim… no matter the position….
            you guys are getting caught up in your emotions…
             
             

  • Nov 12, 20131:50 am
    by David

    Reply

    Done watching until Rodney Fuckface is gone. 

    • Nov 12, 20132:03 am
      by Otis

      Reply

      Ok then. See you next season at the absolute earliest. The only trade that makes sense for Stuckey (assuming he’s not thrown into a bigger trade to make salaries match) is for some kind of pick. Nobody is giving you any positional upgrades for him, and Joe is highly unlikely to capitalize on his trade value if it means taking even half a step backwards. Joe is looking out for one thing right now: His job. He’ll gladly sacrifice the future by standing pat and allowing valuable trade chips expire in the hopes of clutching at a pointless and embarrassing playoff appearance.

      • Nov 12, 20139:34 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        I love how Mr. 100,000 trade possibilities for Monroe thinks there is one possibility for Stuckey.  Whatever works for your argument I guess.  Why wouldn’t you assume he could be in a bigger trade to make salaries match?  Is there some reason why JJ, Singler, CV, Bynum wouldn’t be packaged with him for a talent upgrade?  Besides this game Stuckey has had a solid start to the season and is on an expiring contract…he is a possible trade option.
         
        You really think Joe D would absolutely not trade Stuckey because there is no possibility that the team gets better after the trade and his job hinges on the added wins from keeping him?

        • Nov 12, 201312:19 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          God damn, man. I’m not sure where some of this ridiculousness comes from.
           
          Monroe is a quality big man and a low post scorer. Those are hard to find and very valuable commodities. There are very few straight up trades that are likely to make sense, but there are plenty of packages that would make sense in trading Monroe. Rarely do young bigs like him hit the open market, and rarely is a team so replete with big men that they’re compelled to trade one, so when you’re trading away size and that kind of player, you can get a lot back. You could certainly get a starting caliber SG or SF for him, probably sweetened with a pick too, because that’s just how it works.
           
          Stuckey, on the other hand, is a flawed, pretty average combo guard. These guys are an ABSOLUTE dime a dozen. He’s got good size and he’s strong, but he’s a poor shooter (don’t be fooled by his early .571%) and he’s been a maddeningly inconsistent throughout his disappointing career. The only teams that might trade for him are basically taking a flyer and most likely just trying to add some talent for a future asset. NOBODY is giving you any kind of positional upgrade for him. How in the heck are you going to get an upgrade at PG, SG, SF (and forget about bigs) for him? It’s just prohibitively unlikely because of his value. He is the prototypical player who gets traded for a speculative pick.
           
          Likewise, no I don’t think you can package him with other mediocre players and get an upgrade. Heck, look at Jennings. He’s better than Stuckey, but he was only good for cheaper, downgraded talent. Nobody was going to give Milwaukee a better player for someone like Jennings. It does not happen. Call me crazy, but let’s check back in February and see how it went, yeah? Maybe there’s some good player on a bad contract we can get our hands on, but do you even want to see that?
           
          And yes, I do not think Joe would trade ANYONE for the purposes of being better in the future if it means taking even a minuscule step backwards this season. Why do you think he gave away a first round pick to dump Ben Gordon? For the good of the team?? Ha! That’s a laugh. Joe is on an expiring contract, and he is completely and totally desperate to improve NOW. Has been for several seasons, but this time his contract is up. They would need to be mathematically eliminated for him to do anything of the sort, and even then he probably doesn’t because he’s so desperate to foster the illusion that this team is headed in the right direction. Book it.

          • Nov 12, 201312:57 pm
            by Huddy

            You are confusing the argument. Stuckey obviously wouldn’t net the same kind of talent Monroe would.  I am at no point saying Stuckey can be moved in a 1-1 deal for a better player.  My point is it is insane to act like there are “plenty” of options for Monroe and very few for Stuckey.  They are different caliber and would bring different caliber players back.  You continually argue that you would take 75 cents on the dollar back on Monroe in order to shore up your argument that trading him is a good idea, which opens up the possibilities more and makes your argument easier.  Since Stuckey’s on an expiring deal and his production indicates that starting caliber talent isn’t necessary for another team to send back this way there are “plenty” of options to move him as well.  Both players have + and – for their trade value.  As valuable a player as Monroe is and as much as you ignore it, Monroe is a FA in a matter of months that can be had without giving the Pistons added assets.  In addition solid draft picks are a hot commodity because of the quality of the draft making it less likely to be thrown in for a player rental that can be had in FA.  Contenders might want to add him for a run, but their are very few real contenders and those would have to be able to maintain their level of talent while still giving the Pistons enough to make it work.  Stuckey is on an expiring deal and is capable enough to come of many benches…no star is coming over in that deal and that is fine.
            It also makes little sense to keep disputing peoples arguments about what they think the club should so with what you think Joe Dumars would do.  You can stop ranting about a Monroe trade (and we can just see you next season) if no one is allowed to suggest anything that you don’t think Joe Dumars would do.  Should everyone just reply to every point you make about moving Monroe with “Joe D wouldn’t do that”?  Who cares if you think Joe D wouldn’t move Stuckey.  Whether he gets equal or lesser value it would be a positive move to free up time for the team’s rookie, help floor spacing, and have a new option or pick for the team going forward.

