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3-on-3: Drafting Kentavious Caldwell-Pope at No. 8

1. Which available player should the Pistons have chosen?

Patrick Hayes: Trey Burke. Joe Dumars has never favored need over talent in the draft. I can’t find a credible draft board that rated Caldwell-Pope more highly than Burke as a prospect. It doesn’t mean Caldwell-Pope is destined to disappoint while Burke is destined for stardom. But it does mean Dumars varied from a strategy – taking the best available talent – that he’s articulated in the past. Shooting guard is certainly a pressing need, as Dumars said. But so is point guard. So, Dumars deserves to have that logic questioned. The Pistons don’t have a starting-caliber point guard on the roster, and the best point guard in the draft fell to them. Regardless of Burke’s local ties, there was a legitimate case that he was the right pick.

Dan Feldman: Trey Burke. The Pistons, like Joe Dumars said, need better wings. They also need a better point guard. Burke rated ahead of Caldwell-Pope on not only my draft board, but every credible draft board I could find. The difference between spots on those boards was usually impossible to discern, but even if the difference were marginal (and I saw it as significant), I don’t see Caldwell-Pope as a better fit, anyway, so what’s the point of reaching for need?

Jameson Draper:  Trey Burke. Caldwell-Pope was definitely a reasonable pick at this spot, but Burke thought eight was the lowest he could have gone, and with him still being available at eight, it was perfect for the Pistons, too. Figuring they don’t re-sign Calderon, Burke would have been able to fill that role very nicely.

2. How do you grade the selection?

Patrick Hayes: B. I don’t hate the Caldwell-Pope selection. In fact, I predicted they’d take Shabazz Muhammad simply because Dumars has taken plenty of risks on talented prospects with red flags in the past, and I’m relieved they didn’t. I’d talked myself into his potential just because I felt like it was inevitable. At worst, Caldwell-Pope is probably a rotation player and at best, he gives the Pistons one of the new breed 3-and-D shooting guards the league is so hot on these days. He’s not a bad pick, it’s just unfortunate he’ll forever be judged based on Burke’s success, not his own.

Dan Feldman: B-. The Pistons chose the second-best player available, which isn’t half bad. I like Caldwell-Pope a good deal, and I think his efficiency and effort will make him a relative success with the Pistons. But the top player available presents considerable more value and plays a position of equal or greater need, and I won’t get over Detroit passing on Burke until they show their games on the court this season.

Jameson Draper: A. The Pistons still have faith in Knight becoming a good point guard in the NBA, and with that in mind, they definitely had a void to fill at shooting guard, and Caldwell-Pope is the perfect fit. Unlike current Pistons Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Knight (and possible draftee C.J. McCollum for that matter), Caldwell-Pope is a shooting guard – not a combo guard— which will bode well for his development. Seeing that he doesn’t have to learn which position he needs to play, he can jump right into learning how to play shooting guard in the NBA.

3. What’s the most important thing the Pistons can do to ensure his success?

Patrick Hayes: Surround him with talent. No more Brandon Knight/Rodney Stuckey experiments at point guard. Move those guys into combo guard roles (or just plain move one or the other, preferably Stuckey), make Caldwell-Pope compete for the starting shooting guard spot with them and, if he’s successful (as he should be … it’s not like that’s overwhelming competition), immediately put him into the lineup and don’t play the games that this organization has played with young players in the past, keeping them buried behind limited veterans even when they’ve out-performed them.

Dan Feldman: Give him a chance to play with the Pistons’ best players. Once he built his confidence while playing in the second unit’s simplified scheme Drummond’s development was stagnated by the fact that he rarely got to play with the Pistons’ top players. Don’t repeat that mistake with Caldwell-Pope, who, because of his relatively rudimentary ball-handling skills, especially needs to play with Detroit’s top point guard. Don’t gift Caldwell-Pope minutes, but if he’s earned them, make sure the rotation allows him time with the rest of the team’s core.

Jameson Draper: Basically, the Pistons need to treat Caldwell-Pope in the opposite manner they tried to develop Brandon Knight. They need to keep him at shooting guard and slowly ease him into the system. By the middle of this season, Caldwell-Pope should be getting 25 minutes per game off the bench. They just can’t overly rely on him early in the season.

220 Comments

  • Jun 29, 20137:28 pm
    by zeke

    Reply

    I think that is easier to find very good pg player than very good sg. In league is maybe 10 very good sg players and about 20 very good pg.
    Pope is for me great pick, he has all the tools to become great player at both ends of the floor

  • Jun 29, 20138:07 pm
    by Pimp Zombie

    Reply

    Ppl are acting like Burke is the second coming of Chris Paul. There is a reason he was traded as soon as he was picked. The pistons could trade right now for Jameer Nelson and get the exact same player.

    • Jun 29, 20138:11 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      The reason is that Minnesota had Rubio and wanted KCP or Shabazz.

  • Jun 29, 20138:10 pm
    by Ryan

    Reply

    As I think Patrick is getting at, Dumars’ explanation of this pick is probably the most disappointing aspect.

  • Jun 29, 20138:11 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    YOU GUYS ARE NOT SHOWING ANY THING LIKE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL ANALYSIS. THEY WILL HAVE ANOTHER PG ON THE ROSTER WHEN THE SEASON BEGINS. AND WHEN YOU REALIZE IT PLEASE DON’T START TALKING ABOUT JEFF TEAGUE LIKE ATLANTA WILL GIVE HIM TO US BECAUSE THEY DRAFTED THE KID FROM GERMANY!!!!

    • Jun 29, 20138:15 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      More likely than getting Bledsoe. Less likely than Joe pointing to Knight as the starting PG and signing Maynor as a mediocre backup who Mo’s already worked with.

      • Jun 29, 20138:27 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        You really think Atlanta is going to let him go for next to nothing then hand the keys to a 19 year old who last played in the Bundesliga? Oh ok. I see. I get it now. 

        • Jun 29, 20138:31 pm
          by Pimp Zombie

          Reply

          Never underestimate the stupidity of teams looking to shed salary to avoid the luxury tax.

          • Jun 29, 20138:33 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Atlanta has as much cap space as the Pistons!!!!

          • Jun 29, 20138:37 pm
            by Pimp Zombie

            Not if they plan on getting Josh Smith back…thats a max contract that puts them right back in no mans land…but they really dont have a choice. So like I said: dont be suprised if they try to shed salary or let Teague go if the right RFA offer comes along

        • Jun 29, 20138:36 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          If the offer is strong enough, then maybe they just retain Devin Harris for a lot less while they develop Schroeder to take over. They do also have Louis Williams and could use him as the temporary point guard while they develop the youngster. Or they could make a run at one of the other veteran guys if they can get them cheaper. Calderon could be an option, and Mo Williams would also make some sense for them. The offer to Teague would need to be pretty strong, but they seem to think they are in the running for Howard and might not be willing to match an offer around 4 years and $40 million, especially if it’s structured in a way to screw up their other plans.

          • Jun 29, 20139:01 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Lou Williams is not a point guard. He has never played that position. Right now their only signed back up to Teague is Shelvin Mack. And I hope you don’t view Calderon and Mo Williams as quality points. So you think they would be ok with going in to the season with Calderon as their starter and Schroeder and Mack off the bench. Oh Ok. I’m sure the fans in Atlanta are glad your not the Hawks GM.  Look Atlanta is in a tough situation. What they really hope and have all along is that they can resign Smith at less than a max deal. The Dwight Howard thing that keeps being brought up is ridiculousness from the internet.

          • Jun 29, 201310:23 pm
            by oats

            Louis Williams played the point for most of his career. He’s not good at it, but he could serve as a stop gap at the position until Schroeder is ready to take over, at which time Williams will transition to a 6th man role. This is obviously not an ideal scenario, but the plan they seem to be running with makes it a possibility.
             
            Also, Calderon and Mo Williams are definitely quality point guards if by quality point guard you mean starting caliber guys. Calderon is below average, and Williams is just barely a top 30 guy in his position, but that is still a quality player for a temporary role while developing a younger player. This really isn’t that bad of an option if they are looking to throw their money at marquee free agents, and by all accounts they are.
             
            By the way, none of this is what I would do if I was them. I don’t think they are in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes, but they seem to. It’s a rumor coming out of their front office that they think they have a chance to land him in his hometown, especially since they could afford him and either Smith or Iggy to join him. I could also see them trying to overspend on Jennings or Ellis in the hopes that one of those guys are enticing to Howard. I kind of get the thought process, they really want to get someone to play center so Horford doesn’t have to and Howard is clearly their most likely guy to land. I think there is a decent chance they decide to take a run at Bynum after Howard ends up someplace else, but both of those scenarios puts them in a spot where they might not be able to afford to match a front loaded deal on Teague. In that case they are much better off with a cheaper veteran to take over, or even Louis Williams as an absolute worst case scenario.

          • Jun 29, 201311:30 pm
            by frankie d

            oats beat me to the info on williams.
            philly tried like heck to make him a point guard – in fact i think mo cheeks was his first coach – and he was not very  good at it.
            he does have a decent handle and he does have nice a/to ratios and could play the point temporarily, but he is not a starting point guard.
            they could always keep devin harris, though i’m sure harris is going to get a few decent offers in free agency.

          • Jun 30, 20134:59 am
            by Filo Putz

            I’m now convinced you guys are INSANE. SERIOUSLY! You want Atlanta to play lou Williams at a position he doesn’t play so you can steal one of the most promising young point guards in the NBA. Besides the fact he is the only guy who has any experience at the one on their roster.. Or your other suggestion, that Danny Ferry sign one of two guys who are over thirty so he will let him go. This isn’t funny. It’s SAD!

          • Jun 30, 201310:57 am
            by oats

            No, it isn’t what I want them to do, or think they should do. It is something that could happen though. Again, they are one of the teams meeting with Dwight. Their sales pitch is based around being able to add another player to Dwight and Horford. Teague is not that kind of guy. That means they might let him go to make a run at someone like Iggy to join Howard and Horford. I’m not saying I would do it, but they definitely could. This is very much the kind of things they have reportedly been trying to do. If they want to make  a run at Howard and another high salary player then they likely won’t be able to keep Teague as well. Are you really arguing that they would be better keeping Teague and Smith than Howard and either Smith or Iguodala? If you really believe that then you are the crazy one here. I guarantee they don’t see it that way.

        • Jun 29, 20138:51 pm
          by Worm

          Reply

          They certainly won’t let him go for nothing. But if Joe offers a deal for like 4/30 mil to him while they’re chasing Dwight Howard, it’d certainly put a lot of pressure on them to make a decision.

          • Jun 29, 20139:08 pm
            by Filo Putz

            By the way, not to say it will make a difference in signing him but Ferry got rid of Larry Drew because Smith did not get along with him.

