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Pistons collapse late, fall to Hawks, 93-85

Detroit Pistons 85 FinalRecap | Box Score 93 Atlanta Hawks
Greg Monroe, PF 34 MIN | 3-8 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 4 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 7 PTS | -19The Hawks shot 70 percent in the restricted area, according to NBA.com/Stats. That largely falls on Monroe, who a lot of trouble bodying up Paul Millsap (19 points). On offense, Monroe was mostly ineffective. It was not a great game for Monroe.
Josh Smith, SF 36 MIN | 5-15 FG | 1-2 FT | 6 REB | 2 AST | 3 STL | 2 BLK | 1 TO | 11 PTS | -18In his return to Atlanta, Smith tried to do way too much. He took a lot of unnecessary shots early in the shot clock and missed all his shots outside of the paint, including all four of his 3-point attempts. His saving grace is usually defense, but tonight, he slipped against the Hawks’ frontcourt and let DeMarre Carroll out rebound him 12-6.
Andre Drummond, C 35 MIN | 5-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 12 REB | 0 AST | 4 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 10 PTS | +1He didn’t shoot very well tonight and regressed with his offensive role. We’ve seen him start to work a little bit from the elbow, but he didn’t do that at all tonight). Still, in a game where with few upsides, Drummond provided two with his rebounding and his steals.
Brandon Jennings, PG 41 MIN | 9-21 FG | 0-1 FT | 7 REB | 6 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 21 PTS | -16Jennings was very polarizing tonight, to say the least. He was all over the place, but he rebounded well, made 3-of-6 3-pointers and still managed six assists for a team that shot poorly. His biggest flaws were difficulty defending the pick and roll and taking care of the ball. He can’t keep that up.
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, SG 23 MIN | 1-9 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 4 PTS | -8Despite his relatively effective defensive performance — probably the best in the Pistons’ backcourt — he was abysmal on offense, to say the least. After getting inside and building confidence in previous games, Caldwell-Pope took six of his nine shots from beyond the arc tonight and missed them all.
Josh Harrellson, PF 6 MIN | 1-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 3 PTS | -3Harrellson played only six minutes. He made a 3-pointer and blocked a shot, but he didn’t play enough for me to give him a real grade out there.
Luigi Datome, SF 11 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | +12Datome finally logged legitimate minutes, and he looked pretty good. He shot a bit above average from the field (his shot is so pretty) in only four attempts, but the most impressive part about his game tonight were his defensive efforts. He was matched up with Paul Millsap on multiple occasions when Cheeks ran a small lineup, and despite my predictions, he played very well against him.
Kyle Singler, SF 22 MIN | 2-6 FG | 2-2 FT | 7 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 2 TO | 6 PTS | +3Singler played much differently than usual. He defended well, shot well in the paint and grabbed seven boards. In his 22 minutes played — often as a power forward with Siva, Stuckey, Datome and Drummond — he stepped up.
Peyton Siva, PG 6 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | +11Siva played well in his six minutes played, getting a rebound, assist and two steals, but didn’t shoot once and didn’t make an impact on defense. He didn’t play long enough to get a legitimate grade tonight.
Rodney Stuckey, SG 26 MIN | 7-12 FG | 3-3 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 5 TO | 18 PTS | -3Stuckey played well tonight. He shut down Korver on defense, scored a very efficient 18 points and knocked down all of his free throws. From an individual standpoint, there is not much more one could have asked out of Stuckey tonight.
Maurice Cheeks
Cheeks ran some really weird lineups tonight. Siva-Stuckey-Singler-Datome-Drummond worked, although it admittedly wasn’t the best lineup to run against this Hawks team. My biggest problem with Cheeks’ coaching tonight was his refusal to try to talk to Josh Smith out of taking 15 shots when he was playing poorly. Oh, he also got thrown out of the game midway through the fourth quarter.

Three Things We Saw

  1. The Pistons are not good at closing games. The game was close for a good 41 minutes, and then they fell apart and eventually lost by eight points.
  2. This team, despite their best efforts, can’t guard the pick and roll at all. It’s such a simple offensive scheme; one would think it’s an easy fix. Mo Cheeks needs to do something about that particular aspect of defense.
  3. The Pistons shot 23.5 percent on mid-range jumpers tonight. It was probably a combination of Monroe testing his shooting limits and Smith/Jennings chucking early in the shot clock, but nonetheless, it’s an issue.

99 Comments

  • Nov 20, 201310:46 pm
    by Keith

    Reply

    Through 11 games this season, the book on Jennings:

    Lowest scoring efficiency of his career (including rookie year).

    Of the sever starting PGs with lower efficiency so far, 1 is a second round rookie, 5 are perennially terrible shooters/scorers, and 1 is returning from a year lost to injury.

    Despite the above, Jennings has the highest usage rate of any Piston.

    Jennings has the highest usage rate of his entire career.

    Jennings has the highest assist rate of his career,

    Jennings’ career high assist rate still ranks in the bottom half of PGs in the league.

    Conclusion:
    The Pistons, as currently constructed, don’t need a worse version of over the hill Allen Iverson as their starting PG.

    • Nov 20, 201311:19 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      I don’t disagree with a word of that but it bears mentioning that this team problems go beyond Jennings.  I would love to see him and Josh Smith shown the door ASAP.
       
      JS is just too dumb for words.  His previous team fans are LTFAO at him right now for being egged into taking jumper after jumper.  Heck he even caught an offensive rebound six feet from the basket and dribbled out just so he could brick a 20 for them.

    • Nov 20, 201311:22 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      @keith
      thank you.
      using stats i would probably never have sought out, you have explained jennings well.
      he is a problem.  plain and simple.  milwaukee understood that which is why they gladly dumped him into detroit’s lap.
      what is interesting, however, is that jennings will occasionally exhibit an understanding of what his role should be on a court and team and when that happens, it is nice to see.  
      however, that is a fleeting and non-representative moment.
      he is one of the team’s problems and it is unlikely that the team will address him appropriately.  games like tonight just emphasize how wrong he is for this team.

      • Nov 21, 201312:29 am
        by D_S_V

        Reply

        This seems like such an armchair, assumptive, quick assessment of Jennings, but he’s sooooooo small! Between his frame and his demeanor on defense, I can’t imagine how he’d make a positive impact on that side of the floor. Couple that with his inefficiency on offense and I just don’t see how he can be a good value player to have on your team. Jennings was mostly an unknown to myself before Detroit obtained him – I knew his name, saw some highlights, but that was about it – but after a few games, (quick assumption, I know), I don’t have a difficult time seeing why Milwaukee would be OK not going forward with him in the future.
        A friend of mine mentioned how he was so easily able to see why Jennings and Smith’s previous fanbases garnered such a love/hate relationship with their respective players. I must say, I too understand, and unfortunately, at this juncture it seems that Joe D has failed in his attempt to assemble a cast of misfits that have found their haven of glory. 

    • Nov 21, 20139:42 am
      by Murph

      Reply

      Keith…agreed.
      Here’s a telling statistic.  In games when Jennings takes 14 or fewer shots, the Pistons are 4-2 this season.  In games when Jennings takes 15 or more shots, the Pistons are 0-5 this season.
      And even last night, the Pistons played much better with Siva running the point, than Jennings.
       
       

      • Nov 21, 201310:20 am
        by PistonManiac

        Reply

        Yes let Jennings take less shots so Smith and company can throw up more bricks

        • Nov 21, 201310:59 am
          by Murph

          Reply

          I’m just stating facts. 
           
          How you want to interpret facts is completely up to you.

  • Nov 20, 201310:58 pm
    by Vince

    Reply

    B- for Singler? Were we watching the same game? The dude flat out sucked. I was rooting for him at the beginning of the year but god damn, he has played horribly this season. 
    This also made me laugh “[...] two steals, [...] didn’t make an impact on defense.”
    Siva was arguably the only guard on our roster who could slow down the Atlanta PGs, and it seemed as though he actually bothered them for the six minutes he was on. In those six minutes he controlled the offense, slowed it down and looked to run whatever it is Cheeks calls a play, he didn’t overdribble ala Jennings or drive to the hoop and pray for contact ala Stuckey, he played his brand of ball, he looked to get teammates involved and would’ve got three assists had Stuck and GiGi converted on two feeds. I honestly don’t mind him not shooting the ball, thats not what he is here for, thats not what he is known for, you want a diminuitive guard that plays hero ball all the time? Thats Bynum. Siva actually plays D and I reckon he passes better than Will.
    A- for Stuckey is too generous, I would’ve given him Singler’s B- if anything. Dude had 5 TOs, there were times he couldn’t even control the ball and got his pocket picked on a regular basis. Stuck may be playing well this season, but at the moment, I consider him this year’s Brandon Knight: Shoots decently but can’t handle a ball to save his life.
    On a positive note really liked what I saw from GiGi, Peyton and Jorts, hopefully Mitchell gets some PT soon as well. This team is horrible to watch on defense and offense, I predict a long year if there are no trades in the next three months.

