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Detroit Pistons #DraftDreams: Ray McCallum

Info

  • Measurables: 6-foot-3, 190 pounds, junior point guard from Detroit
  • Key Stats: 18.7 points, 4.5 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.9 steals per game; shot 49 percent from the field and 32 percent from 3-point range
  • Projected: Late first/early second round
  • Hickory High similarity score

Random Fact

Ray McCallum was a better prospect than his bigger name point guard counterparts in Michigan this year, Trey Burke and Keith Appling. That’s not hyperbole. McCallum was a high major recruit out of Detroit Country Day who chose to play at the University of Detroit for his dad. In fact, if I would’ve had a vote for Mr. Basketball during McCallum’s senior year, I would’ve voted for him over Appling. He was a polished, pure point guard, unselfishly looking to set up his teammates but also a phenomenal athlete who could go up and over bigs to finish and create his own shot. I’m convinced that McCallum is going to be the steal of this draft.

At Detroit, his passing numbers don’t stick out because he was simply asked to score too much. In his three years, the team had one other player who could reliably get his own shot and that player, Nick Minnerath, missed all of McCallum’s sophomore season with an injury. The Titans were offensively challenged, but McCallum led them to one tournament appearance and solid seasons in his other two years with the team. Some were surprised that he declared for the draft after his junior year, but as we’ve seen from workout reports, he belongs. He’s going to be a valuable addition to whichever team takes him. 

Fits with the Pistons because …

There is a vocal contingent of fans that would be thrilled if the Pistons took in-state star Trey Burke with the eighth pick in the draft if Burke lasts that long. But Burke also has his detractors. If the Pistons don’t end up with Burke, they could still take a Michigan college star and they’d be getting one who has a more prototypical NBA guard build and athleticism. The knock on Burke is size, but at 6-foot-3 with long arms and great leaping ability, McCallum has no such concerns. He’d give the Pistons some additional size at the point guard spot, something that could come in handy if the plan to play Brandon Knight as primarily a shooting guard continues.

Production-wise, the thing I liked best about McCallum this year was his improvement despite being asked to do more for the Titans with less around him. After Detroit’s tourney appearance during McCallum’s sophomore season, Detroit lost its top two post players from that team, Eli Holman and LaMarcus Lowe, and its second leading scorer, guard Chase Simon (all three went on to play in professional leagues, so they were impact players at that level). Despite less depth, a younger roster and more attention from opposing defenses on McCallum, he still became a more efficient player, hitting a career-best 49 percent of his shots and posting a career-low in turnovers per game while playing a career-high in minutes per game.

McCallum is a natural point guard, he’s smart, he’s hard-working. That’s exactly the type of player the Pistons should be looking at in round two.

Doesn’t fit with the Pistons because …

The one major weakness in McCallum’s game is perimeter shooting. He made 32 percent of his threes last season, and that was a career-best. The Pistons need more perimeter threats to help give Greg Monroe more room to operate inside. McCallum’s shot has gotten better over the last three years, so that’s a positive. But potentially as a rookie second round pick, he won’t have immediate opportunities to play big minutes. If he’s able to work on that shot the rest of this summer, that will give him an even better shot at earning a role with a team early on.

From the Experts:

Chad Ford:

One thing that virtually all of these mid-major players have in common is high basketball IQ. McCallum is another player who thrives, in part, because he has such a superior feel for the game. He’s very quick, can be a defensive hawk and thinks pass first. He needs to improve as a shooter, but given the way he has matured this season, his game has very few holes. I think he’s the sleeper point guard of the draft, and I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see his name called in the first round.

DraftExpress:

McCallum has excellent ball-handling skills, plays the game at a nice pace and shows great poise. Doubling as his team’s primary ball-handler and top scoring option, he generally does a very good job taking care of the ball and making good decisions, as evidenced by the fact that he turns the ball over on only 12% of his used possessions this season, second among all point guards in our top 100 rankings.

As we’ve written before, McCallum is at his best when he can get out in transition, but he’s also done a better job this year of being more shifty off the dribble to create in the half-court, where he attacks the basket hard and finishes effectively at the rim, even through contact, as he’s connecting on an impressive 61% of his shots in the basket area.

Hickory High (via Vic in the comments and Jameson Draper, who also sent the link):

The first thing of note was the high evaluation of a number of point guards. Even the projections of small-school studs at the position such as Ray McCallum, C.J. McCollum, and Nate Wolters compared very favorably against competitors at other positions. That result is partially due to the recent success point guards have achieved in the NBA. This can also be attributed to the fact that currently the data isn’t set up to separate point guards from swing players. Nevertheless, players like McCallum or Wolters could actually turn out to be cunning steals for teams if they fall into the second round (projected to go 41st and 39th, respectively).

On Film:

Previously:

83 Comments

  • Jun 3, 201311:09 am
    by Tiko

    Reply

    Love this kid 

  • Jun 3, 201311:18 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    I’d be very happy to see us take Ray McCallum with one of our second round picks.

