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Raptors not trading Rudy Gay for Rodney Stuckey and Charlie Villanueva

Marc Stein of ESPN:

Nothing but resistance from Toronto so far on Pistons’ pitch to swap expiring contracts of Rodney Stuckey & Charlie Villanueva for Rudy Gay

I think this is a good trade for the Raptors, but I can see why they turned it down. They just somehow got a first-round pick for Andrea Bargnani, so I’m sure they’re hopeful they could get more for Gay. I doubt the Pistons’ offer is going anywhere.

The Pistons will just have to find another way to mildly upgrade their 2013-14 roster at the expense of 2014-15 flexibility.

71 Comments

  • Jul 3, 20135:26 pm
    by TacticalBear

    Reply

    ESPN Headline: “Gay Still Plays for Other Team”

    • Jul 3, 20137:57 pm
      by Quin

      Reply

      I want to say lol, but …

  • Jul 3, 20135:29 pm
    by Javell

    Reply

    Lmao is anyone really surprised they rejected this! Nooo

    • Jul 3, 20135:40 pm
      by TacticalBear

      Reply

      If nobody offers them a better package in the next few weeks, the Raptors will jump at this deal for sure. They recognize that a guy making 18MM who stops the offense and shoots 41% from the field is of negative value. 

      • Jul 4, 20138:31 am
        by Blanks

        Reply

        Why assume the Raptors are even shopping Gay?

  • Jul 3, 20135:43 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    Kyle Korver

  • Jul 3, 20135:48 pm
    by RyanK

    Reply

    Dan you’re looking at Gay from the wrong perspective.  The bulk of his value is locked up in the expiring contract for the 2014-2015 season.  This time next year, cap clearing teams will want that thing on their books!  At that time, Gay’s value will be realized.  We’ll trade him for a player we need…one that’s signed to a long-term deal another team doesn’t want to pay, but we’ll take to round out our young roster.

    Running a team is a business.  This deal will pay off 12 months from now and that’s why the Raptors don’t want to let go of the contract.  

     

    • Jul 3, 20136:27 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      We sure didn’t have that kind of forethought when we traded a first round draft pick to move Ben Gordon. Charlotte isn’t exactly fighting off suitors for Gordon’s now expiring contract.
      Cap space is much more valuable than an expiring contract. With cap space, we can just straight up absorb a contract another team wants to move. The other team will be a lot more amenable too, since they wouldn’t have to pay a bad player for the rest of the year too.

      • Jul 3, 20136:44 pm
        by Dan Feldman

        Reply

        This.

      • Jul 3, 20136:57 pm
        by RyanK

        Reply

        No this.

        We have to get to the 90% cap minimum.  We can do it with a player who’s much better than Dan wants to admitt, or sign a roster full of scrubs to one year deals that will further alienate a fan base.  

        Dan has pride that he’s right, this is very apparent.  But the truth is he never thought this one through beyond expiring contracts and player ability. 

        • Jul 3, 20138:38 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Why does everyone think getting to the cap floor will be so hard? This team shouldn’t be THAT desperate to pay someone that they’d take an overrated, overpaid player that will stall this team’s growth for 2 years. Everyone wants Detroit to make a splash instead of steady growth, despite the fact that the 2004 team was built over time.

        • Jul 4, 201310:29 am
          by KaBa

          Reply

          What do you think a 1 year contracts for? If they don’t find anything fitting then better frow money out for one year then gamble that someone is going to take his contract the next year. Hell maye they can even find a gem. Why not fill up the cap with a european guy (a long shot, I know).

  • Jul 3, 20136:02 pm
    by D Nasty

    Reply

    2014-2015 flexibility for what exactly?   So guys can complain how inefficient everyone is and how overpaid they are lol.      Again. 

    • Jul 3, 20136:47 pm
      by David

      Reply

      Exactly. The same thing is said every year, just by different teams/fans. There’s going to be a flaw in every players game. Yeah, we’ve been duped by FA’s in the past, but that was the past. There’s always the chance that someone actually pans out. I’m willing to take that risk rather than remain below the bar of mediocrity. I honestly just want to restore a little bit of respectability to the franchise at this point. 