    • Nov 20, 201311:45 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Yeah, I don’t think you can have 5 TO’s in a loss and get any kind of A. Maybe if you managed 15 assists.

  • Nov 20, 201311:08 pm
    by Prelove

    Reply

    these grades are a joke. poorly written article.

    • Nov 20, 201311:22 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      The whole team deserves an F.  I can’t even give Drummond a pass when Atlanta’s guards were running layup drills while him, Monroe and Smith just watched.

      • Nov 21, 20138:35 am
        by curriergroh

        Reply

        ^^^THIS^^^
        All three were under the hoop at times, but somehow none of them got between the ball and the basket.

      • Nov 21, 201312:28 pm
        by Tim Thielke

        Reply

        So why not start a blog where you hand out grades to Pistons players after each game? If they play a game that you find disgraceful (like a single-digit loss to a slightly better team that was back and forth until the very end), you can give everyone an F. I’m sure your thoughtful, detailed, and articulate analysis will gain you a massive following.

        • Nov 21, 20133:57 pm
          by jamesjones_det

          Reply

          Well I don’t see how that is much different than your “Jennings was invisible for most of his playing time. Get better soon Jennings, I don’t love your trigger-happiness but Detroit really could have used your floor spacing while the Knicks stormed back from 15 down to a 5 point gap.”.
           
          Anyway I wasn’t trying to pick a fight with you but hey if you can’t take some criticism and respond to a request for clarification like a man instead of a defensive childish boy maybe you should reconsider posting…
           

          • Nov 21, 20134:48 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            You don’t see the difference between explaining why each player gets the grade he did and saying you were unimpressed with the team as a whole, so Fs all around?

            I would explain it to you, but that’s like explaining the difference between wet and dry. If you don’t get it, I don’t know what I can add.

          • Nov 21, 20139:08 pm
            by jamesjones_det

            @Tim Can we grow up and stop with the insults and debate like two people or is that to much ask? 
            I thought 20 percentage points difference on a post needed explanation, you think a blanket F on my post needs explanation so here it is:
            Was it close for 3 quarters and did some people look good during that time?  YES, but when it came down to the final quarter and the last 8 minutes when it really mattered this team completely failed to execute on both ends of the floor. 
            let’s go through the 4th quarter offenders one by one:

            Stuckey – Played great for 3 quarters then the 4th happened.  Two turnovers and two bad fouls with the game on the line, I don’t think this really needs much more explaining.  For a time during that game I actually started to think Stuckey might have finally figured it out but then the old Stuckey checked in and any chance of winning the game checked out.
            Drummond/Smith/Monroe (I put this one on all three) – Twice they just watched as Teague drive down the lane for a simple layup.  This happened with other players at other points in the game but in the 4th that’s just not acceptable.
            Jennings – He might as well not been on the floor defensively because Teague went wherever he wanted to.  Sure Jennings tried to poke the ball away from behind after watching his man blow by but once that failed he was done trying to stop anyone.  Offensively he wasn’t a catalyst either, he would either dribble the ball too much or pull up for a bad shot.  I might be expecting to much from him but starting point guards should be able to direct a half court offense in crunch time.
            Smith – All I can think of is him grabbing an offensive rebound 5ft from the basket and instead of working his man he dribbles 20ft out and pulls up for a contested jumper.  He did have a nice step in front steal with about 7 to go in the 4th but his switching and help side seemed to disappear after that.
            Monroe – Couldn’t hold on the ball to save his life in the 4th and defensively he was often late to step out on a switch.
            Drummond – Offensively he didn’t have a big impact, in his defense he’s not going to get a play run for him in the 4th (or maybe ever in a game) but defensively I just felt like he wasn’t doing a good enough job of protecting the rim in the 4th (as noted previously).
            KCP – Did he play tonight?  All I saw was him trying to challenge Jerry Stackhouse for the most bricked 3 pointers in a game as a Piston.  Defensively he didn’t standout and he didn’t really add much when it came to slowing down guard penetration.
            Cheeks – It’s early but so far this team can’t play a lick of defense and he seems content to let Jennings and Smith make bad decisions with seemingly no consequences.  Is this his fault or are the players just not listening or is it something else.  Either way it’s his job to ensure this team can be cohesive and execute against a team that should have been beatable.

            Is a blanket F a bad comment for the game as a whole?  Yes, but their execution down the stretch was awful, even Stuckey who was having a good game seemed to fall off the wagon in the 4th when the game was on the line. A complete lack of execution when the game mattered makes me want to grade the whole team with a F because the people that matter most to this team failed as a whole.  Is it fair?  Nope, but wasn’t trying to writing a blog about player performance.  I was instead expressing my discontent with the way the team is playing right now.
             

          • Nov 22, 20132:08 am
            by Max

            There’s something to all this but they can’t just give everyone an F and if not should at least be reserved for a game like the one against the Warriors.  Maybe just a grade lower for everyone or whatever.  Why argue about the grades so much when you’re making an extreme point?
            On the other hand, I agree with you; the team sucks right now! Go Pistons! 
             

          • Nov 22, 20132:15 pm
            by jamesjones_det

            @Max I agree with you, fighting about grades is pointless and what I thought was inconstant grading in the previous games grades spiraled into this crazy discussion/debate but to be honest I don’t come on this board for the grades and I should have just dropped it.
             
            I just at no point in the 2nd half really felt like the Pistons were going to win (hoped but didn’t feel) so given that frustration I just said everyone on this team blows here’s an F, but I’m with you I just want this team succeed and chat about the team in general and I shouldn’t get caught up in the little things.
             
            cheers!
             
             

  • Nov 20, 201311:24 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    sorry, but this guy knows nothing about basketball…or about grading anything.
    i will still read the blog to interact with other posters, but thilke, or whatever his name is, is a ridiculous source to have on one’s blog, as far as evaluating performance is concerned.  some of his stuff is just plain stupid.  don’t care how he tries to couch it, it is just plain dumb.

  • Nov 20, 201311:26 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    oopps…sorry…i libeled thilke, when i should have been talking about the boy wonder, draper.  my bad.
     

    • Nov 21, 201312:49 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      Btw,  i want to apologize to draper for pisting something so rude and messed up.
      I disagree with your view but should never have stooped to that level.
      All i can do is blame it on the local portland brewpub, alameda, for brewing such a great imperial ipa, their “dire wolf ipa”, @ 9.5 abv, and enticing me to have more than one.
      Again, my sincerest apologies for being an a@@.

  • Nov 20, 201311:40 pm
    by dziubaru

    Reply

    I thought Harrellson actually looked pretty good out there tonight. He was mostly in the right spot on D, he’s a big body, and showed that outside shot

  • Nov 20, 201311:40 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    I don’t want to pick on you, but I had some issues with this write-up too.
     
    1) You don’t need to be such a stickler on grading that guys who played 1/8 of the game can’t get letter grades. I mean, it’s half a quarter, and all season long we’ve had a rotation player who plays about that much to spell our awful big man rotation. It’s not like these guys played one minute. Siva’s six minutes were enough to net him a +11, so it’s hard to buy that his PT was so negligible that he can’t get a grade.
     
    2) Speaking of which, it’s hard to shake the feeling that the guy must have done something right to be +11 in an 8 point loss. I didn’t really see it, but I’m not the one handing out grades.
     
    3) I get the feeling someone is a Monroe fan with that fat + sign next to his D. I guess you can say that Smith hurt the team more by taking twice as many misses, but 7 points and 4 rebounds from Monroe makes me want to slit my wrists. I swear to God I’d pay $1000 cash to have his slow ass traded by the deadline.
     
    4) Cheeks is a nightmare. Frank was probably a better man for the job. I’m actually beginning to wonder what life would be like if Michael Curry had been given another season. I mean, he was awful and came off as borderline illiterate, but I don’t see how he could have been worse than this parade of losers. It’s mind boggling.
     
    5) So much dead weight out there. I guess Gigi had a good game tonight for the first time, but he shouldn’t be playing PF. Singler and KFC have been duds. Rotteny Sucky is the lone bright spot this season, but it’s not like Joe is ever actually going to cash in on the guy, so who can even muster the energy to give a damn. Too many years waiting for this “payoff” that’ll either be an illusion or the real deal, but either way we’re not going to capitalize on it. He’ll either walk at the end of the season or get another extension we’ll regret.
     
    6) This is much worse than even I, Otis, imagined. And I’m not seeing any bright spots that actually mean anything. Does anyone else think we might actually get to see the old Piston fans’ wet dream of the owner forcing Joe to figure out a way to coach this revolving door mismatched mishmash of talent? I’ve wanted to see it for at least five years. You built this machine. Show us how it’s supposed to work.

    • Nov 20, 201311:51 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      I don’t want to see Joe try to coach, I’m betting it would be just as bad as Cheeks. I think the best case scenario for this season is that Joe keeps towing the company line that they just need time and things are just about to turn around. Then, near the dealine, when Gores realizes the team is a steaming pile, he fires Dumars and has his replacement sell off Jennings, Stuckey, and Smith for whatever picks he can get. The team then actively tanks the second half of the season to keep their pick in the top 8.

