↓ Login/Logout ↓
Schedule/Results
↓ Roster ↓
Salaries
↓ Archives ↓
↓ About ↓

Trey Burke will hang over Pistons’ Kentavious Caldwell-Pope pick for a while

NEW YORK – Trey Burke – his mouth slightly agape, his face wide with dread – clapped for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, the Detroit Pistons’ pick at No. 8 in the 2013 NBA Draft. Then, Burke turned his head to the right and stared off into an murky and potentially disastrous future.

A day ago, after meeting with the Pistons, Burke said his draft range was No. 2 through No. 8. He hadn’t worked out for any teams picking shortly after the Pistons, and he worried he could fall far.

But the Minnesota Timberwolves drafted the former University of Michigan star one pick later, agreeing to send him to the Utah Jazz for two first-round picks. Burke didn’t know about the trade when he shook David Stern’s hand, and he had to sit in a backroom until it became official.

“My mind was pretty much everywhere,” Burke said.

Burke’s purgatory lasted minutes. The Pistons’ could last a decade.

Right reasons for Trey Burke

Defenders of the Caldwell-Pope pick will claim Detroit fans wanted Burke only because he played at Michigan.

They’ll bring up 1987, when Indiana Pacers fans booed Reggie Miller as their team passed on Indiana University star Steve Alford with the No. 11 pick. But Miller, not Pope, was listed nationally as a top prospect before the draft. If the Pacers didn’t take Miller, the Washington Bullets would have snatched him up at No. 12. When the Pacers passed on Alford, he lasted all the way to the second round.

Burke was gone a single pick after the Pistons passed.

These situations are nothing alike.

Chad Ford’s top 100, ESPN’s expert panel, ESPN’s sampling of NBA evaluators, Kevin Pelton of ESPN, DraftExpress and Mike Prada of SB Nation – every credible draft board I could find – all ranked Burke ahead of Caldwell-Pope. None of those evaluators have a Michigan bias.

Wrong reasons for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

There would be a very simple and defensible reason for the Pistons to draft Caldwell-Pope ahead of Burke: Joe Dumars believes Caldwell-Pope is a better prospect that Burke.

I disagree with that assessment, but Dumars should have every freedom to make his own determinations, draft accordingly and deal with the consequences. Picking a player simply because of his local ties will do the Pistons no good in the long term. To draw fans and make money, they need to win. And to win, the Pistons need better players.

Unfortunately, it seems Dumars prioritized drafting a wing over drafting a good player.

Dave Pemberton of The Oakland Press:

“The draft really doesn’t come down to a popularity contest. It comes down to teams trying to fill their needs.”

Via David Mayo of MLive:

"We are basically desolate at the wing positions," Dumars said. "It was just a major focus of ours, going into this draft, that we have to upgrade the wing athletic shooting. Just don’t have enough wing long athletes. And so that was going to be a priority for us."

Via Keith Langlois of Pistons.com:

“When you look at our board, there is not a name up there where we say ‘two guard,’ ” Dumars said, talking about his team’s depth chart. “We have Khris Middleton and Kyle Singler (at small forward); we have (Rodney) Stuckey and Brandon (Knight), who are more combo guards. But just in terms of wing athletes, we don’t have enough and it was a position we knew we had to fill. When you look at the game today, you see more of the wing-athletic-shooters and you have to have that. It was time for us to address that.”

What’s missing from those quotes? Dumars saying Caldwell-Pope was the best player available.

Drafting Caldwell-Pope over Burke because he ranks higher makes sense. Drafting Caldwell-Pope over Burke because they’re in the same tier and wing is a greater need than point guard (which is not a positional preference I share) is understandable.

But simply cutting off other options to draft the best wing available is foolish.

Does Dumars, ignoring need momentarily, rank Caldwell-Pope equal to or ahead of Knight? I’d love to hear Dumars answer that question.

Update: Dumars did address whether Caldwell-Pope was the best player available. As transcribed by Sean Corp of Detroit Bad Boys:

We felt that he was the best player. And we also felt that he was a need as well. Sometimes it comes together like that. It’s a little bit like Drummond last year. We had a definite need. We didn’t have that kind of big and he was the best talent on the board. Sometimes it comes together like that.

This is the first time in a while that you can’t say that someone just fell to us. It was a deep draft at the two-guard spot. I don’t know what’s happening now, what’s going on with the draft right now but there is going to be several more two guards that are going to go off in the first round. Guys that are going to score.

It was that draft. It wasn’t one of these monster drafts. But in that particular position you were going to get a good player.

Here’s one Dumars more quote via Corp (emphasis mine):

We felt like in this particular draft that the two-guard spot especially was pretty deep in terms of this draft. And so we knew that at 8 we knew that one of those two guards would be there and so we focused on that early on in the process.

Dumars’ frequent references to need were quite different than previous drafts, and I find that telling. Also, is someone who focused on shooting guards early in the process necessarily qualified to say definitively whether a player at another position was better? You be the judge.

The Pistons outsmarted teams that picked in before them or could have traded up by perpetrating a ruse that they never met with Caldwell-Pope. In reality, they had a lengthy lunch with Caldwell-Pope.

The Pistons outsmarted their second pick, Tony Mitchell, too. After an interview with the Pistons he described as “intense, really intense,” he never thought they’d draft him.

All around, this was a clever draft by the Pistons. But did they outsmart themselves?

The last time Joe Dumars identified an NBA trend it was stretch fours, and that got Charlie Villanueva the huge contract that’s still saddling Detroit. The Pistons don’t need “wing-athletic-shooters.” They need good players.

The Pistons don’t have anyone who has proven himself to be a good point guard and is under contract for next season. Point guard is an area of need, if the team isn’t trying to shortcut it’s rebuild, just as much as wing, but that just confuses the main point.

Drafting for need when better prospects are available is usually a poor approach.

Unknown result with Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Caldwell-Pope is a good prospect – I ranked him No. 7 on my pre-draft board – and the Pistons should be pleased to have him. He could easily turn into a very good player.

But that can no longer be the standard for determining whether he was the right pick. Outperforming Burke, fair or not, is the only measure that will be accepted.

If Burke excels in Utah, Dumars will have pushed away even further a fan base that has already distanced itself from the Pistons. That will almost certainly play into Tom Gores’ decision whether or not to retain Dumars after this season, and Dumars has to have known that when he passed on Burke.

Dumars isn’t doing himself any favors, hiring a coaching with a track record that rarely indicates future success and now passing on Burke for Caldwell-Pope. But it’s a long offseason, and with $20 million-plus in cap room looming, it’s way to early make any roster prognostications.

It’s unclear whether Dumars’ emphasis on a wing means he still views Brandon Knight primarily as a point guard or whether the Pistons will target a point guard in free agency. It’s unclear whether Maurice Cheeks has learned from his mistakes in Portland and Philadelphia or whether he’s in over his head. It’s unclear whether Caldwell-Pope’s 3-point shooting and athleticism will make him the immediate contributor Dumars needs him to be or whether an extended transition to the NBA will keep Caldwell-Pope benched.

Burke would not have singlehandedly answered all the questions facing the Pistons, but he could have answered some of them. Instead, Dumars and Caldwell-Pope are left to show why the Georgia wing was so appealing.

This could all work out, and just because passing on Burke looks foolish today doesn’t mean it will seem that way in a year or two. For all the grading we do this week, the real results don’t come in until much later.

Time will tell whether Dumars outsmarted all of us or outsmarted himself. For the previous three years, he’s let highly rated players – Monroe, Knight, Drummond – slip to him and then comfortably drafted them. Passing on Burke to draft Caldwell-Pope was anything but comfortable, and that indicates how confident Dumars was in his decision.

Or how stubbornly wrong he was.

278 Comments

  • Jun 28, 20131:16 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    He actually did say late in the interview that it was one of those times, like with Drummond, where team need and the best prospect available were one and the same. But the fact that he took so long to say that, and the overall tone of the interview, did suggest that he might not believe it.

    KCP could end up better than Burke. But Burke is hands down the better prospect. As Dan pointed out, this perspective is nearly unanimous amongst basketball people and not at all limited to Wolverines fans.

    Dumars screwed up and last night was depressing. But hey, I’m really pleased about Mitchell. he probably won’t amount to anything, but at least he has upside.

    • Jun 28, 20131:34 pm
      by Phunwin

      Reply

      Yup.  Here’s the exact quote, courtesy of detroitbadboys.com:
      “We felt that he was the best player. And we also felt that he was a need as well. Sometimes it comes together like that. It’s a little bit like Drummond last year. We had a definite need. We didn’t have that kind of big and he was the best talent on the board. Sometimes it comes together like that.”

      • Jun 28, 20131:44 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        There you go. I knew I remembered something along those lines.

  • Jun 28, 20131:17 pm
    by Ryan

    Reply

    Exactly. Unfortunately, right now it looks like Joe won’t get to see through the results of this pick after one season. But let’s see how the summer plays out.

  • Jun 28, 20131:20 pm
    by Huddy

    Reply

    Couldn’t agree more on the assessment of Joe’s statements on the pick.  On a lottery team that is only set at 2 positions it is unacceptable to only be able to defend a pick by saying “we needed a wing”.  Its not as if Joe reached into the 2nd round for KCP, but if he is going to stand tall and take the backlash from fans calling for Burke (or even McCallum, MCW, whoever else was available) he needs to be able to say that he chose the best player…and he did not say that.
     
    I hope KCP is an instant addition to the line-up.  If Joe is sure that athleticism is the wave to ride the team better put its best foot froward and not hide KCP on the bench like Drummond was last year.

    • Jun 28, 20134:37 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Correction: This team is “set” at one (1) position. Center. Greg Monroe is a center. If his best position was Power Forward, don’t you think he might have played some minutes there by now? There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that he and Drummond are going to be a good fit together. This team is anything but “set” at the 4-5.

      • Jun 28, 20135:08 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Greg Monroe played PF full time when Drummond returned to the lineup at the end of the season, and it seemed to work out well. For this particular team, that should qualify as “set”.

      • Jun 28, 201310:31 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        Monroe and Drummond seem like a perfect fit at the four and five to me.   Monroe has already proven to often require a double team at center.   Power forwards should have an even harder time defending him with single coverage.  Now, even in a small sample size, we’ve already seen that when teams double Monroe with Drummond on the floor that Monroe can find Drummond for easy dunks.   

        They are extremely complimentary.   Monroe’s biggest flaw is that he is a mostly below the rim finesse player.  He has been at best so far a somewhat capable rim defender.   Drummond on the other hand is an above the rim beast and was so as one of the very youngest players in the league last year.   He is only going to get more beastly and he is much better at protecting the rim.      I have also noticed Monroe does have a bit of a flair when he is not thinking about protecting the rim for showing on the perimeter and breaking up plays.  For a big man he is much better at getting steals and blocks.   I actually think Monroe can be a much better defender in general if his role was more about shutting down driving lanes and allowing the guards to chase shooters off the 3 point shot.   Drummond is the key to all of this.   

