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Pistons torched by Warriors in first uncompetitive game, fourth-consecutive loss

Detroit Pistons 95 FinalRecap | Box Score 113 Golden State Warriors
Greg Monroe, PF 31 MIN | 6-15 FG | 3-6 FT | 5 REB | 2 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 15 PTS | -29Monroe’s offense was underwhelming and his defense brought back memories of last year. His two free throw misses to close out the first quarter were killers. The Pistons were struggling so much to put the ball in the basket and couldn’t afford to waste freebies.
Josh Smith, SF 19 MIN | 1-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -15Smith continued to attempt bad shots. This time, they weren’t falling. And he wasn’t contributing in other ways either. Completely unacceptable.
Andre Drummond, C 29 MIN | 8-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 14 REB | 0 AST | 3 STL | 3 BLK | 0 TO | 16 PTS | +1Drummond was the only good Piston starter in the game. Without him, Detroit probably loses by 30+.
Brandon Jennings, PG 27 MIN | 5-14 FG | 3-4 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 13 PTS | -31This performance was the epitome of bad Jennings. He was quick to hoist shots, missed a lot more than he made, didn’t get his teammates involved, and had 3 TOs to no steals.
Chauncey Billups, SG 6 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -12Billups is still technically a starter. but probably not for much longer. His role is rapidly declining. With games like this, it’s no surprise. But Billups’ ineffectiveness is relatively excusable relative to many of his teammates’ because it wasn’t sustained over much time on the floor.
Tony Mitchell, PF 13 MIN | 1-2 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | -4Mitchell put Lee on the line on two separate occasions when he wasn’t even shooting. And he made a goaltend. His numbers were decent for how much time he spent on the floor but he wasn’t playing smart.
Jonas Jerebko, PF 9 MIN | 1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | +1Jerebko only played garbage minutes, but he doesn’t look likely to get much more in most games these days. If he wants to regain a larger role, he has to do better in these limited opportunities.
Luigi Datome, SF 17 MIN | 4-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 10 PTS | +3Datome was a rare bright spot in this matchup. He shot well, defended adequately, and generally did a good job of being somewhere the ball could get to him. Performances like this should be consistently achievable. If that happens, Datome should team with Singler and maybe Pope to form a solid, reliable corps on the wing.
Kyle Singler, SF 18 MIN | 1-2 FG | 2-2 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 4 PTS | -5Singler needs to grab a few boards in 18 minutes. He was part of the reason the Warriors creamed the Pistons on the glass. Given how poorly his teammates shot the ball, Singler should have tried to take on a bit more of a scoring role. But his play in this game wasn’t going to move the needle much either way.
Will Bynum, PG 21 MIN | 4-8 FG | 6-10 FT | 4 REB | 4 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 14 PTS | +13Bynum did exciting Bynum things. He came into the game, brought a ton of energy, didn’t get sloppy, scored efficiently (although not as rapidly as we’ve sometimes seen), and would have given Detroit a shot at a comeback if the hole wasn’t so big.
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG 24 MIN | 4-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 9 PTS | -1Pope’s shooting left something to be desired, but it looked a lot better than it has in some games. His D was also solid and he got his most minutes of the season. Here’s hoping he has played his way into a bigger role because his upside is a lot better than Singler’s or Jerebko’s.
Rodney Stuckey, SG 28 MIN | 2-9 FG | 3-3 FT | 2 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 7 PTS | -11I would say that Stuckey’s shockingly good shooting to start the season had made him overconfident, but he’s always been that way. Stuckey, if you have to take a tough shot because the team’s sets got blown up, go for it and I hope it goes in. But they should be a last resort. Today, we saw more typical results to Stuckey’s shooting.
Maurice Cheeks
Cheeks didn’t coach particularly well, but i don’t think he could have manufactured a win here by coaching the best game anyone ever has. Still his grade has to suffer for pulling Drummond with foul trouble, especially in the 2nd quarter. He was easily the best Piston on the floor. Trust him to rein it in a bit. Also, Smith should have gotten some more time. He was awful, but given the desperate situation, he was more likely to play superstar ball and bring the Pistons back into the game than almost anyone else on the roster.

