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Andre Drummond gives hope despite another perilous lottery

NEW YORK – As I stepped into a crowded Good Morning America Times Square Studio after the NBA lottery, other media, observers and official team representatives had already flooded the floor. It was difficult to even walk without following a single-file stream leading toward the center of the crowd.

In the scrum, the first face I clearly saw belonged to Andre Drummond. The 6-foot-10 center towered above everyone near him, using his wide frame to clear space in his immediate vicinity.

He was smiling.

The Pistons’ streak of never benefitting from moving up in the lottery – the only time they’ve moved up, they drafted Darko Milicic – remains in tact. Entering Tuesday’s lottery with the No. 7 seed, the Pistons fell to the No. 8 pick to create a grim situation.

The Cavaliers, a Central Division foe, landed the No. 1 pick and will also see Anderson Varejao return from injury. Another Central Division team, the Pacers, will begin play in the Eastern Conference Finals tomorrow. A third Central Division team, the Bulls, won a playoff series and will get Derrick Rose back next season. The Pistons might be in better shape than the Bucks, but at least Milwaukee made the playoffs this season, and I’m not going to bother with the pointless exercise of comparing the Pistons and Bucks.

Moreover, the eighth pick is not a great place to sit in this draft. Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore, Otto Porter, Trey Burke, Victor Oladipo and Anthony Bennett will almost certainly be off the board. It would have been worth hoping one fell to No. 7, but to No. 8? It was already a stretch at No. 7. The Pistons won’t even necessarily get their top choice of a lower tier that includes Shabazz Muhammad, Alex Len, Cody Zeller and C.J. McCollum.

But as I saw Drummond standing there smiling, I exhaled and smiled, too.

Maybe this won’t be so bad. After all, the Pistons have Drummond, one of the league’s most promising players thanks, in part, to the size that allowed me to see him first. And they got him one pick later than they’re choosing this year. Sometimes, the improbable happens, and lately, the Pistons’ improbable luck has come on draft night rather than lottery night.

The risks are still plentiful, as the No. 8 pick might do just enough to ensure the Bobcats get the best pick possible in a stacked 2014 draft, thanks to a first rounder Detroit still owes them from the Ben Gordon trade (top-eight protected next year). Is a Drummond-Greg Monroe-Brandon Knight core plus whoever the Pistons draft and sign this year good enough to run with?

Before I knew it, a crew dismantled the stage that not long ago Drummond and ever other team’s lottery representatives sat on. I didn’t stick around to watch the end, but the crew was taking down the logos top to bottom, left to right, leaving the Pistons’ logo due to come off last.

The Pistons are still standing thanks to Drummond, and they might even still be smiling thanks to an irrational hope that draft luck repeats itself. But as much as I want to remain optimistic, I can’t help but think it won’t be long until someone comes by and takes down what the Pistons are building.

111 Comments

  • May 21, 201311:28 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    The Pistons got the best pick in the draft last year at #9.

    CJ Mcollum could be like Steph Curry, he could be a top guard in this draft
    Alex Len is a 2 way center that can shoot, he could end up the best big of this draft
    Tony Mitchell is this years Drummond, he could be the best PF of this draft.

    The only thing we missed out on is a quality SF, but James Ennis could be a steal in the 2nd round. Relax, things are still looking up.

    • May 21, 201311:30 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      I absolutely believe the Pistons should go for value with the players listed above rather than waste a pick on a shaky SG like Bazz or KCP

  • May 22, 201312:36 am
    by Chris H

    Reply

    Kind of bummed.  Sort of wonder how much Dan Gilbert owes the commissioner now… :o

  • May 22, 20131:13 am
    by tarsier

    Reply

    I’m not particularly interested in drafting Len or Zeller as a back-up. The best FAs this offseason are big men anyway. So McCollum or Muhammad, here we come. Maybe Bennett’s injury will scare teams enough that he falls to 8. Here’s hoping.

  • May 22, 20131:15 am
    by Trent

    Reply

    So LeBron leaves and they get two no. 1′s in the next 3yrs, CP3 leaves and they get a no.1? Something fishy going on around here. I wish we had a superstar we could lose so we could grab a no.1.

    I think we should grab the best available then look at packaging our two second rounders and a role player to move up and get glen rice late in the first.

    Also I’m somewhat of a novice in regards to player contracts but it was my understanding that 2nd round picks only got one year contracts? Yet we have Kim, Khris and Kyle all on multiple year deals? How is that so? IMO after seeing Kim play last year I highly doubt he has a future. Kyle and Khris should split minutes with form dictating the ratio of mins per at backup SF.

    • May 22, 20131:33 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Better to keep a superstar than to try to replace him with a first overall pick or two. LeBron is sooooo much more valuable than Irving + Noel.

    • May 22, 20131:42 am
      by oats

      Reply

      There is no requirement to put 2nd round picks on one year deals, and most seem to sign contracts with team options to extend them past that first year. English is on one such deal, and the team can let him walk this summer without it effecting their cap as long as they do so by August 1. Middleton’s deal is vaguely similar, with 2 years guaranteed and the 3rd year being one the team can end before the season without penalty. Singler is an exception in that he got 3 fully guaranteed years, but he had some negotiating strength from playing well overseas.

  • May 22, 20131:32 am
    by Ryan Kelly

    Reply

    Not ideal but there are 8 or 9 good players in this draft obviously someone players will sneak up and become outstanding that weren’t ‘supposed’ to be.   But with Noel, mclemore, olidipo, Burke, porter, Bennett, a basic consensus top six that leaves McCollum, shabazz, and zellar to choose from.  I can live with one of those three.  Not sold at all on Alex Len with foot issues.   This season is all about free agents and trades anyway.  The draft was never gonna save this team.  They need real talent and need to get rid of bums like stuckey maxiel and vilaneuva.  

  • May 22, 20132:13 am
    by tarsier

    Reply

    The big question is now Orlando. The Cavs will probably take Noel. If they don’t, it’s gotta be Porter and then Orlando takes Noel. They like their one and two.

    Orlando needs help at every position. So for them, it is really just a a matter of who they like best. I’m not expecting it will be Bennett or Oladipo. So one of Burke, McLemore, Porter.

    The obvious pick for the Wizards is whoever is left of Noel and Porter. But if they’re both gone, then what? Washington isn’t taking Burke. Do they reach for Bennett or do they just grab McLemore or Oladipo and hope to put one of their SGs at SF? I’m gonna guess Bennett.

    Unless Orlando took McLemore, he’s gotta be Charlotte’s pick. If the Magic did, I think the Cats have to take Bennett. They need more offense than Oladipo can provide and they like Walker too much to grab Burke.

    So the Suns probably find themselves choosing between Oladipo and whichever remains of Bennett and Burke. They also really like their PG and, in a vacuum, Oladipo is probably a better pick than Bennett is now. And he’s a perfect fit. So Phoenix takes Oladipo.

    Either Burke or Bennett is available to the Pelicans. They’d be crazy to pass on Burke (and I don’t think they would) but they might on Bennett. He’s just not a great fit for the team. They are rumored to be looking to move Gordon and to b appropriately enthralled by Vasquez (which is to say they recognize that he’s not nearly as goo as his numbers). They could also use a big man who is actually big. So, assuming Orlando took Burke,  the Pelicans may well grab McCollum or Len.

    The Kings are a total unknown. Their best players are Cousins, Evans, and Thomas. But they also presumably like Patterson (who is pretty much a poor man’s Bennett) since he was what they just got for Robinson. Evans is likely leaving and nobody has any idea if they want to keep putting up with Cousins. Either way, their biggest needs are a defensive big and a wing. I think they would take Len over Bennett. And possibly Muhammad.

    With a fair amount of luck, that could see Bennett falling all the way to the Pistons. Otherwise, they are probably choosing between Muhammad and McCollum.

