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Jeff Green leads Celtics over trifling Pistons

Detroit Pistons 93 FinalRecap | Box Score 98 Boston Celtics
Greg Monroe, C 39 MIN | 11-22 FG | 2-3 FT | 17 REB | 3 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 6 TO | 24 PTS | +3Monroe has averaged 18.3 points, 13.2 rebounds on 59 percent shooting in six games against Boston over the last two seasons. Tonight he was great offensively and on the boards, but he also turned it over, partially because he gets the ball too far from the basket, and the Celtics double him hard late in possessions. But he wasn’t bad defensively, either, especially on the times he switched out on Paul Pierce or Jeff Green.
Andre Drummond, C 21 MIN | 4-6 FG | 0-3 FT | 9 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 8 PTS | -10The only reason the Pistons had any business being in this game was because Drummond and Monroe dominated the undermanned Celtics frontcourt on the offensive glass. Drummond’s bounce definitely hasn’t been hindered since his return from the back injury — unfortunately his free throw shooting since returning (1-for-12) is still turrible.
Brandon Knight, PG 37 MIN | 2-10 FG | 2-2 FT | 3 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 7 PTS | +3I don’t even know how to describe this. Some days it looks like Knight’s lost because he doesn’t have the ball in his hands, then he gets a night like tonight where he and Stuckey are the ONLY ball handlers and this happens. Defense wasn’t bad, but the offense, topped off by missing a wide-open layup in the final minutes, oye, it wasn’t pretty.
Rodney Stuckey, PG 37 MIN | 5-16 FG | 11-15 FT | 2 REB | 4 AST | 1 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 22 PTS | -13You know who hates losing games late in the season when teams are jockeying for draft position? Stuckey. He’s always had a knack for finishing the year strong (outside last season) and that’s been no different with this year’s late-March, early-April run. Hopefully next year’s April starting shooting guard — heck, or small forward — is someone like, say, Andre Igoudala, and not Rodney Stuckey?
Kyle Singler, SG 25 MIN | 3-7 FG | 1-2 FT | 5 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 7 PTS | -6The Celtics packed the house in a game against the Pistons, isn’t that cool to see in an NBA arena the Pistons are playing in? Anyways, Singler was one of the few Pistons murdered on defense by Jeff Green. There was much blood, much effort, but very little result on the part of Singler.
Jonas Jerebko, PF 27 MIN | 6-10 FG | 5-5 FT | 5 REB | 1 AST | 3 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 19 PTS | +5He was also a member of the “let’s try to defend Jeff Green” club. Tonight wasn’t a great one on that side of the ball for Jerebko, but he was again productive on offense. He’s moving without the ball and taking what the defense — or extra pass — gives him.
Charlie Villanueva, PF 23 MIN | 2-17 FG | 0-0 FT | 9 REB | 5 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 4 PTS | +1F- is the grade I’d give if I could. I don’t get why he plays big fourth quarter minutes. I don’t get how he’s still so out of shape. I don’t get why he’s playing over Drummond in the fourth (ok, I do, the minute limit), and I don’t get how he goes from missing an open-ish 3-pointer with a minute left to completely not guarding Jeff Green, who made the dagger 3-pointer on the ensuing possession. Brittany Griner would have helped more tonight.
Khris Middleton, SF 23 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -3He tries, you have to give him that. Middleton’s not a great defender, but he gets some steals and when he gets open shots, he’s proven he’s capable of making some. Too bad he’s stuck out there most nights with black holes like Stuckey and Charlie V.
Kim English, SG 7 MIN | 0-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -5He was a non-factor, but he did find a way to crank up a 3-point attempt, which is good, I guess, considering that’s what he’s out there to do?
Lawrence Frank
He’s feeling the rest of our pain with the Andre Drummond minutes limit, but overall he’s done a decent job getting guys in positions to succeed this week. He can’t control two of his rotation guys shooting a combined 3-for-27. I still don’t understand how Charlie V missed the potentially game-tying 3-pointer in the final 50 seconds. That play, along with the previous one for Monroe, were the best late-game plays Frank has drawn up all season.

177 Comments

  • Apr 3, 201311:47 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    We should at least give Brandon Knight one more season (full season) at the PG position. 
    Draft a shooting guard
     -If we get the first pick – Draft McLemore

     -If we don’t – Draft Oladipo 

    • Apr 4, 201312:07 am
      by Nick

      Reply

      I agree with you, but I’m starting to like Oladipo more than Mclemore . I just like what Oladipo brings to the table. He seems like a fearless competitor. Kind of like Russell Westbrook. Either one of them would be an upgrade over what we got now.

    • Apr 4, 201312:19 am
      by robertbayer

      Reply

      i agree too about BK7 at PG .. but not with Frank as the head coach. I feel LF has more to learn about the NBA than even Brandon Knight. I have never hated a head coach more on any Michgan based team. I just dont get why so many sports writers love this guy. LF talks the talk but cannot walk the walk. I blame Frank for Knight getting worse and worser. Unfair in all appearances to do that but …

    • Apr 4, 20131:07 am
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      -Brandon Knight should 35+ minutes at the PG with pure shooters around him (controls the ball all the time, no matter who is on the floor) <—– this way we can truly evaluate him and judge him!

      -Also Monroe and Drummond should play 35+ Minutes – what the hell, young player like Knight, Monroe, and Drummond should get a lot of minutes! This is a pointless season so why not play your future players a lot of minutes so they can develop and learn. 

      -Fire Frank – Please get rid of the garbage! Yes garbage!

      -Draft Oladipo or McLemore – I like their attitude we have to many nice players on the team! We need some action! …..oh and also play them 35+ minutes

      -Sign good bench player!

      -Sign a good small forward that can shoot!

      -Work on Middleton, he looks good!

       

      • Apr 4, 20131:29 am
        by oats

        Reply

        That’s a terrible plan. Maybe Knight should earn his starting job before we hand it to him. Heck, maybe he could show the slightest sign of being able to competently run an offense before we hand him the starting point guard spot. Even if we aren’t ready to give up on the Brandon Knight at point guard experiment, that doesn’t mean he needs 35 minutes a game there. Use him as the backup and get a look at him. If he starts showing signs that he can take on a bigger role, give it to him then. I don’t get why we should let Knight keep dragging down the team while trying to develop him. We have other guys on the team who will develop slower if their point guard is bad, and Knight has unquestionably been a bad point guard so far.

        • Apr 4, 201310:47 am
          by Keith

          Reply

          Completely agree. Fans are so ill-informed and unreasonable about the development of talent. The fact is, players do not all make major jumps throughout their career. Most end up not that far from where they started, and that’s why they spend their careers on the bench or in a very specific role. The other thing is that people here seem to be projecting a ton of skills that Brandon Knight has NEVER shown, and were never projected to have.
           
          Here are Knight’s scouting reports at the end of his Kentucky season:
          May 3 Update: Knight had a very good year at Kentucky and played well enough in the NCAA tournament to get himself drafted in the top 10. With Marquis Teague coming in next season, he risks being moved to an off-guard position and watching his draft stock plummet. Scouts still have questions about his position and upside, but in a draft that is weak on point guards, he should be the second or third point off the board.”
           
          Right away it says that Knight (a top 10 pick) probably gets moved off the ball if he stays. Also, scouts aren’t sure he’s a PG, and his stock has a lot to do with the weakness of PGs in the draft.
           
          Apr 20 Update: Knight has declared for the 2011 NBA Draft. Knight got off to a shaky start at Kentucky, but by January he looked like the best NBA prospect on the team. He’s a bit hard to project because it’s a little unclear just what he is. If he’s a point guard, he has good size, quickness and a jump shot but doesn’t see the floor particularly well. If he’s a 2-guard, he’s a bit undersized for his position. Still with the dearth of guards in this year’s draft, he looks like a lock for the top 10 if he stays in the draft.”
           
          More questions about his position. Notes that he doesn’t see the floor well. Again we see that Knight’s stock has a lot to do with a lack of PGs in the draft.

          “Apr 5 Update: Knight is a tough one to peg. He had the best game of his career — a 30-point outburst against West Virginia — and hit two game-winners for Kentucky against Princeton and Ohio State.

          But it wasn’t all easy sailing for Knight in the tournament. He really struggled shooting the ball (only 26-for-79 from the field) and had 17 turnovers. In his toughest game, matched up against Walker, he shot 6-for-23 from the field.

          Knight clearly has talent, but scouts that question his ability to step in and run a team have legit concerns that weren’t totally satisfied in the tournament.

          Nevertheless, he could still end up being the second point guard off the board by going ahead of Walker on draft night. He’s younger, taller, a better shooter and a better defender.”
           
          Scouts don’t think he can run an offense, and he turns the ball over the lot. Against better competition, we begin to see his offense breaks down a LOT.
           
           
          Looking at the scouting, Knight is pretty much exactly who we should have expected him to be. He’s not a PG (and never has been), he has great defensive potential, and his offense struggles against quality competition. Everyone is out here trying to say that Knight just needs time, that he can develop into this completely different player, but it’s not realistic. After two years, shouldn’t we have seen SOMETHING that tells us he’s a PG, or a quality scorer? A great example is Jeff Green. He’s a former #5 overall pick. He’s even played big minutes for good teams. He tore us up and has had a couple more really big games in the last month. But then you look at his year as a whole, then you look at the stinkers he throws regularly between the good games and you remember: this guy really isn’t that good.
           
