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Brandon Knight ranked third on Pistons’ 2011 draft board?

David Mayo of MLive:

The last three years, the Pistons’ pre-draft big board had Monroe No. 5, Knight No. 3 and Drummond No. 2.

I can make reasonable guesses at the Pistons’ draft boards in 2010 and 2012, but 2011 gets tricky. Let’s start with the easier ones.

2010

1. John Wall

2. Evan Turner

3. DeMarcus Cousins

4. Derrick Favors

5. Greg Monroe

2012

1. Anthony Davis

2. Andre Drummond

2011

This one is much harder to square.

Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams were the consensus top two prospects in the draft.

The Pistons were reported to really like Jonas Valanciunas, and there was a report long after the draft that the Pistons tried to trade up to the No. 5 pick – when Knight was still available, obviously – just to draft Valanciunas.

Enes Kanter was also generally considered a better prospect and fit a bigger need at that time, and the Pistons heavily scouted Kentucky practices just to see him.

That’s four players, only two of whom could rank ahead of Knight according to Mayo.

Did the Pistons really prefer Knight to at least two of Irving, Williams, Kanter and Valanciunas? I find that difficult to believe.

It would also make the Pistons very foolish. I get that they liked Knight a lot more than a No. 8 player, but history shows he was nowhere near the third-best player in that draft.

Of the top 10 prospects in that draft as rated by Chad Ford – Irving, Williams, Kanter, Valanciunas, Knight, Kawhi Leonard, Tristan Thompson, Klay Thompson, Kemba Walker and Kenneth Faried – Knight might have the least value right now.

At the time, drafting Knight at No. 8 was perfectly reasonable. Heck, he also would have been my choice, though I never viewed him as the great steal the Pistons did. But in hindsight, he was drafted too high. Ranking him third – if true – would have been way too high.

106 Comments

  • Jun 20, 201312:17 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    make or break year for BK…

    Alot of people felt he took a step back, I felt like because of Frank he was held back…im sure many would disagree

    But the one thing that Cheeks has said so far, that i’ve been saying along is that “Knight is more than just a PG” …. If we keep Knight at PG, he does have to improve but I also believe the culture in Detroit Pistons basketball must improve as well.

    or backcourt played scared and unsure of themselves…Playing PG or SG… you have to be the most confident player on the floor…

    • Jun 20, 20131:22 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Who thought he took a step back? He was a poor player as a rookie. He was a poor player as a sophomore. But his D was much improved. Now if he could just play some half-decent O, Detroit would have a solid player.

      • Jun 20, 20132:32 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        not really worth going there…my point is let see what he does with Cheeks

        • Jun 20, 20134:48 pm
          by sebastian

          Reply

          I HATE FRANK is right, let’s see how B. Knight does under Mo’.
          As a 20 year old rookie, the kid play quite well, in my opinion, doing a grueling, comprised 66-game season, where he started 60 games (32.3 minutes per game), while averaging 12.9 pts, 3.8 ast, and yes 2.6 t/o.
          Last season, the kid played through a series of injuries, while still playing 75 games and per game averages of 13.3 pts, 4.0 ast, and 2.7 t/o. And, keep in mind, L. Frank did not play B. Knight and Dre Drummond very much, together.
          And, will the national sports media and twerps on Twitter, please stop talking about the Andre Jordan dunk over 6’2 1/2″ Brandon Knight.
          The kid will do just fine, under the tutelage of Mo’ Cheeks.

          • Jun 20, 20135:55 pm
            by Matt

            I can’t think it’s a good idea for us to sign Cheeks for Knight and then dump Knight. I don’t see anyone on this team not named Andre Drummond that benefited from last season. Not even Monroe. I guess Bynum as he’s about to get pretty big check though half that should go to Drummond. Everyone gave up either gave up or didn’t even start. We might benefit from Knight’s attitude. We desperately need some heart. Someone needs to remind them what they could be doing if not for basketball. Especially Stuckey. His offseason training should be getting a job at the Gap making minimum wage. Maybe it’ll remind him how lucky he is.

          • Jun 20, 20138:26 pm
            by tarsier

            I don’t think anyone cares about Jordan’s dunk when assessing Knight. It’s just the most memorable play he was a part of so it is where their mind jumps when thinking about him.

            Much like Perkins is not defined by the Griffin dunk, but it is most memorable moment in some time.

          • Jun 21, 20138:32 am
            by G

            @ Matt – Is anyone suggesting that Cheeks was hired primarily to work with Knight? That’s ASININE, and if it’s true then Dumars should be fired with IMMEDIATE effect.

            Who hires a head coach for the purpose of working with one prospect? And not a particularly GOOD prospect at that… I can see hiring a coach for one player if that guy is LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, or someone like that. For Brandon Knight though? You need the best coach for the TEAM, not the best coach for your 3rd or 4th best player.

          • Jun 21, 201310:29 am
            by Matt

            “The leadership and player development qualities he brings as a former player and coach blends nicely with the roster we are building for the future,” Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars said in a statement. “He’s won an NBA championship, coached in two NBA Finals as an assistant coach and mentored some of the top young players in the NBA.”

            None of that is because of his extensive coaching history. I’m just saying this guy was a star PG who is getting credit for Westbrook, warranted or not. He has never made it out of round one of the playoffs. That doesn’t warrant a 3 or 4 year contract. There has to be some reason we hired him. Plus Dumars defines assinine. Can you say the last 3 coaches had better reasons for hiring them?
            Knight a talented player. He belongs in the NBA and still has potential. Give the guy some credit, he has the heart we need.

            http://www.nba.com/2013/news/06/10/pistons-hire-maurice-cheeks.ap/index.html were the quote came from

          • Jun 21, 201311:29 am
            by G

            My problem is there is 1 main narrative that is being promoted (largely by the fans) as the reason Cheeks was hired – namely that he’s responsible for the development of Westbrook as a PG, ergo (concordantly, vis a vis…) Cheeks will have a similar impact on Knight. There are several flaws with this narrative.
            - Westbrook showed more promise as a rookie PG (before Cheeks came along) than Knight has so far
            - Westbrook was (and is, and will always be) a MUCH better player than Knight and a significantly better athlete
            - There is little evidence to suggest one way or another how much impact (if any) Cheeks’ coaching had on Westbrook’s play
            - Developing Knight as a PG shouldn’t even have been in the Pistons’ top 5 requirements for the new HC

            Ahead of it I’d rate 1. Establishing a defensive system, 2. Establishing an offensive system, 3. Developing the players as individual defenders, 4. Developing certain players as outside shooting threats, 5. Establishing a team identity… Then somewhere in there are other qualifications like relating to the players, making in-game adjustments, managing the game (player’s minutes, the rotation, timeouts, etc). The Pistons DO need a PG, badly, but I think of that as being more in the GM’s hands or an assistant coach’s. The HC doesn’t have enough time to work with one guy all the time, which is why he has assistants.