    Hopefully:
    Cavs – Noel
    Magic – Burke
    Wiz – Porter
    Cats – McLemore
    Suns – Oladipo
    Pelicans – McCollum
    Kings – Len
    Pistons – Bennett

    More likely:
    Cavs – Noel
    Magic – McLemore
    Wiz – Porter
    Cats – Bennett
    Suns – Oladipo
    Pelicans – Burke
    Kings – Len
    Pistons – McCollum 

    • May 22, 20133:01 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      I can see the Kings taking one of either Carter-Williams, McCollum or Len. If Evans is leaving its more than likely between Carter-Williams and McCollum. I read an article a couple of hours ago that if all the best wing players are gone Dumars wont reach for the next tier of wings but rather the best available big man. Unfortunately that will be between Len and Zeller if they are still there. I have a gut feeling too that Benett is gonna drop to us and at pick 8 i’d be happy with that. He would be able to come in straight away and split minutes with Monroe and Drummond. If he pans out to be something in the mould of a Larry Johnson type I’d be a very happy man. Fingers crossed.

      Also I wouldn’t be surprised to see a lot of mid to late 1st round picks traded. If another team really likes someone at pick 8 that is below us maybe we can trade our 8th and 38th pick to say Atlanta for their 17th and 18th pick. Who knows maybe we can then draft Shabazz and Hardaway JR straight after each other.

      • May 22, 20133:38 am
        by oats

        Reply

        I still think Bennett is the most likely for them. I bet they try to slide Bennett to the 3, knowing that if it fails they can just use him as the floor spacing stretch 4 they tried to get in Patterson. Doubling up on that skill set probably won’t bother them since Bennett is a better prospect, and no matter how it shakes out they’d have decent 4 man big man rotation. Cousins, Bennett, Patterson and Thompson makes sense to me. Which reminds me, the best reason not to take Len is that he isn’t an obvious improvement on Jason Thompson.
         
        I think if they pass on Bennett it would likely be for MCW or Muhammad. They are rumored to be interested in a big PG, that way they can slide Jimmer over to the 2 without the size problems of a Thomas and Fredette back court. I guess McCollum’s in play for the same reason, but I honestly think they’d prefer MCW. They also have a huge hole at SF, and Muhammad is often considered the second best SF prospect in the draft.

    • May 22, 201310:39 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      tarsier, your predictions of how the first 8 picks will unfold are close to how I see the first 8 picks going, as well.
      But, I’m not sold on the Bennett kid. Personally, I think that C.J. McCollum should be the player that the Pistons target.
      Additionally, the Pistons should get the Bulls on the phone and offer: Stuckey, Jerebko, English, and the #55 Pick for Luol Deng. The Bulls would probably go for this deal, as they need back-up guard play (Stuckey and English); Jerebko can do some of the same things as Deng. Note: The Bulls are losing Billineli, Nate Rob, and Rip. Also, I doubt that the cheap azz Bulls will resign Deng at anything near his $14 million that he is currently making, when his contract expires on June 30, 2014.
      Come July 1, go after Iggy hard. Sign Maurice Speights.
      And, yes, hire Isiah Thomas as the next Head Coach.
      Then WE roll with:
      PG- B. Knight/C.J. McCollum*
      SG- Iggy/Middleton/Anderson
      SF- Deng/Singler
      PF- Moose/Speights/Charlie V.
      C- Dre Drummond/The Ukraine
      *McCollum can become the ROY in 2013-14.
      This is a team that will play in May and June!
      Oh and all of you dam(n) Isiah Thomas naysayers out there, don’t underestimate the Prodigal Son. He can coach B. Knight. He knows this game. He loves the Pistons. And, guess what, the “real” Pistons fans love him, too!
      Do it Joe. Bring respectability back to this once proud franchise.

      • May 22, 201310:47 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        McCollum being ROY is a possibility (albeit a long shot and never going to happen if he isn’t starting). But it would be much more shocking if it turned out he had one of the best 5 careers out of the draft class.

        ROYs are NBA-ready rookies who score a lot. That describes McCollum, but it doesn’t mean he is that great of a prospect.

        I would love to trade those odds and ends for Deng, but I’m guessing the Bulls would require a bit more, as in, at least one piece with some real value (Knight or the pick). 

      • May 22, 201310:48 am
        by sebastian

        Reply

        Forgot to add: Draft Doug Anderson with the #38 Pick.

      • May 22, 201312:05 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Aside from the ABYSMAL idea of hiring Isiah as a coach, what is it with you and combo guards? Neither Knight nor McCollum are good passers.

      • May 22, 201312:22 pm
        by Chris N

        Reply

        “Oh and all of you dam(n) Isiah Thomas naysayers out there, don’t underestimate the Prodigal Son. He can coach B. Knight. He knows this game. He loves the Pistons. And, guess what, the “real” Pistons fans love him, too!”

        Isiah Thomas does know the game.  He likely loves the Pistons.  Many Pistons fans love him.  And yet, Isiah Thomas has a track record of bringing controversy and conflict with him.  He does not have a track record (as an executive or coach) of leading teams to success.

      • May 22, 20131:03 pm
        by G

        Reply

        So I’m not a “real” Pistons fan because I think Isiah was a shitty coach, GM and executive? What a moron.

        I think Isiah was bad at all that stuff because he WAS BAD AT ALL THAT STUFF. It doesn’t make me a bad Pistons fan if I acknowledge the truth. I was disappointed to see him suck at everything once he retired as a player, but that’s the reality of the situation. I think he’s decent as a studio guy for NBA tv, so that’s something. Being blindly loyal to someone despite them crapping all over the place does not make you a good fan, it means you’re deluded.

  • May 22, 20132:36 am
    by joe

    Reply

    If the Pistons selected McCollum with the 8 pick, Dumars might as well call Phil Jackson and say the job is yours. Picking a PG with your 8 pick, when Knight suppose to be that guy is straight up dumb. I think people need to relax and let nature take it coarse, because one think you got to remember, Curry wasn’t as good as he is now, until him and Mark Jackson hook up. Thats why i’m so big on hiring Brian Shaw, I think he can help Knight figure out his problems with the PG position.

    • May 22, 20133:26 am
      by MrHappyMushroom

      Reply

      “Curry wasn’t as good as he is now” (as an argument as to why Brandon Knight could be really good)….
      That’s a little like saying “Yao Ming wasn’t this tall in 9th grade, so there’s hope that Knight could end up close to seven feet tall.”
      Alright, that’s silly extreme.  But Curry’s *worst* season in terms of WS/48 is .078, whereas BK was at .029 his first year and then did worse during his second.  Curry’s 2nd year superceeded BK’s WS/48 by 6x; the next year is was by 7x; last year by almost 9x.
      I don’t watch or know enough to pass serious judgment on whether or not BK will be a decent NBA player.  In his two seasons, he’s been statistically bad, bordering on really bad, and didn’t show any real progress last year.  Doesn’t mean he won’t turn it around.  But Curry was clearly a star in the making during his first season and  that one looks like the worst he’ll ever have by a longshot.

      • May 22, 20137:30 am
        by Who Is Us?

        Reply

        Pretty sure the point he’s making is more of: “just because a guy wasn’t looked at as great, doesn’t mean he won’t be later, and just because he is viewed as the best in class now, doesn’t mean he really is.”
         
        Guys are over and underdrafted every year.
        Tony Parker-28th pick (perfect example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Draft)
        Jru Holiday-17th pick
        Darren Collison-21st pick
        Roy Hibbert-17th pick
        Serge Ibaka-21st pick
        George Hill-26th pick
        DeAndre Jordan-35th pick
        Marc Gasol-48th pick

        • May 22, 20139:18 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Sure, and players still take leaps after a couple years of poor play. But they are not usually huge leaps. Typically, the busts and steals don’t take more than a couple seasons to figure out.

        • May 22, 201311:37 am
          by G

          Reply

          Dude’s whole comment was based on Curry having a breakout year this year. Uh, Steph Curry averaged 17.5 ppg his rookie season and shot almost 44% from 3. He’s also had a better ast/tov ratio every year of his career. It’s not like he resurrected himself from the dead this year. Curry’s improvement has been steady and predictable. Knight was pretty mediocre his rookie year and was no better this year.

          • May 22, 20131:02 pm
            by tarsier

            I don’t know that I’d call it steady and predictable. His first and second seasons were virtually identical. last year was derailed by injury. This season he really broke out.

            But yeah, he was fantastic off the bat. And playing at this level now is not surprising given his rookie year. It was just a bit surprising given the intermediate seasons.

          • May 22, 20131:11 pm
            by G

            Check his shooting %’s though. Pretty steady the whole way, he basically scored more as he got more opportunity. I thought them dumping Monta Ellis had more impact on Curry than hiring Mark Jackson.