          Knight is a great person, and he might end up being an Avery Bradley/Tony Allen type defender. But, like both of those guys, he’s probably never going to be a great passer or scorer. Forcing the team to work for a role player is dumb team-building. Putting a role player in his proper role (defender off the bench) and building around your stars (Monroe-Drummond) is the only way to succeed.

          • Apr 4, 201311:30 am
            by G

            What. I’ve. Been. Saying.

            Well done. Some people are masters of living in denial though, and this will have no affect. 

          • Apr 4, 201312:13 pm
            by tarsier

            Exactly, all us “Knight bashers” really like Knight, but we also see him for what he is.

          • Apr 4, 20135:47 pm
            by George

            Bravo Keith!  Just as Tarsier says, we all think BK is a nice, hard working guy, but we have to look at him realistically.  He could be a nice bench guy for a veteran playoff team, but for a team like ours, we need to seriously do what we can to make a competent starting lineup.

      • Apr 4, 20134:41 pm
        by RussellC

        Reply

        Go and get Josh Smith. Pay him the Max. Get this generation’s Sheed. A good defender, head case that will make you scream but still. The team needs someone with attitude. If you do that you can possibly make a trade with Houston, Monro for Parsons and some of those number one picks they have stashed. I know that sounds crazy but that would help fill out the team. Drummond and Smith would be this generation’s Ben and Sheed.

        • Apr 5, 201311:01 am
          by G

          Reply

          You’re right… that sounds crazy.

  • Apr 4, 201312:02 am
    by Brady Fredericksen

    Reply

    Oladipo is an interesting guy. I don’t think he’ll flop, but I don’t think he’s ever a star, either. It’s a matter of wondering if the Pistons can take a safe pick at, likely, #4 or #5 when they need a stud. 

    • Apr 4, 201312:12 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Do we need a star player? Yes but drafting a guy that is just ends up being a solid starter is also a need. A guy like Oladipo or Porter could be the glue that makes Monroe, Drummond and Knight come together as a unit. So yes we need a star but if that can’t be had in the draft then we might eventually have to over pay one. 

      • Apr 4, 201312:21 am
        by Nick

        Reply

        The only players I would take out this draft is Oladipo, Mclemore , and Burke. And I didn’t even care for Burke til I saw Knight miss that damn layup tonite.

    • Apr 4, 20132:29 am
      by Worm

      Reply

      I have to slightly disagree about Oladipo. I think at the very least he will be Tony Allen + transition offense. But the fact that he has shown such stark improvement on all his offensive weaknesses since his freshman year, plus his elite athleticism, I believe gives him a chance to be a top 5 SG. My only worry about him is that this team is in desperate need of shooters, and a shooter he is not. Although they are quite easily picked up in FA (Lookin at you James Jones).

      • Apr 4, 201310:07 am
        by Keith

        Reply

        Oladipo shot over 44% on threes for the year, taking almost 2 a game. Nobody is efficient on off the dibble threes anyway, so I don’t see how you can say Oladipo isn’t a shooter.

        • Apr 4, 201311:46 am
          by Worm

          Reply

          Just a fairly small sample size, yeah he was great this year and showed a lot of improvement over the past couple years, but he isn’t a pure shooter like McLemore. That’s all I meant.

  • Apr 4, 201312:17 am
    by haydzzz

    Reply

    Oladipo or mclemore please but what happens if jose goes elsewhere whos our pg? 

    • Apr 4, 201312:26 am
      by Ron

      Reply

      Jarrett Jack’s a free agent and we still have Brandon and Will Bynum….We could even go after Tyreke Evans and have him and Brandon split ballhandling duties. Not great options obviously but we wouldn’t be totally screwed at least.

      • Apr 4, 201312:59 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Forget Jack. If the Pistons aren’t bringing back Calderon, they should make a play for Teague.

  • Apr 4, 201312:23 am
    by Ron

    Reply

    Brandon needs to grow his braids back, maybe it’ll open his game up lol. Honestly though he’s so predictable, I think someone mentioned before that Brandon works extremely hard but lacks rhythm to his game and I think that’s right on point. He doesn’t know how to apply his skills to the game. He does all of these dribbling drills over the off-season but in games all he does is predictable straight line drives to the basket; no creativity, no right to left crossover, no spin move, no hop step gather just a forced drive everytime. 

    He has talent he’s just extremely inflexible in using it. When I watch him play it makes me wonder if he approaches every possession with a canned response of what he’s gonna do instead of just reacting to the defense and letting the game come to him. I get the sense that he likes to micro-manage things which is good for an organized college student but if you’re a professional basketball player, you need to be less cerebral and more instinctive. 

  • Apr 4, 201312:40 am
    by tmc

    Reply

    Otto Porter < Middleton

    • Apr 4, 201312:53 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      based on what? you just saying so?

  • Apr 4, 201312:51 am
    by Trent

    Reply

    Jerry Sloan. Stan Van Gundy. Two names that the pistons should be extremely interested in.

    Our talent isn’t progressing and hasn’t progressed under Frank and we don’t look any better now than we did in the lockout season. That’s a problem. LF is the problem.

    Joe D will do whatever that it is he does over the offseason player-wise but if we don’t have a strong, unchallenged leader for our young, talented team we will go nowhere. 

    • Apr 4, 201312:59 am
      by Jon

      Reply

      agreed. van gundy, oladipo in the draft and as many shooters as possible in FA. the defense would be potentially elite and the offense would be good enough with shooters spreading the floor for our bigs

    • Apr 4, 20139:01 am
      by G

      Reply

      What talent are you talking about?

      • Apr 4, 201310:50 am
        by Keith

        Reply

        Monroe and Drummond.

        • Apr 4, 201311:32 am
          by G

          Reply

          Right. Drummond looks great, Monroe… not sure if his lack of progress is Frank’s fault or his own. Is there any other talent on this team?

          Basically I’m saying lack of talent is a bigger problem than lack of progress. 

  • Apr 4, 20131:05 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    five draft choices i wanna get

    1. Porter
    2. Burke
    3. Smart
    4. Oladipo
    5. Mclemore

    Porter brings alot to our plate. We need a good small forward, since singler is not as good as tayshaun prince. Burke and Smart are good guards, burke should be the priority, if not, smart is not a bad pick…. he’s the harden 2.0…

    • Apr 4, 20131:20 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Harden could shoot and Marcus Smart can’t. I am baffled by this comparison. Smart looks a lot more like Tyreke Evans to me.

      • Apr 4, 20133:23 am
        by Blocks by Dre (Burke for the win!!)

        Reply

        My point exactly. The Harden 2.0 nonsense is exactly what it is..nonsense. 

      • Apr 4, 20139:06 am
        by G

        Reply

        They’re both basketball players… Both went to college west of the Mississippi… Neither racked up a ton of assists in college…

        Btw, 2.0 implies a “new & improved” version, but a lot of people use it to mean “I think they’re similar and hopefully the new guy is CLOSE to as good as the old guy”. 

        • Apr 4, 20139:45 am
          by Blocks by Dre (Burke for the win!!)

          Reply

          So do you believe Smart is ” Harden 2.0″ based on what you define 2.0?

          • Apr 4, 201310:41 am
            by G

            Absolutely not. Maybe Harden -2.0. The “homeless man’s” James Harden. I think he’s got a shot at improving (I think Smart is only 19), but so far he he looks like an inefficient combo guard who gets a lot of steals and rebounds well for a guard.

            He’s actually more like John Wall, except slower and without all those passing skills. 

  • Apr 4, 20131:08 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    drummond tonight had 9 boards…. i hope he’s making more rebounds… he needs to at least get 10 boards since he is starting and needs to help monroe…

    monroe at PF gets 17 boards… very good.. but i hope drummond can hold the fort at Center… we need more from him…. its clear that he wasn’t playing best since he came back…. not yet… but i hope i can see his efficiency go up once again…

    • Apr 4, 20131:22 am
      by oats

      Reply

      You seem to have misread the box score. There is a part of it that keeps track of minutes, and Drummond only played 21 of them. 9 boards in 21 minutes is pretty great. He might start, but his minutes are the same as they were before he entered the starting lineup.

      • Apr 4, 20131:32 am
        by oats

        Reply

        That wasn’t intended to come off quite so dickish. Sorry about that. Still, the box score is there and it explains how many minutes he played. Besides, even if he started the 9 boards would be good. 9 rebounds a game is a top 20 mark in the league. There is no way you can look at 9 boards and criticize that number.

    • Apr 4, 20131:41 am
      by Mark

      Reply

      Agree with Oats. 9 rebs in 20 min is awesome.

      In fact Drummond only avg 7.5 rebs in 20 mpg on the season and everyone raves about his rebounding because of it. So I don’t see how getting 9 in 20 min is subpar.

