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Pistons move ahead of Wizards in draft slotting, get Clippers’ second-round pick

The Pistons won both drawings for determining draft order today.

Most importantly, if neither the Pistons nor Wizards move up in the lottery, Detroit will pick ahead of Washington. The Pistons also get one more lottery combination than the Wizards.

In the other relevant draw, the Clippers landed the No. 56 pick in the second round, meaning the pick will be conveyed to Detroit.

This was the Pistons’ best day since they traded Tayshaun Prince for Jose Calderon. These draft gain might turn out to be marginal, but they’re a welcome positive today.

As a matter of book-keeping, the Pistons also own their own second rounder. It will be No. 37 if they pick after Washington in the first round. It will be No. 38 if they pick before Washington in the first round.

70 Comments

  • Apr 19, 20137:21 pm
    by Sop

    Reply

    Top 50 draft prospects with current player comps for top ten
    1.     Ben McLemore (Brandon Rush)
     
    2.     Nerlens Noel (Kenyon Martin)
     
    3.     Otto Porter (Tayshaun Prince!)
     
    4.     Victor Oladipo (Tony Allen)
     
    5.     Anthony Bennett (Paul Milsap)
     
    6.     Trey Burke (DJ Augustin)
     
    7.     Shabazz Muhammad (Martel Webster)
     
    8.     Cody Zeller (Andrew Nicholson)
     
    9.     Michael Carter-Williams (Shaun Livingston post-knee injury)
     
    10.  Alex Len (Zydrunas Ilgauskas lite)
     
    11.  Jamaal Franklin
     
    12.  C.J. McCollum
     
    13.  Dario Saric
     
    14.  Mason Plumlee
     
    15.  Kelly Olynyk
     
    16.  Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
     
    17.  Jeff Withey
     
    18.  Gorgui Dieng
     
    19.  Steven Adams
     
    20.  Archie Goodwin
     
    21.  Rudy Gobert
     
    22.  Isaiah Austin
     
    23.  Allen Crabbe
     
    24.  C.J. Leslie
     
    25.  Deshaun Thomas
     
    26.  Doug McDermott
     
    27.  Adreian Payne
     
    28.  Reggie Bullock
     
    29.  Pierre Jackson
     
    30.  Tony Mitchell
     
    31.  Shane Larkin
     
    32.  Glen Rice Jr.
     
    33.  Rasheed Sulaimon
     
    34.  Sergey Karasev
     
    35.  Lorenzo Brown
     
    36.  Mike Muscala
     
    37.  Myck Kabongo
     
    38.  Giannis Adetokunbo
     
    39.  B.J. Young
     
    40.  Ray McCallum Jr.
     
    41.  Isaiah Canaan
     
    42.  Mouhammadou Jaiteh
     
    43.  Ricardo Ledo
     
    44.  Andre Roberson
     
    45.  Alex Abrines
     
    46.  Cory Jefferson
     
    47.  Vander Blue
     
    48.  Russ Smith
     
    49.  Tim Hardaway Jr.
     
    50.  Erick Green
     

    • Apr 19, 20139:12 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      so your saying trade out of this draft

    • Apr 19, 201310:09 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      So you think there is only one good player in this draft. And that is Anthony Bennett.

      I mean, lots of people think it’s a weak draft, but that’s way over the top. 

      • Apr 20, 20137:26 am
        by sop

        Reply

        No I think K-Mart, Prince, Rush and Tony Allen are/were all good players, but none of them are all-stars because they all have substantial flaws in their respective games. There are still decent players here just not great ones. Next year’s draft has great ones but we traded that pick away. I’ve been saying as much since this time last year.

        • Apr 20, 20138:34 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          I think there is talent in this draft, and this is not the worst draft I’ve seen. However, this the draft of pieces. You can get some nice pieces

        • Apr 20, 201310:44 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Your description would put it on par with the 2000 draft. It is much stronger than that. Not an amazing draft. But there are some good pieces.

          McLemore has so much more to offer than Rush, at least on par with Hamilton, probably significantly better.

          Porter has been so much better than Prince at every point in his career thus far, I don’t know why people bother to compare them, just because they’re both skinny? A much better parallel is Paul George.

          Oladipo’s floor is Tony Allen, so I get that comparison, but he is a significantly better shooter.