          • Nov 12, 20131:12 pm
            by Huddy

            in regards to the packaging of players-
            Jennings netted two young players and saved the Bucks salary space for a player that wasn’t working for their team, if the Pistons could move Stuckey for less talented players with potential or even later draft picks with potential that would be a positive move.  Stuckey, CV, JJ, Singler, Siva, Mitchell, Bynum…that is a lot of combinations with a wide array of possibilities.  just as an example Wilson Chandler is making nearly 7.5 mil a season for another 3 years and the Nuggets are already paying Gallinari similar money to be their starting SF.  The Nuggets could use the added cap space coming off the books of Stuckey to improve in FA, could add Singler as a capable young and cheap back up, and could have Stuckey to strengthen their SG position where they currently start Randy Foye shooting below 40% this year with little talent.

          • Nov 12, 20131:39 pm
            by Otis

            Huddy, there are “options” to trade Stuckey, but none that will net a better player if Stuckey is the main piece you’re moving. What you just said about Stuckey netting us less talented players and picks? That’s exactly what I’m talking about and exactly the kind of trade I don’t foresee Dumars pulling the trigger on. He’d rather inch forward at the expense of the future than improve the team’s outlook at the expense of one win this season. It’s just how it is. All the players you named could indeed be involved in a number of intriguing trades, just not trades that are going to really help this team now.
             
            If you think Wilson Chandler at 7.5 million for the next three years is going to get this team over the hump (considering that takes care of all our cap space this summer), then I’ll concede you could probably pull that trade off. But that’s about the extend of the kind of moves you could do, and it cost you Singler, who was the real sweetener on that insanely cap friendly contract. But yeah, if your idea of helping the team is capping us out to add Wilson Chandler at the expense of Singler, who makes like 1/5 as much then you’re basically making my point for me.
             
            A trade of Monroe accomplishes a lot of different things. Shift Smith to PF, make room for an actual SF to play, open up the lane for Drummond dunks. It balances things out and gives the team a balanced makeover. Yes, you’re taking the risk that he goes and has a great career somewhere else, but that beats the alternative of stubbornly sticking with a failing formula just because you don’t have the guts to make a bold move.

          • Nov 12, 20132:09 pm
            by Huddy

            @Otis I don’t disagree with you about the potential that your proposed Monroe trade brings.  Monroe for a SF and a pick (or SG etc.) balances the team saves max money depending on the player acquired and makes the team look like a contender (maybe equivalent to a pacers, which again depends on who is added).  My disagreement is with how possible the trade is.  I think a moving Monroe would likely net a less than stellar sg/sf (mostly because their are so few good ones) and a toss up draft pick…and thats if there was even a partner who was in the market given Monroe’s availability in Free Agency in the summer.  Adding a good sg-sf and a good pick seems like more of a dream scenario than a obvious decision that the organization is refusing to make IMO.  The likelihood of the trade is something I don’t think we will match up on regardless.  I am having a hard time thinking of an example of a trade like this where rookie scale contract is traded before their extension and what was given back (aside from Jenning’s which shows why other teams would hold off on a trade, but isn’t a good example because of the difference in potential of the two players). 
             
            I personally like the Chandler option.  My reasoning is partially over who is being added in FA next year with the cap space anyway.  Short of Deng I don’t see a more impact SF option and Deng is probably asking too much capwise.  If Chandler could produce like last year for the Nuggets (13ppg 46% fg 41% 3p 5 rbs 22mpg) I think he is a perfect fit.  Shooting, size, defense, athleticism…things Singler has been worse at(albeit much cheaper).  13 and 5 with good shooting%s is a real impact off the bench, floor spacing, and solidifies the defense throughout the game.  He could spend some time at SG and probably be on the floor 25+ mpg.  The team with Chandler and without Stuckey/Singler would require contribution from KCP that he has yet to have the opportunity to show he can make, but it is just a theory.  If the team is keeping Monroe/Smith/Drummond the biggest need is a SF/SG that can play big minutes of the bench, shoot the ball well and play defense.