      At this rate, we might be bad enough to land an actual star player. Honestly take Stuckey out of the equation and we are probably right in the thick of things for worst record.

      • Nov 21, 201312:01 am
        by Otis

        Reply

        Oh don’t get me wrong. I don’t think Joe COULD coach this mess. I just think it should be on his fat ass to TRY and make it work. I want to see him try and fail, because the pieces aren’t there. The pieces haven’t been there since 2008. Joe has put nobody in a position to succeed, and everyone gets thrown under the bus except for Joe.
         
        Personally, I don’t think you can move Smith or Jennings right now. And I don’t think you necessarily should. I also would rather eat a handful of my own shit before trusting on blind faith that Drummond and Monroe are a duo worth building around. My plan of action would be to trade Stuck and Moose as soon as humanly possible, take a look at Smith and Drummond at the power positions, and hopefully whatever we get for Moose can take some of the playmaking pressure off of Jennings. It’s a pipe dream, because recent history indicates that we’ll stand pat at the deadline and just cross our chubby fingers that things will get better. And they won’t.

        • Nov 21, 201312:45 pm
          by Tim Thielke

          Reply

          I don’t like Dumars as GM. But one point all the pro-Dumars fans make is accurate. If Detroit cuts bait with him, he will have a new job offered to him. Mocking and shaming him on his way out would be really stupid. It could potentially cost future Detroit teams when they try to trade. Besides that, he brought many good times to Detroit, both as a player and a GM. He should be celebrated as he is shown the door.

          • Nov 21, 20131:51 pm
            by Otis

            LOL agree to disagree here, bud. He’s been compensated WAY more than enough for the good he did here a full decade ago. The fact that he’s still employed and making millions of dollars for literally doing nothing to help the team since 2005 is a testament to that.
             
            I am richly and deeply anti-Dumars, and I agree he’ll get snatched up in a heartbeat and probably have success elsewhere, because that’s just the way these things work. But that is NOT a good argument for keeping him. He’s not getting the job done here, and he’ll continue to not get the job done here. He’s too close to all the problems of the last five years to actually solve them. I mean, the damage is mostly done, but we can’t possibly keep this up and let the deadline pass without a significant trade… can we?
             
            Speaking of which, if we trade Monroe, just like Dumars I’m sure Moose will go somewhere and thrive. He’ll put up 17 and 8 for a decade playing center full time somewhere. It’s just not going to happen in this environment. Not on this team, not next to Smith and Drummond, not at PF. The cookie just crumbles this way sometimes, and it’s important to suck it up and recognize that how these guys do elsewhere can’t impact decisions this franchise makes. Sometimes you just luck into two quality players at the same position in semi-consecutive drafts and you have to trade one of them to build around the other.

          • Nov 21, 20132:09 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            “But that is NOT a good argument for keeping him.”

            Did you even read what I posted. It was very for getting rid of Dumars. But doing so graciously and professionally, instead of trying to humiliate him.

            Besides being smart business-wise, that’s just called being a good person/organization.

          • Nov 21, 20133:41 pm
            by Otis

            LOL I did read it, and once I was done writing I thought to myself, “He’s going to think I didn’t read what he wrote.” Then I posted it anyways, ’cause I gotta do me. If I can’t indulge my own tangents, who will?
             
            But in terms of respect versus humiliation, they could be all the difference in the world if it comes down to “Respect = let his contract run out” and “Disgrace = fire his sorry ass before he lets the trade deadline pass.” It’s not about trying to humiliate him at all, it’s about trying to mitigate the damage he’s likely to do by being desperate, incompetent, and too close to all the problems this team is facing and will continue to face by staying the course.
             
            I guess I was thrown off a little, because I don’t think humiliation is the main reason you put him in the coach’s chair. It’s a 50/50 split with basically saying, “You put this crap together. You’ve overhauled the roster TWICE in five years and hired four different fools to coach it, and it’s not working. So if there’s some way to make it work, show me. Make it work. Or go away already.”

          • Nov 21, 20133:58 pm
            by Max

            Better to order Dumars to make a trade then to disgrace Dumars by firing him and bringing in a new GM who won’t value the players and will think of himself as having five years to turn things around as he makes a trade or trades before the deadline before he’ll even have a reasonably period to look at the roster.  A new GM is likelier than not in my view to just dump everyone on the roster for future picks and expiring contracts and think in terms of blowing everything up.  Do we really want to start over completely as if Dumars has done nothing worth building upon?  

        • Nov 21, 20132:23 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          That wasn’t his real point, Otis.   He was saying that if the Pistons treat Dumars with respect on his way out that he is more likely to make deals with the Pistons in the future—think Kevin McHale handing the Celtics their only championship of the past couple of decades because he had a relationship with Danny Ainge and was a Celtic at heart.  Conversely, the Pistons treated Isiah Thomas like shit on his way out and I don’t think he ever made a deal with the Pistons when he was a GM.  

          • Nov 21, 20132:38 pm
            by Tim Thielke

            Partly that and partly treating people with respect is just the right thing to do.

          • Nov 21, 20133:33 pm
            by Max

            I’m with you, Tim, on treating people with respect and still have the ultimate respect for Dumars.   He’s one of my favorite players of all time and has his fingerprints on every Pistons’ championship and finals appearance and no one can say the same. If Dumars goes there will be basically no longer any connection to their glory days and their brain trust could be as bad as any incoming expansion team.  There’s also no one I can think of who could be hired as new GM who would inspire any confidence whatsoever but if he has to go: I would hope the franchise could avoid alienating another of their greatest contributors ever.  The Pistons would prove themselves to be an utterly classless organization if they treated Dumars poorly.   Either way, I hope he keeps the his job because if he doesn’t I would predict that the team will clean house, fail to build anything around Drummond, lose him eventually as soon as he can figure his way out and ultimately be awful for the next couple of decades at least–it will be like a curse because if people think great players don’t want to come to Detroit now; imagine how few players will come to Detroit when there is no longer anyone in the organization with any prestige or accomplishments.  
            BTW:  If Dumars can manage to stay in his seat and the Pistons can somehow win a title by 2019 (which doesn’t seem all that likely right now but isn’t completely far fetched if Drummond becomes the league’s best center) I believe they will become the first franchise in NBA history to win a title in four straight decades and if they do: Dumars will be deserve more credit than anyone.       

    • Nov 21, 201312:36 am
      by D_S_V

      Reply

      You need to ease up on your agenda. Disagreeing with Monroe’s D “+” over Smith’s “-” is just paltry. 

      • Nov 21, 20131:15 am
        by Otis

        Reply

        I’m not the one with the agenda. I saw two D performances tonight. Er, more like ten, but two among Smith and Monroe.

  • Nov 21, 201312:03 am
    by zdwtr

    Reply

    we are bad right now but better than last year. the players got potential to mesh together under the right coach. the latents level are definitely higher. give them time to play together for 20 games and we’ll see more of a system.

  • Nov 21, 201312:20 am
    by Windy

    Reply

    Sadly the way it looks right now (team is getting worse daily) we could be a bottom 8 team in the league…we’re in massive need of capable shooters and guys willing to give it their all for an entire game…
     
    This offence is borderline highschool, I see no creativity, no movement and no changes by the coach…Sit Josh Smith for taking long deuces yet you run plays where the guard dribbles 15 seconds off the clock before the team settles into whatever ugly set twy are trying for essentially kicking it out to Smith who is standing near the three point line with 8 secs to go in the shot clock…mind boggling…
     
    pretty obvious that the three bigs can’t be on the court at the same time with this type of offence and complete lack of shooting…having Jennings and moose on the court at the same time is basically like waving the white flag on D…these guys have no hustle, refuse to learn the basics and are more or less hoping their man misses the shot or they get bailed out by their teammates…bring on a lineup of Siva, Stuckey, Datome, Smith and Dre…I had hope for Pope but his shot selection is brutal and really nothing has fallen for him since he left college…you gotta believe he will he off the shnide consisering he is known as a good shooter…
     
    this is getting uglier daily and I don’t trust Cheeks to lead us out of it…but literally what do you do? Fire Cheeks? 
    Maybe the only way we balance this team is by moving Moose for a more traditional SF who can shoot…trade him before the deadline or we simply let him walk and get NOTHING in return OR sign him to MAX money and live with this mess for 4-5 more years with about 5mil in remaining money to fix these glaring holes in the team…im in the trade Moose boat…there is just no way Moose and Dre can play PF AND C TOGETHER…at least Smith can play PF along side Dre…

  • Nov 21, 201312:41 am
    by haydzzz

    Reply

    If Kyle Singler stepped up in this game I wonder how good the standard kyle singler is lol

  • Nov 21, 20131:47 am
    by J2sports

    Reply

    I would say hindsight is 20/20, but I really never wanted to get rid of Brandon Knight in the first place.  I watched almost every Pistons game last  year and B. Knight frustrated the heck out of me with his turnovers.  Most those turnovers from playing too fast. (Even though he’s gone, we still have turnover issues.) Sure he doesn’t have the vision as Jennings, but right now, aside from the nice lobs to Drummond, Jennings wasn’t worth the trade.  We’ve all seen the game tonight and Jennings held the ball too long.  Wide open drives to  the right he could’ve taken to the cup, but wait, he can’t drive  right.  A fast break where he had and easy layup (with the right hand I might add) instead he floats the ball instead because it was a baseline drive and a bad angle to attempt a left handed layup.  This dude would destroy me and a one on one game, but I can at least use both hands.   Don’t get me started on the D.  This dude is whack as hell man.  Ridiculous.  He does nothing.  You could put a piece of paper on the floor and it could play better defense.  

