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Pistons sign Josh Harrellson

The Pistons signed Josh Harrellson, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports:

To clarify: Harrellson’s deal with Detroit is for two years, with team option on second season. This year will have a partial guarantee.

Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe were the only Pistons who fit naturally at center, and with one open roster spot, it was apparent the Pistons would add a center, and that center is “Jorts.” Harrellson likely completes the roster the Pistons will take into the season.

Undrafted Drafted in the second round out of Kentucky, Harrellson had a nice 37-game run with the Knicks as a rookie in 2011-12. He was traded in the offseason to the Rockets, who waived him, signed by the Heat, waived by the Heat, signed by the Heat and waived by the Heat again after playing a total of six games.

Offensively, Harrellson is a stretch center. More than 40 percent of his shots have been 3-pointers, and he he’s made 32.8 percent of his attempts beyond the arc. There are indications the 6-foot-10, 275-pound Harrellson is a good defender, but that end of the floor is especially tough to evaluate for someone who has played just 571 NBA minutes.

Harrellson doesn’t project to be part of the Pistons’ rotation, because Drummond will start at center and substitutions will be staggered so Monroe gets the rest of the minutes at that position. At age 24 and possessing four years of college experience, Harrellson probably doesn’t have a huge amount room to improve. Hopefully, he provides depth behind Drummond and Monroe but is never needed because those two stay healthy.

58 Comments

  • Aug 20, 201310:19 pm
    by elshark81

    Reply

    Jorts was drafted in the 2nd round by New Orleans!
    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6439/josh-harrellson

  • Aug 20, 201310:21 pm
    by butterscotch

    Reply

    Smart move.

  • Aug 20, 201310:32 pm
    by RyanK

    Reply

    So with Smith and Monroe both ideally playing power forward while Drummond is on the floor, how is Charlie V going to get on the floor?  Is Smith going to play small forward while CV gets in the game?  Doesn’t seem likely

    I can see a situation where CV is traded.  Not only because we are heavy on power forwards and because it’s going to be hard to find minutes for him, but also because it’s would be a fan friendly move.   

  • Aug 20, 201310:36 pm
    by Karl

    Reply

    He is kinda undersized at 6’9″ ( not 6’10″ for sure)

    He is unathletic and rather clumsy

    He has conditioning issue as he has 15% body fat

    Much rather have someone like Cole Aldrich/Henry Sims/Hassan Whiteside. All three have higher ceiling n i see better fit         
     

    • Aug 20, 201310:50 pm
      by mike

      Reply

      What kind of potential are looking for from a 15th man?

      Harrellson is better than all 3 of those players, imo

    • Aug 20, 201311:38 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      He can knock down open 3′s and can hold his own on defence. With the big guys we have that play down low in the post I’d say he fits just fine for last big off the bench.

      • Aug 21, 201312:51 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        agreed. i recall being impressed when he got a bit of PT with the knicks.  
        he looked comfortable shooting from range – around 35% on a small sample size, but not bad for a big guy; right around what sheed used to shoot – and he seemed to have a little mean streak, like he didn’t mind contact.  and he seemed as though he knew the game, his own limitations and what he needed to do on the court.
        he reminded me of mehmet okur after a college semester of eating pizzas.
        exactly the kind of move joe should have made.  he’s a young guy with a bit of upside and he should fit well with the team’s other bigs if he ever needs to play. he could give the team the shooting from the front court, if he gets the PT.  i wonder if he’s gotten in better shape?  if he has, he could be a real gem and surprise.
        good, solid move by joe. 
        if he improves and becomes an asset it becomes an excellent move. 

        • Aug 21, 20131:46 pm
          by Huddy

          Reply

          Since they didn’t wait until just before the season to sign him he should have some time to work on conditioning with Arnie as well.  I would think getting more regular PT overseas recently might have helped with him being in shape, but either way he should be ok.

          • Aug 21, 20132:34 pm
            by frankie d

            hope so. sometimes that makes a huge difference.  
            udonis haslem was a porker in college and when he went for his first nba camp.  then he spent a year overseas.  he came back to the nba and was a totally different player, largely because he reshaped his body.  not saying or counting on harrellson doing the same, but one never knows.  contrary to what some folks seem to think, harrellson does have some nba skills – shooting, for instance – and if he is in shape and gets PT, who knows what he could offer. 

