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Pistons roundtable: Wildcard questions

The (somewhat) annual Pistons roundtable has returned. Each day this week, our panel of Pistons writers will answer a question about the Pistons – all in one place. Please add your answers in the comments.

Drew Sharp, Detroit Free Press

Did this season show Tom Gores is being patient, or will it push him to show his impatience?

Gores made his fortune by nurturing an investment and maximizing its value. That demands patience and following a plan. I look for him to demand a playoff appearance next season and, as a result, I expect the Pistons to act more aggressively this off-season. But not impulsively. They won’t throw money at a problem simply because they possess the means.

Mike Payne, Detroit Bad Boys

If Jose Calderon leaves the Pistons this off-season, how big a setback would that be for Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe?

It would be unfortunate, but not an irreplaceable loss.  If Detroit can get ahold of Jarrett Jack’s agent before hitting the bargain bin and the trade market, I’ll feel better about the loss. Calderon should be looked at as a temporary solution anyway, and Detroit’s search for the next point guard should begin today, Calderon or not.  Bonus points for avoiding all combo guards in the search.

Phil Fattore, Pistons 101

Which Detroit bench player has had the most encouraging close to the season?

Jonas Jerebko’s recent resurgence is impressive, but the most encouraging bench player has been Khris Middleton. Scoring at least 10 points five times across March and April, Middleton is proving to be an efficient bench scorer. With Will Bynum’s expiring contract leaving his future unknown, it’s comforting to know that Middleton is capable of performing at a high level.

Daniel Poarch, Life on Dumars

What have we learned from Brandon Knight‘s post-injury play?

It’s been a year Knight would likely prefer to forget, but while he struggled after his return from injury in March, he’s still shown he can score as well as flashes of potential facilitating the offense. We’re still looking at more questions than answers, however. Is he a shooting guard or a point guard? A starter or a bench option? They’re questions the Pistons need to answer.

Eric Stafford, Life on Dumars

Do you see any hope for Brandon Knight at point guard?

There’s a little hope, but not much. Whether there’s hope or not, I still think he’s better suited to play shooting guard. That way the Pistons can cut down on the number of decisions he has to make with the ball. In the end he might fit better as a 6th man combo guard off the bench.

Thom Powell, Life on Dumars

Who has a brighter future, Kyle Singler or Khris Middleton?

Middleton has such a small sample size of production that I’m a bit reticent to pick him, but I’ll do it anyway. I thought Kim English would be the 2nd rounder that would play his way into the rotation, but Middleton made the most of Detroit’s end-of-season tank-fest and finished strong. Singler hit the rookie wall hard in 2013 and never really recovered. It doesn’t help his case that he’s three years older than Middleton, either.

Natalie Sitto, Need4Sheed.com

Did you get any joy from Rasheed Wallace’s comeback season with the Knicks?

Do NBA players like tattoos? It was nice to see Sheed play the roll that he’s comfortable with in the past few seasons.  Limited minutes, limited conditioning and hanging out behind the arc and knocking down three’s.  It’s hard to live in a world without Rasheed Wallace screaming "ball don’t lie!"

Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered

Rank the NBA prospects who played college basketball this season in the state of Michigan, regardless of whether they’re entering this year’s draft.

1. Trey Burke – He’s probably not a Chris Paul caliber player, but he might be Ty Lawson

2. Mitch McGary – I’d take him over Cody Zeller right now

3. Gary Harris – He’ll probably stay another year, but at worst, he’s a likely three and D shooting guard in the NBA

4. Adreian Payne – Another guy likely staying, expect Payne, projected as a second rounder this year, to be a top 15 prospect next year

5. Glen Robinson III – I’d like to see more of him playing a more natural wing position (he’s played a lot of four at Michigan), but he’s a NBA athlete and he can hit the corner three. Those are enough to get him on the court for someone.

6. Ray McCallum – Don’t sleep on the University of Detroit point guard, who was a bigger prospect than Burke and Keith Appling in high school. He turned down high major offers to play for his dad (it remains to be seen if that decision benefits him in the long run), but he can certainly play and he’ll get draft attention next year.

J.M. Poulard, PistonPowered

What do the Pistons do on the court that is most difficult for opponents to gameplan against?

The Pistons’ athleticism on the offensive boards was simply a nightmare for opponents. It didn’t matter how, they always managed to stick their noses in there for put backs.

Jameson Draper, PistonPowered

Should the Pistons consider re-signing Jason Maxiell?

No. Maxiell is dead weight to this team and is not providing anything in any facet of the game. Detroit has enough young big men (Monroe, Drummond, Kravtsov, Jerebko) and could use the extra roster spot to sign someone better. Maxiell will be very cheap, but it’s still not worth it.

Brady Fredericksen, PistonPowered

What do you make of Rodney Stuckey‘s strong finish to the season?