  • Nov 21, 20133:01 am
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    I like the Josh Smith signing. We’re Detroit, we’re not getting a better player than that when we open up the all-coveted cap space for free agency. And, he’s actually pretty good! Shot selection sucks, but what he brings to the table overshadows what he takes away. Seeing that we’ve already lost our next draft pick, we might as well have picked up the best guy we could have landed. We’re not losing games because of Josh Smith.
    There is a good team here. Somewhere. I’m just not convinced Cheeks is the right guy to figure it out. And for that alone, I think Dumars should be fired if we fail to both make the playoffs and land a top-8 pick.
    I’m predicting a deal for Stuckey, and possibly Monroe, in the next few months. Dumars will go down swinging, future of the team be damned. 

  • Nov 21, 20134:05 am
    by tile

    Reply

    We clearly did not watch the same game! Datome was horrible defensively and got owned by Millsap numerous times. Siva was terrible as well. He was completely clueless on offense and let the clock run down to 10 or 11 second before initiating some kind of offense. And that was a high pick and roll which resulted in him giving up the ball to another player with 5 or 6 seconds left. That’s not all his fault of course, but he did not show me any playmaking  instincts tonight like he did in Summer League.

  • Nov 21, 20134:07 am
    by Hook Shot

    Reply

    Windy is right. I have been sayin all along that the 3 bigs cannot coexist because of spacing issues. Monroe does not have an outside game right now; he is just chucking shots up there. They need to start Gigi at the 3 and one of the bigs needs to go to the bench. Jennings looks like he needs to get stronger. He finishes  poorly in traffic and gets abused defensively especially on pick and rolls. Why Cheeks was chosen to lead this team is a mystery to me. He makes Franks look like a genius. The offensive sets are pitiful and the defense is atrocious. Monroe needs to go for a/some wing players. 

  • Nov 21, 20134:48 am
    by MrBlockedShot

    Reply

    @Desolation Row I totally agree with you. I think this team is playing like a mess but not because they’re not good players. I think that the right pieces have not fallen into place yet and we’re  even missing some of them. I think most players had to change their game to adjust to the requirements from the Dumars/Cheeks combo. Some examples:
    -Smith is taking that many shots cos…
    1) He likes to shoot, no doubt. 
    2) All the defense concentrates on the zone and nobody is able of hitting them from the perimeter . Many times he ends up with the ball in his hands wondering what to do with it, with few seconds on the clock.
    3)He has to play the PF possition when he’s more kind of a SF/PF combo. He has never been an efficient shooter, and this situation doesn’t benefit him of course.
    -Monroe/Drummond are two centers who have to play most of the time with another C. Monroe is being exposed for not finding his touch from some feet away of the rim, and Drummond is being exposed for not being able to hit a free-throw. Please bench/trade one or another.
    -We don’t have a real SF : Smith is not a true SF, Singler is playing his WORST basketball ever and our chance is to play Datome more minutes.  Please play Datome or get Granger/Turner
    -We don’t have a real SG: KCP is only a rookie and we can’t ask him to save the team. He needs to adjust to being a pro and has to work really hard on his shot, which has been erratic to say the least. Playing a real SG would decrease that terrible combo of bad shot selection/rushed shots from Jennings and made his shot selection better.  Please get someone capable of hitting a shot on a consistent bassis.
    -So far our best player and shooter has been Stuckey, and probably one of the best players so far. I’ve never been a Stcukey’s fan but I have to admit this one is one of his best seasons. We’re playing him as a PG (awful) or SG near the rim, not spacing the floor.
    Right now I would keep Jennings and Smith, but most likely get something as soon as possible for Stuckey/Villanueva/Monroe (or Drummond). And of course, I doesn’t seem to me that Cheeks is going to take this team to any playoff spot…
     
     

  • Nov 21, 20136:51 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    poor coaching again….. this is unexpected loss…
    we.lead and we.lost…. wtf

    • Nov 21, 20131:55 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Dom, please get used to this. I don’t want to read comments all season about how we should have won games that we should not have won. The Hawks are better than the Pistons. The Lakers are better than the Pistons. When the dust settles, the lowly Knicks will probably be better than the Pistons. The Pistons are not a good team. They will lose a lot of games this season to mediocre teams, because those teams are better. Best to accept it now.

      • Nov 22, 201310:57 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        When the dust settles?  what dust?  The Knicks are basically the same team as last year.  Chandler out hurts, but they should be better than a kobe-less Lakers and they are not.  Seems like if any of the teams mentioned have dust to settle its the Lakers waiting on their best player to come back and/or the Pistons starting a brand new group and coach.  Lakers/Hawks being better (how much better and with/without Kobe is probably more debate worthy, but not worth getting into based on your cemented stance on anything remotely positive for the current Pistons team) isn’t a bad assertion, but I don’t see the Knicks getting much better being any more likely than the Pistons improving.  The Knicks have a worse record on a similar level of difficulty in schedule than the Pistons with far less change in the make up of the team to blame.

  • Nov 21, 20137:03 am
    by Corey

    Reply

    I was optimistic when they hired Cheeks- how bad could a guy with a lifetime .500 coaching record be, right? Well, it’s early, but it appears all those saying it was a terrible hire are right. Good lord. This team can’t play D OR run an offense. And what is up with having Harrellson, Datome, and Singler on the court together? I was listening on the radio, but it sounded like all 3 were in together for at least several minutes. Yikes!  I think a strong coach could get a lot out of Smith and Jennings- the talent is there. But who is going to harness it? Not Smith and Jennings on their own.
    For the first time, I’m wondering if the “fire JoD” crowd has it right. This could turn into a steaming pile, and fast. If it does, I can’t imagine a good argument to keep him.
     
     

  • Nov 21, 20138:22 am
    by Pistons87

    Reply

    Monroe = F His defense was just flat out horrible last night.  If I’m an opposing coach I’m running a pick and roll against Monroe and Jennings every time down the court.  Offense sucked last night as well.
    Smith = D- Only his slightly better defense gets him a higher grade.  At least he can defend the PNR when he’s a PF.
    Jennings = D Teague blew by him at will last night.
    Dre = C Still our best player.  He got more touches on post ups last night but proved he still has no idea what to do with them.  Horford shut down the alley oops last night.  I love that guy.
    KCP= C He got good looks just didn’t knock them down.  This grade is about the defense.
    Siva = B In his limited minutes he played great defense on Atlanta’s PG
    Singler = C He played a well rounded game.  He’s shooting 16% on 3′s.  Even the little things aren’t going to matter much longer if he can’t start hitting.  He needs a benching soon.
    Datome = C- He should not have been guarding Milsap.
    Stuckey = B- Continues to be a bright spot, if not for the turnovers (which is really unusual for him) his grade would be higher.  Only reason we were in this game at half time.
    Jorts = C He was effective in his minutes.  Is it sad that he plays considerable better defense then Monroe in his only 6 minutes of the season.  He moved on defense well, didn’t lose his man, cut off driving lanes and played the PNR effectively.  He did this despite not being athletic, just by being aware and his technique.  Greg should have been taking notes.
     

  • Nov 21, 20139:13 am
    by Lee

    Reply

    Thanks Vince, for noticing what Siva did right.  Sorry, Tile, but I can’t agree he was lousy on setting up offense.  I don’t see how you can compare last  night to Summer League, where he  was the starting point guard, with players who were willing for the most part to accept their roles, playing against teams who were either rookies or first year NBA players.  There’s a BIG adjustment to playing in the NBA that a total of 17 minutes in 2 games has not yet given him.  Nevertheless as Keith Langlois tweeted: ”Pistons plus-11 in Siva’s 6 minutes. Might have had something to do with playing alongside Stuckey all that time. But still.” 
    Last night I watched particularly watched Jennings on defense just to see why some people are saying Siva is so bad.  Wow.  He can never keep up with the man he is supposed to be defending.  He runs, but is always behind, not in front.  Sometimes he is not even watching.  Consequently his man gets away, scores, or sets up play for someone else.  
    What would happen if someone had the guts to make Jennings a shooting guard and require him to shoot only and bring in a real point guard  to play with either Jennings or Stuckey as shooting guards.  Wish Chauncey could be allowed to be the point guard but he seems to have difficulty being fast enough.  Siva, like KCP, needs to get minutes off the bench to adjust to NBA game,like I believe they can.  Wish someone would step in like Gores and demand changes by the trade deadline.   