        • Jun 20, 20136:56 pm
          by sop

          Reply

          Count me among the minority that still thinks Knight can succeed as a PG or a 6th man. He needs to work on his court-vision, dribble penetration and pick-&-roll game if he wants to be a PG where he would be most useful to Detroit. But believe it or not the thing he needs to work on the most if he wants to be a stud at any position is his shooting. Yes he’s a good shooter but he’s not an elite athlete in power or speed (like most of the PG stars) so his only route to being good is the long shot of emulating Steph 41Curry. Injuries definitely derailed his season as in Jan he was shooting the 3 at 41% whereas he ended with about 37%.

          • Jun 21, 201312:34 pm
            by tarsier

            “Count me among the minority that still thinks Knight can succeed as a PG or a 6th man.”

            I don’t think that makes you part of a minority. If you thought he was a good NBA player right now, that would make you part of a (shockingly large) minority. If you think he will succeed as a PG, SG, or 6th man, that pretty much puts you on one side of what appears to be a 50/50 split. But to think that he can, most people would agree with you.

  • Jun 20, 201312:24 pm
    by XstreamINsanity

    Reply

    I think because of Irving’s small sample size and Valanciunas likely having buyout issues, it may have been Williams and Kanter the only two in front of Knight on the Pistons board.

  • Jun 20, 201312:54 pm
    by Adam

    Reply

    I heard that the trade was in place with the Raptors to move up and grab Tristan Thompson and the Raptors were interested in moving down and grabbing Knight at 8.  The Thompson was picked at number 5 and threw a wrench into the whole deal.  The Pistons would have traded Stuckey in that deal and received Calderon as well.

  • Jun 20, 20131:03 pm
    by DasMark

    Reply

    I’d wager that Derrick Williams has the least value of those top 10, with Knight in second to last place. 

    It’s the draft, hindsight is 20/20. A ton of team passed on Faried.  

  • Jun 20, 20131:08 pm
    by Mike

    Reply

    I don’t think it’s that far-fetched. Knight was widely rumored to be the choice for Utah at #3 for much of the process. Ford had Knight ranked #5 on a big board that he says is more of a function of what people in the league think more than what he thinks. Kanter didn’t play that season and there were a ton of questions surrounding what he really was, and no one knew when Valanciunas was going to come over.
     
    I think the most likely scenario is that the Pistons had Knight in a tier with Valanciunas, Kanter and Tristan Thompson, and no matter where Knight ranked in that tier with those three players, they would have preferred the big over him if given the choice. That seems to fit everything together, does it not?

    • Jun 20, 20135:38 pm
      by Tony J

      Reply

      Definetly true. I believe Joe preferred a big instead of a PG in that draft but I hate to think what would have happened in last years draft. Would Joe still take Drummond and try to trade Monroe (or have a skilled 3 big man rotation) or would Joe then settle for a guard or SF.

      BTW I like Valanciunas and I think him and Drummond could both be top tier centers in the league. I think Drummond has a higher ceiling however but I would be just as happy with Val as I am with Andre.

  • Jun 20, 20131:08 pm
    by Thiago

    Reply

    I don’t find it hard to believe that he was #3.

  • Jun 20, 20131:12 pm
    by oats

    Reply

    There have been reports, including one from Langlois, that the trade up to 5 was to target Tristan Thompson. Add him to the list of probable players ahead of Knight, and that puts Knight at 6 if all of those guys are ahead of him. I guess it’s possible that Knight was 3, but if Langlois and Mayo are both right then it is Thompson and one other guy ahead of Knight on their draft board. That sounds unlikely to me, so I’m going to take a guess that Mayo is off on this report.

    • Jun 20, 20131:19 pm
      by Mike

      Reply

      Having Knight at #3 isn’t the same as saying the Pistons would have taken him third. Chad Ford talks all the time about teams using tier systems when it comes to drafting. It was clear heading into that draft that Dumars’ main goal was to find a big to pair with Monroe. I think it’s likely that Knight, Thompson and Valanciunas (possibly Kanter, but I can’t remember a single rumor suggesting the Pistons liked Kanter, unlike the other two) were basically rated the same heading into that draft. If they’re basically the same and you feel your bigger need is for a big, that explains the difference here.

      • Jun 20, 20131:49 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        It’s possible that you are right and that is what was meant, but it seems unlikely. Teams first grade players, then the place them into tiers, then they assign draft slots to them based on how the players in those tiers fit their team needs. I guess it is possible that when Mayo said he was #3 that he was talking about his ranking from the first stage of the process, but that he could have been taken after guys with lower ratings due to the other 2 steps in the process. The thing is, I kind of doubt that was what he meant. Mayo should be aware of the fact that most people don’t view the draft through the lens of the tier system, so saying Knight was 3rd on the board when Knight was not the team’s 3rd most desired player is pretty misleading.

  • Jun 20, 20131:36 pm
    by Keith

    Reply

    I agree with Das, Williams is probably the worst of that bunch. Knight is a relatively inefficient scorer, and not truly a PG, but he can defend well at 2 positions. Williams is an even less efficient scorer than Knight, and with little ball-handling or defensive prowess. Knight is at least a solid rotation player with several serviceable skills. Williams is the second coming of Michael Beasley – even more flawed in the second version.