          • Jun 29, 201310:37 pm
            by oats

            @ Worm. Front load the deal. Make it something like $13 million in the first year. Heck, I’d consider $13 million in year one and $24 million over the next 3. That’s 4 years and $37 million, which is overpaying a bit. Still, those final three years at $8 million seems like a safe enough gamble to me. I think Atlanta might walk away from that kind of offer.
             

          • Jun 29, 201311:36 pm
            by frankie d

            what portland did with mattlews, i think was made a big part of the deal a bonus payment that was due immediately.  (it may have been the millsap deal that was also structured that way.)
            but it was a very bitter pill for utah to swallow. 
            most teams don’t want to have to pay out a 5 million dollar signing bonus immediately, and i think it also did some bad stuff to their cap number.
            if someone knows more details about it, feel free to correct me on it, but i know that it was the immediate, up front money that really makes that kind of deal a real problem to match.
            i’m sure if joe is creative – and mean – enough he can come up with something for teague that will make it very difficult on atlanta to match.  especially if he does it immediately, and if smith then takes his time to come to a decision about where he will sign.  forcing atlanta to tie up a lot of money in a potential teague deal may be a non-starter, if they are trying to keep as much money as possible available for smith. 

  • Jun 29, 20138:31 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Knight will be fine at PG… if Knight struggles with the current players around him then ok, but other than that He played for a terrible coach, in a terrible system, with players who struggled as well….
    Give him a chance with anew coach, and a new system, with better talent around him

    • Jun 29, 20138:33 pm
      by Pimp Zombie

      Reply

      I’ll give you that. But a true point would have ELEVATED bums like stuckey and English. I’d say he has 30 gms this season to prove himself or else Joe will be working overtime on the trade phones for a PG….not that he isnt already

      • Jun 29, 20139:11 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        A true scoring guard will elevate a point guard. Did you ever think of that?

        • Jun 29, 201310:07 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          Again, it shouldn’t take great teammates to judge a guy. Knight was a bad point guard, even when taking into account the fact that his team was bad.

          • Jun 29, 201310:26 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            tony parker took years… to become a player that elevates talent around him
            It took Jrue Holiday time
            It took Mike Conley Time..

            And all those guys had better coaches and talent around them…

            Night had a horrible coach… And Calderon didn’t elevate NUFFIN when he was the starter…

            All I’m saying is, We now got the SG … Which gives us flexiability to move Stuckey who has more value on our team currently than any other player … 

          • Jun 29, 201310:50 pm
            by oats

            All of those guys showed basic levels of competence early on. They all hit the 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Knight is not close to that relatively low threshold, and pretty much no one who failed to hit that number in his first 2 years has ever developed into a quality facilitator.
             
            Holiday averaged 14 points and 6.5 assists, with only 2.7 turnovers in his second season. He was way better than Knight, and is a terrible guy to make this argument on. The other guys are bad arguments, but using Holiday requires you to completely ignore what he has done in his career. Why do people keep bringing up Holiday when he so obviously did way more in his first two years than any of the other so called slow development players?
             

          • Jun 29, 201311:51 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Holiday also played with much beter wing players and a coach 10 times better than Frank…

            Unless your going to argue Iggy = Stuckey and Singler and Doug Collin is = to Frank 

          • Jun 30, 201312:03 am
            by Matt

            Stuckey had a lot of o point games. When a guy plays 25+ min and goes 0-5 somethings wrong and it isn’t Knight. Plus that week he went 0 for 4 games, or his 0 for the first week. Singler never shot the ball, Drummond either. Chris Paul couldn’t elevate them. Calderone never had problems getting assists till’ he came here. Also how was Knight supposed to elevate our team off the ball? When he did play the point he just dribbled to half court and gave it to Prince or Monroe. No one really got better from last year. Not one guy benefited from last season except Bynum.

          • Jun 30, 201312:46 am
            by oats

            @Frank. Doesn’t change the fact that Holiday was still much better than him. We’re not talking about a guy who was a little better, we’re talking about a guy a lot better. Being in a better situation accounts for some of it, but Holiday was still much better than Knight currently is.
             
            @Matt. Bad argument about Calderon. He went from 7.4 assists a game to 6.6. I suspect that adjusting to new teammates on the fly accounts for some of that, but let’s ignore that for a second. Let’s also ignore the fact that Calderon passes the ball more often than Knight, which means that he probably is losing fewer assists than Calderon. Let’s say the team cost Knight .8 assists a game. 4.8 assists and 2.7 turnovers is still bad.
             
            As for the handing it off to Monroe and Prince, that kind of dismisses the reason why that happened. That wasn’t how the team was run to start the season. It happened for 2 reasons. The first is that Knight was doing a bad job running the offense so they turned to Monroe and Prince to help out. If Knight was good then it never would have happened. The other reason is that they needed more scoring from Knight. Knight is a significantly better shooter in spot up situations or receiving hand offs. That sounds like a good reason to play him off the ball more, which suggests he probably shouldn’t be shoe horned in as a point guard. Even if he does stay at the point, running the offense through other players will always be a requirement to get the most out of him. He needs to be a lot more productive to justify leaving him there though.

          • Jun 30, 20136:57 am
            by Filo Putz

            I never said knight was a good point guard. Just that their need to upgrade at the scoring positions is more urgent.

          • Jun 30, 201310:35 am
            by Matt

            @Oats
            We’re looking at Bledsoe, Jr Smith, and more surprisingly Josh Smith. That would shake things up a lot. Whether Knight’s starting PG, 6th man, or trade bait I just hope we get better. Losing every game sucks, we’re starting to feel like the Bobcats. I personally keep wavering on Knight. If we’re serious about winning now and acquire the pieces to do so Knight probably isn’t the guy since he has a lot of development to do. The rest of the team does too. Oldest guy left is Stuckey and Villenueva and they both could/should go. I don’t know about you but I’ve seen enough of both of them. If we’re still gunna suck Knight probably is the guy since we need to develop and see who’s here for the long haul and who isn’t. That’s what we should’ve done last year but we have more questions now than then.

            That’s just my opinion I’m probably full of crap but that’s why Joe runs the team and not me.

          • Jun 30, 201311:06 am
            by oats

            @Filo. I disagree. It’s really hard to get anything out of big men when the point guard sucks. Knight sucks as a point guard. He can’t consistently make inlet passes to the post, and he stinks at running the pick and roll. Stuckey is definitely better than he is as a point guard, but he is pretty bad too. The team absolutely needs to upgrade the position if they want Monroe and Drummond to be effective, and not doing so will make it tougher to figure out how well they are developing as a pairing.
             
            @Matt. JR Smith is fine, but I bet he gets overpaid. He’s kind of like OJ Mayo that way, he has a use but probably wouldn’t be a smart move. Eric Bledsoe can’t pass and doesn’t help much, although he is a defensive upgrade. I’m betting the team is interested, but I am hoping they don’t get him. Josh Smith would be asked to play the 3 and he can’t shoot at all. He’d be awful next to a pair of big men with no range. I honestly suspect that it is just left over from the fact that Dumars had been pursuing Smith in the past. Prior to the Drummond selection he made sense as a PF to come in a play defense next to Monroe. They might be interested in him, but I really hope not. I’m hoping it is just a smokescreen to make someone else push harder for him.

          • Jun 30, 201311:50 am
            by Matt

            In the 12 games bledsoe started the Clippers west 6-6. That’s definitely misleading because the starters were only a little worse than when Paul was running the show. The reason I bring that up is because during this 12 game stretch the Clippers got nothing from their bench. They went from one of the best bench units to an awful one. He affects games in other ways than just his passing. Yes his passing isn’t Chris Paul but his defense is top 4 among PGs. He gets steals, blocks, rebounds, lockdown D. His turnovers and passing should come around. You can’t just assume everyone out of the draft is a great passer. It doesn’t always work like that. Sometimes you have to develop a player to overcome that. Look at Chauncey, he wasn’t a good passer until he came here. Sometimes you just have to be patient and develop bad habits out of a player. Bledsoe’s good I actually would like that trade.

          • Jun 30, 20131:01 pm
            by oats

            But guys usually show signs of being a decent passer pretty early on. People use Billups, but he is an extreme case. He played for 3 teams in 2 years. His 3rd team never gave him a chance to even play the point. He was on his 4th team in year 5 before he got a chance to play the point again. That last year he had 5.5 assists and 1.7 turnovers a game. He clearly looked like a guy with the potential to be a good point guard in his final year in Minnesota. Billups is also the exception here. He’s seriously the only guy I can come up with who didn’t get to the 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio in his first 2 years that went on to become a good passer. He is such a rarity that it is dumb to make a projection based the logic that Billups made that kind of turnaround. The odds are just stacked way too far against it happening with any single player to bank on them using that logic.
             
            Look, I agree that Bledsoe is a useful basketball player for the right team. Any team that has a competent starter and wants a guy to come off the bench and wreck havoc on defense should want him. Detroit is not in a position to use him for that though. Detroit needs someone who can run an offense so they can get something out of their big men. That isn’t Bledsoe. I’d be willing to trade for Bledsoe while sending out Knight, with plans on placing Bledsoe into that 6th man role that Knight would otherwise be destined for. I just really don’t think that is the kind of scenario Detroit is looking at doing, and instead they would be planning to plug Bledsoe in as the starting point guard. Or if that isn’t the plan, then they would start Knight at the point. Neither of those make sense to me, and I think it would be a big mistake.

    • Jun 29, 20138:37 pm
      by ryan

      Reply

      I agree. Brandon Knight is going to be just fine and he can already defend well something that Trey Burke is always going to struggle to do.

      I don’t think you all are give Joe Dumars enough credit here. He drafted for need but he also drafted the best player available. You could make a case for gambling on Shabazz Muhammad or Steven Adams but short of that KCP was the best player available Trey Burke was not.

      • Jun 29, 20138:47 pm
        by Ryan

        Reply

        If he didn’t like Burke (who was rated higher than KCP regardless of what you think), he should’ve been on the phones to pull off a deal like the one that got Burke to Utah. What would you rather have. If he were going that route, why not work a trade for a 2nd wing in the 15-25 range so you can (a) stock up and (b) give yourself 2 chances for getting it right at 2/3?

        For those of us who far and away preferred Burke, it’s not JUST the fact that Joe passed on him. It’s that in a wild draft full of deals, he showed no imagination, settled for a player who was widely rated below our range, and started talking about “popularity contests.” Again, I hope he proves me wrong and KCP continues to drop 18 and 7 in the pros (or, more importantly the Pistons actually win 40-some games), but I’m not counting on it.

        • Jun 29, 20139:44 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          he didn’t make a trade because 2 lesser players don’t = one better player. EVER!

          • Jun 29, 201310:10 pm
            by oats

            That depends on how the team views KCP and Muhammad. If they have those two with virtually identical grades then they would be better off adding an additional pick. If they have a clear drop off from Caldwell Pope to Muhammad then just grabbing Kentavious is the right decision.

          • Jun 29, 201310:11 pm
            by Ryan

            Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins for Grant Hill.