      • Jul 3, 20136:59 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        No one here is proposing we don’t do anything with our money as the first option. We are just saying that dumping cap space into bad players or bad fits is pointless. So what if Lebron or KD never come here, that doesn’t mean we throw tens of millions of dollars at a player that either doesn’t fit or only marginally improves the team. Just because we CAN overpay somebody doesn’t mean we SHOULD.
        We are all open to suggestions of players that would actually help us, but the fact is most of those players aren’t max contract guys that will get fans excited. Smith and Gay are really bad fits for our team. Iggy is better but still not a great fit. Rondo has the same problems as Iggy. We can’t force the right players to be on the market, but we shouldn’t commit the franchise to mediocrity by locking ourselves into the wrong players.

    • Jul 3, 201311:00 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Here’s the thing. Superstars and guys on rookie deals are vastly underpaid. That makes up a fairly large minority of the league. So most of the remaining players must be, by definition, overpaid. So most FA signings will be overpays. There’s just no way around that fact without doing away with the max contract and the rookie scale.

  • Jul 3, 20136:12 pm
    by Ian

    Reply

    I keep hearing you guys tout the need for 14-15 flexibility. Who exactly is thee franchise player y’all are trying to acquire with all that flexibility? i have a feeling that this time next year you’ll be talking about retaining the team’s 15-16 cap flexibility…

    • Jul 3, 20136:25 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      Is it better to have cap space and not use it, or be filled with albatross contracts? Cap space is not ONLY valuable for free agents.

      • Jul 3, 20139:15 pm
        by JamesJames_Det

        Reply

        Cap space can be valuable for trades as well.  If OKC wanted Knight for some dumb reason and gave us KD in return there is no issue with salary match because we have the cap space.  

  • Jul 3, 20136:26 pm
    by Ryan Kelly

    Reply

    Exactly.  A team like Detroit needs to get players when it can.   Not just keep saving til next year.   Kevin durant isn’t coming here.  Neither is lebron lol.   This wait til next year mentality is foolish. 

    • Jul 3, 20136:47 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Except if the Pistons get marginally better season, they’ll lose their first-round draft pick. So just getting a player now might cost them a chance to draft a good one next year. That’s worth it if the Pistons can make a big jump, but being one of the better teams not to make the playoffs is not worth it.

      • Jul 3, 20137:03 pm
        by koz

        Reply

        How about Hansbrough from Indy? Isn’t he available?

      • Jul 3, 20137:58 pm
        by Byron

        Reply

        Am I wrong or is the pick only top-5 protected? With how many teams are tanking and with Dumars taking a short-sighted “win-now” approach, I think that pick is as good as gone.

        • Jul 3, 20138:59 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Top 8 protected, pretty sure.

          • Jul 3, 20139:32 pm
            by jerrific

            I believe it’s top right next year and either five or three the next.  

        • Jul 3, 201311:03 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Top 8 protected in 2014. Top 1 protected in 2015.

      • Jul 3, 201310:45 pm
        by piro4pistons

        Reply

        I totally agree with Dan here.  What good is it to be the eight seed or lower?  One last top 8 pick could put the Pistons in position to compete for years to come.  Maybe Stern’s replacement would let the Pistons “win” this upcoming lottery?

      • Jul 4, 20133:33 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        But just starting Drummond makes the team more than marginally better.   

  • Jul 3, 20136:37 pm
    by cir3

    Reply

    is it because raptors know that pistons has a lot more to offer, like they’re cap space. why would they settle for less

    • Jul 3, 20136:49 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      That is a good point. As it was mentioned, they somehow got a first round pick for the walking catastrophe Andrea Bargnani. If one team is dumb enough to give up actual value for Bargnani, they should be able to get twice as much for Gay. Bargnani hasn’t been serviceable in 3 years, and was a complete train wreck last year. Gay at least is a pretty average player.

    • Jul 3, 20136:57 pm
      by MoMoCheeks

      Reply

      Dumars tried for Gay last season too, he’s got offense but I’m still unsure about him. That being said, I wanted us to sign JJ Redick & Martel Webster & see where that took us. Low risk High reward & plenty of Perimeter shooting to open up the paint for Moose & Andre. What do I know :)

  • Jul 3, 20136:48 pm
    by mshansky

    Reply

    Why cant they just amnesty villanueva and waive stuckey. that would free up some money, and, imo, addition by subtraction. getting rid of that garbage would definitely please me….and, i suspect, many others. i dont care what we get for them….