            My point was this – Stephen Curry looked like a future all star off the bat. Knight, not so much.

          • May 22, 20132:24 pm
            by tarsier

            Agreed about him looking like a future all-star.

            But, Monta or no, it is hard to take as many more threes as he did this season without the % suffering. 

          • May 23, 20138:18 am
            by G

            Did anybody think he’d do what he did this year? No, that was hard to see coming. But I always thought he’d make an All Star team at the least. Brandon Knight will have to improve by leaps & bounds if he’s going to get All Star consideration, and while not impossible, it’s extremely unlikely that he will.

          • May 23, 201310:15 am
            by tarsier

            we’re in full agreement

    • May 22, 20138:24 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Still thinking Knight is that guy is really dumb. He’s a good defender and a solid shooter. But he’s a sloppy ball handler and a poor passer. It would take a lot of improvement for him to get out of the league’s bottom 5 starting PGs.

  • May 22, 20133:21 am
    by Vince

    Reply

    How Vince sees the draft ending up

    1. Cavaliers – Nerlens Noel
    2. Magic – Ben McLemore
    3. Wizards – Otto Porter Jr.
    4. Bobcats – Anthony Bennett
    5. Suns – Trey Burke
    6. Pelicans –  Victor Oladipo
    7. Kings – CJ McCollum
    8. Pistons – Cody Zeller / Alex Len / Shabazz Muhammad

    Well. I was pretty bummed to see that 1. Not only did the Cavs get yet another N’1 pick, but 2. We moved down to 7. If Porter/Burke/Oladipo are gone I say trade down and draft either Steven Adams or Shane Larkin. 

     

  • May 22, 20133:24 am
    by joe

    Reply

    I’m noticing people starting to jump on the Shabazz bandwagon, but I believe this will be a terrible mistake, because a lot of critics in the NBA don’t like him including some Pistons fans. I feel if the Pistons are going to pick Shabazz at #8 they might as well pick Glen Rice Jr at #8. Glen Rice Jr is a better player than Shabazz so whats the difference. Now i’m not saying to take Glen Rice Jr at #8, I’m just saying Shabazz is over rated. 

    • May 22, 201310:48 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      I dont know if he is better than Shabazz, but and he two more years of development than Shabazz.

      But his physical skills and basketball skill set is impressive…and very attractive… we need some elite atheletiscm on the wing

      I dont worry too much about the redflags, but thats with most college dudes, some just dont get caught or exposed at an early age.

  • May 22, 20133:54 am
    by joe

    Reply

    The pick I would take at #8 is KCP. KCP has a Oladipo like defense and Miller like offense, which equals to playing both sides of the ball. I like the dude because a lot of his highlights remind me little bit of Kobe in the way his opponents send defenders to double team him but he still end up making the shot. Now I’ll be totally honest I having seen his games on the college level, but from his highlights he got to  be the type of player who give teams hell to receive them type of double teams. I think KCP with Knight will give the Pistons one of the quickest back courts in the NBA.

    • May 22, 20134:08 am
      by oats

      Reply

      KCP played on a really terrible team, so he didn’t have to be a superb player to receive those doubles. He just needed to be noticeably better than the scrubs he played with, and he most definitely was that. I really like KCP, and I have him as the 7th best player in this draft, but the expectations should be set closer to Wes Matthews.
       
      I’m really not interested in starting Knight at the point. He’s not shown any reason to think he will suddenly figure the position out.

    • May 22, 20135:10 am
      by MrHappyMushroom

      Reply

      That will come in handy when they have to race down down the court to defend after another one of BK’s turnovers… ;-)

      • May 22, 20137:47 am
        by Who Is Us?

        Reply

        The Pistons did win more games with Knight as the starting PG than they did with Calderon. And their defense was much better.
        Besides, Knight only turns the ball over 1 time more per game than Calderon and  .5 times less than many elite PGs. Yet may of you consider too turnover prone to be a PG? I don’t get it
        Knight may not dish out as many assists as some PG’s, but he’s not turning it over at an excessive rate either.
        TPG:
        Knight 2.7
        Calderon 1.7
        Wall 3.2
        Rose 3.1 (2011-2012)
        Williams 2.8
        Irving 3.2
        Curry 3.1
        Paul 2.3
        Rondo 2.5
        Conley 2.4
        Rubio 3.0
        Westbrook 3.3
        Holiday 3.7
        Parker 2.6
        Lowry 2.3

        • May 22, 20138:36 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Yes, he doesn’t handle the ball as much as many elite PGs. But his turnover rate (% of his possessions that end in a TO) is awful. And his AST:TO ratio is too.

          3 starting PGs turned the ball over on more than 13% of their possessions. Rubio did 14.1% of the time. Knight and Rondo both did 13.8%. The difference is that compared to Rubio’s 34.3% assist rate and Rondo’s 39.1%, Knight was assisting at a 20.4% rate.

          That’s really bad just by itself. But the issue that it shows is that unlike many PGs who turn the ball over because there is inherent risk in throwing a pass, Knight turns it over just because he is bad at taking care of the ball. 

        • May 22, 20138:44 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          The only starting PG with an assist rate even within 10% of Knight’s was Irving. And he’s better at taking care of the ball and sooo much better at scoring, in spite of being kinda overrated at this point.

          Knight’s AST:TO ratio is in the bottom 10 of the league. Not of PGs or starting PGs, of all players in the league. The only other PG anywhere close is Bledsoe, whose ratio is still 15% better.

          • May 22, 201312:15 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            im not going to get into the Knight PG arguement….

            but I will say, the line up he was given during his PG run was Horrible!

            The coaching and the System was Horrible….

            The only negative Knight showed me was that he is not rondo, or Nash PG .

            Give him some legit wing players, thats all i want….

            Calderon shooting was nice, but it didnt matter how much he scored when he losing on the defensive end of the floor everytime down.

          • May 22, 201312:59 pm
            by Huddy

            Those outside factors are a cop out.  I agree he didn’t have a good supporting cast and the coaching was bad, but does that mean no one could have done well so we shouldn’t expect anything? no.  His lack of improvement is a huge red flag.  Regardless of the factors around him, individually he did not improve.  Bynum off the bench found ways to make a difference with a bad line-up and coaching, Jose found players to pass to, Knight didn’t.  He is developing and doesn’t have the same expectations as Jose, but as a professional athlete his poor performance and lack of improvement at PG can’t just be continually passed off on his environment.
             
            I don’t think he is done developing or useless, but how do people possibly think he is definitely a PG.  Move him to 2 or as a tweener off the bench.  Better players will make more shots?  Yeah but that means more skilled players will make a player (Knight) who has proven to be mediocre at his position look better, not that Knight will BE better.

        • May 22, 201311:52 am
          by G

          Reply

          I’m really sick of the “Calderon didn’t win us games” argument, because it assumes that all other things were equal. It’s a stupid argument and people who try to make it are doing no critical thinking whatsoever.

          Btw, Knight was averaging over 3 turnovers a game before sliding to the 2 guard. Every other guard you listed gets more assists than Knight does, most of them SIGNIFICANTLY more. This is because they are better passers, no other reason.

          I love using stats to make my point, but since tarsier did enough of that, how about this – after having watched a ton of basketball in my life, I conclude Knight is a shitty passer and has no business running the point.

          He makes bad passes that lead to turnovers. He makes bad passes that get knocked out of bounds by the other team. He makes bad passes that get disrupted by the defense, leading to a scramble for the ball and possibly a wasted timeout. For every Knight turnover there are 3 or 4 of the other kind of plays that don’t show up on the stat sheet but nevertheless hurt the offense. The shot clock gets burned up while the offense resets, instead of a quality shot they have to settle for a contested long 2, a timeout gets burned, the wrong guys ends up with the ball…

          That is what I saw from Knight’s offense. Calderon ran a tighter ship, had MUCH fewer deflected passes and wasted possessions.

  • May 22, 20134:43 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    Considering that:
    knight has not proven he’s a pg
    Calderon could join a contender
    Stuckey can’t shoot the 3 consistently 

    I don’t think it’s a stretch to pick up a guard that compares well to Stephan curry and Damian Lillard on everything except assists. 