          • Jun 29, 201310:16 pm
            by Pimp Zombie

            The fuq are you saying? Lesser players get traded for stars ALL THE TIME. Its called making trades for salary reasons or fear of losing players in FA for NOTHING.

            Who did Orlando get for D12? Who did Memphis (Marc Gasol LATER becoming a star, notwithstanding) get for Gasol? Or Denver for Carmelo? PORTLAND FOR SHEED?

            I rest my case. 

          • Jun 29, 201310:54 pm
            by oats

            He’s not saying that teams don’t make those deals. He’s saying that the team that trades the star almost always loses the deal.

          • Jun 29, 201311:43 pm
            by jacob

            Also the NBA only allows so many roster spots, and just let me say this and I will probably be repeating myself on other posts. If teams don’t think they can compete this year or are trying to rebuild…. Listen to this… they will tank and try to start tanking as of july 1st. People see Lebron and think oh man if we suck so bad this year we can get wiggins. Also teams over the cap will be selling guys for nothing. Not too many people no matter how rich they are want to pay double for their players.

          • Jun 30, 20135:10 am
            by Filo Putz

            Wow  Dumb. You must be lawyer to try and sell that argument. If you thought Muhammad was the better guy you take him If you thought that Pope is the better guy you take him. But you’re saying that you take 2 guys who you don’t value as highly as the guy you wanted over them. Is this fun for you????

          • Jun 30, 20135:19 am
            by Filo Putz

            Didn’t hear Dumars say he was worried minnesota was going to trade up to get him???????

          • Jun 30, 201311:14 am
            by oats

            Let’s put their grades in terms of 1-100 to make this clear. If Pope rates at 90, and Muhammad at 80, then take Pope. If Pope rates at 90 and Muhammad at 89, then you trade down for Muhammad and someone else. It’s not just who ranks higher, it also matters how much higher Pope ranks. If there is not a significant drop off from one prospect to the other then there is no real benefit in just getting the one guy.

        • Jun 29, 201311:57 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          when ray allen was drafted, this is what happened.
          milwaukee was drafting 4.  they drafted stephon marbury because they knew that minnesota wanted marbury desperately.  marbury was supposed to be kevin garnett’s boy, which is truly ironic considering how things turned out there.  
          then minnesota drafted ray allen and traded allen to milwaukee for marbury and milwaukee picked up a number one draft choice in the exchange.
          imho, that is the kind of trade joe d should have made with minnesota.  he should have been able to pull off something like that.
          apparently, minnesota wanted KCP badly.  if joe had drafted KCP and held him hostage, extracted something from minnesota – one of their later draft choices; didn’t they have 2 first rounders? – then you could have had burke, and a later second round choice to get a wing player.
          after watching kevin pritchard work draft days here in portland for years, it is truly sorry to see joe d sit on his fat arse every year and refuse to do anything but sit and take what he gets.  he was in a golden position to do a lot of maneuvering and to set his team up beautifully, and instead he sat there, lazily, and simply reached for a “need” pick. 

          • Jun 30, 20135:12 am
            by Filo Putz

            Dumars didn’t want Burke. He wanted Pope!!!

          • Jun 30, 201311:22 am
            by PG

            He didn’t draft KCP because the Wolves wanted him. He drafted KCP because Dumars really wanted him not Burke. Hence the smoke screen. He wanted to show the wolves he has no interest on KCP.  

  • Jun 29, 20138:32 pm
    by AYC

    Reply

    Does anyone honestly think that Trey Burke will be any better than the PGs available in 2014 and 2015?  Why lock ourselves into Burke?  Give yourself flexibility moving forward to pursue whoever.  Burke is not a franchise-changing talent.   

    • Jun 29, 20138:39 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I said it earlier, but Detroit likely won’t have a pick in 2014. If things go according to plan then the 2015 pick shouldn’t be a lottery pick. Yes, I think Burke is better than future non lottery picks.

      • Jun 29, 20138:44 pm
        by Jon

        Reply

        Burke wasn’t even the best PG in this years draft.  Let alone 2014.  McCollum in my opinion is a better point guard for three reasons.  They pretty much have the same weaknesses in their game, but McCollum is bigger and understands the game at a level Burke probably won’t get to until he’s in the league for some years.

        • Jun 29, 20138:49 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          No, McCollum doesn’t. McCollum has never shown any skill as a passer, and never really had to read a defense in his career. Burke is very clearly better at running an offense right now, and it isn’t close.

          • Jun 29, 20138:57 pm
            by Jon

            Burke can pass the ball and he can hit the deep 3.  Yes, but so can McCollum!  McCollum didn’t have anybody to pass too!  He carried that team, that’s why the ball wasn’t being passed.  Look at Burke’s team then look at McCollums.  It’s not even a fair comparison.

          • Jun 29, 20139:37 pm
            by oats

            That’s not really true. Lehigh is better than you give them credit for. The 3 leading scorers on Michigan after Burke scored 14.5 points, 11 points, and 11 points a game. The 3 leading scorers on Lehigh after McCollum put up 13.9 points, 13.2 points, and 11.9 points a game. They had guys that could score against the competition they were facing. McCollum had enough talent that if he was a good passer he would have put up decent assist numbers. He didn’t, and that very strongly suggests that he just isn’t a good passer. I may be mistaken, but the actual evidence suggests that Burke is just a much better passer than McCollum.

          • Jun 30, 201312:02 am
            by frankie d

            @ oats
            i will get a chance to watch mccollum cause i live in portland and follow the blazers as my second team.
            it will be very interesting to see how he turns out.
            i think he’s going to have a very good year and that he will make a lot of teams, including detroit, look very bad for bypassing him.
            we shall see….
            i have to say that while i would have wanted the pistons to draft either mccollum or burke, at least i’ll get a chance to see mccollum regularly, and i’ll get a chance to see burke play often also, as he’s in a western conference division and the jazz and the blazers have a very intense rivalry building.
            (utah hates portland because portland has been trying to steal their players for years now.) 

          • Jun 30, 201312:26 am
            by oats

            Enjoy McCollum. He should look good as a 6th man. If the shooting this year wasn’t a fluke then he could be Jamaal Crawford with a better dribble penetration game. I like him as a player, I just really don’t like the idea of trying to force him to be a point guard when he has shown so little as a passer. I think it’s a good thing for him that he ended up there because Portland will put him in a position to succeed.

        • Jun 30, 201312:09 am
          by Jon

          Reply

          please give me the evidence that mccollum understands the game better than burke does right now. burke routinely beat some of the best defenses on the ncaa with both passing and scoring, all while not turning the ball over very much. mccollum had much higher TO rates than burke against weaker competition… I liked both mccollum and burke a lot but to say mccollum has a better understanding of the game is unreasonable

  • Jun 29, 20138:36 pm
    by Jon

    Reply

    Joe does not have faith in Brandon Knight becoming a point guard.  You say that because he drafted a SG?  Really, perhaps Joe just thought Trey Burke isn’t as good as he’s hyped up to be.  I watched his games and I didn’t see greatness.  All I saw was a chip on his shoulder, which is good, but how coachable is that sort of attitude?  Especially from an NBA prospect who couldn’t even crack the top five in a weak draft, not to mention our own coaching troubles over the years.  Yes, Trey Burke has got some ego issues that will be sorted out, but not with the Pistons.  GOOD MOVE JOE D, because truth be told, KCP can shoot the lights out and can run the floor.  He may not be an all star yet, but he is an awesome role player.  That’s what a team is about, everyone playing their role.  Also, I don’t give a flying crap if we don’t have a point guard next year.  I’m looking forward to next years draft.  Next season is going to be horrible for the Pistons and Joe D will probably be fired, which is sad, but we will be drafting an all star next year for sure.  And more than likely it will be a PG.  PRAYING FOR MARCUS SMART OR WIGGINS!  And one more thing, no team wants any one on our team except Drummond and Monroe.  So don’t expect any trades unless it’s to clear more salary cap space for next year.

    • Jun 29, 20138:43 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      The team finished with the 8th pick in 2011, the 9th pick in 2012, and 8th in 2013. Are you that convinced the team will be in the bottom 8 next year? The team just added a guy you think is an awesome role player and has a ton of cap space. Even minor improvements in terms of free agency or trades likely costs the team it’s draft pick next year.

      • Jun 29, 20138:48 pm
        by Jon

        Reply

        That’s why I said don’t expect any trades and I’m pretty convinced that Calderon won’t be returning to a team that’s not a contender and Joe D isn’t going to try to lock into signing a PG unless he is a star.  Period.  And next years draft is going to be so deep, they’ll be stars available at ten.  Believe it.

        • Jun 29, 20139:00 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I disagree on that. First of all, I’m hardly convinced Calderon is only going to go to a contender. Nothing he has said or done suggests he is chasing a ring. Some guys just want to find a place they like playing and make a living there. He could be one of those, and he might like the idea of playing with Monroe and Drummond. I also think the team will likely make a run at other guys. Mo Williams, Jarrett Jack, Jeff Teague, and even Brandon Jennings seem like strong possibilities to be pursued at least. Even if they don’t add an obvious starting PG they could still get better by adding a starting SF and Pope. Especially since this is the kind of year where teams actually tank for draft positioning, and Detroit steadfastly refuses to do that.
           
          The team also has assets to make trades. The ability to absorb contracts or send out expiring contracts is a serious trade asset. Singler has some value due to his small contract. I don’t think Singler actually lands someone good, but he might be a nice add on to a salary dumping deal. Knight would be an even better asset for that kind of scenario, although I don’t know if Dumars is willing to do something. The point is it isn’t hard for Detroit to improve enough to lose the pick.

          • Jun 29, 20139:14 pm
            by Jon

            The only PG I like somewhat that you mentioned is Jarret Jack.  Somewhat.  I also like Jarryd Bayless.  But those guys aren’t going to lead our team to a ring.  No, PG out there right now will.  Besides Chris Paul and that ain’t happenin!  But why would we make a trade to absorb more salary cap space when we have so much already?  And I think Calderon is liking someplace like the heat a whole lot more right about now.  They’re talking about not being able to bring back Miller.  Can you imagine Calderon running that offense?  Certainly for the next few years, no one else will win any rings.  and I don’t like any SF out there either.  This years free agency stinks.  It’s just better to let things play out til next year I think.  Because we are not making the playoffs next year.  We are not better than NYC, NETS, HEAT, PACERS, CHI, PHILI, CAVS (WITH A HEALTHY VARAJOA), ATL, BUCKS, OR TORONTO.  Pretty much out entire conference.  So we’ll make that lottery next year and grab a star!!!!!  lol.

          • Jun 29, 20139:17 pm
            by Ryan

            Plus Stuckey’s and maybe even Villanueva’s expiring contracts become assets sometime around January (if not sooner under the new CBA).