    • Apr 4, 20131:43 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      I hope you realize that he only played 21 minutes and is actually on a time limit as he gets his legs under him after coming off injury. A player getting 1 rebound every 2 minutes isn’t exactly being lazy on the glass. The other thing you have to factor in is that the Celtics were shooting in the high 50% range for most of that game so there weren’t many rebounds to be had. Drummond had 7 offensive rebounds which was mainly due to the fact that we couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean if we’d tried. Finally i think you need to worry less about rebounding numbers and more about why they were shooting at such a high clip. The team defence is not there atm and a lot of that probably has to do with the fact that all the players are just going through the motions of the rest of this sorry ass season. 

    • Apr 4, 201310:55 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Not a lot of teams have their front court both averaging 10 boards a game.  Even if Drummond had played more minutes 26 rebounds between the two of them isn’t half bad.  With two good rebounders there are going to be games where one gets more than the other, it is not as if the ball bounces to the same side every time.  If you look at their numbers and add the fact that Drummond was on limited minutes I think they look pretty nice together, our weakness was at PG and SF.

  • Apr 4, 20131:37 am
    by Reaction

    Reply

    The only Drummond stat I am pretty disappointed in right now after the injury is his blocks.. but then again maybe hes just trying to get back into it

    • Apr 4, 201311:38 am
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      The main thing you have to look at is how many shots has he altered, not how many he blocked.  If he is altering shots and making people miss, it equals the same thing as a block.

  • Apr 4, 20131:37 am
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    I feel bad for Charlie its not his fault, hes in no position to succeed!!!! The dude has more heart than anyone on the team, puts great effort on defense, shoots pretty well, and rivals ben wallace with strength.

    • Apr 4, 201311:41 am
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      I didn’t watch the whole game, but I thought CV was pretty active all the way around, he did pick up 9 rebounds.  He is just a limited player that seems like he gives up on defense way too soon.

  • Apr 4, 20131:39 am
    by DetroitP

    Reply

    ^complete sarcasim idk who I don’t like more him or LF.  I still think we are closer to the playoffs than what many think.  greg and dre are gonna be great together, if we can some how pull a magic trick and keep jose, fire frank, get a sg and sf, fire frank, we’d be alright.  I think Knights still hurt or mentally not there, hes not this bad idk whats up with him.   

  • Apr 4, 20131:43 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    Moose was a beast tonight and deserved an A.

    24 pts and 17 rebs? 

    • Apr 4, 201311:43 am
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      He did have 6 turn overs though.

  • Apr 4, 20131:49 am
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    No need to apologize Oats; you were spot on with your assessment of Knight. Hard not to like the young man, and you gotta love his toughness but it is what it is. He’s just not there yet, but I do say give him at least one more year and make him earn his pt whether its at PG or SG. I’m starting to think that the other 3 or 4 teams that passed on him starting with the Jazz did it for a reason. For the record, I’m starting to doubt whether or not he should continue to be lumped with Moose and Drummond in being touted as our core of the future. We’ll see. 

    Gonna be an interesting offseason….one of the few postseasons that I’m actually looking forward to that the Piston’s aren’t taking part in the playoffs. 

  • Apr 4, 20131:56 am
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    For the record I think this was one of Monroe’s better games of the season – the turnovers. 
     
    Noticed since that Chicago game he’s been playing with much more intensity on both sides ball. Actually it was since the Toronto game at the Palace where Amir Johnson and Jonas V put up Moses Malone type numbers. Maybe that was a wake up call, but this is the    Moose I’ve been waiting for. Keep playing angry Moose! 

  • Apr 4, 20131:58 am
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    Good point. Charlie V. had 17 shot attempts off the bench, WTF! 

    Not like he was on fire either. 

  • Apr 4, 20132:03 am
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    “Angry Moose”, I kind of like that. Sounds a little more intimidating than just Moose. 

    Moose sounds like an insult of a nickname for a person that’s slow, awkward, big, uncoordinated, clumsy and not so bright. 

  • Apr 4, 20132:19 am
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    Hence the nickname.
     

  • Apr 4, 20132:35 am
    by Worm

    Reply

    Since these things always turn into draft conversations, anyone have thoughts on potential 2nd rounders? If Patric Young declares and is still on the board, I wouldn’t mind him to hopefully replace Maxiell.

    • Apr 4, 20133:04 am
      by Jon

      Reply

      cory jefferson from baylor if he declares

    • Apr 4, 20139:54 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      Nate Wolters – pg insurance in case Calderon leaves
      Or Adreian Payne as a 3rd big 

      Last pick I’d take hey chance on James Ennis for DJ Stephens. They both are really athletic highlight doctors that could pan out at small forward 

  • Apr 4, 20135:17 am
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    Stuckey got a C and he had 22pts 4asts and 0 turnovers?? Monroe got a B+ and he had 24pts and 17rebs?? Patrick must be behind this nonsense, hahaha…

    • Apr 4, 20138:10 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Stop just looking at the stats and watch the game as well and you’ll realize why certain grades are given out. Monroe is our best player and he is expected to bring it every night. The A’s should only be given out sparingly so they actually mean something when they are awarded. You’d assume Monroe will get an A when he shuts down his man on defence as well as filling the stats on offence. Maybe Stuckey could’ve had a higher score but the kind of basketball he plays isn’t good for the team as a whole and even when he gets good numbers it never seems like he plays well. I guess anyone that dominates the ball like that has the same issue.

      • Apr 4, 20139:18 am
        by G

        Reply

        Stuckey didn’t shoot too well. Half his points came from the line. His TS% for the game would be about 49%, which isn’t particularly good. So despite scoring over 20, he wasn’t very efficient offensively & didn’t do many other things besides make FT’s.

        • Apr 4, 201310:19 am
          by Keith

          Reply

          I just want to say, getting your points at the line isn’t a bad thing in and of itself. The 49% TS is terrible, though, because Stuckey simply does not hit enough shots elsewhere for the free throw line to save his game.
           
          That’s why Stuckey got a C. Points are only a useful measure of a player when factoring in efficiency. Stuckey is terribly inefficient, so getting a lot of points just means he was chucking it. Stuckey has been Iverson-bad this year.

          • Apr 4, 201310:45 am
            by G

            Yep, that’s why I brought up TS%. FT’s count too, but not enough to make up for shooting poorly everywhere else. Plus, Stuckey took 6 threes, which should never happen.

          • Apr 4, 201310:52 am
            by Keith

            It kind of amazes me that Frank doesn’t just sit Stuckey when he starts jacking like that. Stuckey has NEVER been a good shooter, and taking 6 threes is like having 4-5 extra turnovers.

  • Apr 4, 20139:45 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Perfect World Off-season

    Sign Tyreke to play SG …
    Draft Bennett
    Let Knight move back to PG

    Oh and for the love of GOD Fire Frank!

    • Apr 4, 201310:26 am
      by Keith

      Reply

      Why do people want Tyreke on this team? He’s no better a passer than Stuckey, he cannot shoot at all, and he’s a terrible defender. He’s more efficient than Stuckey (faint praise), but that’s about it. Also, are you not a little bit suspicious that he had his (by far) most efficient season in a contract year? Further, consider this, if he was really that good the Kings would never let him go (he’s a RFA).
       
      Tyreke only compounds the problems we already have: no spacing, limited passers, bad shots, and bad defense.

      • Apr 4, 201311:41 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3983/tyreke-evans

        http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3235/rodney-stuckey

        Stats say…Tryeke Pretty much does EVERYTHING better than Stuckey…and By the end of next season Tyreke will be 24 and Stuckey 27 ….

        Its not even close

        …limited Passer? Tyreke averages 5 ast for his career at the off Guard position…twice he nearly averaged 6 ast…. he only shot under 45% once in his career, and he increased his 3 point shooter % this year… im not saying he is a GREAT defender, but he is solid… I’d rather you just say you dont like him..than make random stuff up…

        Suspicious of what? Tryreke came into the league at 19 year old…won rookie of th year…

        in 10-11 he sat out like 20 some games due his foot….then he was moved to SF rather than SG…..

        He bounced back in 11-12

        Now in 12-13 he putting together one of his better all around seasons….

        Id be suspicious if he was 28 or 29 years old…. and played below average most of hos career and them all of a sudden exploded… Tyreke is a good young player…. and because he can play either SG or SF…it gives the Pistons more options with Knight and Calderon…

        • Apr 4, 201311:43 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          Id be suspicious if he was 28 or 29 years old…. and played below average most of his career and then all of a sudden exploded… Tyreke is a good young player…. and because he can play either SG or SF…it gives the Pistons more options with Knight and Calderon…

          • Apr 4, 201311:51 am
            by G

            Evans would be an upgrade over Stuckey and possibly Knight, but he’s not a great defender and he’s a total black hole. 

          • Apr 4, 201311:56 am
            by Keith

            It happens all the time, at all ages. I’m always leery of players who play inordinately better than normal in their contract year. And the main issue isn’t whether he is a good player in a vacuum (Stuckey is a good player too, not as good, but good nonetheless). The issue is that Tyreke is such a bad fit for our team. This isn’t the #1 pick where the dropoff in talent is so big that we have no choice but to take the best individual talent. Tyreke wouldn’t be the best player on our team, and isn’t the best player available in free agency. A shooter would be a lot more positive, and it’s not difficult to replicate Tyreke’s passing (very average) and defense (very poor).