    • Aug 21, 20138:04 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      LOL! never seen so many people so interested in who we have on out roster as the 15th man

      • Aug 21, 20133:13 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        Probably a product of this being the slowest time for NBA news really.  It is kind of important though since the team is 1 injury from needing big minutes out of the 15th man.  It is nerve racking to think about CV stepping in for big minutes at Center.

      • Aug 21, 201310:04 pm
        by jamesjones_det

        Reply

        It’s the first time in as many years as I can remember that we have had 15 guaranteed contracts before the end of preseason.  There is usually one or two open roster spots.

  • Aug 20, 201310:48 pm
    by mike

    Reply

    Harrellson was 47th pick, not undrafted

    • Aug 20, 201310:55 pm
      by Vince

      Reply

      ^ By the Hornets if I remember correctly.

  • Aug 20, 201311:19 pm
    by Ryan

    Reply

    If he plays hard in practice and the few minutes he gets in games, hits open shots and keeps gaffes to a minimum he should be a solid 15th man. We might’ve done better but we could’ve definitely done much worse.

  • Aug 20, 201311:23 pm
    by Ryan

    Reply

    Sure makes me wish we still had Brandon Knight.

  • Aug 21, 201312:42 am
    by Ryan

    Reply

    A good pickup for insurance..I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get 10 -12 minutes a game to help unclog the lane and shoot 3s

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJOiSMrJMV0

  • Aug 21, 20137:17 am
    by Tiko

    Reply

    Why is he called Jorts?

  • Aug 21, 20138:11 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Larry Sanders, 4 years… 44 mil…11 per
    Pekovic, 5 years ….. 60 mil…12 per
    Greg???? any predictions?

    • Aug 21, 201310:02 am
      by CNA5

      Reply

      He’ll get a max contract offer.  I believe it starts at ~$13.7M for the first year.  Falk’s going to get him a max offer from somebody if he’s healthy and doesn’t regress.

  • Aug 21, 20138:29 am
    by Tom Y.

    Reply

    I’m not sure why everybody calls him the 15th man and saying he won’t play. There are 96 frontcourt minutes. Smith will probably play about 16 at SF, leaving him about 18 at PF. Together with Monroe’s 34 and Dre at about 28 (assuming they are proceeding carefully with building his conditioning and core strength), that makes for 80. If Dre plays a little more and they find a way to limit Smith’s minutes at SF even more, that still makes for about 84. This leaves 12-16 minutes for a bench player or two. That could be Mitchell or JJ or even CV, but if they want to give Monroe a real chance to adjust to PF, I think they should leave him there for more minutes, therefore needing about 10 minutes or more from a backup center.

    • Aug 21, 20138:46 am
      by Venice

      Reply

      CV played some spot up minutes at center and most probably, it will be given to him. They need to give CV minutes to showcase him.
       

      • Aug 21, 20139:05 am
        by MIKEYDE248

        Reply

        Yeah, that’s the thing I’m most looking forward to this season is seeing CV & Stuckey gettting extended minutes to showcase them for future trades.  Oh joy.

      • Aug 21, 20132:52 pm
        by Jon

        Reply

        the only thing about CV that needs showcasing is his contract. same for stuckey. with the clear playoff push that is being made, i don’t think CV is gonna see much time this year unless players fo down

    • Aug 21, 20139:30 am
      by Jeremy

      Reply

      You have to remember that while a team can have up to 15 players on a roster, only 13 are able to suit up and play in a game. That makes your estimation of minutes remaining inaccurate. You’re making the assumption that the team will choose to suit up Harrellson and it is a fair assumption considering the 2 legit options at center will be starting at PF and C next season. The question is, what two players (assuming no additional moves are made) are you leaving out of the line up? It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see CV become a multimillion dollar paper weight later in the season. Siva? Mitchell? That’s the issue, who are you leaving out on most nights to allow Harrellson to get minutes at the back up C spot?
       