    EspeciallY if he’s one of the BPAs, CJ Mccollum is a great choice 

    • May 22, 20136:44 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Knight hasn’t proven he’s a point guard, so let’s go get someone else who can’t pass? Is that basically the argument here? I mean, maybe he can and just hasn’t demonstrated it, but doesn’t that sound a bit risky? On top of that, he really only shot the deep ball well this season. We’re talking 12 games against terrible teams. Couldn’t that be a combination of a hot streak, bad competition, and limited sample size? It’s not like it’s hard to find examples of players who shot the 3 ball much better in college than in the NBA, and given all the potential warning signs I wouldn’t be surprised if McCollum is in fact just an average shooter or worse. Lillard and Curry comparisons rest entirely on 12 good shooting games, and on ignoring the fact that his poor passing numbers actually got worse this year. McCollum might be the best prospect anyways, but this is not a safe bet in the least.

      • May 22, 20139:27 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        The reason to go for McCollum would be thinking he is the best player left, not thinking he is a great PG.

  • May 22, 20135:22 am
    by Seto

    Reply

    I also think that if someone falls down, it´ s gonna be Bennett. He would have been good, but if we are finally gonna lose Stuckey, then I think it´s better to draft McCollum or KCP. They should be able to put points on the table right away. There are good bigs in FA, that are more proven a ready to contribute. I would also like a sign-and-trade with Cavs – Villanueva plus maybe filler for Speights…Cavs could use stretch 4 and they were not really using Speights well. And I think he would have been great bench big for use.

    • May 22, 20139:24 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      CV has negative value. Even if someone would like his skill set, they don’t want to pay $9M for it. Antawn Jamison, at this point in his career, is probably comparable to Villanueva. If someone offered him a one year deal for half of what CV’s making, he’d jump all over it (more realistically, he’ll probably get $4M/2 yrs). So why give up an asset to pay twice as much for the same thing?

      If the Pistons have a player they don’t want, the odds are pretty good that nobody else wants him either and they aren’t going to trade him for a positive asset. With CV, the choice is clear: amnesty. 

      • May 22, 201310:11 am
        by Seto

        Reply

        Yeah that´s true, his contract is too big and value so low, my bad for dreaming…So I really hope we amnesty him, he is useless without his 3-point shooting. But it sucks that he will get his cash for doing nothing – not that it´s much different from previous years…

  • May 22, 20139:45 am
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    Crazy thing is Cleveland’s GM has already implied that they would be willing to listen to offers for the #1 spot. We may not know who is picking there until minutes prior to the draft and that makes projecting draft selections a bit more difficult. 
     
    My mock (version 1.1.2.7.8) looks like this:
     
    1. Cleveland, Ben McLemore. Waiters had an alright season, Gibson and Ellington could potentially be gone, and Irving needs a lot more help if the Cavs want to rise from the depths of Lake Erie. Waiters and McLemore could split time at the 2 or they could go small at times and rock Irving, Waiters, and McLemore at the same time. Most importantly they are projected to be something like to $20 million under the cap.
     
    2. Orlando, Nerlens Noel. Let the tanking begin! – months before the season begins. Seriously, though, no one knows when Noel will play, if a at all, during the 2013-2014 season. They were already pretty disappointed that Marcus Smart didn’t enter the draft and I’m betting that they’re willing to wait a year for the PG they already have made known that they love. 
     
    3. Washington, Otto Porter. I originally had Bennett here because the Wiz have a need for some big guys based off their pending free agents – and then I remembered they have Jan Vesely and he has been horrible to say the least. Easy call, Porter continues to call the DC area home.
     
    4. Charlotte Bobcat-Hornets (If I were MJ, I would just combine both names to create some new super beast animal like the Horncats and at the very least bring back the Grandmama teal and purple pinstripe unis), Victor Oladipo. Seriously, this team’s roster has very little going for it. Kemba, MKG, Henderson, and Biyombo are about all this team can boast about and that still isn’t a whole lot. Jordan needs to amnesty Tyrus Thomas and try to ship Gordon’s massive expiring deal elsewhere, like Chicago who desperately needs a 2. I like the future look of Kemba, Oladipo, and MKG starting together. 
     
    5. Phoenix, Anthony Bennett. I was going to put Burke or McCollum here, but the Suns took Kendall Marshall last year. Frankly, they have a plethora of guards, centers, and power forwards.  They are really in a sticky situation at this spot because they need a 3 bad but Porter is the only one worthy of taking in the top 10, let alone the top 5. Wouldn’t be surprised if they traded out of this spot to a) unload guys with bad deals and b) try to gain more assets to help this horrible fecal matter of a roster.
     
    6. New Orleans, Trey Burke. As much as I would like to have Burke continue to slide within reach of Detroit’s pick to make things interesting for the viewers at home, I simply can’t justify it any longer. This team needs a pg like they need to change their name once again (seriously, the Pelicans?). If Gordon can ever get healthy and stay that way, a young trio of Burke, Gordon, and Davis is a pretty nice one to have. Don’t get it twisted though, this team also needs a 3 and could surprise everyone with S. Muhammad here – I mean, they did reach quite a bit last year at 10 and draft A. Rivers.
     
    7. Sacramento, Cody Zeller. This may seem like a bit of a reach here, but my assumption is that the new ownership wants to keep several of their young guys for at least another year. Zeller is projected to be a stretch 4 in the NBA and that should pair nicely with Cousins down low. Look for Evans and Thomas to have their team options picked up. Evans scoring numbers have gone down each year he has been in the league, but those are directly related to his minutes, and subsequently his shot attempts, going down as well. This is another team that needs a 3 like they needed Seattle (see what I did there?). I would pencil in Saric over Muhammad here because the Kings tend to like Europeans and they’ve already dealt with enough drama in Cousins – probably pretty fair to say Artest and Rodman wouldn’t have fared to well on the same team if they played during the same time in the NBA.
     
    8. Detroit, Shabazz Muhammad. I put Muhammad here because we all know this team really needs a scoring 3 and whether he heated up slowly during the season or not, the guy proved he can do that. I am personally not a fan of his attitude and/or the folks surrounding him. Maybe an organization like Detroit is what Muhammad needs. I wouldn’t be upset if this was the pick, I just pray and hope that any of the 7 guys listed above are available and taken here. I’m also not super excited about Muhammad being only 6’6 and 222lbs. The weight isn’t the issue, it’s the height. I want a 3 that is a freak athlete – 6’8, 6’9. He is listed at the same height as Carter-Williams. I didn’t go McCollum because this team needs a pass first pg and his averages of 2.9 asst and 2.7 turnovers per game (that is a 0.2 asst to turnover differential) last year aren’t all that great and his 23.9 ppg in the Patriot League aren’t enough to make me a buyer. Carter-Williams’ scoring numbers aren’t all that impressive but at 7.3 assists per I’d be a buyer over McCollum.

    • May 22, 201310:52 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      “Charlotte Bobcat-Hornets (If I were MJ, I would just combine both names to create some new super beast animal like the Horncats”

      Or, even better, call them the Bobnets and steal Brooklyns logo but replace the basketball with Robert Johnson’s head.

      But they will soon be the Hornets now that New Orleans relinquished the name. 

    • May 22, 201310:54 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      But I do like Horncats.

  • May 22, 201310:23 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    Nevermind on Len.

    Stick with McCollum or Tony Mitchell.

    With McCollum you get a guaranteed efficiently scoring guard who might be a pg, at least an upgrade from Knight. 

    With Tony Mitchell you get an athletic beast, backup PF, and your bigs rotation is set 

    • May 22, 20134:06 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      With Tony Mitchell you get an athletic freak that couldn’t produce for North Texas. That sounds problematic.

  • May 22, 201310:25 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    I’d love to trade Stuckey or something with Dallas and get their pick.

    Get McCollum at 8 and Tony Mitchell at 14. 

    • May 22, 201311:04 am
      by joe

      Reply

      If Dumars want to do the Pistons a service he need to go after Dallas 13th pick. We got the money to go after the pick, so picking up Shawn Marion almost ten million dollar expiring contract should get the job done, because the Mavs just want the bread to make a play for Howard. Also you never know Marion my just retire when the Mavs trade him to us or take a buy out, you never know?

      • May 22, 201311:43 am
        by Corey

        Reply

        Totally agree- this is an easy way to pick up a late lottery pick if we take on a one year contract

        • May 22, 201311:59 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Which would be pretty close to taking back the BG trade.

