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Which player belongs No. 10 on the Pistons’ draft board?

Read this before voting

1. Ben McLemore

2. Victor Oladipo

3. Otto Porter

4. Trey Burke

5. Nerlens Noel

6. Anthony Bennett

7. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

8. C.J. McCollum

9. Michael Carter-Williams

57 Comments

  • Jun 26, 20138:11 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    http://nbadraft.net/

    Has Otto Porter falling to the Pistons…

    A wet Dream for many of you…

    • Jun 26, 20138:31 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      If Porter falls to us then that means at least 5-6 teams have reached. People keep saying he has reached his ceiling buy I don’t buy it. He’s gonna be an awesome pro.
       

      • Jun 26, 20138:41 am
        by sop

        Reply

        I like Porter’s game: he can pass, shoot, handle, defend and has a great attitude. But it worries me that he doesn’t do any of those things at an elite NBA level. If I’m picking top 6, do I want a Tayshaun Prince clone?

        • Jun 26, 201310:33 am
          by Keith

          Reply

          People seem to have a patently wrong opinion of both this draft and Tayshaun Prince.
           
          Firstly, go back and look at the 2002 draft when we got Prince. Looking at their careers in hindsight, Prince should have easily been a top 10 pick. I could make an argument that he should have been 5th or 6th overall. 
           
          Second, this draft is not special in terms of elite prospects or high end depth. There are a number of starters and role players, but no stars. You aren’t comparing Porter to other top 5 picks ever, just the top 5 picks in THIS draft. THIS draft isn’t strong at the top, so you need to re-evaluate your expectations for every pick. Is Porter likely to be a quality starter for the next 10-12 years? Yes. Can you REALLY say anything better than that about more than 3 other guys in this draft? No, not with any certainty. McLemore is incredibly limited as a ball-handler and is not mentally ready to be great. Oladipo has all the intangibles, but might ultimately just be Tony Allen. Noel has serious injury concerns. Bennett is hurt and is a tweener. Len is hurt and has a lot of questions about his effort and motivation. No one else is even a better prospect to begin with.
           
          It really bothers me that people don’t seem to realize that the draft is not made in a vacuum, that Tayshaun was easily better than his draft slot (and that his final few years here don’t retroactively downgrade how good he was when younger), and that no matter how much we try to talk ourselves into it, this draft just isn’t strong.

          • Jun 26, 201311:36 am
            by G

            ^This.

          • Jun 26, 201311:53 am
            by tarsier

            That and, at every point in his career thus far, Porter has been better than Prince at the same point.

            I don’t expect him to be a perennial all-star, but if he is a bit better than Tay, that would be really nice to have. 

      • Jun 26, 20138:53 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        I dont know if he will be an awesome pro…but 7,8,9 ..is where I ranked him originally….

        I watch him play alot…Only time I was blown away was when he dropped 33 against the Cuse….Before someone says something about his defense….IMO unless you are a game changing defender, I tend not to get overly excited about guys that defend well in college…

        In the NBA…playing in the east…everynight he will go against … Lebron James, Carmelo, Joe Johnson or Gerald Wallace, Paul George, or Granger, Rudy Gay or Derozan, Jeff Grreen, Josh Smith …. atleast 4 times each…Shooting over length leans nothing to those guys…its more about being physical and then on offense it about being agressive… Two thing Porter is not…

        Not saying you pass on him for those reasons, but once again….I root for the kid but not be overly excited

        I wouldnt be upset with him being the 8th pick, because he just makes sense…

        • Jun 26, 20139:01 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          and Loul Deng

        • Jun 26, 20139:47 am
          by gmehl

          Reply

          Frank we all know that you have wet dreams about Shabazz so you can keep shooting down all the guys that will get picked before him as much as you like cause its not going to make us want him at the 8th pick. Shabazz is bum and a left handed bum at that. The only way i’d be happy if Joe drafted him was if we got him with one of our second rounders. Porter would tick all the boxes that Shabazz doesn’t. The only one that he would tick over Porter is scoring and that is only if he was using his left hand. I will be happy with either McLemore, Porter, Burke, Bennett, Oladipo, McCollum or even Pope…pretty much whoever drops.