  • Jun 3, 201311:33 am
    by G

    Reply

    Been saying all year Detroit needs to get this guy. At this point in the process though, McCallum might not be there when they pick in the 2nd round.

  • Jun 3, 201312:14 pm
    by NickB

    Reply

    If we don’t draft Burke, I’d much rather draft McCallum. His poor 3 point shooting is a serious concern, but he can get better and I hope he does.
     
    But so let’s say we get him in the 2nd round. Who else do we draft to go with him?
     
    Who do we keep at PG? Trade Knight? Resign Calderon? Bynum? Stuckey? Another FA? I don’t want to see Knight at SG.

    • Jun 3, 201312:24 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Why don’t you want to see Knight at SG? He was a disaster at PG and shouldn’t be starting there. I suspect the Pistons will get their starting PG in FA. McCallum would be the #2 PG (hopefully), and Knight would be the #1 or #2 SG, depending on who else they get.

      • Jun 3, 201312:35 pm
        by NickB

        Reply

        I’ll be honest, I wasn’t thrilled with Knight as a SG at all. Plus, he’s undersized for the position. I’d rather let him develop as a PG. If he sucks, then he’ll help make the team tank so that it can get better (assuming we suck enough to get a top 8 pick and thus not lose it to Charlot).

        Of course, I was more thinking about trading him for a pick, or in a package deal for some legit asset to go with dumped salary. Ideally, I’d trade into the top of the draft for Otto Porter Jr, but no team that is going to draft Porter needs a PG/SG like Knight, so I’d be a future pick (from a borderline playoff team), or another pick in this draft not too far from where we already are at.

        I was thinking if we could pull that off, we could go for KCP and Bennett, fill SG and SF, then McCallum at PG, plus whatever FA’s we bring in. We might be able to pull this off without trading Knight though if we can get Dallas’ pick for taking on salary, so presumably we’d use the 3 picks to move up or get a pick in next years draft from an awful team with a dumb GM (read:any of them).

        • Jun 3, 20131:05 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Knight is SLIGHTLY undersized at the 2, but his reach & athleticism make up for some of that. His skill set, however, is entirely that of a SG. He doesn’t handle the ball particularly well, and his passing skills leave much to be desired. If the idea is to let him work on his PG skills next year, it shouldn’t be as the starter at PG.

          Personally I think he’s a 2 guard. He’s never really been a playmaker. There have been several 2 guards his height or shorter that have had solid careers, so I don’t think his height should automatically exclude him from the position.

          • Jun 3, 20132:03 pm
            by NickB

            I’ll be honest. I was a huge fan of BK’s. I loved his attitude, effort, and hard work. I want him to succeed, but he looked awkward at SG. I have nothing to base this on, but I really feel like he’d be better off learning to be a PG, either on our bench or somewhere else, than moving to SG. I want to keep him. I just like him. No logical reason for it.
             
            The way that we are handling Knight just reminds me of how we f’ed up Rodney Stuckey. If he sat on the bench behind Billups for another year or two, he might have turned out better. So I want to give Knight that chance to get better first. Still, not a lot of room for him if we add McCallum, because I’d be stunned if we went with those two as our starting PGs.

          • Jun 3, 20137:02 pm
            by Ozzie-Moto

            Stuckey /Knight / possible pic CJ Mcollum etc etc …  I don’t want a player to learn to play point guard. I WANT a point guard that it is his first nature, instinctive and competent.  Send me a list of players that “learned” to be a great point guard?   I know we had a pretty good run with C Billups but he ran pretty much a half court offense.  I can hardly remember him run a single fast break.  His killer 3 is what allowed him to play point…   So if Ray McCallum is a 2 OK,  but no more waiting for a teams LEADER on the floor to grow into the position …. With Dru you need a guy to throw the lob or run a great fast break .. So lets stop all this “waiting for someone to grow in the the point guard spot  GET A REAL ONE…
             
             

          • Jun 3, 201311:04 pm
            by oats

            Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Rajon Rondo, Gilbert Arenas, Jrue Holiday, Baron Davis, Derrick Rose, and Devin Harris all had similar or significantly worse passing numbers to Ray McCallum in college. That’s just players to put up at least 7 assists a game in the last 5 years while not being a better college passer. I actually rounded up Steph Curry’s 6.9 to get him in the list, but I’m left off Damian Lillard’s 6.5 assists as a rookie. Obviously quite a few of these guys actually were already good passers, they just weren’t really getting the most of that skill set in college. I’d say McCallum has a chance to be that way too. Between his high school rep as a pass first player, his solid assist/turnover ratio, and his really low turnover percentage I’d say the odds are decent that McCallum is a point guard who is forced to shoot a ton by playing with a really bad team. I’m actually far more concerned with his 3 point shooting than his passing.

  • Jun 3, 201312:19 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    Sold.

    count me in… if Nate Wolters isn’t available that is. Nate’s a much better 3point shooter, and that’s what MonroeDrummond need to be surrounded with.

    I’m impressed with McCallums athleticism though, and that usually goes a long way in the NBA.

     

    • Jun 3, 201312:23 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      the athleticism mixed with skill.

