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Josh Smith gets 12:01 a.m. meeting with Pistons, who’ve readied ‘substantial’ offer

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports:

Detroit Pistons general manager Joe Dumars met with Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith at 12:01 a.m. ET with a plan to make the free agent forward a substantial four-year offer, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Along with re-signing point guard Jose Calderon, Smith is the Pistons’ top priority on the market, league sources told Y! Sports.

The Pistons planned to make a preemptive strike on Smith, understanding that he’s a secondary priority for several teams awaiting the resolution of the Dwight Howard derby, sources said.

Oh boy. Earlier, I explained why this could happen, and now it’s happening. Oh boy.

Smith is a huge talent upgrade, but he comes with all types of attitude and fit questions that we’ll continue to get into as the night progresses.

Update: Vincent Goodwill of The Detroit News:

Just asked a source if the #Pistons will offer Josh Smith the max, the answer: "Absolutely not."

There’s still a huge gap between a reasonable offer to Smith and a max contract, but I guess this an encouraging update.

Update 2: I wrote more about Smith at ProBasketballTalk.

81 Comments

  • Jul 1, 201312:14 am
    by Worm

    Reply

    Nooooooooooooooooooo

  • Jul 1, 201312:16 am
    by haydzzz

    Reply

    so this means drummond wont be starting or smith will be jacking threes as a small forward… damn

  • Jul 1, 201312:16 am
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    THIS IS SERIOUS!!!!

  • Jul 1, 201312:17 am
    by Tony J

    Reply

    There’s no denying his skill but he does not fit on this team unless Joe doesn’t believe Moose wants  to re-sign. I would refrain from the headcase thing because attitudes can certainly change when winning (look at Sheed for instance.)

    I don’t like the idea of Smith on the team but if Moose doesn’t want to re-sign then I could see us signing Smith and shipping Moose out for a player like Eric Bledsoe (who is the same age as Moose) or a good up and coming SF. That is the only scenario that I may actually have some happiness in. 

    • Jul 1, 201312:21 am
      by Max

      Reply

      Moose is worth at least 2 or 3 Bledsoes at different positions.  No way the Pistons would consider Moose for Bledsoe.

    • Jul 1, 201312:54 am
      by Jordan

      Reply

      There’s been no indication Monroe would force his way out and he’s restricted so he has very little leverage anyway.

  • Jul 1, 201312:20 am
    by jacob

    Reply

    I am pumped! I will take good players. I’m so sick of losing. How do any of you know how he does or does not fit?

    • Jul 1, 201312:25 am
      by Worm

      Reply

      Seriously? Have you seen him shoot?

      • Jul 1, 201312:28 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        He does a lot of everything.

        • Jul 1, 201312:30 am
          by Worm

          Reply

          Yeah he does a lot of things that both Drummond and Monroe do. Blocks shots? Drummond. Rebounds? Both. Score in the paint? Both. Dunk? Drummond. Shoot? None of them at all. He is a TERRIBLE fit for our current team unless he is coming off the bench for 8 mil/year, which he isn’t.

          • Jul 1, 20131:11 am
            by Filo Putz

            more crazy talk!!! I have seen Josh Smith shoot and I’m hoping to see him shoot more often in a Piston uniform!

          • Jul 1, 20131:20 am
            by Worm

            Yeah I’ve seen him shoot too. I’ve seen him shoot the worst shot in all of basketball, the long 2, more than any player in the league. I’ve seen him shoot more 3′s this year than any other year even though he only made 30% of them. Maybe all he needs is a change of scenery and he got bored with Atlanta. Or maybe, and more likely, he is a player who doesn’t understand his strengths and weaknesses and is content to go out there and half ass it. Not the kind of player I would want to pay 60 million dollars to.

          • Jul 1, 20131:35 am
            by Filo Putz

            I don’t need to look at your Shot Chart. I have watched him play a number of time. You’re gonna love him if they sign him.