Three Things We Saw

  1. The Pistons attempted 17 more shots than the Warriors! And they took more from downtown and got to the line more frequently. They had 12 steals and just 12 TOs, to Golden State’s 5 and 23. It’s really hard to lose when those sorts of numbers happen. To lose by 18? That’s insane.
  2. Apart from the lack of minutes for Smith, the lineups looked a lot better this game. Lots of time with two of Detroit’s “big three”. Relatively big minutes for Pope and Datome. I want to see how this rotation holds up when they’re not playing an opponent that hits 60% of their shots.
  3. The Pistons may have only been losing to better teams so far, but this is unacceptable. Worse teams beat better teams regularly. Any given loss is understandable, but the succession of them isn’t. Detroit should probably be winning at least 30% of their games against teams expected to make the playoffs.

47 Comments

  • Nov 13, 20139:16 am
    by Danny

    Reply

    As stated in the last thread, I don’t care if he is hot or not, UTILIZE THE TEAM.  Dude is taking way too many shots and killing the flow of the game.  Now that he isn’t hitting I’m sure people will sing a different tune, obviously.  He should score and I want him to but the amount of shots, going in or not, bothers me a lot.  With him running the show it seems to have made Smith on the back burner and he is of course one of our best players.  His versatility is really needed on this team and make us difficult to defend.

    • Nov 13, 201310:36 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      I’m singing a different tune about Jennings today, but probably more because we are talking about a different game where he was shooting AND not converting.  On a situational basis (like during particular games that we are specifically debating his performance on) he probably needs to take over.  The problem that he showed last night is that he doesn’t understand when that isn’t happening.  Maybe everyone expects Jennings to go from a selfish shoot first player his whole career to becoming John Stockton, but IMO he is going to still need to have nights where he can take over on offense to balance that tendency in his game.  What he really needs to show is that he understands when to keep shooting and not to keep shooting.  Watching Chauncey play in his prime there were lots of times where he would run down on a fast break and shoot a 3 or take shots defended early in the shot clock(the kind of shots that Josh Smith or Jennings take and we all collectively groan), but he had a feel for when to take over and when to defer to his team mates that Jennings needs to adopt. You would care if his shot was hot if it won us the game and he has the presence of mind to understand when he needed to take over and the fact that he hasn’t figured that out doesn’t mean you fault him on the nights when he does it right.  
       
      Jennings also didn’t move Smith to the back burner…Cheeks did.  Smith went 1-6 and didn’t crack 20 minutes and that is a coaching decision.  Smith needs to contribute all over.  Not grabbing a rebound in 20 minutes is ridiculous.  

      • Nov 13, 201310:55 am
        by Steve K

        Reply

        I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Smith’s role has been reduced since Jennings came back. With Bynum running the point, the offense was basically feed Smith or Monroe posting up. Or run pick-and-roll with Drummond.
        That offensive set is boring, but it plays to the Pistons’ strengths. Smith started the season looking to pass first, attack the basket second. And he took a ton of threes but many were late in the shot clock. This is Josh Smith.
        Basically, do we want this team to be Smith’s or Jennings’? I vote for Smith. It’s clear that they will have difficulty coexisting… much more difficulty than the Smith/Monroe/Drummond trio that everyone feared in preseason.
        Cheeks needs to establish roles here. Jennings’ role is to get the big men involved. He can look for his points later to mix it up.

        • Nov 13, 201312:38 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          Smith-Jennings is a problem, yes. But to pretend like Smith-Monroe-Drummond is “much less difficulty” coexisting is absurd. These three together have been the absolute worst. Maybe you can make them “coexist” by rotating two of them at all times, but that won’t justify keeping the band together, and this team’s identity and assets are much more closely tied to that trio than to any sort of balancing act between BJ and Smith.

        • Nov 13, 20132:05 pm
          by Huddy

          Reply

          Smith and Jenning’s best games as Pistons were both against OKC.  They had 22 and 25pts, Smith shot 50% fg and 42% 3p, Jennings had 11 assists, and smith had 8 boards…in other words when they were both playing solid they meshed together fine (on offense of course, that game was lost on D, any game giving up 119 D is the issue).  Smith has had bad games when he takes bad shots and doesn’t attack the rim, this game in particular he shot 1/6 and was pulled…that is not Jenning’s responsibility.  They have their own issues, but they are not caused by each other.  It is especially evident that Smith’s problems are his own in the last two games he is not pulling down boards or getting any blocks…his effort is down because he frustrates himself out of the game by not hitting shots.

        • Nov 13, 20132:51 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          I dont want the team to be either player’s team.  Neither one is the kind of player you build a winner around.   Drummond and monroe should be the featured players.
          This was the problem all along with bringing smith and then jennings onboard.  Fans initiallyacted as though it did not matter that the team brought 2 braindead players onboard.  Now those fans who poohpoohed  our concerns see exactly what some of us have been concerned about.
          And with cheeks as coach it is not going to get any better.