      • May 22, 20131:10 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        Shawn Marion said he would refuse to play if traded.

        • May 22, 20131:35 pm
          by joe

          Reply

          That works for me, who care if Marion don’t play as long as the Pistons get the 13th pick. If you don’t play you don’t get paid go for it.

        • May 22, 20131:43 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          so he’d take a buyout…

          because i’m sure otherwise the team could fine him for his entire salary if he is refusing to play 

          • May 22, 20134:01 pm
            by Huddy

            Dallas is saving cap room for FA and wants to win now.  Getting the 8th pick won’t give them an impact player and will cost them more, so not happening.  Reports are that they are looking to get rid of their own pick for more space as it is. 
             
            I’m not sure what the system is for penalizing someone for not playing, or if Marion would even follow through on the claim just an observation.  Either way wouldn’t mean good things for our team next season until the contract expires, maybe another lottery and great FA could be best for the long term, but I am tired of no playoffs.
             

  • May 22, 201310:44 am
    by joe

    Reply

    I just one more thing to say about Knight, to me his biggest problem was consistence last year. In games he look better than Kyrie and then the next game he look like he belong on the bench with a note pad. The reason I don’t want to throw him alway for McCollum because I know these problems can be fix and it won’t take as long as some of you guys think. One thing you got to remember is, if we can see something wrong with Knight’s game, best believe the Pistons organization can see what’s wrong with Knight game and they got the know how and the bread to fix it. So i’m not to much worried about Knight going into next season, I think picking a point guard with your 8th pick will be a waste of time.

    • May 22, 201311:15 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Couldn’t you say that about every single poor to mediocre player n the league? They all have occasional really on nights. I don’t think Knight’s were any more special that anybody else’s.

      What is disconcerting to me about Knight is that he should be a young, improving player. And while his defense certainly improved over his rookie season, his offense and his stats were virtually identical. He hasn’t even improved from month to month. Look at his stats for each month he has been in the league. They are all virtually identical (except that his T% has been steadily plummeting). So I actually would say he is a pretty consistent player.

      What Knight does have going for him is his improving D, the fact that he is young, the fact that he showed a lot of talent in HS, and the fact that he is the type of guy to work to try to develop his talent. But I’m just skeptical that he’ll ever be a plus starter.

      • May 22, 201311:51 am
        by The Rake

        Reply

        One thing I do trust with BK is that he will work to improve. He has the appropriate work ethic to be better than he’s shown. Too soon to give up on him IMO unless you are getting something proven (Rondo in a package with the #8) or the like, in return. No giving up on BK without a strong proven guy in return (no, not fucking Mayo, either). Stuckey is not long for this team.  
        Though Sharp is a pain in the ass, he floated the idea of giving up Monroe for Rondo and drafting Zeller. I can’t say that I hate this idea. Not saying its a stroke of genius but it has potential. (By no means am I in love with Zeller at all either). I think looking at Rondo’s availability is a good place to start if nothing else. 

        • May 22, 201312:07 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          The Pistons couldn’t trade Knight for Mayo, Mayo’s a FA. But I agree that there is no sense giving up on him without a solid return. However, drafting a player to compete for his minutes is not giving up on him.

          I don’t love the idea of trading Monroe for Rondo. But if the Pistons know they can sign Jefferson or Millsap at a good price, I would probably bite. 

  • May 22, 201311:01 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    I Feel like 6,7,8 are the perfect places to be in this draft…

    because you can reach for a guy and no one will judge you…

    im not stuck on shabazz, im a Ohio St guy and i wasnt stuck on Sullinger.

  • May 22, 201311:02 am
    by Ryan Kelly

    Reply

    If you paid any attention at all you would notice knight was awful at protecting the ball.   pg is definitely an option in this draft.    I wouldn’t give up on knight but I don’t count him either as a legit starting pg.  

  • May 22, 201311:09 am
    by tarsier

    Reply

    At this point, I’d look to deal the 8th pick, probably attached to Stuckey. Lots of possibilities, here are the first ten off the top of my head. I think at least half of these would generate mutual interest:

    A) Stuckey + 8th + 37th for Ilyasova + 15th.

    B) Stuckey + Monroe + 8th for Love + 26th.

    C) Stuckey + 8th for Deng + 20th

    D) 8th for Perry Jones + 12th

    E) 8th for future first rounder

    F) 8th + Stuckey for Thad Young + 35th

    G) 8th for 17th + 18th

    H) 8th + 37th + Stuckey + Knight  for 6th + Gordon (this obviously depends on whether the Pelicans are trying to dump him and how much of a market there is)

    I) 8th + 37th + 56th for 5th or 6th

    J) 8th + 37th + Knight for 3rd or 4th

    • May 22, 201311:41 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      If we could guarantee away that we could

      Land… Glen Rice Jr & Tim Hardaway JR

      I’d move the 8th pick for 17 and 18….

      Key word is Guarantee

      • May 22, 201312:00 pm
        by G

        Reply

        There are no guarantees, but it wouldn’t be a bad move in this draft.

        I like (in order) B, C, D, G, H. I like A too, but I don’t think it’s likely. I also don’t like a move (in general) that translates to fewer than 2 players/picks going to Detroit.

        • May 22, 201312:13 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I just don’t feel like Detroit needs a bunch of new players. The Pistons have a lot of young prospects (Singler, English, Middleton, Kravstov, one may even be able to lump in Jerebko) to fight for minutes as it is. I don’t value very highly picks beyond 20th or so (even though two of the suggestions have such picks coming back to Detroit) because I don’t feel like they will yield prospects who are true upgrades over those already present. And they just can’t all get minutes.

          • May 22, 201312:31 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            I agree, but we need different types of young players.

            to go with the ones we have.

          • May 22, 201312:50 pm
            by G

            I agree with that, but If the Pistons are going to trade around, I think they need a player and a pick. So swap 3 picks for a player and a pick, or swap 2 picks and a player for a player & a pick, that sort of thing.

  • May 22, 201311:14 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    D) 8th for Perry Jones + 12th

    its simple and cheap…and i like Perry jones

    • May 22, 201311:21 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      And at 12, at least one of Muhammad, McCollum, MCW, or KCP will almost certainly still be there. Some of Len, Zeller, Adams, and Gobert will be taken and probably a surprise reach as well.

      I could be happy with any of those 4 I mentioned at 12. They would all be disappointing at 8. 

      • May 22, 201311:32 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        I must be honest,

        Im starting to get a little man crush on Glen Rice Jr,

        He is truely the one thing we have not had in Detroit since Grant hill, ot maybe Stackhouse….He is a Strong Elite Athletic wing that can Score

  • May 22, 201311:16 am
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    Joe D has a pretty good track record on the draft recently so not much of an issue.  The fact remains that it wont matter who is drafted if the coach is awful, as Frank made the case for last year.  No point in moving up, maybe try to sell the idea of giving the pick to the cats for the one we owe them next year.

    • May 22, 201311:23 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      But I am still hoping that won’t be a lottery pick. Next year may be a stronger draft. But I wouldn’t expect the 16th pick in it to be better than the 8th pick this year.

  • May 22, 201311:17 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Stuckey is gonna have alot of value this summer,

    Would you do Stuckey + 8 pick for Shumpert and Copeland

    • May 22, 201311:27 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      No. I’m not a big fan of Shump or Copeland. The 8th overall pick should have prospects better than either.

      Shump is a nice defender but has no O. And he’s never looked to have much upside. Just a solid, young role player who fits especially well beside Carmelo. Copeland played well in limited minutes. But even if I believed you could extrapolate that out, he’s 28 years old. 

  • May 22, 201311:49 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    At the beginning of the season

    I said that Pistons needed to walk away from this draft with 3 things

    Scoring , Athletiscm and Attitude from the Wing Position.

    Thats what kept us out of the play-offs last year, and what will keep us out.