    • Nov 21, 201312:14 pm
      by tile

      Reply

      Lee, I am not comparing the NBA and Summer League per se. I just think that Siva showed some very promising playmaking signs in Summer League and that is an environment which makes it hard for Point guards to look good. There is no Team chemistry, everybody is playing for contracts, no real set Plays are established and yet Siva managed to look like a true point guard. He didn’t yesterday. He didn’t call any plays (and I have to assume that there are some, Mo Cheeks, right???) and wasted the shot clock, making it hard for his teammates to do something meaningful with the clock winding down. Since he can’t shoot his pick and rolls, especially when they are a few feet behind the three point line, are easy to defend, because you just have to guard the roll guy. Lots of these things can be fixed and I liked his defensive effort, but yesterday he did not deserve anything better than a C Overall, imo.

    • Nov 21, 20136:12 pm
      by Kathy Clater

      Reply

      Keith Langlois ?@Keith_Langlois 1h
      If you’re a point guard, it’s not easy to impress #Pistons coach Mo Cheeks. Peyton Siva passes muster … http://tinyurl.com/k8uchdw 

  • Nov 21, 20139:35 am
    by anacaniwelk

    Reply

    Brandon Jennings has career highs in assists, steals and rebounds for the season. Jennings is better than advertised and such an upgrade over Knight

    • Nov 21, 20139:48 am
      by domnick

      Reply

      yeah but he is jacking up too many shots… a good point guard needs to play with composure and not being inefficient… he’s an upgrade over knight.. but he is still brandon…

      • Nov 21, 201310:40 am
        by anacaniwelk

        Reply

        Who do you want Jennings passing it to that he isn’t already. Drummond is absolutely useless offensively, Monroe can’t score away from the basket, some people hate Smith shooting the ball, Pope can’t knock shots down yet, Singler and Jerebko can’t shoot well.  Jennings is making the best of a bad situation.

    • Nov 21, 201312:17 pm
      by tile

      Reply

      These are all misleading stats. Look at his shooting percentage! And I’m sure statistics guys could Point to a very bad True Shooting Percentage.

      • Nov 22, 201312:54 pm
        by Patti #1

        Reply

        Misleading stats?  So nothing is important except FG%?  OK…he shot .429%  40% 2pt and 50% 3pt.
        Plus all those other misleading stats.
        Jennings does not and will not ever put up the stats that Chris Paul does, but he’s also making a third of what he makes…so I guess it’s all relative.
         
         
         

    • Nov 22, 20132:24 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      If he played D I would agree with you but as it is right now Jennings is a liability on that end of the floor.  I’m sure if he put his mind to it he could at least be an ok defender but right now he might as well just camp for a board or camp for a run out because he doesn’t provide much when trying to slow his man down, flat footed and little effort to prevent penetration.
       
      Knight wasn’t much better but he at least looked like he was putting forth an effort on D, I can’t say the same for Jennings.

  • Nov 21, 201310:02 am
    by PistonManiac

    Reply

    The writer must have a serious love affair with Singler. Singler has never defended well, he’s none athletic and slow. Not sure what game is watching.
    BTW, told you guys Smith was cancer. He isn’t a winner. ATL had no desire to even make an attempt to sign this cat. Now Detroit is stuck

    • Nov 21, 201311:00 am
      by anacaniwelk

      Reply

      Smith is a cancer????? What a loser comment.  You’re a cancer on this message board.

  • Nov 21, 201312:37 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    Anyone willing to move Monroe back home to New Orleans? Some package of Ryan Anderson, Aminu and like a backup point guard..I assume they woul like to dump the fragile Eric Gordon but at this point I may be willing to take him lol…
     
    Also get a handle on Jennings, bottomline…I understand he plays an unorthodox style of ball that somehow works for stretches but shot choice and his constant habit of getting in the air before he decides what he is doing causes TO and massive lapses in the game…for all the stretches of good he goes he gets ugly quick and gives it right back…control his shot selection…

    • Nov 21, 20132:36 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Ryan Anderson isn’t a good enough return for Monroe. Aminu doesn’t move the needle. Detroit doesn’t need a backup PG, they already have 5 PGs on the roster. Adding in Eric Gordon makes salary matching virtually impossible. Both the Pistons and Pelicans have already traded away a first rounder making it hard for either side to sweeten a deal. And I’m sure Davis is untouchable.

      The only trade with New Orleans I can think of that makes any sense is to capitalize on Stuckey’s hot start by swapping him and Villanueva for Gordon.

      If you’re dead set on moving Monroe, you need a return like Gallinari+Faried.

      • Nov 21, 20132:50 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        I look at Gallinari and Gordon as the walking wounded even when they are playing because they are going down sooner than later.  No thanks regarding guys who are always hurt.    Say what you want about Monroe but he’s an iron man and you don’t get better by trading an iron man for players who won’t even be playing.  

      • Nov 21, 20133:52 pm
        by Otis

        Reply

        Frankly, I’m not that sold on Gallo + Faried. I mean, it’s better than keeping Moose, but that’s not the return I’m looking for. I’d love a first rounder, particularly this year but I’ll take a future pick. And I’d like to take back a productive wing on a favorable contract. Gallo’s contract isn’t very favorable, and it’s hard to get excited about a PF coming back as a major piece, since we’ve got only 12 backup PF minutes to go around after Smith slides in.
         
        Honestly I kind of hate this new CBA with its weird four year cap. That’s not a very long time to have a player under control. Five years (with that extra year for teams extending its own players) made more sense. I’ve heard arguments against college ball based on rosters turning over every four years, and while this isn’t exactly the same, it sets the precedent for that to become the norm. The upside is that you can’t get too badly burned by having summers like ours in 2009, but I’d rather see rules in place that maximize the game when it’s managed correctly rather than minimizing the damage incompetent GMs can do. Because if they’re incompetent, they’ll figure out a way to screw things up regardless. See: Joey D.

        • Nov 21, 201310:10 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          You might not respond to me but I’d love see a list of productive wings on favorable contracts.    I’ll try making a list myself and I’ll include a full list of every decent wing in the league and put the only real possibilities who would actually help the Pistons and could actually be traded in bold.  
          Jeff Green  -  9 million, runs through 2016: not sure how much he moves the needle
          Paul Pierce – 15 million, free agent after this year: too old.  
          Joe Johnson – 25 million! in 2016: too old even without the ridiculous contract
          Carmelo Anthony – 21 million, free agent after this year: will never come to Detroit
          Iman Shumpert – Rookie deal though 2016: He’s a good player to get but Monroe is worth so much more.
          J.R. Smith –  6 million through 2016: Adding another shot happy, no conscious jerk is not a good idea. 
          Thaddeus Young -9 million though 2016: Redundant with Smith and not a good enough shooter.  
          Evan Turner – 9 million qualifier next year:  Not a good enough shooter.
          DeMar DeRozan – 10 million through 2017: Not a good enough shooter.
          Rudy Gay – 19 million though 2015: Not a good enough shooter.
          Luol Deng – 14 million going into free agency: Too often hurt.
          Jimmy Butler –  On rookie deal: The Bulls will never trade with the Pistons and he’s not worth Monroe.
          Dion Waiters – On rookie deal: Not the worst option but not worth Monroe.   
          O.J. Mayo – 8 million through 2016: I suppose the Pistons could do worse. 
          Paul George – 19 million in 2018: Untouchable.  
          Danny Granger – 14 million going into free agency: Always hurt and who knows what he has left? 
          Kyle Korver – 6 million though 2017: Not nearly worth Monroe.  
          LeBron James – 20 million going into free agency: Untouchable.
          Dwayne Wade – 19 million going into free agency: Untouchable  
          Moe Harkless – On rookie deal: Doesn’t shoot well enough.
          Aaron Afflalo – 7.5 million through 2015: Never should have been traded.   Viable option but Orlando should include more.  
          Bradley Beal – On rookie deal: Good player to trade for.  
          Otto Porter – On rookie deal: total mystery right now and definitely not worth Monroe.
          James Harden – 18 million through 2018: Untouchable
          Chandlers Parsons – 1 million through 2015: Not sure if Rockets would have any interest given that they have Howard but it might be worth investigating.  
          Tony Allen – 5 million through 2017: Doesn’t shoot well enough.
          Tyreke Evans – 11 million through 2017: Doesn’t shoot well enough.
          Eric Gordon – 15 million through 2016: Too often hurt and too big a risk with his contract.
          Danny Green – 4 million through 2015: Isn’t scoring so great this year and the Pistons would have to get a lot more.  
          Kawhi Leonard – 3 million through 2015: Worth doing but hard to see the Spurs parting with Leonard.
          Danilo Gallinari – 12 million through 2016: Always hurt with too risky a contract.  
          Wilson Chandler – 7 million through 2015: Always hurt and Monroe is worth much more.  
          Kevin Martin – 7 million through 2017.  Hard to see the Wolves dealing Martin right now and they don’t need Monroe.   
          Nicholas Batum – 12 million through 2016:  Viable option if the Blazers had any interest. 
          Wesley Matthews – 7 million through 2015: Viable option if Blazers are willing to add to the deal. 
          Kevin Durant – 21 million through 2016: Untouchable
          Gordon Hayward On rookie deal: Viable option if the Jazz were interested but they don’t need Monroe.
          Andre Iguodala 12 million through 2017: Would just never happen right now.  
          Klay Thompson – On rookie deal and the Warriors are not trading him. 
          Kobe Bryant 30 million and going into free agency: Nuff said.  
          Marcus Thornton 8.5 million through 2015: Not worth trading Monroe for is he’s the best player coming back.  
          Ben McLermore On rookie deal: Somewhat intriguing.
          Unless I left anyone out, that’s every wing with decent trade value in the league.   
           
