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Lawrence Frank has done at least one thing well as Pistons coach

Although the headline is a tad more sympathetic than I was going for, I made a reluctant case in today’s Detroit Free Press column that Lawrence Frank‘s tenure as Pistons coach has not been a complete disaster:

It’s easy to forget just how dismal things were when Frank took over. Joe Dumars was in the midst of one of the messiest, most acrimonious dismantling of a contending team in recent NBA history. He invested in the wrong veteran All-Star as his transitional stabilizing force (Richard Hamilton instead of Chauncey Billups). He invested in the wrong free agents (Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva). He invested in the wrong serviceable young player (Rodney Stuckey over Arron Afflalo and Amir Johnson). He assembled a mismatched roster full of poorly-defined roles, duplicate skill sets, not enough defense and several players who seemed to think they were deserving of primary roles when their skill sets and production disagreed. Predictably, that did not go well, resulting in embarrassing public sniping and culminating in an shootaround boycott that would’ve been an unprecedented spectacle in modern professional sports history if, you know, the Pistons hadn’t completely fallen off the national media’s radar over the last five years.

That’s what Frank inherited. Granted, a buyout of Hamilton’s contract helped ease things, but the Pistons also still had a ways to go to eliminate a culture where it was OK for any player, no matter how poorly said player was playing, to openly question coaching and personnel decisions or whether they were being used properly. To his credit, Frank has done that. His preparedness and work ethic are renowned across the league. His players seem to respect him (or at least respect him enough to not call him a ‘buffoon’ to media). Part of the reason Frank was hired was to bring an element of professionalism that had been lacking back to Detroit’s locker room, and he’s legitimately succeeded in doing that.

Dan touched on it a bit yesterday, but as annoying as it is considering how frustrating and boring it has been to watch this Frank-coached teams at times, any evaluation of his job performance does have to include that he did accomplish one of the main things he was brought on board to do — make the locker room less of an insane hellscape. That still is probably not enough to save his job, but it at least should be considered in the discussion.

51 Comments

  • Apr 12, 20131:53 pm
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    This. Lawrence Frank is what Tommy Amaker was to the Michigan Wolverines before Beilein. He was brought in for a largely singular purpose, regardless of what talking points around making the playoffs the team was giving. Not saying it should ever be acceptable to have a losing record, but that if we had to pick the most important measurement of performance to base Frank off, it’d be folly to have expected him to make the playoffs in 2 years given the situation he inherited. 

    Again, not saying he shouldn’t be replaced, but that given the team’s stabilization under his regime, people are way overreacting when they unconditionally advocate for his dismissal regardless of who replaces him. If there are better options, I’m all for it. But if we’re just bringing in another coach with a comparable track record to Frank’s pre-Detroit, I don’t think change for the sake of it is the answer with a young team like this. 

    When you evaluate how crappy this team is, how much does Frank have to do with it compared to other factors? How much do Frank’s limitations prevent this team from succeeding compared to other factors? I don’t think the coach matters that much in the NBA the way it does in college, and who is or isn’t coaching this team probably swings the record by 5 games at best. Those questions though should be the primary factor in the decision to keep/fire him. I’m not convinced it should be a given that he’s out.

    Final verdict: If there are better options / coaches with reps that will help convince more talented players to come to Detroit, I’m for firing Frank. I just don’t think it’s fair to say he failed unless you’re willing to admit anything but failure would have been a miracle. 

    • Apr 12, 20133:37 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      I’ve said it since the beginning. We should only fire Frank if we have an obvious upgrade waiting to take over. Frank may not be a very good coach, but there are a lot of really bad coaches out there too. Change for changing’s sake is dumb, and will lead to more problems. If Van Gundy (either), Ron Adams (Chicago Assistant), or Mike Budenholzer (San Antonio Assistant) are open to the job, grab them and just cut ties with Frank. But, if the only real options are of the Dwayne Casey, PJ Carlesimo, or Vinny Del Negro variety (retreads that develop talent poorly and only ever showed anything with talented teams), I would just stick with Frank. Frank has his problems (big, glaring ones at that), but at least he has the rapport and respect of this team.
       
