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Lawrence Frank ‘already knows his fate’

Marc Stein of ESPN:

Based on every signal for past month: Pistons’ Lawrence Frank will also be let go today.

Consistent word in coaching circles: L-Frank already knows fate but won’t be officially notified until he meets today with owner Tom Gores

If it hadn’t happened already, Frank probably sealed his fate when he delivered Tom Gores his ultimatum. It wasn’t necessarily an unfair option for Frank to present, but it made him very difficult to keep.

Giving Frank one more year is reasonable. Giving him two more years of guaranteed salary probably is not.

36 Comments

  • Apr 18, 201312:47 pm
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    Okay, so assuming all signs pointing that he is out (which is how it looks), who is feasible for Gores to bring in? We know so far that Byron Scott and Doug Collins have been fired and I read earlier that the Zen Master is getting the itch again. Also have the Van Gundy brothers (wonder if they ever considered doing the Larry and Herb Brown duo brothers coaching gig?). Laimbeer is an option that I know myself and others have thrown out there. Scott Skiles has head coaching experience as well.
     
    Assume the Zen Master is out of the question no matter how much is spent on him. Without the “he wouldn’t want to come here” argument being played (which I believe is never really the case when decisions are made), the team doesn’t have the players to run his triangle offense. As a coach Skiles really hasn’t done anything spectacular – all I can really point to is his teams have made the playoffs 7 out of the 13 seasons he has coached. Not really a big Byron Scott fan as he hasn’t done a whole lot either – 2 eastern conference championships with a loaded Nets team that successor Lawrence Frank drove into the ground and 4 overall playoff appearances in 13 seasons coached. As much as I would rather see Jeff over Stan, I think that Stan Van Gundy will be one of those heavily considered.
     
    I don’t know. I really enjoy the offseason and the maneuvering teams do to try to make themselves better. I just don’t know what is going through Gores’ mind right now and I wish I did.

    • Apr 18, 201312:52 pm
      by Reaction

      Reply

      I want Mike Budenholzer. Imagine the dynasty that could arise if we got some decent players with that type of coaching. He has been Pop’s assistant for so long and has received so much praise from Pop even to the point that Pop said that Mike knew the offense better than himself.

      • Apr 18, 20131:04 pm
        by Desolation Row

        Reply

        Sold.

      • Apr 18, 20131:12 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Sounds good to me. Personally, there are things I like and don’t like about SVG and McMillian. Budenholzer is a bit of an unknown, but being the top assistant available, I’d slot him in there with those 2. Doug Collins looks like he lost his touch, Byron Scott was never that good to begin with, and I think JVG is pretty married to his announcing gig.

    • Apr 18, 20131:05 pm
      by Desolation Row

      Reply

      Scott Skiles… intriguing. Most intriguing.

      Certainly an upgrade, I’m down.  

      • Apr 18, 20131:16 pm
        by G

        Reply

        He’d be an upgrade over Frank, but his coaching style grates at players and he eventually loses them. All three coaching stops he was either fired mid-season or resigned in anticipation of getting fired. He’s good with young squads though, which pretty much describes the Pistons.

    • Apr 18, 20131:10 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Collins is taking a front office position so he is a no.  I don’t like Scott since he was just let go from a similar rebuilding project that he was unable to improve over 4 years, he may be a good coach but that seems like proof he isn’t a good fit based on our situation.  People keep saying Laimbeer, but being a great player doesn’t make you a great coach.  The womens game is night and day from the mens game just like college coaching doesn’t often extend to NBA coaching.  SVG and Budenholzer are nice options.  I don’t think SVG should be held too accountable for the Dwight stuff since Dwight handled that situation horribly all around and he has proven to be able to build a solid team around a big man centerpiece.

  • Apr 18, 20131:12 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    byron Scott fired…so i know frank is gone

    • Apr 18, 20131:22 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Hope you’re not suggesting the Pistons hire Scott…

  • Apr 18, 20131:32 pm
    by Ryank

    Reply

    I’ll throw a name out there: Isiah Thomas
     
    I don’t want him making personnel decisions, but as a tough guy coach he might be the edge this team needs.  He’s done okay coaching…he’s failed terribly managing.  I think this team needs an ass kicking coach…Bobby Knight would fit the bill.  Obviously this is a high risk choice.
     