          • Jun 29, 20139:28 pm
            by oats

            We’d be using our cap space to absorb their bad contracts. That cuts into our cap space to free it up for them. So the “But why would we make a trade to absorb more salary cap space when we have so much already?” sentence tells me you completely misunderstand what I was saying. We aren’t adding cap space, we are using it up to help land someone useful.
             
            You also are arguing about those guys not getting the team a ring. That’s not how teams build. It’s not an all or nothing situation. The first step is always to make a bad team good. Once a team does that they try to make moves to take that next step. It’s not what kinds of moves you would make, it’s what to expect from Dumars. Dumars and Gores have both made it clear that they want to make a run at the playoffs sooner than later. The most likely scenario for Detroit by far is to get someone that gives them a chance to slip into it right now.
             
            It’s not like it’s hard to catch those teams. Cleveland might be better if they are healthy, but Kyrie never is and Verajao has been a bit injury prone. Milwaukee is pretty bad and might lose one of the Jennings and Ellis back court, if not both. Toronto is just bad and could easily be surpassed. Atlanta depends on how their free agency goes, but if they lose Smith without adding Howard then they might not be any good. Philly was pretty bad last year, and we have no idea if they get a healthy Bynum or not. It won’t take much to surpass some of those teams, especially if Drummond makes any progress as a player at all. The odds of Detroit finishing in the 10-12 range are really good, and they have a decent chance of getting that 8th seed.

          • Jun 30, 201312:08 am
            by frankie d

            watched both jack and bayless here in portland.  
            neither is a PG i’d want as a starter.
            jack would work better simply because he is a better ballhandler/distributor, while bayless is basically a  microwave-style gunner.
            jack is a nice player to have off the bench, but if he is your starter, you will always want someone better.  he simply looks for his own offense too much.
            bayless is even worse.  when bayless was a young player, portland tried to make him into a pg.
            didn’t work.
            while he’d have these incredible scoring binges, he just doesn’t see the  floor.
            he’s like rodney stuckey with 3 point range.  
            i’d pass on both those guys, unless you were bringing them in as a 3rd guard.  they’d be very deficient if you were trying to make a starter out of either. 

  • Jun 29, 20138:37 pm
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    Trey Burke fell to Detroit, and Dumars went with someone else. I suppose ticket sales aren’t a major priority for this team. I hope Gores/Dumars show the same lack of disregard for the team’s bottom line when spending on free agents this summer. 

    • Jun 29, 20138:40 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      Trey Burke won’t be selling any tickets when he gets shut down in the league.  Trey Burke reminds me of Kemba Walker, just slower.

  • Jun 29, 20138:46 pm
    by oats

    Reply

    He reminds me of Kemba Walker if Walker was a really good passer and had better shooting numbers. That should be interpreted as he doesn’t really remind me much of Kemba Walker.

    • Jun 29, 20138:54 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      Dude, you are in for a rude awakening when Burke hits the NBA.  Burke’s surrounding cast is what made him what he was at Michigan.  Nobody wants to hurt this kids ego by saying things like that.  Especially this early, but that is what I believe.  Take Mitch out of Michigan’s line up and Burke was horrible!  Every time!  I just don’t trust him in the NBA and I think it was a good move by Joe.

      • Jun 29, 20139:12 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        That’s factually inaccurate. It’s pretty easy to check up on because McGary was used sparingly this year. Burke averaged 20.2 points and 6.7 assists in games where McGary played 15 minutes or less. It seems really unlikely that he did all of that in those 15 minutes that McGary was playing in.

        • Jun 29, 20139:22 pm
          by Jon

          Reply

          Post your resources!  Because according to my eyes, he played horrible when Mitch was out.  Even still, Burke had an all star cast surrounding him.  Which boosted his stock.  OH, everybody was slobbering all over Anthony Davis, MKG, and Jones.  They were great in college.  Came over into the nba and got a wake up call.  I’m just saying, Burke’s stock is as high as it is because of his surrounding class.  And it was dropping leading up to the draft.  At one point Burke was ranked number 2, until he started having individual work outs with teams.

          • Jun 29, 20139:40 pm
            by oats

            Then your eyes or your memory is failing you. I’m looking at game logs. It’s not hard to do this. McGary played less than 15 minutes in 12 separate games, and in those games Burke played roughly the same as his season averages. McGary’s presence on the court is not a strong indicator of how well Burke was playing.

          • Jun 30, 20131:18 am
            by Jon

            so let me get this straight. you don’t think Davis or MKG will be good in the pros? and you think that bc they didn’t absolutely dominate in the first season of their lives where the talent around them wasn’t far beneath their talent level? i hope you become a GM so that i can read funny jokes similar to those made of kahn by bill simmons during your tenure. players don’t become instant all stars as soon as they join the league. that’s not how it works in the nba

      • Jun 29, 20139:19 pm
        by Ryan

        Reply

        Haha an anti-Burke argument (by Jon) based on Mitch McGary! That’s high-quality entertainment.

        • Jun 29, 20139:34 pm
          by Jon

          Reply

          Is it that funny Ryan?  Good to know I’m entertaining around here!  I’m not anti-Burke.  I don’t think he’s the best choice for a rookie starting PG for the Pistons.  A team that’s on it’s fourth Coach in like 5 years.  A team that has discipline issues and has lost almost all of it’s respect around the league.  Detroit is a laughing stock right now.  How do you expect that to pan out with Trey Burke’s ego?  Man, Trey thinks he’s the greatest and he should!  I’m not knocking him for any of that!  But, what if he’s benched?  What if he’s not starting like he think he should?  Just saying, his attitude I think clouds his judgement a lot.  And you can see that in his game. 

          • Jun 29, 201311:51 pm
            by jacob

            I had a feeling for a while that Burke would not be our choice even if he fell. Reasons, not a good defender, smaller, not athletic enough, we are trying to win sooner rather than in a few years(if burke ever develops), we are planning on signing or trading for a bigger better pg, burke will really struggle against athletic bigger defenders, even if it isn’t the other teams pg.

      • Jun 30, 201312:15 am
        by Jon

        Reply

        you are sooo wrong. mitch didn’t even play for the first 20 games of the season and burke was just as good then as he was at the end of the year.

        i’m not sure burke is going to be a great player in the league but the way you talk about him he doesn’t even belong in the d league… you must be an msu fan. that would make your posts make more sense 

    • Jun 29, 20139:17 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      You’re right they are dissimilar. Trey Burke will be attempting to carve out an NBA career and KEMBA WALKER IS COMING OFF AN 18-6 SEASON IN THE NBA. i CAN’T BELIEVE WHAT SOME OF YOU GUYS WRITE ON THIS BOARD. 

      • Jun 29, 20139:47 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        I’m talking about them as pro prospects coming into the league. It’s not hard to understand that. Burke is a stronger prospect than Walker was.

        • Jun 30, 20135:27 am
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          You are certifiably crazy!

          • Jun 30, 201311:16 am
            by oats

            You apparently are a troll.

      • Jun 30, 20138:53 am
        by hirobeats

        Reply

        I ain’t even mad at you homie. This is why I stopped posting on this site. Fan’s that are just (somewhat understandably) bitter, impatient and spoiled from our glory days, and seem to think that they can do a better job managing an NBA team than the people who have studied it for their whole lives, and get paid to do it. They thinking they can do it without the insider knowledge, without the years of experience to evaluate talent, without the knowledge of what it truly takes to determine whether talent translates to the NBA. Instead they rely on advance statistics (which admittedly are helpful sometimes), watching the games, and the word on the sports blogshpere. And if this Draft told us anything, its that these tool are not enough to accurately predict what happened in that National BA. Set back, let Joe D do his job, he fails he’ll be gone, so those of who hate him, no worries. 

        • Jun 30, 201311:18 am
          by oats

          Reply

          Are you arguing that fans have no right to have an opinion, or that they just have no right to express it? It’s definitely one or the other.

          • Jun 30, 201312:18 pm
            by hirobeats

            I never said anything that implies either. My point was that all of our opinions are uninformed, and we should take ourselves less seriously when comes to speculating things like this. We can say what we want, and think what we want. But when the comments start sounding like we know better than all the professional management who is privy to information that we aren’t, and we start bashing the organization for making a decision that we just don’t like… it gets tiring. Thus, I stopped participating (with the exception of writing this post). This isn’t an attack on you necessarily, but there are PLENTY of people on this site who are guilty of it. 

          • Jun 30, 201312:44 pm
            by oats

            Your argument is that fans have no insider knowledge, so any criticism they give is worthless. I disagree with that sentiment. It doesn’t take an expert to question the moves of experts. I know I’m an amateur, but that doesn’t make me wrong. I think I was pretty clearly right about a lot of things, and pretty clearly wrong on a lot of things too. The point of the comments on a site like this is to have a place to discuss things and share opinions. If I disagree with a decision the team makes then I will make my arguments about why I disagree with it. You are suggesting that I shouldn’t even make them though.

          • Jun 30, 20131:10 pm
            by hirobeats

            I don’t disagree with that brother oats. I just think we get a little to worked up about these things, because honestly, in the grand scheme of things… our uninformed fan based opinion is worthless in the sense that it has no bearing on the decisions the team makes. Its fun to debate these things, but when it gets out of hand, I have to remind myself of that point, we are only fans. 

  • Jun 29, 20138:59 pm
    by JJ

    Reply

    Everytime I decide to give this blog a chance, I read the commentary and decide it against it. A bunch of bitter UM fans who likely never watched KCP play decide unanimously that Burke shouldve been the pick? LOL. 

    • Jun 29, 20139:02 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS!!!  PEOPLE ARE HATING ON THIS GUY AND THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS KID IS CAPABLE OF!  I’m with you JJ.

      • Jun 30, 201312:22 am
        by Jon

        Reply

        you’re the one hating on burke. hardly anyone has said anything bad about KCP. everything i’ve read suggests pistons fans are excited about having him. I’m a UM fan and i like burke a lot but i also think there is a good chance KCP will be a better player overall. the main reason there is so much talk about how good burke is on this specific post is because you feel the need to bash him for some unknown reason. go count the posts on this board, a whole lot of them are balancing out your idiotic statements about how bad burke might be

    • Jun 29, 20139:15 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      If this was just a homer thing then explain why pretty much everyone had Burke rated higher than Pope?

      • Jun 30, 20135:31 am
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        There you go again!!!! We know for certain Detroit and Minnesota didn’t have Burke rated higher than Pope!!!

        • Jun 30, 201311:29 am
          by oats

          Reply

          Not relevant to my point I’m making here. He’s arguing this is bitter U of M fans being upset that their boy wasn’t the guy. The reason for being upset is that we had Burke rated higher than Pope. That’s a reasonably stance to take considering most draft experts had him rated higher than Pope.

          • Jun 30, 20134:31 pm
            by Filo Putz

            You shouldn’t take seriously all the mock drafts and media driven talent evaluators. Pick very carefully who you rely on for talent evaluation. To cite as the basis for opinion, guys like Pelton and ford from ESPN, both are not credible. Ford at least tries to gather information from the real experts within the NBA as the basis for his opinion. The problem is no one within the community takes anyone within the media seriously. Besides the fact that they wouldn’t share their real thoughts with anyone outside their own team for fear other teams will no their thinking going into the draft.