      Don’t assume nothing is better than something.

  • Apr 12, 20132:00 pm
    by Clint in Flint

    Reply

    Final verdict: If there are better options / coaches with reps that will help convince more talented players to come to Detroit, I’m for firing Frank.
    Bottem line, almost any coach would be an improvement! 

    • Apr 12, 20132:11 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      thank you clint.
      again, frank defenders are ludicrous.
      somehow, they want a guarantee that the next coach will be “better” than frank before he is fired?
      in what world is that ever the criteria for keeping your job?
      if you do your job, you keep it.
      if you don’t, you’re gone.
      sure, whoever is in charge wants to make sure they get a suitable replacement, but that is a teeny, tiny factor in making the decision on the incumbent.  in most instances.   if frank was doing groundbreaking scientific research where only a handful of specially trained scientist had the proper training to take on his tasks…sure, you’d hesitate on getting rid of such an employee.
      but head basketball coach in the nba?
      seriously.  
      there are dozens of guys out there dying to get a shot at doing what frank does and quite a few of those guys will be able to perform his tasks a heckuva lot better.  it is not as though he’s set the bar very high.
      has frank professionally handled his duties, and not embarrassed the organization?
      i guess…but that should be the bare minimum, the assumed base line of performance, and certainly not why you hire a coach.  or why you retain him.
      but i guess nba owners and gms are just plain stupid, though (according to some posters)…imagining that a coach makes a real difference to a team.  why any old warm body will do.  why waste millions of dollars in salary on someone who is ultimately so inconsequential. 

      • Apr 12, 20132:43 pm
        by Desolation Row

        Reply

        Didn’t say there needs to be a “guarantee” the next coach will be better. Just that there needs to be a reasonable expectation that the next coach offers a tangible improvement on Frank.

        In what world is that ever a criteria for keeping your job? Hmm.. well, I don’t know of too many institutions that fire their employees without considering whether or not the cost of replacing them is outweighed by the potential of the new hire. Do you have good reason to expect a replacement’s potential to succeed outweighs that of the cost of firing a coach you know at least meets basic benchmarks of competence? The cost being those associated with teaching a new system to players, how it impacts young players’ developments to introduce a new coaching paradigm, the cultural uncertainty post-firing, etc. If you do, then fine. Make the change. I didn’t say I even disagreed with it given that parameter. You seem to think that rational decision making would only indicate Frank has to be fired. We’ve seen what other coaches can offer; I’m not sure your assessment is the slam dunk you think it is. 

        Fundamentals of logical decision making aside, we also seem to have a disagreement on what measures of performance should be considered when deciding whether or not Frank failed. Is win count unconditionally the top criteria? I’m not convinced it always is. You can disagree, but let’s argue around this instead of returning to the same ad hominem assault on “Frank defenders” for lacking the intellectual capacity to understand there actually exist other great coaches in the world that aren’t currently coaching NBA teams.

        Also, you seemed to have misinterpreted what I said about coaches making a huge impact. I didn’t mean to imply any moron could do the job. I simply meant that the difference between the 40th best coach in the world and the 15th best coach may not make that much of a difference in win totals. Again, I’m not convinced one way or the other, but I think it’s fair to question our conventional premises before broadcasting our assertions as gospel.  

    • Apr 12, 20132:53 pm
      by G

      Reply

      There are only about 2 or 3 coaches with reps that make players want to come play for them. Obviously you want a good coach, but getting one of those guys is unrealistic.

      Frank is basically a replacement-level coach. Kind of like the 2010 Tigers starting the season with Ramon Santiago as the starting shortstop. Frank is like Ramon Santiago. He’ll do one or two things that help you, he’ll do a handful of things that don’t help you, but he won’t give you anything special.

      You don’t want Ramon Santiago as your starting SS and you don’t want Frank as your head coach, but you better make sure your replacement is an upgrade and not, say, Byron Scott or something.

      • Apr 12, 20132:59 pm
        by Desolation Row

        Reply

        Well put. 