          • Apr 4, 201312:11 pm
            by G

            …for less money.

    • Apr 4, 201311:33 am
      by G

      Reply

      Why do you want Knight to be PG is the bigger question.

      • Apr 4, 201311:49 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        We need to stop starting over… im not sold on Calderon because of his age..and honestly I believe if he stays in Detroit its will be more about a last big pay day than him wanting to be here…

        Knight has room to grow and develop…In the right System…. His length, size, athletism, and shooting at the worse…can be very productive for us….and he wants to succeed in Detroit…

        Im not sold on Burke or Oladipo….but im not against it either

        • Apr 4, 201311:56 am
          by G

          Reply

          Keith had a pretty good comment higher up in this post. It addresses why Knight at PG is a bad fit & how he never has shown the ability to run PG at an NBA level. You should read it.

          • Apr 4, 201312:15 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Why do people just repeat whats already been said?

            I said Knight is a Scoring PG, that needs to be in a scoring PG system to for his abilities to be utilized correctly…. He is not a traditional PG, he is not a Pass first PG…he is a willing passer…

            Im not defending Knight lack of skills to run the PG position, what I am saying is the PG position is what it use to be….

            So unless you have an elite PG it really does not matter… this league is powered by the ability to shooting, scoring, and defensive athletism.

          • Apr 4, 201312:17 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “Im not defending Knight lack of skills to run the PG position, what I am saying is the PG position IS NOT what it use to be….”

          • Apr 4, 201312:29 pm
            by G

            Except Knight isn’t that great at scoring. If he was like Kyrie Irving, I’d have less of a problem with his AST/TO ratio. The problem is he can’t score like Kyrie Irving, so he doesn’t bring any value as a scoring PG.

            You seem to want to strip this team down & build it around Knight, the way the Cavs have with Irving. How’s that working out? Can you picture Knight taking 20 shots a game and dominating the ball, the way Irving does? It would be a DISASTER. He already turns it over at a high enough rate (which is why they’ve tried to run the offense through Monroe more, except HE turns it over a ton too), give Knight a usage rate like Irving’s and we may see George McGinnis’s turnover record get broken. 

          • Apr 4, 201312:31 pm
            by G

            Btw, every single scoring PG in the league has a better AST/TO ratio than Knight. Even Irving, who’s AST/TO ratio isn’t good.

          • Apr 4, 20131:19 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”You seem to want to strip this team down & build it around Knight, the way the Cavs have with Irving. How’s that working out? “”

            No you seem to have me mixed up with “BRANDON KNIGHT” the commentor

            I’ve said ONE MILLION TIMES! Trading Knight is the best solution because he does NOT FIT THIS SYSTEM! I said knight needs to be in a system that owns him to play to his strengths…I said I dont even like the idea of moving him to the SG position….

            BUT!

            If he is going to play PG…you have to give him more options than Greg Monroe and Singler….

            i’ve also said Knight IS NOT as PASS FIRST PG…He never was …Not in HS and NOT in College… So him trying to become one Pass first PG was never going to work….

            If you’re going to Move him to SG he needs to 16-18 shot attempts like other TOP SGs….

            In fine with trading Knight , and saying it just didnt work as long as we get quality or something worth while in Return… but he’ll be 22 next season, he can shoot the ball, and score the ball, he is athletic, he is very quick, he is tough ….and he still has potential in the right system

            thats my mindset, and its been that way most of the season

          • Apr 4, 20132:54 pm
            by G

            I’m not exactly putting words in your mouth, you’re the one who said in your dream scenario that the Pistons get Tyreke as a SG and move Knight to PG.

            This is a terrible idea, by the way, since both have been inefficient scorers so far, and Evans is kind of a black hole. 

  • Apr 4, 20139:50 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Anthony Bennett ! Folks…. you guys are not scouting has anyone seen him play?

    He reminds of Better version of josh Smith….

    • Apr 4, 201310:27 am
      by Keith

      Reply

      Except Smith is an elite defender and Bennett doesn’t even try. Smith is also a great passer for the position, while Bennett doesn’t set up anyone but himself. Smith is a lot better than he gets credit for.

      • Apr 4, 201312:06 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Elite Defender? He is a ONE TIME 2nd All-Team Defender…been in the league for like 8 years now…. He’s a Great weakside shot-blocker, but he does not always or often lock down his man…

        Smith is an solid passer, but Bennett already has a more developed offensive game than Smith had at the same age…

        Im Fine with Bennett being a dominate scorer…that what this team needs…someone that can take over games and not be timid… he had to be selfish on that UNLV team..as he went the team went

        • Apr 4, 201312:18 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Kobe has been on the all-defense teams for the past three years in spite of being no better than average on that side of the ball at this stage of his career. Boozer got a vote in spite of being one of the worst defenders in the league starting at either PF or C.

          In other words, all-defense teams are a joke. 

  • Apr 4, 20139:58 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    We just need to build around BK, get him some scorers. Reggie Miller, Kevin Durant, Karl Malone, and Shaquille Oneal

    • Apr 4, 201310:47 am
      by G

      Reply

      Bet he could get at LEAST 5 assists a game with that crowd. Maybe 5.1…

      • Apr 4, 201312:20 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        The commenters with handles “Brandon Knight” and “I HATE FRANK” would complain that Shaq spends too much time backing down his man in the paint and deprives Knight of the assists he earned.

        • Apr 4, 201312:51 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Yeah. Maybe if there were more spot up shooters in that lineup, Knight could get more assists. He really just needs a system that plays to his strengths, that’s all. That Shaq/Malone lineup sounds too post-driven to get assists. Nobody ever led the league in assists playing with a guy like Malone, right?

          • Apr 4, 20131:05 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            well…if you wanna be techical

            Other than John Stockton a Hall of Famer…one of the greatest PG’s in NBA history..

            Name the Laker Pg that played with Shaq that racked up ast?

          • Apr 4, 20131:45 pm
            by G

            Ignoring the fact that Kobe was a black hole & a chucker when Shaq was in LA… Nice move.

          • Apr 4, 20131:53 pm
            by G

            How about Penny Hardaway in Orlando?
            Averaged about 7 assists his first 3 years in the league with Shaq
            The three years after Shaq left, he averaged less than 5.

            Or Wade?
            Averaged 7 assists over 3 years with Shaq
            Career average is 6.1 

          • Apr 4, 20132:27 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, and Horance Grant… are nice other options to pass to…

            And Penny was a GIFTED player…. could have been even better 

             

          • Apr 4, 20132:44 pm
            by G

            Of course, I find examples that get in the way of what you think and you find some lame excuse… THOSE GUYS WERE STILL ON THE TEAM WHEN SHAQ LEFT! 

          • Apr 4, 20132:50 pm
            by G

            So Shaq was just getting in the way of Penny’s greatness? Penny was Fredo. Those 3 years with Shaq were the best of his career. I know he got injured when he left Orlando & wasn’t the same, but he was pretty over-rated to begin with.

          • Apr 4, 20133:22 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            NO, I was saying that Penny was a gifted player and could been been btter….it was just an imcomplete thought injuries sidelined his career

          • Apr 4, 20133:43 pm
            by G

            Penny was basically Tyreke Evans, except his numbers got a boost from playing with Shaq. After that he was a low efficiency scorer, and then he got hurt his 2nd year in Phoenix & was less effective than before.

          • Apr 6, 201310:23 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            Your worse comparison ever… Penny had incredible handles and PG skill…his numbers tilted off not because of Shaq leave but because of injuries …he was considered one of the “Outstanding” players on his time when healthy ..meaning GREAT and ELITE

        • Apr 4, 20131:00 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          LOL!

          You guys have tunnel vision …im looking at the big picture….

          All im saying is the system is busted, EVERY PLAYER got worse except for Bynum and Charlie…

    • Apr 4, 201311:02 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      You really can’t expect a young PG to succeed unless you put at least that kind of talent around him.  You need to be careful that none of those guys dominate the ball though, let BK run the show.

      • Apr 4, 201311:38 am
        by G

        Reply

        Meh. He had his shot.

        • Apr 4, 201311:50 am
          by Huddy

          Reply

          I hoped you sensed the sarcasm.

          • Apr 4, 201311:53 am
            by G

            I didn’t, actually. I’ve been spending too much time arguing with people who actually think that.

            There should be a sarcasm font or something. 

          • Apr 4, 201312:04 pm
            by Huddy

            Yeah your “meh” seemed like a rather exhausted response to someone trying to actually argue BK needs Reggie Miller Shaq Karl Malone and Kevin Durant to get a proper shot at PG.  Don’t worry I’m not that someone.  The kids a potential good 6th man like Lou Williams with better D and maybe a little worse offense.  Theres nothing wrong with that, plenty of lottery picks do worse.