           
           
           
           
           
           

          • Nov 22, 201311:15 am
            by Huddy

            To a lot of your “doesn’t hoot well enough”s I would add need more to make the deal work.  Derozan, Allen, Young, etc.  Those guys need a pick at least to make it work so you need another list of what kind of pick are you getting.  Theres only so many teams in the top 10-15 (especially with how many PHX has) and after that even a first rounder is only so sweet.  I would say though that when thinking of trade possibilities for Monroe the team doesn’t necessarily need to find a Kyle Korver level 3 pt shooter.  If spacing is the biggest concern it would be helpful to work with even Turner, Young, etc. because then you have a SF and PF who are at least pretty good from mid-range to stretch things out and can still have shooters off the bench to add in the mix.  The spacing issue for the team is more about being able to space beyond 5 ft then it is about going out to 3pt range.
             
            To add to your point though, any of the combinations you do come up with will have to then go through the process of deciding if that team has any playoff hopes even with Monroe this year and how much that is worth it to them to give up a “nice wing” and or picks when they can bid on him.  Even if the Pistons are guaranteed to match his offer he will likely remain the most trade-able Big (assuming Drummonds untouchable) since any team trading prior to his new contract would know that contract was coming anyway.
             
            IMO there are less options than Otis believes, making it less of an outrage that the trade hasn’t happened, but that doesn’t mean a good offer shouldn’t be accepted.  I am firmly in the “sure trading Monroe for a good wing and a pick sounds great, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are few of those options out there” camp.

    • Nov 21, 20132:47 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Any trade of Monroe that doesn’t land a very strong wing that can shoot and isn’t at all likely to be hurt would be terrible.   Therefore, this proposed trade is terrible.   Aminu sucks.  The Pistons have four backup PGs already.   The trade you’re proposing is just Monroe for Anderson straight up which leaves Smith at SF, helps with shooting but not defense, makes them worse at rebounding and makes the Pistons far less talented overall with less upside and potential.  
      That said, I really haven’t heard anyone suggest a reasonable trade with the Pistons getting back as much as they should for Monroe.   I think the real problem is that there are only a handful of wings with decent trade value in the league these days and most of them are not on the market.    I doubt a Batum trade will be made but that’s the kind of value I could accept as reasonable and equitable.  

      • Nov 21, 20137:12 pm
        by DetroitP

        Reply

        I don’t comment a lot but i read a lot, I agree with 95 percent of shit you say fyi.  Batum isn’t enough.  I don’t want to trade him unless its a legit stud.  Look at Hibberts improvement the last few years, bigs take time.

        • Nov 22, 20132:54 am
          by Max

          Reply

          Thanks.
          I’m not really in favor of trading Monroe by the way.  I was just responding to Otis saying he wants a wing on a reasonable contract like there are so many of them.   I also wanted to really see the list for myself since I’m open to Monroe being traded if the price was right.   The team isn’t working and it could help but the thing I disagree with is that the Pistons can’t sign him and bide their time till it’s the right time to shake things up involving any of the players whether that is now or in a year or two depending on how things evolve.  I just wouldn’t want Monroe to be traded without getting back something special and sometimes things like that take time and you wind up changing your mind about who should go as different possibilities open up.  I don’t think the timing is really ripe in terms of every other team in the league’s current situation combined with the Pistons’ current needs.   I also don’t think it’s out of the question yet that KCP or Datome can get it going or even that Monroe can improve and be a better player as a true veteran–he ain’t ever going to average 4 blocks though.  
          I have to say in terms of trading Monroe that I can’t see getting anything better straight up than Batum unless other pieces were involved.  I would do that deal right now because it could right the ship with a pretty talented more balanced core whether Monroe eventually really blossoms or not.  Batum also seems like he’d fit right into Dumars’ love for good character guys and that is really something the Pistons could use right now.  I really think he’d be perfect.  He can shoot, defend, knows how to move without the ball  and he plays with a high basketball IQ.   He’s a young player who’d be a model to the older Smith and he can do it all.  I’d love to hear what Frankie D would say about all this and whether there is any possibility that the Blazers would move him.           

  • Nov 21, 20133:12 pm
    by DG

    Reply

    Here’s a Monroe trade that works under the salary cap.
    NYK gets Greg Monroe, Charlie Villanueva and Rodney Stuckey: trade gives the Knicks a strong young player in Monroe and expiring contracts of Stuckey and Villanueva they need to re-tool.
    Detroit gets Carmelo Anthony: creates a front line of Anthony, Smith and Drummond.  Smith and Drummond negate some of Anthony’s weakness on defense while giving them a go-to scorer.  Joe gets a redo on the Darko draft.
    Do you do it if you’re Joe D?  Salaries line-up at $21M.  I’m assuming extensions on both Monroe and Anthony.

    • Nov 21, 20133:26 pm
      by Tim Thielke

      Reply

      Yeah, that set of players for LeBron works under the CBA too. But no way New York/Miami even considers either proposal.

      • Nov 21, 20133:37 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Plus, Anthony is a free agent soon, right?   Who thinks he would stay in Detroit?  

      • Nov 21, 20136:44 pm
        by Jens

        Reply

        LOL, plus, can aybody imagine Melo leaving New York? Maybe for the Lakers. BTW…I wouldn´t want a 30 year old Melo for 24 millions a year in Detroit.

    • Nov 21, 20133:56 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Believe it or not, I actually think there are players who would want to come here and play alongside Smith. Maybe ‘Melo is even one of those guys. They’d be a pretty exciting forward tandem. I just don’t see a market like New York pulling the trigger on a deal that sends away a Big Name superstar for someone as “unsexy” as Monroe.
       
      Furthermore, I think this team has a LOT to prove before anyone else is going to come here anytime soon. We need to balance the roster and get some things sorted out (Basically see how good we can be with Smith/Dre up front and some more talent on the wings) before anyone is going to want to commit to this awful team.

      • Nov 21, 20134:03 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Smith, Jennings and Melo would be just about the hardest trio of players ever assembled to root for.  If the Pistons are going to keep Smith and Jennings I can’t see adding any more prominent me-oriented selfish jerks.  

        • Nov 21, 20139:23 pm
          by jamesjones_det

          Reply

          Right on, I think this team needs to pickup at least one proven team player with this current teams makeup.  I don’t think adding another my numbers first guys is going to make this team better.

  • Nov 21, 20134:35 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    I don’t even want Melo if we have to pay him on the order of $24m per year- he’s not worth that much of your cap. NY is dead as long as they have him- why trade for that?

  • Nov 21, 20137:09 pm
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    I don’t understand why everyones freaking out.  We have lost games to teams that are good.  (Lakers game might be different but even they are playing well.)  Remember the Heat when they all got together how long it took them to figure it out?  (And no to the jackass who comments im comparing us to the Heat)  I’m just saying it takes time.  I do think we will make another move, but these guys have only played like ten games together?  Give it some time before freaking out trade Jennings he sucks, Moose blows, so much hate, by a bunch of people that haven’t played ball before.  Im not saying its going to work but im not counting them out ten games into a season.  The chemistry will have to be built, the point I notice is were in games until the end.  Which means these other guys know how to close out games.  Give them more time before you all wanna torch Jennings, people pulling up these random bullshit stats is lame too.  The kid KCP develops more would be huge.  And worse comes to worse we have so many assets that other people would want, but for now hold on and let them figure it out for another twenty games.