    I will say that I believe this team needs a fiery presence.  Doug Collins would be a better coach and bring that edge, but I read he’s staying in Philly as a consultant…I don’t blame him for wanting to step from the side line for a few years. 

    • Apr 18, 20131:50 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Other than the fact that Isiah has had a negative impact every place he’s coached, <great idea>

    • Apr 18, 20132:04 pm
      by sebastian

      Reply

      RyanK, forget what “G” has to say about Zeke. Isiah would be the perfect choice, as I have submitted his name onto this board on several, previous occasions. Each time to be lambasted by the likes of “G’ and Mr. Patrick Hayes.
      Zeke would be the perfect influence and tutor to B. Knight and would would do wonders for Stuckey’s mental engagement. He would also return a significant number of fans to the Palace, 41 nights out of the year.
      Gores: Fire L. Frank, today. Hire Zeke, tomorrow!

      • Apr 18, 20132:10 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Isiah has ZERO history of being a good coach. He also has ZERO history of developing a PG. Every place he coached was better off after he was gone. Great player, TERRIBLE coach.

      • Apr 18, 20132:17 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        Do you want him to be the PG coach or coach the team?  He could mentor Knight and Stuckey so he should run the whole team?  Look at his track record running a whole team, it is not good.  Ben Wallace could certainly teach Drummond and Moose a thing or two about defense…should he be on the head coaching list too?

      • Apr 18, 20132:23 pm
        by MIKEYDE248

        Reply

        Everything Isiah has done since leaving the Pistons has ended horribly.  I don’t think his name will ever be brought up by management.

        • Apr 18, 20134:57 pm
          by sebastian

          Reply

          The Prodigal Son [Zeke] can return home.

          • Apr 19, 201311:10 am
            by G

            To Chicago? Sure, by all means. Just keep him off the Pistons’ payroll. The guy’s post-playing career has been a disaster.

  • Apr 18, 20131:39 pm
    by Bruce

    Reply

    I’ll take Shaw or Budenholzer.

  • Apr 18, 20131:50 pm
    by Clint in Flint

    Reply

    Laimbeer or Budenholzer

  • Apr 18, 20131:52 pm
    by Keith

    Reply

    My top candidates:
    1) Stan Van Gundy – He built a contender out of Dwight and limited shooters. Managed to field an elite defense around a single elite defender. Obvious Drummond comparisons there.
     
    2) Mike Budenholzer – Inside-outside offensive system that works with all sorts of players. Spurs defense is probably more on Pop, but Budenholzer has been around for a lot of elite defensive teams. Can’t imagine he makes us worse in that regard.
     
    3) Ron Adams – I don’t know if he’s even interested in head coaching, but he’s a defensive guru. He completely turned around the Thunder’s defense as an assistant, despite very poor defensive personnel (one good defender – SG – in the bunch). Has been an assistant with and under Thibideau for a while. Even if he doesn’t have much in the way of offensive know-how, he could eventually give us an elite defense.

  • Apr 18, 20131:52 pm
    by deusXango

    Reply

    Bill Laimbeer, or Brian Shaw would be alright with me if we’re looking for an infusion of knowledge and championship experience in the head coaching chair; we really need to stop with the sexist rationale for not considering Laimbeer, who’s one of our own heroes, and those who’ve been associated with him professionally respect him and have nothing but good things to say about him. If for some reason Laimbeer can’t get outof his New York commitments then I’d go with Shaw for the same reasons.

    My second tier choices would be the two assistants in San Antonio, Brown and Budenholzer; their long association with a consistent winning organization, that has a philosophy and system in place, is something that would be of great benefit to a new owner with high exspectations. Tom Gores has knowledgable people to do everything but run his basketball team. Joe Dumars is the overseer and shouldn’t be telling his coaches what to do, but listen to what they need to succeed.

    BTW: Laimbeer would be good for the foundation of the team which is Drummond and Monroe, two rising big men stars.   