      • Aug 21, 20131:57 pm
        by gtg2013

        Reply

        Siva and Mitchell should go to the D-League where they can get solid game minutes and, well, develop.

    • Aug 21, 201310:17 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I have to concur that we are probably looking at around 15 minutes for a 4th big man. I think the plan for a Monroe/Drummond pairing always involved them staggering minutes and playing Monroe some at center. It’s just easier to find a productive 3rd big man that plays PF than one that plays center, so it makes sense to have Monroe switch between the positions to reduce time needed from a backup center. So giving Monroe a bunch of minutes at center wouldn’t be hurting his development since it is the role they seem to have had in mind for him since drafting Dre. I think it makes more sense to let Monroe really fill his role now, especially since that allows the team to choose their end of the rotation big men options based on who deserves to play instead of who they can use to justify playing Monroe at power forward.
       
      I think that with only about 15 minutes available between both spots that the team will likely use only one guy to get all of those minutes in most games. It’s just not a lot of time to impact a game, so cutting it down even more than that with 2 guys seems counter productive. As far as I’m concerned, that means which of these backup big men is the best or at least fits the best.  JJ’s skill set as a hustle and energy guy is less useful to a team starting Smith and Drummond. Harrelson has not exactly proved he’s a capable NBA player yet, and he played last year in China because he couldn’t stick on a team as short on big men as the Heat. I’d like it to be Mitchell, but he is really raw and he fell to the second round for a reason. CV is an 8 year vet who has gotten rotation minutes his entire career, and his skill set as an outside shooter allows the team to have a new look when he steps onto the court. I’d say that CV is the favorite to be the 4th big man on a team that will likely only play 4 big men on most nights. The exception will be when the team plays against really big teams like Indiana or Memphis. Against those teams it makes sense to get that bigger body out there. I’d bet Harrelson is under 30 games played all season, and some of those will be him getting in due to injuries.

      • Aug 22, 201310:11 am
        by Tom Y.

        Reply

        I just suspect Monroe would fit best as a full-time (or near full-time) PF. So I would rather they let him really get into that role and excel in it. I understand that’s probably not the team’s plan, I just think it’s a better plan.
        Of the guys at PF, I like giving Mitchell minutes to develop and I don’t like CV playing, but you do make good points, and maybe that’s how it will play out.

    • Aug 21, 201310:31 am
      by CNA5

      Reply

      It’s less the minutes and more the 12 man roster.
       
      1) Jennings
      2) Drummond
      3) Monroe
      4) Smith
      5) Billups
      6) Caldwell-Pope
      7) Stuckey
      8) Datome
      9) Singler
      That top 9 is set- and is likely the rotation.  That leaves specialists.
      10)  Villanueva
      11)  Bynum
      12)  Jerebko
      And, outside looking in is probably:
      13) Mitchell
      14) Siva
      15) Harrellson
       
      As far as big minutes, think about it this way.  Monroe and Drummond likely will take ~65 minutes.  Smith will probably spend half or more of his minutes at the 4.  That’s 85 minutes.  That leaves 11 minutes in some variety for Jerebko and Villanueva. 
      Barring any changes to the roster, Villanueva will get first crack at the minutes because he does one thing decent- shoot the 3. 
       
      The Pistons still have pieces to move.  Trades could pick up after December when free agent signings can be traded.

      • Aug 21, 201310:57 am
        by RyanK

        Reply

        CBill will likely be injured most of the season and be part of the injured list.

        I see it this way:

        Rotation players:
        1   Drummond
        2   Monroe
        3   Smith
        4   Jennings
        5   Stuckey
        6   Singler
        7   Pope
        8   Mitchell
        9   Bynum
        10 CV

        Active but only used in garbage time:
        11 Jonas
        12 Harrellson
         
        Injured List:
        13 Siva
        14 Luigi
        15 Billups 

        Some reason people think a 37 year old Billups is going to play a big role this season…  I can’t figure out why.  He’s not the player he was 7 years ago.

        Mitchell might be a rookie, but he can defend, shoot, rebound, and block shots.  I think he’s going to surprise some guys this year.  Siva will eventually get some minutes, but only when Bynum gets injured and Stuckey is traded.  He’ll come into the game a do a fine job running the offense and defending his position.