  • Jun 3, 201312:24 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    I’d be fine with him as a second rounder. But he’s not all that exciting a prospect.

    • Jun 3, 201312:44 pm
      by NickB

      Reply

      I don’t get why he isn’t thought more highly of. He does pretty much everything you could want out of your point guard but hit a lot of 3′s. He’s got fine size, good athleticism, nice passing skills, doesn’t turn over the ball, scores, and defends. He has no character issues and is fundamentally sound. What exactly is wrong with him? What can you say will hold him back from being a successful NBA player? He seems like a very good prospect, underrated simply because he went to UDM.

  • Jun 3, 201312:27 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    #8: KCP/Tony Mitchell
    #13 (from Dallas): Tony Mitchell/Glen Rice
    #37 Nate Wolters/Ray McCallum
    #55 James Ennis/Deshaun Thomas 

    • Jun 3, 201312:52 pm
      by NickB

      Reply

      There’s no way that we take Mitchell at 8th overall. 13th, fine, but 8th would be a huge reach for a guy who failed and regressed in college.
       
      I’m not a huge fan of Glen Rice either, he’s basically Shabazz Muhammad with more character concerns, and inflated stats from playing in the no-defense D-league.
       
      I’m also not a huge fan of Thomas, because he was a bit stupid (great idea, not giving your number to a team that might draft you) and is athletic. Plus he’s from OSU. Might as well shoot for the fences, right? I like Adonis Thomas from Memphis, or Ray’s teammate at UDM, the dunking champion, Doug Anderson.
       
      I like that you brought up Ennis though, he could be a serious steal. You have to worry about his level of competition, but he is an impressive player.

      • Jun 3, 20131:28 pm
        by Vic

        Reply

        Yeah I’d even take Ennis at 37 if we didn’t need insurance for Calderon… 

      • Jun 3, 20131:30 pm
        by Vic

        Reply

        You should do a little more research on Tony Mitchell’s situation.

        It was even worse than Andre Drummonds, which is why the Pistons got the 2nd or 1st best player in the draft at #9.
        Tony Mitchell could be the best player in this draft in 2 years, even as a backup PF. 

      • Jun 3, 20131:48 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        And what are the Pistons giving up to get Dallas’ pick?

        • Jun 3, 20132:28 pm
          by Vic

          Reply

          give Stuckey, Villanueva
          take a big contract on Marion

          • Jun 3, 20132:41 pm
            by NickB

            They’re trying to clear cap space for Dwight. Taking CV would do the opposite. Even by losing Marion, they’d be saving what, half a million? No, we’d have to give them a cheap player. Super cheap.

          • Jun 3, 20133:42 pm
            by tarsier

            Or take Marion and the pick in exchange for nothing (or the 56th pick). But is Dumars that smart?

            This is why amnestying CV is such a good idea. Other teams would rather salary dump and take nothing back than take back an expiring deal. 

          • Jun 3, 20134:27 pm
            by Vic

            My idea was that they could take Stuckey and Villanueva then refusE to extent Stuckeys contract and then amnesty Villanueva.

            but I’m not sure probably doesn’t work like that 

          • Jun 3, 201311:33 pm
            by gmehl

            @tasier  What is the deadline for us to use the amnesty again?? By memory I thought it was sometime in July. Is this right??

          • Jun 4, 20139:56 am
            by tarsier

            My understanding is that the amnesty provision can only be used for the one week immediately following the July moratorium. So this year, I think that is July 10-16.

      • Jun 3, 20131:48 pm
        by Vic

        Reply

        Look what i found: 
        http://www.hickory-high.com/?p=8035

        The linear regressions agree with me, and I don’t even know how to do one.

        they specifically mention Nate Wolters, Ray MCcallum, KCP, and Tony Mitchell as players that will severely outperform their draft position.
        I promise I didn’t look at this article before my previous post! 

        • Jun 3, 20131:58 pm
          by NickB

          Reply

          Vic, it’s okay, you don’t need to tell me that he has really great potential and is going under the radar. I know all about his knew coach, injured PG, and all that, but fact is that he went to a small school and put up unimpressive numbers while he was there. Chances are that some smart team will snatch him up in the 20′s. What I was trying to say was that taking him at 8th was really overdrafting him. He could be had much lower in the draft, so why not take him at a lower spot when he’ll be there, and use the higher draft pick on a player who won’t be there at 13th overall?

          • Jun 3, 20132:26 pm
            by Vic

            i agree, I’d prefer to take him at 13 rather than 8.

            But for me the most important thing is to get the best player, not worry about draft board projections

  • Jun 3, 20131:05 pm
    by Clint in Flint

    Reply

    Any thoughts on Taveras as a late second round choice? I know he is not ready yet but he could be money in the bank.