    • Apr 18, 20132:13 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Why is pointing out that the WNBA and NBA require different coaching skills sexist?  College and NBA coaching are different and I can see why people think this is a bad comparison because it is like saying College and the WNBA are both below the NBA so it isn’t the same, but that isn’t why they are different.  Guys could be great NBA coaches and not good college coaches because the game is played differently, not better or worse. 
      Elena Delle Donne was just interviewed about all of the Britney Griner in the NBA speculation and her response was that she thinks people should stop comparing the NBA and WNBA games and respect that they are different.  It isn’t about comparing it is about accepting the differences.  The WNBA just added the defensive 3-second rule…that alone would completely change a defensive scheme.

      • Apr 18, 20132:30 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        I think the point is that Laimbeer has already played at the professional level. If anyone thinks he wouldn’t know how an NBA is run, they are kidding themselves. The fact that he did so well in the WNBA still implies that he knows how to utilize talent/players. Not every NBA team is the same, their systems and personnel vary vastly. A good coach works with his players to get the most out of them regardless. I can’t imagine transitioning from the WNBA to the NBA is much of a jump for Laimbeer precisely because he knew the NBA game first. It’s not the intricacies of offense and defense that he needed to learn in order to coach, it was the authority and presence to implement a vision through others. He proved that in the WNBA.

        • Apr 18, 20132:34 pm
          by G

          Reply

          The major difference between coaching in the WNBA and the NBA is managing egos. This is a big part of coaching in the NBA, whereas coaching in the WNBA is a lot more like coaching college ball. College coaches haven’t translated well in the NBA for exactly that reason. Laimbeer played in the NBA, but he wasn’t very well liked when he played. Questions about his ability to handle an NBA team are completely legitimate.

          • Apr 18, 20133:06 pm
            by Keith

            I don’t disagree, and I would hope that’s something that could be parsed out in the interview process. But, you could say the same about many assistant coaches as well, heck even a number of retread head coaches. I think that’s one thing that Frank actually helped the team with. He didn’t really have to deal with the idiot egos of coaches past, but he also set a precedent that he wasn’t going to be swayed by players’ whims. 
             
            I think for a team with noted locker-room problems, that’s a much more legitimate concern. Currently, I don’t think we have those players. Stuckey is the only one I would even question, and it’s not hard to ignore him as a coach when he’s playing like garbage. Our team is young, relatively high character, and moldable. Maybe Monroe gets uppity if we give him the max, maybe Drummond starts demanding more minutes/touches. We don’t really know. Right now, though, I don’t think it is the kind of issue that would throw a coach out of the running.
             
            I don’t think we need a super strong leader in the head coach. I think the guys we have want to improve and find an identity. I don’t think Laimbeer would be worse than Scott Brooks (OKC) or Eric Spoelstra (Miami). Both came into situations with either young or motivated teams. They didn’t start out as particularly sharp or authoritative, but they both grew with the teams and ended up good coaches. Laimbeer would be more similar to Brooks (also a former player), taking over a very young team that really wants to get better and listen to a coach.

          • Apr 18, 20133:15 pm
            by Huddy

            Those are good points about the team character.  Coaching is really hard to gauge.  People say Spoelstra is a good coach but is he a good coach? or does he just coach Lebron Wade and Bosh?  I don’t really see any mind blowing play calling, the Heat have the best roster and they are the best team idk how we can quantify what spoelstra adds to that.  Even before when it was wade’s team I always feel like if you are coaching Lebron, Wade Kobe, Durant they are probably doing a lot of their own decision-making.  D’Antonio literally said the other day that he would have liked to rest Kobe, but he would have went and checked himself in the game anyway.  Brooks and Spoelstra both benefit from the roster they have.   All their key pieces played at a high level basically from day one.

          • Apr 18, 20133:27 pm
            by G

            Spoelstra’s got a good team, but he’s also got them playing at a VERY high level. They move the ball as well as any team in the league and play FANTASTIC team D. That doesn’t happen unless the coach is good, I don’t care how good your talent is. 