          • Jun 26, 201310:08 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”Frank we all know that you have wet dreams about Shabazz so you can keep shooting down all the guys that will get picked before him as much as you like cause its not going to make us want him at the 8th pick.”

            1. From the start I said “Len, Zeller, Carter-williams, Bennett, Shabazz, and Mclemore..the players who skill-set / abilities sets them apart in this draft….Zeller, Carter-williams, and Shabazz are like to be availalbe at 8…Bennett could slip…but Shabazz makes the most sense because we need a scorer and he is the most versatile scorer in the draft peroid. Not a wet dream, wet dream would be getting Prerry jones and Shabazz.

            “”Shabazz is bum and a left handed bum at that. The only way i’d be happy if Joe drafted him was if we got him with one of our second rounders.”"

            2. ignorance is bliss…Your lack of knowledge is dumbfounding

            “”Porter would tick all the boxes that Shabazz doesn’t. The only one that he would tick over Porter is scoring and that is only if he was using his left hand.”"

            3. If we draft Porter, i will want him to suceed, but there have been plenty of players like Porter who games change drastically in the NBA. I feel like he is truely fools-gold, not that he cant fit on a team, but he isnt going to push a team over the top either. They are projecting him as a role player. his value is that he is a safe pick. in this draft I’d wing for the fences because when its all said and done, if the player does bust…you end up in a much stronger draft next year

            “”I will be happy with either McLemore, Porter, Burke, Bennett, Oladipo, McCollum or even Pope…pretty much whoever drops.”"”

            4. Recently, I’ve become a McCollum fan…i dont like the idea of a small back court…but i wouldnt be upset about it, we dont need Burke, and if your a fan of Pope thats cool.

          • Jun 26, 201310:13 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            @ gmehl .. i apologize for the insults…it wasnt needed…

          • Jun 26, 20138:30 pm
            by gmehl

            No harm no foul but please don’t ever attack my knowledge level of basketball. I like all you guys here follow everything basketball everyday all day. I don’t agree with most things you say Frank but I will never attack you on a personal level. I really don’t think selecting Porter if we get the chance which I don’t thing we will is a safe choice. If Joe ever hits a home run in this draft then getting one of the consensus top 6 will achieve that.

    • Jun 26, 20138:43 am
      by Blocks by Dre

      Reply

      I don’t know how you can pick Burke over Porter if you’re the Pelicans, or pick CJ over Porter if you’re the Kings

    • Jun 26, 20138:48 am
      by G

      Reply

      Once again, a reason to discount nbadraft.net as a legitimate prognosticator. In addition to being poor talent evaluators (and making TERRIBLE comparisons between prospects & current players), they don’t actually base their mock drafts off of what a particular team is likely to do. Chad Ford’s strength is he tends to have a pretty good idea what a given team’s draft board looks like.

      I’d LOVE to get Porter, but Burke, McLemore or Bennett are looking like more likely candidates to slip (I wouldn’t mind any of those 3 either). 

      • Jun 26, 20139:00 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        I think Mock drafts are for pure entertainment…

        Fans take them more serious than experts, and they have to keep updating them or no one comes back to their sight.

        Chad Ford has Bounced Burke around to everyteam in the top 10 that didnt have a starting PG… Chad Ford has only recently beome a little more Mel Kiper like , and he plays it safe with the things he has said about players because they were starting to haunt him…

        • Jun 26, 20139:10 am
          by G

          Reply

          I can’t agree with the Kiper thing, only because I think Ford tends to have good sources in a lot of draft rooms. The reason he’s been all over the place so far is because this draft seems like more of a crap shoot than previous drafts have been. I DO agree though, he’s hedging a lot more than he used to. I think his glowing reviews of Darko haunt him more than they do Joe Dumars.

          If you want entertainment, check out nbadraft.net’s hilarious player comparisons. DeShawn Stephenson is the next Michael Jordan? Adam Morrison/Larry Bird? Sagana Diop/Bob Lanier? Wow.

          • Jun 26, 20139:49 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”I can’t agree with the Kiper thing, only because I think Ford tends to have good sources in a lot of draft rooms.”"