          • Nov 12, 20132:19 pm
            by Max

            Otis is insanely narrow minded and uses the most cynical conjecture and Pistonscentric pessimism when he offers his speculation, and it’s nothing more than his speculation, that he knows Joe Dumars’ intentions and mindset as well as all of the other GMs in the league.   He really has no idea what he talking about but manically repeats his points with the stridency of a religious zealot fighting a holy war.  The silliest aspect of everything he is saying here is that everything he says ignores the number of lopsided trades that don’t make objective sense to the majority of people who follow the league that occur.   He thinks because he has assessed the talent in his own mind that others can’t have assessed things differently. 
            For those who have any sanity: Stuckey and any other player in the league’s trade value does not hinge on a section of a fanbase that is disappointed in him but rather on what 30 individual GMs and subordinates think of him while also taking in the particulars of their situation.   This means that if even one team in the league were to have an opinion that differed from the other teams and had a situation that Stuckey fit into they may be willing to vastly overpay for him relative to what the disappointed Pistons’ fanbase thinks of him.   There are no monolithic consensus opinions of players in the NBA and when Otis acts like there are he proves that he has no idea how things in the NBA work.  
             

          • Nov 12, 20132:58 pm
            by Max

            On a more serious note, I think of the particulars of the Jennings Knight trade as having less to do with Jennings absolute trade value than of the value of Dumars relationship with John Hammonds.  

          • Nov 12, 20133:39 pm
            by Otis

            @Huddy: Let me reiterate that I advocated trading Monroe this summer. I think plenty of teams would have been salivating over the chance to present him to their fans as the summer’s big catch. I never held out very much hope for a Monroe-Drummond pairing after seeing them in action together, and I think Smith made that situation even worse. So I would have sucked it up and traded him this summer, and I think there would have been a considerable bidding war, expiring contract and all. It’s worth remembering that you’re trading his Bird rights as well, so whoever he’s with at the end of the season can match any offer.
             
            Still, I think there would be interest. Have you seen how madly in love most of Detroit is with this guy? He’s a valuable commodity, and whoever gets him can be sure to keep him. So if they’re waiting until he hits free agency, they’re going to have little or no chance to grab him. Players like this don’t become available very often, because it’s not very often that two top five talents, who happen to both be centers, fall into someone’s lap in semi-consecutive drafts. So if there’s a team that covets Monroe, their only chance of landing him is a trade.
             
            Chandler would be a good add, but considering that (A) I emphatically do not believe that this jumbo lineup is going to be the foundation of a contender, and in fact it’s looked like more of a liability than anything so far, and (B) the longer you wait, the less value Monroe has, it just seems like the best course of action to pull the trigger and get the kind of assets that will help you build a solvent roster now and into the foreseeable future. Which means good talent at bargain prices. If you take back a starting caliber wing player and a pick, you’re helping the team on the floor and contributing to a formula for sustainable success.

  • Nov 12, 20131:52 am
    by Otis

    Reply

    Okay… here’s what I don’t get. You indicate that Cheeks needs to find “the” floor spacer? Heck are you talking about? You need lots of floor spacers, and it’s Joe Dumars’ job to find them. Oops. If you’re building a basketball team, you’re much better off having a loaded perimeter and no inside presence whatsoever than having three big post players and no perimeter whatsoever. Cheeks and whoever else can use the cop out about “Sometimes your shots fall, sometimes they don’t. Tonight they didn’t fall,” but you just plain don’t have the shooting to EVER expect that the shots are going to fall enough. Considering that the only proven 3-point shooter we added came in exchange for a comparable shooter, we didn’t add any reliable shooting at all. In fact, we might actually have ended up with a net loss in shooting if you consider Khris Middleton’s absence.
     
    Once again the score was close, but there was never a point when the Pistons looked like they were in control. Portland never let it get close enough to really sweat. The only loss so far where it looked like the Stones had a real shot was the Memphis game where they led by five with under a minute to go, and all that really proved is how weak this team really is when push comes to shove.
     
    Literally the one thing I like is a shortened rotation. I don’t even like the rotation very much, and I’m getting weary of this ninth man who plays single digit spot minutes and predictably provides nothing, but keeping the rotation basically down to eight guys is ideal. It’s a start, and as much as I think Cheeks is a complete dud and a sure failure almost as soon as he took over, I do at least appreciate his aversion to these awful 10-11 man rotations we’ve been forced to endure for the last five years.