  • Apr 12, 20132:24 pm
    by jerrific

    Reply

    Isn’t this just as much, if not more, a result of the Pistons getting rid of the cancerous personnel that were creating problems in the first place? The main transgressors were Rip and Iverson, and they were both shipped out prior to Frank getting the job. Frank certainly does seem to command more respect than the previous two coaches, but that doesn’t really say much. The team Frank inherited didn’t really have any malcontents. Sure, Tayshaun was quietly brooding until he was traded, but he generally kept to himself. He really only created problems when more vocal players had already given voice to them. I really don’t see this as a plus for Frank since he really didn’t have to deal with any of the personalities that were causing trouble in the first place. 

    • Apr 12, 20132:28 pm
      by jerrific

      Reply

      Also, if the best thing there is to say about a coach is essentially, “well at least the locker room didn’t completely implode, publicly disrespect the coach and organization, and start a mutiny” then that says something about his future with the team. 

      • Apr 12, 20132:49 pm
        by Desolation Row

        Reply

        This is the best argument against keeping Frank. Ultimately, how much one factor or another weighed into the stabilizing of the team is something we can only speculate upon. But I think that’s the main criteria Dumars should be making a decision on, not his inability to pull off a miracle playoff run with a roster depleted of talent. 

        Regardless, even if Frank is dismissed, I think it’s a mistake to hate on him for the job he’s done here the way so many commenters have. He’s not George Karl or Rick Carlisle, but he’s not John Kuester or Michael Curry either. 

        • Apr 12, 20134:02 pm
          by sebastian

          Reply

          No, L. Frank, is not Michael Curry. Curry won 39 games in his single year as Pistons Head Coach.
          Fire this joker on April 18th, please?!?!

          • Apr 12, 20134:13 pm
            by G

            Right… That team (with the exception of AI for Billups) had gone to the ECF the year before. Don’t give me “Curry had more wins so he’s better”. That’s BS.

          • Apr 12, 20134:13 pm
            by MIKEYDE248

            Michael Curry also inheritted a team that was straight out of the eastern conference championships.  I think Joe thought that the team was good enought to win, no matter who the coach was.  Obviously he was wrong and that is what started the downward trend.

          • Apr 12, 20134:59 pm
            by sebastian

            Yo, “G”, I’m not necessarily saying that Curry was a better coach than L. Frank. They’re both garbage, in my book.
            I’m only stating a statistical fact. Since, you guys tend to believe in numbers.

  • Apr 12, 20132:49 pm
    by Clyde

    Reply

    Kudos to Frank on his professionalism, however, his claim to fame — his preparedness, hasn’t translated to wins. I wonder if this is a case of paralysis by analysis? Teams somehow managed to win games long before the advent of advanced statistics. I think the Pistons need a coach who has actually played the game and will take a more instinctual approach based on his own experience. This person needn’t necessarily have extensive (or any) head coaching experience at the NBA level. Look at what Mark Jackson has done in his first full season with the Warriors. It’s time to give Laimbeer his shot.

  • Apr 12, 20133:08 pm
    by CityofKlompton

    Reply

    Not to say it is surprising in the least, but it certainly is interesting to see all these posts and articles about Frank being written in a past tense, as if the season is already over and he has already been let go.  Of course, for all intents and purposes, the season IS over (and has been) for the Pistons, and I would be surprised to see L-Frank back on the sidelines next season.

    Just interesting, much like this off season should be. 