        Frank should have been fired early in the year when he did not start Drummond in the first third of the season.  It seems quite obvious to me that the Pistons should be one of the best rebounding teams in the league as soon as they put Monroe and Drummond together full time.   Who else in the league really has two bigs who should both be able to average upwards of ten rebounds.   Monroe has actually been one of the league’s better rebounders his entire NBA career and just one of the amazing things about Drummond’s rookie year was that he instantly looked like a better rebounder than Monroe.  

        The funny thing about doubting Monroe at power forward is twofold.  First, he should probably always have been playing power forward and second that he has played plenty of power forward with Ben Wallace and has looked much more comfortable doing so.   

  • Jun 28, 20131:25 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    As I have said umpteen times on other posts their most glaring need was an upgrade to  shooting guard, small forward and a first off the bench 4-5. After the first seven taken Dumars in my opinion there was a drop in talent level. Given the options at 8 Dumars did what he should  do to improve the team by taking a guy who was the best fit to help. And he did address the rotational 4-5 in the second round by taking a guy many expected to be gone before.

  • Jun 28, 20131:30 pm
    by Domnick

    Reply

    They wouldve taken mclemore if kings didnt drafted at 7…. But kcp over burke or mccollum is dissapointing

    • Jun 28, 20132:00 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      But nobody was expecting McLemore to be there at 8. I was hoping, but it was an extreme long shot.

  • Jun 28, 20131:35 pm
    by Mike

    Reply

    Michigan fan who loves Trey Burke, but he’s not worth this many words in a post like this. This was a bad draft, and most who covered or participated in the draft agreed that Burke was not one of the 4-5 best players in it.
     
    The funny thing is that last night, you wrote that you worry about players who rise after the season before “falling” a bit on draft night. You compared KCP to Brandon Knight in that way. In reality, Burke was Knight this year. He was the mid-first rounder who got the tourney bump. Burke being available at 8 was not some steal potentially for the Pistons, but simply him being available in a position that fit with his abilities. They went in another direction, and this direction is just fine. The angst about not taking Burke is getting stupid.
     

    • Jun 28, 20131:37 pm
      by Mike

      Reply

      Apologies, as I now see that you didn’t write that piece last night. I was wrong on that.

    • Jun 28, 20131:58 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “In reality, Burke was Knight this year.”

      Yes. Except more productive by every measure and a natural point guard, not a scoring guard masquerading as a one. But except for those things, he and Knight are totally the same situation.

      • Jun 28, 20132:06 pm
        by Mike

        Reply

        In terms of the context from last night as being the guy who was considered top 3-5 by some, and then “fell” into the back half of the top 10, Burke was Knight. I didn’t make the original comp. I’m just making the one your writer made more accurate. Don’t blame me.

        • Jun 28, 20132:36 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Nobody considered Knight a top 3-5 prospect. They just projected he might go that high because someone might reach for him. That is a big difference. Burke was often projected to fall a bit because there were several teams who had their PG situations all shored up.

      • Jun 28, 20136:42 pm
        by Mike

        Reply

        Patrick, do you think Joe Dumars visits this site?

    • Jun 28, 20132:03 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Actually, there were a lot of people who thought Burke was a top 4-5 player in the draft. And even among those who didn’t, it was nearly unanimous that he was a better prospect than Pope.

      And Burke is kinda the opposite of Knight. No name recognition and not at all recruited out of high school, he performed so well in college that he forced his name into everyone’s consciousness. Knight was a highly rated prospect who was a bit disappointing but was still a high prospect based purely on potential. 

      • Jun 28, 20132:15 pm
        by Mike

        Reply

        This was the part from last night I’m referring to:
        The Pistons go out of their way to tell everyone that Brandon Knight was a steal in the draft and that he ‘fell’ to them. In reality, Knight only ‘fell’ because he rose a bit too high in the pre-draft process. Knight was mostly considered a mid-first round pick early on in the 2011 draft season. But he used a great tournament performance, along with the fact that some big names like Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, John Henson and Perry Jones decided to stay an extra year in school, to shoot up into the top five in some early projections. So Knight didn’t really ‘fall’ as much as he came back to Earth and went closer to the range that was more realistic for him.
        Sound familiar to Burke? Late first rounder to start the year. Moves into the late lottery range by the end of the season. Team goes on a title run. A couple potential lottery guys go back to school. Suddenly, Burke is a potential #2 pick to Orlando. By the end of the draft, he’s considered by no one higher than 6 in the draft. I love the guy as a UM fan, but he’s simply not worth all these temper tantrums from this site or elsewhere.

        • Jun 28, 20132:40 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          “By the end of the draft, he’s considered by no one higher than 6 in the draft.”

          That’s just completely untrue. Lots of people would still have him in the top 5. 

          • Jun 28, 20132:44 pm
            by Mike

            Who? NO thought so highly of him that it traded a next year’s #1 + a player everyone in the draft thought was better than Burke to Philly for a PG who is going to cost $10+ million per year for the next 4 years, and who is probably a back half of the top 10 PG in the league. And that’s a team that was supposedly as high on Burke as anyone. Orlando badly needed a PG, and didn’t take him #2. Sacramento isn’t exactly killing it at PG, and they passed on him at 7. Detroit has a need there, and passed at 8. Who was picking Burke in the top 5?

          • Jun 28, 20133:22 pm
            by tarsier

            Obviously he wasn’t taken higher than 6 in the draft. That is a far cry from saying that nobody thinks he is a top 6 player in the draft. One thing worth realizing is that the GMs picking high are typically going to be the most incompetent GMs. That’s how the system works.

          • Jun 28, 20135:05 pm
            by G

            Agree with tarsier – NO’s move is a pretty typical one of a team that routinely makes bad moves. Might as well start basing out evaluations off of what Charlotte does.

  • Jun 28, 20131:35 pm
    by DoctorDave

    Reply

    And now for a dissenting opinion….
    First – JoeD, picking at #8, took a player that Dan F. had ranked at #7. So, good pick! (I wish he could have traded up one spot for McLemore and given up 1 or both second rounders to do it – but that’s another blog post).
    Second – He did say that KCP was the best available; he just didn’t say it as soon as some of you thought he should, nor in a way some think is credible. So – just saying it now isn’t enough.
    Third – PP “officially” put Burke in the top 2 or 3 of this draft, which is a stretch.
    Fourth – overall, while the order was a little weird (and accept for Zeller!), the top 10 picks pretty much went as expected.
    Fifth: if the Pistons had taken Burke, how much farther does anyone think KCP would have fallen? Really, guys, there is very little difference in Burke & KCP as far as draft value goes. One plays SG, and the other plays PG. Both are terribly needed. JoeD could only take one of them.
    Finally… JoeD still has a truck load of $$$ to spend on a FAPG. Patience, friends. Let’s see how he spends “our” money.

    • Jun 28, 20131:46 pm
      by Pistons87

      Reply

      This bears repeating and I couldn’t say it better myself:
      “Second – He did say that KCP was the best available; he just didn’t say it as soon as some of you thought he should, nor in a way some think is credible. So – just saying it now isn’t enough.”

      The post by Dan is based on either not actually reading what was said, purposefully taking information out of context, or assuming the quote was a lie?  I have no idea.

      • Jun 28, 20132:09 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        I’m assuming he watched/listened to the interview and missed that bit.

      • Jun 28, 20133:08 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        I think finally mentioning it at the end has a similar meaning.  The initial point about drafting for a needed wing was reiterated over and over so finally calling him the best prospect doesn’t really change much.  Joe looked like he was defending the pick against Burke for half the conference with the need argument…not the best player argument.  As a whole I doubt anyone who was paying attention thought Dumars felt he was definitely the best player, but I’m sure everyone could tell Dumars thought we needed that TYPE of player.

    • Jun 28, 20131:55 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Clearly Dan ranked Burke higher than #7. Probably assuming Noel and Len wouldn’t be good fits.

    • Jun 28, 20132:08 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Here’s the thing, I would be fine with ranking Burke as the 6th best prospect in the draft and Pope as the 7th (personally, I’d have them at 5 and 10). But that dropoff from 6 to 7 is HUGE!

      Burke is a much better prospect than Pope even if there aren’t a lot of intermediate prospects between them. It’s like the difference between having the 3rd and 4th best SGs in the league this past season. I don’t know which of Wade, Kobe, and Harden you’d put at 3 and I have no idea who you’d put at 4, but 3 and 4 are nowhere close to each other. 

  • Jun 28, 20131:36 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    great post and it captures my view totally.
    one thing is clear about pope…he will need someone to feed him the ball.
    he reminds me so much of rip hamilton.  i’d bet that joe probably feels the same way.
    with his weak handle, and his reliance on his jumper, he will be useless without a facilitator.
    and as of now, there is no one of that sort on the pistons’ roster.
    btw, i will look forward to seeing mccollum here in portland.  now that will be a treat.  i’ll just wish that he would have made it to the nba in a detroit pistons’ uniform. 

    • Jun 28, 20131:46 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      That’s probably true. He already tried to draft Big Ben Jr. (Maxiell), Billups Jr. (Stuckey), and Tayshaun Jr. (Daye). I guess he just longs for the old days… Hopefully this one pans out a little better.

    • Jun 28, 20132:07 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Pope’s actually really good as a pull up shooter, and kind of average at spot up shooting. The second part of that might have to do with the fact that Georgia couldn’t pass, but Pope did just score more than 18 points a game with zero passers on the roster.

    • Jun 28, 20132:09 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Exactly Frankie D.  KCP has a weak handle and no one on the entire roster can even safely bring the ball up the court other than Stuckey–and everyone wants to get rid of him.  

      • Jun 28, 20132:30 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        assuming calderone is not coming back, the roster goes back to being a mess.
        stuckey is the only guy who is a reliable ballhandler.
        knight is horrible.
        bynum pounds the heck out of the ball.  tay isn’t around anymore to take the pressure off of the guards.
        hard to imagine exactly who is going to facilitate KCPs shooting.
        yes, he was more of a pull up jump shooter in college, but he is going to need a ball handler in the nba.  
        again, i see him as very similar to rip hamilton.  we saw what happened with rip when he started getting creative and putting the ball on the floor.  i can see the same thing happening with pope if he starts to get away from being a guy who catches and shoots or takes a couple of dribbles and pulls up for a jumper.  a guy who uses his pull up jumper like pope still needs someone to get the ball in his hands on the wing so that he can make that move on his pull up jumper.
        the pistons have no one who can competently do that. 

  • Jun 28, 20131:38 pm
    by joe

    Reply

    Ok, lets get over not drafting Burke, Dumars is a lot smarter than what I thought. So first of all, who on this board brought Burke and KCP in for a work out? I feel Dumars made the best choice for the team and did a good job at hidden his choice so Timberwolves or no other team didn’t trade up. 