    • Nov 12, 20131:58 am
      by Otis

      Reply

      PS: Chauncey looked like his old self in game one and has looked awful ever since. Truly and convincingly very very awful. Like, as happy as I was that he came back, I’m dreading this situation. His value on the floor, if he has any left at all, is in managing close games in crunch time. And if we want to keep him in that role, and especially if we want to keep him happy, he needs to be in the rotation. But at what point do we accept that he’s a liability? I mean, it’s still early in the season, but this team doesn’t look anywhere near ready to start winning. So what to do? Keep him in the rotation ahead of someone like KCP who could probably help now and will certainly help in the future? It’s already getting a little uncomfortable. I just want him to be coach starting tomorrow.

    • Nov 12, 20135:13 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      In that Memphis game Stuckey & KCP were the giards that got them over. Then Cheeks happened

    • Nov 12, 20139:47 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Khris Middleton gets to count as a loss of shooting ability despite a 31% 3p% with the Pistons and Datome (40% shooting over multiple years in euro league), Billups and KCP count for nothing?  If you are going to stick with your “proven” argument I would leave Middleton out of it.  I realize you said might, but if you are going to dismiss arguments for the guys I mentioned above…you don’t get a might.
       
      Totally agree on Chauncey.  KCP needs to be in the starting line up now.  He needs a chance to grow and there is enough talent on the starting line up that he doesn’t need to take on much pressure, just be a kick out option and defender.  I think part of the issue with Chauncey is that he still thinks he ready for big minutes and might lose value all together if he is frustrated with only end of game facilitating.  I would prefer we make the team and its up and coming assets the priority over managing his happiness at the end of his career though.

      • Nov 12, 201312:34 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        So don’t give me a “might.” Who gives a shit? I don’t. I gave you an option to consider him or not, so don’t act like you’ve poked some gaping hole in my argument because you don’t count him. It was an afterthought. Jeez.
         
        But to answer your question: No. Joe doesn’t get credit for adding proven shooting. He didn’t do it. You act like Chauncey was some great prize, but he’s looked like a heinous liability since the season opener. And adding two rookies who proved it in other leagues but not the NBA? To quote Chris Elliott quoting Shania Twain: That don’t impress-a me much. What about someone who’s actually done it in this league? You can’t trumpet the need for shooting and then trot out this lot like a prize pig as if you did your job. Give me a break.

  • Nov 12, 20135:27 am
    by mythx

    Reply

    The more I see of this team the more worried I am that they have actually “improved”. The talent is there but i see zero chemistry so far.  Thats why I think Chauncey is still starting because I think they believe he will help with that, and they want the outside shooting. But really he is ineffective against starting 2′s at this stage. I think they need to move to Pope at the 2 (ready or not) and take advantage of the fact that he is an active defender. Hopefully the shooting will come around.  Move Chauncey to the backup PG roll and pair him with Stuckey. Bynum at this point is just a less talented Jennings with all the same flaws. I think once they clear up the guard rotation that some of the other issues will clear up as well. No need to play Charlie at all, same really for Jonas .Neither offers anything the team needs at this point other than erratic shooting. They will have to work with keeping 2 of three frontcourt starters on the floor at all times with Singler worked in . And I would try to use Mitchell if someone gets into early foul trouble as he seems to be an active rebounder.
     

  • Nov 12, 20138:23 am
    by Steve K

    Reply

    Since the encouraging first three games, this team has regressed while playing, admittedly, above-average opponents. They’re not getting blown out, but they’re not winning either. This team, right now, is just good enough to stay competitive.

    That’s a step up from last year, but it’s also the worst case scenario with regard to the draft.

    The most disturbing aspect of the Pistons’ game right now is the defense. This is not acceptable on a team with rim protectors like Josh Smith and Andre Drummond. Monroe also has shown improved quickness on D. Yet, as a team, the Pistons can’t shut anybody down.
    Part of the problem is chemistry. And part of it is coaching. I’m not enamored with this rotation. Cheeks has given tons of minutes to Stuckey, and he’s shown moments of brilliance. But last night was a return to form. He sucks at finishing, and he can’t hit the 3.

    The team was more fun to watch with Bynum, Billups, and KCP as the three guard rotation. They miss Jennings’ scoring ability, but the B-B-KCP rotation had a more defined role. They leaned heavily on the big men. They’d pass the ball to either Monroe or Smith in the post. That slowed the game down (admittedly resulted in turnovers), but played more to the teams’ strengths. I’m hopeful that Jennings can integrate himself into the offense, but he’ll have to simply be a smarter player. I’m not sure that’s likely.

    • Nov 12, 201312:41 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Yeah I think your assessment is close. If I had to nitpick, I get what you’re saying about them being competitive, but I haven’t gotten the feeling that they’re really IN these games, even the close ones. Back in the day I’d have seen the Pistons fight back and get four consecutive stops and think they were going to close it out. Not so with this team. They’re keeping the score closer than it should be, but these opponents don’t really look uncomfortable. Even in the Memphis game that we coughed up in the last minute, Memphis looked cool as a cucumber down the stretch.