            1.Because most stuff in the NBA Draft is pretty wide open, there are little secrets. In the NFL once it gets to the 2nd/3rd rd, silence is golden and those are the money rounds… The less people that know your plans the better. Also, I feel Kiper does an excellent job is give player their proper value whether he likes them or not….Chad use to see all over the place…but he getting better

            “”The reason he’s been all over the place so far is because this draft seems like more of a crap shoot than previous drafts have been. I DO agree though, he’s hedging a lot more than he used to.”"

            2. not just this draft…in the 2011 draft he was AWFUL! …he hyped up Jan Vessley, He Hyped up Alex Burke,and, cant forget Biyomobo …. Like I said he got better but last year was easy to call for the most part…

            “”I think his glowing reviews of Darko haunt him more than they do Joe Dumars. If you want entertainment, check out nbadraft.net’s hilarious player comparisons. DeShawn Stephenson is the next Michael Jordan? Adam Morrison/Larry Bird? Sagana Diop/Bob Lanier? Wow. “”

            OH I know but to their defense I remember they released an article apologizing to readers..and since then they have done well with comparing guys to their floor more so than to the Taj Mahal Ceilings….

          • Jun 26, 201310:09 am
            by G

            The 2011 draft was pretty hard to evaluate too, if you recall. The consensus was there wasn’t really a top player in the draft (unlike Wall, Griffin, & LeBron previously) and the talent tiers were pretty close and/or mixed. The consensus turned out to be wrong (Irving was clearly the top player, Williams not even CLOSE to 2nd best), and there have been several potential busts in the top 10 picks (Williams, Vesely, Biyombo, Fredette). I think we can expect similar things in this draft – players that we’re not sure about will be pretty good & one or 2 of the top 6 players will be a bust.

            Re: nbadraft.net – I think using a player’s floor rather than ceiling for a comp is just as bad. Really they weren’t using a reasonable ceiling before though. What a comp should do is give you an expectation for what a prospect will do for his NBA team. The comp should match the player’s style & potential productivity. Example – currently they have Alex Len’s comp as Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I actually think that’s a decent comp, but not a player I’d take #1 overall, even in this draft.  

          • Jun 26, 201310:27 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            I understand your point..but he was still horrible, in the way he over valued the talent in that draft…. Jay Bilas said it best …”its okay to just say I dont know”..

            chad makes stuff up to make it seem like he has the inside scoop…i also think he plays favorites…but that neither here nor there…

            I said it from the start, Although I would have rather a higher pick, there nothing exciting about the top prospect in this draft no matter how we hype them up.

            No one had len Projected as the number one pick, until now…
            Oladipo is basically a one year wonder
            Noel even if Healthy is just a underweight shot-blocker
            Mclemore is the most talented, but seems to have mental issues
            Bennett is a tweener, with weight problems
            Porter  first compared himself to a role player & then to Durant….

            So yes this is a hard draft to evaluate…

          • Jun 26, 201311:07 am
            by oats

            Very little of what Ford writes is his own opinion though. He largely is repeating what he hears from front offices. Front office types were really high on Vesely for whatever reason, and he went right where Ford had him going. If Ford is talking about his own opinion he clarifies it as that, but chances are if you are reading an article you are reading his best compilation of the consensus he is hearing from front office types.

  • Jun 26, 20139:01 am
    by Schmidt

    Reply

    How is Alex Len not on the draft board yet? I know we have good big men, but a 7 footer with a good offensive game and decent range isn’t attractive? The least he could be is trade bait. You could even have a 3 man rotation with Len and drummond, 2 7-footers playing together at times

    • Jun 26, 20139:37 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Drummond and Monroe are the same height, although they did apparently happen to wear different sized shoes at the combine.

      • Jun 26, 201311:54 am
        by Sop

        Reply

        Good point Schmidty. Bad point tars.The fact that Len being considered for the #1 pick, is as close to a lock for the top 6 as anyone not named Noel and yet ranks 10th (or maybe 11th) in Piston Powered fan voting is ridiculous. Picking for team need (at the moment) especially with a huge free agency summer for the Pistons is absurd. You must pick BPA PERIOD. Quoting Bilas from his debate out today: “I believe the NBA draft is about acquiring assets.” The Pistons picked for fit when they selected Darko and not Carmelo. This is what happens when  you don’t go BPA.