Nothing. He’s done this in 2011, 2010 and 2009, too. Five years into his career, there’s no real explanation as to why he seems to get hot late, but the one thing that is clear is that he can’t sustain that pace during the parts of the season that actually matter.


  • Apr 21, 201310:05 pm
    by Fennis


    Real GM had an interesting blurb about Eric Bledsoe being available this summer given the Clippers salary cap constraints after a Chris Paul re-sign. I think the Pistons could get him for a young player like Jerebko and a second rounder if they agree take on one of the Clippers bad contracts. We have the cap space to make it happen.

    Bledsoe/Monroe/Drummond has big-three potential.  

    • Apr 22, 201312:05 am
      by tarsier


      I like Bledsoe in his current role. But I’m not sure what he offers that Knight doesn’t. Better D. Slightly better ball control. Worse shooting. I guess he is a bit more of a PG. But I certainly wouldn’t invest big money in him.

    • Apr 22, 20131:21 am
      by domnick


      i like bledsoe… if we are going to get him over jarret jack then do it…

    • Apr 22, 20134:23 am
      by Mark


      I like Bledsoe and I’d trade for him, but I don’t expect him to be any all-star PG, especially not a superstar, imo. So don’t see a Big 3 there. But he’d make a really nice PG to compliment Drummond/Moose and run the show on offense. He’d be an upgrade over anything we have now (assuming Jose doesn’t come back), and we do need a PG. With none good in FA, he should be one of Joe’s trade targets this summer. Offer up anything on the roster other than Dre/Moose.

      No money should be spent on Jarrett Jack. Please no.


      • Apr 22, 20138:31 am
        by G


        Why not? Jack’s D isn’t that much an upgrade over Calderon’s, but he’s got a decent handle and a good shot.

        • Apr 22, 20139:36 am
          by tarsier


          I’d rather have Calderon. He has an insanely efficient offensive game that can easily be scaled up or down. And he’s been much more historically consistent than Jack.

          • Apr 22, 20139:45 am
            by G

            I agree with that, just asking why he’d rule out Jack. 

  • Apr 21, 201311:35 pm
    by MrCarter


    Im hoping we pursue guys like Darren Collison, Corey Brewer, Brandan Wright, and maybe Ty Evans this summer. These are guys that can play but wont command major money like CP3 and Dwight obviously will. But before anything, as they said in this interview, they gotta decide where Knights fits with this team. PG or SG? Bench or starter? Staying or going??

    • Apr 22, 201312:09 am
      by tarsier


      I’m cool with any of them, but only if they are signed on the cheap, and with smart, frontloaded deals.

      • Apr 22, 20136:03 am
        by MrCarter


        And I certainly hope we do NOT go after Mayo. Think about it for a minute….

        -a former 3rd overall pick in his draft class
        -an undersized combo gaurd
        -plays very little defense
        -has a reputation as a chucker
        -accustomed to 6th man roles early in his career
        -takes 5 years for him to finally become a consistent starter
        -has a great season and will now be searchin for big bucks

        REMIND YOU OF ANYONE!?!?(hint: summer/2009)

  • Apr 22, 20131:12 am
    by domnick


    What do you make of Rodney Stuckey‘s strong finish to the season?

    i wanna answer this part..
    first, Stuckey for me was a dissapointment.. he showed promise during the 07-08 season but then he was handed the starter role during the 08-09 season after chauncey got traded… and he’s not ready… i am dissapointed to see stuckey turned out and playing like this… although past coaches like kuester and frank deserved blame for putting stuckey in a bad position to succeed…

    we need to trade stuckey

  • Apr 22, 20131:29 am
    by Lorenzo


    A lot will depend on Knight as mentioned. But I dunno why a number of people seem infatuated with Ty Evans on here. He is an O.K. player but apart from flashes of initial promise he hasn’t progressed any…in fact he seems to be doing the exact opposite and regressing each successive year. He seems to very much have the career trajectory mimicking Rodney Stuckey with an equally poor shooting touch to boot. We all have our favorites I suppose….but Evans doesn’t seem to make a lot of basketball sense INMHO.

    If we do go shopping for a guard (A 1 guard specifically) I would also back the Bledsoe option. He is an explosive player that would really add a missing ‘pop’ to our back court. Price will dictate a lot of course, but I think he worth a look if the price is right.  

    • Apr 22, 20133:13 am
      by Jon


      i agree that tyreke has been somewhat of a disappointment after his rookie year but his first year he was viewed as a potential superstar. since then he has had to deal with changing coaches, changing cities, and most importantly playing with cousins. i don’t think playing with cousins makes any player look good as he is a me-first player who has to have the ball in his hands a certain number of times per game or he’s going to throw a fit. also this year he scored less but more efficiently than in the past.  i think detroit should take a chance on him this year with a front loaded contract that allows the chance to evaluate him before giving him big money and a long contract. he still has a chance to be the all star he was once destined to be and passing on that potential would be crazy for a team that has no all stars on it currently

      • Apr 22, 20139:14 am
        by vic


        agreed. Tyreke has been more efficient and the talent is still there. I think a good situation would get him on track.