  • Apr 12, 20133:10 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    whenever i’ve had to decide whether to retain or fire/replace an individual, the only initial question is whether that current employee is competently performing their duties.
    if the answer is no, then the decision to fire/replace that person is easy.  he or she goes.
    if that person has some sort of specialized skill that makes it difficult to replace that person, then the firing/replacement may be done later, rather than sooner – it may take a while to find a pool of replacement candidates –  but the firing/replacement is still going to happen.  and it is going to happen because the person being replaced is not doing the job they were hired to do.
    in frank’s situation, he is not doing the job he was hired to do: win basketball games.   and yes, that is the bottom line regarding his position as a head coach. not fostering a mutiny is one of those implicit chores that usually would not even be mentioned in the list of duties expected of a head coach.  the idea that it would recommend continued employment is…well, to say the least, amusing.
    one thing that might have saved frank is if the team had actually been able to establish a true identity.  if, for instance, the team had become one of those tough, defensive teams that other teams hated to play, even if they knew they’d eventually beat them.  after 2 years, however, the pistons are still as faceless, without a real team identity, as they were without frank.  his failure to put his stamp on the team, to actually establish a true identity and culture – and not rioting in the locker room doesn’t qualify – is as indicative of his failure as anything.
    finding a replacement will not be difficult.  again, there are dozens of college coaches, nba assistants, former players who one could consider as a replacement.  the tough part is making the right call on one of those people.  finding the next rick carlisle or tom thibideau and avoiding the john kuesters.  dumars did it once, and i’m hoping he can do it again.  my favorite is derek fisher, a guy who is obviously going to be a head coach on someone’s sideline in the next few years.  i hope dumars takes a run at him and locks him up before the lakers seduce him.
    what frank does is not an extraordinarily specialized field where there is a limited number or competent candidates.  there are plenty out there.  it just takes good judgment to find the right fit for your circumstances.

  • Apr 12, 20133:26 pm
    by LT

    Reply

    in terms of bringing professionalism to the locker room, Frank has done a minor miracle. in about 18 months, he has eliminates petty actions from this locker room. the problems had been going on since coach saunders. now the problems are gone
     

    • Apr 12, 20133:35 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      nonsense…the problems were called rip hamilton and rasheed wallace and tracey mcgrady and tayshaun prince and dumars got rid of those guys.
      in fact, dumars was to a large degree responsible for the problems because of the nature of his relationships with players – they knew they could always go over the coach’s head and speak directly to him – and his public  ”hands off” policy when it came to team turmoil.
      i’d like to see what frank would have done with a mix of hamilton and gordon and mcgrady and prince with a little bit of sheed tossed in.
      my guess is that the results would have been very similar to what happened when those guys were in town. 

      • Apr 12, 20133:47 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Right, the coaches weren’t responsible at all for what happened. That’s why Tracy McGrady has been known as a coach killer and locker room cancer every place he’s played, right? Same with Rip, he’s torn that Chicago locker room apart. That Memphis team is coming apart at the seams because of Tayshaun’s cancerous influence.

        If you can’t tell, I’m being just a little bit sarcastic. The fact is, both players and coaches bore some responsibility, but Curry and Kuester’s mishandling the situation was the catalyst. Kuester didn’t have to deal with Sheed or AI, yet he was the one the players walked out on.

        • Apr 12, 20134:00 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          well…yea…mcgrady was a well known locker room cancer.  a guy with a career long record of playoff failures who was implicated in doc rivers’ firing way back when.
          (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-11-21/sports/0311210146_1_tracy-mcgrady-doc-rivers-selfish
          rip and tay were well known as followers, guys who would follow the lead of other teammates.  as long as ben and chauncey and sheed were around, you didn’t hear a peep out of those guys.  there was a reason for it.  there is a reason gms run on so much about chemistry.  put one guy in a locker room and all of a sudden a room that might not behave in a certain way can turn on a dime.  i always hated bringing mcgrady on board because of exactly that concern.  and i was not surprised to have found out that he was smack dab in the middle of the locker room problems that surfaced under kuester.
           

          • Apr 12, 20134:09 pm
            by G

            What exactly did that link prove? People thought McGrady was the reason Doc was fired, and not because he did a terrible job coaching there? They loved him in Houston, they just traded him to clear out his contract & they didn’t have any PT for him.

            Kuester’s locker room beefs were with Rip and Tay. They weren’t tagging along with McGrady, Rip  cussed him out at practice a couple times and Tay had problems with him during games. I got the impression McGrady’s participation in the walkout had more to do with solidarity with the other vets, not that he was leading it. 