    • Jun 20, 20132:18 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I’d say that depends on if contracts are being factored in. Their play is pretty identical. Knight shoots the 3 better, but Williams shoots better from the field and they have nearly identical true shooting percentages. Knight is a better defender, but he’s still only average and his defensive advantage is canceled out by being turnover prone. Knight has better per game numbers, Williams has the per 36 advantage. Knight has the hard worker reputation, but Williams has made more improvement since his rookie year. I’d call that all largely a draw. Teams are more likely to bank on the 2nd pick turning it around though, so that makes me think Williams has the higher value. But if their current contracts are factored in, then Knight being about $2.5 million a year cheaper might give him the edge anyways.

      • Jun 21, 20138:40 am
        by G

        Reply

        oats, that’s ridiculous. They’re all still on their rookie deals. This is based entirely off of when they were drafted. The contract shouldn’t even enter into the conversation. 

        • Jun 21, 20131:12 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          It’s not that ridiculous. Ok, in hindsight it was a little ridiculous. I guess I was trying too hard to come up with the argument for Knight. That money is the only justification for Knight being ranked ahead of Williams. To certain teams near the cap or the luxury tax, that $2.5 million holds more value than Derrick’s added potential as a top 2 pick. I might be overstating things since I’d give Williams the edge regardless of the contract, but someone like Chicago who is pushing the tax line with 8 players on roster for next season might disagree. I should have said that I see the contract only being a tie breaker in favor of Knight for a handful of teams. Still, teams are getting increasingly cheap with guys that they trade for, especially since there are so many teams trying to clear up cap space for a run at free agents either this year or next.

  • Jun 20, 20131:53 pm
    by danny

    Reply

    Still dont understand how anyone could of ranked him higher than Walker. 

    • Jun 20, 20132:02 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      younger, bigger, faster, more range on his shot

      • Jun 21, 201311:43 am
        by danny

        Reply

        Yeah that all sounds nice, but Walker was and is the better player.

    • Jun 20, 20132:13 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Knight was 19 and Walker was 21. More room for growth in Knight, although Kemba was actually the better PG prospect.

    • Jun 20, 20132:24 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      To be fair, Walker isn’t all that good and is basically the player that he was expected to be. Walker is an inefficient scorer, bad defender, and pretty average passer. That was exactly what it seemed was the obvious results for Walker. Knight was a bit more of a project pick. It’s the whole low risk and reward versus high risk and high reward thing. It’s always risky to take a guy with a profile like Kngiht’s and hope he can become a good point guard, but the potential reward is much higher than what Walker was ever going to give you.

    • Jun 20, 20133:05 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I’d still take him over Walker. He is worse right now. But Walker at his best is a player who can score in bunches inefficiently. Knight won’t be a star, but he could still develop into a solid starter at the 1 or 2 or else a first guard off the bench who can defend and nail spot-ups. Like a better version of Mario Chalmers.

      • Jun 20, 20133:45 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Walker was always better suited to run the point though, that was what I was trying to say.

        • Jun 20, 20133:57 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I was responding to the “dont understand how anyone could of ranked him higher than Walker”

          also, “could of” *shudder*

          “could of” doesn’t mean anything. It just sounds vaguely similar to could’ve. It is like interchanging “jumble” and “jump ball”. I don’t know how someone is capable of making the mistake.

          • Jun 21, 201310:54 am
            by G

            I think it’s more like misspelling “libary”…

          • Jun 21, 201312:43 pm
            by tarsier

            No, because it’s not a simple misspelling. It requires one to not know what the word “of” means. And who doesn’t know what “of” means? It’s one of the simplest words in the English language. It would be like not knowing what “the” means.

            They weren’t trying to type “have” and accidentally typed “of” instead.

  • Jun 20, 20131:55 pm
    by Jason

    Reply

    “It would also make the Pistons very foolish. I get that they liked Knight a lot more than a No. 8 player, but history shows he was nowhere near the third-best player in that draft.”

    Other than Irving who is a dead lock at being better than Knight IN THE FUTURE Dan?  

    I don’t get how you can come to such a strong conclusion with all the evidence we have in front of u?

    Shouldn’t we weigh factors like Knight’s intelligence and work ethic?

    Disagree stongly with your analysis and opinion.       

      

    • Jun 20, 20132:19 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Faried, Leonard, Kanter, Klay, and Kemba are all better than Knight right now. Valanciunas and Tristan are not that far behind & have shown more promise than Knight has. Knight made zero improvements on his VERY mediocre rookie season, other than maybe with his man-to-man D.

    • Jun 20, 20132:40 pm
      by Rodman4Life

      Reply

      I also disagree with Dan.  I get the whole “combo” guard and Stuckey comparisons and concerns.  But Dan is becoming a bully about things lately.  Knight is not what we had hoped for so far, but he still could  be our solid first guard off the bench, an important role for a competitive team.  But going back, in hindsight, and dragging Knight through the mud by comparing him to the other picks puts the entire emphasis on the past and his short comings.  Downer Dan probably is getting a hard-on for this season to blow up so he can feel vindicated and superior.  This tone is getting old.

    • Jun 20, 20133:17 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      “Shouldn’t we weigh factors like Knight’s intelligence and work ethic?”

      Only if they create tangible results. Who’s to say that these other picks don’t also have intelligence and work ethic? Kawhi has certainly showed a lot lately. He was the guy I was hoping the Pistons would pick. Granted, I didn’t expect Knight to be there. Shamefully, when he was, I probably would have taken him over Kawhi too. 

      • Jun 20, 20133:53 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        Knight’s “intelligence and work ethic” need to translate into actual improvement otherwise they are about as useful to the team as BK being able to cook or how long he can hold his breath under water.