    • Jul 3, 20136:54 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      The team would still need bodies to fill those roster spots and minutes. And despite what your feelings may be, Stuckey has shown productivity prior to last year. But if they were going to waive him, they should have done it earlier, when it would have wiped actual money off the books. Waived players still count against a team’s cap.
      CV I wouldn’t mind amnestying just to get him off the team. I would rather give Jerebko/Mitchell every backup PF minute than have CV play. But the issue there is just why? We can bench him and get the same effect. No coach or GM should be pushing for CV to get minutes. Amnestying him is only of value if it allow the team to procure another player or talent. Since we are well under the cap, that’s not really an issue.

    • Jul 3, 20139:55 pm
      by JamesJames_Det

      Reply

      If they just waive Stuckey his salary would still count against the cap.  They could amnesty CV but why do it unless you have a great reason to.  

      There is no need to waste that amnesty on CV at this point.  I would rather save it for one of Joe’s signings in case the fall flat again.  

      • Jul 4, 20131:32 am
        by Dan Feldman

        Reply

        The amnesty can be used only on players signed under the previous CBA, and it can be used only by the team that had the player when the CBA was signed.

        In other words, the Pistons will only ever be able to use it on Villanueva and Monroe. Obviously, they won’t amnesty Monroe. It’s Villanueva or nobody.

        • Jul 4, 201311:30 am
          by kcindc02

          Reply

          I actually did not know that!  Very good to know.  My trade idea isCharlie V, Stuckey, and Brandon Knight to Boston for Rondo, Jeff Green, and yes, Gerald Wallace.  

          We get Rondo and Jeff Green to put with KCP, Big D, and Moose.  Roll that out there for 162 games and we are back on track. 

        • Jul 4, 20132:07 pm
          by jamesjones_det

          Reply

          Shoot, went back an read the wording and it looks like that is correct (the player mush have been on the roster since July 1st 2011).  So I ask this, why not amnesty him?  They only have to the 7th to do it if I read everything correctly.

  • Jul 3, 20136:56 pm
    by mike

    Reply

    If the pistons cant sign iguodala, IMO the only talented player that fits with detoir they should just sign players to 1 years deals to get to the minimum salary and be on the good end of trades for people trying to get under the luxury or get ready for the 2014 free agents which could have melo or lebron if they opt out plus john wall, kobe, danny granger, paul george, loul deing, pua gasol, derick williams, derrick favors, bosh or stoudamire if they opt out, bogut, cousins, gorat, and monroe. IMO a better talent pool so teams might be more willing to give out better assets if they think they will be able to sign players.

    • Jul 3, 20137:02 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      That’s the best idea I’ve heard today. I’d certainly rather have Deng’s equally poor offense but hellacious defense than Gay. I would also rather wait for the right opportunity/player than throw everything we have at players that won’t make a difference.

    • Jul 3, 20137:29 pm
      by Jeremy

      Reply

      Completely disagree. You can’t keep waiting until next year hoping that you have enough to persuade someone to play for you. Especially when, as of the moment, the Lakers are projecting to only have Steve Nash under contract next season – 1 player. They have an owner that is willing to spend and is perhaps the most attractive NBA location (outside of Dallas that are only projected to have sub $1m contracts on their books after next season). Both have ownership groups that are more than willing to spend to put a winner on the floor. You’re also banking on some of those players to opt out of their deals – which is very doubtful – or players that are restricted free agents (Paul George, Cousins, Wall) will not have their current teams match your offer. Why would Melo, Amare, Lebron, Bosh, or Wade opt out of their deals? They are all well paid and are on playoff teams.

      Once you take the restricted free agents and guys that can opt out of their deals out form the free agent pool, you’re left with Kobe, Gasol, Granger, Pierce, Deng, Dirk, Artest, Ray Allen, Okafor, Butler and a bunch of scrubs. Kobe has given all indications he is retiring after his deal is over and Dirk is going to retire a Maverick. The only one worth making any sort of long term commitment to is Granger and even that is questionable because he will be 31 and a 4 year deal puts him at 35 by the time the deal is over. 

      I guess my opinion is you need to proactive to bring talent in, otherwise it will be the “let’s save money for next year” every single year. You won’t keep your own players because it will appear as though you’re not committed to winning because you aren’t making an effort to get guys to help them out. It will be a revolving door of mediocrity. 

      • Jul 4, 20133:36 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Jeremy gets it!   Most of you do not.    Also, the Pistons need to be over the cap going into next season to receive a biannual exception and the mini exception.   You can pick up some pretty decent free agents with those and don’t need to be under the cap.   