    • Jun 3, 20131:20 pm
      by G

      Reply

      You have to roll the dice with a pick that late. Take a Euro guy you can stash for a couple years, take a guy that didn’t produce much but has out of this world athleticism (like DJ Stephens)… Livio Jean-Charles might still be around, or Nogueira, or even the other Adetokunbo (Thanasis, not Giannis)

  • Jun 3, 20132:55 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    I hope Detroit explores a deal with Dallas for their 13th pick by taking up Marion’s contract. This could potentially allow us to take both Shabazz Mohammad and KCP, who are both one of the best wing players in this years draft.
    Not sure how we would land Ray McCallum if we give up our second round pick in the Dallas deal, but we could give up a future second round instead. With both Calderon and Will Bynum possibly heading out of Detroit next year, McCallum could be a weapon off the bench, unless he’s good enough to start.
    Detroit really needs to get in more people in the management and coaching staff to develop players better.
     

  • Jun 3, 20132:56 pm
    by deusXango

    Reply

    Ray McCallum deserves to be drafted in the early second round by the Pistons, if he’s still there, because we need that boost of local talent that’s young and promising. That’s what a win-win is.

  • Jun 3, 20133:45 pm
    by Jay

    Reply

    Get the center out of Indiana if he is available and the best point guard available in the second round. Someone like the guard from Louisville.

  • Jun 3, 20133:57 pm
    by Crispus

    Reply

    Let’s trade down with Houston for Thomas Robinson, one of their picks and Royce White’s distracting twitter account.

  • Jun 3, 20135:25 pm
    by DasMark

    Reply

    I would be ecstatic if Detroit took Ray in the second round. It could be another second round steal. 

  • Jun 3, 20136:44 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    have to say i am not impressed with mccallum.
    only saw one game of his and that was the kansas game in last year’s tourney and he had a horrific game.  he seemed to shrink to the challenge and not rise up.
    i know it is totally unfair to judge a kid by one game, but that game left a real impression.
    by contrast, when mccollum had a chance to play with the big boys, he responded with a performance that stated that he was just as good, or better, than anyone else on the floor.  mccallum looked simply overmatched when he was on the floor with the kansas players.
    i’m also not thrilled about a point guard who can’t shoot.  his 3 point percentage is pretty bad and for a guy with his game, he has to be able to make that shot.
    maybe he can and maybe i’m just being very unfair to him.  i will acknowledge that possibility.
    i just keep thinking back to how scared he played last year and i just had a very sour taste after watching that performance. 

    • Jun 3, 201311:42 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      McCollum played against Duke in the tourney. That team could not defend opposing guards at all. That was Curry and Rivers in the back court. I like Plumlee alright, but he’s not exactly an intimidating shot blocker. McCollum ripping through that defense was insanely predictable. I thought Duke had enough offense to get by Lehigh anyways, but I had them going out in the opening weekend because they just couldn’t play D. Kansas was on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. Elijah Johnson and Travis Releford both took turns on McCallum, and they had Withey hanging around the paint to scare off attempts to go to the hoop. It’s really not a fair point of comparison. I should note that despite his terrible shooting and the fact that his team only put up 50 points, McCallum still had 5 assists and 1 turnover. He wasn’t terrible that game, just bad.
       
      Another thing to take note of is that McCollum wasn’t as good in that Duke game as I remembered him being. Have you checked the box score lately? 30 points on 9-24 shooting, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, and 4 turnovers. So that’s pretty bad shooting, a nice assists total, and a bad assist to turnover ratio. All in all, not nearly as good as I remembered it being. He then stunk against Xavier in the next game. 14 points on 5-22 shooting, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, and 4 turnovers. Whatever good that Duke game did, that Xavier game also exposed him to a large extent.
       
      If the decision is CJ McCollum or Ray McCallum, I would take CJ. That isn’t the call here though. We’re talking about one lottery prospect and one 2nd rounder. Yeah, his 3 point shooting is problematic, but we’re talking about the second round. Everyone that deep in the draft projects as likely career back ups, and McCallum is no exception. If he is as good of a passer as I think he might be, he has real value as a guy running the offense off the bench. If he improves to a league average 3 point shooter then he becomes a guy that could become a solid starter. That sounds like solid value for the 37th pick in the draft.

      • Jun 4, 20135:41 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        while it is indeed unfair to expect that different players will perform identically under relatively similar circumstances, one expects that the better athletes will exhibit a certain level of confidence and competence, especially when the circumstances are most demanding.
        i didn’t know what to expect from either mccollum or mccallum in last year’s tourney.  all i know is that one guy stepped up, proved, by his performance, that he was the best player on the court – while playing against a team loaded with high-profile recruits – and the other guy had a game that was …bad…horrific…terrible…whatever adjective one wishes to use.  
        bottom line: he was not good and he did not play well.
        as noted, perhaps drawing conclusions from seeing a player once is unfair, but the fact that he did not step up at the point, where his team needed him the most, said volumes about him, imho.
        for instance, if mccallum had had a duke-mccollum type game against kansas, i’d bet that he’d be looked at as a serious guy to watch this draft.  instead, he is what he is: a marginal PG who needs to land in just the right spot in order to not spend the next 5 years bouncing between the d-league, europe and a string of 10 day contracts.
        imho, why waste a draft pick on a guy like mccallum?
        there are plenty of good, athletic non-shooting PGs in the dleague and europe.  if a team does its homework well, you can always pick up a guy like that somewhere.  college BB is full of guys like mccallum.  the difference between a guy like mccallum and the first round is usually the ability to shoot from distance, or to shoot at all, outside of the lane.  if ish smith could make a jumper, he’d tear the league up.  instead, he’s a third PG who is pretty much always expendable.  
        a guy like mccallum – or in the old days, jacques vaughn – can always find a spot in the league, if they persevere.  but they are also relatively easy to replace.  i’d rather draft a guy like mike muscala or jackie carmichael or erik murphy and see if they develop.
        those guys are a little tougher to find. 