  • May 22, 201312:36 pm
    by Greg

    Reply

    Glad to not see the Pistons get a little lucky and move up in the Draft, but I don´t think it´s that of an issue in this years class. The Top 6 players are far from beeing Franchise Players and all have their flaws. At 8 there is no way that one of those six players drops. I just don´t see Len and Carter-Williams being selected before one of Oladipo, Burke or Bennett with Bennett perhaps beeing the most likely to fall because of his injury. Even if he drops I´m not totally sold on the idea of adding another undersized Power Forward even with the range he has. I would go for Zeller to have the

     

    The first possibility for the Pistons is to try to move up in the Draft to get the Player they really like most. Defending on where this Player could be available it would certainly require Brandon Knight to do so. I´m not very sold on this idea, since the Top Players are not that great and I still think Brandon Knight can be a solid piece going forward. He could still turn out to be the starting Point Guard of the future or at least be a servicable first guard of the bench with good defense.

     

    The other possibility would be to trade down. Here I really would like to see a trade with th Hawks. They own the 17. and th 18. pick and will probably loose Josh Smith to the Houston Rockets, where he would fit in perfectly. It´s not a secret that the Hawks would prefer to move Al Horford to Power Forward, so what they really need is a Center to pair with him. The best Center in this years class semms to be Alex Len who is more probably than not available when the Pistons pick. Detroit coukd ask for the two picks and add two promising talents or just take one of the picks and ask for Jeff Teague, a young Point Guard which would fill one of the main needs.

     

    For the rest of the offseason I hope the Pistons use their capspace wisely in facilitating trades to add more talent, instead of signing overprices Free Agents. The only Free Agent I would like to see coming inis Denvers Corey Brewer. A trade I would really like to see happenig would be the Pistons going after Kevin Love. Pairing him with Andre Drummond would be huge and since he is unhappy in Minnesota it´s not that of a reach. Monroe would then be the Centerpiece of the Trade. To make salarys work Rodney Stuckey probably would have to be involved, too. I would even throw in Kyle SIngler, since I think that he doesn´t have Starting Small Forward potential and I see Khris Middleton beeing a valuable backup 3. Swapping picks with the Wolves could be another possibility to sweeten the deal.

    • May 22, 20131:07 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      You’re glad the Pistons didn’t get lucky?

      The Hawks can’t trade Teague, he’s a FA. Incidentally, does anyone know if teams can trade their RFA rights to players? I don’t think it’s ever been done, but it seems like it should be legal. 

      • May 24, 201312:03 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Point of RFA rights is to more closely link a player to the team that he’s currently on. The ability to trade RFA rights would make those rights pointless. As an RFA, the team has a chance to show the player some love with an extension. If the player declines the extension & opts to enter his UFA year without a contract, the team can gut it out or swing a trade like OKC did with Harden.

  • May 22, 201312:38 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Frank/Pistons and their winning streaks at the end of the season..that’s all I have to say. Was pretty disappointed with the result last night. I know people here don’t believe in moving up but I strongly continue to feel that one of Porter, Oladipo, or Burke makes us significantly better next year. And for me Shabazz, McCollum, and Len don’t do that. Maybe McCollum, but not sure if we need another combo guard and continue to play around with the 1 and 2 spots. I think Joe Dumars will stay put at the 8th pick, just considering that he has done that the previous three years.
    If the draft order remains the same and no one moves up or down, then here is what I feel each team will do:
     
    Cavs – Nerlens Noel
    Orlando – Trey Burke
    Washington – Otto Porter Jr.
    Charlotte – Ben Mclemore
    Phoenix Suns – Victor Oladipo
    New Orleans – Alex Len
    Sacramento – Michael Carter Williams
    Detroit Pistons – Would have a shot at C.J. McCollum or Anthony Bennett 
    I say the Pistons go with Bennett, looking at him in person on TV, it looks like he lost a lot of weight then what the videos/clips suggested during the regular college basketball season. We need the most help at 3, and it doesn’t hurt to experiment with probably one of the most athletic players in the draft.
    We could always add a PG if Knight continues to play the 2 in Jarrett Jack in FA. Or we could take Ray McCallum from Detroit in the second round, we should also try and make a deal for Minnesota’s 26th and experiment with international prospect Giannis Antetokounmpo from Greece (if that’s the case we should definitely go with C.J. McCollum), who I think can be developed to play the 3 spot efficiently and has the handles to clearly excel at that spot. If he’s off the board then Glen Rice Jr. may still be available or some draft sites also have Tony Mitchell falling that late. Pistons still can make some good moves next year. But if were sticking with Jose Calderon which maybe likely now, then we really have to go for a SF and we can make small moves by drafting: McCollum/or Bennett, Giannis Antetokounmpo, signing Jarrett Jack (if Calderon leaves) and Corey Brewer.
     

    • May 22, 20131:47 pm
      by joe

      Reply

      I agree with you on Bennett if did loose weight then he should be number one on the Pistons board.

      • May 22, 20131:58 pm
        by G

        Reply

        If by #1 you mean #6, then yes. He should not be above Noel, McLemore, Porter, Oladipo, or Burke. 

        • May 22, 20132:03 pm
          by joe

          Reply

          I’m talking about with the #8th pick. I put Bennett above Shabazz and McCollum especially in shape. 

        • May 22, 20132:27 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I’d put him above Oladipo, irrelevant though that may be.

    • May 22, 20132:23 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      I dont want the kid from Greece if he has to be stashed away for another season

      • May 22, 20133:16 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Then I’ve got bad news – he’ll have to be stashed away for at least 1 year. I’d have no problem with Detroit using their 2nd rd pick on him if he’s still there.

  • May 22, 20132:14 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    cj mccollum or zeller will be there for the pistons.
    if they get lucky once more, bennett might slide, though i really don’t see that happening.  cannot see phoenix, NO and sactown all passing on him.  he’ll probably go to one of those teams.
    the only real x factors i see are washington possibly going with len – if porter is not there, cause if he is available, no way they pass on him – and phoenix going with mccollum at 4 or one of the teams – charlotte or phoenix or sactown – taking a gamble on zeller.  
    would not be surprised if all of those things happened, or if one of them happened.  if all of them happened, detroit would be in great shape and someone really nice – burke or bennett most likely – would slide to them.  if one of those things happened, they would probably get a shot at someone like bennett.
    but if all of the top 6 guys – mclemore, porter, noel, burke, bennett, oladipo – are gone, and if mccollum is scooped up, also, i’d go with zeller.
    zeller will be a solid pro.  at least.  he is going to be a guy who will play for a decade in the nba.  if he can work on his shot and extend his range to 3 point range, he could be a very valuable player on a team like the pistons.  he would be a great mate for drummond, because both are excellent passers and both move well without the ball, and you could play him with monroe against lots of teams.
    if he simply remains a guy who can hit shots in the paint, he will be a decent, rotation-level player, a guy who would probably be a 4th or 5th best starter on a a playoff team. 
    but if he can extend his range – and i’d bet that he could do so, as he’s got solid mechanics and he will work on his game – then his ceiling is much higher and he could be a number 2 or 3 scorer on a good team. 
    and he would be well worth the number 8 pick in this draft. 

    • May 22, 20132:40 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      I wouldnt have traded the 6th pick, but I’d move the 8th pick

      IMO no matter the position we draft whoever is the closest thing to being Special or the BEST PLAYER on the board NO MATTER THE POSITION.

      Think back to Darko…we passed on Melo because he had Prince, we didnt think about wade because he had Rip and Billips, didnt really consider Bosh because he had Rasheed…

      We will be letting Maxiell walk , and likely either trade or amenesty Charlie….. so we need a PF

      • May 22, 20132:45 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        and although we have Singler and Middleton…We need a more atheletic Wing player

      • May 22, 20132:59 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Pistons didn’t have Sheed when Bosh was drafted. Rasheed was still with the Blazers in summer of ’03, got traded to Atlanta and then to Detroit for essentially the Josh Smith pick and a few odds & ends.

        • May 22, 20133:12 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          I got carried away …but you got the point…

          Just take the best player on the board..(especially in out position)…it always gives more flexiblity or an extra bullet in the chamber when you need it.

      • May 22, 20133:00 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        We didn’t take Darko because of Prince.  He was drafted where he was projected..in other words the player at our pick position that experts generally regarded as “the closest thing to special”.  Not a pick out of left field that no other team would have done, it was the projected pick at #2.  Plenty of other teams would have done the same thing they just didn’t have the chance so it because a blemish on our history.  All this “we did this because of this and not this because of this” is based on nothing.  The Pistons chose the #2 player with the #2 pick and he ended up sucking.