        Luigi…I’ve heard enough from the piston.com BS machine to know better than to think hes going to contribute.  He can shoot the ball…  Great…

        Jonas better get automatic with his jumper.  If he’s still a below average shooter, he’ll struggle to get on the court. 

        • Aug 21, 201311:37 am
          by Huddy

          Reply

          I would never defend the Pistons.com BS machine and granted any player coming from overseas is a toss up, but how in the world is Harrellson more likely to suit up than Datome?  A partial guaranteed contract for a guy who actually has shown he isn’t an NBA rotation player doesn’t have a leg up on a guy whos projected skill set fills the biggest hole on the roster.  Judging by his contract I think the Pistons have quite a bit of faith that Luigi is NBA ready and they have actually scouted him.  “he can shoot the ball…great”…what do you want him to do on this roster?  If his feet didn’t pass the 3pt line the whole game and he shot a average to above average percentage from 3 he would be an answer to the teams prayers.
           
          Personally I am not high on Jerebko at all.  I like his hustle, but on a team that is pretty much set rebounding I really don’t see how his energy is well used on this roster.  He has always performed worse when he tries to shoot outside too much (and his percentages have gone down every year) so he truly is a bad fit on the team right now. 

          • Aug 21, 20132:29 pm
            by RyanK

            A guy who can hit 40% of his 3 point shots, but gives up a dunk with oh-lay style defense is not an answer to our prayers.  Nothing is mentioned about his defense…that speaks for itself.  I’ve been BS’d enough from Keith Langlois to know whatever you read on there is just like hearing it from George Blaha.  Luigi is not a 3D player.

            Harrellson plays a different position, that’s why I think he’ll suit up for a lot more games.  Monroe and Drummond are not likely to both stay healthy the whole season, neither will play in garbage minutes, and there’s no one else who can play center on this roster.  Joe D specifically saw the same thin spot I do at 5 and he addressed it with Harrellson.  This is why in the world I see Harrelson being on the active roster.

          • Aug 21, 20132:59 pm
            by Jon

            @ryan how many of datome’s games have you watched? from the little i’ve seen (which is only a couple highlights) he looks athletic and anyone who is athletic and plays hard (most euro’s do) can be an effective defender. but his man defensive ability really doesn’t matter that much if he can play smart team defense (another thing euro’s seem to do well) since he’ll be playing with strong defensive players around him who can pick up his slack

          • Aug 21, 20133:35 pm
            by Huddy

            You must watch a lot of Italian basketball to know so much about Datome’s defense.  Not trusting Keith Langolis’ articles doesn’t mean Datome is a bust it just means that he only writes positive so he isn’t a great source.  Your assertion that he is an oh lay style defender that he is not a 3 and D player is based on not knowing anything about his D so your argument is about a valuable as Keiths article.
             
            A guy who can hit 40% of his 3s is incredibly more valuable to the Pistons right now than a 3rd center.  If a big man is out with an injury then Harellson would get that roster spot, which has no effect on Luigi’s roster space.  If the pistons are using an active roster space for a 3rd center simply to play garbage minutes over someone who is a proficient outside shooter on a team whos biggest knock is a lack of floor spreading…they are making poor decisions.  
             
            I also was saying I would actually rather see JJ out of the line up really.

          • Aug 21, 20137:48 pm
            by RyanK

            http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luigi-Datome-263/

            I don’t make this shit up.  He’s just like every other euro that can’t doesn’t play defense.  

          • Aug 22, 20131:28 pm
            by oats

            @RyanK. They don’t talk about his defense because it isn’t what is special about him. No one really spends much time talking about Ray Allen’s defense, but in his prime he was a good defensive player and he still remains good enough to not be an “oh-lay” defender. Not talking about his defense doesn’t mean he’s terrible at it, just that it isn’t the main thing he has going for him.

        • Aug 21, 201311:43 am
          by Some Dude

          Reply

          Steve Nash is doing just fine at 39, and Jason Kidd did pretty good at 40 last year. Billups is a few years younger, so there is no reason to believe he will be injured all year. He had severe injuring over a year ago, he recovered and did fine at the end of the Clippers season. By now, he is healthy and ready to go. Why people assume he still injured or going to be injured is beyond me.