  • Nov 13, 20139:17 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    You know our numbers were so much better than theirs in turnovers and steals, so we should’ve had a chance. But you know where the numbers severely outperformed ours? ASSISTS!!!
    I’m really kind of frustrated with Joe Dumars for telling Brandon Jennings to be a shoot first player, right after he had his best game of the year with 21 points and 11 assists. Brandon’s newfound selfishness has infected the rest of the team overnight, And now we’re not even competing really.
    Good passing leads to good shooting, because that’s what passings for. So the more selfish a team is the worst shots are. The only teams that get by with little assisting is teams with one-on-one superstar scorers like Durant and Westbrook. Most basketball teams have to develop a pass first mentality hard to compete against skilled basketball teams. Joe Dumars has destroyed their chances of success by telling his Leap point guard to be shoot first.

    • Nov 13, 20135:21 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Team assists are one of the least consequential stats. They have virtually no correlation with winning. How many assists a player gets can tell you something about how well he moves the ball. How many assists a team gets just tells you more about their offensive style.

      Look at the bottom ten teams in assists per game last season:
      30. New York (54-28)
      29. Charlotte (21-61)
      28. Indiana (49-32)
      27. Brooklyn (49-33)
      26. Cleveland (24-58)
      25. Sacramento (28-54)
      24. Memphis (56-26)
      23. New Orleans (27-55)
      22. Detroit (29-53)
      21. Oklahoma City (60-22)

      There is no rhyme or reason to that group (except for a lack of mediocrity), it’s a mix of very good and very bad teams in a fairly random order.

      • Nov 13, 20135:35 pm
        by Vic

        Reply

        My point is that the Pistons are playing more selfishly since Dumars instructed Jennings to play shoot first, and it is hurting the team.
        Im fully aware that different offenses work differently. That’s why I mentioned OKC, which has one of the best offenses, with the least assists.
        However, the Pistons usually play better when the ball moves and they play unselfishly… Which is why I was disappointed when Brandon Jennings decided to go shoot first.
         

      • Nov 13, 201310:57 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        Tim, you glossed over the whole “lack of mediocrity” issue, but there might actually be something to it. The teams you listed are all pretty bad or pretty good. The good ones all have pretty dominant one-on-one players who shoulder the scoring burden, so that defines their style of play. The bad ones don’t, and still they don’t move the ball very well. So the data tells me that if you don’t have any dominant one-on-one scorers, you better be able to move the ball or you’re going to stink.

        • Nov 13, 201311:36 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          I’ll concede that as a possible explanation. So let’s look into its legitimacy. Of the good teams, OKC and New York very much had go-to one-on-one scorers. Indiana, Brooklyn, and Memphis not so much.

          Brooklyn’s leading scorer was Brook Lopez, but his style of scoring is probably even more prone to racking up team assists than Monroe’s. We think of Paul George as a big time scorer, but he was 25th in the league last year. Memphis probably had the most balanced scoring in the entire league. So I don’t think you had the right explanation even if there were something to the lack of mediocre teams.

          So let’s look at another season. 2011-12 was lockout-affected so let’s go back to 2010-11. That year the bottom 10 teams in assist rate included Milwaukee, Indiana, Memphis, and New Orleans. And those were probably the 4 most mediocre teams in the league that season.

          I don’t see any reason to conclude that mediocre teams can’t be near the bottom of assists, they just didn’t happen to be last year. My point remains that team assist rate is, at best, barely related to winning percentage.

          Vic’s point that the Pistons in particular will play better if their style is more assist-conducive could be accurate, but I don’t know of any evidence to back it up.

          • Nov 14, 20131:46 pm
            by Otis

            I’m not going to spend that much time thinking about it, just wanted to point out something that dawned on me that you may have missed. But I  dothink team assists are more important than you’re giving them credit for. Usually assisted buckets are easy buckets, and this team could sure use more easy buckets.

  • Nov 13, 20139:22 am
    by Danny

    Reply

    PS: Don’t even get me started on his defense, after the screen he makes no attempt to recover on his man or pick up the switch.  He simply walks into the paint and waits till they make it, if they miss he won’t chase the loose ball unless it bounces to him.  Some people will bring up the fact that he gets 3.4 rebounds a game for his career, which is true and above avg for most points.  Thats because he is out of position constantly and doesn’t guard the perimeter as his position is supposed to, leaving three point shooters wide open does this happen.  So sacrifice defense for some stats.