          • Apr 4, 201312:21 pm
            by G

            Check the comments in this post from yesterday and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

  • Apr 4, 201310:58 am
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Jonas Jerebko is finally looking like himself again. He’s playing with a lot of confidence and his outside shot has been falling as a result. Moving without the ball and having good chemistry with Moose has also helped down the stretch. Don’t understand why CV continues to play down the stretch in crucial moments, I guess it’s for the best, as long as we compete but come up short and lose these last few games. I’d like us to have the third worst record behind Orlando and Charlotte, Phoenix and Cleveland are in the way though, and especially the CAVs 10 straight losses…isn’t that clearly tanking now? lol

    • Apr 4, 201311:50 am
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      Jonas could have been putting up numbers like this all year, if he wasn’t stuck to the bench for most of it.  Great to see him finally be getting some good minutes.

  • Apr 4, 201311:20 am
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Anthony Bennett is solid. At 6’8 with his frame can anyone see him playing the 3 in the NBA? Or will be like Jason Maxiell undersized PF. He’d probably still be way better then Max, two inches taller anyways. But a lot of people as well as I have been saying it’s either Mclemore, Porter, Oladipo, or Burke for the Pistons…what about Bennett if he falls to us? Does he play the 3 or come off the bench behind Monroe. 

    I think he gives another dimension to our offense and defense. You can play him with the second unit at the 4 with Moose or Drummond. Or if you play him at the 3, you can go really small with Jose and Knight.

    I’d still take Mclemore, Porter, Oladipo, or Burke who I believe could provide a lot of value to our current team, but what if we land Bennett?

    • Apr 4, 201311:47 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      I think D is a big concern with him, unsure he is fast enough to guard the 3 or big enough to guard the 4.  On offense his shooting is nice, but his inside game is unlikely to be effective against NBA sized 4s.
       
      The small forward thing doesn’t really make sense, just because he is 6’8″ doesn’t mean he will make a small backcourt better on D, those guys will still be undersized for guarding their own men.  
       
      I think your right about him behind Mclemore, Porterm Oladipo, and Burke.  If they are all gone I think its a toss up with Bennett and Shabazz, both are questions marks as far as their style of play working in the NBA. 

    • Apr 4, 201312:26 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Bennet is in the same boat as Noel. Excellent prospect, certainly worth grabbing if he’s the best guy left, but he fits other teams better than the pistons. So he’s unlikely to be there with no better fit around. However, I’d certainly take him over Burke.

  • Apr 4, 201311:21 am
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    He can also knock down the 3, and has a great mid-range game. Which helps him at both the 3 and as a stretch 4. 

    • Apr 4, 201311:34 am
      by Keith

      Reply

      He doesn’t seem agile enough to guard the three, and I think his outside shooting is a little questionable. That is, he gets a big benefit from the shorter 3 pt line. I think a close comparison would be Carmelo Anthony (obviously a big difference in talent). Undersized for the 4, but at his best as a smallball 4. At the three, he could still be effective offensively, but I think he would get eaten up on D.

  • Apr 4, 201312:21 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Yeah I think you guys are right about Bennett, still feel his mid range game will be effective in the NBA. But I feel the Pistons are in a good position for this draft, anyone in the top 7 of this draft will add value to this current roster, perhaps not make us significantly better over night, but an upgrade from our team and performance/record is definitely likely. I don’t think Pistons will fall below the 7th pick and if they can lose out the season, they can finish with the 3rd worst record, only Cleveland and Phoenix are in the way.

    Here’s how I’d rank the top 7 players in the Draft:

    1. Nerlens Noel
    2. Ben Mclemore
    3. Otto Porter
    4. Anthony Bennett
    5. Victor Oladipo
    6. Trey Burke
    7. Shabazz Muhammad

    I think Marcus Smart falls big time, because of his inconsistent 3-point range and he’s a turnover prone PG, who often is found playing in the paint and backing down undersized college guards. Wouldn’t be surprised if he goes No. 2 or 3, it would probably help us, as either Porter, Oladipo, Bennett, Burke fall even more if that happens, just as long as the Pistons don’t draft Marcus Smart. 

     

  • Apr 4, 201312:22 pm
    by Keith

    Reply

    BTW, it’s not mentioned enough, but if we really have our choice of any player, I think we have to take Noel (assuming he passes Doctors’ checks). Talent-wise, he’s pretty clearly the cream of the crop. Nobody has his combination of athleticism and position-specific skills, except maybe Oladipo (who is 2 years older and thus has less upside). At 5, it probably won’t come into play, but if we jump into the top three, and Noel is available, I think we have to take him. 
     
    Fit obviously becomes an issue with another PF with limited range, but down the line it opens up significant possibilities for trades. Noel could probably do a lot of what Drummond does. That’s both good and bad. Good to have two physically dominant post players, but bad because you can’t run the pick and roll with both of them at the same time. Maybe either develops a jump shot, but it’s probably not something we would bank on. Still, having three elite big men is never a bad thing.
     
    I don’t think anyone else in the draft has star potential, so I would rather grab Noel and work out who to trade for a haul than grab one of these wing players who could easily top out as role players.

    • Apr 4, 201312:35 pm
      by G

      Reply

      I think McLemore has a shot at being an All Star. He’s probably the best scorer in the draft, he’s 19, and he plays solid D. Plus, fit is less of a concern. The 2 best players under contract next year are Monroe and Drummond, with Knight being a DISTANT third. Noel looks good, but not good enough for me to want to get redundant with a top 10 pick.

      • Apr 4, 20131:47 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        Just to clarify, McLemore is 20, not 19. He’s a sophomore. And while that doesn’t seem terrible important, that age difference has a huge effect on expected improvement over time. I wouldn’t take him over Noel because Noel has elite skills in very translatable areas (blocks, rebounds, steals). McLemore is a good shooter, but that’s not even a greatly translatable skill in the NBA (longer line, better defenders). The other things he does well all have to be projected. He’s a great athlete, but not an adept ball-handler, so utilizing that athleticism will be harder. He’s a plus defender in college, but he’s also bigger and stronger than everyone in college, it’s a pretty drastic change when everyone is suddenly as big or bigger than you in the NBA.
         
        McLemore does have great potential, but I think watching his game you see that right now his best role is as a spot up shooter. That’s fine, and still a need for the Pistons, but Noel has just been a whole lot better.

        • Apr 4, 20131:58 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Just to clarify, McLemore is a Freshman, not a Sophomore. And he turned 20 in February, so I must have missed it.

          • Apr 4, 20133:11 pm
            by Keith

            McLemore is a redshirt freshman, he is an actual sophomore. He was ineligible to play at the beginning of his freshman year, but he’s still in his second year at Kansas. I suppose I don’t really know his academic standing, he might still be a freshman level there.

          • Apr 4, 20133:34 pm
            by G

            Gotcha. Point is, he has 1 year of college experience. And he’s younger than Shabazz!

    • Apr 4, 20133:19 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Noel seems to have way more value to just about any other team in the league than he does to Detroit. If he’s there, I think I’d want to shop the pick. I feel like McLemore and Porter have similar (but lesser) potential, but they just fit so much better than Noel that I can’t see Noel making more sense than them. I’d rather try to get one of them and something else instead of just Noel, that makes sense to me. If a decent trade doesn’t come up I’d just take Noel, but I think someone else will want him enough to make a move for him.

  • Apr 4, 201312:50 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    I can see us landing anywhere between 3-5 realistically. But I don’t see Noel slipping that far, I believe that other NBA teams will recognize his talent and ability to be an elite player in the NBA, and if you look at the Magic they need both a center and a SG, some people even have them drafting Marcus Smart to replace Jameer Nelson? So if they get the No. 1 pick I’d say they’d go with Noel, and gamble in the second round or later in the first with a SG. If Noel does slip I think the Cavs get him at pick 3 or 4. My only fear is that the Bobcats will take Mclemore and I really want him! Either way, the Pistons have a good chance at Porter, Oladipo, and Trey Burke, and if they want to consider Shabazz or Smart.

    Noel would be solid for the Pistons considering we have no one but Slava to back up Drummond, and no one but Jonas and Maxiell to back up Moose. If the Pistons don’t plan on resigning Max, it probably make sense if he’s available. But I’d be happy with Jonas and Max coming off the bench for us, with their energy and effort.

    But again look at the last three years of the draft, Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, and Andre Drummond have all fallen. Pistons this year are probably in a position much higher then the last three years, so I’d expect one of Mclemore, Porter, and Oladipo to fall to us. If there all gone, then Trey Burke! Which is a win win for us.
     

  • Apr 4, 20131:17 pm
    by Brady Fredericksen

    Reply

    I’ve honestly come to the conclusion that, right now, the safest picks in the lottery would be Trey Burke or Victor Oladipo. I don’t think either is a star in the NBA, but they’re both going to play out to be solid role players — Burke as a Jameer Nelson-type and Oladipo as a pre-ACL tear Tony Allen. Both will be extremely useful, but not studs.

    The problem for the Pistons is, can you reach for one of those two at No. 3, 4 or 5? 

    • Apr 4, 20131:37 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Shabazz is the best scorer in the draft, and probably is the most nba ready….