        • Jun 26, 201312:24 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I wasn’t making a case for or against Len. I was just observing that Schmidt mentioned that if the Pistons had the trio of Drummond, Monroe, Len, they could play two 7 footers when Monroe sits. So I though I’d comment on the fact that Monroe and Drummond are the same height. Irrelevant, but it’s what his comment brought to mind.

        • Jun 26, 201312:39 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          But I agree with oats that I just don’t find Len that intriguing.

          I would definitely pick him over MCW and probably over CJ and KCP but below Zeller. Len/Bazz is a tossup for me as the 8th prospect.

          But I can see people legitimately rating him as the 12th best prospect in the draft, not just based on fit with the Pistons. 

          • Jun 26, 20131:48 pm
            by Sop

            I’m fine with Zeller over Len but if you’re really looking to lockup assets in the draft Len might be more coveted because he’s legit Center size and is skilled for his size and age. Most teams would give up a lot for big man like that on a rookie contract. I definitely think we could get Klay Thompson from GSW or possible Rondo or McLemore from CHA if we also removed the protections from our 2014 pick we sent to them.

    • Jun 26, 201311:14 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I don’t think Len is all that good. He disappears in games, even against bad teams. I have no interest in potentially getting stuck with him.

  • Jun 26, 20139:46 am
    by Blocks by Dre

    Reply

    OKC is trying to move up. I would be ok with giving them our 8th for their 12th and Perry jones 

    • Jun 26, 20139:52 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      In a HEART BEAT! … Perry Jones at SF fixes soo many problems…

      Especially if Shabazz is still availalble…

      OKC want Steve Adams, and they believe that Portland or Philly will snatch him

      • Jun 26, 201310:22 am
        by G

        Reply

        Not sure how Perry Jones fixes so many problems… He’s got no 3PT shot and is a poor defender. I’d like to get him for his potential, but he still is working on his game & isn’t good enough to be an NBA starter.

        If Detroit does that trade & picks up Shabazz at #12, they’d still need a PG and a starting SF. Jones would be in the mix between Middleton & Singler for backup SF (unless Singler ends up starting again), and I’d predict he would end up 3rd behind Middleton. Shabazz would challenge Knight for starting SG and again, not sure who wins that. They might switch Shabazz to SF and play them both, but that would make the Pistons undersized at the wings and in bad shape defensively.

        I might do the deal for PJ3, the 12th pick, and a 1st rounder next year. PJ3 would be more of a throw in than anything.

        • Jun 26, 201310:33 am
          by Blocks by Dre

          Reply

          My thinking is that Pope will be there if we get the 12th pick so we wouldn’t have to reach for MCW, PJ3 (in my opinion) still has potential and whatever player we draft anyways unless its a PG is coming off the bench for whatever free agent we sign. Perry has more of a shot to shine here than in OKC

        • Jun 26, 201310:37 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          Just open your mind up a bit…Listen to my scenario …

          “”Not sure how Perry Jones fixes so many problems… He’s got no 3PT shot and is a poor defender. I’d like to get him for his potential, but he still is working on his game & isn’t good enough to be an NBA starter.”"

          1. We started Kyle Singler and Kris Middleton…Perry Jones right now is more talented than both of those players. Last year how many drives to the basket Singler wasnt able to finish because he lack athletism?? all of a sudden you have someone that can finish those plays… defense can be learn, and he has all the physical gets to be a solid to good defender. Perry Jones feel because of injury concerns not because of talent or ability concerns

          “”If Detroit does that trade & picks up Shabazz at #12, they’d still need a PG and a starting SF. Jones would be in the mix between Middleton & Singler for backup SF (unless Singler ends up starting again), and I’d predict he would end up 3rd behind Middleton. Shabazz would challenge Knight for starting SG and again, not sure who wins that. They might switch Shabazz to SF and play them both, but that would make the Pistons undersized at the wings and in bad shape defensively.”"

          2. I know you disagree, but I believe knight will be fine, plus Chad Ford said he more upside than Kyrie irving!, (couldnt help myself), The PG position is overrated in the NBA, unless you are getting an Elite PG, or a All-Star Caliber PG it really doesnt matter, and I’d like to see what Knight could do with some weapons and athletism around him, before we give up on that 141 game project.