    • Nov 13, 201310:57 am
      by Steve K

      Reply

      This is a good point. While it’s frustrating watching the offense last night, it was the defense that was the most embarrassing. These guys have talent on D, but they don’t seem to know how to play team defense. Bogut and Lee just killed them inside with ease.

      • Nov 13, 20132:10 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        I think he is talking about Jenning’s on D.  The perimeter has been a big problem.  Allowing guards to shoot 70% is the issue.  Bogut putting up 8  and Lee putting up 17 you can live with if the team isn’t making low percentage outside shots into high percentage gimmes.

  • Nov 13, 20139:48 am
    by Windy

    Reply

    Cheeks needs to work on finding the correct rotations and figure it out soon…I understand he had some injuries etc…but your now 8 games into the regular season and he is still just flip floppin guys in and out…one game KCP gets time, plays well then sits, Gigi comes in struggles then plays the next game, Jerebko gets time, CV getting minutes, Mitchell getting minutes…sitting Smith, playing Bynum way too long etc…just a mess that needs to be fixed very very soon…I believe they will probably ride Jennings, KCP, Smith Monroe Dre at some point with Stuckey, Singler Gigi and Billups/Bynum mix matching…JJ is a mess and there is just no point in investing time in CV…
    Glad he has the balls to sit a guy for ill advised shots but it really should be across the board…Jennings is hoisting just as much

  • Nov 13, 201310:37 am
    by lisa

    Reply

    This was the first game I got to watch all season, so disappointed!! I barely made thru the first half. Did we suck or what!? Jennings was awful! Trade him Joe and get us a real point guard!

  • Nov 13, 201311:13 am
    by MIKEYDE248

    Reply

    I won’t agree that it was a mistake to bench Smith.  Last game he looked uninterested and looked the same way again last night.  I only wish he would have done the same thing with Jennings, not because he looked uninterested, but because of his poor shooting and selfishness.
    At some point when you know the game is out of hand, play the bench.

  • Nov 13, 201311:27 am
    by joe

    Reply

    The Pistons need to make this trade with 76er’s by the deadline, if the Pistons want to turn their season around. The Pistons get E. Turner and T. Young and the 76er’s get J. Smith and Singler, that’s a fair trade for both teams.

  • Nov 13, 201312:13 pm
    by DetFan

    Reply

    This seems like the same crappy team from last year. I know it’s early but I’m not liking the Josh Smith signing! The guy is too moody and you’ll never get consistency. Bynum is one reason why the team is bad. And to top it off, the coaching staff is atrocious. Mo Cheeks! Rasheed Wallace! coaching! C’mon man

  • Nov 13, 20131:24 pm
    by MrBlockedShot

    Reply

    We most likely have been through  our most difficult stretch of the season, playing two title-contenders (IND, OKC) and going West ( somewhere where we have been terrible for the last years, remember this: 1 victory / 45 games). That’s an unfair sample of games to evaluate this team, and the outcome is not far from what we would had get with last year’s team. Focus on wining SAC and LAL and get back home to play teams in our ‘prívate league of contenders for the 8th spot’

  • Nov 13, 20131:59 pm
    by picknroll

    Reply

    I know its early in the season………….but, it seems we have a mess on our hands again with the reconstructed roster! Many were concerned with the Josh Smith acquisition, myself included, and also many spoke of issues with Brandon Jennings being part of the team.  I thought BJ would be a big upgrade over B Knight but it is looking like another whole set of problems with his shoot first mentality!  I was also totally against the hire of Mo Cheeks.  I believe we need a firm hand leading this team and I don’t think Mo is our guy to be that person.  Oh, well, I’m expecting another poor season from the ‘Stones, but hoping somehow they can turn it around!!

    • Nov 13, 20134:01 pm
      by DetFan

      Reply

      What’s the difference between passing a ball to a teammate who can’t shoot as appose to you shooting and missing a shot? Jennings need to score! It would be dumb passing up shots so brick shooters like Smith and Stuckey get shots.

  • Nov 13, 20132:00 pm
    by maeby

    Reply

    Datome defended ‘adequately’? I think that’s being very, very generous to our Italian friend.