    • Jun 28, 20131:47 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      “So first of all, who on this board brought Burke and KCP in for a work out?”

      Hint: the number is the same as how many members of the Pistons’ front office brought them in for a workout. 

      • Jun 29, 20132:51 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        BURKE CAME IN. hE REFUSED TO WORKOUT.

    • Jun 28, 20131:47 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      They would’ve taken Oladipo or McLemore if they traded up, not KCP.

    • Jun 28, 20131:49 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Joe D didn’t work them KCP or Burke…does that mean he has as much credibility as the board?

    • Jun 28, 20131:49 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Joe D didn’t work out KCP or Burke…does that mean he has as much credibility as the board?

      • Jun 28, 20134:14 pm
        by G

        Reply

        I personally haven’t completely fucked over a championship franchise, so I think I have MORE credibility.

        • Jun 28, 20134:33 pm
          by scott

          Reply

          you also haven’t built a championship franchise

        • Jun 28, 20134:48 pm
          by Crispus

          Reply

          Meeow

        • Jun 28, 20134:59 pm
          by G

          Reply

          I should’ve put my <sarcasm marks> in there because I was being a little bit facetious…

  • Jun 28, 20131:45 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

     BURKE BURKE BURKE BURKE BURKE. Am I the only one who is willing to acknowledge how small burke is to go with his very slight build.

    • Jun 28, 20131:54 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      chris paul…steve nash…tony parker…mike conley…4 of the best point guards in the league.    there are probably others i’m not thinking of right now.  …ty lawson…all about the same size, or smaller than burke.  his size is demonstrably a non-issue.  if he doesn’t make it, it won’t be a result of his size.

      • Jun 28, 20132:01 pm
        by Dan Feldman

        Reply

        I wouldn’t go as far as to call his size a non-issue. It’s a negative. Burke’s size could very well cause problems.

        I just don’t think it’s that big a negative, and I think all his positives far outweigh the size concerns. 

        • Jun 28, 20132:32 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          agree.  i just don’t see it as the disqualifier that some of burke’s detractors believe it to be.
          it would be great if he was 6’5″ like MCW, but i don’t think his size is the kind of factor that will break his career.

        • Jun 29, 20133:10 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          First off , size is a factor. If you don’t think so all you have to do is look at nate robinson. He would be a superstar if he was 6’1″instead of what he is 5’9″.. Second When knight and walker came out size was what put the rating of knight over walker. knight at 6’1.5″, walker at 5’11″. Walker had just come off 2 very impressive seasons. The last leading Conn. to an NCAA championship.

          • Jul 1, 20138:10 am
            by G

            And now we see how stupid that move was. Walker looks like he’ll be a better player than Knight, and may end up being a decent PG while Knight looks like a combo guard & off the bench scorer.

      • Jun 28, 20132:04 pm
        by KaBa

        Reply

        First of all are you implying that Burke is a future All Star and Hall Of Famer? Really? I mean really really? Come on, all of the “experts” that had him going into draft before KCP neither one of them has said that he is any where nearly as good as those guys are. He still can prove us all wrong, but saying stuff like that before he has played even a single pro game is just ridicules. Pistons did not have the 1 pick and they did not choose to pass on the designated 1st pick Burke.

        • Jun 28, 20132:11 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          He’s gotten Mike Conley comparisons. He’s also often equated as roughly a Ty Lawson type of talent. Yeah, the first three are outside of what should be expected for him, but those 2 seem pretty realistic.

        • Jun 28, 20132:14 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Nobody is saying he is a future all-star and Hall of Famer. Just that his size, which is barely below average for his position, does not mean he can’t be.

          With all the willingness to write Burke off based on size alone, you’d think the greatest player in franchise history wasn’t an undersized PG.

          • Jun 28, 20132:33 pm
            by KaBa

            No one is saying it, but quite a lot are acting like he is. Just read the comments here and then you will understand what I mean. I’m still not saying that he wont be a good player but everyone should stop behaving like it’s written into stone that he will be that good. I just feel that all of you guys are not truly fair towards KCP, and acting like Knight is a total dud which he isn’t. These discussions here need seriously to cool down.

          • Jun 28, 20133:25 pm
            by tarsier

            I think what we are saying is that he could be a great player, not that he will be. KCP doesn’t look like a guy who has that potential.

      • Jun 28, 20132:09 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        Look at who your naming….  How could you even hope that Burke would end up being one of the very best point guards. He doesn’t have the athletic ability of the guys you mentioned   I compare his upside to Will Bynum who in my opinion is a pretty good player

        • Jun 28, 20132:14 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          He’s athletically similar to post injury Paul and to Conley. He’s also much bigger than Lawson. I don’t see him as a Chris Paul, Steve Nash, or Tony Parker. I do think that Lawson and Conley are possible though.

          • Jun 28, 20132:29 pm
            by Filo Putz

            By the way I like Lawson and Connelly, both good players but also are noted for being inconsistent. But hey you never know. I don’t see Burke being as good as either but I suppose it’s possible. I just don’t see them as Burke’s ceiling 

          • Jun 28, 20134:41 pm
            by Pistons87

            “He’s athletically similar to post injury Paul…”

            How do you even back that statement up?   As far as Conley goes I can see your point but Conley is the better athlete a 5/5″ differential vert different for two guys the same size is huge:
             
              Height (Shoes)  6-0 3/4, 6-1 1/4
              Weight 175,  187
              Wingspan 6-5 3/4,  6-5 1/2
              Standing Reach 7-10 1/2, 8-1 1/2   
              No Step Vert 35.5, 29.9 
              Max Vert 40.5, 36.5
              Lane 11.63, 11.2
              3/4 Sprint 3.09, 3.16   

                 

          • Jun 28, 20135:11 pm
            by G

            Except Burke’s quicker, taller, and has a taller reach. A difference of 0.43 sec on lane agility is a lot.

          • Jun 29, 20138:04 am
            by oats

            It’s partially based on how Paul looks, and partially that Burke had less ground to make up than people think. Paul’s lane agility was 11.09 compared to Burke’s 11.2. Burke actually had the better sprint time. Paul’s max vert was 38 inches versus Burke’s 36.5 inches. Since his injury Paul has lost a bit of a step, and he isn’t quite as explosive of a leaper. So Paul is stronger, but everything else seems pretty darn close to me which makes them comparable athletes. That’s especially true since strength is probably less important for the PG spot than any other position.

        • Jun 28, 20132:16 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Haha, I love this comment. You blast Frankie D’s comparison based on those guys being more athletic than Burke, then you compare him to … Will freaking Bynum? The guy who is one of the most athletic point guards in the league? Bynum is more athletic than Nash, Paul, Conley and Lawson. Hell, 98 percent of Bynum’s ability to stick in the league has been because he’s elite athletically.

          • Jun 28, 20132:36 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Your right. My mistake Will Bynum is better in the pick and roll. and better at getting baskets on his own than Burke I guess you’re right Burkes ceiling is below Bynum’s.

          • Jun 28, 20132:49 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Ha. You’re insane.

          • Jun 28, 20133:01 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Besides being a shorter pg. Hasn’t anyone else noticed how slightly he’s built. Look he was a great college point guard in a system that took full advantage of his ability. I just don’t think it will translate to a top ten guy at the next level. And the Pistons have so many needs. An upgrade to point guard is obviously needed if they ever hope to compete for a championship and it wouldn’t even necessarily have to be a top ten guy. But they have so many other needs right now. Conspicuous holes at the 2, the 3, rotational 4-5, first of the bench scorer, a lockdown defender. They’ve got alot to address. I see point guard as a definite need for upgrade but it’s just one facet of their many glaring needs.

          • Jun 30, 201310:33 pm
            by Filo Putz

            This comment is so idiotic I almost didn’t want to make the effort to respond. When I said I evaluated Burke’s upside as being Bynum you took that to mean I think his traits as a player were similar, If you had half a brain you would have realized I meant that Burke could potentially, as his upside, come in as a change of pace player off the bench! Obviously he doesn’t have the same physical attributes as Bynum–(personal attack removed)

        • Jun 28, 20132:18 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          You can compare his upside to Will Bynum if you like. But they are not even vaguely similar players and Burke is way, way better. So your comparison will just be stupid. But feel free to make it. Meanwhile, I might as well compare Wiggins’ upside to Leandro Barbosa.

          • Jun 28, 20132:36 pm
            by frankie d

            my point in bringing up all of those other players is simply that there are lots of successful – and some are very successful – PGs who are right around burke’s size.  i think you can rightfully criticize burke in some ways – his defense and athleticism is pretty lackluster, for instance – but his height seems like an extremely weak issue to focus on.

          • Jun 28, 20134:22 pm
            by G

            @ frankie d – People are crazy, homey. You can hardly try to make a point without some asshole taking it the wrong way or extrapolating whatever you said to the farthest extreme. And the hilarious part is when they back up their position by saying some mindless crazy shit that makes you wonder if what they’re actually doing is watching bull riding & think its basketball.

            If you’ve noticed I’m cursing a lot more, blame this fucking draft. Grrrr. 

          • Jun 28, 20135:07 pm
            by frankie d

            @ g
            i feel the same way.
            btw, be sure to wire that fake grand to frankiedsfakebankaccount@gmail.com.
            i will enjoy every cent.
            actually, it will be nice to see schroeder play down in atlanta, as it looks like they are making some very positive moves.  
            a pick and roll with schroeder and muscala, in the second unit, should be pretty nice.  
            i might become a closet hawks fan.
            it is going to be hard to avoid rooting  even more for the blazers though.  very nice that mccollum landed here.  sort of like when brandon roy was here.  while i was always a pistons’ fan, i just loved watching roy play.  i get the feeling i’ll think about mccollum in the same way.

          • Jun 28, 20135:12 pm
            by G

            Don’t spend it all in one place. It was a stupid fake bet for me to make, given all the changes that happened right up to the draft.

  • Jun 28, 20131:46 pm
    by pollack419

    Reply

    Our team is better with knight and Pope backcourt, and I love Burke. but with pope and knight it’s a Great defensive back court that both can shoot and rebound. Pope was one of the fastest in the draft, good 3pt shooter w a quick release. Need shooters to spread the floor w the twin towers. Knight is to young not to give another year on but I bet w go PG in FA in Trade. Image if we sign Jarret Jack and Iggy

  • Jun 28, 20131:46 pm
    by labatts

    Reply

    That’s it, I’ll never read this site again!

    Anyway, what is frustrating is that I feel like I fave to root against Burke now, and I don’t want to do that.  

    I do wonder, though, how much drafting Mateen Cleaves played a role in this draft.  As with the darko pick, I think Dumars’ past mistakes are impacting his cirrent decisions so that he is leary to draft local talent or Euro-talent (i don’t count 2nd rounders). Perhaps I am off base, but that iswhat I see.