          And Burke will be a crazy bust if he tops out as a D.J. Augustin. He should at least be Calderon level player, maybe significantly better. 

          • Apr 21, 201311:53 am
            by hereherehere

            He stole this from ESPN. The SAME ESPN that caused Andre Drummond to fall to the Pistons at #9.

          • Apr 21, 20131:28 pm
            by sop

            I’m curious about what part of this you think I “stole” from ESPN seeing as my top 50 does not match Chad Ford’s and the comps I put up for the top ten I came up with after analyzing hours of game tape and matching player trends along with their physical builds.

          • Apr 21, 20132:40 pm
            by tarsier

            Well I guess it’s a good thing you’re not Detroit’s scout.

      • Apr 20, 20137:28 am
        by sop

        Reply

        BTW calling someone Paul Milsap is not a huge complement. His numbers were down across the boards this year in his contract year. Again good, but not an all-star and certainly not a franchise player.

        • Apr 20, 201310:57 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Yeah, he didn’t have a great year. But if he were on the Pistons, he would have been right there with Monroe and Drummond for best player on the team. Monroe’s stats are nearly identical to Millsap’s except he maintained them in 10% more minutes per game. But his defense was also worse. Drummond’s stats are just freakish. I don’t know if anyone has ever had a FG% that much higher than his FT%.

          Their per 36 numbers:
          Millsap:           17 points, 9 boards,  3 assists, 3 blocks + steals, 2 TOs, 49/74
          Monroe:          17 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, 2 blocks + steals, 3 TOs, 49/69
          Drummond:     14 points, 13 boards, 1 assists, 5 blocks + steals, 2 TOs, 61/37

          I’d be very happy getting a Millsap out of the draft. 

          • Apr 20, 201311:04 am
            by tarsier

            I looked it up and it’s official, Andre Drummond’s best comparison is DeAndre Jordan.

            http://bkref.com/tiny/puXkC 

          • Apr 22, 20139:23 am
            by G

            Except Drummond rebounds a lot better and is probably an equal-to or better defender  than Jordan despite being a rookie.

            By the way, the Noel/K-Mart comparison is just dumb. These are like the worst-case scenarios for everyone in the draft. And DJ Augustin is decent, I don’t know what you guys are talking about.

          • Apr 22, 20139:34 am
            by tarsier

            He is a supremely athletic big man who plays an excellent game at the rim on both ends but can’t do much else. He takes smart shots which makes his FG% really high but is a historically awful FT shooter.

            Clearly Drummond is better than Jordan, but he is awfully hard to compare to anyone. He just plays such a freakishly unique game. And he is closer to a rich man’s Jordan than a poor man’s Wallace or Howard.

    • Apr 21, 201311:50 am
      by hereherehere

      Reply

      Your comparisons are silly and you got them from ESPN. Oladipo is a slightly shorter Luol Deng. The ONLY reason why you compared Noel to Martin was the injury- TOTALLY different players coming out of college. Porter looks like Shawn Marion, but not as athletic. Carter-Williams plays like Greivis Vasquez. I could keep going, but Ill center in on one- why no comparison for Saric? Oh yeah, thats because youve probably never actually watched him play. He MAY be the steal of this draft if the right team gets him and knows what theyre doing. He has vintage Hedo Turkoglu ice in his veins when taking big shots, has Hedo and nowitzki’s range, and if given the time to develop an NBA ready body- could develop somewhat of a post game. Doesnt even need to do that with the league falling in love with the stretch 4. I really hate when people just read something- take it as gospel- THEN have the nerve to pass it off like its their own.

      • Apr 21, 20131:54 pm
        by sop

        Reply

        1. We’ll see what Home Depot’s measurements are at the combine but I would put $200 down on the fact that he is not an inch shorter than Deng.
        2. Sure the Noel comp is partially due to Martin’s similar injury, but the other half has to do with overly hyped his game is when similar to K-Mart he has no offensive skill.
        3. Porter looks NOTHING like Shawn Marion! Shawn Marion could jump out of the building, Porter is just a good athlete. Porter has a solid shot from deep, Marion has one of the most broken strokes in the league.
        4. Vasquez and MCW??? Ok they’re both 6’6″ but Vasquez was a dominant perpetrator in college and he wasn’t a who averaged at 17ppg as a 20 year old sophomore while MCW averaged less than 12 ppg as a 21 year old sophomore. Vasquez was also a better 3pt shooter and WHO GIVES A CRAP about Vasquez anyways.
        5. I have watched film on Saric and he look decent. He can’t shoot anywhere near as well as Hedo could at the same stage.
         