          • Jun 30, 20135:40 pm
            by oats

            I disagree on the claim that they aren’t credible. Those 2 are contemporaries of John Hollinger, who recently was poached by the Grizzlies. Apparently people in the league think that these media guys you think are so worthless know something. Ford is more reporter than analyst, but Pelton’s statistical analysis is generally pretty well thought of and makes him pretty darn similar to Hollinger that way.
             

        • Jun 30, 20133:24 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          We don’t know Minn had Pope rated higher than Burke.  No one thought Burke would possibly fall to them.  They have Rubio though and like some of the teams that picked before the Pistons he doesn’t make a lot of sense when you have a young point guard to whom you are committed.   In any case, we have no idea whether Minn would made the same trade involving KCP if they were able even though they were supposed to want Pope.   There is just no way of knowing.   I truly believe Burke’s draft position had more to do with several teams having a young point guard and that being the ninth pick was not an accurate reflection of where he fell in the pecking order.   

          BTW: I can only hope if by some miracle that if Nerlens Noel had fallen to the Pistons that Dumars would have pulled the trigger on the Jrue Holiday deal but that’s another thing I have no way of knowing.   Right now I hope that Dumars is desperately searching for a point guard but for all I know he wouldn’t drafted any point guard at eight because he is committed to Brandon Knight.   

          • Jun 30, 20134:45 pm
            by Filo Putz

            Well if Minnesota didn’t want Pope, then Dumars spent the night previous to the draft worrying about them jumping over the Pistons to get him for no reason.

          • Jun 30, 20135:44 pm
            by oats

            Even if they wanted him more, that isn’t the same as having him rated higher. They have Ricky Rubio, so they have no need for a PG.

          • Jun 30, 201310:43 pm
            by Max

            I’m not sure if I made my point clearly before but I was trying to say that since Minn had no notion that Burke would be available, we don’t know whether they wouldn’t have still drafted him over KCP if both were available due to liking the trade they got more.    They probably did want KCP but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have changed their plans if someone dropped as the Pelicans probably did when they had the chance to draft and move Noel.  

    • Jun 29, 20139:25 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Cherry picking comments? There’s pretty significant love for KCP and pretty nuanced pro-Burke comments on here. You seem to identify trends about as well as Joe does.

    • Jun 30, 201311:44 am
      by PG

      Reply

      I agree with you JJ. And I think Burke was rated higher than KCP was because of hype. Remember before the NCAA finals Burke was projected as a late lottery to mid first rounder. After he won the NPY (national player of the year) and the end of the finals his stock immediately jumped from mid 1st round to early lottery. Why? Because of hype (and homerism from fans). I think KCP was the right choice. Solid perimeter/3pt scoring and defense (he’s a very good rebounder too)  which the Pistons really lacked. We can get a point guard  from free agency  anyway but to get a solid sg we had to overpay for them.

  • Jun 29, 20139:26 pm
    by DoctorDave

    Reply

    1. Ben McLemore. Are you telling me the Kings wouldn’t have taken either of our 2nd rounders to trade down one spot? Boo on you, JoeD.
    2. B+. KCP is a way above average pick. Not quite Ben McLemore, but second best 2guard in the draft. He fills a BIG need.
    3. KCP needs a PG. The Pistons have big $$$ to spend this summer; it had better net them a good PG, because KCP will need it. Note to Mo Cheeks: Don’t Drummond KCP. Let him play with the big boys as soon as he’s earned it.

    • Jun 29, 20139:28 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      Man if we get a really good quality PG somehow, we will be on our way.

    • Jun 29, 20139:35 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      FUNNY STUFF

    • Jun 29, 20139:49 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      1) I’m telling you that, yes. They almost certainly had McLemore rated well above everyone else on their board and would have traded down for just a second round pick. The fact that you want to do it is why they wouldn’t.

      • Jun 29, 20139:49 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        would not* have traded down.

        • Jun 30, 20138:34 am
          by DoctorDave

          Reply

          Hey, Oats,
          Let me expand a little, then. How about #8 and both second round picks? Or #8, both second round picks, and Kyle Singler? The point: from the Pistons perspective, this deal should be done; and I don’t think the “sweetening” that may have been necessary would hurt the Pistons going forward.

          • Jun 30, 201311:33 am
            by oats

            They probably wanted McLemore as badly as you do. If they are anything like me, the see McLemore as clearly one of the 3 best prospects in the draft. They have an oft injured Marcus Thornton, and Tyreke Evans is a restritcted free agent. They had no certainty in their back court. I don’t think they were making a move out of that spot for just 2nd round draft picks, and that includes Singler. I’m betting it takes either a future first or Brandon Knight, and that’s a very different trade. McLemore was the last of the top tier of players, and I think they just really wanted him there.

  • Jun 29, 20139:26 pm
    by Jon

    Reply

    They play two different positions.  Burke plays the most important position in the game, he is essentially the leader of that team.  While, Pope is naturally more of a role player because of his position.  I don’t believe Pope is that much better than Burke, but I do believe that for his position, he’s a better prospect than Burke in this draft.

    • Jun 29, 20139:36 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      can you back up what you just said. Is this what you were taught by the coach on your middle school team?

      • Jun 29, 20139:40 pm
        by Jon

        Reply

        Awesome, I guess I’m not the only entertainer on this blog!  lol.
         

      • Jun 29, 20139:41 pm
        by Ryan

        Reply

        He’s been throwing out wildly random stuff all night. It’s been pretty fun to watch.

  • Jun 29, 20139:27 pm
    by ffz

    Reply

    can we at least be supportive of our own players??god d***!

  • Jun 29, 20139:27 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Kevin Pelton of espn.com did a statistics-based analytical ranking of the draft prospects, and came up with Pope as the 3rd best prospect in the entire draft, and Burke as 7th. I’m not saying he’s right, but this certainly suggests that drafting Pope over Burke did not have to be the result of a drug-addled fantasy, but is in fact justifiable on the merits.  
    Why it’s worth all this angst, I have no idea. KCP looks like a great player – or at least as close as this draft had available.  Yeah, the team still needs a real PG, but who knows? Maybe JoD and Calderon already have a handshake agreement on a new contract. 
     

    • Jun 29, 20139:34 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Come on, guys! Forget about the past 5 years! One analyst for America’s premiere sports news service ranked KCP ahead of Burke by measures that Joe probably didn’t even pay attention to! Plus, in spite of reports that Calderon is waffling about coming back to the US and his struggles with the team last season, let’s just assume that he’ll be back and that’ll net us a few more wins so we can hand our lottery pick to the Bobcats next year! I just can’t understand the angst!

      • Jun 29, 20139:44 pm
        by Jon

        Reply

        Which is exactly why Joe D isn’t bringing in a PG!  Knight is going to try and fail.  And it will be sad, but we’ll be in the lottery next year!  I don’t want a PG, I hope we lose this year so we can start fresh around Drummond, Monroe, and KCP.  Everyone else on our roster is replaceable. 

        • Jun 30, 201312:28 am
          by Jon

          Reply

          this is the one thing i agree with you about on this board. i very strongly hope the pistons try knight out for one more year with good talent around him and singler starting at the 3. if knight succeeds and becomes a top 15 pg, great, there’s the starter for the next ten years and the path to contending is not far off. if he doesn’t, great, they’ll probably be right back around 7 or 8 and have a chance at smart, harrison, wiggins or parker, all of whom will put the pistons on the fast track to contending again. either way i’d be happy with the season

        • Jun 30, 20134:17 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          The problem is that Drummond will start this year so the Pistons will be improved and won’t have a pick next year.

    • Jun 29, 20139:38 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      Haven’t read it but if it didn’t have Mclemore #1 it’s worthless.

      • Jun 29, 20139:52 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        He had McLemore outside the top 10 if I remember right. He was well behind Pope in the rankings.

        • Jun 30, 201311:43 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          I thought you had Mclemore in your top 3 prospects. You mean you’re going against your exalted statistics Guru?

  • Jun 29, 20139:47 pm
    by JJ

    Reply

    CJMcCollum was the #1 rated PG prospect in the draft, the fact that ppl are crying over Burke and not CJM makes it incredibly clear that this isn’t really about talent level at all but about hype. Get over it. 

    • Jun 29, 20139:58 pm
      by Jon

      Reply

      I didn’t know that, but I believe every bit of it!

      • Jun 29, 201310:05 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        Well, that’s probably because it isn’t true. Burke was almost universally rated first, with MCW being the guy most likely to beat him out. McCollum was usually rated 3rd.

    • Jun 29, 201310:12 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Actually Burke is the one who was drafted based on his accomplishments and McCollum was the one drafted due to hype.   How good was McCollum the year before he played all of his 12 games last year and put up numbers much better than before that could be totally illusory due to the small sample size?   Burke was the best player in college last year, won the player of the year award and was almost universally ranked ahead of KCP and McCollum in this draft.   

      • Jun 29, 201311:11 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        ED”Obannon, Adam Morrison, Jimmer were the best players in college to…

        People He won player of the year because the talent in college basketball has drop off soo much….

        Runner up was Otto Poter who projects as a good role player…. And Doug Mcdormentt who is currently ranked in Chad 2014 prospect as the 30-40th best player in the country … 

        I don’t care what Trey Burke does as a pro, I want him to be the best he can be… Still doesn’t mean he fits in Detroit if the plan is to use Knight 

      • Jun 30, 201312:01 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        Tyler H. from UNC won that award hahaha. He’s a joke in the nba. College is completely different form the NBA. I think KCP projects as a better NBA player. Let us get over this and move on to free agency, where we will find a better pg than burke. Joe D isn’t stupid. Really he isn’t. Knight might even be a better pg than Burke. Right now he probably is just on experience and never really had a chance to be one under Frank. OR Joe D thinks knight is more of a Jason Terry type and goes out and gets rondo Bledsoe or someone else. I don’t think calderon is coming back. Joe is talking about getting more athletic and being able to DEFEND multiple positions.

        • Jun 30, 20132:50 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          Thanks for the sane post. This sight has been taken over by loonies.

  • Jun 29, 201310:01 pm
    by Jon

    Reply

    Well, nice discussion guys.  Burke is the next Austin Rivers if he doesn’t change his attitude.  And look forward to next year, the Pistons will be just fine!

    • Jun 30, 201312:33 am
      by Jon

      Reply

      his attitude?? you are literally the only person i have ever heard mention his attitude in a negative light. he’s a team player with a chip on his shoulder from being constantly overlooked his whole playing career. he wanted to go the nba after his freshman year but was told what areas he wasn’t good enough in. he worked extremely hard throughout the year to fix those areas of his game and as a result was a lottery pick instead of a second rounder. that’s about as good an attitude as one can have, you just enjoy hating on him for some reason

  • Jun 29, 201310:10 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

     
    This is RIDICULOUS! I don’t really know why everyone gave up on Brandon Knight !!! Please just use your brain and think for a little.
     