          • Aug 21, 201312:04 pm
            by oats

            Those guys are the exceptions though and are kind of useless for projecting what a guy will do at that age. The vast majority of really good basketball players are out of the league or barely playing by age 37. As for Chauncey, he played a total of 42 games the last 2 years. It’s definitely not a given since injuries are inherently hard to predict, but it seems more likely that Billups gets injured again than it is that he stays healthy for the majority of the season.

        • Aug 21, 201311:59 am
          by oats

          Reply

          @Ryank. Your rotation can’t shoot. Jennings spent 2 years as a slightly above average 3 point shooter, and 2 years below average. Let’s pencil him in as average. Singler is pretty much right at the average as well. CV is good for his position, but his career average is below the league average. Rookies are notoriously tough to project, but a lot of rookies shoot slightly worse than they did in college due to adjusting to NBA defenses and the longer arc. Any slippage at all and KCP is merely an average 3 point shooter. The rest of the guys are way below average. My best guess is that rotation would be a bottom 10 team in 3 point shooting. In a year without all these teams trying to tank I’d guess bottom 5, but we could see a lot of really wonky lineups from some of these teams.
           
          It’s kind of nutty for the team to go without a single above average 3 point shooter. I guess Cheeks is the coach so it is definitely possible, but I still doubt it. I’d expect Chauncey to get the nod early on, but since he’s only played 42 games the last 2 years I’d expect him to get hurt again. Once he does, the need for shooting should elevate Datome into the rotation. Being just a shooter usually gets guys play time when the team really just needs shooting.

          • Aug 22, 201310:35 am
            by RyanK

            If Monroe isn’t a shooter, the whole experiment isn’t going to work anyways.  He better have his 15 footer down, otherwise he and Andre together just doesn’t work.  

            Jenning absolutely is a shooter…he’s a shooter that’s been allowed to take too many low percentage/bad shots.  He hit almost 38% of his three point shots last year…  33% from three point range is as good as 50% from two point range.  Take the bad shots out and you have a 40% three point shooter.

            Josh Smith can shoot the ball.  He’s not a pure shooter, but he does have average accuracy and they are not going to leave him open to take 15-18 foot shots.   If they do, he’ll average 20 points per game and lead the team in scoring.  His true shooting percentage is over 51%…not elite, but not terrible.

            The Pope…  We’ll see.  He’s known as a shooter.  Something tells me he’s not a guy the defense is going to leave open to take shots on the perimeter.  All the draft profiles list his shooting as a strong point.  He got 9 out of 10 points for shooting ability on nbadraft.net 

            Jenning – Good Shooter, 3 point gun
            Pope – Good Shooter, 3 point gun
            Smith – Decent/Average shooter, 2 point shooter, 15-18 footer
            Monroe – Average, 15 feet only.
            Andre – Non-shooter

            Monroe is the only question mark in the group.  Last year they said his 15 footer was automatic…we saw otherwise during the season.  

          • Aug 22, 20132:17 pm
            by oats

            1) You can’t assume Monroe has a jump shot. I’m also talking about what the team will do, and they will not just concede that they aren’t good if Monroe’s shot isn’t falling. No matter what, Monroe will not be shooting 3s. My main point is the team is unlikely to go without a good 3 point shooter in the lineup somewhere, and obviously Monroe doesn’t qualify.
             
            2) Jenning shot .375 last year, and .374 as a rookie. I really need to mention that in that rookie year he actually shot .371 from the field, which is horrendous. In between those years he shot .323 and .333 on 3s. That gives him a career average of .354. League average on 3s last year was .359. Jennings is an average 3 point shooter.
             
            You can’t just expect a guy who has had bad shot selections to completely forget about it immediately, especially when playing on a team with an unbalanced attack like Detroit. Last year Detroit was one of the league leaders in points in the paint and one of the worst at points from 3, and adding Josh Smith likely worsened that. I just don’t see him hitting .400 this year. Another year at .375 would be nice, but the safe bet is he shoots closer to that .354 career average. Also, I don’t need to be told the value of the 3 point shot. Even with that in mind, Jennings had a TS% of .510, which is pretty much the average for PGs. He is very definitely an average shooter so far. Hopefully he gets better, but I don’t think he will actually elevate himself to the point of being a legitimately good shooter just yet.
             