  • Nov 21, 20137:17 pm
    by shawn brown

    Reply

    in reference to the person that mentioned that the pistons will be worse than the knicks..I cannot believe you actually feel that way.   the pistons are 4 and 7 and that includes a western trip already out of the way…they are beating the teams they are supposed to beat and while I believe they should ve beat the lakers im not a fan that’s in full panic mode like everyone else seems to be.   
      I am concerned about the coaching but im willing to give cheeks a chance before we reference him in the same terms used to describe frank and kuester.     I actually think the pistons have played better with a combination of josh smith/Monroe or smith/ Drummond and the other big coming off the bench. 
      as for the constant dumars bashing, I am old enough to remember him as a player and during his time he was easily the second or third best shooting guard in the league during his prime.   I admit I view him through those glasses which is why im hesitant to bash him.     I enjoyed watching him as a kid growing up…he actually was an athlete you could look up to.     didn’t run his mouth , played hard and when the pistons started to hit the skids he didn’t bitch and moan about it and demand a trade like some athletes of today would have.
     to those that still say he cant draft I admit he has made mistakes but if you think that wade, Carmelo, or bosh would ve stayed with the pistons once their contract was up you are dreaming.  yes darko sucked but those guys would nt have stayed with the franchise anyhow.    
    I get a little sick of all the negativity with the pistons when outside of the red wings no team in Detroit has had more success in recent years and by that I mean from 2001 to 2008.     this team does not have the same resources the lakers and the other glamour teams have at their disposal yet they are the fifth ranked team in  all time wins by   franchises in NBA history.    
    its pretty simple , if you don’t like them then get off the bandwagon and when they start winning again which I believe will be sooner than later stay off the bandwagon.   
    not even 20 games in and the season is already over for some of you…that’s the type of bitterness I expect from lions fans not pistons fans.     
     
     

    • Nov 21, 20137:38 pm
      by Jens

      Reply

      I do appreciate your positive emotions toward the Pistons, Shawn! The problem is: After having some experience as a Basketball Player, fan and Coach on different Levels up to german first Division I think I can judge whether a Team is running smooth or not after watching 20 (!) preseason and season games so far. You may call that arrogant, but it´s pretty obvious in this case. this Team is not working!
      -Drummond is not as good already as we´d all hoped
      -Monroe HAS NOT progressed at all (jump shot, defense, athletic ability)
      -Smith is being put in a very uncomfortable Position on the Perimeter and is not responding well
      -Our WHOLE wing cast flatout sucks: Singler, Jerebko, KCP, Datome. All are Shooting poorly, most have no clue how to defend and NONE has th class to constantly impact the game from the bench
      -We have alot of guards, but except from Jennings and Stuckey (won´t last, though), they all are useless .
      The irony is, that I´d say Joe D has made his last mistake in 2011 when he drafted Brandon Knight. Since then. he did most things right, he is just playing catch upp with all the horrible mistakes he made between 2007 and 2010.

  • Nov 21, 20137:17 pm
    by Jens

    Reply

    I apologize in advance for a sort of overflowing post, but things are getting interesting. There is a very big Chance, that this thing is going to blow up right in Tom Gore´s face within the next 3 month. Those are the reasons imo:
    -Drummond is not as ready to be an NBA starter as everybody had hoped for any many imagined (me included). He is just starting to figure out how to Play pnr defense and has no clue about 1 on 1 defense. But there is hope he will get there in 2 years or so.
    -Monroe is hopelessly overstrained with the task of guarding an NBA 4 in general and doing that in pnr situations in particular.
    -Jennings is lacking defensive fundamentals
    -Billups is really old and worn down
    -Bynum has always been a poor Defender 
    -KCP is not ready to contribute on the NBA Level right now imo. His defense is overrated.
    All this leads to a well documented defensive desaster, particualarly defening the pick n roll. It was telling what Dominique Wilkins said about the Pistons D:” Astonishing! All you gotta do is let your big man set a high screen on your PG and he will have a layup at the rim. They can´t defend it! Haha!”
    And I think it cannot be fixed that easily! Moreover except from Josh Smith all the bigs are poor 1 on 1 defenders. Combine that with the fact we have a mediocre offense going at best and I predict no more than 35 , maybe just 30 wins. 
    Now with the richest draft in the last 10 years coming up  a lot of Teams are going to start tanking in february. So there is a BIG chance the Pistons finish exactly where it would be a desaster. Out of the Playoffs and far better than 8th pick.     
    And at some Point they gotta realize that! With that, what Tim wrote in mind (about releasing Joe D with dignity) Gores should go to Joe D and tell him:
    -Your contract is NOT going to be Extended
    -Please maximize our assets by bringing in draft picks/Young Talent by using Stuckey, Viilanueva and Monroe.
    -Then fire cheeks, let Sheed Coach the team and tank like there is no tomorrow. 
    -Let Dumars contract expire, throw a big Party for him and tell everybody it was time to move on 
     
    When, if ever, is Gores going to get it? Or will we be surprised and this Team is going to become a winner? I can´t imagine.

    • Nov 21, 20137:35 pm
      by jg22

      Reply

      Saying Drummond isn’t ready to be a starter makes no sense. He’s avg 12 points, 12 rebounds, and 2 steals, while leading the league in FG%.
      His defense was great last year, and he played a lot of times against starters, so I don’t see how him starting now has anything to do with his troubles on defense right now. 
      Remember he’s only 20, so he’s not going to be perfect in every area yet, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be starting when he’s giving you 12 and 12.
      Another thing is consider who is playing with. He’s got one of the worst defensive big men in the league up front next to him, and a PG who is playing some of the worst defense lately that I’ve ever seen. The result? Guards are getting into our paint at will, and PF’s are beating Moose inside at will. You can expect Drummond to guard 3 players at once AND protect the basket all by himself.
      Drummond is going to be fine on defense. He needs better defenders around him though.

      • Nov 21, 20137:46 pm
        by Jens

        Reply

        I am a MEGA Drummond fan as well. There´s nothing more I hope for concerning this Pistons Team than that he blossoms into a Superstar. But we have to stick to reality right now. He is putting up those numbers, I give you thet. But those stats do not Show you how inefficient he acts as one on one Defender and in the pick and roll. I got the Impression he has flaws in his head about all this stardom. I hope Sheed kicks them out of him. But watching Jordan Hill and Steven Adams easily dominate their matchups with him was pretty sour!

        • Nov 21, 201310:34 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          imho, this is strictly coaching.
          if drummond or monroe or smith was out of position routinely or occasionally was in the wrong place or did not rotate, then i would assign the blame to the players themselves.
          but what i’ve seen, and i’ve seen almost all of the games, all of the players are almost always out of position and they almost always fail to rotate.  this is coaching.  obviously, whoever is supposed to be in charge of the defensive scheme has not adequately coached his players.  they do not understand what they are supposed to do and when they are supposed to do it.  it is mass and utter chaos, defensively.
          coaching, plain and simple.

    • Nov 21, 20138:15 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      I agree with much of this, as usual, but the wheels fall off your comment at the end there. For one thing, you’re not going to announce to Joe that he’s on his way out and then trust him to make ANY decisions. I truly and deeply feel that a major sell-off (Stuckey, Monroe at a minimum; maybe others if someone wants them) and tanking like there’s no tomorrow would be the best thing for the health of the franchise. I’ve felt that way for quite some time, but the need to do so grows ever pressing when the difference between doing that and staying the course is getting a terrific potential cornerstone in the draft or nothing at all. I actually think Gores and the team could save some serious face by doing almost what you said, but having someone not named Joe do the selling. If it was presented as, “I gave Joe an honest chance and three years to turn the team around, and he didn’t get it done, so we’re scrapping everything and starting over next season,” that could reasonably fly pretty well with anyone and deflect some/all of the potential criticism that goes along with tanking.
       
      I admit I’m very scared that Gores just plain won’t ever “get it.” His first mistake was leaning on Joe at all, his second was not firing Joe, his third was trusting Joe to trade away a pick when the team was living in the lottery and had literally nothing going for it besides the draft. I say a prayer every night that Gores will figure this out and do something before it’s too late, but it’s been so evident from the first time he opened his mouth that he does not understand anything about basketball. :(

  • Nov 21, 20137:28 pm
    by jg22

    Reply

    I feel bad saying this, but you guys need to get some better analysts doing these grades. It seems like every night the grades are the exact opposite of what actually took place. 
    B- for Jennings??!!! Are you freaking kidding me?
    That was one of the worst games from a PG that I think I’ve ever seen, and by far the worst game Jennings has played as a Piston.
    The offense was a total mess with him at PG, and his defense was beyond bad.
    Conversely, I thought we played our best with Siva in the game, so I don’t know why he gets an INC. Same with Harrellson. You could argue besides Drummond that he was our best big man last night, and without a doubt I thought Siva was our best PG.
    I do agree with the Monroe/Smith grades, though I would’ve given Monroe an F. No defense, no effort, and only 7 pts 4 rebs, equals F

    • Nov 21, 20138:16 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Yeah, that plus at the end of Monroe’s D is beyond ridiculous.