        • Jun 5, 20137:50 am
          by oats

          Reply

          I really don’t think the situations were comparable though. Duke struggled against opposing guards all year because they were a terrible defensive team. Kansas was possibly the best defensive team in the country. There is a reason Duke lost in the opening game while Kansas lost to Kentucky in the championship game. It isn’t just CJ McCollum, it’s that Kansas was a much better team than Duke. Kansas was probably the second best team in the country that year. It really is not a fair comparison to make. 
           
          McCallum’s got a few things going for him. He’s a prototypical point guard when it comes to size and athleticism. His assist numbers aren’t great, but he’s really good at not turning the ball over. McCallum’s 3 point shooting is slowly improving, and at 32% he is not that far off from being an average shooter. Despite the fact that he can’t hit the 3 consistently, McCallum is actually a pretty efficient scorer because he shoots nearly 48% from the field and takes 6 free throws a game. He’s solid on the boards and at getting steals, which when combined with his physical profile suggests he can become a decent defender. You’re basically writing him off over his 3 point percentage and one bad game against a really good team. That makes a ton of sense with the 8th pick in the draft, but not so much with pick 37. None of the players that late are likely starters, you just get a guy with a chance to become one. McCallum fits that bill.
           
          Your D League and Europe point doesn’t make much sense to me. There are plenty of players that fit any description in D League and Europe. There are plenty of skinny big guys that can score effectively on small teams like Muscala. There are plenty of unathletic big guys that can shoot but do nothing else like Murphy. I’ll admit Carmichael’s skill set is a bit more rare, but there are still a bunch off them. You don’t grade guys based on the availability of lesser talents that have similar skill sets. You grade them based on their likelihood to succeed versus that of the other guys in the draft class. Personally I want the team to get someone with a decent chance of developing in to a starting caliber player. That rules out Murphy in my opinion. Unathletic big men that can’t rebound just never become starters. McCallum, Muscala, Carmichael, Tony Snell, Ricky Ledo, Pierre Jackson, Nate Wolters, Myck Kabongo, Isaiah Canaan, Archie Goodwin, James Ennis, and CJ Leslie all are in the tier of guys I want Detroit looking at. I have a really hard time separating these guys, and any of them would be a good pick.

          • Jun 5, 20133:04 pm
            by frankie d

            i guess the nba has just been totally bonkers all of these years, imagining that talented big guys are rare, while smaller guys are simply more plentiful. 
            i guess there really are more 7 foot guys roaming the earth rather than 6 foot guys.
            who knew!?!
            i look at second round picks as gambles.  low risk, high reward picks.  if i can get a big guy who can fill a rotation spot, i’d probably prioritize him over a PG or a wing who will be a 7th or 8th guy, and just maybe be the 5th player on a mediocre starting 5.
            imho, and in the nba’s eyes, good big guys are just harder to come by. 

  • Jun 3, 201310:19 pm
    by Ozzie-Moto

    Reply

    You want to see what life is like with out real point guards .. look at the Pacers tonight.. no one to get them under control and not turn ball over   

    • Jun 3, 201311:12 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      Very true. I had looked at indy as a possible model for detroit – stuckey/knight are similar to stephenson/hill – but miami’s pressure exposed the lack of a true point guard.
      A hard lesson for the pacers.   You can get away with that kind of pairing often, but real pressure puts a burden on guys like hill – or knight- that he just cannot handle.

      • Jun 4, 20138:05 pm
        by Ozzie-Moto

        Reply

        Exactly:  no “combo” guards running the show under pressure .. Their team will always be susceptible to a turned up defense.   You won’t see that from the Spurs… Tony Parker will make the heat pay for the Heats over play with the pass and his drives …… 

    • Jun 4, 201312:02 am
      by jacob

      Reply

      That’s why Chauncey was so important. Can’t believe we haven’t tried to get another point guard since him. You absolutely need someone that can control tempo and distribute the ball. If they pacers had someone like that they would have beat the heat.