        I read a variety of sources and analyze a large volume of game tape. If you disagree with my expert opinion that’s fine, but you should understand that just because someone agrees with an ESPN writer on one player does not mean they take everything they say as gospel. BTW you seemed to have missed that Chad Ford picked Drummond a top 5 prospect last year so I fail to see how his opinion made Drummond slip to 9.

        • Apr 22, 20139:26 am
          by G

          Reply

          What the hell does “dominate perpetrator” mean?

        • Apr 22, 20131:58 pm
          by G

          Reply

          1) Deng is listed at 6’9″, Oladipo is listed at 6’5″… You think they’re 4 inches off?
          2) Noel rebounds better, gets more blocks, and has a much different build than Kenyon Martin
          3) Can’t argue with any of that, I like the Paul George comp better for Porter
          4) Vasquez is a better shooter, but not THAT much better – he’s sub-average in FG% and 3PT%
          5) Meh…

          I disagree that you have an “expert opinion”. I think you have an amateur opinion, and not a very good one at that.  

      • Apr 21, 20133:50 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        I’m actually unimpressed with comparisons from both of you, so there is that.
         
        For sop:
         
        Nerlens covers ground and blocks shots way better than Martin. Martin was also a junior while Nerlens is this productive as a freshman. Brandon Rush put up 13.3 points on 43.5% field goal percentage while McLemore puts up 15.9 points on 49.5% field goal percentage, and McLemore is younger. Rush feels like an absolute worst case for McLemore. Porter is more productive as a sophomore than Prince was as senior. Porter is the superior 3 point shooter and gets to the line better. Oladipo shoots over 44.1% on 3s, and even if that is a bit inflated it seems likely that he’ll shoot the ball better than Allen. DJ Augustin was way more turnover prone than Burke. Augustin also regressed a bit as a passer in his sophomore season while getting his points up while Burke improved both parts of his game in his sophomore year. Shabazz likes playing in the post and Webster doesn’t do that at all, so their games are very different. I don’t know what kind of player Nicholson is because he was a rookie, so that comparison falls apart before it gets going. Nicholson also was a 4 year player while Zeller played for 2 years in college. Nicholson is shorter and more athletic, a worse rebounder and better shot blocker. There is so little their college careers have in common that I really don’t know how well those two compare even if I knew what kind of player Nicholson is. MCW is way more athletic than post injury Livingston.
         
        For hereherehere:
         
        MCW is also more athletic than Vasquez. He can’t shoot as well, but is clearly a superior defender to Greivis. Vasquez is also more of a dribble penetration guy than MCW. Marion but not as athletic means nothing, and misses out on the fact that Porter is a good shooter. As for Saric, what exactly do we have to base his projections on? His shooting numbers this year are pretty abysmal. Roughly 37% from the field and 30% on 3s. Heck, he’s even a 50% free throw shooter. He seems to rebound pretty well, and he has  decent assist numbers given his minutes. He also has quite a few turnovers, and actually more turnovers than assists. I haven’t seen him play, and maybe he is actually good. Scouts really seem to like him, but it is really hard to make a comparison to any good basketball player from what we know of Saric.

        • Apr 21, 20138:42 pm
          by Sop

          Reply

          There are no perfect comps. It’s easy to pick apart other people’s comp when you don’t come up with a counter example yourself. The reason for a comp is to make a point. The point is that this draft SUCKS and that we completely out of a draft that is way better in 2014 and for what? To dump an idiotic signing. If Joe D blows this off-season again I will stop wasting my time following the Pistons.

          • Apr 22, 201312:08 am
            by tarsier

            Yeah, but you’re comparisons are not only bad, but if they are illustrating how crappy the draft is, they are terrible at that. If that was what you were going for, try comparing prospects to comparably good prospects instead of focusing on stylistic similarities. Choosing a comparison for each player who is his worst case scenario will make any draft look bad, even the 2003 draft.