  • Nov 13, 20132:17 pm
    by Huddy

    Reply

    I think it is extremely telling that the Pistons got in their hole in the very beginning of the game and once Chauncey was brought out the team was basically neck and neck the rest of the game.  Billups simply can’t defend SGs especially a young tandem like Thompson/Curry.  I have no idea what Cheeks thinks he is adding to the team out there.  He is playing the off guard so he has few opportunities to facilitate, he isn’t hitting shots (not to mention he specifically doesn’t like just being a spot up shooter), and he is unable to guard his position.  KCP can take as long as he needs to work out his shooting stroke as long as he plays good D and doesn’t take too many bad shots and he would make a much better impact on the team.  I like Chauncey, but he isn’t going to help the team close out any games if he is one of the direct causes to the team starting the game in a 15 pt hole.

    • Nov 13, 20132:30 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Um, you’ve made a serious error in your first sentence here. It’s a mistake many people make when they don’t really understand the fundamentals of the game. Here it is:
       
      “…once Chauncey was brought out the team was basically neck and neck the rest of the game.”
       
      For one thing, Chauncey was like a -13 or something and played about the first six minutes. The team lost the first quarter by 19 points, so that’s an additional -6 hole after puling Chauncey. But that’s more of an oversight than anything. The REAL problem is this notion that two teams are neck-and-neck and/or evenly matched when they basically spend any stretch of a blowout game trading baskets. Basketball, more than any other sport, tends to favor close scoring games. Because of the pace, the level of effort, the length of the season. Make no mistake: This was a horrible blowout from start to finish. In fact, this might have been the quickest I’ve ever seen any game get out of reach in my life, and I’ve been following the Pistons the last five years. This wasn’t even close. It was like our dismantling of Maccabi Haifa. These teams didn’t look like they belonged in the same league.
       
      We lost the first quarter by 19 and the game by 18, but let’s say the refs cleared the scoreboard and started counting at the second quarter, this team would not have won the game by a point. They would have been demolished just the same. When a team builds that kind of a lead that quickly, 99% of the time they just spend the rest of the game coasting and trading baskets, like when I play one on one with my nephew who is a toddler. Golden State, as most teams do in blowouts, rested their starters big time. Detroit, on the other hand, didn’t “rest” their starters. They went to the bench because the starters were getting savagely raped out there. There was no possible outcome of that game that didn’t involve the Pistons getting dismantled in horrifying fashion. And don’t fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
       

      • Nov 13, 20134:51 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Honestly, Otis is much more right than wrong here but his starting off with an insult, smugness and exaggerations are as always what I find off putting.  
        The worst teams have always beaten the best teams from time to time, the Pistons are not the worst team, bigger deficits have been overcome and he goes too far when he says “no possible outcome…..horrifying fashion”.  The Pistons did get mutilated last night.  It happens but it doesn’t make the Pistons a team that doesn’t belong in the NBA.   If the Pistons and Warriors played enough games against each other the Pistons would win some of them.  
        Also, Otis in term’s of Huddy’s point about getting in holes is only making the arguments for why the team that is ahead relaxes and not the the points about why it is hard to get out of holes.   While the arguments for the team that is ahead may be better there are is also a valid case for why when you get off to a terrible start it is hard to come back and the tide can turn during a game.  Nothing is as absolute as Otis would have it.  
        Finally, it’s an incredibly reach to say this was the quickest game to get out of reach in terms of my experience but Otis only said in his experience which makes me think he’s seen far less basketball than I would have thought.  

      • Nov 13, 201311:02 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        That’s interesting otis I dont remember saying the Pistons would have lost by one if they hadn’t started in an early hole.  My point is regarding Chauncey’s liability on defense.  You can certainly make the point that good teams play down once they have a lead, but that doesn’t mean the pistons werent playing better with other line ups.  In those first 6 minutes Chaincey have up 7 pts on 3/4 shooting to Thompson and added nothing on offense.  The fact that good teams coast doesn’t mean that any analysis of the losing teams play for the rest of the game is useless.  Even if coasting contributes to the close score for the other 3 quarters does that mean there’s no chance that the starting line up (which you frequently put down) wasn’t a big factor in the initial blow out?  Are you under the impression that starting two PGs with poor defense is benefiting the team?   Maybe perimeter defense isn’t one of those fundamentals of the game I clearly don’t understand oh holy one.

        • Nov 14, 20131:57 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          You didn’t say specifically that the Pistons would have lost by one (and technically it would have gone the other way and they’d have won by one, but that’s not relevant). You just implied that it was a close game after they pulled Chauncey. I agree the guy has looked like a complete and total liability from game two on, but blaming the loss on him is silly. That’s all.
           