      • Jun 21, 20131:03 am
        by CityofKlompton

        Reply

        Exactly. Wasn’t Michael Curry praised for his intelligence and work ethic when he was a player? Just saying… 

  • Jun 20, 20132:03 pm
    by mixmasta

    Reply

    Placing Knight on #3 does not mean that he is the 3rd best player right away. It can mean that that was how the Management  perceived the draft order would be. That time, we just had Monroe so it is logical that they are looking for another big. I faintly remember that Joe talked with Tom before drafting Knight. Their conversation was about drafting the best available since the bigs that they like are off the board. I think that was about it.

  • Jun 20, 20132:07 pm
    by Jon

    Reply

    agreed. he could end up being the worst of those ten players but he’s still younger than a lot of them so he could also end up being in the top 3 of the draft. he’s shown he can be explosive on offense from time to time. if he can just become more consistent on offense and continues to trend upward on D there’s no reason he can’t be one of the best from this draft

  • Jun 20, 20132:33 pm
    by Jens

    Reply

    At the time of the 2011 draft I thought it was a pretty good pick for the Pistons. Not a good fit, but high value at 8. Now, it indeed Looks like of the the 30 first round picks that year, there are probably just 7 guys with lesser value right row (Vesely,jimmer,Singleton, Nolan Smith,Hamilton,Juan Johnson, Corey Joseph. Although I never understood why Juan Johnson is completely out of the league right now)
    For Motiejunas,Mirotic both Morris Twins and Brooks the Jury is still out.

    It´s safe to say all other prospects have outperformed Knight significantly. I don´t base that on stats like ppg and assists alone, rather on PER, Points/min, FG% and soforth.

    So, there was obviously a reason Knight dropped and one of the Teams that didn´t get it werethe Pistons.

    And the worst chapter of all is yet to come: I Keep reading stuff like: “Cheek hire to help Knight”, “McCollum or MCW, who is the better fit for Knight?”, “Our building blocks Monroe, Drummond and Knight”….

    If they don´t get it after 2 FULL seasons they can´t be helped. I don´t vote to drop him, I just want him to obtain the role he deserves so far – and that´s a role Player off the bench. 

    • Jun 20, 20133:23 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      And people call Dan negative. Knight certainly didn’t belong #3 on anyone’s board, but he is not outside the top 20 players from his draft either. Besides looking better than Morris, Morris, Brooks, and Mirotic, how do you put Alec Burks, Reggie Jackson, and Norris Cole above him.

      Right now, his future looks comparably bright to Walker, Biyombo, Thompson, Williams, and Shumpert. 

      • Jun 20, 20133:53 pm
        by Crispus

        Reply

        Don’t dump on the Shump! His defense is great!

        • Jun 21, 201312:45 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I have no problem with Shump. I’m lumping him in with other decent prospects. But not great ones. because, like them, he has a decent floor but limited upside.

      • Jun 21, 20133:47 am
        by Jens

        Reply

        Sorry, but if I am called “negative”, please just look at Facts:

        Marcus Morris: He showed some promise at Houston, better FG% and 3pt% than Knight, jut too few Minutes to really judge him. Jury still out.

        MArkieff Morris: Pretty similar to his Brother. Hard to say he Looks worse than Knight. Jury still out.

        Nikola Mirotic: He hasn´t played a single NBA game so far and is a high Impact Player for the runner up in Euroleague, Real Madrid. He WILL flourish in the NBA. But Jury still out.      

        Marshon Brooks: I´d say slightly better as a rookie than Knight, after move to Brooklyn steep dropoff in minutes. Jury still out.

        Alex Burks: Ok, this one I ignored :-) Your Point. He didn´t improve after a disappointing rookie season although there was opportunity.   

        Reggie Jackson: I don´t know if you noticed, but he was thrown into the cold water after Westbrook went down in the Playoffs. He played an average f 33 minutes, scored 14 Points on 48% FG%, had 1,9 TOs. And that´s Playoffs, something Knight only knows from his wet dreams.

        Norris Cole: Ok, here you got another one. I just didn´t notice that this technically still was first round territory :-)

        Everything else is pretty ridiculous! Biyombo is a guy you cannot measure in PER -and that´s the only one who might have been a Little disappointing. Unlike Knight D.Williams showed REAL improvement at Minnesota. The only Problem might be he is buried behind K.Love. Shumpert i a lock down Defender for a contender, hart to compare the stats. I´d take him over Brandon in a heartbeat today. Tristan Thompson? You can´t be serious on that one! 12 pts, 9 1/2 Rebounds, 16 PER…that´s not even Close.  

           
             

           
             

        • Jun 21, 20133:50 am
          by Jens

          Reply

          Sorry for some of the spelling mistakes, Auto correct on my Computer in another language

        • Jun 21, 201310:05 am
          by G

          Reply

          How about a comparison between Knight, Brooks, Biyombo, Marcus Morris (had the better season of the twins), Jackson, and Thompson? Knight scored the most & had the highest ppg average. He shot the 3 better than everyone except Morris, but shot the 2 worse than everyone. He had by FAR the most assists. He had the most turnovers and averaged the most steals.

          If you look at the per 36 min numbers, Knight averages a SHADE fewer points than Brooks but a better ast/tov ratio. For actual production, probably only Thompson exceeds Knight. If you look at who played best in the time he was given, Knight looks less good (and Biyombo looks TERRIBLE, not sure why you were making his case).

          Here’s where it gets tricky. Knight averaged the most minutes in the group. Thompson was barely behind and Biyombo a couple minutes more behind, but everyone else played 12-19 FEWER minutes per game than Knight. Given that fact, I gotta put Knight ahead of all those guys except Thompson. Biyombo’s D isn’t good enough to make up for the lack of offense, and I need to see more from Jackson other than average production over a 9 game stretch.