      • Jun 4, 20138:01 pm
        by Ozzie-Moto

        Reply

        exactly  CB in his prime would have allowed Indiana to beat the heat,  Maybe not on game 7 but it would not have gone that far or at least they would not have lost game 7 from the get go …  But CB was a rare scorer that learned to run a real good half court offense but we need a point guard that can also run a fast break.  Again if you ever wanted to see what a team looks like with a “combo” guard running the show look at that game 7 

    • Jun 4, 20138:00 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      I was thinking the exact same thing last night. We desperately need Nate Wolters or Ray McCallum to be available at 37 as Calderon Insurance. The small college guards with pg skills are the ones that succeed

  • Jun 3, 201311:46 pm
    by Vegeta

    Reply

    This guy is just like Nappa, all brute and no skill

  • Jun 3, 201311:58 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    I think a realistic offseason strategy would be to:
    1) Amnesty CV
    2) Trade our 2nd rounder (pick 56) + a future 2nd rounder to Dallas for Shawn Marion and the 13th pick
    3) Then with the 8th + 13th pick we should first see if we can trade up to get either Oladipo, Porter or Burke. If that fails then we can go after a combo of (in no particular order) McCollum, KCP, Zeller, MCW, Schroder, Len or Muhammad.
    4) With our remaining 2nd rounder depending on who we select with picks 8 and 13 and who is left over go after guys like: McCallum, Cannan, Southerland, Muscala or whomever is the best left.
    5) Sign Mayo as a free agent (within reason)
    6) Look to sign a combo of Tony Allen, Brand Wright, Dorell Wright. 

    • Jun 4, 201312:43 am
      by jacob

      Reply

      What is the reasoning for amnestying CV? Why sign mayo when we have knight? Also I would rather have brewer than d Wright. I do agree with trying to add the 13th pick, but don’t trade up. We could use 2 good players.

      • Jun 4, 20133:59 am
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Answering your questions:
        1) What is the reasoning for amnestying CV? You amnesty CV because you can only do it at the start of the season and there will be many teams that will be looking to unload good players that they just can’t afford to keep. The money is coming out of Gores’ pocket so it means nothing to me. If a team comes calling looking to to trade a good player then we have to have those funds ready to go. The top free agents aren’t signing with Detroit but we could most certainly get one in a trade.  
        2) Why sign Mayo when we have Knight? You sign Mayo because he is a proven scorer and more importantly a floor spreader which instantly lets Monroe and Drummond go to work down low. We were almost last in 3 point shooting and if we plan on starting Monroe/Drummond this must be rectified. Don’t be surprised if Knight is shopped come draft day.
        3) I would rather have Brewer than D Wright. Yes I totally agree with this. The problem might be that we’d have to over pay to get Brewer which is the last thing we want to do. I don’t think Joe has to spend all the cap money this season. He needs to keep flexibility going into 2014 where there might be better fits via free agency.

        • Jun 4, 201310:03 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I would definitely like Dumars to spend all of his cap room this offseason. But if he can’t get star caliber players for it (which I don’t expect he can with the majority), it should be in the form of signing bonuses which reduce how much FAs need to be paid annually. For example, instead of paying a guy $20M/4yrs, pay him $10M/4yrs with a $10M signing bonus.

          There is an argument to preserve some cap space to facilitate in-season moves. I would be ok with that, I just have doubts as to whether Dumars is sufficiently savvy.

        • Jun 4, 201311:29 am
          by jacob

          Reply

          Haha as long as it isn’t my money I don’t really care either. I agree with your answers. I only have one more question. Didn’t that Ben Gordon trade set us up to make some big moves this offseason, or we just lose a first round pick at some point? If we don’t really do much this offseason then we pretty much traded Gordon and a first round pick for absolutely nothing? Or is there something that I am not seeing.

          • Jun 4, 201311:57 am
            by gmehl

            Nope your right the 1st rounder was given up with an eye to the upcoming free agency. If we have to give up our pick to Charlotte next season and it falls in the top 5 then Joe will not see another day as Piston GM…book it.

          • Jun 4, 201312:06 pm
            by tarsier

            If it falls in the top 5 (or anywhere in the top 8) next season, Detroit keeps it and Charlotte won’t get it ’til 2015.

            But hopefully some good moves put the Pistons in the playoffs next year. 

          • Jun 4, 20136:01 pm
            by gmehl

            Geez sorry guys that was a ridiculous comment on my part. In my defence it was late and I wasn’t thinking clearly. Admittedly I’ve been logging on to pistonpowered on the hour every hour in hope there is news on our coaching search. Ahhhh the off-season.

    • Jun 4, 20131:43 am
      by tommy t

      Reply

      i’m really warming up to the idea of the Dallas trade. What if we actually keep CV and let his contract run out next year…along with Marions? then, we have a boatload of money when it counts and are forced to actually develop our young guys.

      Can i get a hell no on Mayo? 

      • Jun 4, 201310:09 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        No, no, no, no, no, NO!!!!

        Even if you wan that cap room for next offseason, the way to go is still to amnesty Charlie. Then you either use the $8.5M fora signing bonus for someone this offseason (increasing your cap space next year even further) or you leave it open for greater flexibility to facilitate midseason trades with teams who are looking to salary dump (a great way to pick up assets without giving anything up).

        If you really think you need to keep CV around in case he might happen to be useful, sign Jamison instead to a one year, $2M deal. They bring pretty much the same things to the table.

      • Jun 4, 201312:39 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Keep in mind Stuckey’s $8M contract expires at the end of next season too. Dumars can amnesty Charlie V this year, opening up more cap room, and still have a nice expiring contract next year.