          And it’s not that analyzing the tail ends of lopsided games (in this case, the tail end was pretty much everything after the 11-2 start) is totally useless, just that it has EXTREMELY limited usefulness. And you can’t possibly judge the outcome of the game based on much of anything that happens after the better team takes control.
           
          Also I’m not sure where the attitude comes from at the end there. Perimeter defense is a big problem, the starting lineup is a steaming pile of shit, so I don’t know what to say. But Chauncey is only one of the problems here, and I just pointed out that (A) the team continued to implode after he was removed, and (B) literally nothing the Pistons could have done, aside from actually WIN the game, would have convinced me that Chauncey was the biggest factor in the loss. It’s the lineup, the coach, the GM, lots of stuff. Signing Chauncey has looked like a huge mistake so far, and the situation looks like it’s only getting uglier, but I just thought it was strange to call him out like this business of starting and extra PG and C instead of having wings would work if not for Chauncey.

          • Nov 14, 20133:28 pm
            by Huddy

            Yeah why would anyone have an attitude with such a humble level headed individual who writes in such an omniscient fashion and leads his arguments with telling others they don’t understand the fundamentals of basketball.
             
            you agree that Chauncey is a problem and a bad signing, but choose to spend your time (at great length) trying to prove that other problems exist…congrats.  The team is doing poorly and multiple problems exist.  The fact that I  choose not to focus on the one factor you are interested in driving into the ground (the cohesiveness of the front court) doesn’t mean you have to downplay all other opinions and focus on yours that you “know” are absolute. asserting that a quarter of basketball the team lost by 15 in large part due to poor perimeter defense is telling of the state of the starting 5 is not ridiculous. 

  • Nov 13, 20133:05 pm
    by pistons moribund

    Reply

    First back to back coming out a bit flat was not unexpected.  Rotation still seems to be the biggest issue.  Glad to see that Datome and CPK, aka”the future” was able to play.  I would rather see Future and Datome then “the past” Stuckey and MFWB.  The Past are more of a liability then an asset.  At least the Future plays good defense even if he doesn’t manage to score that much for now.
    Jennings is probably more inclined to try to score since no one is hitting their shots.  No that its the right thing to do but probably what feels right for him.  Hopefully, the good that can be gleamed from this is that Datome and the Future will be trusted to play a bit more.
    Looks as though CB will be riding the pine on the back to back nights, which probably isn’t a bad thing.
    Team is still more watchable then for about four years.

  • Nov 13, 20133:08 pm
    by JGoplay

    Reply

    haha everytime I’m a little disappointed by Jennings’ production, I check at how Brandon Knight and Khris Middleton are doing in Milwaukee. Trust me guys, we’re doing a lot better with Jennings. At the same time, at least Knight tried on D 

    • Nov 13, 201311:44 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      The question is less whether Jennings is better than Knight+Middleton+Krastov and more whether he is worth $8M/yr

    • Nov 15, 201310:57 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Khris Middleton has looked like a pretty capable back up especially considering his age and contract.

  • Nov 13, 20134:42 pm
    by EW

    Reply

    Nothing hurts worse than watching your team lose AND being the away team. This was my first chance since moving to the Bay area to be able to see the fellas in person and needless to say I was utterly embarrassed.
    Managed to get some pretty decent seats so I could actually see and here them fighting amongst one another and entirely confused in play. They were lost. No one knew where they were supposed to be and they were pointing the finger at each other for the mistakes. Moreover there was no floor general, certainly not Jennings or Cheeks. All isolation nightmares and turnovers. The most fun (and satisfying basketball really) was seeing the bench play because at least they were going to succeed or fail as a team.
    They look neither comfortable running sets or more importantly as teammates. Jennings is an absolute upgrade in talent, but if body language could speak it would say he doesn’t have many if any compadres on this team. He’s a ball hog playing for him. I’d love to say I’m not worried, but I am.

    • Nov 13, 20135:09 pm
      by MrBlockedShot

      Reply

      Great point @EM, interesting comments on something one can’t on televised games. Somehow there’s something that Cheeks (or whoever) will do about that in upcoming games. The sooner every player gets to know his role on the court the sooner we’ll start wining.

  • Nov 13, 20135:02 pm
    by The Microwave

    Reply

    This was the first back to back road game of the year. Yeah the pistons are playing poorly. Yeah Smith and BJ take too many shots (especially when they miss). But panic button so soon? Let at least wait until after the road trip is over to assess whats crackin. My bet is they come out and beat the dog doodoo out of the queens and then go to LA and stomp the Lakers. They will come back home a game under .500 and then they will start torching teams in the D . That is of course assuming Sheed checks Smith and Chauncey has words with Jennings. These guys are the leaders that took us to the promise land as players a few years back. And something tells me they are going to right this ship. Might even upset Miami in the first round.