    • Jun 28, 20132:02 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I think there’s some merit to that. He took Cleaves while he was new to the job, and there was insane pressure on him to make that pick. Some of his comments last night made it seem like he’s still stinging from that experience, and he wasn’t going to bow to public pressure again, even if it’s a totally different situation because of Burke’s skill level compared to Cleaves’. Should’ve just drafted Mo Pete that year.

      • Jun 28, 20132:22 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Cleaves wasn’t even that bad of a pick. The entire 2000 draft was worthless.

        Holding that pick against Dumars would be like holding it against a player when he misses a three quarter court buzzer beater. 

        • Jun 28, 20132:30 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Not saying he was or that I hold it against Dumars. But I do think Dumars’ defensiveness about Burke and ‘not wanting to win public opinion polls’ might have something to do with the pressure on him to take Cleaves, and then the criticism after Cleaves was a bust.

          • Jun 28, 20138:11 pm
            by Matt

            Sorry I’m only 20, who the hell is Mateen Cleaves? Wouldn’t the drafting of Knight make more sense as to why we passed on Burke than a pick from… 2000? That’s reaching. It has been a pattern in the organization to NEVER give up on players. Knight, Stuckey, Charlie V, we’re not exactly quick at figuring out if a players good or not. Calderone was for money not to take Knight’s place. A lot of the time we had Calderone playing off the ball, which was so many levels of stupid. I don’t watch college sports so I didn’t care if we got Burke or not. I only watched the March madness stuff and he didn’t do all that well. I’m just happy our pick a tweener that never finds a position.

        • Jun 28, 20134:46 pm
          by labatts

          Reply

          Tarsier, I am not holding the Cleaves pick against Dumars.  That is not what I am saying at all.  heck, I don’t even necessarily think he got THIS draft wrong.  Really, what can we do but wait and see? 

      • Jun 28, 20133:35 pm
        by gtg2013

        Reply

        What was the problem with the Cleaves pick? That Dumars didn’t predict he would get cancer? Because we really don’t know how Cleaves would have turned out otherwise.
         
        Sorry, I’ll try not to defend Dumars too much in the future, he doesn’t really deserve it. But beating up on him over the Cleaves pick–yuck.

        • Jun 28, 20133:38 pm
          by gtg2013

          Reply

          Oh hell wrong guy and I hit ‘send’ by mistake. Damn feeling dumb…

        • Jun 28, 20133:42 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Wait, what? I think you might need to have a very important discussion with Mateen Cleaves.

        • Jun 28, 20134:56 pm
          by G

          Reply

          When did Cleaves get cancer? I never heard about that.

      • Jun 28, 20133:47 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        What a stupid comment! Cleaves went 14 and Mo Pete didn’t get taken till 30th. Cleaves was taken where he was supposed to go. No one could’ve predicted he would be a bust. He was one of the best point guards to ever lead his team to an NCAA championship. The next 15 teams past on Peterson. You could say what you said about each of them.

        • Jun 28, 20135:10 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          i don’t know.  i always thought, and lots of folks thought at the time – so it is not hindsight – that mo pete was clearly the best pro prospect on that team.
          i was shocked when joe took cleaves.  he always seemed like a very good college guard whose game simply did not translate to the nba.  not too much of a market for non-shooting, relatively slowfooted, smaller, power point guards, no matter how great a leader they might be.

          • Jun 28, 20135:24 pm
            by Filo Putz

            He was the size of a 2 but played the 3 in college and never he put the ball on the floor. Why do you think he lasted till the 30th pick?

          • Jun 28, 20136:00 pm
            by frankie d

            unhhh…he was 6’7′.
            and he could shoot.
            always a place in the league for shooters who don’t fiddle around with the ball.
            he was a 3 and d guy – with not too much d – before they were popular.
            btw, he was drafted number 21. 

        • Jun 28, 20136:35 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          Your right and wrong he is 6’5″. Don’t go by the pres guide. And you’re right he was a great shooter. But the knock on him even though he had some phenomenal scoring nights at State especially in the tournament. was he never did anything and i mean anything off the dribble. Of course with cleaves drawing so much attention he didn’t have to really work to get shots. It wasn’t until he got to toronto that he developed some basic moves to get his shot off. Mostly of the one or 2 dribble variety.

          • Jun 28, 20136:45 pm
            by Filo Putz

            The right part was he was picked at 21. my memory was 30th. So including the pistons 7 teams past on him.

          • Jun 28, 20137:19 pm
            by frankie d

            frankly, he kind of reminds me of shabazz.  a skinnier shabazz.  
            with a better shot. 

          • Jun 28, 20138:18 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Mo Pete played nothing at all like Muhammad. In fact their skills set are opposite. Muhammad is a bull around the basket, Peterson was a knock down perimeter shooter who rarely and I mean rarely went to the basket although later in his career he might occasionally try and get to the rim when no one was expecting it. 

  • Jun 28, 20131:46 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

     BURKE BURKE BURKE BURKE BURKE. Am I the only one who is willing to acknowledge how small burke is to go with his very slight build?

    • Jun 28, 20131:58 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      My upside comparison for Burke is Will Bynum who in my opinion is a good player. I like Bynum and think they should reign him

    • Jun 28, 20132:15 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Some of the very best point guards of all time had similar builds.  Thanks god the Pistons didn’t pass on Isiah Thomas out of fears that he was too small and slight.  

  • Jun 28, 20131:47 pm
    by pollack419

    Reply

    Dumars would be the man on the all the boards if Ben Mac fell one more spot. Damn Lotto

    • Jun 28, 20131:49 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Too true.

    • Jun 28, 20132:29 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      well if McLemore fell (and assuming Dumars took him), he’d get much the same reaction as with Monroe and Drummond. We’d be pleased Dumars snapped up the guy who fell, and we’d be elated that the guy fell.

      • Jun 28, 20134:31 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Here’s another thing – Detroit should’ve been picking ahead of Sacramento, except Dumars refuses to do anything that RESEMBLES tanking. I’m making myself more angry the more I examine this.

        • Jun 28, 20135:30 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          This is the very first thing that I have read by you that I agree with. If you’re going to be in the lottery then what could possibly be the advantage of finishing at the bottom of it?

          • Jun 28, 20138:24 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Didn’t they win 4 of their last 5 to go from 5th in lottery to 7th. and then Of  course with the bad luck curse worthy of the Lions they go from 7th to 8th. losing out on Mclemore, The guy who really slid (sorry to all you Burke lovers).

        • Jun 28, 20139:56 pm
          by Chris N

          Reply

          “Detroit should’ve been picking ahead of Sacramento, except Dumars refuses to do anything that RESEMBLES tanking.”

          I don’t get this.  The second worst team in the league tanked and only got the fourth pick in the draft.  They were the ultimate tankers and could only get the fourth best pick.  The team that did the best job at tanking got the second pick. Meanwhile, a team with an identical record to Detroit gets the third pick.

          So you’re upset because the Pistons didn’t purposely lose games and wound up with the eighth pick in an draft short on franchise defining talent?

          Why? 

          • Jun 28, 201310:39 pm
            by Max

            Because one pick lower and the Pistons would have gotten a ROY type and the player with the highest ceiling as a franchise changing superstar.   It was just the weirdest draft.    

          • Jun 29, 20131:00 am
            by Filo Putz

            I was actually holding out hope that Zeller  who went 4th fell to the Pistons. Unfortunately he tested too well at the combine and his stock rose. In my opinion  the pistons as they were configured last year with the exception of Zeller replacing Maxiell would have proved to be a marked improved team. The talent level on my board was the same as the first 7 picks, just not the same order. My  pre-draft evaluation was  a serious drop in probability for real contributors after the top 7. So to answer your question if the Pistons  had not won 4 out of their last 5 games they would have picked either 5th or 6th and drafted Mclemore, the player that I consider has the best chance to be an all star. There is a long and inglorious history even post lottery of teams tanking to increase their odds of getting a better player. This isn’t football or baseball one player can make a huge difference in your fortune.

          • Jul 1, 20138:06 am
            by G

            The Pistons seem to go out of their way to win meaningless games at the end of the season, hurting draft position. Why? Why not shut down an injured guy and get the 6th pick in the draft instead of the 9th? It’s not like I’m advocating telling the players not to try, but they probably should’ve shut down Knight & Drummond when they were injured instead of working extra hard to bring them back. A couple more losses and Detroit ends up with McLemore instead of KCP.

  • Jun 28, 20131:47 pm
    by Super Pooper

    Reply

    Everyone seems to assume that Burke will actually hit in the NBA.  There are definite questions about this abilities at this level.  

    • Jun 28, 20131:51 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Stop with that. Folks just think Burke was a better bet. Defend KCP over him or wait until the season plays out.

    • Jun 28, 20132:21 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      I think Shaq, Kareem and Duncan are the only players that ever came with no questions.   I’m old enough to remember people saying Michael Jordan couldn’t shoot or play defense.    The point is that you should have the balls to predict Burke is going to bad or worse than KCP rather than just saying he is not a sure thing.  Dan is right to say that the ultimate judgement on this pick will be determined by who proves to be a better player between Burke and KCP.   Maybe KCP will surprise me like Joe did when he picked him but I do believe Burke will be somewhere between a borderline all star to an elite point guard and that KCP won’t be better than an average starter.        

      • Jun 29, 20138:47 am
        by KaBa

        Reply

        Dan has made his judgement. The sentence with the ultimate judgement is just a smokebomb from him so that he can pretend of being neutral on this topic when he actualy isn’t. The only way this can turn out positive is if KCP scores around 20 ppg and Burke comes out as a total bust. I just want to say this because there a lot of “fans” here that unreasonable and totaly unfair to KCP before he has even played one single game. By the way comparing them with each other will never work as they play on different positions. Or would you compare Nash with Kobe?

        • Jun 29, 20132:18 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Sure, I can compare Nash and Kobe.   Kobe is much much better.  He was always much much better.   Even the two years Nash won his MVPS, Kobe was much much better.  I can compare them but there is no comparison.   Kobe is and was head and shoulders superior to Nash.   Done.  

          • Jun 29, 201311:06 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Ya your right but doesn’t’ Nash play pint guard, the more important position. LOL!!!!!!!

  • Jun 28, 20131:49 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    “The last time Joe Dumars identified an NBA trend it was stretch fours, and that got Charlie Villanuevathe huge contract that’s still saddling Detroit.”
    when i heard dumars talk about drafting KCP and needing wings, i immediately thought of CV and BG and an interview he gave langlois before he signed them, where he talked how the game had changed and how you needed stretch 4′s.  
    seems like deja vu all over again.
     

    • Jun 28, 20132:26 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Me too.  Following trends is a big mistake.  The Heat just had the biggest anomaly of a championship of all time .  No other team that ever won even remotely resembles them or how they play.   Teams should play to their own strengths and forge their own identities.  