          • Jul 1, 20139:14 am
            by G

            Yeah! Eff your facts, Worm! Smith is an awesome shooter!

            Seriously, he IS a player but not a good fit on this team. Detroit needs spacing, ball movement, and perimeter shooting as well as defense. Smith gives you defense but leaves you deficient in the other 2 areas. He’s a low efficiency scorer, poor shooter from outside, and makes maddening shot choices. Like Stuckey only worse.

        • Jul 1, 201312:41 am
          by Jon

          Reply

          everything but shoot. which is the only f–king thing we can have at the 3 if the offense wants to score points. why the f–k is dumars doing this. so much patience to draft the big men of the future, and the hopeful sg of the future and the still young and possible pg of the future (however unlikely from what’s been shown). this just ruins it. please atlanta, strike out on everyone and offer him the max to stay

        • Jul 1, 201312:45 am
          by oats

          Reply

          He does do a lot of bad shooting, that is true.

          • Jul 1, 20131:14 am
            by Filo Putz

            Boy, either you haven’t watched the guy play or you have no clue what you’re seeing.

          • Jul 1, 20131:25 am
            by Worm

            Look at this shot chart. Do you really think this guy can play the 3 effectively with two frontcourt mates who have even less range?
             
            http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/shooting/2013/

          • Jul 1, 201310:50 am
            by Huddy

            He is a bad shooter he is and the stats spell out exactly how bad.  @Filo Putz saying he looks good when you watch him doesn’t make him better at shooting.  Obviously you aren’t paying attention when you watch because there are a lot of missed shots you are forgetting.

    • Jul 1, 20131:36 am
      by AlC

      Reply

      It’s not that Smith is a BAD fit, it’s just that Igoudala or Deng would be a better fit at SF if you were going for some kind of big time deal or trade for a “name” player or that Rondo or Bledsoe would be a better fit in terms of filling a position of need. 

      • Jul 1, 20132:21 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        It is that he is a bad fit. Iggy is also a pretty questionable fit because he can’t shoot either. Deng would be a pretty good one though. Bledsoe would also be a bad fit because he can’t pass. Rondo is a little questionable because of his poor shooting, but I’d much rather gamble on him than Iggy or Smith. The top free agents or trade targets pretty much all have serious fit concerns.

        • Jul 1, 201311:11 pm
          by AlC

          Reply

          You’re right.  I should have pointed out that Smith is not a BAD fit, just a bad fit.
          And Iggy is not a great fit either, though better than Smith.  They all have concerns.  I do think there is some potential for Iggy to develop into a Bruce Bowen like role, with a little more scoring punch.  I think if he just limited himself to open corner 3s he could manage to stretch the floor a little. 

  • Jul 1, 201312:21 am
    by Vince

    Reply

    Well I’m happy about one thing, I was right that Dumars wants Jose back. That alone makes me very happy, however the fact that Joe is also serious about signing Smith just sh*ts all over that. I’d rather our money go to Iggy than this head case.

    • Jul 1, 20131:46 am
      by Who Is Us?

      Reply

      But does Calderon want to be a Piston??

      • Jul 1, 20133:09 am
        by Vince

        Reply

        As long as I know Joe D tried to sign him to a respectable contract I’m happy, I’ve always been a fan of Calderon and I think that he would be a great addition to our team. I think that if we offer him a contract of 3y/18M he’ll take it, Detroit is looking good and they could use a savvy veteran.

  • Jul 1, 201312:21 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    Hurry up other contenders for Josh Smith hurry, hurry, hurry. He’s got tons of attitude and he’ll jack up threes all day long c’mon Dallas, Atlanta, Houston sign him for big money do it today!!
     

  • Jul 1, 201312:30 am
    by Blocks by Dre

    Reply

    You guys all sound pathetic lol 

    “nooooooooooo”

    Smith would be the best player on this team if he signed today…get with it or move on to another team 

    • Jul 1, 201312:40 am
      by Vince

      Reply

      I’ll take Smith if he agrees to at 3y/24M contract and plays defense on every possession and stops jacking up 3s.