            3) Josh Smith is one of the worst shooters in basketball. Teams will and have been letting him take 15-18 foot jumpers. Every team in the league wants Josh Smith shooting jump shots. On all shots outside of 10′ he shot .303. Some of those are 3s though. On shots from 10′ to the 3 point line he shot .306. As you pointed out, 3s are worth more. So, effective FG% is the stat to use. It counts a made 3 as 1.5 made FGs. He had an eFG% of .360 on shots outside of 10′. That is terrible. His eFG% on the season was .461. The reason is simple, he shot .771 at the rim which is truly fantastic. Oh, and he also shot .359 in the 3-10′ range, so his eFG% from 3 feet on out is that awful .360. Josh Smith can not shoot a lick and you are just wrong.
             
            4) I’m a big Pope supporter, and I expect him to shoot it well eventually. It is not uncommon for a rookie to have some problems adjusting to the league though. It’s not like it’s a big drop for him to be an average shooter. He shot .373 last year, so we’re talking 1.5% drop to be a league average shooter. Between NBA defenses being better and the longer 3 point line, that seems pretty likely. It’s not a knock on him or anything, He’s just not a guy I would expect the team to feel comfortable carrying the outside shooting load alongside one average shooter in Jennings and a bunch of bad shooters.
             
            5) This is what your lineup actually consists of.
            Jennings- average 3 point shooter on his career and his best shooting years have him as an average shooter all together.
            Pope- hard to peg down since he’s a rookie, but likely closer to average for now.
            Smith- good dunker, sucks at every other range though.
            Monroe- hopefully has a mid range shot, but has yet to demonstrate it.
            Drummond- another dunker.
            Stuckey- good at getting to the line I guess, but that’s about all he’s good for
            Bynum- has a decent enough game from inside the 3 point line, but he is not really a shooter
            Singler- one of the most average shooters in the league
            Mitchell- might have a decent mid range jump shot I guess
            CV- good shooter for a PF, but still an average to below average 3 point shooter over all.

          • Aug 22, 20133:47 pm
            by Max

            You are just listing Jenning’s percentages.  Doesn’t the fact that he has twice finished in the top ten in 3 pointers made say something about how good a three point shooter he is?   Put another way, let’s sat one player hits 50 percent from 3 point land but has no ability to take his shot off a dribble or get his own shot, only shoots when he is wide open and only hits 1 three every other game.   Now, is this player really a better shooter than another who shoots 37 percent from 3 but is great at shooting off the dribble, coming around screens and can get his own shot despite being the focal point of the offense and hits over 2 threes a game?   There is much to be said for context with these numbers and there is also something to be said for volume.  Just being able to get off shots has become an incredibly underrated aspect of judging players since so many players can’t get off shots unless someone else sets them up.  

          • Aug 22, 20135:07 pm
            by oats

            @ Max. So you want to give him credit for missing a lot of shots? That may not be the intention of relying on volume numbers, but taking a ton of shots and only making 37% of them does mean that he is missing so many more shots.
             
            To answer the question, let’s use two players that mostly meet the criteria. Jose Calderon led the league in 3 point shooting percentage at .491, but he was not that great at creating his own shot and had a really low total number of 3s taken. He made 130 3s on 282 attempts. Brandon Jennings made 173 of his 461 shots from 3. So, are Jennings 43 extra 3s worth him taking 179 extra shots? To put that in context, if Calderon took that many more shots he would need to shoot only .240 on the extras to get up to the number of makes that Jennings had. So you are clearly better with Calderon taking his 282, and then another more average shooter taking those extra shots and making enough of them for the two players to combine for more made 3s. So yes, the answer to your hypothetical question is that the 50% shooter is in fact the better shooter for the team.
             