    • Jun 28, 20133:18 pm
      by Crispus

      Reply

      Having athletic players who can shoot the ball is hardly a trend. He didn’t draft a dribbling point-center or a guy who shoots underhand or something here.

      Their play style may have been different, but in terms of personnel the Heat look like the old Bulls with…
      a – the best player in the league – Lebron (Jordan)
      b – his sidekick, who is a star in his own right – Wade (Pippen)
      c – everybody else, including specialists and role players 

      • Jun 28, 20133:44 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        The Bulls had a traditional center, didn’t play small ball and weren’t last in the league in rebounding but rather a great rebounding team.  

      • Jun 28, 20133:48 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        And further, the Heat didn’t exactly run the triangle so you can stop with suggesting much of a similarity between in the two teams in terms of style.  

      • Jun 28, 20134:27 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        The issue is less that athleticism and shooting from the wing is a trend and more that he should just be looking for the best players possible. Athleticism and shooting certainly factor into that. but so do other things. Why only focus on those?

        It would be like a fantasy drafter who has lots of assists and 3s already on his team but not enough shot blocking. So he passes on a clearly superior player who excels at assists and 3s for a shot blocker. I play against a few guys like that every year and eat them for breakfast.

        • Jun 28, 20134:49 pm
          by Pistons87

          Reply

          This is kind of funny. Athleticism and shooting from the wing is certainly NOT some recent trend.  Has anyone watched the NBA the last 30 years!  This discussion is ridiculous.

          • Jun 28, 20135:16 pm
            by frankie d

            no, it is not a trend, but the way dumars discussed it last night made it appear to be a trend he was chasing.  (over 20 years ago, pat riley used to talk about having a team with 5 guys, all around 6’8″.  he almost had that with the old showtime lakers, so no, the idea of a team full of athletic wing players on the floor is certainly not a new one.)  joe talked specifically about the need in today’s game for that type of player.  
            it is somewhat similar, with different specifics, to the rap he’s been giving for the last 5 , 6 years.  instead of combo guards or stretch 4′s he’s now talking about athletic wings. 
            if i was him, i’d be more interested in simply building a team around the guys i have instead of trying to fit what appears to be the league’s latest fashion. 

          • Jun 29, 20133:19 pm
            by Filo Putz

            The guys you see with the most comments on this board quote statistics and analytics but know nothing about basketball and how it’s played.

        • Jun 28, 201310:52 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Exactly.   The Pistons should be built around their young bigs who need someone to get them the ball in good position.  

      • Jun 28, 20135:02 pm
        by Crispus

        Reply

        Well that’s what happens when you are on the hot seat and drafting for need!

        I didn’t say the play styles were similar, just personnel.

        It’s hard to forge an identity in the NBA right now. Most of the best players will quickly leave for a bigger paycheck or more glamorous city. Continuity is difficult with high expectations for coaches and GMs. That’s why the Pistons were such an odd duck – consistently going deep into the playoffs without a superstar or cornerstone franchise guy. The Spurs have continuity, and they are great, but it’s much harder to find that kind of core than it looks.

  • Jun 28, 20131:56 pm
    by KaBa

    Reply

    So Dan what would you say, what is the easier task: to teach KCP to utilise his athleticism all the time at the defense so he can become a defensive powerhouse, because this guy knows how to defend but isn’t always 100% attentive, on the other side you have Burke who needs somehow to get more athletic. If you look at Earl Watson and I think on the athletic side they can be compared it is possible to compete in the NBA but just not at such a high level as you are constantly anticpating. So he is going to make a few more points then Earl and maybe be able to dish a few more assits but for me personally it all ends there. You cannot make everything up with your feeling for the game. And you know what, Burke first of has to show that he is a better player then Knight at the pro level. Knight isn’t that bad like everyone here wants him to be.

    • Jun 28, 20132:26 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Earl Watson is not a terrible comparison athletically, but Burke is both a much more productive college player and younger than Watson was when he entered the league. Projections for Burke should be much more favorable than Earl Watson because he’s just a better player.
       
      As for Knight, no one wants him to be bad. He is a bad point guard, but everyone here wants him to be good. Recognizing that Knight is bad is not the same as wanting him to be bad.

  • Jun 28, 20132:00 pm
    by Sam

    Reply

    This pick makes sense if the Pistons are trying to give Brandon Knight more time to develop into a PG.
    Personally, I think that’s a good idea, since Brandon Knight is 22 years old.
    If the Pistons had drafted Burke, they would not be able to start Knight alongside him, since that backcourt would get torn up on defense. Knight would have been consigned to the bench too quickly in his young, still-developing career.
     

  • Jun 28, 20132:01 pm
    by Sam

    Reply

    This pick makes sense if the Pistons are trying to give Brandon Knight more time to develop into a PG.
    I think that’s a good idea since Brandon Knight is 22 years old.
    If the Pistons had drafted Burke, they wouldn’t be able to start Knight alongside him, since that backcourt would get totally torn up on defense. Knight would have been consigned to the bench much too quickly in his young, still-developing career.
     

  • Jun 28, 20132:02 pm
    by GM

    Reply

    This site has gone from being objective to straight up negative.  I think it’s a mistake to speak for the fan base when you are just one part of it- I, as a Pistons fan, am not going to measure KCP against Burke, and I DID want them to pick Burke.  Also, as a Pistons fan, I am not mad at Dumars that he made the pick.  It’s his job, not mine, and I think he was doing what he thought was right.   
    This article is written based on one move- the draft.  There are many more moves to come before the season starts, so I’m not sure why you would be SO negative already.  What if they trade for a point guard?  What if they sign Jarret Jack?  What if they also turn around and sign Igoudula or trade for MKG from the Bobcats (just as an example)?  This is just part of the puzzle, and much like the coaching hire, I think it’s crazy to be so angry.  

    • Jun 28, 20132:07 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Haha, yes! I was waiting for the first of these irrational ‘you guys are such haters!’ comments on what is actually a very objective post. Thanks for not disappointing.

      “This article is written based on one move- the draft.  There are many more moves to come before the season starts, so I’m not sure why you would be SO negative already.”

      Yeah, Dan should’ve totally factored in all of the hypothetical moves that haven’t happened yet into his analysis of a draft pick.

      ” What if they trade for a point guard?  What if they sign Jarret Jack?  What if they also turn around and sign Igoudula or trade for MKG from the Bobcats (just as an example)?  “

      What if they sign Chris Paul and Dwight Howard and win a championship? Then Dan will look really stupid for arguing that passing on Burke may have been a mistake!

       

      • Jun 30, 201310:55 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        Again another idiotic statement. You have got to be the dumbest basketball commentator I have ever read. And being up in Flint around all those great players in the community. You don’t think it makes sense to combine thinking of the draft and what position the team is in to sign free agents. THEY ONLY HAVE ONE POINT GUARD ON THE ROSTER. THEY ARE GOING TO ACQUIRE ANOTHER POINT. So Dumars should just forget the Cap space and who’s available through free agency and trade and just take Burke who more than likely at least initially, would be Knight’s backup..

    • Jun 28, 20132:08 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Also, I don’t want to speak for Dan, but I know I personally have tried very hard to never be objective.

      • Jun 28, 20132:33 pm
        by Tyrell

        Reply

        Yet here the majority of PP is whining about JoeD passing on Trey Burke because hypothetically he’s gonna be a near AS guard. Their backcourt sucks either guy would’ve worked. clearly they feel can get a PG via trade/FA

        • Jun 28, 20132:43 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          I wouldn’t say that anyone is whining too much. Dan and I were both up front about our preference for Burke, but I think both of our posts on the topic were pretty balanced. Neither of us called Caldwell-Pope a bad pick.

          And as for the comments, there are certainly commenters who preferred Burke too. But again, I haven’t seen anyone who is too over the top about it.

          This notion that GM expressed above that dialogue and questioning moves = negativity is really weak. I think people read us precisely because we’re the only Pistons outlet that doesn’t toe the party line on every topic. Questioning is fine, and we’ve certainly questioned things on a lot harder in the past than we’re questioning the Pope pick. I know I would admit, and I think Dan would too, that we could end up looking stupid in two or three years for preferring Burke. But a lot of people seem to have a hard time admitting that the opposite is true too. There’s a good chance Dumars made the wrong call here, and it’s absolutely OK to write that and discuss it.

          • Jun 28, 20132:57 pm
            by Tyrell

            We can disagree on the amount of Burke hard-ons/KCP haters but really my main point is I’d rather take my chances with KCP and a good proven PG than Burke and Knight or any of these SG FA

          • Jun 28, 20133:04 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            If their plan is to bring back Calderon or someone better at PG, I’m totally fine with the Pope pick, as I wrote earlier. If the plan is to let Knight anywhere near the PG position again, then it was the wrong pick. I’d rather have Burke at PG and find a SG than have Knight anywhere near the PG spot again.

          • Jun 28, 20133:34 pm
            by tarsier

            I like Calderon, but he is not a good enough player, or a young enough one, to be considered part of the future core. Therefore, his presence really should not be influencing decisions like who to draft.

            Also, choosing Pope over Burke because of Calderon would be the epitome of drafting for need instead of best player available. And that’s just a bad idea, at least in my opinion.

          • Jun 29, 20138:54 am
            by KaBa

            I like this, as soon as a Guy get’s 30 he’s not on his way to retirement he’s going straight to the retirement home. There are no indication that Calderon cant stay healthy and play on the same level for 4-5 years. He has always relied more on his smarts rather then athleticism, so this is also not going to change his game. The best part of his game, is what we need the most, run a offense without much drama and find the sweet spots for the bigs.

    • Jun 28, 20132:10 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      This is what happens when for five years you have fat garbage contracts, consistently unmet expectations, a locker room mutiny, no movement for 2 years (RIP Mr. D), lingering free agency for a potential franchise cornerstone (Monroe)… all against the backdrop of 7 straight trips to the ECF.
       
      Any fan base is gonna get testy in that environment. I’m falling into it myself. Hopefully Joe’s right and it turns around very quickly.

    • Jun 28, 20132:13 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      But it’s a long offseason, and with $20 million-plus in cap room looming, it’s way to early make any roster prognostications.

      It’s unclear whether Dumars’ emphasis on a wing means he still views Brandon Knight primarily as a point guard or whether the Pistons will target a point guard in free agency.”