          “”I might do the deal for PJ3, the 12th pick, and a 1st rounder next year. PJ3 would be more of a throw in than anything”"

          3. all know you value you talent and need… but maybe just swap 2nd rd picks this year

          • Jun 26, 201310:38 am
            by I HATE FRANK

             ”Perry Jones fell because of injury concerns not because of talent or ability concerns”

          • Jun 26, 201310:52 am
            by G

            Well, injury, motor, AND the fact that he was never THAT good in the first place. Remember, he was supposed to be this dynamite player out of high school and it never really happened. Check his college stats – how can a 6’11″ guy in college be THAT bad of a rebounder? His scoring hovered under 14 ppg… You say Singler couldn’t finish, but PJ3 is SO SLOW I don’t think it matters all that much how high he can jump. I’d start Singler over Jones simply for the 3PT shooting and the fact that at least Singler can defend without losing his jock.

            As far as PG goes, I don’t need to have Chris Paul, but I want someone who can at least bring the ball up court without turning it over, make an entry pass into the post, and make the defense respect his shot. Think 2001 Chucky Atkins. Knight isn’t at that level, and I doubt he ever will be. 

          • Jun 26, 201312:53 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”Well, injury, motor, AND the fact that he was never THAT good in the first place. Remember, he was supposed to be this dynamite player out of high school and it never really happened. Check his college stats – how can a 6’11? guy in college be THAT bad of a rebounder? His scoring hovered under 14 ppg… You say Singler couldn’t finish, but PJ3 is SO SLOW I don’t think it matters all that much how high he can jump. I’d start Singler over Jones simply for the 3PT shooting and the fact that at least Singler can defend without losing his jock.”"

            1, I really respect you…seriously..but you are soo off on this one…where have you ever read that perry joes was slow? and also I watch bayor basket, they have PG’s that looked for their own shots playing hero ball, and Perry Jones was playing PF being put in the post, when he is a natural wing player… They questioned Drummond motor to, but it was the injury to his foot being miss diagnoised more than anything.

            “”As far as PG goes, I don’t need to have Chris Paul, but I want someone who can at least bring the ball up court without turning it over, make an entry pass into the post, and make the defense respect his shot. Think 2001 Chucky Atkins. Knight isn’t at that level, and I doubt he ever will be.”"

            2. once again Knight will be nice, you guys are so quick to push the panic button…

          • Jun 26, 20131:15 pm
            by G

            Sorry, I was getting his combine numbers mixed up with Thomas Robinson’s (whose lane agility is up there with Dick Bavetta’s). Put it this way – PJ3 is not as quick as Singler is and is far less apt a defender. 

            There is a difference between the questioning of Drummond’s motor and the questioning of Jones’: Drummond laid those questions to rest, Perry Jones is still trying to answer them. He might be a wing player, but he has no outside shot so he doesn’t fit this team AT ALL. Some teams can get away with a SF that can’t shoot three’s, Detroit isn’t one of them.  

            Knight will be nice? Based on what? I’ve said before, I’m not ready to give up on him as a player but I haven’t seen anything that suggest potential as a PG. If you have, I’m all ears (or eyes as it were).

          • Jun 26, 20132:19 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Perry Jones is not suited to play small forward. Too Slow!

      • Jun 26, 201312:04 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        If none of my top 6 (Porter, McLemore, Noel, Bennett, Burke, Oladipo) are available at 8, I’d happily swap 8 for 12 + PJ3. One of Zeller, Len, Bazz, KCP, CJ, MCW will still be there and I don’t have much preference within that group.

        • Jun 26, 201312:08 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I would expect PJ3 to never contribute in any meaningful way at all. But the fact of the matter is that there is a tiny chance he becomes a superstar. It’s not every day that you can get a guy with that upside, no matter how low his floor is.

  • Jun 26, 201310:32 am
    by Travis

    Reply

    Say NO to Shabazz!
    Teams won’t even have to do a detailed scouting report on him prior to each game. He’s more one dimensional than Ben Gordon and we all witnessed how that went. 