      • Nov 12, 20132:28 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        So you’re judging the team based on their opponent’s body language?  HAHAHAHAHAHA
        The Grizz were in the conference finals last year…..their body language shouldn’t be effected by a close early regular season game regardless of outcome. 

        • Nov 12, 20132:49 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          I guess if Billups had hit one free throw in the last minute which would have absolutely sealed the game for the Pistons and offered the Grizz no way to come back that we would have seen them fall apart with heavy sighs, crying and maybe even Gasol sinking to the floor like Bosh exiting that game in the finals the Heat lost.  

  • Nov 12, 20138:41 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    i know the rating or grading system is all for fun, and we’ve gone over it a thousand times about how different writer grade differently…
    So just for fun!
    HOW THE HELL!
    Jenning get a C – ?
    He pretty much equaled to out played Lillard…especially in the 2nd half…he kept the Pistons in the game late, and gave us a shot at the game with a minute left only down 4 …when we were down 14 points with 3-4 minutes left…he finished with 28 pts 5ast 3stl!!!  thats a C -????
    stuckey gets C+ but played like crap in the 2nd half he went 1-5 0r 0-6….just driving to draw fouls….(once again Jenning went 4-7 in the 4th qrt)
    singler gets a C- for playing hard? how about make some shots?
    Bynum…C was 3-7 shooting and played horrible defense …again!!! cant keep his man in front him…

    • Nov 12, 201310:11 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      24 shots is too many…after that I am confused as well.  Nobody on the team has been shooting well (besides Stuckey and he had a poor shooting night) and I think that accounts for some of Jenning’s shots.  Monroe took a solid 17 shots, which is a good number for him.  Drummond could have more, but he is so limited that if the pick and roll is cheating to him there aren’t many good shots for him to take that aren’t put backs.  Smith took a low number, but typically if you add 5-7 more shots to his total from last night we are looking at ill advised 3s.

    • Nov 12, 201311:01 am
      by Danny

      Reply

      you’re letting your emotions get to the best of you.  24 shots is way too much and especially for someone who isn’t hitting.  Wonder if cheecks will use him as an off guard at times and have billups run the point.

      • Nov 12, 201311:28 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        “someone who isn’t hitting”…he shot 46% for the game, which is a good shooting percentage for a guard.  46% is also higher than everyone else on the team except Monroe and Andre (both of whom are only hitting shots within 1-5 ft).  Should he have distributed the ball more…maybe, and maybe everyone would have all of the sudden started shooting better (despite poor shooting for almost everyone thus far in the season).
         
        I would have liked to see Smith make more of an impact, but at the same time theres about a 50/50 chance if he takes more shots from Jennings they are as low or lower percentage than what Jennings did.  Someone else has to be able to shoot the ball before we can be too critical of guys not passing it to them.  Lillard had a similar game (with worse shooting %), but he got the W because almost everyone on his team was hitting 50%+ on their shots, he had 10 more points from his bench, and his team was respectable from 3.
         
        Theres a good chance that if Jennings takes 8 shots off his total and distributes that to his poor shooting team mates he gets a better grade on here and the team loses by more.

        • Nov 12, 201312:47 pm
          by Danny

          Reply

          Oh yeah sorry I need to forgive him for one game where he scored effectively.  When we have the advantage down low I think he should dumb the ball and work from the inside.  But then again what do I know. 

          • Nov 12, 20131:17 pm
            by Huddy

            “the one game where he scored effectively”…yeah this one that the article is talking about and that the specific grade the whole conversation is based on came from.

          • Nov 12, 20132:54 pm
            by Max

            Huddy is right on.   The grade and arguments against Jennings are due to the prejudice against Jennigns and he’s not being given a chance–at least when he is judged by a loss.   Nobody ever had a problem with Michael Jordan going 10-24 or worse and he put up like shooting stats on many an occasion.  Jennings had a very good game offensively last night.  That said, the criticism of Jennings’ defense is valid.

          • Nov 12, 20133:16 pm
            by Huddy

            Yeah its not about averaging 25 shots a game, that is an obvious bad choice on a team with so many options for scoring.  In a single game where the majority of players can’t hit a shot I would prefer allowing the player with the hot hand to continue to score. 