    Knight didn’t have any chance to improve and was put in a position not to succeed.  In his rookie season there was a lock out and he didn’t play a full season at the PG position. Not only that but he also wasn’t a full time PG. By that I mean when Stuckey, Bynum or even Prince were on the court, they controlled the ball most of the time.  Same for his sophomore season, for the first half the same thing happened. When these guys were on the court they controlled the ball. And for the second half we traded for Jose Calderon and Knight never played the PG position after. In addition, we didn’t have any shooters around him and we had a crappy coach who did nothing to help him.  
     

    • Jun 29, 201310:16 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Yeah, it was his teammates and coaches that led his struggles to get the ball up the court and propensity for throwing the ball three feet away from intended targets into the crowd.   It’s also Will Bynum’s fault that he showed an actual ability to run pick and rolls with Drummond and throw accurate lobs.    Brandon Knight is more comfortable catching a lob then throwing one but it’s nobodies fault.  

      • Jun 30, 201312:03 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        @max, knight didn’t play with Drummond. Bynum did.

        • Jun 30, 201312:23 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          They both got a chance to early on. Eventually he started playing almost exclusively with Bynum because Bynum played well with Drummond, which is kind of the point that was being made.

      • Jun 30, 20132:32 pm
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        Yes! Teammates and the coach had a big affect on Brandon. And the other big reason is that he never had a chance to improve. As I mentioned above! If you think about it Knight barely played 100 games at the PG. He missed 20 games from the lock out and injuries and missed almost 40 games when he was playing the SG position. So let’s see and he only played 100 games and didn’t even play the position full time ( read above for explanation). So do you think he played enough to judge him. The answer is no. Brandon deserves another chance running the point guard position with the new coach and new teammates.

    • Jun 29, 201310:20 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      And btw:  Who are the great teammates and coaches that have thus far made guards like Kyrie Irving and John Wall look so much better than Knight?   Why has a guard like Isaiah Thomas looked so much better on the most dysfunctional team in the league? 

      • Jun 29, 201311:32 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        John Wall rookie year he played with Nick Young in the backcourt …and before you say anything … that Nick Young Averaged 44% shooting 39% for 3′s and 17ppg …. Better than anything Knight played with in the backcourt

        • Jun 30, 20133:19 am
          by Max

          Reply

          So Nick Young is the reason John Wall is John Wall and not having Nick Young is the reason Brandon Knight is Brandon Knight?   Gotcha.  

          • Jun 30, 20138:03 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            “” And btw:  Who are the great teammates and coaches that have thus far made guards like Kyrie Irving and John Wall look so much better than Knight?   Why has a guard like Isaiah Thomas looked so much better on the most dysfunctional team in the league?”"

            Stay on topic, the point of making is Wall didn’t even have a GREAT teammate or and we can argue about Flip saunders coaching …. But Nick Young Help Wall out a lot and so did the system…. Isaiah Thomas of the Kings, played with more talent than the pistons when it come to SG/SF

            My arguement for Knight, give him another season.

    • Jun 29, 201310:20 pm
      by Mo Cheeks

      Reply

      BK, if you’re gonna be the next Westbrook, you can start by not talking about “Brandon Knight” in 3rd person.

      • Jun 30, 201311:58 am
        by PG

        Reply

        Omg. Even our new coach hates knight. lol

  • Jun 29, 201310:32 pm
    by D_S_V

    Reply

    I wish Joe didn’t trade away a conditional first round draft pick despite the fact that the Pistons have a dearth of basketball talent. I hold out hope that perhaps the cap space can be used to shed someone else’s contract and accept a first rounder in return, but then, we could’ve just saved the hassle and kept Gordon around from the beginning!

    • Jun 29, 201310:38 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Shouldn’t a team have some veterans though?   How many years do you want to look ahead to the lottery and look past the next season to be played?   

      • Jun 29, 201310:44 pm
        by D_S_V

        Reply

        Personally, at least as far as next year. To me there is no excuse for giving away a first round draft pick when you have as little talent as the Pistons have. 

        • Jun 29, 201311:16 pm
          by Matt

          Reply

          Good point next years draft is supposed to be good and we do still suck. Maybe we’ll all be more enthusiastic after July 1. I do want to ask though, every year it’s this draft sucks next years is the good one. People always say that, like this year is a bunch of Kwami Browns and next year they’ll be passing out LeBrons like Oprahs running the draft. Next years gunna come and that years gunna suck and next year they’ll be the stars. Has anyone seen anything not from SC that tells you next years draft will be that good? Remember if Sportcenter had their way Football would be the only sport, we’d pray to LeBron, and Tebow would be in the probowl.

        • Jun 30, 20133:28 am
          by Max

          Reply

          The perception of the Pistons having so little talent ignores how talented Drummond and Monroe are and how potentially devastating just having those two might be.   The two best players on last year’s team barely got to play together but when they did the results were much better.   When you consider that the team just added a lottery pick and is in position to sign a max player, I have no patience for the idea that the team can’t turn it around big time this upcoming season–even though Dumars already screwed up the coach.   

      • Jun 29, 201310:45 pm
        by D_S_V

        Reply

        And if you want veterans, I think Damien Wilkins is still available for $500/game. (ba dum, ching!)

        • Jun 30, 20132:40 am
          by frankie d

          Reply

          Ahhhgggrrrr!
          The very mention of wilkins makes my blood boil! 

    • Jun 30, 20133:10 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      Couldn’t agree more. 2 different philosophies. !1) Build through the draft for your foundation and player trades 2) Utilize trades and free agency with the draft as more a crap shoot not to be relied on for real contributors.  Both have a history of working but I prefer building  through drafting then trading the guys who don’t meet your expectation. Free Agency really scares me. Usually you have to overpay and make a long term commitment that will set the franchise back a long time if the signing doesn’t meet your expectation. If you try to trade someonesigned in free agency, since the salary cap era and now even more so,with the luxury tax increasing, teams won’t take a player who might help in a lesser role because his salary level would be slotted for a higher level guy.

  • Jun 29, 201310:43 pm
    by Blocks by Dre

    Reply

    so…are the U of M fans still butt hurt or can we move on? You would think Burke was the best player in the draft (a very weak one at that) by some of the reaction. KCP fits a need and while he wasn’t a popular or “sexy” pick, he fits a need more. We can go after a PG in free agency and maybe take a chance on working out a trade to get the PG we need. I still think Knight deserves one more shot since we have a coach who may be able to help him. 

    By everyone’s reaction, you would think we passed Burke up for Jeff Whitey…give it a rest guys! 

    • Jun 29, 201311:04 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I don’t get what this is based on. For the most part the level of complaint seems to be pretty low. Most of the comments are along the lines of saying that KCP is fine, but there was a better player on the board and the team passed on him. I’m really not seeing that much of an over reaction here. I’m not seeing much of anyone arguing that Burke is the best pick or that Pope was even a bad one, just that Pope was not the best pick. That seems like a pretty reasonable complaint given the fact that most every analyst rated Burke ahead of Pope.
       

      • Jun 29, 201311:28 pm
        by Blocks by Dre

        Reply

        I wish I could introduce you to my Facebook wall…that would explain where this rage I seize me is coming from. That and pretty much every KCP video on YouTube is pretty much “what about Burke?!?” And don’t even get me started on Bleacher Report…

    • Jun 30, 20134:14 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Would you really be so shocked if Burke does turn out to be the best player from this draft?  I wouldn’t be.

  • Jun 29, 201311:17 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Cody Zeller and Carter-williams were ranked higher than Pope….

    So if the Pistons took Zeller or Carter-williams over Pope…

    People would be complaining about that …saying we needed a Shooting Guard / Wing player

    Just 2 weeks ago people were really to overpay for OJ Mayo … Because of the need for offensive weapons….

    I didn’t have pope ranked higher than Shabazz, but I certainly had the Need of SG / Wing player ranked over a PG (who is being overvalued) 

    • Jun 30, 201312:13 am
      by oats

      Reply

      First of all, straw man alert. Secondly, it isn’t a good one. Those guys weren’t as universally ranked ahead of Pope the way that Burke was. Burke was almost unanimously ranked ahead of Pope, but Zeller and MCW only sometimes were. Burke was also usually ranked ahead of both of them, so there is a matter of degrees thing here. It’s a smaller drop off from MCW to Pope than Burke to Pope, assuming you even had MCW ranked over Pope. I actually rated MCW lower than Pope though.

      • Jun 30, 201312:59 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        So why did Ford have him falling so far on his final mock drafts?

        • Jun 30, 20131:20 am
          by oats

          Reply

          Mock drafts are not player ratings. He heard rumors that Burke was sliding a bit because teams were looking at other things. Also keep in mind the need of these teams. Charlotte and Phoenix have point guards. New Orleans has Vasquez and just drafted Rivers last year. Sacramento needs to figure out what to do with it’s entire guard rotation. Detroit was rumored to be interested in MCW or getting someone who drops. He also had Bennett dropping. Minneosta, Portland, and OKC have point guards already. Dallas was rumored to want a guy they could stash in Europe. That’s how Burke drops in a mock draft. In actuality Utah can’t afford to risk someone else moving up for Burke and moves up to get him at 9. But Ford doesn’t usually project trades in his mock drafts because they are too hard to predict.

  • Jun 29, 201311:27 pm
    by Gordbrown

    Reply

    I understand the Stuckey hate to a point. But lets get real. His stats were a horror show last year it is true. But then again, he was buried on the bench and criminally misused by the worst coach in the league. (In fact, I think Cheeks can have success just by doing the opposite of anything that Frank did). Two years ago, Stuckey was no worse than the third best player on the team and he was an asset and not a liability. Just last season, he picked up the team and carried them on his back single handedly for almost a month at shooting guard (playing with a point guard with a bad habit of giving the ball away for no particular reason that anyone can see) and the team was showing progress. On those occasions when when called upon to play the point Stuckey was the best point guard on the team (that included J. Calderone whose D is awful). Put Stuckey in as the point with a better cast than he has ever enjoyed (a big with soft hands, what a concept) and that solves a problem. Use the FA money to bring in the best three you can get (preferably through trade as free agents available suck) that solves another problem. Quit trying to push square pegs into round holes and that solves a whole myriad of other problems. Talent has not been the problem with this team. Before they went into tank mode last season, they blew out Portland, Philadelphia and Boston and beat Miami. A losing attitude fostered by the coaching carousel has been the biggest problem. Again, please Mo Cheeks remember that it’s now opposite season. As far as Burke goes, he was a great great College player. However, his particular combination of skills and liabilities (as demonstrated in combine testings) has been proven not to translate all that well into the NBA game. Finally, to say that advanced stats are irrelevant to Joe D’s decision because he has never used advanced stats before as I saw up thread is just completely ludicrous and reaching at straws.