    • Jun 26, 201310:50 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Jr smith is one dimensional
      Micheal Redd was one Dimensional
      Jamal Crawford One Dimensional
      Kevin Martin in his prime One Dimensional
      Durant first few years in the league one Dimensional
      Carmelo Anthony One dimensional
      Rudy Gay one dimensional
      Deronaz One Dimensional
      Ben Gordan with the Bulls his best years One Dimensional
      Eric Gordon One Dimensional
      Gallinari One Dimensional
      Granger one Dimensional

      Several this one dimensional players…have been all-star, or Key factors for thier team success.

      • Jun 26, 201312:16 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Smith, Crawford, Martin, Ben Gordon and let’s throw Ellis in there are reasonable comparisons for what to hope for from Bazz. Gallinari would be the pipe dream.

        DeRozan just sucks.

        Eric Gordon and Granger are actually pretty darn good two way players when healthy.

        Redd was one dimensional, but so good at that one dimension that he could have been a Ray Allen if not for injuries.

        Anthony and Durant were such phenomenal scorers that they would have been stars even if they were one dimensional. But both have also consistently been excellent rebounders.

        • Jun 26, 20131:07 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          “”Smith, Crawford, Martin, Ben Gordon and let’s throw Ellis in there are reasonable comparisons for what to hope for from Bazz. Gallinari would be the pipe dream.”"

          1. So you pretty much agree ShaBazz can be among some of the top scorers in the league, Each of those guys have been key factors in their team sucess, all have had strong all-star consideration in thr past…but dont take a guy comparable to them in this draft? …makes perfect sense Especially when we need a scorer…smh … 
          “”Anthony and Durant were such phenomenal scorers that they would have been stars even if they were one dimensional. But both have also consistently been excellent rebounders.”"

          EXCELLENT? Anthony first 4 years averages 6.1 ,5.7, 4.9, 6.0 rebounds playing SF ..he’s 6’8 230-240 ….

          Durant first 2 years averaged 4.4 and 6.5….Durant gets a slight pass because he was still physically developing…  

          • Jun 26, 20131:34 pm
            by G

            I’d say Kevin Martin is Shabazz’s ceiling, Jamal Crawford a reasonable expectation, and Ben Gordon of the last 4 years his floor. You realize that with the exception of Martin, ALL those guys are REALLY inefficient scorers, right?

            Anthony isn’t a good rebounder overall, but I’m guessing that tarsier was talking about OFFENSIVE boards, which ‘Melo is actually pretty good at. Durant shoots a lot of outside shots so he doesn’t get those, but his rebounding numbers are pretty good for a perimeter player. And it doesn’t change the fact that they are the top 2 scorers in the league. 

            Personally I think Shabazz is likely to become a multi-dimensional player, which is why I rate him over KCP. If it was Shabazz’s scoring alone vs. KCP’s game, I’d take KCP, but I think Shabazz is working on the other parts of his game. 

          • Jun 26, 20132:07 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”I’d say Kevin Martin is Shabazz’s ceiling, Jamal Crawford a reasonable expectation, and Ben Gordon of the last 4 years his floor. You realize that with the exception of Martin, ALL those guys are REALLY inefficient scorers, right?”"

            1.Fair enough… once again ..My comparison is Isiah Rider/Rip Hamilton type…16ppg-19ppg scorer…44-46% 36%-37% for 3′s ….I just believe scoring isnt going to be his issue

            “”Anthony isn’t a good rebounder overall, but I’m guessing that tarsier was talking about OFFENSIVE boards, which ‘Melo is actually pretty good at. Durant shoots a lot of outside shots so he doesn’t get those, but his rebounding numbers are pretty good for a perimeter player. And it doesn’t change the fact that they are the top 2 scorers in the league.”"

            2. Fair enough again, shabazz was the best offensive rebounding player at his position in college, but i believe in the NBA more will be required of him on the defensive end including rebounds. Especially with Cheeks, He played with Bozi Wells and help Well become a much better player than people expected.

            “”Personally I think Shabazz is likely to become a multi-dimensional player, which is why I rate him over KCP. If it was Shabazz’s scoring alone vs. KCP’s game, I’d take KCP, but I think Shabazz is working on the other parts of his game.”"