          • Apr 22, 20131:41 pm
            by oats

            I find most likely player to be far more useful, or a best case/worst case comp. Heck, try all 3. Say with Burke. Best case Tony Parker, worst case DJ Augustin, most likely Jeff Teague. None of those are perfect, but they get people in the range.  Just throwing out worst case scenarios is completely unfair, and that is what it felt like most of those were.
             
            Anyways, I’m not the one who felt the need to throw the comparisons out, so I don’t have to defend them. You did that. Yours were really biased by trying to push your narrative. Hence my complaining about it.

  • Apr 19, 20137:56 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Even though only minuscule this is great news. Hopefully karma kicks in and we move up and get a higher draft slot. I don’t know if we were tanking like the other teams but we definitely weren’t in those last 6-7 games of the season. Cleveland and Phoenix were the 2 main teams that were relentlessly tanking so I hope they get stung and fall. From this draft its only McLemore, Oladipo, Porter and Burke that can make a difference to our team moving forward next season but if the odds don’t fall our way we’ll be fighting over MCW, Bennett and Muhammed.

    If we do end up with two 2nd rounders what are the chances of trading them both for another teams late 1st rounder? Might have to throw in some cash to do so but if there is someone Joe has his eye on in late in the 1st round then it might be worth a look. If Will Bynum isn’t resigned as our back up PG then I really like the look of Isaiah Cannan. If we don’t get a SG with our 1st pick then Allen Crabbe might be a nice pick up late.

    • Apr 20, 20138:43 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Bennett is going top 3 … and Shabazz is gonna be a steal in this draft…

      People really don’t know how talented he is, and its okay lack of knowledge…there are no perfect players in this draft or close to perfect…but Shabazz has wonderful a wonderful offensive skill set we have not had here in many years…. 

      • Apr 20, 20139:33 am
        by sop

        Reply

        If Shabazz lost 15 pounds he’d be a much better player. Let’s see what weight he shows up to the combine at.

      • Apr 20, 201311:19 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        You’ve been asked this many times, but never really answered in much depth. What is so great about Muhammad’s game? You like his body and his shooting form, but at what point do you start to look at his lack of production?

        He’s a pure scorer who does nothing else. That would be ok if he could give you 25 ppg, or even 20 ppg at significantly above average efficiency. But when he gives you 18 ppg on average efficiency at best, in a conference that was not particularly strong this past season, doesn’t that just scream mediocre? 

        • Apr 20, 20138:38 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          @tasier I’d guess its because Muhammad was touted to be the #1 pick coming out of high school

          @I HATE FRANK Man you really need to change your handle. Do you really hate Frank that much that even after they fired him you still hate him? Try and come up with a more positive one next time because around here its how other posters relate to you. Oh and if it came down to Muhhamad or Bennett i’d personally go with Bennett. Yes he is a tweener but he’d be able to spell Monroe at PF when he comes out for a rest and at times slide in at SF if we wanted to go big. Muhammad would be a horrible choice if we went with Nate McMillan as our new coach. He’d never get on the floor with his poor defence.

          • Apr 21, 20137:18 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Man you really need to change your handle. Do you really hate Frank that much that even after they fired him you still hate him? Try and come up with a more positive one next time because around here its how other posters relate to you.

            1.Eventually depends…. and I really enjoy the people here..even when its negative it helps the slow work day
            Oh and if it came down to Muhhamad or Bennett i’d personally go with Bennett. Yes he is a tweener but he’d be able to spell Monroe at PF when he comes out for a rest and at times slide in at SF if we wanted to go big. Muhammad would be a horrible choice if we went with Nate McMillan as our new coach. He’d never get on the floor with his poor defence.
            2. people forget that Shabazz didnt get to participate with the team in the early part of the season, and he was playing limited minutes and then he had the shoulder injury…. Some people believe that no one really saw what Shabazz is fully capable of …. I say he going to be in great shape during the Chicago combine, if his speed,agility and vertical is where i believe it will be..be comes a steal at 7 or 8 …. I really believe people just havent seen enough of him
             
             

          • Apr 22, 20139:37 am
            by G

            He missed 3 lousy games… So what? He’s pretty poor in the stats that would suggest athleticism – steals and blocks, and he just doesn’t look overly athletic on tape.