      • Apr 4, 20131:56 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        The best pure scorer in the draft is probably DeShaun Thomas from OSU, but he’s not athletic enough to take that high. Shabazz I was getting down on late in the year already, and now hearing he’s really almost 21 is a huge red flag. Forget even for a second all the lying involved,  21 year olds simply do not improve nearly as much in the NBA. Shabazz is not efficient enough of a scorer to be called the best already, and if we can’t expect a whole lot or improvement, yeesh.
         
        Shabazz is one of the least safe picks out there.
         
         

        • Apr 4, 20132:20 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          Thomas going Pro?

          Back to shabazz …20 or 21 …. he has a very good NBA body 6’6 220 ..he is an outstanding athlete…. he shot 38% for 3′s …and 44% from the field….he averaged 18ppg and its not like he was gunning …14 shot attempts….and got to the FT like almost 6 times per game…

          I call him the Best scorer in the draft, because I believe he has a legit offensive NBA game….it will be an easy transition for him… to step in as a scorer…. defensively he has to get better…but its more about techique there

          • Apr 4, 20132:36 pm
            by G

            The 3-pt line is 3 feet deeper in the NBA, so expect that 3PT% to drop below NBA average. Shabazz isn’t that great of an athlete, people just thought he was when he was in HS. The tape says otherwise. He has no right hand. 44 FG% is average, not good. It’ll be worse in the pros.

          • Apr 4, 20133:27 pm
            by oats

            Shabazz started the year red hot from 3, and it’s been dropping steadily since then. I think he had a couple good games early, but then he reverted back to the bad 3 point shooter he is. That was his rep in high school by the way, great athlete but bad 3 point shooter. Turns out his athleticism probably had something to do with being the oldest and most physically developed player on the court as opposed to actually being a great athlete.
             
            I also think that given a full NBA season his true shooting ability will bear out, and it won’t be a 38% shooter. I’d expect at least a 4% drop to be just an average shooter. That’s without factoring in the closer line in college. Stuckey shot 37% in his freshman year. I don’t think he’ll be quite Stuckey bad, but I do not think Shabazz will be a good 3 point shooter.

          • Apr 4, 20133:27 pm
            by tarsier

            Muhammad looks like a Delfino caliber player. Nice to have, but you can always find one to pick up in FA for the MLE or less.

      • Apr 4, 20132:00 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Taking the most shots doesn’t make you the best scorer.

        • Apr 4, 20132:30 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          I think we’re that the place where if I say “UP” you will say “DOWN” …You say LEFT and I will say RIGHT

          but its entertaining….

          • Apr 4, 20132:37 pm
            by G

            Well, you say a lot of dumb stuff, so I find myself disagreeing with you a lot. I hope Frank takes that Rutgers job though.

          • Apr 4, 20132:43 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            kind of offended by that….

            I back everything I say with stats , sound logic and the good ole eye ball test….

            Just because you disagree doesnt make it dumb…. Dumb is saying “Knight is the best player on our Team” with nothing to back it  or Dumb is saying ” Knight is a bust” and because a few other players drafted after him have found their nitch sooner….

            But yes… Frank needs to go away

          • Apr 4, 20133:10 pm
            by G

            Are you familiar with the phrase that goes “there are three kinds of lies…“?

            You don’t look at the stats that refer to what you’re talking about, you look at other stats & then try to relate them to your point. I have a problem with that. The other thing is you can’t just blindly look at stats, you have to question them.

            Saying Brandon Knight would be a better player on Charlotte is dumb. It’s ok, I’ve said dumb stuff before too.

            Saying Shabazz Muhammad is a great athlete is also dumb. Maybe compared to you or me, but not as an NBA prospect. It’s actually one of the areas that scouts are questioning with him. The reports coming out of HS were that he was this great athlete, but so far the tape shows him to be a mediocre athlete.

          • Apr 4, 20133:42 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Are you familiar with the phrase that goes “there are three kinds of lies…“?
            “”You don’t look at the stats that refer to what you’re talking about, you look at other stats & then try to relate them to your point. I have a problem with that. The other thing is you can’t just blindly look at stats, you have to question them.”"

            1. PEOPLE DO IT EVERY DAY! You research to prove a point…. Now THAT WAS DUMB!
            “”Saying Brandon Knight would be a better player on Charlotte is dumb. It’s ok, I’ve said dumb stuff before too. “”
            2. LOL!… Yes, I believe in more open guard friendly system Knight would be more productive…What DUMB and INSANE THOUGHT! …. smh…

            “”Saying Shabazz Muhammad is a great athlete is also dumb. Maybe compared to you or me, but not as an NBA prospect. It’s actually one of the areas that scouts are questioning with him. The reports coming out of HS were that he was this great athlete, but so far the tape shows him to be a mediocre athlete.”"

            3. *sigh*…I SAID OUTSTANDING! Athlete…I didnt say Great…, he reported to have a 38 inch vertical… he can run the floor, he has excellent body control, he can finish after contact… OUTSTANDING!… and even if I did say GREAT! it a matter of opinion….

            just because you disagree, dont mean you gotta get all disresepctful especially on a blog….you can respectful choose not to reply….

          • Apr 4, 20134:16 pm
            by G

            Wow. You proved absolutely zero of your points.

            I don’t have a problem with people doing research & using stats to prove their points – as long as the stats have anything to do with their points. Yours often don’t.

            It is dumb & insane to think Knight would flourish in a system that forced him to handle the ball more. He SUCKS at ball handling. The reason the Pistons tried to run their offense through Monroe more was because Knight sucks at running the offense.

            Everybody makes shit up about HS athletes. The REAL on Shabazz is everyone has questions about his athleticism.
            Chad Forde – “Lacks elite athletic ability”.
            Draft express – “Muhammad is a good, but not great athlete, relying more on instincts and superior strength than fantastic quickness or explosiveness, which is a bit more concerning when projecting to the NBA than his height.” 
            If you’re reading anything from 2012, pitch it. It’s based mainly on his HS games. Everything recent says his athleticism isn’t great.

    • Apr 4, 20132:09 pm
      by Keith

      Reply

      I disagree those are the only safe picks. I think Porter is pretty darn safe too. I consider a safe pick anyone who is unlikely to bust – likely someone who shows what he can be already without significant inconsistency. But, like you said, most of those kinds of players are low-cieling players, guys that aren’t ideal as a top pick. You can justify those players as the pick, surely, but the philosophy may be difficult to sell to the fan base (though in Burke’s case, you can probably sell the UM connection and get UM fans to ignore his limited ceiling).
       
      Given the dearth of talent on our roster right now, can we afford to take a safe player over a possibly great player? How likely is it that Noel-McLemore-Bennet-Smart actually become stars or quality starters instead of middling role players themselves. At what point is the reward greater than the risk?
       
      If I’m Joe, I’m looking at this roster and seeing that I need shooters, defenders, and glue guys. I think Oladipo and Porter fit that package the best. But, I’m also thinking that Noel will be a Tyson Chandler-esque defender, and I would take that star power first. Oladipo might be Tony Allen with a jump shot. Porter might be a more well-rounded Danny Granger. Noel could be Garnett, and probably has a floor of Larry Sanders.

      • Apr 4, 20132:20 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Would you put Tyson Chandler next to Dwight Howard though? If Monroe becomes Pau (and that’s an IF, don’t get me wrong), then you have a front line of Pau, Dwight, and Chandler. Not crazy about that.

        What if Porter becomes Tayshaun with a better stroke (this is reasonable, btw)? Then you have Pau, Dwight & Tay. Not bad. What if McLemore becomes Dan Marjele with better defense (also reasonable)? I’d take that against overloading the front court any day.

        • Apr 4, 20132:38 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          I believe (and Im sure many will disagree) … the SF position is the easiest to REPLACE and FILL position…

          You can get away with just have a defensive SF, or Run the floor type, or a spot up shooter type….

          there are not alot of Great SF’s in the league, there are alot of good SF’s and Solid SF’s…..

          And its a position that if you are not natural aggressive you can kinda become complacent…

          that my fear of Porter he will become a complacent 13ppg 6rebs 2.5 ast …. get called a glue guy…. and every year we will be waiting for a breakout season that never comes…(sorry just had a Prince flash back)

          • Apr 4, 20133:30 pm
            by G

            SF may be stacked, but not so much this off-season. I think the Pistons should go for the best PG, SG or SF available, unless there’s a huge drop off between the best big available and the best perimeter player available.

            I get the Prince comparisons with Porter, but they’re not really fair. Porter is a better shooter in his 2nd year than Tay was his 4th year, Porter’s a better rebounder, passer, and defender than Tay was. 

          • Apr 4, 20133:31 pm
            by tarsier

            And yet you like Shabazz? What part of that doesn’t apply to him? Except that he seems a bit of a head case and so is unlikely to be referred to as a glue guy.

          • Apr 4, 20133:49 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            @Tarsier

            IMO …. Shabazz has more of a next level game…. he does have an edge to him, and thats what I like about him…. head case maybe? i dont know the story..i didnt follow UCLA basketball… but other than the last game I saw in the tournament his played really good basketball showed me alot….

            But its okay if you guys like Porter… I’ve watch them both play, and I like the way Shabazz plays better….