        • Nov 12, 20134:19 pm
          by Danny

          Reply

          Yes when people can’t score I would resort to the hot hand as well.  How can people score when someone dominates the ball and shoots too much?  Controlling the game is another facet of the point not just points.  His defense and utilization of his team were piss poor is all im trying to say.  Yes he scored a lot of points, more effectively too.  That being said it still doesn’t change the fact that he is not keeping his team mates involved when we have a moster front line. 

    • Nov 12, 201312:26 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      24 shoots is too much but he did make a respectable 46% of those shots, offensively I would give him a B- however defensively his gambling caused his man to get a lot of wide open looks and for that I give him an F defensively.  So personally I think a C- is a fair grade if not generous.

      • Nov 12, 201312:39 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        24 shots are a lot if you are jacking he jacking….hell l say he should have went to the line like 5-7 more times with huh he he was attacking the rim…

        • Nov 12, 201312:52 pm
          by Danny

          Reply

          Going to the line doesn’t mean you are attacking the rim, it happens more when you do.  I’m trying to say he is average 18 shots a game and not even hitting at 40% dude needs to calm down.  When he gets to the whole he has options of throwing lobs when ppl crash but he just puts up a horrible shot, going left. 

  • Nov 12, 20139:56 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    Looks like my theory on Munroe versus Smith shot attempts is not failproof.
     
    However in my defense I did not expect Josh Smith to check out of the game, (no rebounds in the second half ) but simply shoot a little bit less. Also I did not expect Jennings to take his spot as the number one chucker.
    I’m not saying Jennings played bad, but I still feel he should go for 11 assists rather than 24 shots, even though I understand a lot of those shots came at the end when he wis trying to get the team back into the game.
    but now it’s even more clear that what it all boils down to his defense on the wings with the shooting guard such as KCP. You have a big three that plays good ball – Jennings, drummond, and Monroe, and you still lose, that’s a problem with defense.
    And if you know how basketball works, you can’t blame it all on the frontline. The bigs are consistently out of position because the guards keep getting broken down. And you don’t even need to mention the three-pointers.
    I wonder if the coaching staff will ever get a clue, the best solution is sitting right on the bench because he’s a Rookie.

    • Nov 12, 201312:10 pm
      by gtg2013

      Reply

      “…I did not expect Josh Smith to check out of the game, (no rebounds in the second half ) but simply shoot a little bit less. Also I did not expect Jennings to take his spot as the number one chucker…”
       
      That was my impression, too: When Jennings took over, Smith checked out. I don’t know if it’s cause and effect, but still. This does not bode well for the future.

      • Nov 12, 201312:21 pm
        by jamesjones_det

        Reply

        Smith showed his hand last night if you ask me, when him and Jennings were running two man with under two minutes to go Smith got doubled by Jennings man and Smith played with the ball instead of passing back.
         
        Smith is thinking about Smith and no one else, he wasn’t getting his shots so he basically started pouting in the corner.

    • Nov 12, 201312:12 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      I’m not sold on KCP, he hasn’t proven he can shoot with any constancy and he’s not a threat to drive the ball (yes he got a couple lucky drives against Memphis but that’s not something he can do night in night out).
       
      All that being said I would take KCP over Bynum running down the floor and jacking up a guaranteed brick but KCP isn’t going to save this team.  This team needs a real outside scoring threat and that player does not exist on this roster.

      • Nov 12, 20132:35 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        KCP has only played in 3/6 games and is 2/5 from 3…both makes being in the last two games he played in and all three misses coming in his first professional game ever.  KCP hasn’t proven or dis-proven anything…he hasn’t been given a chance despite the poor play/fit of those getting minutes above him.

  • Nov 12, 201310:10 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    The whole league knows by now that the pistons cannot shoot, or defend threes, and they obviously game plan accordingly. Stefan Curry Clay Thompson and Andre Iguodala are probably daydreaming about three-point  records right now.
    Yet the 6 foot 6 and six-foot 8 wing players that are known for being smart and aggressive defensively, and above average three-point shooters are not getting a chance to get consistent minutes and get into a groove and get their confidence.
     

  • Nov 12, 201310:21 am
    by Huddy

    Reply

    Shooting is becoming an issue.  It is still early, but Singler, Datome, Billups, KCP…these guys (in some combination) need to have more of an impact (obviously not all got a chance this game, but in general).  At the end of the day a team with this inside presence needs to concentrate on being able to win games where the offense scores 100+.
     