            Btw, just say “@tarsier” or “@gmehl” if you’re responding to something they said, you don’t have to re-type their entire comment. It saves a little space and lets you get to what you actually want to say. 

        • Apr 21, 20138:31 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          Tar – yes he is a PURE Scorer! JR SMITH, MICHEAL REDD, Jamal Crawford, … He is a mix of those players ….  he is 20 years old, and has room to get coached up … 

          We are talking 7th or 8th pick…. Shabazz if he is there has the most star or game change impact … once again there of footage of him on Youtube … hard not to like his skill set

          • Apr 22, 201312:11 am
            by tarsier

            Yes, we are in agreement that he is a pure scorer. But he has given no indication that he is a special scorer. If he is not going to be particularly gifted at scoring, why not take someone who can score and contribute in some other ways?

          • Apr 22, 20139:58 am
            by G

            Good article from SBNation questioning Muhammad’s potential in the NBA, and points out why his being a “pure scorer” is not enough to justify a high pick.

            http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/2/24/4009658/shabazz-muhammad-ucla-basketball-nba-draft-2013 

          • Apr 22, 201310:03 am
            by G

            Btw, this was written on 2/24. Shabazz would go on to have 7 bad games (including 4 REALLY bad games) and 2 good games to close the season.

  • Apr 19, 20138:03 pm
    by Reaction

    Reply

    I think CJ McCollum’s draft stock is going to sky rocket post-nba combine/team workouts similar to how Damian Lillard’s did. I hope the Piston’s at leastconsider him if Mclemore, Burke, Noel are off the board and he has a good workout.

    • Apr 19, 20138:32 pm
      by haydzzz

      Reply

      I agree, he seems to have a more complete offensive game compared to knight, can create his own shot and can handle the ball. 

    • Apr 22, 201312:13 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      That would be awesome. Assuming nobody leapfrogs Detroit, if McCollum went top 6, the Pistons would be guaranteed the availability of one of: McLemore, Porter, Noel, Bennett, Burke, Oladipo.

  • Apr 19, 20138:29 pm
    by MrCarter

    Reply

    so to recap, barring a lottery surprise, we’ll be picking #7, #37, and #56 right?

    • Apr 19, 20138:37 pm
      by Haan

      Reply

      It will be #38 in the second round, MrCarter, unless Wash jumps ahead of us in round 1 via lottery.

  • Apr 19, 20138:46 pm
    by David

    Reply

    Anyone who says that only players “x,y, and z” can make a difference to a team is crazy. NBA draft history is littered with players who turn out to be way better than their draft stock projected them to be. 

     last two years alone:
    Kawhi Leonard went 15th
    Tobias Harris went 19th
    Evan Fornier went 20th
    Kenneth Faried went 22nd
    Jimmy Butler went 30th

    and that’s off the top of my head. If the Pistons got Kenneth Faried with the 7th pick we’d be pretty happy, right? Tobias Harris has been a 20 and 10 guy since moving to Orlando. And I’m not saying that Jimmy Butler is a 7th pick, but in a re-draft there’s no way he falls below 20.

    My point being: there’s talent in every draft. What we know about the players in the current draft isn’t all that much. The key in any draft isn’t to get the next superstar, or even all-star. It’s just to not miss. 

    • Apr 19, 20138:57 pm
      by Travis

      Reply

      Exactly. Do the homework, interviews, and use the combine to find the best player for each respective pick.

    • Apr 19, 201311:11 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Its not impossible to find talent past top 5..but its definitely harder.  The closer you are to number one the more of those guys are on the board and whoever you do your home work on is more likely to be there.  Just because guys from the 10-30 range have worked out doesn’t mean it is just as good to pick in that range.  15th pick turned out good?  Sure but what about Royce White, Mile Plumlee, Kendall Marshal…it isn’t just as good to wade through that group then it is to have the option for Waiters, Beal, Barnes, Lillard (just a 2012 example).
       
      The key isn’t to get the next superstar?  no…but thats the best goal is.  It isn’t the key because it only applies to the 1-3 teams that have the option to draft a superstar depending on the draft.  Just because a team can get good value at #15 doesn’t mean fans shouldn’t lament the chance to pick #7.  Just don’t miss?  How about we try to get the best possible…not just try not to be apart of the worst draft decisions of 2013 list.