  • Jun 4, 20139:50 am
    by Tom Y.

    Reply

    Looks like a good prospect, and it’s nice to know there’s a couple of those out there – Dennis Schroeder also sounds very intriguing and there’s some other interesting PG’s.

  • Jun 4, 201311:17 am
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

  • Jun 4, 201311:21 am
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    Tarsier for GM.

  • Jun 4, 201312:01 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Off topic but with the Pacers being eliminated last night you’d really hope that we can finally get an interview with Brian Shaw now. Either way we should know who the new coach is in the next couple of days. I am split between Shaw and McMillan and am not too keen on Cheeks. Keep us all posted if you hear/read anything.

  • Jun 4, 201312:28 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    Carter-Williams to Detroit in Chad Fords new mock.

    • Jun 4, 201312:41 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      ouch

      i think i’d prefer muhammad 

    • Jun 4, 201312:43 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Hate it. MCW doesn’t look like that good of a PG, and he’s definitely not a good shooter. I’d rather take Muhammad, KCP, McCollum, or even Schroeder over MCW.

      • Jun 4, 201312:46 pm
        by jacob

        Reply

        He has muhammed 16th to the Celtics.

        • Jun 4, 20136:06 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          This is why you do that trade with the Mavs for Marion and the 13th pick. This way if you want can get a combo of both MCW and Muhammed or KCP and McCollum etc etc.

      • Jun 4, 201312:49 pm
        by NickB

        Reply

        I agree, I’d hate to see us draft him. He can’t shoot, turns the ball over like a fool, and hasn’t been playing a real defense. He sucks.

        • Jun 4, 201312:56 pm
          by jacob

          Reply

          He has trey burke going to sac at 7. I was hoping that they would pass and go zeller. Then Trey would fall nicely to the pistons at 8. It’s happened the last three years.

    • Jun 4, 20135:45 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      You can not have 3 starters who can’t hit a jump shot. That is really dumb, and it never works. Teams will just slump off the MCW to pack the paint. It would be incredibly ugly. MCW would be a really terrible plan. I can live with a second round point guard that can’t hit the 3 because there would be no expectations for that player to start. MCW will be expected to start immediately, and I really can’t see that working out. This is a really bad fit.

  • Jun 4, 20137:07 pm
    by Piston Truth

    Reply

    If you take Burke then of corse McCollom is out of the picture but if burke and any of the top players is gone by no 8 then I would probaly trade either the pick or Knight or both for a few low 1st rd pics …then I would pick up McCollom if he’s available.

  • Jun 4, 201311:35 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    cody zeller worked out for the jazz today.
    from the local rag;

    “He tested well at the NBA Draft Combine and impressed the Jazz in the workout by showing his shooting ability.
    “We saw that he’s a much better outside jump shooter than we originally thought,” said Walt Perrin, Jazz Vice President of Player Personnel.”

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25448725&nid=304&title=cody-zeller-works-out-for-jazz

    doesn’t perrin have a pistons’ background?

    anyway, if zeller is a good outside shooter, i think he is a steal at the pistons’ spot.
    if both zeller and mccollum are there for detroit, it would be a tough choice.
    i’d love to have him as a rotation option, primarily to pair with drummond, but you could get away with playing him with monroe against certain opponents and line ups.  with his mobility, his size and an outside shot, he’s the kind of stretch 4 that joe d has been trying to get for the last few years.  what he thought he had in charlie v.
     
     

    • Jun 5, 20134:13 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Utah desperately needs a PG and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is just them playing mindgames by bringing in Zeller. They would love teams above them to pass on MCW, Schroeder etc so they can swoop in. They are similar to us in the big man department and need help more so in the back court. I guess there just doing there due diligence like everyone else.

  • Jun 4, 201311:40 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    Zeller over muhammed, mccullum, pope, carter Williams, yup. Over burke, bennet, oladipo, porter, no. We could really use zeller, and if Monroe  doesn’t work out this year with Drummond we can sign and trade him.

    • Jun 5, 20131:21 am
      by frankie d

      Reply

      I’d pretty much agree with that  list of prioritized talent.  but i might be tempted to select zeller over mccollum.  probably would still take mccollum but it would a  close call.  if, as the jazz exec implies, zeller is a good outside shooter, he can play the 4, and all of the legit concerns about his ability to score and defend at the 5 are out the window.  i would never draft zeller if the idea was to stick him at center.  but if the plan is to put him next to a legit 5, zeller becomes an entirely different prospect.
      maybe its just me, but i’d be pretty happy to get a 7 footer who can run the floor, knock down jumpers, score in the post against the right matchup, make foul shots and defend the pick and roll because of his quick feet.
      and i would be drooling if i already had a 5 who could compensate for zeller’s obvious weaknesses. 
      while adding another big is not the biggest need,  it is hard to imagine turning down a guy like that at the 8 spot in this draft.  
      for mccollum?…probably…but it is still a tough call.