      • May 22, 20133:11 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Milicic was taken because he was considered the best player on the board. And that was by most people, not just Pistons brass. There was an argument for Melo over Milicic. But it was like the argument for Durant over Oden, purely academic. Milicic was going to be the second pick by virtually any team.

        Bosh was considered a distant fourth prospect. Nobody would have considered him there. Besides the fact that Detroit didn’t have Sheed at the time, and the fact that Bosh was not expected to be nearly as good as he turned out, how does drafting for a specific position make Milicic go ahead of Bosh? They play the same spot.

        Wade wasn’t even worth mentioning. He was considered a surprise and a reach when Miami took him at 5.

        Hindsight is 20/20. But that’s not always helpful. 

        • May 22, 20133:30 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          “”Milicic was taken because he was considered the best player on the board. And that was by most people, not just Pistons brass. There was an argument for Melo over Milicic. But it was like the argument for Durant over Oden, purely academic. Milicic was going to be the second pick by virtually any team.”"
          1. Every comparison thrown about Darko was off, and theres a huge difference between having a close to career ending injury and not reaching your potential and never have that much potential to start with

          Bosh was considered a distant fourth prospect. Nobody would have considered him there. Besides the fact that Detroit didn’t have Sheed at the time, and the fact that Bosh was not expected to be nearly as good as he turned out, how does drafting for a specific position make Milicic go ahead of Bosh? They play the same spot.

          2. the point was take the best player on the board..(especially in our position)…it always gives more flexiblity or an extra bullet in the chamber when you need it. In not trying to live in the past, im saying learn from it
          Hindsight is 20/20. But that’s not always helpful. 

          3. Wasnt trying to be helpful.

          http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1490974 This article was the start of Darko Maina. We all drank the kool-aid.

          And if I can find the article, I will post it. Dumars said we were secure at the SF position

          But its the Past

          • May 22, 20133:55 pm
            by Huddy

            Dumars saying we are secure at SF doesn’t negate the fact that Darko was ranked #2 on the board and not just by the Pistons.  The point is that taking Darko wasn’t blatant move to draft for position rather than talent when he was ranked where he was taken anyway.  Why Darko or Oden flopped isn’t the issue, that is all hindsight.  Prior to knowing how their careers would turn out both guys were taken where they were ranked, they were not ranked 5-6 and taken 1-2 because of positional needs.
             
            Take the most talented player on the board…yes you are right.  Darko isn’t an example of not doing that because he was generally ranked as the best player on the board at the time of the draft.
             

          • May 22, 20134:13 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            i get the hindsight talk…its not the point you bastards do hindsight everyday… We shouldnt have drafted Knight we should have took Leonard, Walker, Faried. We shouldnt have signed Gordon or Charlie, we shouldnt have traded away our next year pick… blah blah blah….
            The whole point was take the best player on the board.,,,I thought Melo was the best player on the board at the time, but Darko was the better Tall-Tale

          • May 22, 20136:08 pm
            by frankie d

            maybe darko was rated higher but some gms would have taken melo with that pick and they would have been right and the consensus would have been wrong.
            with both oden and darko, there were serious red flags that almost everyone decided to ignore. 
            with oden, his health was absolutely discussed and was absolutely an issue before the draft.
            kevin pritchard specifically stated that he was satisfied that those issues would not be a problem and besides, the chance to draft a franchise big man was so rare that you had to take that chance.
            bad decision, and in many ways, it probably cost him his job.
            with darko, the simple fact that no one really knew him well, no one really had a handle on him as a person or a player should have slowed down the rush to crown him such a valuable prospect.  and at the time of the draft, there were nba people who questioned whether he was worth such a gamble.  they would have been right.  
            however, i tend to think that a huge, if not the major part of darko’s ultimate demise was the situation he landed in.  dumars and larry brown and the pistons’ organization could not have done a worse job of developing him, if they had tried to sabotage his career.  i always questioned the choice simply because larry brown had a well-known and strong bias against euros and young players.  i never understood how dumars would bring an 18 year old euro onto a team coached by a guy who had loudly denigrated euros in the recent past.
            but all of that is truly hindsight. 

          • May 23, 20138:04 am
            by G

            Here are the facts about the 2003 NBA draft that many of you guys are forgetting. LeBron was the consensus #1 pick, but after that Darko was 2a and Melo was 2b. There wasn’t the skepticism of foreign players that exists today *cough-Tskitishvili-cough*, and Darko was getting a lot of buzz. The Pistons worked Darko out & liked what they saw. They invited ‘Melo to work out and he turned them down. Dumars didn’t want to draft a guy that wouldn’t even show up for a workout, so he went with Darko.

            Don’t even mention Wade or Bosh. If Detroit had drafted Melo, Denver would’ve taken Darko. Much like the Oden/Durant draft. If Portland had taken Durant, Seattle was going Oden all day. 

  • May 22, 20134:25 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    @ G: I agree that international prospects get stashed for a year like we did with Slava (but that was also because we had Drummond) and because of communication problems that clearly existed. We never also gave him minutes towards the end of the season which made no sense, because when Drummond was out, Bynum seemed to have developed some moments with Slava, he clearly needs to work on his team defense and is still a project (better project then Darko, that’s for sure!) But the Pistons showed some interest in the Greek 6’9 Giannis Antetokounbo as reported by the Detroit News about a month ago, and apparently flew out to go see him play. Again, I’m not going to justify his potential by just looking at these videos which look as competitive as a high school 5 on 5 game: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1627273-giannis-adetokunbo-breaking-down-greek-phenoms-2013-nba-draft-stock

    But if scouts can do that about Shabazz when he was out of high school, I don’t see why this 18 year old kid cannot have the same potential as he was predicted to have. Of course he’s an experiment and has a lot to learn. But our options at SF as of right now are Kyle Singler and Khris Middleton.

    I also don’t agree with the comment made by tarsier about adding new players. Agreed we have new players in Kyle Singler, Khris Middleton, Kim English, Slava, and you can put Jonas. But we’ve invested one year on each of the guys mentioned above, and in Jonas’ case 3 years. We know what they can bring to the table. And we don’t need both Kyle Singler and Khris Middleton, and that’s why we should add another solid player with the 8th pick who could possibly start for us. Heck Kyle Singler started almost the full season last year! I’d rather pick Bennett and see if he could possibly play the 3 if not, he’d be great behind Monroe, which means Jonas has to go, so be it.

    Someone mentioned a trade of Monroe for Rondo. Why not Brandon Knight/Kyle Singler or Middleton + 8th pick for Rajon Rondo? I know it sounds too good to be true for the Pistons. But the Celtics could probably add a guy like Zeller, Len (would probably not be available but maybe), Shabazz (game is similar to Paul Pierce). Paul Pierce and KG are probably retiring soon anyways, and Rondo doesn’t come back until late December, or early Jan, maybe the Celts want to start fresh and they looked pretty good with Avery Bradley. With him Knight, Jeff Green, possibly Zeller, and Paul Pierce and KG returning for one year they’d be better than they were in the playoffs. Danny Ainge has always had a soft corner for Pistons players..heck he made a deal for Stuckey, Prince, Hamilton for Rondo/Ray Allen. We should have done that! 

    I also do like the ideas proposed by Tarsier with putting Stuckey in the mix to either trade down for Minnesota’s pick or Dallas, or 16th and 17th. I just feel that the real value in this draft is clearly picks 1 to 5, and that far down I’d rather add experienced young FA’s, but if Stuckey gets out of Detroit as a result, I’d be happy. I may still be dreaming but a guy like Otto Porter Jr., Victor Oladipo, Ben Mclemore, and Trey Burke were all in our range coming into March, and then we ruined it, while other teams continued to lose. I don’t know if we can trade up and offer our 8th pick plus Stuckey/Middleton or Knight/Singler to somewhere between 3 to 5, I’d like to see that. Unless we can make the Boston deal, but idk Rondo an all star at age 27 coming off an ACL injury and young Trey Burke. I might take a gamble at trading up with the Wizards, Bobcats, or Phoenix who may have an interest in one of our players and feel that they get the same value with the 8th pick. Even the Cavs are reportedly willing to listen to offers for the No. 1 pick. I think the Magic, Wizards, Bobcats, and Phoenix will also listen, they all know that there going to be back next year anyways. And if we are committed to being back then we should stay with the 8th pick, not sign any big named free agents, save the money! And hopefully we have one of the top 3 or 5 worst records, if not the worst. But as fans we clearly want to be in the playoffs next year. I think we can sacrifice one more year, knowing that if we get a top 3 pick next year, we could be good for the next 5 to 6 years.  