    • Apr 20, 20137:51 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      Exactly! In drafting you just have to be smart and ignore the groupthink. Focus on players with specific talent and skill, sufficient athleticism, and minimizable weaknesses and fit for your team, and those guys end up being the gems.
      Thats why I say get Tony Mitchell if Mclemore, Porter, burke, or oladipo are unavailable. He’s a late gem 

      • Apr 20, 20133:38 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        His weaknesses are pretty huge. Given his competition, Mitchell’s shooting numbers are really bad. So are his rebounding numbers, which is especially troubling since it looks like he’s an undersized power forward. I really don’t see a gem with Mitchell.

      • Apr 22, 20139:40 am
        by G

        Reply

        Again, why is this guy a #7 pick?

    • Apr 21, 20134:41 am
      by Chris N

      Reply

      “Anyone who says that only players “x,y, and z” can make a difference to a team is crazy. NBA draft history is littered with players who turn out to be way better than their draft stock projected them to be. ”

      +1

  • Apr 19, 20139:12 pm
    by MrCarter

    Reply

    judging from the comparisons, this is looking like a veeeeerry weak draft

  • Apr 19, 20139:37 pm
    by Josh

    Reply

    Almost all drafts are considered weak until the players actually show their stuff on the hardcourt. 2009 was considered a “Blake Griffin and others” draft class, and yet we see players like James Harden, Steph Curry, Ty Lawson and Jrue Holiday emerge as all-star caliber players. On the other hand, the 2010 class was considered a lot deeper than the year before (Wall, Cousins, Monroe, etc) and yet doesn’t it surprise you that the very first all-star to emerge from it was the tenth overall pick? (Paul George). It’s all about doing your homework.

    • Apr 20, 20131:37 am
      by MrCarter

      Reply

      true dat. remember 2011? everyone was saying it was a HORRIBLE draft class due to all the players returning to school because of the lockout. but look what happened. You had Irving, Knight, Klay Thompson, Parsons, Tristan Thompson, looking like a pretty decent class.

  • Apr 19, 201311:33 pm
    by Jacob

    Reply

    I would probably be fine with bennet oladipo porter. What we really need is an athletic wing that can score and a point guard.

  • Apr 19, 201311:51 pm
    by Anthony J

    Reply

    It was pretty weird but I had a dream that we had the #7 pick and Oladipo, Mclemore, Bennett, Burke, Noel and Porter were gone so we went with Shabazz Muhammad. I say it was weird because he turned out to be a melo type of player (excellent shooter but doesn’t really excel at much else) and he turned out to be a clutch player that we need. If my dream is somewhat true and we draft Muhammad, I hope that Dumars has a lockdown defensive SG in mind so he can defend the likes of lebron, Kd, melo and Kobe…

    • Apr 20, 201312:15 am
      by Anthony J

      Reply

      A few SG/SF’s I can think of that can be good defensive players if we draft Shabazz would be corey Brewer, Ronnie Brewer, Trevor Ariza (although I’m sure he won’t give up his money.) just to name a few.

    • Apr 20, 20131:16 am
      by Blocks by Dre

      Reply

      I had a similar dream…but in my dream we actually drafted someone with a FUTURE.

      But then I woke up and realized since we wanted to play good at the end of the season, Shabazz might be the only option once McLemore, Noel, Victor, Porter, Bennett and Burke are gone. Only way one of those 6 falls to us is if someone makes a dumb pick, but the Timberwolves, Raptors and Kings don’t have a pick before us so chances of that happening are pretty slim

      • Apr 20, 20131:20 am
        by Blocks by Dre

        Reply

        Wait…the King’s DOES pick before us…WE’RE SAVED!!!

        • Apr 20, 20132:44 am
          by Anthony J

          Reply

          Haha YES! hopefully they go with someone like Cody Zeller to throw the draft off lol.

