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Imagine Brandon Knight still at Kentucky

David Thorpe of ESPN:

I put together an all-tournament team made up of these young NBA players. In fact, a lot of these players are in my weekly Rookie Report. Of course, this list doesn’t assume they would become the players they are now — the NBA develops stars far better with so many more games, and players have so much more time to work on their game — but we can remember who they were when they left college and why they would have been stars in today’s NCAA tournament.

Brandon Knight made that team:

Remember, Knight was really starting to come on late in his freshman season, which is a big reason why he declared for the draft. Taking advantage of that momentum turned out to be a wise move. Had he stayed, it’s easy to believe his Kentucky team would have been among the nation’s top two or three teams, and Knight would likely be its top scorer. The college game is so much more crowded, cramped and tight compared to the pro version of the NBA. So there is a huge premium on shooting. It’s why Knight is on the first team and John Wall is not.

To be sure, Wall was and remains the superior NBA prospect. He is the superior athlete and one of the best passers/athletes ever to play college basketball, but in the college game his lack of shooting ability drops him just below Knight. Knight has many similar attributes to Irving; he’s smart and incredibly hard working. He also has no fear and would thrive as a veteran in the NCAA tournament atmosphere.

Unfortunately, the NBA has so far magnified Knight’s weaknesses. Perhaps Knight’s shift to shooting guard will highlight the strengths that could have made him a star as a Kentucky veteran.

110 Comments

  • Apr 2, 201311:21 am
    by G

    Reply

    If Knight had stayed, then who would the Pistons have drafted, Kemba Walker? Klay Thompson? One of the Morris twins?

    • Apr 2, 201311:58 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Based on the decision making that lead to picking Brandon Knight despite some questions as to our need at the position, I would guess Kemba.  As I look down the line at where guys were valued I can’t see the team jumping down the board very far so Walker would probably have been seen as the best available had Knight not been there.  Kemba’s stock may even have gone up since he would have been even more valuable at his position with one of the better guards not coming out that year.  That is of course based on what I think they would of done at the time, not given what we know about that class as a whole now. 
       
      I tend to think that would have been beneficial to the team.  Guys develop at different rates and I don’t think Knight is just done growing or anything, but when you compare their numbers and the growth from rookie to sophomore year of both guys, Kemba looks like a better choice.  That being said Kemba did benefit from a longer stint in college, which might be the reason why he is ahead in development.

      • Apr 2, 20131:25 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Obviously in hindsight, you’d probably want the Pistons picking Faried, Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson, but from what I remember about the draft coverage, Kemba was slotted to go to the Pistons and the scouting reports all said Knight had more promise (being younger), but Walker projected more as a PG than Knight did. I think we’d have been better off with Knight staying in school. Oh well.

        • Apr 2, 20131:26 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Holy crap is that a long sentence. I need to edit myself better.

          • Apr 2, 20132:36 pm
            by frankie d

            i think kemba would have been the better and more productive pick.
            imho, frank would have buried both faried and leonard on the bench.  he would not have known what to do with either player, as each player is kind of different, with unusual skills.  faried is a JJ-type player, and leonard is a guy who plays great defense, runs the floor and spots up.  but his skills are very raw.  frank has never shown much patience  for that type of raw talent.
            he might have found a spot for thompson, but thompson reminds me of a shorter daye, and frank obviously had no use for daye.
            kemba’s game was always nba-ready.  and his game fit detroit’s huge need.  frank could put kemba out there and he’d know exactly what he’d get from him, game in and game out.  for better or worse.  kemba is exactly the kind of rookie that frank would have been able to roll with.
             

  • Apr 2, 201312:00 pm
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    I was actually just talking about something like this with my buddy the other day. I went back even further. If Calipari was any sort of guy that tried to make players stay and they did, they could legitimately have Wall and Cousins (Seniors), Knight (Junior), Anthony Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist (Sophomores), Nerlens Noel, and any others from the current team or past ones that I may have forgotten (I don’t follow Kentucky all that closely). That’s one hell of a team…
     
    Of course all of this is mute because it can be argued that if any of them stayed, any one who came to fill their positions may not have come (Noel if Davis stayed for example).