    • May 22, 20136:15 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Giannis has not proven he is ready. We’re talking about a guy putting up roughly a 10 and 6 in the second Greek league. That league is considered roughly the equivalent of Division 3 ball. That’s a guy who just isn’t ready to make an impact in the NBA. He’s also 18, so doing that when he might be a senior in high school is decent enough, but it is still a really long ways from being ready to get minutes in the NBA. The only way I’d want Adetocunbo is if the plan is to stash him over seas. He won’t play in the NBA for at least a year, and maybe 2 or 3, even if he is on a roster.
       
      Knight, Singler, and 8 for Rondo is not going to happen because Boston would be super dumb to do that. They absolutely will not dump him for the pile of garbage that is that trade. Knight is a bench scorer, Singler is a bench glue guy, and the 8th pick has a pretty high chance of getting another bench player. This doesn’t make any sense for them.
       
      Also, while the guys after 10 or so do kind of stink, those veterans are going to cost significantly more while having less room for improvement. More often than not you are better off collecting rookie deals.

    • May 23, 20138:15 am
      by G

      Reply

      We didn’t “stash” Slava, the Pistons signed him out of Europe as a free agent.

      Shabazz’s game isn’t remotely like Pierce’s. Pierce can run the point forward, for example, while Shabazz is a black hole. As old as he is, Pierce is still a good defender and probably better than Shabazz will ever be. And Pierce is able to create his own shot, which Shabazz struggles to do. Hate this comp. Shabazz is more like Tyreke Evans with less inclination to pass.

      Oats already said what I think about Adetkunbo. He doesn’t play in a very competitive league (my Saturday pickup game has more talent), and he looks REALLY raw. Put him in Spain’s ACB and see how he does. I agree with oats, the kid is at least 2 years away. I’d take Schroeder over him right now, if we’re talking international prospects.  

  • May 23, 20134:01 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    “”Shabazz’s game isn’t remotely like Pierce’s. Pierce can run the point forward, for example, while Shabazz is a black hole. As old as he is, Pierce is still a good defender and probably better than Shabazz will ever be. And Pierce is able to create his own shot, which Shabazz struggles to do. Hate this comp. Shabazz is more like Tyreke Evans with less inclination to pass.”"
    1. All around Pierce was a much better player than Shabazz, but as scorers they are very similar. slashing, getting points in the post, mid-range and three ball strong bodies. Pierce also slipped the draft because people had a perception about his game and his character.  I dont like the Tyreke comparison but if he could do what Tyreke did as a rookie even without the assist all of you would be eating crow.
     
    Oats already said what I think about Adetkunbo. He doesn’t play in a very competitive league (my Saturday pickup game has more talent), and he looks REALLY raw. Put him in Spain’s ACB and see how he does. I agree with oats, the kid is at least 2 years away. I’d take Schroeder over him right now, if we’re talking international prospect
     
    2. i dont think he needs to be stashed away, normally guys are stashed away ot they stay over seas because they are in the midst of a contract that the NBA team is not allowed to buyout, and the player has to buy themselves out of the contract. Or the player does not want to come over until they feel like they are ready. I would see not reason in stashing Gainnis overseas if we selected him. He needs strength and conditioning, he has a slight english barrier, he needs to learn NBA terminology, get adjusted to American teammates blah,blah,blah. Also, im not saying its NBA worthy competition but Gainnis played in a league that many considered better than the D-league, I read that the D-league all-stars last year went 0-3 against the A2 league that Giannis now plays in.

    • May 24, 20138:26 am
      by G

      Reply

      I agree, if Shabazz is able to score at the rate that Tyreke did his rookie year, it would be considered a success. I don’t expect him to, however, since Shabazz is even less efficient a scorer than Tyreke.

      San Antonio often stashes foreign players for a couple years, and not always due to contract issues. Detroit stashed Okur in the same way. Portland stashed Rudy Fernandez despite no contract issues. Same with Memphis and Gasol. Ricky Rubio stashed himself. 

      The fact is Giannis Adetkunbo isn’t exactly “lighting up” this league he’s in. Even if it IS more competitive than the D league (which I doubt, since it’s basically Greece’s D league), he’s averaging 10 and 6. From what I read a Spanish league team currently owns his rights but haven’t called him up yet. I haven’t read anything about the HEBA A2 league playing against the D league all stars, so I’d need to see a source before I give that any credence. What little I’ve seen of this kid, he’s not done yet. Needs to bake in Spain a little, bring him along in a couple of years.

  • May 24, 20139:15 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    “”I agree, if Shabazz is able to score at the rate that Tyreke did his rookie year, it would be considered a success. I don’t expect him to, however, since Shabazz is even less efficient a scorer than Tyreke.”"
    1. Scorer? Really interesting Tryeke was a one and done kid, 17ppg 45% and 27% for 3′s …@Memphis ….

    “”San Antonio often stashes foreign players for a couple years, and not always due to contract issues. Detroit stashed Okur in the same way. Portland stashed Rudy Fernandez despite no contract issues. Same with Memphis and Gasol. Ricky Rubio stashed himself.”"

    2. Not gonna play historian but i could have sworn that memhet had one more year on his contract, and the Blazer Roster was loaded at the time, so it made since to keep Rudy overseas, Marc Gaol was also finishing out his overseas contract, and like you said Rubio stashed himself away but the wolves didnt expect him to do that. He could research it, but it doesnt matter. The point is MOST cases in todays NBA up draft overseas players in the 2nd rd, in hopes that they develop into something or that your roster or cap cant hold them right now. First rd especially lottery (maybe to mid first rd)you are expecting help right now..I think we can agree on that?

    “”The fact is Giannis Adetkunbo isn’t exactly “lighting up” this league he’s in. Even if it IS more competitive than the D league (which I doubt, since it’s basically Greece’s D league),”"

    2. No body lights it up overseas, because its more about team concept

     he’s averaging 10 and 6. From what I read a Spanish league team currently owns his rights but haven’t called him up yet. I haven’t read anything about the HEBA A2 league playing against the D league all stars, so I’d need to see a source before I give that any credence. What little I’ve seen of this kid, he’s not done yet. Needs to bake in Spain a little, bring him along in a couple of years.

    3. He just signed with them, in April and they dont know if he’s going to play in the NBA or stay overseas. He wasnt suppose to even play for the team until their next season start. also, if I find that piece I read i’ll post ot. Nobosy really ever lights it up overseas, and once again I not saying he played against top talent. My point is if scouts believe his game translates then its better to bring him over now
     

    • May 24, 201310:17 am
      by G

      Reply

      Tyreke as a college player was almost identical in scoring efficiency to Shabazz (average to mediocre TS%). NOW he’s better than Muhammad is. I was comparing Tyreke NOW to Shabazz NOW.

      Adetkunbo would need to get bought out also, this point is moot. If an NBA team thinks a player can help now, they buy the guy out. Spain’s league has a favorable buy-out clause, so guys like Fernandez and Gasol could’ve been easily had if they were ready. 

      Regarding your point that “nobody lights it up” in Adetokunbo’s league, that’s relatively true compared to NCAA and NBA standards. But Giannis averaged 9.5 ppg, 1.4 apg and 5.0 rpg with what I would describe as “very average” FG%’s. In his league the top 10 scorers averaged between 20 and 15 ppg. The top 10 rebounders averaged between 9.5 and 7.5 rpg. The top 10 passers averaged between 5.9 and 3.3 apg. If you scale that up to NBA levels, it’s like averaging 13 points, 6 rebs and 2 assists. That’s Gordon Hayward territory. Would you bring the Gordon Hayward of HEBA A2 to the NBA next year? I hope not. 

      • May 24, 20132:04 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Once again, Tyreke was a better slasher in a more uptempo offense, Shabazz is already just as good as tyreke when its coes to the mid-range and 3 ball…

        If Shabazz averages over 15ppg as a rookie and shots about 44% and 36% three’s …it was shut many mouths…

        I saw how athletic Hayward was, i dont know how athletic Giannis is that a huge difference. I have never been a fan of keeping guys overseas unless its the situation I presented earlier

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