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Andre Drummond finishes – guh– fourth in Rookie of the Year voting

Thanks a lot, Lawrence Frank.

Andre Drummond was on track to have one of the most promising rookie seasons ever, comparing to Shaq’s rookie year at one point. But Frank played Drummond so little, 20.7 minutes per game after a late-season rise, Drummond had no chance at Rookie of the Year.

Drummond’s late injury probably would have pushed him behind Damian Lillard no matter what Frank decided, but the Pistons center deserved better than fourth. Bradley Beal finished third – ahead of Drummond by a larger margin than between Drummond and 10th-place John Jenkins.

Because of such a low minute total, I bet plenty of voters ignored Drummond. Dock him for a lack of playing time. That’s fine. This award is about impact, and it’s difficult to make an impact while on the bench. But Drummond still deserved to finish ahead of Beal.

These awards don’t matter much, and it matters exponentially less who finishes third or fourth. But it’s always nice to see Pistons do well, and we were denied that satisfaction – one last gift from Frank.

Complete Rookie of the Year voting

Player, team: total points (first-second-third)

  1. Damian Lillard, Portland: 605 (121-0-0)
  2. Anthony Davis, New Orleans: 306 (0-96-18)
  3. Bradley Beal, Washington: 94 (0-14-52)
  4. Andre Drummond, Detroit: 36 (0-5-21)
  5. Dion Waiters, Cleveland: 21 (0-2-15)
  6. Harrison Barnes, Golden State: 8 (0-1-5)
  7. Chris Copeland, New York: 8 (0-2-2)
  8. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Charlotte: 3 (0-0-3)
  9. Jonas Valanciunas, Toronto: 2 (0-0-2)
  10. John Jenkins, Atlanta: 1 (0-0-1)


  • May 1, 20139:19 pm
    by DetroitP


    Who cares? Talking about all guys that teams didn’t make the playoffs.  Can’t blame the voters ball park frank had him on the pine

  • May 1, 20139:30 pm
    by mike


    Thanks Frank. Now you can watch another coach succeed with 2 elite big men that you couldve had the privelage of coaching, but chose not to.

  • May 1, 20139:34 pm
    by MrHappyMushroom


    C’mon, folks.  Andre Drummond suffered a stress fracture that put him out of action for two months.  You’re really sure that Arnie, Joe, and Lawrence weren’t concerned about the resilience and stamina of a huge, high-jumping, and still not-quite-in-control-of-his-body manchild like Andre?
    None of us liked watching Jason Maxiell so much this year.  But I walked away very much feeling like they played the right cards with Andre Drummond.  Less fun for us, but with him starting early, the Pistons would still be sitting around at home this time of the year.

    • May 2, 20139:19 am
      by Revken


      If Drummond hadn’t gotten injured, so he’d started the rest of the season, he probably would have finished at least 3rd.  I think blaming Frank for not playing him more is silly and uninformed.  I think the training staff, etc. had a say in his playing time, and it was actually about average for how much other young bigs have played. 

      I’m not sure why Beal finished ahead of Waiters.  Can’t see that he was better.  I can only guess that it’s because Washington gets more press than Cleveland.  

      • May 2, 20139:35 am
        by G


        I think you calling Feldman out for blaming Frank is silly and uninformed. The training staff weren’t holding back Drummond’s minutes until the end of the year when he was recovering from injury. Before then it was on Frank. He even said so. Drummond showed that he deserved to be starting & getting more minutes early on. I expected him to crack the rotation sometime in January.

        Beal finished ahead of Waiters because Beal is a better player. He scored less but was a more efficient scorer and was a much better defender.  

        • May 2, 201311:52 am
          by MrHappyMushroom


          We don’t know this.  The last thing in the world a franchise will say about arguably its best asset in a decade is, “Well, he looks great, but we see some fragility, some injury potential, and we’re going to limit his minutes.”  He’s 19 and not done growing into his body and he is absolutely huge and  with his leaping ability, the potential for stress surely has to be more than that faced by Shaq or Oden.
          I get that we  fans would have enjoyed seeing more Andre Drummond this year.  But for all of Frank’s  limitations, after a year of Andre Drummond, the Pistons are looking to bring back a guy who at least has a chance of being one of the most dominant players in the NBA for a decade-plus.  I don’t see the problem. Even without concerns about  his body–and we’ll likely not know the true story–I really wouldn’t be much more excited by a 34-48 season as opposed to the 29-53 one we got.