  • Nov 13, 20135:27 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    The Pistons are scoring enough points for all the talk about shooting and spacing and Jennings and other scapegoats on offense.   
    The defense has been the real culprit.   Look at these horrifying numbers.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/defense-per-game/sort/shootingEfficiencyOpponent
    Getting stops is the problem.  
    Opponents are shooting over 49 percent from the field, 39 percent from three and and 82 from the line–the free throw pct isn’t the Pistons’ fault but they are sending opponents there 26 times a game.  Other teams are getting a league best 1.36 points per shot and the Pistons are giving up that league worst number by a healthy margin.   
    One possible positive note is that the Pistons are leading the league in steals and opponents turnovers.  

    • Nov 13, 20135:35 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      These numbers are hurting the Pistons on offense too because this a team that needs to have more fast breaks than most to get easy baskets and they aren’t getting a lot of opportunities to run when opponents score so efficiently.  

  • Nov 13, 20135:43 pm
    by Leon

    Reply

    @MICROWAVE …..I’m with you ….But lets just say all in all I hope your right.
     In the meantime we must realize that it’s the freaking beginning of the season people. This is a young team that is just getting to know each other, hell I’m glad they’re struggling now, least you can come out and know  where your weaknesses are early instead of being like the 76′ers winning their first three games and prolonging the inevitable of really needing to find a way of getting better. Not sure why Mo won’t play KCP more to get him in a better groove, but it seems he is really trying to win with what he’s got. We don’t have the most skilled and competent team but it takes time. I still have a little faith in Mo and Joe, they just got to figure out how to make it work. I’ll admit the more KCP and less CB , and the more T Mitchell and less Jonas at this point would be a blessing. I can take Bynum but only in small portions. Love to see Silva out there. I mean use your youth.

    • Nov 13, 20136:53 pm
      by mshansky

      Reply

      Warriors coach Mark Jackson scoffed at the notion that it takes time for players to get acclimated.
      “I think that’s overrated,” Jackson said. “Go get me five guys in the park that never met each other that know how to play basketball and they’ll figure it out.”

  • Nov 13, 20137:02 pm
    by Keith

    Reply

    The one thing pundits were saying over the offseason is that while the players on the Pistons might not fit together, they were all on reasonable contracts that could be traded. December 15th marks the first time that free agents can be traded. Can we end this little debacle and move Smith or Jennings at that time? We’re playing more like a team that will land a top 8 pick than a team about to turn the corner.

    To start, Cheeks needs to figure out rotations. 3 bigs doesn’t work. And it’s not a small tweak issue that will get figured out in time. That lineup is atrocious at both ends of the floor. There should never be a time where two of those three aren’t on the floor, though. Stagger their minutes. Drummond plays center all the time, Smith plays PF all the time, Monroe plays every minute one of those two is on the bench. It doesn’t even matter which two start, just make sure we are NEVER forced to play Charlie, JJ, or Gigi at PF.

    Long term, though, we are probably better off trading Monroe or Smith. Of the two, I’d certainly rather trade Smith. Monroe has easily been the better player so far and he’s younger. That said, we’d get a much better return for Monroe. I doubt either option occurs, as Dumars is likely going down with the ship.

  • Nov 13, 20139:50 pm
    by Leon

    Reply

    I see why people would say trade Smith instead of Monroe, and I can see why people would say trade Monroe instead of Smith. Heres the dilemma besides contract issues. They both actually play the same position but moose isn’t athletic enough to defend the quicker PF’s. Offensively you can run an offense through him better than Smith and his offense is probably more consistent but he can’t really score in many ways like a Smith when Smith is actually on due to his athletic ability. Now Smith is more of a defensive presence than Monroe due to sheer athletic ability. That’s why they try and slide him over to the 3 at times. But in reality they’re killing themselves by doing it. The thing about this team for the past few years they never tend to draft or trade a player and let that player play his natural position. They alway try to hybrid someone which could work in certain situations but it shouldn’t be the norm or how you build a team. The only guy on the team who’s an exception to that rule being a hybrid honestly would be Greg Monroe because he’s a PF size but he is also the typical NbA of today center size and type and actually has a better skill set to play both positions. Primarily center though. Remember…. The position he played when people was raving about him being an all-star? Listen moose is arguably the best player on the team your not going to Hershel Walker this dude and get back anything that could benefit us in the present or future. Once we and more importantly the coach realize its Moose and Dre who should split minutes the team will start rolling a bit. Now this will then let J. Smith play his power forward position a bit more smoothly instead of wearing him down on D trying to guard SF. Like I said he’s athletic enough to do it but doing it all the time is disastrous. 