            3. Of Course I agree, but honestly… Im open to Pope… and I think Danny Green/Jr Smith ….my biggest problem with a player like that..once they start missing you donrt know when they are going to get going again, but they can only get going by keep taking long shots…Vs a player like Shabazz, he can score in a several ways, slashing, posting up, coming off screen, and curling and even the Floater… I’d rather Swing for the fences with shabazz and play the odds

      • Jun 26, 201312:22 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        The long and short  of it isn’t that Bazz is useless because he is one dimensional. It’s that he doesn’t look good enough at that one dimension to make up for the fact that he will be competing with lots of other people who also contribute in other ways.

        I just don’t see what you don’t understand about this. I’ve explained it to you repeatedly. It’s fine if you disagree, but the point has been addressed. We keep pointing to his one-dimensionality as a problem because it is one, not because it is in and of itself a deal-breaker. And then you respond to the argument nobody made that all one-dimensional players suck.

        No, the fact is that we might grade a B+ scorer who gets Ds on everything else below a B- scorer who gets Cs on everything else. Surely you can see why that would be a reasonable assessment even if you might lean the other way. I waffle on it myself.

        • Jun 26, 20131:21 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          “”he long and short  of it isn’t that Bazz is useless because he is one dimensional. It’s that he doesn’t look good enough at that one dimension to make up for the fact that he will be competing with lots of other people who also contribute in other ways.”"

          1. who cares, and you still dont know what he is capable of outside of scoring, he did what he was asked to do…thats the bottomline

          “”I just don’t see what you don’t understand about this. I’ve explained it to you repeatedly. It’s fine if you disagree, but the point has been addressed. We keep pointing to his one-dimensionality as a problem because it is one, not because it is in and of itself a deal-breaker. And then you respond to the argument nobody made that all one-dimensional players suck.”"

          2. So if I give you list a players considered one dimensional, several of the players have gotten better over time or they have beome more diverse over time. How can you just assume that Shabazz wont? Even when I talk about pope or porter, Im not saying they cant or wont ger better im saying right now…and right Now Shabazz is a scorer, and we need a scorer. If we need a PF, i’d be gun-ho for Zeller, if we needed a Center I’d be gun-ho Steve Adams, if we didnt have Brandon Knight or if the Decision to trade knight or move him to SG…Id be Burke or Carter-williams… Former NBA players, Coaches and Scouts All Agree that Shabazz can become a very good NBA, right now. Sorry, I’ll roll with what they say, before I listen to close-minded critic.

          “”No, the fact is that we might grade a B+ scorer who gets Ds on everything else below a B- scorer who gets Cs on everything else. Surely you can see why that would be a reasonable assessment even if you might lean the other way. I waffle on it myself”"

          3. Thats fine…we will see… Like you said the horse has been beat to a bloody mess…. Your logic just doesnt make sense. My logic NO ONE QUESTIONS that he can score in the this, Everyone say he will have a very good advantage because of his size and length, he didnt rebound defensive, but he rebounded the best at his position offensive, He didnt rack up ast, because he was the finisher in the offense, and not the create of offense.Physically he has the tools to be a solid defender …. So maybe if you be a little more open-minded , you could see the value he could bring to this team

          • Jun 26, 20131:50 pm
            by G

            Your logic is a bit myopic. That’s a major reason why this argument has gone on as long as it has. Tarsier’s logic makes perfect sense to me. 

            If you assume that all parts of the game are equal – scoring, passing, rebounding, defending, and ball control, then a player rated B+/D/C/C-/C (2.0 avg) in those categories is not as good as a player that is rated B/C/C+/B-/C- (2.35 avg) in those categories. It’s pretty straight forward.

          • Jun 26, 20132:17 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”Smith, Crawford, Martin, Ben Gordon and let’s throw Ellis in there are reasonable comparisons for what to hope for from Bazz. Gallinari would be the pipe dream.””

            This the logic that doesnt make sense…. you cant agree that he compares to some of the best scorers in the league and then act like its a bad thing… because he doesnt rebound, defend, and get enough ast….

            Because there are plenty of quality starters that do the same thing….

            Example: you wouldnt take Kevin Martin or JR Smith, @ 8th pick in this draft…if he gave you 19-20ppg 44% 37% but average to below average defense and 4-5rebs?

            Im not looking for shabazz to become a savior in detroit, but he does will a need..A major need

          • Jun 26, 20132:20 pm
            by tarsier

            You keep on saying he did what he was asked to do.