          • May 2, 20131:02 pm
            by G

            We don’t “know” this in the same way that I don’t “know” what Jordan Crawford said to ‘Melo last night, but I’m pretty effing certain.

            If the reason for Drummond sitting was lack of strength and conditioning, then Frank would’ve said “he needs to build up his strength and conditioning”. The reason for holding someone’s minutes down is NEVER “fragility” or “injury potential”. Either a guy is injured already (and on the DL) or is coming off an injury and needs to build his strength up. 

            What Frank gave as his primary reason for holding Drummond back was because Monroe wasn’t ready to slide over to the 4. Frank was getting slammed all year for Drummond’s minutes, I’m sure if he could’ve passed the buck off on the training staff, he would’ve.

  • May 1, 20139:46 pm
    by Javell


    Wat the FUCK drummond should at least beem second ! Hes wayy better than anthony davis

    • May 1, 201311:05 pm
      by tarsier


      You clearly did not see how good Davis was this season.

      • May 2, 20138:14 am
        by patrick the troll


        Why is it every time somebody defends a Piston player, whether they do it intelligently or not, you have to bring a negative response? You don’t like the coach, you don’t like the players, you don’t like the management, I will just assume you’re one of the people that think it should be downtown instead of Auburn Hills, what is it you like about the pistons, The cool color scheme?  Start being a N.O. fan if you want to be vocal that Davis is so much better then Andre. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think you have to be a blind follower to everything pistons to be a fan, but you go out of your way anytime somebody says Andre is good, to say Davis was better, which really wasn’t even close to the truth until the last quarter of the season.

        • May 2, 20139:38 am
          by tarsier


          I love Drummond, but Davis was better this season. It’s like saying Isiah Thomas was awesome, but Jordan was better.

          If I were a fan of whatever team has the best player, I’d be a Heat fan. But no, I like the Pistons. I just recognize that they aren’t that amazing right now.

          You do realize, don’t you, that there is probably a lot wrong with a team that can’t even get 30 wins? Hence why there are negative things to say. Better to realize the negative things than not to.

          Could Drummond have outperformed Davis if he got more minutes? Quite possibly. But he didn’t. And that’s not on the voters.

          • May 2, 201310:27 am
            by patrick the troll

            What i was saying wasn’t that drummond is better or worse, my point was the fact that you feel the need to point out that you think davis played better every time somebody says otherwise…

            On a related note: Drummond did out perform Davis in rebounds plus blocks per 36 and also in  fg% (warning opinion alert) If I’m looking at big men I think those are the three catagories that matter most.  If given equal minutes I would rather have Drummond then davis any day of the week, let’s hope they get close to equal minutes next year so you can get creative with you next reason Davis is better. I would guess it would go something like this “well Drummond may have gotten more rebounds, steals, blocks, assists, had a better fg% and TS% (even if he can’t hit a free throw) and was all around sweet, but on the other hand davis scored 3 points more per game and had a better ft% so he wins”

          • May 2, 201311:44 am
            by tarsier

            When the team is good, I have more good things to say about it than bad. When it is bad, I have more bad things to say about it than good.

            Doesn’t that make sense? 

          • May 2, 201311:45 am
            by tarsier

            For what it’s worth, if Drummond could have played 28 mpg and held up his per minute numbers, I would easily take him over Davis.

            But Davis deserved to finish ahead of Drummond this year. And yeah, if someone says otherwise, I’ll disagree. 

        • May 2, 20139:45 am
          by G


          I think it’s legit to ask people not to be TOTAL homers. Drummond isn’t WAY better than Anthony Davis. They’re pretty close, and since Davis played 600 more minutes & had more of an impact on his team than Drummond did.

          The case for Drummond over Davis has to be made at a deeper level. Check the advanced stats (which LOVE Drummond) and the per 36min numbers.
          Davis – 16.9 ppg, 10.2 reb, 2.1 bpg, .516 FG%, .751 FT%, .559 TS%, .159 WS/48
          Drummond – 13.8 ppg, 13.2 reb, 2.8 bpg, .608 FG%, .371 FT%, .578 TS%, .172 WS/48 

          • May 2, 201310:30 am
            by patrick the troll

            Very true G. Heck I never  liked stuckey since the first time i saw him. I think there is a difference between not beinga homer and never having anything good to say about the team you are a fan of.