  • Nov 13, 201310:18 pm
    by Leon

    Reply

    This is now when you have your prob At the SF position well u have a choice. Three choices actually. Let JJ Singler or even T Mitchell get the burn at that position. The name of the game there is know your role. The thing at the time that made Tay so good was the fact he knew his role. It wasn’t to score but it was to defend and occasionally generate enough O to keep the opposing team honest. Why are these guys struggling right now ? Because that same problem of playing these guys out of position. i also forgot to mention Gigi at the Sf position. But you even see with him. They try and make there sf pf. But overall you have to play these guys they got to have some burn to get a rhythm. At SG I say if you drafted a SG as your top pick and if he at least brings something to the table play him. Who cares if he’s a rook. You’re not doing anything but stunting his growth. Stuckey is who he is and since the early hype of his offense has diminished you see why he is best suited to come off the bench. CB should backup Jennings or  (gulp) WB at (POINT) not SG….. Maybe every other blue moon but CB should be getting less burn than any one of the players. No disrespect to Chauncey but they have to stop depending on him like that. They should only use him to quickly stabilize the team when things seem a bit shaky and that’s at the PG position to distribute more so than to try and be Mr. Big Shot. I mean yea if the shots there and you feeling good about it let it rip but don’t try to be the offensive spark plug. They actually have the players hell even Peyton Silva should be considered but thats another story. For those who were athletic enough to play ball or just knowledgeable enough to play, remember when we played with what and who we had and found out away to make it work? We may have had a kid who was pudgy and slow but he was our best version of a center cause that’s just how he played. Like a center this would not be considered a hybrid because I don’t know mentally the kid actually thought he was the center and his skill set was that of a center sure he may have had to adjust how he played due to maybe being slower or shorter but he or the team made it work  That’s what todays game lack and what our team lacks. We need to play with that same mindset or because we actually have the height play at our own position coach 

  • Nov 14, 20138:05 am
    by Lethal Leeroy

    Reply

    Bad game all round… Granted we going to get that with a new team, but like Jackson said give me 5 who want it to work and they will make it happen.. It seemed as though, while BJ tossed up a heap of good and bad shots, the bench reaction was indifferent, irrespective of the outcome… Only noticed from 2nd half onward and haven’t reviewed the tape, but the lack of any reaction is the worst thing, as it looked like (from a very long long way away) that the players aren’t responding to BJ… I think there are major personality issues here… Also, Moose seems unusually angry these past 8 games (no it’s not a contract year chip) and Smith playing the 3 might be a factor… Even Dre seems less interested. Sure it could be the lack of W’s and high expectations going in, but to me it is a reflection that team culture is likely fractured… I also get the feeling that they not responding to Mo Cheeks game time coaching… our half court sets are basically ‘me ball’ and the players have no faith in the plays he wants run leading to incompetence, poor execution and confusion… not being at the games it’s hard to tell, but Mo needs to regather some control here, otherwise I fear that he won’t make the season…  I really hope I am wrong and it’s just early season / new team(mate) blues

    • Nov 14, 201310:44 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      Lethal Leeroy, another sharp observation, my man. I, too, have been watching the bench reaction (or lack there of). The guys, when on the bench and some when on the floor, don’t appear to have the level of engagement that I would like to see.
      And, has anyone looked at the standings. Now, I know that it will not probably end the way that the standings are currently reflected, but Philly, Boston, Charlotte, Phoenix are all playing better than WE are.
       
       

  • Nov 14, 201310:46 am
    by lotterybound14

    Reply

    Dumars needs to be bold in order to keep his job. They need 3pt shooting to space the floor out- Smith, Jennings, and Billups are building factories from beyond the arc. Cheeks should probably bench Smoove for Datome. Datome looks like a poor man’s Kevin Durant in his Italian League videos. He can shoot the NBA 3.
    Aaron Afflalo is exactly what they need- He’s developed into a solid perimeter defender that can score and shoots the 3-ball very well. Dumars chose him over Stuckey and for more money. THAT is his worst move hes ever made.
     

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