            Your right that just looking at the percentages in a vacuum is not the best way to look at things, but looking at volume stats and ignoring the fact that someone else could be used to to take those extra shots is an even bigger mistake. Each shot missed is also a shot taken away from another player who might have had a better shot available. Jennings is good at taking large volumes of shots, but he’s only pretty average at making them. There is value in getting off shots, but not enough of one to make him count as an actually good shooter.

          • Aug 22, 20135:14 pm
            by oats

            You’re right*… Sorry, that mistake in the last paragraph bugs me. I thought you’re, but somehow didn’t type it.

          • Aug 22, 201310:36 pm
            by Max

            I don’t like the comparison because Calderon is an exceptional shooter who can get his own shot.  My point takes in the role player types who hit high percentages but live off the players who can create.   Jennings shot 375 from three last year which is a good percentage and especially for a high volume three point shooter.   

            You say you can’t expect Jennings to have a better shot selection but he has always been his teams first or second option and he hasn’t had a player he was supposed to get the ball to since he was a rookie and Bogut was healthy.   There should be a lot less pressure on Jennings from opposing teams defense than he ever faced in Milwaukee as soon as he starts playing with the Pistons and that should help him.  He has shown that he can be a good three point shooter and definitely a prolific one.   No, Jennings is not nearly as good a shooter as Calderon and his ability to get more shots off isn’t worth the difference in their efficiency but I would say that same dynamic in comparison to Knight’s better percentages is worth the difference in efficiency because Jennings’ abilities lead to so many offensive options and possibilities that Knight’s do not.  

            More to the point, Jennings makes a lot of threes and draws a lot of attention from opposing defenses and this leads to more room for other players to succeed.   Taking and missing shots is worth it when it creates more room on the floor and unbalances the other team’s defense.    We can argue about Jennings efficiency  but he does not get treated like Rondo or Smith on the outside and defenses work hard to stop him from getting open shots and even double team him at times.  You say his career average of 351 from 3 makes him an average 3 point shooter but what about the difficulty and variety of those shots?  It’s not every three point shooter who can make every type of three point shot in every kind of situation and volume should count for something.   I’m just saying that quoting the shooting percentage shouldn’t be the be all and end all.  

            For instance, Reggie Miller shot 395 from three for his career and Steve Kerr shot 454.  Personally, I think Miller is the wholly superior 3 point shooter when you look at the kind of shots they took and what their relative roles were.  

            The bottom line is that the Pistons should be much better and they are a better shooting team than at least some others that have had success.   

          • Aug 23, 201312:26 am
            by oats

            I think Calderon is an apt comparison because he really does not excel at creating his own shot. I could go with Korver who is almost the definition of a guy that needs someone to create a shot for him, but he made 184 3s last season. Ok, I got it. Shane Battier. He hit 43% of his 3s, and he very clearly needs someone to create shots for him. That is pretty hard to disagree with. Battier made 136 of his 316 attempts last year, so to catch Jennings he would need to go 37 of 145. That’s still just .255. Shane Battier plus a bad shooter will blow by Jennings.
             
            I get your general point. There is a certain extreme where the higher percentage guy stops being better for floor spacing. I’d say Tayshaun before the Calderon trade would qualify. He was shooting .434, but took only 53 attempts in 45 games. When you get to that far of an extreme then things do favor Jennings. That’s just not a very good rebuttal for my characterizing Jennings as an average shooter though. The higher percentage shooter is almost always the one who is helping the team more.
             
            As for Jennings and Knight specifically, that is a little trickier to explain. Knight actually shot worse on 3s last season, but his career average is better. I’m changing to per game stats over the career because of that. Jennings averages .3 more 3s made a game, but on 1.4 extra attempts. So if Knight increased his shot attempts to as high as what Jennings has done per game, he’d need to shoot .214 on those shots to catch Jennings in shots made per game. Once again, the team would be better off with Knight and just about any other shooter taking those extra shots.
             