            Everything doesn’t need to turn into a an extended debate……

          • Apr 4, 20134:02 pm
            by G

            Shabazz vs. Porter… Porter does everything better than Shabazz does. Everything. Defense, shooting, passing… If it’s a basketball thing, then Porter is better at it than Shabazz. If you like the fact that Shabazz has an “edge” to him, fine, I’ll take the better basketball player.

          • Apr 4, 20134:24 pm
            by Nick

            Brother you took the words right out of my mouth. That’s why I’m leaning more toward Oladipo than Porter

          • Apr 4, 20134:56 pm
            by G

            I like Oladipo, but I’m not sure if that 3-pt shot is legit yet. If it is, his offense should translate better than I think it will.

        • Apr 4, 20132:53 pm
          by Keith

          Reply

          I think Noel is a lot closer to the good side of those scenarios than anyone else. And more importantly, if I have Dwight, Pau, and Chandler, I could trade any of them for a better Tayshaun/Majerle AND extra picks/players whenever I want. You don’t quibble talent at the top of the draft because the dropoff is so steep in just a few picks. I would rather deal from a position of strength in the future than be stuck with a lesser player long term.
           
          I think the difference here might just be how we are evaluating the players. I think Noel has a much better chance of reaching his potential than anyone else in the draft. He’s the ONLY player I think will legitimately become a star. I think he’s much further ahead of the rest of the player in the draft than you probably do. To me picking someone other than Noel first would be like choosing Harden over Griffin in 2009, or Horford over Durant in 2008. I can understand picking between McLemore, Porter, Smart, or Bennett based on fit, because they are all about the same talents to me. But Noel is a tier above.

          • Apr 4, 20133:32 pm
            by G

            I get the pick if you’re assuming you can trade it, but Dumars shouldn’t make the pick unless he’s got a nice trade lined up. 

          • Apr 4, 20133:35 pm
            by oats

            Right now it looks like Harden over Griffin would have been understandable. Harden is a stud. At the time it would have seemed foolish, but most people thought Harden at 3 was dumb. The thought Curry or some those other guys were just too much better than Harden. Turns out they were clearly wrong on him. Harden really isn’t a good example of this and can actually be seen as an example of this thinking back firing.
             

          • Apr 4, 20134:00 pm
            by Keith

            Griffin is still the better player, so it still makes sense. But yes it’s more about perspective at the time. Griffin was definitely going to be a star, Harden has potential. Both ended up really really good, but you don’t pass up on the better chance at stardom for the lesser chance. Just consider if OKC had gotten Griffin instead of Harden. Blake was a superstar from day one, and would have demolished Miami inside last year. Harden didn’t fully break out until this year.

          • Apr 4, 20134:15 pm
            by oats

            If Griffin is better, it isn’t by much. He’s down to a 18 points and 8.5 rebounds this year. That drop off is due entirely to a drop in minutes, but that’s kind of my point. Griffin was blessed with 38 minutes and 36 minutes his first 2 years in the league, which meant he had every opportunity to put up stats. He’s also been a focal point of what they do offensively the entire time he’s been in the league. Harden has only broken out this year, but he’s been getting lesser minutes and was asked to be the 3rd perimeter guy on his team. If he was with the Clippers from the get go he probably would have been the man the whole time the way Griffin has been and his career would look quite different.
             
            As for Griffin in OKC, that might be true. That has a lot to do with who they have up front though. He’d not only start right away, he’d be a huge upgrade. Harden volunteered to take a glue guy role in OKC and accepted the 6th man role to make certain the team always had a guy who could create shots for himself or his team mates on the court at all times. That shouldn’t be viewed as a knock on him.
             
            My main point is most people felt that Curry was better than Harden, and that his outside shooting would make OKC unstoppable. Harden convinced him that he was the perfect 3rd man and that he had a knack for figuring out what his team needs and when. OKC stretched to get a guy they felt filled a bigger need. Turns out the also got the better player, but filling the needs of their roster was the main point of drafting Harden.

          • Apr 4, 20134:52 pm
            by G

            The problem comparing the hypothetical Harden over Griffin scenario to the current situation is Griffin was viewed as the consensus #1 pick. There is no consensus pick this year. Some people say Noel, some say McLemore, some say Smart.

            Last year, Anthony Davis was going #1 no matter which team was picking. Same with the John Wall draft, the Blake Griffin draft and the LeBron draft. This year, the field is a lot closer to whoever the #1 guy is (and I’m not sure it’s Noel, to be honest).

          • Apr 5, 201310:03 am
            by Keith

            I suppose that’s my point, G. If Noel wasn’t hurt, I think he would be the consensus #1 pick. I think the ONLY reason teams are even considering McLemore and Smart is because we didn’t see a full year of Noel. Statistically, it’s not close – Noel has the best translated numbers, size, and athleticism. Eye test tells me Noel was a gamechanger whenever he took the court (obviously mostly on the defensive end). McLemore wasn’t, and Smart was too inconsistent and ball-dominant on offense.

          • Apr 5, 201310:10 am
            by G

            You’re saying it’s more like the Kyrie Irving draft. At the time Irving was viewed as probably the best player, but there were a lot of questions about his health and the fact that he didn’t play many college games, so he wasn’t a consensus #1. I buy that. I’m still not sure if Noel is the best player in the draft or not, but I can buy the Kyrie Irving scenario.

  • Apr 4, 20131:54 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Yeah Brady I think your spot on with that conclusion..gona b interesting.

  • Apr 4, 20132:37 pm
    by Nick

    Reply

    This is gonna be a crazy draft this yr. Very unpredictable

  • Apr 4, 20136:22 pm
    by RussellC

    Reply

    These days its not so much a point guard that you need but someone else who you can run the offense through and get their own shot. Lebron, Carmelo, KD, Kobe, Pierce, or Jeff Green. A guy who can handle the ball and make good decisions or who will make the other team pay attention.

  • Apr 4, 20138:45 pm
    by GET WELL SUSAN

    Reply

    “”Wow. You proved absolutely zero of your points.
    I don’t have a problem with people doing research & using stats to prove their points – as long as the stats have anything to do with their points. Yours often don’t.
    It is dumb & insane to think Knight would flourish in a system that forced him to handle the ball more. He SUCKS at ball handling. The reason the Pistons tried to run their offense through Monroe more was because Knight sucks at running the offense.”"

    1. I tire of this Brandon Knight Debate…So you believe what you want, and im convinced its the system … we wont see eye to on this and thats fine… 
    “Everybody makes shit up about HS athletes. The REAL on Shabazz is everyone has questions about his athleticism.
    Chad Forde – “Lacks elite athletic ability”.
    Draft express – “Muhammad is a good, but not great athlete, relying more on instincts and superior strength than fantastic quickness or explosiveness, which is a bit more concerning when projecting to the NBA than his height.” 
    If you’re reading anything from 2012, pitch it. It’s based mainly on his HS games. Everything recent says his athleticism isn’t great.”

    So pretty much you have an issue with the word “Outstanding” rather than me saying “GOOD”?  …because I didnt use the words Elite, Great, or Superior ….  Is that the Issue? lol … smh …

     

    • Apr 4, 201310:04 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Do you know the definition of outstanding? Exceptionally good, standing out from others due to its superiority. Calling him a good athlete is ok, outstanding athlete means more than just good. Outstanding, elite, great and superior would all be interchangeable in that sentence. Good changes the sentence completely.

      • Apr 5, 20138:15 am
        by G

        Reply

        I too tire of the Brandon Knight debate. It’ll be funny when Frank goes off to coach Rutgers and Knight still sucks at PG though.

        Yes, outstanding means “exceptional”, “elite”, etc. Shabazz is not an “outstanding” athlete for an NBA prospect. Oladipo is. Shabazz, not so much. I wouldn’t say lack of athleticism is necessarily a weakness, but then again… Draftexpress finally did a Shabazz Muhammad scouting video. They don’t list athleticism as a weakness, but his offensive game lacks the explosiveness that I associate with an athletic player. He doesn’t really take it to the rack, shoots a lot of jumpers and floaters. Watch the whole thing if you like, or just the weaknesses part if you want to see what I’m talking about.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ISAOSMA2kP8
         

        • Apr 5, 20139:05 am
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          “”Yes, outstanding means “exceptional”, “elite”, etc. Shabazz is not an “outstanding” athlete for an NBA prospect.”"

          As many DUMB americans…I dont always use words as they are completely defined in webster…So i often use the word “outstanding” as to say GOOD or GOOD JOB… when i work with youth I will say Outstanding or Good Job… im not going to say “ELITE” ….. but anyway….

          “”I too tire of the Brandon Knight debate. It’ll be funny when Frank goes off to coach Rutgers and Knight still sucks at PG though.”"

          1. Then I would be wrong, for the record… since DAY ONE!, I said Knight is not a traditional PG, Frank however is a traditional coach. Im not say Knight is “OUTSTANDING” (sorry couldnt help myself) … but he is a solid to good player… he is a scoring PG put in a system and with players that did not mesh with his skill set ….BUT WE ARE NOT GOING THERE!!! … If he struggles next year i say cut ties…im not attached to BK…but there no reason to draft players who have a certain skill and not max out that skill before they try to develop something else….