      • Jul 1, 20138:12 am
        by Tom

        Reply

        Smith shot 2.6 3′s a game last year – a career high – and made 30% of them. 
        Iguodala shot 3.6 a game and made 31% of them. Somehow Smith jacks 3s and Andre is the guy we just have to get?

        They’re both very good players and I would love to have either. I was more excited about Andre, but really we need a scorer, and though he doesn’t score in a way that is a perfect fit for the Pistons, Smith can score – in addition to his rebounding and d. Seems like a great guy to have if we can get him. 

        • Jul 1, 20139:19 am
          by G

          Reply

          The year before Iggy shot .394 from 3. I don’t think Iggy is a great fit, but there are few players in this FA who are.

    • Jul 1, 20131:16 am
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      God, can you believe what’s being said about Smith. These losers have no clue what a good player is unless some media type tells them he’s good.

      • Jul 1, 20132:23 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        Most media types really like Josh Smith so that claim makes approximately zero sense.

  • Jul 1, 201312:34 am
    by Black_Magic

    Reply

    at this point ill take as much talent as i can. No matter who it is.

  • Jul 1, 201312:36 am
    by Black_Magic

    Reply

    who would you rather have starting at SF. All Star Josh Smith, or K

    • Jul 1, 201312:42 am
      by Vince

      Reply

      Andre Iguodala.

    • Jul 1, 201312:45 am
      by Jon

      Reply

      well he’s not an all star so there’s that. and he’s not a small forward so there’s that. and he can’t shoot so there’s that. obviously he’s better than singler but i’d rather lose into the top 8 for ANYONE in that top 8 over josh smith unless he magically learns how to shoot in his 8th year in the league or however long he’s been here

      • Jul 1, 20131:37 am
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        Jon have you seen him play???? He’s been carrying the Hawks on his back for years.

        • Jul 1, 20139:22 am
          by G

          Reply

          …While breaking their hearts at the same time. He’s a roller coaster – he’ll do something they love & then turn around & start bricking threes. Nobody’s saying Smith is a terrible player, but he IS a bad fit for this team and will come at too high a cost.

  • Jul 1, 201312:49 am
    by Mr. R

    Reply

    for the love of god no!! If we didn’t have drummond or monroe maybe but now it would just be a waste of money. You would be benching a great talent or you would have a complete log-jam in the paint.someone else please make him the max offer already!!!

  • Jul 1, 201312:49 am
    by jacob

    Reply

    The only player in NBA history to have a career average over 15.0 points, 7.0 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 2.0 blocks and 1.0 steals. That’s right, the only player (go ahead and look it up, there is only one).

    • Jul 1, 201312:54 am
      by Vince

      Reply

      Whilst shooting .465 FG% .283 3P% .654 FT%.

      • Jul 1, 201312:56 am
        by Edgar

        Reply

        And whilst having his own fanbase booing him as he gathers to shoot one awful 20-footer after another. 

        • Jul 1, 20131:50 am
          by Who Is Us?

          Reply

          There is a reason the Hawks aren’t in much of a hurry to resign him.

          • Jul 1, 20131:52 am
            by Filo Putz

            They already offered 16 million per year and he turned them down!!

          • Jul 1, 20139:24 am
            by G

            Holy crap, if he wants MORE than that… You’re advocating signing this guy? For over $16M/yr?

        • Jul 1, 20139:26 am
          by G

          Reply

          Btw Filo, do you have a source/link for that? I haven’t been able to find any news on the Hawks making Smith an offer.

  • Jul 1, 201312:49 am
    by Scott

    Reply

    I really like Monroe, but if we sign Smith it could open up trade possibilites that could bring in a great talent, and with Boston still blowing up their roster, I wouldn’t mind a Monroe for Rondo trade, but Monroe is far better than Bledsoe so here’s hoping thats not in the cards.