      • Jun 28, 20135:13 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        My draft board had MCW and Burke 8-9 or 9-8. Pluses and negatives to both. The top 7 on my draft board were taken before the Pistons picked at 8. My view was and still is,  that there is a drop off in expectation for meaningful contributions from any pick after the first 7. The Pistons could have taken Burke or MCW then addressed their serious holes at the 2 and or 3 in free agency. I don’t view Burke and MCW as leaps and bounds an upgrade to Knight. But who knows.  They both do address a need. and 8 is where I had one of the two slotted. I would have taken one of them (BPA). All that being said my opinion still stands that  addressing one of the scoring positions was the area of most need. You could make the argument for taking one of the 2 pgs I had slotted at 8 and 9 on my board and then spending on JR of OJ. or you can make the choice Dumars did and roll the dice on Pope and living with the bird in the hand at pg. Both the pg and sg positions need to be improved but the  guy who can get baskets on his own is the highest priority for this team. Maybe Pope will fill the role. If Pope does pan out it will help whoever ends up playing the point by taking a lot of the pressure off of him. Last season  the point guard had too much and unrealistic responsibility.  A scorer capable of drawing enough attention to alter defenses should open up opportunities for the point guard whoever it ends up being, whereas the how the team was configured last season  the 2 and the 3 weren’t capable of doing that.

        • Jun 28, 201310:55 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          That’s a good point about the Pistons point guards being hurt in recent years by not having outside shooters.       
          Knight has trouble getting the ball up the court though.    

          • Jun 29, 20133:28 pm
            by Filo Putz

            you make a valid point. Knight is very dedicated and hardworking in the offseason. From what i’ve heard he emphasises ball handling in his workouts, Yet,he still dribbles to high making himself vulnerable to pressure and slowing his ability to react to what’s happening in front of him.

      • Jun 29, 20133:33 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        C’mon. Of course they need to sign another pg. They only have 2 capable of playing the position and you have to have three. Pope isn’t a candidate to fill that roll. I’m excited to see who they end up with. I’m betting on Devin Harris.

  • Jun 28, 20132:10 pm
    by koz

    Reply

    would dumars have drafted mccallum if was available at the second pick?

    • Jun 28, 20134:39 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Magic 8 ball says “Concentrate and ask again”

  • Jun 28, 20132:39 pm
    by Jay

    Reply

    Honestly I still haven’t given up on Knight. For the last two years he’s just seemed uncomfortable, not really knowing what the offense needs of him. Remember how he was passing the ball in the start of the season, and then became a shoot first PG? That just shows that he doesn’t know his role. 

    I think Cheeks is a much better coach, in terms of letting players know what he wants and accountability, that will help BK7 know his position. Even now Knight is capable of giving 15-16 ppg/ 5 or 6 apg with some solid defense. As long as he knows the offense and starts to understand the NBA game, he’ll be just fine. The turnovers will go away soon as he learns the position. I honestly think so. 

    If that happens, I think KCP will be a solid pick. He seems more like a Klay Thompson, or a more athletic Rip Hamilton type of two guard. I think KCP is actually capable of providing us maybe 16 or 17ppg with maybe 5 or 6 rpg in a couple years. 

    I think by taking Burke, we would’ve taken a step back in terms of rebuilding. People keep talking about all the oops we could’ve seen with him and Drummond. But I doubt that would’ve happened. If you guys saw the games last night, our paint was always clogged up because Knight was the only real threat from 3 point. Stuckey couldn’t do anything but drive. And thats where Drummond/Maxiel/Monroe were always camped. It helped the defense. That’s probably why our offense was sooo efficient. Let’s say we draft Burke. We’re still clogged inside, and our defense suffers again. 

    With KCP and Knight running the guards, our floor will be much spread out for Monroe and Drummond to comfortably do work inside, Knight to drive occasionally, and even the ally oops will come through for all you casual fans. Watch our offense next year, it’s going to be much smoother eventually. KCP and Knight are also long, athletic guards. They’re capable of playing some solid defense..or at least good enough for Drummond to clean it up later haha. Get some weight on those two guards and i think we can have a great team for some time to come. We just need to get a decent small forward soon (or maybe Tony Mitchell) and I think we could have our starting line up set to make a run. 

    I was just as stunned as you all when I didn’t hear Trey Burke’s name for Detroit, but I think Joe Dumars just might be right about this. It seems like the best plan for the team in the long run. But honestly, that’s up to Knight…who i think is about to break out with Cheeks guiding him. I’m excited about the pick.

    Let’s see what we do with Free Agency. 

     

  • Jun 28, 20132:47 pm
    by John V

    Reply

    Boo Freaking Hoo!!!

    • Jun 28, 20132:56 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Thanks for adding such intelligent and valuable discourse.

      • Jun 28, 20134:55 pm
        by John V

        Reply

        I am out to inform the masses of my displeasure of the constant and vexatious whining that is directed squarely at Mr. Dumars, who clearly had reservations, as did the other top 7 draft pick, on  selecting a player of fleeting stature with skills that may or may not assimilate to the NBA.

        Basically he went low risk because it is his job on the line, not anyone else’s.  

        • Jun 28, 20135:14 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Except by that rationale, Burke was the lower risk pick.

      • Jun 30, 201310:59 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        I’m still waiting for you to do the same!

  • Jun 28, 20132:49 pm
    by brgulker

    Reply

    As a Michigan fan, I wanted Burke badly. I have loved cheering for the kid. He’s a very good player, he’s humble, and he’s a good dude. I’ve invested a lot of emotion in his two-year career. Obviously, it would have been a nice story.

    But on paper, KCP is certainly an equal prospect to Burke, if not slightly better. He’s got a better NBA body, better measurables, and while it’s somewhat difficult to compare PGs and SGs statistically, KCP put up a really nice stat line. 

    I do think that if you read all of the pre-draft stuff Langlois was writing, it’s pretty clear the Pistons weren’t nearly as high on Burke as other people, and while I may not share that assessment, I’m not going to crucify Joe (this year) for taking an equally viable prospect at a position of great need.

    And let’s remember… it’s entirely possible that Joe has a handshake deal in place to lock up Calderon, who at this moment in time, is a better NBA PG than Burke.  

    • Jun 28, 20133:00 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “And let’s remember… it’s entirely possible that Joe has a handshake deal in place to lock up Calderon, who at this moment in time, is a better NBA PG than Burke.”

      For me, this pick is entirely dependent on the scenario you just mentioned. If Dumars signs Calderon (or acquires someone better) to play point guard next season, I’m 100 percent on board with taking Pope.

      If his plan is to give Knight another crack at the PG spot, then I think this pick is a failure. When Burke fell, the Pistons had the flexibility to fix the point guard spot so Knight and Stuckey never have to touch it again except possibly in a reserve role. Passing on Burke took away one avenue to fix that. They still have other options with cap room to sign or trade for someone to play that position. But if taking Pope means more of Knight at point guard, I’m absolutely OK with reserving the right to crucify Dumars down the road.

      • Jun 28, 20133:35 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        “And let’s remember… it’s entirely possible that Joe has a handshake deal in place to lock up Calderon, who at this moment in time, is a better NBA PG than Burke.”
        For me, this pick is entirely dependent on the scenario you just mentioned. If Dumars signs Calderon (or acquires someone better) to play point guard next season, I’m 100 percent on board with taking Pope.

         So are you in favor of drafting for need over taking the best player then?

        • Jun 28, 20133:43 pm
          by James

          Reply

          I was just about to post the exact same thing. 

        • Jun 28, 20133:49 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          OK, I should’ve used better word choice there. I’m still a proponent of best available, and I do think Burke was best available. So yeah, I don’t like the pick and never will on those grounds, though I freely admit I could be wrong on that. I fully see the merit in Pope, but I agree with your point above — I don’t think he has ‘star’ upside and I think Burke might.

          But I can feel better about the Pope pick if there’s a plan in place at PG that involves Calderon returning or adding someone better than him at the PG spot. If the plan is giving Knight another crack at PG, then I think this pick will look like a major failure down the road.

      • Jun 30, 201311:05 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        I’m giving up on you. Why don’t you start to add something valuable to the discourse by investigating reasonable player acquisition scenarios that could play out and justifying them in context to availability and salary consequences otherwise there is nothing you contribute worth reading.

  • Jun 28, 20132:59 pm
    by GEORGIO

    Reply

    I said all this week that Burke would drop and he did and that Joe would not draft him, which he didn’t. It wasn’t really rocket science, Burke I don’t think was a good fit and the Pistons need for length and athleticism and shooting precluded Burke being drafted.

    • Jun 28, 20133:01 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      The Pistons also need a point guard. Burke was one option to get one. It’s fine that they didn’t take him, but they still need a viable point guard. There isn’t one on the roster, unless you’re a huge Peyton Siva fan.

      • Jun 28, 20134:35 pm
        by GEORGIO

        Reply

        Actually I’m a big Knight fan and I think he needs more time, especially under Cheeks guidance, to grasp the position. The more immediate need of a SG has now been filled. There are plenty of PGs to be had if Knight fails, but let’s see what Cheeks can do first.

        • Jun 28, 20134:44 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Ugh. I’m not holding my breath.

          Knight can’t pass. Say what you want about “learning the offense”, there are several skills that a PG needs whether he knows the offense or not, and Knight doesn’t have them.

  • Jun 28, 20133:07 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    The love for Burke seems excessive.

    He is a good ball-handler, shooter, passer, and floor leader. All very good.  He’s also small and lacking in athleticism. He could turn out good, or he could be a bust (admittedly unlikely) or somewhere in between. 

    KCP is very athletic, has good size for a SG, is a great rebounder, a very good defender, and a good shooter.  After all the angst about combo guards over the years, I’d have expected much more enthusiasm for a pick who is very clearly a shooting guard, is clearly a high end talent (at least for this draft), and brings several things the team badly needs.  KCP seems to me to have a much higher ceiling than Burke, who is physically and athletically limited.  This doesn’t guarantee that KCP will be better, but he well could be. 

    Now on to the part where I agree: I am very curious to see what will follow, as far as roster moves.  It would be wonderful to see Stuckey off the roster this next year, and drafting KCP makes that much more tenable. 

    Lastly: Needing athletic wings who can shoot isn’t a “trend” in today’s NBA. It’s just a fact, especially for a team building around two big men down low.  Memphis got a long way without one - but probably would have been a finals team if they’d had even one.  This team needs to put three perimeter players who can shoot the 3 on the floor with Monroe and Drummond. So, if you assume you need to put a 3 pt shooter in at SG, would you rather have one who is tall, athletic, fast, can score off the dribble, and is good at rebounding and defense, or… not?

  • Jun 28, 20133:08 pm
    by brgulker

    Reply

    For whatever reason, I can’t reply to PH directly… so new comment thread:

    <i>But if taking Pope means more of Knight at point guard, I’m absolutely OK with reserving the right to crucify Dumars down the road.</i>

    I agree here, insofar as if the plan is either Knight or Stuckey, Dumars is off track. That said, given what Dumars has done in the last 6 months, I’m willing to give him until the trade deadline to get a competent PG (he might not have that long, who knows?).

    As I see it, if you roll into this season with Trey Burke at PG and don’t do anything to shore up the long-term SG position, you’ve got the same problem but at a different position (SG instead of PG).

    In other words, if it were just Burke or just KCP, neither of those picks are enough in isolation to get to the Playoffs.