          “”I wouldn’t say lack of athleticism is necessarily a weakness, but then again… Draftexpress finally did a Shabazz Muhammad scouting video. They don’t list athleticism as a weakness, but his offensive game lacks the explosiveness that I associate with an athletic player. He doesn’t really take it to the rack, shoots a lot of jumpers and floaters. Watch the whole thing if you like, or just the weaknesses part if you want to see what I’m talking about.”"

          I’ve seen it, but if you notice they contradict themselves…in the “Strengths”…they are talking about how powerful he is and they show him finishing under the basket, and then later in “Weaknesses” ….. they say he cant finish ….

          The guy is 6’6 220-225 with a 6-11 wingspan at worst he is a GOOD Athlete…can not teach scoring ability…or desire ….Im not saying he is the 2nd coming of Kobe, IM NOT SAYING he is the 2nd coming of Kobe, IM NOT SAYING he is the 2nd coming of Kobe… Repeated so it doesnt be understood…. But ALL Reports and when you watch him play he has that Mumba in his game…Fearless… 

          • Apr 5, 20139:57 am
            by G

            Mumba? Who’s that? The only “mumba” in Muhammad’s game is the fact that he likes to take bad shots & ignore his teammates. Your use of “outstanding” to mean “ok” reminds me of this Seinfeld episode - “breathtaking”. 

          • Apr 5, 201312:33 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            SMH…who said “Ok”????…nevermind lets that go to…

            How many times have you seen Shabazz play outside of the tournament?

            You say he took bad shots, the offense was designed for him to score, before they had no other scorers on that UCLA team..

            I love college basketball…. and I’ve seen all the guys being talked about him this board play several times….. can base it all on the NCAA tournament…if so Porter very average, and has less take over game ability than Shabazzz…and physically he isnt close to Shabazz development….

            Not saying YOU…but people here was comparing Porter to Rudy Gay, and other than Lebron when he plays SF ..name a More Athletic SF than Rudy Gay…. but nobody said nothing…
            except for me

            I heard people say Oladipo is a good 3 point shooter, he only took 35-40 three’s, and that he struggles terrible in the half court, He is getting Wade comparison because his athletism but people forget how gifted a ball-handler Wade was coming out of college…this kid isnt even close..He is Tony Allen right now…with more hype

            Burke is NOT CRIS PAUL he is more Nick Van Exel…which isnt bad…but he relys on his jumper and the 3 point shot verse getting to the basket….

            All im saying is all of these guys have major weaknesses…. its based on the who fits our need the best

          • Apr 5, 201312:42 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            SMH…who said “Ok”????…nevermind lets let that go to…
            How many times have you seen Shabazz play outside of the tournament?
            You say he takes bad shots, the offense was designed for him to score, because they had no other scorers on that UCLA team….he shot 46%  for 2′s …and 37% for 3′s
            I love college basketball…. and I’ve seen all the guys being talked about on this board play several times….. cant base it all on the NCAA tournament…if so Porter was very average, and he has less take over game ability than Shabazzz…and physically he isnt close to Shabazz development….
            Not saying YOU…but people here was comparing Porter to Rudy Gay, and other than Lebron when he plays SF ..name a More Athletic SF than Rudy Gay…. but nobody said nothing…
            except for me
            I heard people say Oladipo is a good 3 point shooter, he only took 35-40 three’s, and nobody talks about his struggles in the half court, He is getting Wade comparison because his athletism but people forget how gifted a ball-handler Wade was coming out of college…this kid isnt even close..He is Tony Allen right now…with more hype
            Burke is NOT CRIS PAUL he is more Nick Van Exel…which isnt bad…but he relys on his jumper and the 3 point shot verse getting to the basket….
            All im saying is all of these guys have major weaknesses…. its based on the who fits our need the best

          • Apr 5, 20131:10 pm
            by G

            Watch a game of Shabazz’s, and I’ve seen the highlights (not basing my opinions on just the tournament). They’re underwhelming. He takes a lot of floaters, ignores open teammates, and does a poor job of creating offense off the dribble.

            The area of his game I think will translate well would be his using screens to get an open shot. I fear his post game will not translate very well. Shabazz has an NBA body, which is good, but the problem is while it’s an advantage in college, he’ll just be one of the guys in the pros. His post game is successful largely because of his size advantage, which will be non-existent in the NBA.

            Porter/Rudy Gay is a terrible comparison, so whoever said that had no clue. Porter is a better shooter, better defender, better passer, and a better rebounder. Gay is more athletic. There are practically no similarities there.

            I have also have questions about Oladipo’s drastic improvements from behind the arc, and the low number of attempts doesn’t help. On the other hand, Shabazz’s stats benefit greatly from strong early production. If you look at his shooting numbers as the season went on, they drop steadily. After the first 10 games he shot .500 from the field and .483 from behind the arc. The next 10 games saw his shooting drop to .423 FG% and .382 3PT%. That’s pretty average, the FG% is borderline bad. The last 12 games he shot .415 FG% & .302 3PT%, which included a game where he shot 2-11 from behind the arc. The fact that he was that cold & still took 11 threes is BAD. 

            He’s not as young as he was supposed to be, nor as athletic (not saying he’s got Laimbeer-hops or anything), and his shot fell apart at the end of the year. Plus he seems like a selfish headcase. I’ll pass, & so should the Pistons. 

          • Apr 5, 20131:35 pm
            by G

            Forgot to mention – Shabazz is basically one-handed. Part of the reason he settles for floaters and contested jumpers is the defense is cutting off his left-hand side. Josh Smith had the same problem, he came into the league one-handed. He’s basically still one-handed.

          • Apr 5, 20133:19 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Out of all the players with glaring weaknesses …I’d rather have shabazz

            Id love Oladipo excitement, and if he does become dynamic scorer…I would kick myself!

            I dont mind Porter, but I have seen plenty of him… he reminds me of Allan Houston but longer…but not as pure of shooter….

            Shabazz reminds me of Richard Jefferson…not the super athletism… but he’s going to run the floor, finish in tranisition, be physical and make open 3′s

            Put like I said it preference

          • Apr 5, 20134:08 pm
            by G

            His last 3 games Shabazz shot 15-52 and 0-9 from 3-pt range. His cumulative TS% wouldn’t rank in the top 30 SF’s in the league nor the top 30 SG’s. His TS% for his last 22 games was barely over .500, which is nearing Tony Allen/MKG territory. He’s much less good than you think.

          • Apr 5, 20135:16 pm
            by G

            Btw, a less-athletic version of RJ is not a top 5 or 6 pick, even in this draft.

          • Apr 6, 201310:41 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            The thing that gets me is your make a big deal about Shabbzz lack of elite athletic ability, but Porter is LESS athletic than Shabazz …. Porter is under developed physically and his quickness is questioned …. Cmon man all of the NBA issues you are putting on Shabazz are magnified for Porter…

          • Apr 6, 20131:44 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            And porter end of the year was a struggle to

          • Apr 6, 20133:26 pm
            by oats

            Muhammad’s game is far more predicated upon athleticism, so not being an elite athlete is more problematic for him than Porter. Porter is also a year younger than Muhammad, so his being underdeveloped is less of a concern. That’s extra true for a team with a competent training staff like Detroit has. He probably won’t ever be as thick as Muhammad, but he’s not built like Prince/Daye. We can assume that Porter will put on weight. Muhammad meanwhile looks closer to his finished weight, given him less room for improvement physically.
             
            Porter’s end of the season doesn’t compare to Muhammad’s. Yeah, Porter had a couple bad games to close the season, but that isn’t a significant sample. In his last 12 games he shots 49% from the field and 40% from 3. His season averages are 48% from the field and 42% from 3. He was actually playing pretty close to his season averages over that stretch. Can you not see how that differs from Muhammad? Muhammad shot 42% from the field and 30% from 3 in his last 12 games. Porter played more or less the same in the final 3rd of the season while Muhammad was playing significantly worse than he started the season. These things aren’t comparable. Even after teams started scouting him and changed their strategies to try to stop him, Porter continued playing consistently. Muhammad meanwhile had his efficiency numbers plummet.

          • Apr 6, 20133:28 pm
            by oats

            Sorry, overstated the age difference a bit. Porter is 7 months younger. Still a rather significant difference though.

  • Apr 4, 20139:01 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Otto-Porter-6528/

     http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shabazz-Muhammad-6270/

     It come down to Preference…. They both have weakness….. LOL! You GUYS SLAY ME!

  • Apr 4, 201310:13 pm
    by haydzzz

    Reply

    Hey guys, how good would it be if we could get both burke and oladipo? one can dream

    • Apr 5, 201312:44 am
      by Nick

      Reply

      That would be the perfect scenario if that happened. We probably would have to trade Knight for it to workout and I’m cool with that. Joe D would be gm of the decade if he made that happen lol.

      • Apr 5, 20131:21 am
        by haydzzz

        Reply

        It would be absolutely perfect, they would compliment each other so well offense and faciltating with athleticism and defense.. Joe D make it happen!

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