          • May 2, 201311:49 am
            by tarsier

            I’ve had a lot of good things to say about Monroe and Drummond. And in the past, Stuckey.

  • May 1, 20139:50 pm
    by robertbayer


    All those who protested Frank being hired before he started, raise your hands!  The OH and 16 start with NJ was all I needed to know to do just that .. say it was a bad move .. Anyone else?

    • May 1, 201310:40 pm
      by Blocks by Dre (Burke for the win!!)


      I wanted Mike Woodson… 

    • May 2, 20133:18 am
      by John P


      Even if you weren’t a fan of the Frank hiring, there is only so much you can blame on the coach before having to look at the GM for the bad decisions he’s made.  Although Curry and Kuester were pretty bad during their time in Detroit, Joe D can’t keep blaming the head coaches.  If the team keeps losing season after season and is not getting better whatsoever, then the head coach isn’t the only problem.  Joe D should’ve been let go before this year, but apparently the whole “we have good players but not the right coach” routine is still working for him.  The team needs players that gives the coach a chance to win.  This is not to say the coach doesn’t share any of the blame.  Curry, Kuester, and Frank have made extremely suspect decisions when it came to the distribution of minutes.  But it isn’t like we have had a lot of talent on our team.  Obviously, Monroe and Drummond are cornerstones of the franchise, and it is very exciting to see two players with their potential and talent on the team. But we were pretty lucky that they have turned out to be as talented as they are. Monroe fell to us after Golden State drafted Udoh, and Drummond was a boom or bust player.  Both players had questionable motors, but both have greatly exceeded expectations and have given Pistons fans a glimmer of hope.  Now, I’m not saying that Frank was a good coach.  I wish Drummond was given more minutes before his injury, but the coaching carousel is getting to be a sad, overplayed joke.  It’s time for Joe D to go…

  • May 1, 201311:11 pm
    by tarsier


    Did you guys honestly expect Drummond to finish ahead of Beal? Beal played really well at the end of the season. Drummond sat a lot at the end of the season. And that part of the year is a lot fresher in voters’ minds than the beginning.

  • May 2, 20131:07 am
    by Lorenzo


    Love Drummond but it’s really not that much of a snub, Beal had a solid season. Plus perimeter players tend to make much more of an immediate impact in the league…not to mention they always have the ball always in their hands. It’s easier to make an impact and get noticed. 

  • May 2, 20131:08 am
    by Mateo


    I think he had the right judging. If he didn’t have the injury, he would have been #3 or talked about as #2. remember that Davis have some injuries himself. If D Lillard/A Davis and Drummond played the same amount of games, it would have ended up the same. With Drummond not getting the minutes, he was going to be the odd man out. Per 36 min, Drummond had the best numbers…oh well.

  • May 2, 20138:16 am
    by Tom Y.


    All I care is that in a few years, Drummond may be the best player of this draft class. He’s gonna make a lot of GM’s and writers look real stupid.

  • May 2, 20138:24 am


    Beal continued to improve each month, cant knock him for getting PT and the injury didnt help Drummond Much either

  • May 2, 201310:44 am
    by Clint in Flint


    I am so glad Frank is gone!

    • May 2, 201310:50 am
      by G


      And THIS would be the proper forum for that.

      It’ll be interesting to see how this draft class plays out in 5 years’ time. My guess is Lilliard will be the 4th or 5th best pro in the group, and Davis, Drummond, Beal and Waiters or MKG all rank higher.

      • May 2, 201312:07 pm
        by tarsier


        I’d be a bit surprised by Waiters. The other 4 look like good bets.

        • May 2, 201312:14 pm
          by danny


          Actually agreeing with you.  MKG if he gets a jump shot has the potential to be better but I have not watched enough to determine that.

        • May 2, 201312:48 pm
          by G


          Yeah, I almost didn’t put Waiters down. The other 4 guys are all 19-20, and Lillard is 22. Lillard just doesn’t have the potential to improve that the other guys do.

  • May 2, 201311:40 am
    by Big Rick


    Just got word that supposedly Drummond asked The Dream to train him this summer. If that’s true you gotta love the desire to get better by the young man. 

    • May 2, 201312:16 pm
      by danny


      This better not be a joke.  Drummond on the block with 3 moves would be deadly.  A baby hook, up and under, and maybe a running hook.  Hopefully he does all these plays on the low block.  Then learns how to shot a ft averages 15 points a game. 