    The team had pressing, long-term needs at the 1, 2, and 3 going into the offseason. Joe just took a good step to shore up the 2. He’s got a competitive advantage when it comes to Calderon at the 1 (namely, money), and he has competent SFs if not long-term options in Singler, Jerebko, and Middleton.

    If he’d drafted Burke, it would seem odd to pursue Calderon, so you’d be rolling with:

    Burke/?
    Knight/Stuckey
    Singler/JJ/Middleton

    If Calderon works out (or maybe even Bledsoe if rumors are to be believed, and know knows, maybe Boston wants to give up Rondo for youth, picks, and expirings), option A is a more viable playoff team than option B, IMHO.  

    • Jun 28, 20133:17 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Incidentally, Dery just responded to someone on Twitter and said he doesn’t think Calderon is in the Pistons plans, so there’s that, for whatever it’s worth.

      If they bring in someone better at PG, like Rondo or Bledsoe, as you mention, OK. But I think there’s indications, especially based on the praise for them Cheeks had in his intro press conference, that the team still feels like it has something in Knight and Stuckey. And if that’s the case … ugh.

      • Jun 28, 20133:45 pm
        by brgulker

        Reply

        Okay, let’s roll with that. I’ve been  critical of Knight and Stuckey since…when? A long time anyway. 

        But let’s not forget that if the Pistons drafted Burke to play PG, that still leaves SG to Stuckey and Knight, and probably some backup time at PG for Knight. It’s not as if drafting Burke rids us of the Stuckey/Knight problem completely.  

        • Jun 28, 20133:46 pm
          by brgulker

          Reply

          Or more succinctly, until Knight and Stuckey are gone, they’re still going to get minutes somewhere, and I am not going to pretend that they’re that much better at the 2 than the 1. 

        • Jun 28, 20133:59 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          No, I agree. They’re bad at either position. So yeah, it basically boils down to me thinking Burke has greater upside than Pope. I think there’s a better chance that Burke develops into a star at his position than Pope at his, but I freely admit that it’s a very minimal chance that either guy does, so I’m not upset about the Pope pick even if I would’ve taken Burke. My annoyance with the organization pretty much stems from the fact that they still have some sort of irrational belief that Knight and Stuckey are good, based on the comments they keep making about both guys publicly and despite a mound of evidence to the contrary.

           

          • Jun 28, 20134:59 pm
            by Pistons87

            It’s not like the organization (or any organization) is going to come out and call them crap.  Of course they’re going say good things about their own players.  What benefit is there in publicly taking shots at these guys.  It won’t help their trade value, the locker room, or their psyche. 

          • Jun 28, 20135:04 pm
            by Tyrell

            KCP has arguably just as good a chance to be a “star” as burke in the sense while Burke supposedly has better skills, the competition to be good at the SG is much easier than the 1. Not suggesting basketball is played in a vacuum but I think it’s easier to be better at 2 spot than the opp. On any given night.

          • Jun 28, 20135:39 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Again another stupid comment form you. They just spent the 8th pick in the draft on a guy that plays Stuckey’s position. And you think they believe Stuckeys’ “good”? You’re insane!

          • Jul 1, 20138:26 am
            by G

            @ Filo – It makes sense if you think THEY think either Knight or Stuckey will be manning the PG spot next year. It’s still unclear because FA just opened up, but when they passed on Burke my first thought was “oh shit they’re gonna run Knight out at PG again”. Stuckey is actually a better PG than Knight, but neither should be a team’s primary ball handler.

    • Jun 28, 20133:29 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      If only Calderon represented any stability in terms of health.   I’d be more on board with KCP if Prince was still on the roster because they’d have at least two players (Prince & Stuckey) who could bring the ball up the floor.  Then they could sign a point guard and all three slots could in theory (as long as KCP is actually starting material) be adequately filled.  My biggest problem with Knight is that he monumentally struggles as starting point guard in terms of even not blowing the first 10 seconds after a made basket on the other end.  Also, I’m getting really tired of anyone referring to Knight as a good defender.   He might have the long arms or whatever but has anyone really seen anything like Knight locking anyone down?  

  • Jun 28, 20133:26 pm
    by James

    Reply

    I think this article could have been a lot more balanced had you included a section on how advanced stats rate both KCP and Burke.  KCP was rated ahead of Burke in the majority of advanced stats projection that I’ve seen.  Whether or not Joe D used analytics to make the pick is irrelevant since what we’re ultimately arguing here is whether or not we got the best player for this team. 

    I feel the majority of this article loses steam after you’re update where Dumars says “We felt that he (KCP) was the best player.  And we also felt that he was a need as well.” Half the article was taking issue that Dumars prioritized need over talent. Look, I like Burke and KCP and was ecstatic both were left on the board when we picked.  Both guys would have added a talented guard/wing to our roster which is desperately needed.  Good arguments can be made for both players but this article feels very one sided.

    You guys do a great job overall here, but I think this passage is pretty sloppy “Burke would not have singlehandedly answered all the questions facing the Pistons, but he could have answered some of them. Instead, Dumars and Caldwell-Pope are left to show why the Georgia wing was so appealing.”  You’e follow that up with no basketball related details of how Burke would have answered more of the Pistons problems than KCP or how Burke is a clearly superior prospect.

    The easy thing for Dumars would have been to pick Burke.  The fan base would rejoice, he’d be applaued by the media and his life would be easier.  He clearly though KCP was the better player.  Whether or not he’s proven right will remain to be seen.

  • Jun 28, 20133:27 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    It’s funny nobody is mentioning the guy who beat Burke to win the Champion ship, Peyton Silva.
    We might just have a great point guard and don’t know it. I know everyone will talk about his shooting. Shooting can improve he’s a distributor and he’s quick. I’m not saying he’s better than Trey but they have the same height and both are competitors. Here are the final 4 stats.

    Trey:  24pts 4rb 3ast  4to

    Silva: 18pts 6rbs 5ast 2to 
     

    • Jun 28, 20134:33 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      And if I look at just a 2 minute sample from the middle of some game, i can make anyone look like the best player in the league. But what’s the point in doing that? We have more information, why focus on just one or two games?

      Fact:
      Siva has basically been averaging 10 and 5 for three years now. He is what he is, a decent PG on the college level, but not even great there. i doubt he makes the Pistons’ roster. 

      • Jun 29, 20139:01 am
        by KaBa

        Reply

        I’m quite sure he is going to make the team. He is OK at almost everything, so why not bring him into the team as a back up. People are sometimes acting here like there are only superstars playing for other teams, and the Pistons pick up the crap. The truth is, there are currently about 6 really good teams in the NBA, and everything else is quite near to each other.

  • Jun 28, 20133:28 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    The game at the NBA level has evolved to where in the past it was impossible to succeed without a pg who dominated the ball and facilitated the offense to now, where the best player on the team of the 1, the 2, or the 3, takes the responsibility to score on his own or to act as a facilitator. Success is no longer limited to teams who have a prototypical point guards. 

    • Jun 28, 20133:34 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      You would have a point if KCP was a strong ball handler and playmaker but not even those in favor of the pick can make that claim.    And Singler can’t initiate the offense either.    Moose is by far the best facilitator on the roster and he’s a big who can’t bring the ball up.   What you are saying is true of the league as in teams with players like LeBron on their team but has no bearing on the current Detroit roster. 

      • Jun 28, 20135:48 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        You will admit that it’s a need though right? Dumars is rolling the dice on Pope. They have a glaring need to find someone who can draw attention from defenses and create opportunities for himself and others with his skill set and athleticism. It needs to come from the 1,2 or 3. I can’t think of one center or power forward who has played that role and definitely not since the three point line was instituted. 

        • Jun 28, 201311:10 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          I can certainly see him having a great role and the pick will make a lot more sense if it is followed by the resigning of Calderon or another decent to good point guard.    One way that bigs can dominate the action and initiate offense is through pick and rolls and pick and pops.  I can definitely see KCP playing with the bigs this way in the half court and he looks like a good defender.  

          I just look at the team right now as is and think there is no one who can run the offense with any poise.   More importantly, Knight is not even close to a good enough ball handler and passer to play with KCP and Singler as the only real ball handler getting the ball up the court.  

          • Jun 29, 201311:21 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Sorry. You lost me.  They need to get faster, more athletic, and better scoring from the 2 and 3. That’s the issue not finding a some magical point guard.. Did they night and day improve when they had a prototypical pass first guy with Calderon. No. They’re weakness at the more crucial positions is the reason they weren’t competitive…

    • Jun 28, 20133:45 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      So we’re referring to evolution that occurred around the 1st 2 Pistons championships, when the Bulls won 6 rings without a prototypical PG?

      • Jun 28, 20134:54 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Or nearly half of every NBA championship ever? Off the top of my head I could name about 20 champions that didn’t have a prototypical PG – any Lakers team, the Bulls, several of the Celtics teams, Philly, Seattle, the Knicks, the Bullets…

        • Jun 28, 20136:15 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          I wish you would name the guys who played on those championship teams that you mentioned because if you want to go back to Walt Frasier with the Knicks, Maurice Cheeks with the 76ers, Bob Cousey then K.C. Jones with the Celtics, Gus Williams with Seattle, Gail Goodrich and Jerry West when they switched positions, would not just bring the ball up the floor but also initiate the offense. Everything changed with the onset of the Bird, Magic era. That’s when offenses began to be facilitated, if a team had a guy with the talent thru the 2 or the 3. Think Bird (3), Magic (you could call him a 2), Jordan (2), Grant hill (3) Durant(3) Wade (2) Dirk (3) Lebron (3) and Kobe(2). All capable of bringing the ball up the floor then initiating the offense. On the Lakers Kobe plays that role not the Point. When Dallas won Dirk played that role not the point; On Miami LeBron and Wade play that role not the point. The point I’m making is you no longer need top ten point guard facilitator to win a championship.

          • Jun 28, 201311:14 pm
            by Max

            Everyone gets the point about players being able to run the offense through other positions which then allows for non traditional point guards.  The point and why people are bummed is that the Pistons don’t have one and don’t have a point guard.   

          • Jul 1, 20138:38 am
            by G

            Cheeks ended up playing more than I though he did (I was thinking the ’83 Sixers ran out Richardson & Toney with Cheeks coming off the bench), but the post-Cousy Celts didn’t have a traditional PG, Frazier wasn’t a traditional PG, neither was KC Jones, West & Goodrich were HARDLY traditional PG’s, and who did the ’78 Bullets have? Unseld nearly led the team in assists.

      • Jun 28, 20137:00 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        Yes basically, but Magic Johnson was the one that opened eyes that you don’t have to have a prototypical pg to facilitate the offense.

        • Jun 29, 20131:13 am
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          Too Max. You’re not getting it. Point guard is not as integral of a position as it used to be..