    • Jun 29, 201311:44 pm
      by Gordbrown

      Reply

      Part of this is that trading Stuckey as if he were Gerald Wallace or outright releasing him (as some beat reporters are suggesting) is a mugs game. You can never get for Stuckey value post-Frank that the Pistons can get out of him as a reclamation project.

    • Jun 30, 20133:38 am
      by Max

      Reply

      I agree with you.  I’m not that down on Stuckey and would actually prefer him as the starter and Knight as the sixth man going forward if they can’t get a great point guard.   The names people are suggesting are not great point guards.   I’d rather spend the money on a huge offer for Iggy and let him be a bit of point forward.   I know the team won’t have great shooting but they will be big, they will protect the ball, they will be great defensively and they will be a ferocious rebeounding team.   

  • Jun 29, 201311:29 pm
    by Javell

    Reply

    Kcp will be a SUPERSTAR PLAYER… Mark my words.. I dare anyone disagree he has the potiential 

    • Jun 29, 201311:47 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      if he puts it all together…and I mean all together ….I see a Paul George Type

      • Jun 30, 201312:12 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        A month a ago I started looking around at prospect for Detroit. Not for who is the best overall talent or whatever they go by these days. After the lottery was determined I thought KCP. Oladipo was #1 to me. Porter #2. Then KCP. Honestly if he reaches his potential he can be better than both of these two. He can shoot. He hustles. He plays D. He is a big 2 guard and can guard multiple positions whether it be the 1 2 or 3.

    • Jun 30, 201312:19 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I disagree wholeheartedly. Then again, I see maybe 10 superstars in the league at any time. That’s being generous on the superstar label if you ask me. KCP does not have the potential to be a top 10 player in the league.

      • Jun 30, 201312:09 pm
        by PG

        Reply

        He never said he will be a superstar. He said he will be better than Oladipo or Porter if he reach his potential which I agree whole heartedly. While Oladipo is a better defender KCP is a way much better shooter and scoring instincts. Porter will be an ultimate glue guy.

  • Jun 29, 201311:37 pm
    by Safwaan

    Reply

    KCP is rated higher by the best analytical source i have found. James Brocatos metric is incredibly accurate as he explains here http://shutupandjam.net/2013/05/24/draft-model-update/ his rankings have KCP marginally ahead of burke, but in a position where we needed athletic wing shooters to compliment our bigs KCP was not only a better value but a better player, however the argument can be made the MCW would have been the best pick and that is who i believe we should have taken as he slots as the third best player in this draft and ranks significantly ahead of both burke and KCP. Also he would have been able to play with knight if knight was moved to the 2 and would be able to feed the bigs even if his shootign never came along. However I dont fault Dumars and KCP was a very good pick much better then the cavs choosing bennet or the suns and bobcats passing on Noel
    Brocatos rankings for this years class can be found here http://shutupandjam.net/draft-rankings/ 

  • Jun 29, 201311:45 pm
    by Gordbrown

    Reply

    Cody Zeller might have been the worst reach of anybody drafted but by comparison to Shabazz he will look like an all-star.

  • Jun 29, 201311:47 pm
    by DTOWNPAPA12

    Reply

     
    This is a simple question. Why year after year do we sit by and watch doo doo Dumars screw up the Pistons. The man hasn’t made a descent pick since his playing days and even then his offense was suspect. How do you continue to believe this team will ever get the talent and skill to contend with the likes of a MIAMI or a CHICAGO or a BROOKLYN. Hell even the Cavaliers look better on paper than we do. I got a news flash for you. Fire Dumars, hire a new team manager and get a new coach. Start from scratch. Get a sure fire top talent. Lower your cap space. Draft the young talent which will surface over the next 3 to 4 years and try to stack up on draft picks through trades of the substandard group of players you currently have on your present roster.
     

    • Jun 29, 201311:51 pm
      by Gordbrown

      Reply

      Stop shouting and learn to spell, troll
       

    • Jun 30, 201312:06 am
      by Matt

      Reply

      Well if it’s that easy?

    • Jun 30, 201312:14 am
      by jacob

      Reply

      What an idiot. Probably just ran out of cocaine and got mad.

  • Jun 30, 201312:14 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Took Jeff Teague 3-4 seasons…. 

    • Jun 30, 201312:21 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Took Mike Conley about 4 years to average over 5aast … 

      • Jun 30, 201312:54 am
        by oats

        Reply

        The problem isn’t the assists totals per se, it’s the assists relative to his high turnover rate. Knight gets about 1.5 assist per turnover. Conley was at 2.5, and Teague was at 2.2. That’s a better indicator of whether the guy can turn into a good point guard than assist totals. Those guys also played fewer minutes than Knight in their first two years. They both broke 5 assists per 36, but Knight hasn’t yet.

        • Jun 30, 20138:10 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          they were allowed to play PG, both had better talent around then and better coaches. we can go around in cirles forever.

          I always say in the 3rd year you will find out about a player  

          • Jun 30, 201311:46 am
            by oats

            PG’s almost always show a basic level of competence by year 2. I think that if they don’t show that basic level of competence in two years that there needs to be an extreme explanation for it. I’m talking playing for 3 teams in 2 years like Billups did. Knight has had a single coach. Frank is a below average coach, but he isn’t terrible. His teammates weren’t good, but that doesn’t change the fact that he can’t dribble or throw an inlet pass. Knight’s situation just doesn’t rise to the level it would need to for me to think it is worthwhile for the team to bet on him turning it around. The odds are so heavily against Knight that I think the team should be looking for a long term solution at the position right now. At a minimum the team should get a veteran who can start there while Knight learns to play the position from the bench.

  • Jun 30, 201312:19 am
    by p

    Reply

    Who are Burke’s reasonable NBA comps? His size, athleticism, combo guard mentality lends itself to a 6th man/impact sub role. KCP is a starting 2 because he can shoot from distance and defend. The better pick depends on a team’s needs, if they either have a starting 2 already or need a high usage starter Burke might be better, but for the Pistons it’s KCP. 

  • Jun 30, 201312:23 am
    by Grizz

    Reply

    “I hate Frank” and “Brandon Knight” .. Absolutely agree.. Knight will play much better this season .. with a decent HC who knows PG .. SG in Pope will open up everyone’s game … Perimeter D with Knight and Pope gets much better … Having Drummond as a starter changes everything for the better too … Frank is an idiot who would not even play Drummond … nor did have an offensive system that worked . Even Calderon couldnt make a go of it .. Looking forward to a much beter team in 2013 2014.. Go Pistons ..

    • Jun 30, 20133:34 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      What makes you think Cheeks will be any better than Frank?   I certainly don’t.  

  • Jun 30, 201312:25 am
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    There have been sources/reports saying Pistons are interested in trading for Bledsoe as well as Toronto and Orlando (who has taken a step back).

    We have a lot to offer the Clippers in terms of freeing up some cap space so that they can resign CP3 and get another FA. We can do this by taking up Caron Butlers contract and perhaps giving them Siva/Singler, or Kim English/Siva, maybe a future draft pick. 

    Bledsoe adds to the athleticism that Joe Dumars so heavily focused on during his press conference and justification for his draft picks. He also adds speed, defense, and his passing has improved learning under CP3 and Billups. I think it would be a great addition, Knight can play his natural role of coming off the bench and SCORING for us! I really hope this pans out, because Bledsoe is much better then Trey Burke at this point of his career. It would address the need at PG, we would have a crazy athletic backcourt in KCP and Burke, we’d also have a solid rotation with Drummond/Tony Mitchell. Really hope the raptors don’t win this won. 

    • Jun 30, 20131:05 am
      by jacob

      Reply

      That would be good or taking Gerald Wallace Lee and Rondo for Stuckey Singler and a future pick. I’m sure that boston will be looking to rid itself of Wallace’s contract now. Also if they are really rebuilding then they will be in tank mode this season. With Rondo Wallace and Green they will probably make the playoffs, so maybe they unload Wallace and Rondo.

    • Jun 30, 20131:11 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Bledsoe’s passing really hasn’t improved much. He went from 3.6 assists and 2.4 turnovers as a rookie to 3.1 assists and 1.8 turnovers in year 3. He’s a little bit better, but not significantly so. He’s also not a significant improvement on Knight as a passer. He gets 1.7 assists per turnover this season, versus Knight’s 1.5. I really don’t get the whole Eric Bledsoe at point guard thing. I’d rather just stick with Knight considering he’s 2 years younger. I also think I’ve made it pretty clear that I don’t like the idea of sticking with Knight. I like Bledsoe’s defense, but I want someone who can at least competently run an offense.
       

      • Jun 30, 20131:52 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        @ oats. who? I think the only way for Bledsoe is for stuckey. Teague? My choice would be Rondo Wallace and Lee for Stuckey Singler and a future pick. I want to keep Knight as a sixth man for sure.

        • Jun 30, 201312:10 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I am nervous about Rondo’s lacking a jumper. It’s hard to score when 3 starters have no range. Especially since he is coming off a major injury and is a player who relies heavily on his athleticism. Then again, some guys add a jump shot while rehabbing because it’s the only thing they can really work on. He is probably worth the risk because the kid can play, but he is a big risk. He also might not be as available as people seem to think. That team is clearly blowing it up, but Rondo is both young enough and good enough to be the focal point of the rebuilding effort. They might not be letting him go. There also should be competition for his services, and Boston might not want to wait until 2016 to get that draft pick from Detroit.
           
          Other than Rondo, Teague would be good. He’s been improving each year and is already a solid starter. I think I have Calderon as my second choice. He can run the offense for a couple years while the team tries to find a long term solution. I’d be ok with making Knight the back up point guard in the hopes that he starts to turn it around. If Knight shows signs of development then the team can try expanding his role in the future. If he fails then they can find a different young point guard later. Greivis Vasquez might be available, but I hate his defense and shooting. Jarret Jack could work, but the team would be better if they could transition him to a 6th man role pretty quickly. Mo Williams is another stop gap guy, as is Devin Harris. There are options here.

    • Jun 30, 20135:41 am
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      Now this is a worthwhile post!

  • Jun 30, 201312:28 am
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Reported on ESPN:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9436953/toronto-raptors-join-talks-eric-bledsoe-los-angeles-clippers

    Reported on Freep: http://www.freep.com/article/20130627/SPORTS03/306270134/Detroit-Pistons-join-other-teams-interested-in-Clippers-Eric-Bledsoe

    Hope it works for Detroit, also I hope we waive Stuckey freeing up the guard rotation, and more minutes for the new draft picks, plus Khris Middleton who should start at the 3 instead of Singler (unless we sign someone in FA). 

  • Jun 30, 20132:22 am
    by sam

    Reply

    dont forget the pistons are trying to get bledsoe which they have a good chance on getting since paul is resigning and the clippers cant afford him

    • Jun 30, 20131:52 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      Haha! there’s a crucial piece of info missing there- Toronto’s & Orlando’s packages are better, even if Joe were willing to include KCP (which would really make him look like an asshole to the fans).