          • Jun 22, 20137:24 am
            by Jens

            Thanks G, for this very differentiated approach! I don´t want to sound too much like a smart ass, but exactly those kind of comparisons are makeing the case for claiming Knight is not a better Player than the other guys. The part in this comparison where it starts getting interesting is the “advanced stats” part. And this is looking horrible for Knight! First of all , he has by a HUGHE margin the lowest “win shares per 48 min”, which is probably the most important category of those “advanced stats”. He has, by a HUGHE margin, the most turnovers/playing time and heck, he even has the worst defensive Efficiency of all those guys!
            Off course, you can argue the value of those advanced stats, but this stuff is taken seriously in most of the front offices around the NBA. Especially guys like Hollinger, but also San Antonio´s Buford or Ujiri of Toronto are reported to be high on advanced stats   

            If you are talkin about “perception” then I would argue, that Biyombo and Thompson are perceived to be beasts on the glass and defensive playmakers. It is clearly reflected in the advanced stats. By the way, Reggie Jackson even has better advanced stats than Knight during his small sample size.    

        • Jun 21, 201312:51 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I think you are underestimating Knight. Yes, all those guys display some promise. But so does Knight. His D was very good this past year. He can shoot the three very well. He makes all the hustle plays. And he shows flashes of brilliance on occasion. I don’t expect those to be the norm.

          It is hard to say anything about Mirotic. but I would definitely rather have Knight than wither Morris, Jackson, or especially Brooks. 

  • Jun 20, 20132:34 pm
    by Jens

    Reply

    At the time of the 2011 draft I thought it was a pretty good pick for the Pistons. Not a good fit, but high value at 8. Now, it indeed Looks like of the the 30 first round picks that year, there are probably just 7 guys with lesser value right row (Vesely,jimmer,Singleton, Nolan Smith,Hamilton,Juan Johnson, Corey Joseph. Although I never understood why Juan Johnson is completely out of the league right now)
    For Motiejunas,Mirotic both Morris Twins and Brooks the Jury is still out.
    It´s safe to say all other prospects have outperformed Knight significantly. I don´t base that on stats like ppg and assists alone, rather on PER, Points/min, FG% and soforth.
    So, there was obviously a reason Knight dropped and one of the Teams that didn´t get it werethe Pistons.
    And the worst chapter of all is yet to come: I Keep reading stuff like: “Cheek hire to help Knight”, “McCollum or MCW, who is the better fit for Knight?”, “Our building blocks Monroe, Drummond and Knight”….
    If they don´t get it after 2 FULL seasons they can´t be helped. I don´t vote to drop him, I just want him to obtain the role he deserves so far – and that´s a role Player off the bench. 

  • Jun 20, 20132:40 pm
    by Greg

    Reply

    My assumption for the 2013 Detroit Pistons Draftboard:

    1) Ben McLemore
    2) Victor Oladipo
    3) Otto Porter
    4) Kentavious Caldwell Pope
    5) Anthony Bennett
    6) Cody Zeller
    7) Shabazz Muhammed 
    8) Trey Burke 

    As you can see I really like KCP going to the Pistons. Perfect fit, two way player who spreads the floor, plays good defense and is very athletic. You could argue that Bennett should be in front of him but given his defensive problems and injury I´d rather go with KCP. Trey Burke for me just doesn´t fit with B. Knight who I´m not ready to give up on for now. He has all the physical tools to be a goog point guard in this league.

    I´m aware that if Nerlens Noel would be available at #8 that the Pistons would probably grab him, but he would have no place on this team becasue of the poor fit. If the Pistons choose to go Big for someone to fill out a 3-Man frontcourt rotation this player must be able to spread the floor like Bennett and Zeller can. Therefore Len is also not a good option, as is MKW who can´t shoot and is just to much of a gamble in a Draft where the Pistons really can not afford to miss out on adding another asset.

    • Jun 20, 20133:45 pm
      by Carl

      Reply

      I agree Greg, KCP would be a great fit alongside Knight.  They both can defend the 1 & 2 position and can hit the outside shot when defenses collapse on Drummond & Monroe.  Next would be to find out if Middleton is able to step into the starting SF position next year, or do we go after Iggy or Corey Brewer in FA.  I would also like to sign Jarrett Jack and have him, KCP, and Knight in our 3 guard rotation.   

    • Jun 20, 20133:48 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      KCP may be an excellent fit, but if the Pistons draft him, we are hoping for him to turn into what? A Jimmy Butler/Danny Green sort of player. You want more than that out of a guy you have 4th on your draft board, especially if you don’t already have a superstar.

      • Jun 20, 20134:01 pm
        by Carl

        Reply

        tarsier, he’s projected to be a top 10 pick on most sites.  I don’t think it would be a reach.  Would you rather take a gamble on Muhammad becoming a star?

        • Jun 20, 20138:30 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Slightly, yes, at least today. Tomorrow, I may change my mind on that. Those two are neck and neck in my books and I can see making the argument either way. Taking either one of them over Bennett, Burke, or Noel is madness though.

        • Jun 21, 201310:08 am
          by G

          Reply

          I think Muhammad gets a slight edge over KCP & you hope he starts contributing in ways other than scoring. I think this whole evaluation process has been humbling for him, and I think he’ll be willing to do more of the dirty work while he makes his bones.

          • Jun 21, 201312:53 pm
            by tarsier

            I’m pretty much with you there.

      • Jun 21, 20131:11 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Sorry I’ve tried and tried to see what u guys see in Pope, but just .if we draft him I hope am completely wrong … 

        But I find it strange that people here will look pass all his flaws, and he has plenty….*shrug*
        No handles
        No midrange game
        Settles for the 3 ball
        Can not breakdown his man
        Shy away from contact and finish at the rim
        Struggled against top competition 

        Just seems like he is being favored for all of the wrong reason…

        He has defensive potential…but physically he is limited …

        He can shoot will give him that…. anyway just get it…. 
         

        • Jun 21, 201310:14 am
          by G

          Reply

          I like Muhammad better, but lets give him the same treatment:
          - Poor handle (better than KCP, but not great)
          - Cannot break down his man
          - No right hand
          - Settled for terrible shots instead of kicking to an open guy
          - Complacent defender
          - Struggled in the 2nd half of the season

          A little short to play the 3, poor lateral quickness. 

        • Jun 21, 201312:55 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Think about it this way:

          KCP looks like a sure thing to be a valuable role player.