        • Apr 22, 20139:55 am
          by Aruna


          Are the Pistons really a good situation?  I assume a good situation for Tyreke is a 6th man role on a contending team with a strong leadership core.  I assume a lot of his issues come from having/trying to be THE MAN in Sacramento and then trying to fit his game into a complementary role with Cousins.  Where I think he fits best is a Manu / JR Smith role not trying to play point guard for the Pistons.

          • Apr 22, 201311:50 am
            by Jon

            that could be his role although i’d rather see that be knights role and tyreke to step into the starting 2 spot. i definitely don’t think pg is the position for him 

    • Apr 22, 20132:00 pm
      by oats


      It’s sort of been hinted at, but Tyreke hasn’t consistently been regressing. He regressed in his second year, but since then he has steadily improved. What has dropped is his shot attempts. His 3rd year he was making shots at the same rate as his rookie year, and this year he is more efficient than he’s ever been. I feel pretty comfortable saying he isn’t a point guard, but he has turned himself in to a pretty good shooting guard.
      All of that said, I don’t want him. This is the only year he has shot the 3 even ok, and this season was still just at 33.8%. That just makes him a poor fit for a team looking to stretch the court around the Drummond/Monroe front court pairing.

  • Apr 22, 20134:31 am
    by Mark


    The mention of Knight being better at SG because less chance to make mistakes is exactly why he should be coming off the bench, or traded. 

    When you are trying to build a team, you want to put players at positions because of things they excel at, not because of weaknesses you are trying to hide. Thats no way of succeeding as a team. 

    In other words, we need to go get a SG because he’s a damn good SG, not because we are obligated to play him somewhere because we drafted him at 8, and at SG he will cause the least damage. 

    Simply put. Knight is not a starting PG and there are better starting SGs available. So either make him into a longterm 6th man, like Jamal Crawford or Jason Terry, or we need to trade him. I don’t think we are going anywhere with Knight in the starting lineup. 

    • Apr 22, 20134:33 am
      by Mark


      That doesn’t mean he can’t play 25-30 mpg for us still, just do it off the bench as a 3rd option guard, instead of part of the starting backcourt. I think we can do better at both starting guard positions.

      • Apr 22, 201310:25 am
        by Scott Free


        He’s the 3rd spoke in a 3 guard rotation (coming in as either pg or sg depending on matchups).  He’d certainly do a more capable job at it than Stuckey.  

        That said, I’d like to pair him with faster paced pg and sg if possible.  I like Calderone, but he’s a player for a team with an advanced defensive identity in need of a floor general.  The Pistons are so young, I’d like to get a young fast-paced point guard to pair with them.  Since rebounding is clearly the squads strength, and we have one good, and one reasonable passing big man in our starting lineup, I think that unit could lend itself to the fast break.  I know its impossible, but a player like John Wall with Knight coming in as a backup sg would be lightning in a bottle for 25 minutes a game.

  • Apr 22, 20139:09 am
    by David Konkel


    With a top pick coming into the upcoming draft, and having some space left in the cap to be aggressive this off season, would it be smart to draft Trey Burke? Knowing we need a true point guard and then sign someone like Andre Iguadola or Danny Granger or someone like them in the off season? Thus giving us the starting 5 of, Burke, Knight, Iguadola, monroe and drummond?

    • Apr 22, 20139:47 am
      by G


      Burke is probably gone by the time the Pistons pick. Both Orlando and New Orleans need a PG badly.

      • Apr 22, 201310:27 am
        by tarsier


        The absence of Smart from the draft really throws things. Depending who wins the lottery, Burke could be a consideration as high as first overall.

        • Apr 22, 201310:38 am
          by G


          Probably not though. Orlando takes Noel if they get the #1, NO probably takes McLemore or Porter. I wouldn’t rule Burke out though, especially if he kills it in the workouts. Is it Thorpe that likes Burke for #1 overall?

          • Apr 22, 201312:50 pm
            by tarsier

            I don’t expect he goes there. I just think a number of franchises would at least be considering him there.

            Suns, Pistons, Hornets, Magic, and Kings, Mavs, and Jazz could all use a PG. Cavs, Wiz, Wolves, Blazer and Sixers obviously wouldn’t go for a PG. And the Cats and Raps could use a PG but have a much bigger hole at C.

            So that’s a 56.7% chance that Burke would at least garner consideration. Probably less than a 10% shot that he actually goes there, but there’s a chance.

            And yeah, Thorpe is the guy who likes him there. 

      • Apr 22, 201311:41 am
        by I HATE FRANK


        Hornets need a PG BADLY? Vasques averaged 9ast 14ppg …..