            As for Jennings and his shot selection in Detroit, I’m willing to bet it improves. But you have to look at the entirety of my point I was making in context of the lineup that was given above. Jennings might not be the top scoring option, but in RyanK’s lineup he was the only real threat from deep and that is a pretty similar situation to being the primary scorer. In short, I’d expect him to feel pressured to take a ton outside shots, and not all of those will be good looks. I think what will actually happen is that Billups and/or Datome will be given minutes and help take some of that pressure off him. In that scenario he should be able to improve his shot selection, and probably shoot in that 37-38% range instead of the 35% career average. So in my opinion it will improve, but not in the scenario that RyanK had. I hope that makes sense. 

    • Aug 21, 201312:38 pm
      by AYC

      Reply

      CV, if his contract actually matched his playing time, would be a useful piece off the bench as a stretch 4.  Even though his expiring contract is out of proportion to his role, he still fills a role.  He’ll get some time.  In certain games, a lot more than people are projecting.  If Luigi projects to what is expected of him, then he should earn solid rotation minutes.  

      I really think the “Big Trade” that should be made is not CV+Stuck, but JJ and Singler for a veteran backup 3 pt shooting (3 and D if we’re lucky) SG.  JJ’s role will be eclipsed by Mitchell, who should warrant the playing time that JJ would get.  Singler?  With him and JJ packaged together, that should hopefully net us a replacement superior or more financially acceptable.   

  • Aug 21, 201312:40 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    CV will play because they will put Drummond out there with a punch of 3 pt shooters and a P&R point guard at least a little every game.

     I expect Datome to be in the rotation pretty quickly. He’s not a scrub- he was Italian league MVP for a reason- his shooting- and the pistons need shooting. Most likely reason for CV NOT to play is if they decide Datome can be a stretch 4 for 10-15 minutes a game.

    most likely “in a suit” players are harrellson and Siva- Siva because we have so many point guarplay his chance will come next year, or after an injury or trade. 

  • Aug 21, 20133:12 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    a blast from the past…
    came across this blurb – about a summer league game – and had to laugh.
    are they really talking about CV?

    The Participants:Charlie Villanuevashowed all the skills that made him a lottery pick; smart play in transition, key rebounding, ball-handling ability in transition, and unselfishness in the paint to hit the open man. He struggled with his midrange jumper, but was crafty in the paint with subtle jumphooks and bankshots in the paint with good position. After a slight ankle tweak in Toronto’s 3rd game, he failed to play in the remaining games of the SPL.

    From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2cdH2KX4I
    http://www.draftexpress.com

    http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Long-Beach-Summer-Pro-League-Recap-1059/ 

  • Aug 21, 20136:03 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    I miss the rest of the year when anything of consequence related to the NBA happens.

  • Aug 21, 201310:08 pm
    by joe

    Reply

    I think the Pistons found CV replacement for dirt cheap, they probably now trade CV for nothing just to get him off of pay role or he’s become this year’s Maggette.  

    • Aug 22, 20139:22 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      They can’t trade him for nothing. That would require another team having enough cap space to fully absorb the contract.

      • Aug 22, 20133:15 pm
        by joe

        Reply

        When I say nothing, I’m talking about a bench warmer thats half the price. Maybe an SG or SF?

  • Aug 22, 20138:02 am
    by Some Dude

    Reply

    @oats
    At Billups age, an injury is always possible. But in his return to the Clips, he looked strong. Add the off season of rest, and he should be stronger. He’s put in a lot of work to get back on the floor. So barring some freak accident I don’t see him getting another severe injury. Plus he will only get limited minutes, which will reduce the chances of him getting injured. He’s been a bull (not the team) his whole career up until his injury. He’ll definitely be watching out of himself this year.
    Either way, with his limited minutes I still see the young guys getting playing time. So it’s not really a huge deal, as long as he’s present to mentor, everything should be alright.

  • Aug 24, 20139:18 am
    by Jens

    Reply

    Actually, of all the very good offseason moves Joe did, that´s the one I like the least. Still like Jajuan Johnson alot, although he looked terrible in summer league. But that would have been a player with “upside”.

    But the no 15. spot won´t matter. I still hope Mitchell will get the remaining frontcourt minutes. 

  • [...] the only player I liked better than him on that team was Jorts! I was ecstatic! Moreover, while it doesn’t sound like Pistons wise guys think he’ll pay I think he has a place on this team! This Pistons team desperately needs shooting because of the [...]

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