          • Apr 12, 20134:26 pm
            by frankie d

            if you do a little bit more research you’ll find the stuff alluded to in that orlando sentinal story, had plenty of currency around the league at the time.  in fact, there were plenty of folks who felt at the time that mcgrady was sabotaging rivers with his lackidaisical play.  i definitely recall the situation and it was pretty ugly, with t-mac smack dab in the middle of it.
            gotta love a t-mac fan.  definitely hard to defend one of the games biggest loser.  a supremely talented guy who never won a darn thing, not even a playoff series in his entire career.
            doc rivers? simply one of the best coaches in the league over the last 15 years or so.
            i know who i’d choose in any choice between those two.
            and again, funny, how none of that stuff blew up til a guy like t-mac came on board.
            and for better or worse, t-mac was always a leader.  obviously the team felt so also, as he had a bunch of dnps, if my memory serves me well, right  after the incident.   
            and i will never forget the shots of mcgrady leading the team in laughs right after the incident, a clear slap at kuester.

          • Apr 12, 20134:30 pm
            by G

            Really? TMac was the catalyst? So there were no problems with Curry at all, players LOVED that guy…

          • Apr 12, 20134:32 pm
            by G

            Btw, Kue and Tay were beefing before TMac joined the team.

          • Apr 12, 20134:54 pm
            by frankie d

            of course there were issues and problems before t mac joined the team.
            fact is, however, that nothing of that sort happened until t mac joined the team.
            if you’ve ever taught or coached you know that there are always people in a class or on a team who will only do things if they are led in a certain way.  they might make remarks or do or say certain things at certain times, but all it takes is a certain type of personality, a leader, to take those folks from being mildly disruptive complainers to people who will do what that pistons team did.
            so, yes, i absolutely believe that t mac was a huge part of why the incident happened.
            and again, the team obviously felt the same way as they dealt with t mac more harshly than any of the other players.
            for better or worse – worse most times as evidenced by his dismal team records – t mac was always a team leader.  what happened in detroit was just the latest example. 

          • Apr 12, 20135:12 pm
            by G

            Tayshaun and Kue were yelling at each other during games the year before TMac showed up. Kue had to be restrained from going after Tay in a Nov 16 game, when McGrady had only been with the team a couple months. 

            The stuff in Orlando about McGrady & Doc sounds like bunk to me. I haven’t found anything backing it up. The team was 1-10 at the time, different guys in the front office were trying to protect their jobs (it didn’t work) and needed a scapegoat. 

          • Apr 12, 20135:18 pm
            by frankie d

            btw, tay has thrown every coach under the bus.  except for lb.
            go back and read some of the quotes from tay about flip.  and probably curry, though those aren’t as memorable.  he always had something slick and nasty to say.  usually a question about strategy or end of game shot selection or plays.  it was always something.  most times, he was correct, and i never had a problem with him saying what he said.  but he said the same kinds of things about flip that he said about kue.  except for the buffoonery label. the difference is that no one cared as long as the team was winning. 
            once the team started losing, and there wasn’t a chauncey there to say something nice and positive, tay’s negativity got a lot more attention. 

          • Apr 12, 20135:24 pm
            by frankie d

            tmac…team guy.  when he should have been happy to get an nba paycheck in atlanta.  he just can’t help it.   throwing another coach under the bus.

            “I’m tired of this [bleep],” McGrady said. “You can put that in the paper, I don’t give a [bleep].”
            http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/02/19/atlanta-hawks-tracy-mcgrady-fumes-over-playing-time/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks
            t mac  coach killer supreme. 

  • Apr 12, 20133:37 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    and frank’s deference to prince actually hurt the team.  no way a rebuilding team should pencil in 33 minutes a night to a guy who in his 30′s.  but that is what frank did – to the detriment of a host of young wing players over the last 2 years – and imho he clearly did it to help maintain the peace.
    a huge price to pay for tay’s silence.  or relative silence, that is, as tay still said his little dirt.   he just was not as loud as he had been, 

    • Apr 12, 20133:49 pm
      by G

      Reply

      You make some interesting points, but this is your worst. Since the trade it’s been painfully obvious what Tayshaun gave the team, even in a limited capacity. 

      • Apr 12, 20134:00 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        and what did he give the team?

        • Apr 12, 20134:11 pm
          by G

          Reply

          A better option at SF for one, floor spacing (was their best 3PT shooter), leadership on the court, and he was their best perimeter defender.