        • Apr 22, 201311:53 am
          by G


          Yup, and every projection I’ve seen has them taking Porter if they can get him, and if not then Burke.

          • Apr 22, 201310:31 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Not Happening… I bet almost anything they go big

        • Apr 22, 201311:54 am
          by Jon


          yeah i don’t understand why they need one so bad. he’s tall too so even though he’s not an elite athlete he can still play decent team defense knowing he’s got an eventual all star shot blocker behind him

          • Apr 22, 201312:16 pm
            by G

            His D is bad, his shot isn’t that good, he’s not very efficient offensively (13.9 ppg on 13 FGA)… His one good point is his play-making, which is pretty good. Burke would be an upgrade in the rest of those while maybe not quite as good a playmaker. Ford seemed pretty sure Burke was high on the Pelicans’ draft board.

          • Apr 22, 201312:47 pm
            by Jon

            im not saying you’re wrong but it seems that vasquez is severely under appreciated 

          • Apr 22, 201310:35 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Only can see it if the plan to move vasquez…Len just makes sense to me there …but we will see

          • Apr 23, 201312:22 am
            by oats

            Vasquez plays crappy D and their coach supposedly really wants to move him. On top of that, they think he’s going to demand too much money when he is a free agent after next season. The rumor is that if they can get a point guard they like they will start shopping Vasquez before they end up in a situation where they might have to let him walk for nothing.
            I think Len is a long shot for the Hornets. I think their preference is for either Porter or Burke if they stay at 5. If they either miss on both or decide not to go with Burke, I think they are more likely to take Muhammad than Len. That team really needs a small forward and center is just less of a priority. While neither Davis or Anderson are centers, they are both starting quality big men. I think they’d feel much more comfortable with that than with what they have at small forward. Plus, Len is a pretty pedestrian prospect. Not that I’m all that fond of Muhammad either, but a lot of teams seem to disagree with me on that idea.
            If I was to guess on their draft board, I bet it looks something like: Noel, Porter, McLemore, Burke, Muhammad, Len. Oladipo could jump Len if they are worried about Gordon’s health. I also am assuming they would just take McLemore over Burke despite all the rumors pointing towards them going the other direction with that decision. I think even they have to be aware that McLemore is the better prospect and they also shouldn’t be that sold on Gordon’s health.

          • Apr 23, 20139:50 am
            by tarsier

            The top four could very easily be Noel, Porter, McLemore, and Burke. It’d be great if NO took either Len or Muhammad. The most likely cause of the top 6 guys going in the top 6 picks is if someone early falls in love with Bennett.

        • Apr 22, 20131:04 pm
          by tarsier


          Vasquez put up nice numbers but never played exceptionally well.

          • Apr 22, 20131:32 pm
            by G

            Which is why you have to look deeper than ppg and assists.

  • Apr 22, 20139:26 am
    by Steve K


    Someone posted on here a few days ago that the most important thing for this team to do is figure out who they are.
    That’s an organizational decision. Basically, Joe D needs to look at his roster and figure out what would give this team the best opportunity to win.
    As JM Poulard wrote, the Pistons are excellent offensive rebounders. That’s a good place to start. Knight, Drummond, and JJ are also willing defenders. They’re not good defenders, but they’re at least willing. If they add a piece like Oladipo, they could become a decent defensive team that pounds it inside on offense.
    Regardless, they need an identity. It starts with Drummond.

    • Apr 22, 201312:12 pm
      by Jon


      going with that defense/ rebounding identity, given the opportunity, i think it’d be worth it to trade both our 2nd rounders to move into the late 1st round and take tony mitchell. he rebounds really well and blocks a ton of shots. his shooting percentages dipped a good deal this season but he has shown promise before hitting 43% of threes in his first year. it’s possible he’s better than shabazz already when factoring in defense and he certainly has better tools to work with to get better

    • Apr 22, 20131:06 pm
      by tarsier


      Just get the best players you can and then let them form an identity. Don’t constrain yourself to an identity and then try to get who fits into that best.

  • Apr 22, 20139:56 am
    by MIKEYDE248


    I can’t believe that Tim Hardaway Jr. didn’t make the top 5 in Michigan.  I think he had a much better year than Glen Robinson III.  GR3 might have a higher ceiling, but Hardaway way out performed him this year.

    • Apr 22, 201310:29 am
      by tarsier


      For draft picks outside of the lottery, ceiling matters way more than floor.

  • Apr 22, 201310:21 am
    by sop


    Hayes put McGary over Gary Harris which is ridiculous! Does he realize that you have to look at the whole season and not just 2 or three games. McGary was dominated by Nix in both meetings. Don’t forget that McGary is 21 and Harris 18 years old. Harris is going to be so incredibly much better than Monster. Not to mention that while Harris struggled through injury McGary sat on the bench. Harris is so much more skilled than McGary this shouldn’t even be a conversation.