  • Jul 1, 201312:56 am
    by Max

    Reply

    Too many people here just see the negatives about adding Smith.  

    Question, can any team in the league outrebound a frontline of Drummond, Monroe and Smith?—it seems like KCP’s best skill is his rebounding too.   

    Personally, I live in New York and have been a Pistons fan for 30 years because I love defense.   With Smith, the Pistons will be a great team defensively.   How can any team hope to score inside on the frontline he would create?  How much better would the guards be defensively if they could use all of their energy to chase shooters off their shots and have a sarcastic, “good luck” attitude about anyone who dared to drive past them inside?  The offense would look ugly at times but I always enjoyed the Pistons best when they were winning ugly.  

    • Jul 1, 20131:25 am
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      The term Hybrid forward was pretty much coined to describe Smith.No matter which forward spot he was at he always displayed small forward like skills. Yes he also shows power forward skills. He’s talented and unique. Whenever asked he has always said he considers himself a small forward and doesn’t like to play at the 4.

      • Jul 1, 20132:26 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        If shows SF like skills you mean that he takes perimeter shots, then sure. If you mean he makes them, then nope. He is athletic enough to defend the 3, but I’d rather keep him a bit closer to the hoop where he can more easily provide help on players driving to the basket. He really does have more value at the 4, no matter what he considers himself.

  • Jul 1, 201312:58 am
    by Eric

    Reply

    LoL so last year there was 2 forwards that avg 18pts 8reb 4ast LeBron and Smith… Monroe can hit the 15 footer also hes been getting better every year this is his year to jump to all star

    • Jul 1, 20132:27 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      No, Monroe can’t hit a 15′. He shot .317 in that range.

  • Jul 1, 201312:58 am
    by Atlas

    Reply

    You fans are nuts!!! Bring Josh smith NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jul 1, 20131:01 am
    by Bob

    Reply

    I’m on board with signing him provided it’s not a max.  Despite not being a great fit, anyone who saw him play this past year knows he’s a big time player.  He carried a mediocre Hawks team to the playoffs and took the Pacers to 6.   It’s blasphemous to compare him to Gordon and Charlie V, because he has already proven that he’s a big time player.  We need to focus on acquiring talent, and if it doesn’t work out fit-wise, he’s proven enough to remain an asset in trades.

  • Jul 1, 20131:03 am
    by Vince

    Reply

    I like the young players we have, with the new draft class. the price is high to bring Jose back along with the other 3 UR players. build with what we have and draft next year. leave smith and the others off the team…

  • Jul 1, 20131:24 am
    by Tyrone

    Reply

    Well I think that Smith and Calderon signing with the pistons will be a great for our team…  

    The talk about Monroe not wanting to be resigned or trade him is just crazy talk…  Drummond is still developing his game and very young man who still needs time to improve… 

    If Smith signs I believe that will be enough for Calderon to return to Detroit. Joe D has said multiple times that we need more athletic scorers on the wings. KCP, Smith, Mitchell, Knight, JJ all fit that bill.    

  • Jul 1, 20131:36 am
    by James

    Reply

    I got a baaaaadddd feeling about this. I like Josh Smith’s talent, but the kid is a head case and his attitude and disposition make him a risk on a growing young team. If he’ll take less than 7 mill a year, I can take that, because he’s still tradeable if he starts stealing money like Charlie V. Otherwise, let some other idiot GM pay him close to the max.

    • Jul 1, 20131:41 am
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      7 million per year??LOL. he won’t take double that to come here. If my memory serves me the Hawks offered him 16 per year and he turned them down

  • Jul 1, 20131:37 am
    by Ryan

    Reply

    He’s gonna get the max from someone. Very possibly Ainge. So unless we give him $18/year, he’s not coming. But if you get him on a 3-year instead of a 5-year deal, unless there’s still some Gordon/Villanueva poison in the water, clearly there’s a market for the kid and you can trade him if he proves not to be a fit.