  • Nov 21, 20138:34 pm
    by Chris

    Reply

    The Pistons have the pieces to be a good team. They have versatility and depth. At the moment, they have chemistry and role issues. 
    I stated before Drummond should go to the bench(with Jerebko inserted into the lineup at the three.) The Hawks game exposed the big frontcourt. Opponents can clog the lanes and watch as the wings launch bricks. On defense, the big frontcourt is slow on rotations.
    With Jerebko starting at the three, Monroe and Smith could and should work more in the post. Jennings would have more room to run the pick and roll. On defense, Jerebko would create flexibility;no more slow rotations.
    With Drummond not starting, the bench would be strengthened and offer more versatility. Billups,Stuckey, and Bynum would be the backup guards;with Singler,Datome,Drummond,and Harrelson in the mix at the backup forward/center positions. 
    The Pistons need to look no further than the Indiana Pacers. Stop launching jumpers and focus on the inside. Communicate with each other on defense.. 
     

  • Nov 21, 201310:53 pm
    by James

    Reply

    Max, from what you just posted is pretty much an indictment on the whole Damn league, lol, WHERE HAS THE LOST ART OF SHOOTING GONE? Rip Hamilton off of a double pin-down screen is just a distant but pleasant memory. SWISH!

    • Nov 22, 20133:03 am
      by Max

      Reply

      Rip was a great shooter and his game was pretty old school during his glory days with the Pistons.   You are right though about the general shooting from the wings these days but we are seeing some of the best shooting ever too with players like Curry and Durant.   Allen actually should have been on my list, and Mike Miller too but they would have gone into the category of too old.   I also decided not to include combo guard types and there are players like JJ Redick who can shoot.   

      • Nov 22, 20132:49 pm
        by jamesjones_det

        Reply

        I think Jeremy Lamb has potential to be on the list too but I doubt OKC would give him up for anything reasonable at the moment.  It’s hard to mess with their chemistry unless you are getting someone that is going to clearly put you over the top.  Cap wise it would be a difficult trade too but it could work if they felt like they wanted to ditch Perkins.

  • Nov 21, 201311:13 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    People think we are going to get some superstar from trading Monroe…Do you not see that it will never work with Monroe at PF with Dre in the Center…you wanna give up on Dre then your nuts…Monroe is a great trade piece but teams know he can’t play PF hence the Pistons are in a dilemma…advertise Monroe as the 24 Center who will put up 16-9-3, sounds awesome but the guy is a hack on D at PF…like I said we are not moving Dre and Smith is a way better fit at PF next to Dre is than Monroe (who by the way is looking at Max money at the end of the season)…go ahead and resign or match Monroe at 15mil and we will be stuck with this mess for 4-5 more years…these 3 bigs don’t work on the court together period…you wanna pay Monroe max money then he is starting…how is he doing at PF…sure he can score and whatnot here and there but my god were awful on D AWFUL…the guy whines after every play and is the last one back…sell now before he either walks and we get nothing or overpay for the same mess were in…
    We will probably not get a player BETTER than Monroe pound for pound but at the end of the day we have a team that doesn’t work…would you rather be awful but kept Monroe or a better team because we’re more balanced? 
    We are what we are, an overloaded paint team with no shooters…got balance this team and we will win…who would have thought Ben Wallace, Cliff Robinson, Mike Curry, Stackhouse and Atkins could win 50 games? They did because they were balanced…
    Any interest in Danny Green? 26 years old…Nic Batum(why would Portland trade him?)…seriously move Monroe to get us some balance…we can’t enjoy Monroe in the position were in…you don’t draft Dre and sign Smith in hopes of keeping Monroe…sell high like the Tigers did with Granderson…hate to see them leave but the TEAM is better which is what we want right? 
    What your solution? Trade Smith haha what has a better chance of doing damage Monroe at PF or Smith at PF? Dre is our Center…if you would prefer to trade Dre away to keep Monroe to play Center then your lost…

  • Nov 21, 201311:19 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    Max I would literally take over half the guys you stated above in a move for Monroe…anyway we could package Jennings and Monroe for Rondo and Green haha it’s late and I’m dreaming…

    • Nov 22, 20133:10 am
      by Max

      Reply

      Rondo and Green might be worth dreaming about.   I’m having a hard time reading Boston’s true intentions and I’d like to see Rondo play first though.  Also, as I stated in my list, I’m not sure about Green because a team of Rondo, KCP, Green, Smith and Drummond still doesn’t seem to have much shooting but I guess they’d look better defensively and that Rondo would really run the team the right way.  And also that if KCP started shooting well they’d shoot well enough.   If the team still is not clicking after another 15 games or so, I could see pursuing such a scenario hard.  

    • Nov 22, 20137:30 am
      by Jens

      Reply

      I LOVE that deal! The problem is, it´s not going to work for Boston like that. Always have in mind what Bill Simmons ever stated what he´d expect Danny Ainge to get back for Rondo:
      -at least 1 “blue chipper”
      -Cap relief
      -A high draft pick
      We cannot give them any high draft pick, but we can make up for it by giving them 1 1/2 “blue chippers” in Jennings and Monroe (I´d rather say that´s 2 times 3/4 of a blue chipper). But we have to give them Cap relief as well:
      so the deal would have to be:
      Rondo, Green and Gerald Wallace  for Monroe, Jennings, Stuckey and Villanueva
      That leads to a 15 man roster 2014/15:
      Josh Smith, Jonas Jerebko, Will Bynum, KCP, Chauncey Billups, Gigi Datome, Andre Drummond, Singler ,Harrelson ,Mitchell, Siva , Jeff Green, Rajon Rondo, Gerald Wallace
      The cap hit would be: 67 mio (lux tax at about 73 mio). If we tank and KEEP our first rounder, this is a competitive roster for the next 4-5 years. If Charlotte gets ist, we have a Little Problem, cause the only way to get an adaquate shooter would be to somehow get out of Jerebkos and Wallaces contracts.
      Bostons roster would be then:
      Monroe, Jennings, Bass, Lee, Avery Bradley, Crawford, Olynik, Sullinger + all their draft picks
      The cap hit would be: 37,6 mio

  • Nov 22, 20134:30 am
    by Jay

    Reply

    Play Siva more. Jennings horrible D is killing us. The 6 minutes with Siva in the lineup against the Hawks was the best overall I’ve seen Detroit play in any game this year. The ball moved on offense, no shots were forced, he doesn’t drive the lane and end up with the camera crew causing easy transition offense for the opponent, and he frustrates the opposing PG with his D.
    Everyone is constantly out of position when Jennings is in. I can’t imagine knowing where you’re supposed to be on the court when the PG is randomly dribbling around with no purpose. He makes everyone around him worse. His assists are very misleading. I’d literally rather see Siva start and bring Jennings off the bench.

    • Nov 22, 201310:02 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      Jay’s observation of B. Jennings is ever so keen: “he (Jennnigs) doesn’t drive the lane and end up with the camera crew causing easy transition offense for the opponent …
      This has happen no less than 6 times, each game that Jennings has played, except for maybe the Knicks game.
      I am finding that B. Jennings is too much of a showboat and he dribbles too damn much.

    • Nov 22, 20134:45 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

       I don’t see how this game evokes so much Jennings hate when he shot 9/21.   Jennings had a pretty efficient offensive game and gave up Teague’s season average (18) ppg…thats what lost this game?  Not Smith’s 5/15 shooting or KCP’s 1/9?  Jennings really needs to work on shot selection as a whole, but as far as the team looking lost…it does when everyone has the ball.  Stuckey takes wild shots and ill advised drives, Smith is constantly given the ball with 5 secs left, and in general guys aren’t hitting open looks no matter who is passing the ball.  As far as defense goes I never expected a lot from Jennings on defense.  I would like to see improvement, but I am more surprised by poor pick and roll defense and help defense…mostly team/communication issues that aren’t any one guys problem.  Even the parts that are Jennings 1 0n 1 defense can’t be the biggest problem if he is giving up 18 pts to Teague. 
       
      I am so confused as to why everyone is deciding Siva is some insane untapped resource.  He is a stellar defender?   based on what?  He has played 17 minutes of pro basketball.  11 of those minutes were against the Knicks 2nd and or 3rd string PG and between the two of them they attempted 8 shots the entire game (regardless of how was guarding them)…was that Siva’s amazing defensive effort?  He has never been a good offensive player facilitating or shooting…how on earth could he possibly work with the current line up if he can’t shoot from the outside?  His mystical intangibles that don’t show up on stat sheets need far more than 17 minutes to show he is worth anything in the league.

  • Nov 22, 20136:06 am
    by @GPMasters

    Reply

    Rondo and Jeff Green for Monroe, Stuckey and Villanueva works* and both sides get excellent value there.
    *On the Trade Machine

    • Nov 22, 20133:00 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      I’m against Rondo for many reasons but mainly just not knowing if he will A) play this year and B) be the same player.  If A and B become true he will be 29 before he has a chance to do anything for this team, that’s not horrible but if it takes a couple of years he could be on the downswing when this team has a chance to make a serious run.
       
      Jeff Green would be a nice catch out of that trade but I’m just not sure it’s worth gambling your future (next year cap space to make a moves) on a complete unknown in Rondo (just look at the Derick Rose situation and he was 23 when he messed up his knee).  Maybe if he’s all we can get but I would rather explore other options first.

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