    • Apr 22, 201310:47 am
      by G


      McGary is 20, Harris is 18. Both have birthdays between now and the start of next season, so 21 & 19.

      McGary was in double-double territory 6 of the last 8 games he played, and I’d still got some questions about Harris’s durability. His shot was really streaky, and that shoulder makes me wonder if it will ever happen for him.  

      • Apr 22, 20131:07 pm
        by tarsier


        I’d still take Harris over McGary though. Two years of difference is a big deal.

    • Apr 22, 201310:48 am
      by G


      I never understood why McGary was on the bench. He was clearly a better player than Horford and Morgan were, even earlier in the season.

  • Apr 22, 201312:07 pm
    by frankie d


    a guard the pistons should look at if they cannot get burke: dennis schroeder.
    he’s a german kid who is a rondo clone.  you can tell he’s been watching rondo videos for a while.
    the nike hoop summit just happened here in portland this weekend and schroeder was one of the more impressive kids.  he dominated all of the supposedly best american kids.
    he’s a great defender, with a rondo-like ability to track the ball as the offensive man brings the ball upcourt.  he’s got those crazy long rondo like arms also, with excellent speed and quickness.
    he runs the pick and roll extremely well, and you can just see that he’s had excellent coaching, as he has that ability to slip the ball to the dive man at all kind of weird angles.  he’s shooting well from the 3 point line though his shot looks a little mechanical and not fluid.  again, his numbers are solid, but he doesn’t have a stephen curry like stroke. 
    he doesn’t appear to have a mid range game, which he will need to keep defenders honest when he runs the pick and roll, but he seems so solid, fundamentally, that he looks like he should be able to develop that shot.
    again, he looks like rondo, both physically and with his game, but he seems to have a good 3 point shot at this stage.  
    if i’m joe d and miss out on burke, i think i’d seriously look at schroeder.  in fact, i’d rank burke and schroeder 1 and 1a, if only because of schroeder’s far superior speed, quickness and ability to defend.  you can just tell that he really, truly enjoys that part of the game.  he has an extremely high level of intensity, defensively.   either gamble on him at the 7 spot, or trade down a few spots, get another second round pick and try to get him somewhere late lottery.
    this kid is going to be a player and with his ability to defend, run the pick and roll and hit the 3, he has a solid base of skills to build on.
    he just might be a great consolation prize if they lose burke. 

    • Apr 22, 201312:46 pm
      by G


      Hang on… The Schroeder kid looks ok, but are you putting him practically even with Burke? On the basis of 1 game? 

      So far I’ve seen like 3 highlight videos of Schroeder and this is what I see – quick, good handle, can get to the rack & get his shot against taller players, good range, awkward jumper that takes too long to get off, not a lot of passing…

      With international players you have to beware of falling into 2 traps – falling in love with a small sample size, and level of competition. 

  • Apr 22, 20131:51 pm
    by frankie d


    in terms of potential, yes, i’d put him nearly on burke’s level.
    burke would die to have schroeder’s speed and quickness, which is truly elite.
    don’t get me wrong…if i have the chance i take burke.  he’s proven, imho, that he is going to be able to take his game to the next level and excel.  i’ve been posting that thought for months now and i certainly haven’t changed my mind about burke.
    however, schroeder is a revelation.  
    you don’t need to see a bunch of games to see certain things.  his speed, his quickness, his ability to just freeze guys with his dribble.  his defensive intensity – which by all accounts is a constant – is also very obvious and special.  guys like him, who pressure the ballhandler and who have the speed and quickness and length and willingness to do so consistently, well those are the kind of guys who can spearhead a very good defense.  you can see that stuff immediately.
    the most impressive thing about him, in addition to his defensive pressure, is his ability to run the pick and roll.  that is always the result of good coaching and you can just see that he’s been coached extremely well in that regard.  plus, he has the court vision to see how plays are developing in order to get a pass to a dive man.  that court vision is most times just innate, but it is also something that can be refined with good coaching.  plus, he is just really good at finding ways to slip a pass to a cutter, in ways that show a great deal of creativity and coaching about angles.  if only rodney stuckey had enjoyed that type of coaching early in his playing career, he might be an all-star point guard.
    i’ve been watching high school players – and college players – for 5 decades now.   i was on the same court with and tried to play a little ball with guys like bubba hawkins and larry fogle.   (i even saw a grossly overweight mark agguire the summer before he went to depaul do some things that literally made everyone in the gym stand up and gasp, in a high school all star game.)  i know a little something about the things that make good BB players.
    i never watch highlights in order to make judgments about players.
    of the top 8 players in the draft – noel, mclemoree, bennett, oladipo, zeller, burke, porter, muhammed  - i’ve seen about 5 entire games of each player, except for bennett, who i’ve watched twice.  if i haven’t watched a player play a game or a couple of games, i won’t comment on him. 
    i’m confident in my ability to watch guys and discern certain things about them.  this is my hobby.
    in fact, i’d be willing to make a friendly wager about schroeder now.  that he will be drafted somewhere between 10 and 20…that if he goes somewhere where he can get on the court and get about 15-20 minutes of PT, that he will establish himself next year.
    i’d take him now over williams, if only because of his superior shot.  i definitely like williams, but his inability to make a jumper from anywhere might prove his achilles heel.