          • Apr 12, 20134:35 pm
            by frankie d

            i wish he would have taken that 3 point shot.  he took fewer shot than any of the top 8 or nine rotation players, apart from monroe.  his refusal to take that 3 pointer was a problem as it caused lots of congestion as he typically put the ball on the floor and ended up taking long 2′s or contested shots near the lane.
            best defender?
            again, that it relative.
            but the advanced stats don’t back that up.  he had the worst defensive rating of any of the SFs and his rating was just a hair better than the worst of the top 8 or 9 rotation guys.
            leadership on court?
            taking more and bad shots when the team should be centering around a near seven foot center? leading the team in shots when you have one of the team’s worse percentages?  i don’t call that leadership.  leadership would have been taking many fewer shots and making everyone know that monroe was the team’s focus.
            leadership would have been volunteering to go to the bench – as stuckey did – in order to let the young guys experience starting.
            i always liked tay, but his last few years in detroit were not his best.  nor were they anything that could not have been gotten from other younger players. 

          • Apr 12, 20134:52 pm
            by G

            Prince’s offense and defense were shadows of their former selves, but still better than what Singler brings. Stats, even advanced stats, fall woefully short on defense. To my knowledge there isn’t a stat that accurately shows who’s good at defense and who isn’t. They compare points scored against, FG% against, +/- stuff, but a lot of defense is switching, cutting off plays, etc. Shane Battier never had a good D rating… so what?

          • Apr 12, 20135:01 pm
            by frankie d

            “Prince’s offense and defense were shadows of their former selves….” 
            my point exactly.  and he should be a better player than a rookie.
            but a real “leader” and a guy who is truly a plus to a rebuilding team would have stopped shooting the damn ball so much and he would have voluntarily given up some minutes, and started to let the young guys get needed experience.   this team was rebuilding, not making a playoff run and tay’s refusal to take a slight step back – as evidenced by his incredibly presumptuous comments about his say in his stay in detroit – are not the things a “leader” does.
            good riddance to the guy.  his leaving townn was long overdue. 

        • Apr 12, 20134:17 pm
          by G

          Reply

          *make that “best defensive player”. I was selling him short, he was the Pistons best defensive player before he was traded. This isn’t saying much, because their next best was either Knight or Drummond.

  • Apr 12, 20133:55 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    Rick Carlisle won 50 games with chucky Atkins, Stackhouse, Michael curry, cliff Robinson and Ben Wallace…50 twice and was fired…Frank is gone… 

    • Apr 12, 20134:11 pm
      by Desolation Row

      Reply

      In my opinion, firing Rick Carlisle was the first major mistake Dumars made. He could’ve been the Popovich of the Pistons. Instead, we opted for a culture of coach carouselling. If I had a tiered list of who I thought the top NBA coaches were, Carlisle would definitely be in the top one. That the Mavs just barely missed the playoffs this year despite Dirk’s injury says a lot about how great of a coach he is. I hope they fire him and we scoop him back up… 

      • Apr 12, 20134:23 pm
        by MIKEYDE248

        Reply

        I agree with you completely.  I was bummed out when I heard they they let him go.  It was hard for us to complain, because Larry Brown brought us a championship, but I would have like to keep Rick on instead and see if he could have brought one or more himself.

        • Apr 12, 20134:28 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Rick was good. He became a better coach with Indiana though, and even better in Dallas. When he was with the Pistons I felt like he was a better regular season coach than in the playoffs. Hard to argue with a championship. LB got us 1 and got us to game 7 of the finals the next year.

          • Apr 12, 20134:46 pm
            by MIKEYDE248

            In keeping Rick, they may have not won a championship in 2004, but who knows if they would have won one or maybe even more, if they kept him on a a coach.  Looking back at all the coaches they had since, imagine if it was just him for the past 10 years instead.

          • Apr 12, 20135:03 pm
            by Desolation Row

            People tend to forget this: Before they got Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons under LB had the same exact record as the year prior under Carlisle. After the trade, their record improved immensely and they went on to win a championship. I think Rasheed had more to do with that championship than LB replacing Carlisle. 