    The most striking things from this game IMO are Lopez 17 pts 7-10 shooting and Williams 17 pts 7-9 shooting.  That is unacceptable.  The team relatively contains Aldridge, lets Lillard get his, but allows Lopez/Williams to have a 34pt (highly efficient) impact on the game??  Lopez should be an easy mark on D for the piston’s front line.  As far as guard play goes, KCP needs to be in the rotation so Billups and Bynum aren’t allowed to make no offensive impact AND act as an open door on defense.  If Rodney had more time defending PGs and KCP was in at the 2 the team could easily be reducing its points against.  Jennings had a poor defensive showing, but really had to pick up the slack on offense.  If Bynum/Billups are countering poor defense with better offense..then leave them in, but don’t let Mo Williams beat the team off the bench because we are hoping to see a Bynum to Andre lob.

    • Nov 12, 20131:48 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      This is it:
      “ As far as guard play goes, KCP needs to be in the rotation so Billups and Bynum aren’t allowed to make no offensive impact AND act as an open door on defense.  If Rodney had more time defending PGs and KCP was in at the 2 the team could easily be reducing its points against.”

  • Nov 12, 201311:44 am
    by joe

    Reply

    If the Pistons gonna trade somebody by the deadline, I hope it’s J. Smith and not Monroe. I think Smith  at this point is the better player, but the Pistons will never win a championship with Smith, because of his bad habits. I know people think Jennings jack up shots but the difference between Jennings and Smith is, when Jennings jacking up shots, he’s trying to win the game, but when Smith jack up shots, it’s because he’s being lazy. I’m not talking about the shots when Smith is opening, I’m talking about the shots when he got an defender on him.

    • Nov 12, 201312:46 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Smith does not have much value relative to his contract right now. If the Pistons are motivated to trade him, they’ll likely just end up being able to dump him, but they won’t get back much. That’s for sure. Moose, on the other hand, would fetch a king’s ransom. All things being equal, I understand the preference for trading Smith, but Monroe is the trade chip that’s going to being back IMPROVEMENTS for the team. It would be nearly impossible to trade Smith and make the team better. Due to his value and these chemistry issues, I think you could trade Moose and end up with a better overall team now and in the future.

      • Nov 12, 20132:38 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Otis knows the value of every player in the league and what they will fetch in a trade.  In fact, he sets the market price daily in his room like the Rothschilds set the price of gold in their bank.  

        • Nov 12, 20137:02 pm
          by joe dumars

          Reply

          You really seem to have a hard on for dumping on Otis. I don’t think he’s necessarily wrong. Interest in Smith from other teams seem to wane after his meeting with the Pistons because of money. I don’t think he has a favorable contract, and he even said signing with the Pistons was the only choice he had.

          • Nov 12, 20139:34 pm
            by Max

            Otis dumps on every nearly every person he replies to whether he openly bashes them, acts angry with them or smugly assumes superiority.  On this issue he’s not necessarily wrong but he’s not not necessarily right either and expresses himself as if there is no possible way the team could be improved if Josh Smith were traded.  Everyone who follows basketball has seen many a trade where a player was traded and a team gets more than they bargained for.  Remember Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atikins.   
            As to your point, a player’s  options in free agency when most teams are above the cap is more limited than a team’s ability to trade any contract in the league.   How many teams this summer could have signed Smith outright for his fair market value?–whatever that is.   Of these teams, how many signed someone else or had no need for his position?  At the end of the day, how many teams could Dwight Howard or whoever was the top free agent in any free agent year have signed for and received their fair market value?    Interest in Smith didn’t only have to do with his meeting the Pistons.   The Rockets and Warriors were largely the market for him but they got Dwight and Iggy.  The market in free agency dries up fast.  The options are always limited.
            When making a trade, there are 29 other teams and only one of those teams has to value your player or package enough to both be willing to pay his contract and send back something you want in a trade.  
            If your point is that Smith isn’t a valued and desirable player by any GM or organization other than Joe Dumars and the Pistons than I wholly disagree with you but I don’t think that’s what your saying as you merely said you don’t think Otis is necessarily wrong and Smith doesn’t have a favorable contract.  You seem reasonable to me and I agree with you if that’s all your saying on the actual basketball subject at hand.    
             

  • Nov 12, 201312:00 pm
    by Javell

    Reply

    KCP!

    • Nov 12, 20133:56 pm
      by T Casey

      Reply

      Would be nice. Apparently, here in Detroit, we only play our draft busts big minutes like Darko and Amir while our quality picks ride the pine until we have no choice but to play them a la Prince, Monroe, and now KCP.

  • Nov 12, 201312:08 pm
    by jamesjones_det

    Reply

    Jennings, Stuckey, Smith and Cheeks deserve F’s.  Their constant gambling on the defensive end is what give Portland the majority of their wide open 3s (Cheeks for allowing it to continue). 
     
    This team gambles way too much on defense, they’ve seemed to get the TO problem under control, lets hope they can get the defensive gambling under control.