    • May 2, 201312:54 pm
      by tarsier


      It’d be great for him to learn something from Olajuwon. But he should really go to Rick Barry to learn to shoot a free throw.

      • May 2, 20131:06 pm
        by G


        That would be a mistake. Rick Barry isn’t 6’10″. Drummond needs to learn from a big guy, bigs have a whole different set of problems with FT’s. Hakeem was 6’10″ and shot 71 FT% for his career, he’ll do.

        • May 2, 20131:40 pm
          by tarsier


          The point wasn’t his size. The point was that he mastered a technique for which height, and an enormous back and shoulders, don’t get in the way. Also, it is a much simpler motion, with reduced potential for hitches. And it’s not using the same muscles players use all game, so there are no fatigue issues. And people avoid imitating him just because it look silly.

          I mean, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. But Drummond should spend at least a year trying to master the underhanded free throw. Because without major improvement from the stripe, he will not dominate.

        • May 2, 20131:45 pm
          by tarsier


          Tell me what problems of the Rick Barry free throw are different for bigs and 6’7″ “smalls”.

          • May 2, 20132:10 pm
            by G

            Bigger hands, longer arms, longer legs, more complication in the motion, different angle of a shot…

            Also, didn’t Barry shoot his FT’s underhand? Are you advocating Drummond start scooping his FT’s? 

          • May 2, 20132:10 pm
            by G

            I’d rather he just bank it in every time.

          • May 2, 20132:37 pm
            by tarsier

            Yes, the underhanded shot is the exact point. None of those factors dramatically alter the underhand shooting motion.

            Size does screw with a typical overhand shot, making it more complicated. Rick Barry was not a particularly great shooter (career 28% from three) but he was one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time.

            And yeah, I’d advocate anyone who struggles with free throws to at least give scooping them a fair shake. 

          • May 2, 20132:50 pm
            by danny

            Bigger hands do not mean that it should be harder to shoot.  KD has super long arms and longer legs and he can shot.  He just has bad mechanics plan and simple.  Being bigger should make it easier by statistics because they are higher off the ground and “closer to the bucket”  Their arms can get closer to the rim as well when they release, technically speaking.  I do not buy this big hands long arms ordeal.  I’m sure yao was bigger and longer than drummond and he was damn near 90%. 

          • May 2, 20133:11 pm
            by G

            Bigger hands make it more complicated.

            @ Tarsier – those 3pt shooting stats for Barry would’ve been his ABA numbers… Before he reinvented himself as an outside shooter. Barry had a GREAT outside shot when he was with the Warriors, but there was no 3pt line back then.

            Btw, Wilt shot an underhanded FT with little success. I think shooting a bank-shot FT would be better. 

          • May 2, 20133:23 pm
            by tarsier


            Ok, let’s just start by agreeing that it is hard to take anything away from Wilt’s stats.He was a freak. Statistically, the most dumbfounding player in NBA history.

            Also, I’m fine with Rick Barry’s ABA free throw shooting. Maybe it’s no longer on the level of all-time great free throw shooter. Instead it’s <just> year in year out, among the top free throw shooters in the league. My point remains that it was his form that allowed him to shoot so much better from the line than from the field.

            How does shooting bank shots help? I’m fine with Drummond trying it. He should be trying everything imaginable. But it just changes the target, it does not make the motion any simpler or anything, and it exacerbates the potential problems of too much or too little power.

            Shooting underhanded has a clear, mechanical advantage. 

          • May 2, 20133:33 pm
            by tarsier


            I honestly have no idea why big hands would be a problem. Maybe the fingertips get in the way of the initial trajectory of an optimally released ball. I’ve never seen much of a correlation between hand size in particular and shooting issues.

            As you pointed out, longer arms and legs should be an advantage as you start closer to the basket height.

            There are two main factors that really trip up big men. The first is kinda intuitive, there’s just not as many of them. So while a little guy with a poor shot would have almost no hope of making it into the NBA, big men offer other advantages such that they are often desirable in spite of poor FT shooting (and poor shooting in general).

            The second is having massive lats and shoulders. Those muscles significantly reduce flexibility and get directly in the way of proper arm placement for ideal form on a shot. The most visible example of this is Dwight Howard. he came into the league as a scrawny kid who shot 67% from the line. By his second season, he had really beefed up and has gradually increased his muscle mass ever since. So he basically shot 59% for years. And then came the lockout from which he returned with a bigger upper body than ever. And since then he has shot 49%.