  • Jul 3, 20137:15 pm
    by Eric

    Reply

    Their loss…

  • Jul 3, 20137:32 pm
    by Tork

    Reply

    How about we find a way to draft Andrew Wiggins? We need a small forward. He is a small forward. Perfect fit. 

  • Jul 3, 20137:57 pm
    by Dan

    Reply

    according to Alex Kennedy on Twitter we’ve made an offer to Boston for Rondo. Not sure what the offer is though.

    • Jul 3, 20138:32 pm
      by jacob

      Reply

      I wonder what they offered to the Celtics.

  • Jul 3, 20138:34 pm
    by mythx

    Reply

    If we can somehow get the Raptors to bite on this then we may have the assets for a run at Rondo. I would guess a future 1st rounder with Knight and Singler may do it as it gives them 2 young players on cheap contracts that they can work with.
    Rondo-Pope-Gay-Monroe-Drummond  starting lineup would be one of the better in the east. It leaves the bench thin with only Jerebko as someone with experience. We would probably have to lean heavily on some combo of Siva,Middleton,English,Mitchell and Kratsov.  But honestly I view that as a good thing. Its about time we started developing our later picks instead of just giving up on them (ala Afflalo). 
    If that happened I think I would try to resign Will (you always need 3 PG’s) and  a budget  big man like D. Blair
     

  • Jul 3, 20138:37 pm
    by Dan

    Reply

    see I’m okay if we don’t get Gay, I think Rondo is the key piece and the one we really need to go after. I’m okay with losing Monroe if it means Rondo, cause I think I might trade Monroe for Smith if it means Rondo.
    Cause Rondo surrounded by a shooter like KCP and athletes like Mitchell, AD, and possibly Smith is very exciting and gives you defense plus a really good offense.
     

  • Jul 3, 20139:06 pm
    by Brodee G.

    Reply

    Gay does have very minimal one on one D, he’s also the franchise steals title of the Grizz
    If he learns to drive and facilitate more he’d be better than Paul George
    Gay is in the Top 7 rankings for SF’s in the league. 

    Why in the hell wouldn’t we want him? He’s a franchise type player and he could make us at least an 8 seed in an atrocious Eastern conference. 

  • Jul 3, 20139:07 pm
    by G

    Reply

    Am I the only one noticing that all these rumored off-season moves are contrary to Joe D’s reason for drafting KCP? He said they need shooting & D on the perimeter. Smith & Iggy bring D but not shooting, and Gay brings neither. And Rudy was the only one Dumars actually made a move for.

    • Jul 4, 201310:51 am
      by KaBa

      Reply

      Well Rudy would apsolutely bring outside shooting, but hitting those shots is another story ;)

  • Jul 3, 20139:26 pm
    by mshansky

    Reply

    The “flailing” has officially begun for joe d…
    If he waits long enough, we may be able to resign maggete, t-mac, and AI…
     

  • Jul 3, 20139:43 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    throw in Singler and call it a day…

  • Jul 3, 20139:52 pm
    by leonelreo

    Reply

    1. doesn’t draft a PG
    2. gives a 1st round pick for  nothing
    3. goes after every single FA, but doesn’t make real offers (kidding when offered stuckey and CV for any starter, for sure)

    I hope Dumars  has a plan… but he doesn’t look like

    • Jul 3, 201310:41 pm
      by piro4pistons

      Reply

      Wrong, Dumars drafted Siva who is a PG in the second round.  I would have preferred Kabongo with that pick instead though.  

      • Jul 3, 201310:47 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Siva is extremely athletic….he is the defensive version of Bynum 

  • Jul 3, 201310:04 pm
    by ffz

    Reply

    you guys hear Detroit is interested in Chauncey Billups, hmm this could mean something, him and rasheed back with Detroit would make a hard working team no doubt, and whatever happened with big ben he said hes not retired yet

    • Jul 3, 201311:19 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Yeah and I see Rip has/is getting waived by the Bulls. Maybe we can bring back the whole 2004 championship team on 1 year deals. Instead of keeping teams to 60 odd points ppg like they used to they’d probably get 160 ppg scored on them. Has gthe time machine been invented yet??