      • Jun 5, 20131:32 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        Only say over McCollum because we have knight and Stuckey right now. Also I have never seen him play and I got to watch Zeller a ton. Now that we know he can shoot. Wow. I think this is a good thing because either now he jumps up the draft boards or we can take him. If he jumps ahead. That means someone has to drop.

        • Jun 5, 20132:11 am
          by frankie d

          Reply

          True.  He might jump back up into the top 5…maybe to charlotte or phoenix.
          but you are correct.   if he rises, someone else will fall.   either way, detroit gets a quality player.

          • Jun 5, 20134:33 am
            by gmehl

            Yep there is definitely going to be a few surprise picks come draft day. I am predicting 2 or 3 teams trading down or out of the 1st round too.

        • Jun 5, 20139:50 am
          by oats

          Reply

          Monroe shot well in workouts too. In fact, I’ve seen reports on Monroe’s improved jumper after each of his first two seasons. Shooting well in practice and shooting well in games are two different things. Especially in a case like this where no specifics are given. Was it a shooting drill with no defense, or maybe just token defense from a coach? If so, that means even less than just shooting well in a practice. Until he proves it in actual games, I can’t say that Zeller definitely has that mid range shot. It’s just another data point that suggests that he may be able to shoot the mid range shot. It’s not conclusive by any means, but adding his good free throw shooting does make it likely that Zeller will add that shot eventually. Still, it’s not like it’s all that much more likely for him to do it than Monroe just yet.

          • Jun 5, 20131:38 pm
            by frankie d

            i think the biggest problem for monroe is confidence in his shot.
            for whatever reason, he lost confidence in it this year.  last year, he was starting to take – and make –  that shot without hesitation.  this year it seemed that he tried to avoid taking the shot, as though his mission was simply to suck the defense to him, so that he could either get to the hoop or draw fouls.  but his shooting percentages were lower, this year, than at any time previously, college or pro.
            imho, monroe will straighten that out and ultimately become a good mid-range shooter.
            with zeller, apparently he’s always been able to shoot well from the outside, but at indiana, he was simply not asked to do so.  while cleaning up my hard drive recently, i found a couple of indiana game recordings that i’d forgotten about and i took a peek at them again.  what is amazing is how disciplined zeller was, offensively, and how his lack of perimeter shooting was no accident.  in indiana’s offense, he simply shuttled from block to block, low and high and the free throw line, with an occasional move to the top of the key.  he spent 99% of his time in the offensive zone in that area.  obviously, he was simply doing what the coach designed for him and his role was to stay in the paint and use his back to the basket game.  i actually fault crean, the coach, for not using a skill that zeller possessed – the ability to hit the jumper – for the team’s benefit.  the syracuse game was the obvious best/worse example of the coach’s failure, where crean simply kept pounding zeller in the middle despite the fact that it was not working.
            is zeller just a practice warrior who will choke on his shot once he has to shoot that shot in games?
            his solid free throw percentage argues against that happening.  plenty of guys shoot lights out on free throws in practice but when they have to do it in games, they freeze and look like shaq.  zeller has always been a good free throw shooter, so the probability is that he’ll be able to take his shooting into live action.
            i think it is pretty clear what happened with zeller.  he won’t have to add that shot or develop it…he’s always had it.  but his coach had a certain system, he wanted zeller to play a role in that system, and zeller complied with his coach’s demands.  and one of his skills – the ability to shoot perimeter jumpers – was essentially ignored by his coach.  probably because he just doesn’t like his big guys to shoot jumpers.
            that happens also, and sometimes it is good, sometimes it is bad.  
            remember what happened with larry brown and detroit’s big guys?
            okur shot fewer 3 point shots under brown than he ever did.  his penchant for shooting the 3 was one of the reasons he was often in brown’s doghouse.  brown hated big guys roaming the perimeter, shooting 3′s.  so he strongly discouraged it.
            same thing happened with sheed under brown.  he shot the fewest number of 3′s, under brown than he ever had or ever would, at least, after his first few years in the league.  why? brown hated having sheed shooting 3′s.  (it was always funny to see brown berate okur for taking 3′s, and sometimes bench him for it, while he was much, much more tolerant of sheed doing the same thing.  a huge and really obvious double standard that was known to everyone on the team, i’m sure.)
            if someone had looked at okur under brown they would have thought he was a lousy 3 point shooter.  no, his coach just didn’t want him to take that shot and he tried, for the most part, not to piss his coach off by taking that shot.
            my point, which has taken a while to get to – my apologies – is that zeller’s game has always been more versatile, but he’s simply limited the use of all of his skills for the benefit of the coach’s schemes.
            a smart talent evaluator will see that and act accordingly.  my guess is that zeller will start moving up on team’s draft boards now and he might creep into the top 5 again.  maybe detroit won’t get a shot at him.  again, seven footers who run the floor, can shoot from the perimeter and defend out in space aren’t that common.
            and of course, one never knows how players will respond, until they perform in games, but zeller has a pretty good track record so far and it is hard to imagine that he’ll suddenly be incapable of playing at a certain level, once he reaches the nba. 

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