      • Jun 30, 20133:20 pm
        by Filo Putz

        Reply

        Toronto doesn’t have the cap space detroit has to take caron butler off their hands. They’re saddled by both Bargnani and Rudy Gay. Orlando’s interest reportedly has diminished. 

        • Jun 30, 20134:11 pm
          by Ryan

          Reply

          Wait, so you’re the one who thinks there’s no way in hell we get Teague from Atlanta, but you think Masai Ujiri can’t convince Doc he wants DeRozan that badly, AND you think Orlando just says “never mind” and we end up with Bledsoe? You sound like the guy on here who wants to wait for Paul George… Glad you’re not at the helm (though maybe you would be better than Joe).

          • Jun 30, 20134:57 pm
            by Filo Putz

            I love DeRozan. And I saw that report of him being offered. BUT it makes no sense cap wise!! Me personally I would pay the Luxury tax to get him . Just not sure if LAC is capable of absorbing another 4-40 contract. that’s all.. I’m just saying it is reasonable to assume that it’s a realistic possibility.. Not like the crazy Teague talk.

          • Jun 30, 20136:59 pm
            by Ryan

            Well I think we can agree that both are pretty unlikely.

          • Jun 30, 20138:52 pm
            by Filo Putz

            No we can’t agree. Theo chances of getting Blesdoe are much more realistic than getting Teague. But hey the fun of it is that both are possible just different odds.

          • Jul 1, 201312:57 am
            by Ryan

            OK, so we’re likely to get Bledsoe now. Fascinating. Not believable in the least, but fascinating.

  • Jun 30, 20137:26 am
    by DG

    Reply

    Exactly what I was thinking:  Pope and Kravtsov for Bledsoe and Bullock.

  • Jun 30, 20138:47 am
    by Terrell

    Reply

    These people must be fortune tellers.. Kcp was a win win situation. You get offense and defense. I believe that you couldn’t go wrong with either guy. Does anyone know if calderon is signing back? No! So how can you pick between the two. Detroit still can be in play for rondo, bledsoe, jennings….. Not many true basketball minds out there no more huh?  Screen shot this!!!!!!!!! By mid season everyone with have faith in joe dumars basketball mind

  • Jun 30, 20138:58 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

     http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306290049

    Vincent Goodwill gets it …

    If we can get a serious upgrade over Knight, I’m cool with it. But if not, Knight is still only 21 years old, who has not been give a real chance to suceed. PERIOD

    Let’s not make everything so deep … Burke isn’t a fit 

    • Jun 30, 201312:00 pm
      by Matt

      Reply

      Yes that’s my feelings exactly. Knight is 21 with potential. Maybe if he’s put in a better position to succeed he will but we can’t overlook a real improvement. If one falls in our lap we have to take him.

    • Jun 30, 20131:49 pm
      by Ryan

      Reply

      That’s what Patrick said 2 days ago.

    • Jun 30, 20133:29 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      The positions of most need for upgrade is the 2, the 3, a rotational 4-5, a lights out shooter off the bench who will alter defensive rotation that opponents use when the starters are in, and maybe a lockdown disruptive defender. After those needs are met then I would look for an upgrade to the point guard position as a priority.

      • Jun 30, 20133:38 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        So it’s more important to work on your bench when you no one in the starting lineup can adequately dribble and the only decent passer is your starting center from last year.   Gotcha.  

        • Jun 30, 20134:00 pm
          by Filo Putz

          Reply

          It’s called building a contender! Unless you have someone like Tony Parker improvement in other areas will get you closer than a marginal upgrade to the point guard position

          • Jun 30, 20134:10 pm
            by Max

            You don’t need a star PG.  Before the Spurs won titles with Parker they won a ring with Avery Johnson.  I think Burke is much more than a marginal upgrade over Knight but even if he is just marginal, if that improvement was enough to resemble competency–I’ll take it.   

  • Jun 30, 20139:25 am
    by Terrell

    Reply

    I think we all forget that Joe took a rookie (tayshaun), a journeymen (chauncie), a nobody (Ben), a  one trick pony (rip), and mr tech (rasheed), and got a title………WAIT!!!!!!! Against kobe and shaq!  But anway, I think joe should trade monroe! I don’t think he’s a good fit with drummond. He about to get a payday soon and maybe you can dangle him for rondo…..or maybe a sign and trade with jennings…….yeah maybe sign and trade with jennings and a 2014 draft for monroe and stuckey or monroe and knight(don’t matter) think jennings did average 6 assists a game last season and we got the max money. Would rather be weak at power forward than point gaurd

    • Jun 30, 201310:00 am
      by Corey

      Reply

      I wouldn’t fundamentally object to trading Monroe, but I’d want way more than Rondo with a torn ACL.

  • Jun 30, 20139:43 am
    by A. Engnell

    Reply

    Hey Mr. Feldman, I DISAGREE. I think they made the right pick, and I wanted trey Burke but I know KCP, easier than saying his full name, is the best fit for Detroit. We needed a wing player and that was taken, so we get a shooting guard. Brandon Knight then moves to play point guard instead of shooting guard where he struggled. Now I’m not the biggest Brandon Knight fan, but the Pistons haven’t given up on him. Anyway trey Burke is short and that worried a lot of scouts. They were able to get a point guard, Peyton Siva, starting point guard from Louisville, in the second round. Detroit overall had a great draft, even though this is considered one of the weakest draft classes in recent memory. Next years class is already suppose to be better, hope they do absolutely terrible next year and don’t go on a three game win streak at the end of the season. Another reason why you should want the pistons to fail next year is because your favorite GM A.K.A President of Basketball Operations, dumb title right?, Joe Dumars, is in the last year of his contract. Now the owner may or may not be swayed by the opinions of the people, but if he fails this year, there’s no reason to keep him. But what Detroit needs to succeed is 1 trade Rodney stuckey. No point in keeping him now that we drafted a shooting guard. Plus he’s inconsistent. 2. Don’t use the money they have this off season on any free agents. This is just like when Ben Gordon was signed. There are a bunch of middle level entry players around and it’s not possible for Detroit to get a big name like Chris Paul. Detroit doesn’t appeal to any superstar. 3. Amnesty charlie villenuva, probably not how you spell his name but who cares. This guy needed to go a LONG time ago. He hasn’t been productive since he’s been here and Detroit can still amnesty him. Believe it or not he had less trade value than Rodney stuckey. 4. Sign all drafted players and focus on developing them.like I said before this was a good draft for Detroit. It’s important though to mold this group of young talent so that they can be the best possible. Even Andre Drummond is in this phase. Speaking of Drummond here’s my final point. 5. START ANDRE DRUMMOND!! How many times did we say this to Joe dumars last year? Anyway, it makes no sense for the Detroit pistons to keep their best player on the bench, you didn’t see Michael Jordan start a game on the bench. They do however have to figure out to work Greg Monroe into this. So there you have it: KCP was a good draft pick.
    Tell me what you think about my review,
    J Hop

    • Jun 30, 20133:41 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Stuckey is a better point guard than Knight and a better shooting guard than Knight.  

    • Jun 30, 20133:41 pm
      by Filo Putz

      Reply

      Oh so much to comment on here but I don’t have the time. First of all from day 1, Monroe was a power forward playing center. He has already proven that his abilities match up with the best power forwards in the league. Kinda like a bigger version of Zach Randolph.. I am much more concerned with Gores meddling from his distant mansion in Beverly Hills than I am Dumars. Look Dumars doesn’t have the track record of say Red Auerbach in the draft, trades and signings but no other current gm save for maybe Pat Riley does. And for Riley it was what he did in Free agency that overshadowed the others aspects of the GM job.

  • Jun 30, 201310:15 am
    by Terrell

    Reply

    Maybe rondo and 2014 draft pick….it is the wiggins sweepstake next off season

  • Jun 30, 201310:23 am
    by brgulker

    Reply

     Trey Burke. Joe Dumars has never favored need over talent in the draft. I can’t find a credible draft board that rated Caldwell-Pope more highly than Burke as a prospect

    I wrote about 2 of them on DBB. You may not like stats as much as I do, but that doesn’t mean thou get to write them off completely ;)

    • Jun 30, 201310:24 am
      by brgulker

      Reply

      One was wages of wins. The other was APBR…polar ends of that statistical spectrum. :) Also Pelton thought highly of KCP didn’t he?

  • Jun 30, 201311:12 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    It’s hilarious how people believe in BK who hasn’t proven anything at Pg but hate on Trey who has proven every pg skill there is. 

    I like the KCP pick, But Burke is just as good, it’s really just a matter of preference. 

    ANd the Burke  haters  are going to learn a big lesson next year though, he’s  one of the best pgs to come out of college in a while

  • Jun 30, 201311:40 am
    by Terrell

    Reply

    Riddle me this people if trey was the better prospect wouldn’t some one who knows him personally know? Look, if joe didn’t take him we didn’t want him. His son play with him. You need a point gaurd fot your big men, also you need shooters to stretch the floor. Maybe joe is planning for smart next year or have a trade he’s disscusssing

  • Jun 30, 201312:20 pm
    by ffz

    Reply

    haven’t any of you guys noticed that under Lawrence frank all our duards eitherstayed the same in terms of talent or got worse, I’m just going to blame it on him cause none f them improved that’s for sure.

  • Jun 30, 20131:55 pm
    by Ryan

    Reply

    Wake me up when we start getting trade rumors (not reports of “strong interest”).

  • Jun 30, 20135:00 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    THANKS FOR DRIVING HOME MY POINT WITH THE AVERY JOHNSON CITING!

  • Jun 30, 20138:19 pm
    by Filo Putz

    Reply

    Here we go I guess. A whole industry has sprouted in sports around statistical analysis. That much is true Things like WAR in  Baseball . MONEYBALL. but this is a different sport. Of Course statistics have meaning. But the context  of how the statistics were produced by the individual player is perhaps more important than the statistic itself. You don’t hear anymore buzz words phrases like he’s a team guy. he changes the pace of the game, chemistryguy or energy guy or pressure player or disruptive defender, like before. And the reason for this is an emphasis on pure statistical analysis. While I’m not trying to totally dismiss dissecting statistics, the real problem is judging the context of how those statistics were produced within the framework of the players that the individual has around him. These are things that can only be evaluated by actually watching a guy play and then making subjective judgements on how his skill would translate if the he had different guys around him. If he is a scorer, how would he do if he played on a team with another scorer. If he was rebounder, how would he perform on a team with another good rebounder. These are evaluations that have to be made by watching what he does on the court and forming a judgment on probability of success if he played with a different players with different skill sets than the ones  that he’s currently generated his stats. A good example of this might be to look at 2 guys who put up great stats but would never be cogs on good teams. Reggie Theus and Gilbert Arenas.

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