  • Jul 3, 201310:05 pm
    by mshansky

    Reply

    when the top and middle level players are gone (soon) and no one wants to swap a silk purse for a sow’s ear, joe will do what he does best these days: swap garbage for garbage and let the local media asskissers   
    try to cover the stink.
    thanks, in part, to the local sycophants, we were primed to expect major upgrades thru free agency and trades…… remember ” we are ready to spend”? from the loudmouth blowhard gores?
    i hope more dust settles on the palace seats until joe is gone…..thats really all we can hope for… 

  • Jul 3, 201310:14 pm
    by Kobina

    Reply

    From perusing the comments over last few articles, here is a list of players the Pistons should avoid:

    Josh Smith
    Andre Iguodala (All Star)
    Rajon Rondo (2x All Star)
    Rudy Gay

    But here are the players we should be getting excited for:
    JJ Reddick
    Martell Webster
    Cap Space
    Andrew Wiggins
    Magical Superstar who opt out of his contract or agree in free agency to come to a team with no All Stars on it.

    I am sorry to say, Pistons fans are insane.  

    • Jul 3, 201310:42 pm
      by rick77

      Reply

      More like impatient, and all of them know what it takes to be a GM. They probably rather have LeBron and not win like he did in Cleveland than win like we did in 04. Can’t satisfy everyone and its clearly apparent winning a title is no longer worthy. All these NBA2K13 Gm’s crack me up.

    • Jul 4, 201311:33 am
      by kcindc02

      Reply

      I love it!

  • Jul 3, 201310:18 pm
    by domnick

    Reply

    with mayo likely to sign with Bucks.. what are our remaining options? are we really good at getting free agents? we need to be in a hurry and grab the top guys before we get trash!

  • Jul 3, 201310:39 pm
    by piro4pistons

    Reply

    @Kobina,
     
    I understand where you are coming from.  Perhaps some of the comments are a result of over-analyzing? I do think it is a valid point for fans to rationalize that a team which lacks shooters will result in opposing teams crowding the lane on defense.  I think it’s reasonable to ask if the Pistons could offset that lack of shooting in the starting lineup by signing/trading for players who can come in off from the bench and shoot some threes. 
     
    Maybe guys like Redick and Webster would be more realistic for the Pistons to sign, had they not re-signed with their teams? 
     
    Personally,
    I am in favor of checking out some players from overseas and looking into signing possibly a d-leaguer or two who have shown promise.  Being realistic, it’s not likely the Pistons could sign Smith and Iguodala.

  • Jul 4, 20136:27 am
    by greg

    Reply

    I honestly dont know why the pistons havent been linked more to tyreke evans….he improved his 3 pointer to 34%…josh smith is just not a good fit, andre iguodala cant hit the 3 and is on the decline…evans is young has room for growth and can be used as a 1, 2 or even a three. he has the potential to be a good defender and is at his best having the ball in his hands. the pistons dont have a ball dominating player on their roster as opposed to the pelicans. he could even come of the bench behind knight and kcp…11 mio is a bit high for his peoduction but id rather pay that than 16 mio for smith or 14 for iguodala. maybe the pistons should just go the 2004 route and sign daren collison and trade for wilson chandler.

  • Jul 4, 201310:59 am
    by KaBa

    Reply

    Whats up with this panic here. The free agency has just begun and everyone is acting like crazy. Obviously Joe is not in a hurry to make a mistake. Sometimes waiting is just better then rushing yourself into something. Best examples are Bucks, they gave JJ away just to go after Mayo? But anyways doing something just for the sake of it is not the way you build a team. A second thing is looking at teams like the Pelicans which are obvious desperate to do some changes (why?), there is a pretty good chance going after players like Vasquez or Dragic from Suns without having to give up to much. 

  • Jul 4, 201311:53 am
    by LT

    Reply

    is there any chance we could package some version of Knight, Stuckey, Jerebko, and Villanueva for Rondo? It seems like he will likely be traded now with Brad Stevens taking over. with these players the Celtics would recieve Expiring contacts or

    • Jul 4, 201312:23 pm
      by KaBa

      Reply

      And we might even package English, Middelton and Singler while we are at it and as the Cherry on top we add Krvatsov. Then we have 5 players to play and don’t need to think about how good the pistons bench ist. Wouldn’t that be great?

  • Jul 4, 20137:13 pm
    by raps

    Reply

    Why don’t you guys check with Heat if they will trade D.Wade and Bosh for Charlie V, Stuckey

  • Jul 4, 20137:16 pm
    by raps

    Reply

    Pistons should think , When was the last time this franchise made any money…..Raptors has made profit every year…….money is not issue for them….so logic of Salary dump is BS…..

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