        • Apr 20, 201311:32 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          If we could rely on ESPN’s draft simulator, I’d be pretty happy. In ten tries:

          Pistons take Bennett 8th
          Oladipo 7th
          Oladipo 7th
          Muhammad 7th :(
          Oladipo 7th
          Muhammad 7th :(
          Bennett 7th
          Oladipo 7th
          Porter 3rd :)
          McLemore 1st :) 

      • Apr 20, 20133:51 am
        by oats

        Reply

        Do not sleep on the team that drafted a guy who may have just had the worst season ever by a top 10 pick. I know it isn’t a fool proof metric by any means, but Austin Rivers offensive rating of 89 and defensive rating of 114 is crazy awful. He shoots 37.2% from the field and he can’t guard anyone. Between New Orleans and Sacramento, both of whom really want small forwards, the odds of Muhammad being drafted in the top 6 is actually really high. New Orleans also really wants a point guard and might surprise us with a Michael Carter Williams or CJ McCollum pick. The point is, the teams ahead of Detroit still might make a mistake, and I’d say Muhammad seems like the most likely mistake to be made right now.
         
        I’m really terrified of the scenario where the top 6 guys actually go at the top of the draft. The reason is that Muhammad looks so much like a Dumars guy. Great length, smooth but not a great athlete, can play in the post albeit simplistically, and he might not fit in to any position particularly well unless that previously mentioned length allows him to defend guys much quicker than him. Of course this would be followed by comments about how Dumars couldn’t believe Muhammad actually fell far enough for Detroit to take him. I am absolutely terrified of that idea because I don’t think Muhammad looks worthy of a top 10 pick in this draft, even for a team as needy for perimeter players as Detroit.

    • Apr 20, 20133:15 am
      by MrBlockedShot

      Reply

      I had a similar dream, but it turned out to be a nightmare…

      • Apr 20, 20133:02 pm
        by Anthony J

        Reply

        Haha I’m not completely sold on Muhammad either but I believe that Dumars may pick him. It would be great if he can 20-25 ppg type of scorer to make up for his bad defense. 

          

        • Apr 20, 20133:44 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          He puts up about 18 points in a college system designed to get him shots, and he doesn’t do it all that efficiently. A large part of his game also involves him parking himself under the basket and taking advantage of his superior size and strength versus his opponents, an advantage he won’t have on the next level. Considering how few 20 points a game scorers there are right now I feel confident saying Muhammad won’t be one of them. If he does somehow get to that point, he will be taking so many shots that he is actively hurting the team by scoring 20 a game. 
           
          He also has other holes to make up for. He is a bad passer and bad on the boards too. I’m really not fond of Muhammad.

          • Apr 20, 20134:55 pm
            by Anthony J

            True points that you bring up Muhammad is imo the hardest person to evaluate in the top 10. He has a great shooting stroke but like you pointed out, he used his size in college to take advantage of smaller players. A 6’6, 220 something lb SF in the NBA won’t be powering the likes of Lebron or even Melo down. His defense and athleticism are suspect as well.

            I’m thinking that if we are unable to snag someone who is legit with our pick then we might as well just trade it away. Maybe for a proven player from a team looking to unload cap space (considering we have a ton of cap space) or maybe for 2 (or 3) later picks.

          • Apr 20, 20135:43 pm
            by oats

            His 3 point shooting dropped significantly after shooting well the first 10 games. He ended up with an ok average, but I suspect that if he took more 3s his percentages would have kept going the way they were trending. That would be downwards if that wasn’t clear. I don’t care about good shooting strokes if the guy isn’t that good of a shooter, and I don’t think Muhammad is a good shooter. What’s more, he’s not that good on two point attempts too. For a guy that takes so many shots at the hoop he should shoot more than 46% on two point attempts.
             
            I really don’t think it’s hard to evaluate Muhammad, I think he’s a pretty mediocre player and the kind of guy you can get in the 20s in most every draft. That includes this one since Allen Crabbe is pretty much the same player. Both are high volume but not exceptionally efficient shooters. Crabbe shoots the 2 better despite being smaller. His 3 point percentage is a little lower, but he takes more of them and I already said I think that Muhammad’s 3 point percentage would have been lower if he took more of them. Crabbe’s true shooting percentage is better, and he’s a much better passer, but he’s also a year older and that needs to be factored in when evaluating them as prospects. The two seem really close to me though. Crabbe is a little farther along and has a higher floor because he is a pretty good passer, Muhammad has a higher ceiling though. I get that Muhammad should go first because you should be willing to gamble on that higher ceiling, and I’m not trying to argue that isn’t the case. What I am arguing is that the two have pretty darn similar most likely outcomes, and it doesn’t make sense to take Muhammad 15-25 spots ahead of Crabbe. I also don’t think Crabbe is under rated as a mid 20s to early 30s pick, that seems about right. I just think Muhammad is not a top 10 pick.
             