            Every player is asked to help a team win games. no coach is saying “Hey, I need you to score and then don’t even bother to try to do anything else”.

            Muhammad may have been primarily asked to score, but so were most of the players he is being evaluated against. The difference is that they all managed to help in other ways too. So Bazz isn’t a better prospect if he just edges them in scoring prowess, he has to blow them out of the water. 

          • Jun 26, 20132:45 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”You keep on saying he did what he was asked to do.”"

            1. do some research….Why do everyone who follow college basketball agrees, that in the UCLA system players are asked to do certain thing in the name of the system except for you?

            “”Every player is asked to help a team win games. no coach is saying “Hey, I need you to score and then don’t even bother to try to do anything else””

            2. His role was a scorer…he was also the leak / lead transition guy…So if Ben Designates Shabazz to be the release guy on the defensive end, to create easier scoring opportunities for the team because he was the teams best finisher, it helps the team win. His offensive rebound suggest that he is a quick leaper, who isnt afraid of contact…. BTW: UCLA did win, they won the Pac-12 …
            “”Muhammad may have been primarily asked to score, but so were most of the players he is being evaluated against. The difference is that they all managed to help in other ways too. So Bazz isn’t a better prospect if he just edges them in scoring prowess, he has to blow them out of the water.”"

            3. Thats COLLEGE! Some guys dont even project as scorers right away at the next level… Its depends on what you value…right now for the Pistons, I value a scorer, over a guy that probably wont score as well but play average to solid defense and get 7rebs instead of 5 …2,5 ast instead of 1 ….

          • Jun 26, 20132:57 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            im not bashing Porter…

            But offensive Shabazz will be a better offensive player than Porter…The bulk of Porter offense can on the block, he used his length to shooter over small defender…then when he was moved to PF…he was causing match problems… that works in college….

            In the NBA ..he is not a match up problem… not not a single team in the eastern coference

            so then it will come down to a perimeter game…. Shabazz has the better perimeter game, and he is quicker than Porter is lateral, and he’s more of an explosive leaper and finisher around the basket…He is a dominate lefty but So was Manu,,,

            People question Porter ball-handling at the college level, he is not Scootie Pippen, he is a good decision maker with the ball… but alot of his production came down to match ups, and system built around him to be a facilitor…once again, I dont make this stop up

            Thats why they say he will be a nice role player, or a safe pick… But if thats what you value..thats cool

            I dont even believe the pistons are gonna draft Shabazz any longer…but it doesnt mean he would not make sense here

  • Jun 26, 201310:56 am
    by koz

    Reply

    The Wizard of Shabazz! Draft him, Sign him, Play him, I’m with I HATE FRANK on this one. We need shooters. let the man play!

    • Jun 26, 20131:22 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      We all we got Koz…

      • Jun 26, 20132:37 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        I see a lot of comparisons on this board  of Muhammad and Pope to past all stars. Really? The only 2 guys in this draft with all star potential that I see are Mclemore and Oladipo. Of course there is no way to predict who might unexpectedly develop or surprise everyone with skills not currently uncovered by their film, but come on where do these comparisons come from? 

  • Jun 26, 20136:28 pm
    by AYC

    Reply

    Shabazz brings a lot to the Pistons.  Significant weakness in going right.  ”B” athleticism.  An unknown position.  Porous perimeter defense.  Character concerns.  What’s not to love?

    • Jun 27, 20139:21 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Shabazz brings a lot to the Pistons.  

      “”Significant weakness in going right”"
      1. same knock was on Harden, and Manu …Also we are not looking for Shabazz to come in right away and be ISO on 70% of the plays, he’s going to be a catch and shoot player…A guy that can finish in transition, and who can score in the lane

      “””B” athleticism”"

      2. He tested better than both Pope ( who everyone hear calls athletic) and he tested better than Porter (who everyone here really likes)

       ”"An unknown position”"

      3. LOL…I love it that people say he doesnt have a position, like he is a 6’6 PF ..he is a 6’6 SG who can play SF … LOL people kill me

       ”"Porous perimeter defense”"

      4. yeah and player never get better at defense

       ”Character concerns.”

      5. Teams have dont background checks on him, he comes up clear…he had one major issue not celebrating with his teammate

        ”What’s not to love?”

      exactly

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