    • Apr 22, 20132:20 pm
      by G


      It’s REALLY early, but sure, I’d bet $1,000 fake dollars Schroeder doesn’t go in the 1st round. How many of the players in his league are close to NBA level?

      Again, basing that off of one game? I’d take Ray McCallum over this kid any day. Check his stats:

      The assist/turnover ratio is pretty bad, his FG% isn’t very good (keep in mind that’s twos only), and his 3pt shot is suspect. He’d be worth a 2nd round pick, just because you could stash him in Europe for a couple years, but the kid looks like a project. 

      • Apr 22, 20133:54 pm
        by frankie d


        ok G, you’re on.
        for $100 fake internet dollars, i’ll wager that schroder goes in the first round.
        i’ve just seen a couple of mccallum’s games but he seems limited by his lack of length and his physical limitations.  not a bad player and i might look at him as a late second rounder, but he always reminds me of jacques vaughn, in my mind, the prototypical good college/mediocre pro player.
        for instance, even though schroder is about an inch or so taller, he has almost 5 inches in length on mccallum.  almost a half foot in extra length.  that will make a huge difference, especially defensively.  joe d has always valued length, also. 
        so, yea, i’ll take you up on that bet.  it will be interesting to see how it plays out.  i think schroder may have played himself into the first round with his game here in portland. 

        • Apr 22, 20133:59 pm
          by G


          Sweet. This will be the easiest fake $1,000 I ever made since I raided the Monopoly bank.

        • Apr 22, 20134:02 pm
          by frankie d


          fake $1000′s i should say,  not 100.  why be cheap about something so fake?

          • Apr 22, 20134:03 pm
            by frankie d

            don’t spend it before you earn it.  i have a feeling i’m going to “pocket” the winnings!

        • Apr 22, 20134:28 pm
          by oats


          He seems like the kind of project guy good teams love to stash in Europe. I really like the odds that San Antonio would take him if he was sitting around still. I just don’t feel strongly enough about it to jump in this bet, I think the odds don’t really favor either side that strongly.
          I’d be happy if Schroeder slid to where Detroit could get him, and Detroit might be able to package their two second rounders for one of those late first rounders to secure a chance at Schroeder. Of course, if Reggie Bullock is still there the way a lot of mock drafts predict I’d take Bullock over Schroeder every time. Let me throw in Karasev, Withey, Deng, Franklin, and Shane Larkin as guys I’d rather get and might be available late in the first round.

  • Apr 22, 20132:04 pm
    by frankie d


    btw, if you have the time check out the hoop summit.  it is a major event here in portland every year and every year you get a peek at the guys who will be showing up on draft lists a couple of years later.
    much better than video highlights,, which, imho are pretty useless. 

    • Apr 22, 20132:30 pm
      by G


      Agree, a lot of the time highlight videos usually don’t show much. I tend to look for athleticism & explosiveness, and especially what TYPE of play makes the player’s highlight video. For Schroeder I saw a TON of teardrop shots and open threes. He had a few steals-breakaway dunks, but not much passing. This pretty much matches what his stat sheet shows.

      There are several problems with using the Nike Hoop Summit to evaluate a player, but the first that comes to mind is defense. Playing against high schoolers, it’s pretty easy to exploit gaps in the defense. 

      • Apr 22, 20132:39 pm
        by oats


        It’s also basically an All Star game. That means guys aren’t comfortable with each other, and defenses tend to be even more basic to account for the guys not having a common system. Offenses are similarly dumbed down without the time to set up many plays. The Hoop Summit, like any All Star game, is one of the greatest pick up games there is. It makes it hard to use it for more than the most basic evaluations such as size, athletic ability, and hustle. You can also find some negatives like struggling to get off clean looks against good athletes or bigger defenders. Hard to do much more than that though.