          Shabazz could be significantly better. He could also be a worthless player who scores, but doesn’t actually help his team to score any more and doesn’t contribute in any other way, either. 

          • Jun 21, 20131:29 pm
            by oats

            Pretty close to my rationale. I’d say the argument I use is the tier system. Those two have pretty similar grades. Muhammad has a bit more variation in his projected outcome, but not enough to move him out of the tier that Pope is in. Given that they are in the same tier, I look at who fits the needs for the team the best. I’d say the two biggest needs for a wing player on this team is 3 point shooting and defense. Pope’s 3 point shooting isn’t a ton better, but I trust his large sample size more. His defense is much better though, and that gives Pope a huge edge on Muhammad for me. That makes him the obvious pick for Detroit in my opinion.

  • Jun 20, 20133:40 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    David Mayo doesn’t always have his act together, and he makes a lot of baseless assertions. This sounds like one of them. For all the names you’re throwing around, what about Bismack Biyombo? I seem to remember them being hot for him. There’s just no way he was #3 on their board.
     
    Also, I don’t care how much younger, taller or more handsome Dumars thought Knight was. If you’re drafting a point guard, Kemba Walker should have been a very easy pick. “Good size for his position” is a nice bonus, but BEING A POINT GUARD should have been the prerequisite. Stuckey has great size too, and six years later we’re still awaiting his oh so vast potential…

    • Jun 20, 20133:52 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      What’s with the love fest for Walker?

      He’s an inefficient chucker who happened to be the best player on a spectacularly awful team. On a good team, he’d look more like Gary Neal. 

      • Jun 21, 20131:25 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        I broke it down earlier this year… And showed why Kemba stats are misleading

         

      • Jun 21, 201310:25 am
        by G

        Reply

        Walker was a better player than Knight in college. A year older, but still. Also, I remember reading a couple articles on ESPN that made the case that Walker was more of a PG prospect than Knight. Potential as a PG was the reason Knight was valued as high as he was. If you didn’t think he had that potential, his value dropped significantly. I remember draft night when BK was still available with the Pistons’ pick, I still wanted them to grab Kemba. After Irving, the players I liked the most were Biyombo, Faried, Kemba, and Leonard. Knight looked like a combo guard to me, even then.

        If Walker would basically be Gary Neal, who would Knight be? Norris Cole? 

        • Jun 21, 20131:24 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          If Leonard were on the Pistons, how good would he look? Would he be seen as a big step above Jerebko?

          For Leonard’s sake, I’m glad he’s on the Spurs. BUt I really liked him on draft night too and couldn’t believe he fell out of the top 10. 

          • Jun 21, 20131:36 pm
            by oats

            We were playing starting Kyle Singler this year. I think Leonard would be the guy putting up good stats on a bad team. Especially after the Calderon trade when he finally got a point guard who didn’t stink. He probably wouldn’t be as disciplined on getting his 3s up, but he would still score a decent amount due to being the only guy who is a good combination of size and athleticism on the perimeter.

  • Jun 20, 20133:48 pm
    by Crispus

    Reply

    Ah yes, history has never made anyone look foolish before.

  • Jun 20, 20134:22 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    In their position in 2011, my tops were
    Biyombo
    Leonard
    Faried

    following my board we would have had Leonard, and that would have been pretty good. We may not have been bad enough to get Drummond though.

    But Leonard is the only reason the Spurs are back in the Finals, and held Lebron to under 20 points 3 straight games. That’s priceless.

    This year the Pistons need to get players like Leonard/Faried.
    Pick players that produce where they are needed to produce.

    8: Porter/Burke/CJM/KCP
    13: Tony Mitchell/Kelly Olynyk
    37: James Ennis/Nate Wolters
    55: James Ennis/Carrick Felix/Erik Murphy/Andre Roberson

    Trey Burke and James Ennis  and Carrick Felix would be my realistic best case targets.
    That’s a 1, 2, and a 3 that will do exactly what you need them to do:
    Feed Drumroe, hit open 3′s and defend their position.
     

    • Jun 21, 201311:29 am
      by CityofKlompton

      Reply

      Yeah… Green & Neal dropping bombs, Parker playing out of his mind through the west finals, and Tim Duncan defying time & age had nothing to do with the Spurs making the Finals.

  • Jun 20, 20134:39 pm
    by John

    Reply

    13????

    • Jun 20, 20135:50 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      If they somehow got it

    • Jun 20, 20135:53 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      Everyone on this board is concerned about Knights lack of talent, suitability to lead the pistons. For me the biggest concern is how Drummond develops. As the season progressed, although his offense didn’t suffer he seamed to expend less energy on defense ( especially weakside help ). When Frank told him his minutes would increase returning from injury, Drummond stated publicly that he would then have to “pace” himself. When Frank heard of this he immediately said Drummonds statement is a red flag and he had never heard of a successful player who “paced” himself..

      • Jun 21, 201310:27 am
        by G

        Reply

        Frank was a tool

        • Jun 21, 201310:21 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          A tool of whom. He knew more about basketball after spending his freshman year as manager for Bob Knight then you’ve accumulated in your lifetime!

  • Jun 20, 20135:45 pm
    by Matt

    Reply

    I wonder if “3rd on OUR board” means 5th. Irving and Williams were not falling to us. Does that mean we would have omitted them or grouped 3 or 4 together after?
    I can’t help but think Knight will be fine next season but only at the point. If we get Burke or the other 2 Knight should be traded. He isn’t a SG. With Cheeks Knight should get a chance to prove himself. This year should be it though. Luckily for us if this is all he is he still has value as a cheap 3 and D player.

    A lot of teams passed on Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, and Kenneth Faried. Plus they all had better coaching and players around them. There isn’t a leader, coach, or a whole lot of talent here so Knight has been asked to do a lot from day 1. I think last season was a sophomore slump. At 21 he’s as young as half the guys we’re thinking of drafting.

    • Jun 21, 20131:31 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      That could make sense. But then you have to remove players like Blake Griffin and Anthony Davis too.