            Not all, but most sweet shooting big men were not the huge hulking guys with particularly massive upper torsos. 

          • May 2, 20133:49 pm
            by G

            I wasn’t talking about Barry’s ABA FT shooting, I was talking about 3PT shooting. You said he was a bad shooter based on a career 3PT% that was south of .300. This isn’t really accurate, because he became a really good long-range shooter later in his career, only there was no 3PT line until his last season (he shot .330, higher than the league average of .280).

            In answer to your question about shooting bank shots for FT’s, most of Drummond’s problems have to do with touch (and presumably the mental aspect of it). The backboard absorbs a lot of impact & gives players some leeway with how hard they can shoot the ball. Tell Drummond he can throw it a little harder and you won’t see him air-balling FT’s like he did in Chicago. As an added bonus, it would be a little easier for the offense to rebound any misses.

            @ danny – the hand issue has to do with how the ball rests when shooting. I don’t remember exactly how it was described, but it had something to do with that.

          • May 2, 20134:18 pm
            by tarsier

            I understand what you were saying. My point was that he was a poor shooter, as evidenced by his 28% 3 pt shooting, but that despite being a bad shooter, he was a fantastic free throw shooter.

            The fact that he become a good shooter later in his career is irrelevant. The point is that a very poor shooter could hit 88% of his free throws.

            If it would help to refer to this poor shooter as “ABA Rick Barry” instead of just “Rick Barry”, let’s do that.

            The point is that, by simplifying the motion and removing awkward points where hitches can appear, a guy who sucks at shooting can convert FTs like a maniac. How is that not a fantastic reason to advocate Drummond attempting the same?

          • May 2, 20134:25 pm
            by G

            This is why I brought up Chamberlain, because the underhanded shot isn’t a fool proof way to increase FT%. I think banking it in is a safer bet.

          • May 2, 20134:40 pm
            by tarsier

            It’s not foolproof. But it is certainly worth trying. How is banking it any “safer”? What is the danger of underhanding it? And, quite frankly, I return to, it’s real hard to get anything meaningful out of Chamberlain. There’s a reason that, when making player comparisons, nobody ever says “the next Wilt”.

          • May 2, 20134:55 pm
            by G

            Barry flipped the ball in backwards (back of the hands towards the rim), which is not a natural basketball shot. I don’t know how long he used that shot, but it must’ve been back in middle school or high school. Teaching Drummond this shot would require him to learn a whole new technique in shooting, and one that has no relevance elsewhere on the court.

            The bank shot, on the other hand, is a shot Drummond already knows. It just decreases the degree of difficulty on FT’s. It also has relevance elsewhere on the court, so there’s added bonuses to him practicing that shot, and like I said before, it’s more likely that the offense would rebound any misses.

    • May 2, 20131:56 pm
      by MIKEYDE248


      Just because he asked, doesn’t mean that Olajuwon said he would, but it sure would be nice if he did.

      I think most of Drummonds problems with free throws is not just because of his size, but because of his very large hands.  The ball fits into them completely different than most players.  Same problem Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain had all their careers.  I have a feeling that he will always be a 50% or lower free throw shooter all his career.

  • May 2, 20131:37 pm
    by by key decisions know


    what do you guys think of a Monroe for Marc Gasol or Zac Randolph trade?

    • May 2, 20131:43 pm
      by tarsier


      I wouldn’t even think about trading him fr ZBo. Randolph is clearly on the decline and may have one or two more solid seasons (no more terrific ones) left in him.

      Gasol, I’d do. I’d have some hesitation because of age. But Gasol is just so good on both sides of the court, and there is no chance that he would be overpaid starting in 2014. Plus he could provide the floor spacing that would fit so well with Drummond. Basically, he is everything we can hope Monroe will become.

    • May 2, 20132:12 pm
      by G


      No way does Memphis do a Monroe-Gasol deal.

      • May 2, 20132:39 pm
        by tarsier


        True. And no way Detroit does a Randolph-Monroe deal. It was just a suggestion that gave three players with not particularly similar trade values.

  • May 2, 20132:18 pm
    by by key decisions know


    Monroe and other players?

    • May 2, 20132:21 pm
      by G


      Then why would the Pistons do that? They’re already super weak talent-wise. To be honest, I really don’t think they have anyone under contract Memphis would want, short of Drummond.

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