      • Apr 22, 20133:13 pm
        by frankie d


        sure.  it is nothing but an all star game, but what happens is that guys like to use it as a forum to show their stuff.  so you will usually get a chance to see a player do some of the things they do best.  i really don’t look at it the same way you’d look at a regular game performance, but you do get to measure a player’s skills, and athleticism against other players who are allegedly on their same level.  
        i’ll never forget seeing agguire, who had to be over 325 pounds at the time – trust me he was not just overweight, he was plain old fat! – take off from outside the lane, on the baseline and just float, like the hindenburg blimp, all the way to the basket, where he finger-rolled the ball in.  just an amazing display of athleticism from a guy who was obviously eating too many cheeseburgers while he was waiting to go to college.  the entire gym just stood up and gasped.  it was hard to believe a kid that big and fat could do something so graceful and smooth and explosive.  that is the kind of stuff that you can see in that type of game, and it can be valuable to know guys have that kind of talent when you see them in a regular game context.
        on the other hand, a guy who depends on structure and half court execution will probably look pretty lost in this type of game.
        by the way, the player who was most impressive – along with schroder and wiiggins – was probably julius randle.  he looks like zach randolph with hops.  pretty awesome player.  jabari parker is also nice, but he is a weird player.  he looks like a puffed up grant hill, with the same type of skill and versatility and about 30 pounds.

        • Apr 22, 20134:08 pm
          by oats


          I thought Karasev looked ok. His shot was really off, but that’s not what I was looking for really. Even good shooters have bad shooting days. He looked comfortable as a spot up shooter, just kind of finding his spot and taking shots you want him taking. He wasn’t trying to force anything, just played the way you’d want him to play. He also looked to be a decent enough athlete to play on the wing. I’d say when you throw in his good shooting numbers from Europe he looks like a a real NBA player. He reminds me a good deal of Klay Thompson, and I suspect that if there was a do over on the 2011 draft Thompson would go much higher than he did. I currently have Karasev rated just outside of the lottery and I think he could be a steal if he slips past 20 or so, which is where he is often mocked at. This is also an example of how much stock I put in the Hoops Summit. I’m mostly looking to see if a guy looks comfortable playing with that caliber of athletes, and Karasev did just enough to pass that test.
          Schroeder played well, but his entire resume doesn’t tell me he’s competing with Burke for the top point guard in the draft. I guess he might be almost by default because of the limitations on the other guys, but even still he has to be clearly the second guy at best and not in a 1a situation. What we know of Schroeder suggests he doesn’t belong in the top 10. Schroeder is an NBA athlete and has decent length for his position, but it looks like he’ll be a project to turn into the kind of guy you want running an NBA offense. I don’t think any point guard other than Burke belongs in the top 10, so that leaves him grouped with all of them as guys I don’t want Detroit targeting in the first round. Detroit likely has the 7th pick in the draft and I’m not buying any of the other point guards that high, except possibly CJ McCollum. I say except possibly McCollum because I’m unconvinced he’s a point guard, but I at least have a top 10 grade on him.
          Just keep in mind Avery Bradley was awesome in the Hoops Summit. He’s not a bad player, but he’s not exactly a stud either. He’s hardly the only example. Austin Rivers also looked dominant, and he just had one of the worst rookie years of any top 10 draft pick ever. Bismack Biyombo is an interesting prospect still, but he hasn’t lived up to his level of dominance at the Summit.

          • Apr 22, 20135:12 pm
            by frankie d

            i guess i agree about schroder looking good, by default, as i really don’t see anything else really intriguing after burke as far as point guards are concerned.
            burke is definitely the best PG in the draft.  
            cj mccollum has always seemed more SG than point.
            i really like MCWilliams, but i wonder if he’ll ever be able to shoot worth a darn and his lack of a decent shot killed him at times last year.  i can only imagine it would get worse in the nba.
            i do think, however, that in terms of PG skills and athleticism and the probability that those skills will translate to the next level, schroder is the best guy i’ve seen all year, next to burke.
            personally, i think schroder showed the kind of speed and quickness that will intrigue nba scouts and gms.  additionally, he was playing against the best players of his age, and he dominated those guys.  he made harrison, supposedly the top incoming freshman PG next season look bad.  harrison could not do anything with him and harrison is supposed to be coming in to kentucky to lead one of college BB’s all-time classes.
            not saying that it guarantees anything, but, as far as showing one’s game and potential, it doesn’t get any more challenging that this game for a kid like schroder.
            by the way, just saw this from chad ford on espn on schroder:
             Dennis Schroeder | PG | Germany

            [+] Enlarge 
            Chad Ford/ESPNSchroeder has elite physical tools and could jump into the first round this year.

            Schroeder has been the star of the World Team in practices this week in Portland. Blessed with elite quickness, speed and a huge Rajon Rondo-esque 6-foot-7 wingspan, he been able to penetrate at will and has shown great improvement in his court vision. He made a number of terrific passes and showed he could stop on a dime, elevate and hit jumpers.
            “He’s never really played with athletes,” one NBA scout said. “You see him figuring it out and throwing lobs and finding guys. He didn’t do that in Germany. I’m really impressed with how he looks when surrounded with talent.”
            If he can duplicate what we’ve seen in practices againstAndrew Harrison, Team USA’s lead guard and a projected top-5 pick in the 2014 NBA draft, Schroeder will catapult into the first round this year.

            ford posted this before schroder had such a nice game saturday.
            karasev looked like he could be a shooter.  he’s certainly not shy, but he looked a little awkward, like he might have trouble getting his shot off against nba athletes.  as you noted, his numbers are solid and he definitely seems to shoot with confidence, which is always important for shooters.
            with schroder, i’d do my due dilligence with him, watch him closely at the combine and if he measures out and passes all the tests, i’d probably be inclined, if it was my decision, to try to trade down a bit and grab him somewhere around the late lottery.  or if i really fell in love with him, i might even take him at 7.  again, everything would depend on doing a ton of work in preparation of the draft.
            i doubt that he will last till the late 20′ s like tony parker did when SA took him. 