  • Nov 12, 201312:17 pm
    by gtg2013

    Reply

    I think Vincent Goodwill at the News is having some fun with Cheeks. Look for the Cheeks quotes in this article, and contrast them with Goodwill’s preceding paragraphs:
    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131112/SPORTS0102/311120036/1127/Inconsistent-defense-burns-Pistons-loss-Trail-Blazers
     

    • Nov 12, 20131:58 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      lol.
      i know people talk about armchair coaches and GMs, but man, some things are so obvious. Like Drummond last year, Rick Carlisle keeping Tayshaun on the bench… now KCP on the bench in favor of 4 vet point guards… even though he performed great against Memphis.
      Iguodala was my FA choice over Smith… look what he’s doing for Golden state. Taking smart shots and playing stifling defense on the perimeter. Yeah hes getting older, but Smith doesn’t seem to be getting any smarter…

      • Nov 12, 20133:42 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        If Dumars was DEAD SET on building around Moose and Drummond, he absolutely 100% should have pursued Iguodala and avoided Smith at all costs. It’s not even close.

        • Nov 12, 20139:38 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          I agree with Otis on this and wanted Iggy above all even if he had to be overpaid.  Iggy has everything Smith is missing on the court other than a good enough 3 point pct to be an perfect pairing with Drummond and Monroe.   I’ll always take close to perfect.  

  • Nov 12, 20132:43 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    I MISS THESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nov 12, 20133:49 pm
    by T Casey

    Reply

    I can’t believe people are talking about moving Monroe right now. He’s been our smartest, most efficient scorer so far and has shown a lot of improvement in his defense, rebounding, and just overall game. I’d go so far as to say that offensively, he’s is much of what’s keeping the Pistons together right now as someone has to offset Jennings and Smith’s inefficiency. Ignoring Jennings’ stat line the last two games, we haven’t looked any better out there on the court with him than we did without him to begin the season. Although some of that may be because his replacement, Bynum, was playing out of his mind in the stretch where he was starting.
    Right now our biggest concern is our guardplay. The guys on the court don’t shoot well and they don’t defend the perimeter well either. Some of that is remediable with better coaching, like putting in our better perimeter defenders and focusing more on proper perimeter rotations in practice so they’re not constantly rotating wrong.

  • Nov 12, 20134:55 pm
    by haydzzz

    Reply

    how does jennings get the same grade as singled and smith (who did nothing) and lower than stuckey ??

    • Nov 12, 20135:36 pm
      by T Casey

      Reply

      I wasn’t able to catch the game myself, but it sounds like Jennings’ performance was a lot like his game against OKC where he played well late, but stunk it up quite a bit early which offsets some of his better play score wise.

      • Nov 12, 20136:13 pm
        by haydzzz

        Reply

        I watched the game and have no idea how scoring 28 points and 13 in the 4th gets a C-.. when singler did nothing on offence and was horrible on defense.

        • Nov 12, 201310:18 pm
          by T Casey

          Reply

          I agree that a C- may a bit low, but I understand the reasoning for it. Obviously I can’t say for sure whether he deserved that score or not, but I’ll ride with it.

  • Nov 12, 20135:36 pm
    by Toozman

    Reply

    A couple of thoughts defensively – first, give the Blazers credit – they shot the lights out.  Second, in the first quarter, there were four wide open threes – two from Smith double teaming and not recovering, and two from Jennings doing the same.  I think the starting lineup (regardless of the 2 guard) needs to play straight up man to man and not double (or gamble), because there’s no rotating ability whatsoever.  If they can’t cover, pull one of the bigs rather quickly and go more conventional.
    If Smith and Jennings pull the same stunts tonight, Golden State is going to set records………..

  • Nov 12, 20136:16 pm
    by joe

    Reply

    I don’t live in Detroit but someone need to play like Cheeks Barber and walk up to him before the next home game and slap this line up on his forehead:
    Starters: PG: Jennings, SG: KCP, SF: Smith, PF: Monroe, C: Drummond
    1st Subs: PG: Billups, SG: Stuckey, SF: Datome, PF: Smith, C: Monroe or Harrellson
    2nd Subs: PG: Jennings, SG: KCP, SF: Datome, PF: Mitchell or Monroe, C: Drummond 
    IT’S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!

  • Nov 12, 20136:55 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Part of the problem in the starting lineup is Chauncey. He can’t keep up with shooting guards (anyone really) and his rotations are way late. He need to be the backup PG where he still has some value running the offense 15mpg, if he’s going to play. Stuckey and KCP should be playing at SG. If KCP isn’t good yet, he’ll get better with experience. That’s better than getting bad play from someone who’s old enough that they’ll only get worse.

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