          • Jun 29, 20132:54 pm
            by Max

            What am I not getting?   I am perfectly aware that players at other positions can perform the functions of a traditional point guard as in bringing the ball up, initiating an offense and creating off the dribble to get others baskets–all while not turning the ball over at a high clip.   I will say though that around half the teams in the league have a player who could be considered a star point guard, that the position is currently more deep with stars than it probably has ever been and that there are more stars at the point in today’s NBA than any other position.   What I don’t see on the Pistons is anyone who can even adequately play the position or any player at any other position who can perform the functions.   Right now, Stuckey is actually the best point guard on the team because he is the best ball handler, doesn’t struggle to get the ball up the floor and doesn’t struggle with turning the ball over.   Burke would have helped out enormously regarding all of these considerations.

  • Jun 28, 20133:45 pm
    by Jay wiz

    Reply

    i really liked our draft. Last year we had really no outside shooting presence. We got moose an the penguin, so we need to surround then with guys who can shoot. Hopefully KCP brings an offensive game that the Pustons have been missing for a while 

  • Jun 28, 20133:52 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    Can’t wait to see if Burke and Silva go at it again in summer league. At the end theres a championship.

     http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2013/5/23/4359742/2013-orlando-magic-nba-summer-league-format-tournament

    • Jun 28, 20135:10 pm
      by mike

      Reply

      I wonder if Joe took Siva as insurance to prevent Burke from ever lighting up the Pistons in the future. lol Getting the guy who has proven he can shut down Burke, not a bad move. I really like Siva.

      • Jun 28, 20135:38 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        i would not dismiss siva as a real possibility to stick.
        why?
        because he fits the type of system cheeks likes to run.
        basically, he demands max effort on defense, and he plays a scrambling, gambling type of defense, but he lets the reins loose on offense.  some observers might say that he lets his guys basically do anything they want to on the offensive end.
        that sounds very much like the kind of system that siva would thrive in.
        now, i don’t think it will happen, but if it does, i would not be surprised, for those reasons.
        no way, siva could ever work in a flip saunders style system with all of its plays and rigidity.
        but under cheeks, who will basically let his guys run things on court as long as they defend, siva might be surprisingly effective.  and he might secure a spot. 

  • Jun 28, 20134:24 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    wild conjecture here.
    repeat, this is simply wild conjecture, but it is something that came to mind immediately after the draft.
    i wonder if mo cheeks has indicated a comfort level with knight as his pg and whether that factored into joe d passing over mcmillan,, who may not have had the same comfort level with knight.
    for instance, suppose joe and cheeks, and joe and mcmillan, respectively, had specific discussions about continuing with the knight at pg experiment.
    what if mcmillan basically said, no way, joe, i don’t like pgs who have turnover problems because my entire concept is based on maintaining ball security and knight’s sloppiness with the ball will ruin that approach.  therefore, i think i’d look in another direction for my pg.  thanks but no thanks.
    and what if cheeks basically said, no problem, i think i can work with knight and help develop him into a useful pg. let’s do it.
    which coach do you think joe would choose?
    based on watching mcmillan coach almost his entire coaching career, i could  easily see mcmillan, in a low key, but blunt way, tell joe that he couldn’t live with knight.  that is just his style.
    and i could also see cheeks going along with the program, just to get along.  that is just his style.
    i wonder if that was part of the discusssion and whether it ended up being a very important factor in joe finally choosing cheeks.
    again, this is nothing but baseless fan conjecture, but it seems to this  fan that we are going to see a return of the knight as point guard theme next season.
    passing on burke, and info about the team’s not relying on calderone’s return brought that thought to the for.
    as ugly as that sounds. 

    • Jun 28, 20135:20 pm
      by Crispus

      Reply

      It’s not that wild. Brandon Knight must be really likable or good in practice or something. Who knows, maybe Cheeks can get him to pass the ball more efficiently.

    • Jun 28, 201311:19 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      I’ve had similar thought Frankie D.  My theory was that Cheeks came to the interview with a sales pitch about improving the players the Pistons have and focused on Knight, his time with Westbrook and his own career as a point guard.   For all we know, that meeting had something to do with the Pistons committing to Knight and not drafting Burke.  

  • Jun 28, 20134:31 pm
    by tiko

    Reply

    woulda been sweet if McLemore fell to us but I like KCP alot

  • Jun 28, 20135:07 pm
    by Jack56

    Reply

    I heard the rumors of Pistons being interested in Bledsoe….Patrick and Dan, what do you think it would take to get Bledsoe…what are some REALISTIC possibilities?

  • Jun 28, 20135:52 pm
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    Watched Burke all season with UM.  Cannot defend the point, too slow, too small, too weak.  Minny drafted Burke but traded him right away to Utah who is hoping for the second coming.  May be a playmaker in college but not suited for the NBA, not quick enough and cannot finish.

    • Jun 28, 201311:23 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Minn obviously traded Burke because they already have Rubio and had decided they liked what Utah was offering more than any player who had already been drafted.   

  • Jun 28, 20135:58 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    I can’t see any scenario of us landing Bledsoe that does not involve us trading our 2014 1st rd pick.  I hate trading draft picks, and everyone knows next years draft class is strong, but I wouldn’t be opposed to giving up that pick to get a young explosive pg like Bledsoe. 
     

    • Jun 28, 20136:07 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Brandon Knight + Det 2014 1st rd
      for
      Eric Bledsoe + LAC 2014 1st rd could get a deal done possibly.  Their salaries are pretty close.
       

      • Jun 28, 20136:14 pm
        by Carl

        Reply

        Bledsoe
        KCP
        Iguodala
        Monroe
        Drummond

        That’s one tough team that will defend…Awesome. 

  • Jun 28, 20136:08 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Kevin Pelton of espn did a statistical rating of all the draft prospects based on his “Projected WARP”  .

    KCP came out as the 3rd highest rated player. 3rd.

    Maybe JoD has gotten into analytics more than we all know. 

  • Jun 28, 20136:09 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Rajon Rondo
    for
    Brandon Knight + Charlie Villanueva Exp + Det 1st rd picks in 2014 and 2015

  • Jun 28, 20136:09 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    We owe our 2014 1st round pick to Charlotte (top 8 protected) so you can stop offering it in trades.

    • Jun 28, 20137:57 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      And they can’t trade 1st rounders in consecutive years, so we can’t offer a 1st until 2016.

  • Jun 28, 20136:10 pm
    by Russell C

    Reply

    there was an article yesterday about interest in Bledsoe. Maybe they’ll offer a front loaded contract that the Clippers cannot match. Or maybe they see Siva as the point guard of the future who knows but I still would trust Dumars’ opinion above Patrick or Dan’s. That’s even after the questionable moves over the last few years.  

  • Jun 28, 20137:12 pm
    by Hook shot

    Reply

    A lot of vitriol spewed today. I think this was a very good draft for the Pistons. They drafted for need. Granted there are some other moves to make like getting rid of Stuckey, getting some depth in the front court and getting a point gurad(they need to sign Calderon).  Going back to the draft KCP gives you outside shooting and Mitchell a lot of athleticism which will translate off the bench. He is a true wild card. I think he canlearn a lot by watching tape and become a gym rat with a lot of direction. Can’t wait until Summder League. Hope springs eternal.

  • Jun 28, 20137:30 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    A lot of crying going on…

     

  • Jun 28, 20137:43 pm
    by Pimp Zombie

    Reply

    Burke is Jameer Nelson, at best…he won’t haunt us. Dont be suprised if this means Joe D is making a play for Rondo or Eric Bledsoe

    • Jun 28, 20137:46 pm
      by Pimp Zombie

      Reply

      OR brandon Jennings

      • Jun 28, 20138:01 pm
        by Ryan

        Reply

        Please God no. That headcase needs to go link up with Dwight Howard and form the single most narcissistic team the world’s ever seen.

        • Jun 28, 201311:28 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Jennings could be nice.   He showed he could play against the Heat in the playoffs this year.   At this moment in time, why not?   They do have to spend some money this summer.   

          • Jul 1, 20138:41 am
            by G

            Jennings should probably shoot only threes, and while he gets decent assists, he doesn’t look like a generous PG to me.

  • Jun 28, 20137:50 pm
    by RyanK

    Reply

    Joe D made his decision.  Pope is a better player than Burke in Joe’s mind and perhaps in reality.  I applaud his decision and going with what he thinks instead of trying to make the hometown fans happy by selecting the “hometown hero.”

    The demand for Burke to Detroit is at least 75% a result of him being the “hometown hero.”  He was one of the top 10-15 prospects in this draft anywhere else in the country…but were they clamoring for him like they were in Michigan.  

  • Jun 28, 20138:09 pm
    by Travis

    Reply

    The look on Burke’s face after the Pistons selected Kentavious was saddening to see. I can only speculate that Joe Dumars will have a friendly conversation with Trey Burke due to the relationship Jordan Dumars has with Burke. There is no hard feelings between the two, but Burke, like most players that drop in the draft, will be out to prove to the 9 other teams that they missed out not selecting him.
     

  • Jun 28, 20138:31 pm
    by mythx

    Reply

    First off I would like to say I think Burke has a higher ceiling and floor than KCP. But even if there were completely equal there are two things I did not see mentioned.

    1) Which position has a higher value and is harder to fill? Both of those clearly favor Burke. A team with an excellent PG and a decent SG will go farther than the opposite most of the time.
    2) As for Joe’s identifying league wide trends. How often have we seen teams using a 2 PG backcourt the last few years (ex. Paul/Billups). having 2 ball handlers on the floor at the same time seems to me to be a trend Joe completely missed
     

  • Jun 28, 20138:32 pm
    by Brian Nienhaus

    Reply

    I will not be reading any more pieces by Mr. Feldman. Life is to short to put up with one needlessly controversial stance after another. Maybe during another era in journalism when people had fewer choices, but not now. 

  • Jun 28, 201310:17 pm
    by Grizz

    Reply

    Burke is an intriguing talent… RESPECT to him for a great career at UofM… but is he more certain to be a good PG in the NBA than Knight? I do not think so.. We have seen Knight make a lot of turnovers.. but really he has had no wings to pass to shoot outside.. and had a really dumb head coach in Frank, which journalists here did NOT have the right line on (So you guys are not always right either)… If you look at Brandon’s best games, he was quite dominant, and you can see his full potential thereby. Expect him to become a very good PG and with better teammates, more experience, a far smarter head coach (hard not to be that)… Knight still has a lot to learn.. but Mo Cheeks is a star pg who can teach him a thing or 2….. Knight is and will continue to be a better defender and rebounder than Burke his entire career… KCP.. about fastest player in the draft.. good on both sides of the court, boards real well too… .. the first good wing we have had in Detroit in a long time.. Time only will tell but Joe Dumars had a really good draft.There are no guarantees about either Knight or KCP or Burke excelling .. Time will tell who was right and will be glad to eat crow when that time comes .. Just be ready to do the same .. Go Pistons …

  • Leave a Reply

    Your Ad Here