            If we have Carlisle instead of Flip in 2006, does Big Ben bolt? If we have Big Ben in 2007, does LeBron drop 27 straight and make it to the Finals? Too depressing to think about… 

          • Apr 12, 20135:14 pm
            by G

            I’ll go back to Rick not being a great playoff coach when he was here.

      • Apr 12, 20134:41 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        agree.  always thought carlisle would be another daly, a guy who grew and matured with his team.
        hiring larry brown was like making a deal with the devil.  yes, you can’t argue with the success, but the price paid was huge.
        carlisle’s biggest issue was figuring out what to do with ben wallace on offense.  teams had started playing detroit 5 on 4 because carlisle refused to bring wallace into the offense.  brown solved that problem and the team improved.  if carlisle had been a bit less stubborn about that, he would have taken the next step with the pistons.

      • Apr 12, 20134:43 pm
        by Pistons87

        Reply

        It was established at the time of his firing that Carlisle was fired because of personality conflicts with Pistons executives and not Dumar’s choice, the same reason why LB was fired because Mr. D was upset with his continuous flirtations with other teams (which was his MO for 30 years).  Dumar’s picked two excellent coaches, his problem in both these cases was an inability to protect/control his hires and insulate them from politics at the Palace, which is a different kind of management failure.  

        • Apr 12, 20135:27 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          the conference where dumars fired carlisle will always be an all time classic.
          both dumars and carlisle both let it be obvious that neither one wanted to go in that direction.  one of the oddest, most pleasant firings i’ve ever seen.  lots of times the gm thanks the guy and gives lip service to his tenure.  you could tell dumars regretted letting him go.

  • Apr 12, 20133:58 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    We are acting like we’re worried to fire another coach because guys can’t go through 3 coaches in five years…the guys were movin forward with are Dre moose Singler Knight and Middleton…they only know frank, they can deal with it…

  • Apr 12, 20137:33 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    If your a GM you have to have one goal- wins that lead to championships.

    Frank has done a great job building a culture… But does he get more wins out of his roster than he should, or less, or just as many wins as the roster allows.

    I think his decision making brings less wins than the roster deserves.

     

  • Apr 12, 201310:05 pm
    by Ari

    Reply

    I don’t get the hate for Frank.  When he was hired it was obvious this team would struggle and was in a building stage.  He’s gotten the young guys to develop and has won his share of games when you compare the Pistons to teams in similar situations.  This team had it’s share of injuries as well and even Frank was out for 6 games, in which the Pistons went 0-6 BTW.  The players also seem to like him as I’ve read supportive quotes from Monroe and Drummond.  This is a team with 5 rookies on it, 3 second rounders too, injuries, and Monroe and Knight are young as well.  I don’t see how any knowledgeable basketball fan could have expected much more than this.  The only acceptable gripe I would see is he played Maxiell a bit too much, but there is something to be said for bringing Drummond along slowly too, and it seems to have maximized his impact on the court.  If the goal was sorely a few more wins, Dumars should not have traded Ben Gordon and talked Ben Wallace out of retiring.  That would have been pretty foolish, however, just for the honor of getting swept by the Heat in the first round, if that was even enough to make the playoffs anyway.  I think Frank definitely deserves to return next season and be given a fair shot of making a go with a more complete and established roster.  Hopefully the Pistons realize this too. 

  • Apr 12, 201310:46 pm
    by Robert Bayer

    Reply

    The reason for the hate for Frank .. at least from my standpoint is that he blames the players so much, nearly always for every loss, and he does it publicly.  That is NOT a professional head coach. It would not take much research of games lost that Frank has done some pretty dumb stuff throughout the season. Certainly he has failed to win even with a good PG like Calderon, and he has failed to make Knight, one of the hardest working players in the league, into a good PG. Why was he ever given a 4 year contract?  I would respect Frank a lot more if he would simply blame himself and the bad player rotations (how long did he keep Drummond out for Jmax the Magnificent?) and questionable play calling strategies. A leader who will not accept responsibility for losses but instead seeks to place the blame on those whom he is in charge of .. bascially is not a leader. Thus, Broom this guy fast.

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