  • Apr 22, 20133:16 pm
    by frankie d


    there is another kid, livio jean charles who is a rodman-like defensive player with a high energy level.  he might be worth a look in the second round.  very active, very long, good rebounder and a good defender. raw offensively, but he is so active, he gets points just by being around the rim.

    • Apr 22, 20133:38 pm
      by G


      Add a consistent 3pt shot & I’d be interested. He plays in a more competitive league than Schroeder does too. Pistons could grab him with the 56th pick and stash him in Europe for a few years until he gets his whole game together.

    • Apr 22, 20133:58 pm
      by G


      Just looked at his stats… pass. He doesn’t rebound at an especially high rate, doesn’t block shots at a high rate either. Don’t see the Rodman comp. He might have a decent shot, but it’s hard to tell, small sample size.

      • Apr 22, 20134:12 pm
        by frankie d


        the guy is just very active.  he gets his hands on lots of balls, is involved in lots of plays around the basket especially.  i say rodman like simply because of that activity level and his willingness to do nothing but defend and scrap around the basket.  he got 23 points the other night and i don’t think they ran a single play for him all night.  depending on what he does at the combines, he might be worth a late second round pick.  
        with the euros, it is always tough, though to project their game stats to nba production.  
        and with him, for whatever reason his minutes have fluctuated. 

        • Apr 22, 20134:20 pm
          by G


          He gets 6.8 rebounds per 36 minutes. That’s REALLY low, worse than Charlie V’s rebounding rate and closer to Austin Daye’s. A player like him will excel at the Nike Hoop Summit because he lives off of misses, and there are a lot of misses in that game. 

          Besides rebounding (which he doesn’t do all that well), what does he get you? Not much on offense, and he doesn’t get enough blocks or steals to suggest he’s anything special on defense. I’m willing to bet there are better options, even at pick 56.

      • Apr 22, 20134:14 pm
        by oats


        The Rodman comp is pretty much solely based on his 13 rebounds in fewer than 28 minutes at the Summit, and 7 of those were on the offensive glass. He also blocked 2 shots and put up 27 points on 13 shots. He was 10 of 13 from the field and 7 of 10 at the line. It seems interesting that the rebounding and shot blocking makes him Rodman but the dunking everything in sight doesn’t draw a Shawn Marion comparison.

        • Apr 22, 20134:21 pm
          by G


          Check his Euro-league stats & get back to me:

          • Apr 22, 20134:37 pm
            by oats

            I’m not arguing with you on that one. I might be willing to gamble on Livio with pick 56 though. I think with that pick you should look for a guy with something resembling a single NBA skill and hope he develops more than that. Livio looked like an NBA athlete in that game, and that’s enough to be considered for pick 56. I’d rank him below several guys that are often left off even second round mock drafts though. Doug Anderson from Detroit and DJ Stephens from Memphis look like NBA athletes. Sherwood Brown from Florida Gulf Coast is less athletic but a much better shooter. Some people even have Pierre Jackson down there just because of his height. I guess they forgot about Isaiah Thomas in Sacramento. Hell, Glen Rice Jr. is sometimes projected that low and I’d think long and hard about him at pick 38. Livio’s biggest asset is the ability to be stashed in Europe and hope they turn him in to something. I was just answering your question on where the Rodman comp came from, not arguing it’s validity.

          • Apr 22, 20134:50 pm
            by G

            If Glen Rice Jr is available at pick 38, TAKE HIM. He’s killing the D league.

            The one advantage of taking Livio is you can stash him for 2 or 3 years. It’s basically a throwaway pick anyway, so taking a player you can stash plays to your advantage. I’m just concerned that his athleticism isn’t translating into production. Still, it’s only pick 56. What the hell, why not? 

          • Apr 22, 20135:12 pm
            by oats

            I have a first round grade on Rice, and the only way I’d pass on him is if a higher first round pick also slipped that low. Basically, only after the league messed up on a bunch of picks would Rice be someone I’d pass on. It seems like such an unlikely event that I probably shouldn’t even bring it up, but the NBA does sometimes do stupid things. That scenario isn’t likely, so I would say taking Rice at 38 would be practically a lock for me.

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