    • Jul 1, 20131:47 am
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      !8 sounds about right to get him…

      • Jul 1, 20131:50 am
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        Though the problem with free agency at those numbers is once you buy him you’re stuck with him for the life of the contract until the final year when it is expiring. And even then it’s tough to unload.

        • Jul 1, 20139:38 am
          by Ryan

          Reply

          I think the best argument for getting Smith at the high price tag is that he is a pretty unusual talent, so it’s not impossible that you trade him in the first or second year if he doesn’t work out. I can see Ainge (once he has his 2014 pick), Billy King (because he’ll do anything), and a couple other GMs chalking it up, if he underperforms, to a cluttered front court (or something like that) and taking a gamble on him for 2 years. But it is a risk.

    • Jul 1, 20131:56 am
      by frankie d

      Reply

      someone is going to give smith a max contract.
      i’ve been thinking – dreading – that joe d would be the guy who did it.
      despite what the beat writers say, i still think joe d will offer the max.
      and smith would be a fool to not take it. 

  • Jul 1, 20132:01 am
    by Travis

    Reply

    How many All-Star teams has Josh Smith been selected to be on? How many playoff series has Smith won? Those answers sum up why I disagree signing Smith to any contract close to a max contract.

    • Jul 1, 20132:16 am
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      He does so many different things to contribute that not one skill stands out. But his overall game is just what any team covets. As I said earlier the success that Atlanta has experienced over the past 7-8 years despite many issues both on the floor and off, is directly atributable to Smith’s presence

  • Jul 1, 20132:42 am
    by Tom Y.

    Reply

    Josh Smith is not a talent upgrade, especially considering his natural position is manned by the much better (and improving) Greg Monroe. Dan, as a stats fan you are surely aware the man has a Win Share close to zero and a negative offensive win share. He’s an inefficient chucker, and even his D is overrated.

    Iggy – questionable but could be good. Smith – horrible, horrible idea. 

    • Jul 1, 20132:38 pm
      by G

      Reply

      I wouldn’t say Monroe is a better PF than Smith (he’s really not), but he’s less of a headache.

  • Jul 1, 20133:19 am
    by jay

    Reply

    too many of you guys just want to sign a big name

    smith is good yes but only if he has the right players around him, a line up of drummond moose and smith would be nice defensively but on the other side of the court they would not be as successful because it would be way too crowded

    you cant have 3 guys on the court that are not good shooters at a consistent rate, smith can shoot the long ball but not at a consistent rate, this would cause it to be easier to close out knight and kcp

    when smith was in atlanta he had more shooters around him and he didnt have two big men who own the paint like monroe and drummond, so he was able to move more freely, but in detroit he will have no space to do his thing, that is why it is a bad idea to get him

    also smith doesnt have a fundamentally sound type game, as he continues to age and lose his athleticism he will not be that great of a player

    you cant use his stats to say he is going to translate well to this team, if players were good based off stats alone monta ellis is a superstar 

    this team needs a version of josh smith who plays defense that is not related to stats but fundamental defense and they also need a small forward that can hit the 3 consistently

    josh smith is not a small forward that fits this team
     

  • Jul 1, 20137:37 am
    by Phil

    Reply

    I don’t get this AT ALL.  Josh Smith would be an absoltely terrible fit with this team.  I really, really wish they would go after OJ Mayo.  Starting lineup of Knight, Mayo, KCP, Monroe, Drummond would be pretty intriguing.  Not title worthy, but at least interesting.  Two guys who can handle and semi-distribute, three guys who can shoot the ball, two guys who can rebound, one guy who can defend the rim, one guy who can be the wing stopper (hopefully, KCP).  Definitely a better lineup that whatever they could throw out there with Josh Smith on board.

    • Jul 1, 20139:43 am
      by Ryan

      Reply

      We could almost certainly keep our 2014 pick with that lineup.

  • Jul 1, 20138:44 am
    by tarsier

    Reply

    “Josh Smith’s meeting with the Pistons took five hours because he spent the first 4:30 shooting threes.”