  • Jun 20, 20135:54 pm
    by Blocks by Dre

    Reply

    In other interesting news…Ben McLemore might slip out of the top 5…could make a DRUMMOND like fall to us! Not sure if anyone mentioned that or yet I’m at work so I’m kind of in a rush lol

  • Jun 20, 20136:06 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    If there  is a big enough issue for Mclemore to get past the top five then it must be very serious. If Cleveland didn’t take Waiters at 4 last year. Mclemore would have been a slam dunk to go #1.

  • Jun 20, 20139:10 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Yeah there are many reports/rumors/ concerns about Ben Mclemore, but I think he still goes somewhere in the top 5, he’s probably out of the top 3 as of right now.

    The exciting part for the Pistons is that they will most likely have to choose from: Trey Burke, KCP, MCW, Shabazz, Zeller, I have McCollum being picked up by the Kings at 7.

    It would be really interesting if Cavs shocked everyone and went for Alex Len or even with Porter (which has been rumored), forcing the Magic to consider Noel, I think Washington still goes for Otto Porter Jr (if cavs go with Len), and Bobcats then have a choice between Mclemore/Oladipo/and Bennett. I think the Bobcats go with the best player in Oladipo, Suns pick Mclemore, and Pelicans go with Bennett. Kings then can select there point guard of the future between MCW, McCollum, or Trey Burke. I think they go with McCollum/or MCW based on reports from their workouts (but not sure why they wouldn’t pick Burke, just hoping they don’t). 

    Leaving the Pistons with quite a few decisions to make. If they go with the best player it has to be Trey Burke. If they go with position it has to be KCP/or Shabazz. That’s why it would be beneficial for the Pistons to really deal with the Mavs for their 13th pick, and we could possibly get two solid players in this draft. But Joe Dumars believes there are no franchise changers in this draft (which I think he meant, there are no superstars), but definitely solid starters are available, also Dallas I believe wants a 2014 pick in return? 

    With a possibility of Trey Burke and KCP/or Shabazz, I would ship Brandon Knight/Kyle Singler or Jonas Jerebko to the Mavs for their 13th pick and obviously Marion’s contract or if they are interested in our second round picks that is also possible. Why Singler because I feel that Middleton has more potential to be a great defender and scorer then Kyle. 

    Trey Burke – Resign Will Bynum (would love to have Jarrett Jack, but why would he leave Golden State for a off the bench role with the Pistons? He would want good money and a starting job here, to consider)

    KCP/Shabazz – Stuckey (would rather have Knight then Stuckey, but if that leads us to Burke and KCP/or Shabazz then I’d let Knight go)
    Corey Brewer – Middleton  
    Monroe – Jonas/CV
    Drummond – Slava

    Really also need to look at some good back up 4′s and 5′s, just don’t see Slava as the answer off the bench, Jonas can be effective at the 4, don’t think Jason Max is gona b back either. That’s why Zeller is also a great option at 8, don’t think he’d be available at 13. 

    • Jun 22, 20134:29 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      Don’t you think that Mclemore could have gone ahead of the 3 and 4 picks and possibly the second last year? And 2012 had much stronger draft prospects.

  • Jun 20, 20139:30 pm
    by ryank

    Reply

     Bismack Biyammbo was a name linked to the team in 11.  

  • Jun 21, 20134:45 am
    by Grizz

    Reply

    If I am right about Knight .. Frank being a lousy coach for an inexperienced but very hard working … respectably talented player .. was a bad match up … Cheeks is an upgrade in knowing how a PG and an offense works … If Knight does not improve … proves me wrong ..

  • Jun 21, 20137:03 am
    by Mike

    Reply

    Dan, on another note..I can’t help but feel great about the Heat beating the Spurs in a game 7. I’m glad they felt what the ’05 pistons felt.

    • Jun 21, 20137:59 am
      by Jeremy

      Reply

      I feel like I would have rather had the Heat feeling what the 05 Pistons felt – at least it is closer to what the actual situation was back then: defending champs vying for a repeat and losing game 7

  • Jun 21, 20138:09 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    A conversation came up, and it was talking the last PG to lead its team to a NBA championship…Where the PG was the best player on the team… Isiah Thomas, you can make an arguement for Magic, but when you think average height/ weight … its Zeke… and that was during the toughest era of basketball

    If you look now, The players that Win Offensive minded players, Yes you have to surrond them with good pieces, but if the PG can either just manage the game, make some open 3′s, or even score 15ppg….

    Iverson, Westbrook, Paul , Kidd, Gary Payton, Stockton…none have titles other than Kidd getting on in his 17th year as complimentary player….Parker won with the Spurs but it was clearly Duncan team at that time…. So knight at his very BEST let imagine he becomes better or equal to Kyrie, it still wouldnt be enough.

    My Point is … It made me realize that Knight is good enough to help this team win, as long as we are not trying to make the man on this team.

    I also realize that you win through the Draft and Trades and Not Free-Agency….

    there have only been a few exceptions to this rule…over the last 20 years

    Lebron going to Miami
    Ray Allen going to the Celtics

    So looking at Free-agency this year, there are no superstar available or even very good players on the verge of being star players. We are better off saving our money, and waiting for a trade opportunity. I’d rather be not make the play-offs, than end up team thats just good enough to make the play-offs. But never a serious threat in the play-off its still medicore.

    I hope Gore, and Dumars have notice the same thing

    • Jun 21, 201310:30 am
      by G

      Reply

      How the hell did you not mention Billups?

      • Jun 21, 201310:48 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        I felt it it was more The Trade for Rasheed That put us over the top..not to diminish Billups.

        But yes, Billups was a rare free-agent signing that went pass all expectations

        • Jun 21, 201311:43 am
          by G

          Reply

          Billups was the best player on a championship team, he was the team leader, and he was the PG. So he qualifies and won more recently than Isiah or Magic.

          Parker won the Bill Russell trophy in 2007, so an argument could be made that he led the Spurs to a championship. Yes, Duncan was the best player on the team, but Parker was better in the Finals.