            As for trading out, that depends entirely on what the return is. It could make sense, but I do think there are some solid players that will be there when Detroit drafts. The top 6 guys are clear and away the best prospects, but CJ McCollum and Kentavious Caldwell Pope look pretty good. Those two look like they should clearly be the top of the next tier in my opinion, and I wouldn’t complain about either of them. They both look like they could be good starters on the perimeter, and they both fill needs for Detroit.
             
            If McCollum is a shooting guard he’s a better version of Knight. There is also the outside chance he might secretly be a good passer that didn’t use that skill because his team needed him to shoot, in which case he could be Damian Lillard. KCP plays like a prototypical shooting guard. He is a decent shooter, a quality passer and rebounder for a shooting guard, he plays good defense, and was reasonably efficient while playing for a really terrible team. There’s a lot to like there. I really think those two have the best chance to be good of anyone in that tier after the top 6 are gone, and I wouldn’t be in a hurry to trade out of a pick with either of them on the board. It’s hard to get excited for that kind of pick, but they have value. Part of that is just that rookie contracts are the ones where players are most likely to out produce their contract, and that just makes them really valuable assets. Trading out might be the way to go if a quality trade presents itself, but it seems more likely to me that the best bet is just taking one of those two guys.

        • Apr 21, 20132:48 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          To be fair, though, he doesn’t need to make up for bad D. He is decent on that end.

          • Apr 21, 20132:57 pm
            by oats

            I think Muhammad projects as a bit worse on the next level though. His lateral quickness isn’t great for a 2, and he’s a bit small for a 3. I’ll concede he isn’t that bad on defense in college, but it is a potential problem for the NBA. It’s most definitely not the biggest problem with him as an NBA prospect though. Inefficient scoring, poor rebounding, and bad passing are all more alarming than his D potentially being a bit below average.

          • Apr 22, 201310:06 am
            by G

            Muhammad’s D isn’t really that good. And his rep is he doesn’t put much effort in that area. Since he lacks the lateral quickness and elite athleticism that help make one a good defender, effort would be the thing to cover those deficiencies. 

  • Apr 20, 20138:47 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    If you draft Muhammad and his bad attitude your dreams will turn into a nightmare

  • Apr 20, 201311:14 am
    by Piston Truth

    Reply

    If you looking for some damn good future role players to complement a team this year will be that draft

  • Apr 21, 201312:19 am
    by Lake Side Live

    Reply

    Hopefully the Pistons can take their two 2nd round picks and package them for a late first round pick.  Thinking that way we could get a SG and a SF say Oladipo and Saric or Porter and Caldwell Pope.

    Or we take those two first round picks and Brandon Knight and get back into the first round for next year’s draft.  

  • Apr 21, 201312:21 am
    by Lake Side Live

    Reply

    Anyone have opinions if Doug McDermott will be available in the 2nd round or is he going in the first?  Same question for Myck Kabongo

  • Apr 21, 20136:16 am
    by Greg

    Reply

    I wonder what it will cost us to get Bledsoe.

    • Apr 21, 20133:16 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I’m not all that interested in Bledsoe. His offense is pretty similar to Knights, but his 3 point shooting numbers are really unreliable. He shot 20% on 3s last year and this year he is at 39.7%. Considering how few 3s he takes, I have to assume he really isn’t really a 39.7% 3 point shooter if he takes a decent amount of them.
       
      The reason to get Bledsoe is that his defense is way better than Knight’s. I get that. The Clippers are also rumored to have a really high asking price on Beldsoe, and his limitations make that sound kind of iffy to me. Knight might get it done with the Pistons taking on a bad contract, but I don’t know how much they mind Butler’s expiring for next season. I bet they’d do Knight and the first round pick, but Detroit shouldn’t. They might take Knight, Singler, Middleton, and the 38th pick, but Detroit shouldn’t do that either for a relatively minor upgrade. Given that, we’re probably looking at Monroe as the ask, and that is clearly dumb for Detroit.

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