    -Desipio.com 

    • Jul 1, 201312:41 pm
      by Who Is Us

      Reply

      Funniear thing I’ve read today!

  • Jul 1, 20139:22 am
    by Tokz

    Reply

    As fans we should try to have more faith in our team. A lot of you don’t seem to have the insight to see that what Josh Smith offers to our team is not something that shows on the stat sheet. Joe D knows that which is why he is first priority. Josh will challenge this team to go hard every night. He’ll challenge Monroe the most. Just as Kentavious will challenge this team to work harder. The players/coaches he is looking at are players that carry the mentality of Detroit Basketball. These same comments were made about Rasheed before we got him and look how he transformed that pistons team. Rasheed has the chance to do that again as an assistant and I believe he will. Brandon may become the 6th man if Calderon returns. But that only will push him to get better as a PG due to his work ethic and mentality. Joe is not only preparing us for the next 3 -5 yrs but possibly for the next 7-9. The only player I’d probably go after more is Jeff Green. Iguodola doesn’t seem to have as much killer instinct/will to win as the others do.

    • Jul 1, 201310:14 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Who complained about the Sheed trade? I think that was one of the most exciting developments in my time as a Pistons fan.

      I really, really don’t want Dumars to overspend on Smith. But if he becomes a Piston, I do know I’ll love having him. 

  • Jul 1, 201311:38 am
    by drew

    Reply

    I think Joe is playing chess not checkers.   Yeah, signing an immediate hole with a guy like Mayo might make them better.  But not title contenders.  What is the point of building a playoff team just to make the playoffs?  This is the Detroit Pistons.  They make championship runs.  IMO, if the Pistons sign Smith (a BIG if), then Monroe probably gets moved.  Monroe is going to command a HUGE contact himself.  Maybe bigger than Smith’s, considering his age.  And as others pointed out – the three bigs on the floor together don’t make a whole lot of sense and Smith is really a stretch four.  But Smith can also play good defense.  He can block shots and plays perimeter bigs as well as anybody.  So you gain athleticism and defense for Monroe’s rebounding and offense if they trade Monroe.  Pistons seem to be wanting defense and athleticism this offseason so a move like this wouldn’t surprise me. 

    • Jul 1, 20131:36 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Dude, for a few years now Joe has downgraded from checkers to tiddlywinks.

  • Jul 1, 201311:53 am
    by matt

    Reply

    We have been bad for the last few years. We need talented players. Smith, Drummond, Monroe gives us 3 legit big guys. Everyone else in the big-man rotation can be shipped out. There are plenty of minutes to go around – Smith and Monroe can start, Drummond comes in off the bench. Monroe and Smith can play 2 positions each.  I don’t see Smith as a full-time small forward but maybe he plays it in some lineups. 

    I’m not sure Drummond is ready to play huge minutes as an NBA starting center for a championship contender. Let’s give him a few years. With a 4-year deal, Smith could be on his way out after a few seasons.

    Mmm, this kool-aid is delicious! 

  • Jul 1, 20131:36 pm
    by Ozzie-Moto

    Reply

    As i have repeatedly said:  JD if he comfortable with a player he tries to make them fit whether they do or not. He has not put a balanced team on the court in 6 years.  His early success with an oddly put together teams would be nearly impossible to repeat. Seems to lack the basic understanding of what a team needs.  Always lack balance necessary. At one point we had 5-6 shooting guards (though only 2 could shoot) has a 6’5 guy starting at power forward for a few years.. send Aaron Afflalo away even though he been exactly the kind of 2 guard we have needed the last few years.  Seems to think that ANYBODY can play small forward. And until bringing in Jose C late last year that being able to have more assists than turn over was an option for a point guard.  Good Rule:  DONT try and convert anyone to anything there not really cut out for … Like the   Chris Paul commercial goes some people are “born to assist”.  Hope Moose can learn to hit the mid range jumper otherwise another chemistry / roster issue.  

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