          • Jun 21, 20131:36 pm
            by tarsier

            I strongly disagree. Ben Wallace was the best player on that team. Billups earned his Finals MVP, but if there were a team-by-team season MVP, I guarantee Ben would have taken it.

          • Jun 21, 20131:56 pm
            by G

            Ben couldn’t play offense. They took him off the court for crucial stretches. He was the heart of that team, but Billups was the leader and the best player.

          • Jun 21, 20132:24 pm
            by oats

            I’m with tarsier. I think Ben was the best player. His offense was bad, but he was a quality passer and his rebounding was a huge part of what made the offense work. More than that, I still think he had the bigger impact on the game. He completely took over games with his defense.

          • Jun 21, 20132:50 pm
            by G

            It’s not perfect, but Billups was first on the team in win shares, both regular season & playoffs. Ben was 2nd both times. The next 2 seasons it was less close, Billups was far & away the best player on the ’05 & the ’06 teams.

          • Jun 21, 20134:38 pm
            by tarsier

            Ben’s offense is criminally underrated. He lacked the ability to shoot, not the ability to contribute offensively.

            He was explosive enough and good enough at finishing that his man couldn’t just ignore him. And, more importantly, he got tons of offensive rebounds. Those are huge. 

          • Jun 25, 201311:59 am
            by G

            Ben got ignored on offense ALL THE TIME. Any time he was further than 6 ft away from the hoop, it was 4 on 5. Ben was good at finding spaces and moving to the hoop, finishing off of an interior pass, but don’t act like he was a THREAT on offense. He was marginally better than Perkins is now.

            Billups was a) the team leader, b) the team’s best offensive player, and c) a capable defender. He also served as the team’s closer (took the crucial FT’s down the stretch) and absolutely ABUSED the Lakers in the Finals. Yeah, offensive rebounds are huge, but what about taking over the entire offense when no one is doing anything? That’s what Chauncey did. 

    • Jun 21, 20132:15 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Isn’t LeBron effectively the point guard? He runs the offense, doing most of the ball handling and facilitating. LeBron largely breaks the rules on positions since he is also a power forward and small forward at the same time, while also often defending the best scorer on the court. He completely throws off attempts at positional breakdowns, but that kind of goes to the point I want to make. You are looking at this wrong. The lesson isn’t that point guards are less important, it’s that you need to have at least 2 star players. I don’t think it matters all that much what position those 2 guys play.
       
      Also, it’s not accurate to say offensive minded players win. LeBron is arguably the best defender in the league. Duncan and Garnett also have recent wins, and they are both very good defenders. Unlike G, I think Ben Wallace was the best player on that Pistons team and he was very clearly a defensive minded player. Good players win.

      • Jun 21, 20133:00 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Ben was the second-best player on the ’04 Pistons, which still fits your theory. The ’08 Celtics were built on defense (with Garnett, defensive POY, as either the best or 2nd best player), as were those Spurs teams (Duncan has made 1st or 2nd team all defense every year), and the Rockets (Hakeem was defensive POY). 

        • Jun 21, 20134:44 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I’d give Sheed the nod for second best player on that team. He dominated Malone. Billups was third. He put up 17 and 6 while shooting under 40% for the season. He was better than those numbers, but not the best player on the team.

          Now you could definitely make a decent case that he was the best player on the best recent Pistons team, the 64-17 squad that fell to the Heat in the 05-06 ECFs. That was probably his peak season, averaging 19 and 9 while shooting 43% from beyond the arc.

          • Jun 25, 201312:09 pm
            by G

            You’re ridiculous. Billups not as good as Sheed? Sheed was a great addition and took Detroit over the edge, but Billups & Ben were the ones getting the Pistons to the ECF.

  • Jun 21, 20139:31 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Pistons should package Singler,Stuckey, and Jonas

    To get younger and more athletic….

    If we could land a player like Derrick Williams, Terrance Johnson, Thomas Robinson, Perry Jones… Then use our Pick to get more athletic or Scoring on the Wing… 

    Then we’d be on the right track

    • Jun 21, 201310:47 am
      by G

      Reply

      Why do they need to get younger? And the players you mentioned shipping out are all 27 or younger…

      I’m not even sure who you mean by Terrance Johnson (Terrence Jones maybe?), but neither him, Williams or Robinson are particularly athletic. PJ3 is a leaper, but not very agile. How about getting good players instead? That’d be my plan. 

      • Jun 21, 201310:59 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        “”Why do they need to get younger? And the players you mentioned shipping out are all 27 or younger…”"
        1. Younger 20-22 … and I also meant to say more talented

        “”I’m not even sure who you mean by Terrance Johnson (Terrence Jones maybe?), but neither him, Williams or Robinson are particularly athletic. PJ3 is a leaper, but not very agile. How about getting good players instead? That’d be my plan”"

        2. Terrance Jones (sorry they need an edit option) , and they are all more athletic than Singler and Jonas…they all have more potential than Stuckey, Singler, and onas, and they are all cheap

        In this draft we are going to draft another Wing Player(like Pope, Shabazz) and in the 2nd rd will likely draft a back up PG….

        Who are these Good players thats availalbe?

        • Jun 21, 201312:04 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Detroit was the 8th youngest team in the league last year. Of the 7 younger teams, 2 of them made the playoffs. The 9 of the 10 oldest teams made the playoffs.

          Good players available, or players better than the ones you named? Because the guys you named are all pretty mediocre so far.

          PG – Teague, Devin Harris, Jack, Paul, Calderon
          SG – Mayo, Kevin Martin, Redick
          SF – Iguodala, Brewer, Barnes, Dorell Wright, Josh Smith
          PF – David West, Millsap
          C – Howard, Splitter, Bynum
          I’m not saying the Pistons should go out and get all these guys (some, sure), but good players are available. And that’s just free agency, I’m not even going into trade possibilities. 

          • Jun 21, 20132:30 pm
            by oats

            Calling the guys I HATE FRANK named mediocre is being kind. They were all bad. They have room for growth, but none of them have demonstrated the ability to actually play productive basketball in the NBA. 

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