          • Apr 18, 20133:28 pm
            by Keith

            In Spoelstra’s case, I do think you have to give him some credit for the defense. Lebron and Wade were individually good defenders, but Bosh wasn’t, and the defense they currently run really isn’t anything any of them have done before. He built that system around having elite athletes. There are probably just a handful of teams in the league that could run that same system effectively, and it works. It covers up a lot of their weaknesses and gets the ball back in the hands of their playmakers.
             
            With Brooks, it’s useful to remember that Westbrook wasn’t very helpful his first two years. Durant was only just above league average as a rookie. Players tend to get retroactively remembered based on how they are now. But OKC was a really bad team those first few years, even with Westbrook-Durant. Guys generally don’t just start as superstars. The really important part was that Durant and Westbrook were relentless in their drive to improve and succeed on the court. Brooks gave them the coaching they were already looking for, and they improved in significant leaps each year. I think our guys or more similar to that situation. Monroe wants to be a great big man, he wants the Olympics and recognition that comes with it. Drummond is as raw as they come, but you can tell he wants to compete and win. Put a coach in place that can provide the actual coaching they need, and they’ll take it.

          • Apr 19, 201310:29 am
            by Huddy

            @G I will give you the team D since that involves everyone.  Moving the ball well?  yeah because Wade and Lebron just toss the ball to each other all over the place, no body else is racking up assists or anything.  You have to admit it is easier to coach a team like that. 
             
            @Keith Durant averaged 20 ppg as a Rookie and Westbrook was putting up 16 and 8 his second year.  the second year they were together those two went from 23 wins to 50 wins in the season and made the play offs.  They may not have been All Stars their first year, but that is really rapid growth and is not a few year years of being really bad by any means.

          • Apr 19, 201311:20 am
            by G

            The way the Heat move the ball suggests a good offensive system. Check the Zach Lowe article on Grantland, back when the Heat were on their winning streak. It was much more than LeBron & Wade passing it between themselves. They had good spacing on the perimeter, and quite often all the passing didn’t lead to an assist, it just served to move the defense around while searching for weaknesses. There were also some advanced versions of PnR and screening that they did that utilized guys like Battier and Birdman to the best of their abilities.

        • Apr 18, 20132:46 pm
          by Huddy

          Reply

          My point isn’t that Laimbeer can’t coach the NBA it is that people who think he isn’t a lock to be able to do so aren’t sexist because they understand that the NBA and WNBA are vastly different.
           
          IMO I don’t think anyone doubts Laimbeer understands the game, but being a good player and coach are different.  His WNBA career is certainly a good sign for his coaching ability, but WNBA skill sets and strategy are different so just because he utilizes them well doesn’t mean that will translate in NBA coaching.  Just like anyone who hasn’t been a head coach in the NBA (former players, assistant coaches, college coaches) Laimbeer is automatically seen as a risky choice because he is unproven.
           
          People are entitled to their opinions about who is a good fit as the Piston’s head coach, I just don’t buy the sexist argument. 

    • Apr 18, 20132:59 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I’ve had this exact discussion after this guy made the same kind of claim once before. I pointed out you can think there is a chance Laimbeer’s coaching might not translate without being a sexist. The two do not have to be related. I wish he’d stop saying that. It’s a cheap way to make it look like his argument is stronger than it is, and frankly it is unproductive. There is no need to insult everyone who disagrees with him.

  • Apr 18, 20131:57 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    Nate McMillian, Stan Vangundy, Laimbeer, Bernie Bickerstaff, Hollins if he leaves Memphis or Scott Mitchell

  • Apr 18, 20132:49 pm
    by sebastian

    Reply

    What if Joe appoints himself as the next Head Coach. He knows the game; was essentially a point guard in his day; was a great teacher of the pro game to a young, Grant Hill; and is responsible for creating the current roster and any other additions to or subtractions from, the roster?
    Joe could be the bridge to the next, head coach; or he can become what Pop has become to the Spurs.

    • Apr 18, 20133:09 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      Pop has also had a great GM with him the entire time. As great as Pop is as a coach, he doesn’t completely run the organization. I simply don’t trust Joe with that much responsibility. He hasn’t even been a great GM the last half decade, hard to see him being better with more on his plate.

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