  • Apr 2, 20131:27 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

     
    We have to put Knight in a good position to succeed. So far we never did! Please stop blaming Knight for not doing well at the PG position! Ok let’s be honest: When he was playing the PG position we never had any good shooters around him at all!!! Singler sucks, Prince sucks, Stuckey sucks, and Will Bynum sucks. All the players that Knight played with sucked at shooting!  BTW Knight didn’t have the ball in his hands the whole time like Calderon. Bynum and Stuckey were controlling the ball the Whole time when they played with Knight…Also we were playing the three guard rotation (PG’s) a lot…you can’t have 3 players on the court that all want to control the ball! Knight obviously wasn’t put in a good position to succeed.  You can’t just make him play 5 minutes Point Guard and then 5 minutes Shooting Guard (back and forth). To me doing so kills the player! Put some good players and shooters around Knight and let him control the team the whole time. You will see the results. Oh you guys off course are going to mention that he turns the ball too much. Well, all young players do….he will improve! What I would do in this summer is draft a good shooting guard and sign a good SF shooter…and sign some good bench player that can shoot the damn ball!
     

    • Apr 2, 20131:45 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      You must not actually watch the games.  Knight doesn’t have bad assist numbers because of the team.  Jose has much better assist numbers passing to the same guys and Bynum has almost the same number of assists per game in around half as many minutes per game as Knight.  Calderon does not dominate the ball he often defers to stuckey or knight and they play with 3 guards in the game at a time at times just like the did when Knight was the pg.  You are right young players turn the ball over and they can improve, but Knight hasn’t his ast/to numbers havent got ANY better since his rookie year.
       
      Kemba walker is a perfect comparison.  The bobcats are one of the only teams that could claim to be any worse than the Pistons and Walker as a rookie was thrown into the starting role like Knight and is better not to mention improved quite a bit between his rookie and sophomore years on an absolutely terrible team.  Lots of people say its unfair Knight has been moved to SG, but if you really do watch him play he looks much more natural at SG and his production indicates that as well.
       
      I appreciate having faith in players, but you have to be at least somewhat objective.  All of this “leave him alone hes going to shine I just know it” isn’t based on anything.  You really need to at least accept the possibility that when he plays poorly its not everyone else that is to blame, he has to at least be partially responsible for poor play.

      • Apr 2, 20131:54 pm
        by Reaction

        Reply

        Couldn’t agree more Huddy

      • Apr 2, 20131:55 pm
        by Scott Free

        Reply

        I just think he’s better suited to the 3rd guard in a solid 3 guard rotation for a few years.

      • Apr 2, 20132:17 pm
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        @ Huddy —– Ooops I forget to talk about Walker! Well, Walker wasn’t a full time point guard in his first year just like Knight (Knight still never been full time point guard). Now Walker is full time Point Guard and has good shooters around him. Mullens, Gordon and Henderson… and a good player in MKG

        • Apr 2, 20132:24 pm
          by Brandon Knight

          Reply

          ……and he plays 5 more minutes than Knight!!! 

          • Apr 2, 20132:45 pm
            by Huddy

            Walker averaged the same numbers as Knight in 5 less minutes a game last year.
             
            Mullens is a 38% fg shooter and averages 10 ppg, MKG averages 9 ppg and is a 20% 3pt shooter, Gordon averages 11 ppg…is this really the list of great scorers you think make Kemba walker look good?  None of those guys are really much better than Singler is at scoring, the only one who is would be Henderson and hes not as good as Monroe.  There is no way you really think the Bobcats have a good team that makes Walker look good…they are literally the worst team in the league.

        • Apr 2, 20132:41 pm
          by G

          Reply

          You are hilarious.
          Knight was the full-time PG until the Pistons traded for Calderon. So you’re wrong there…
          …and Kemba has good shooters? The Bobcats are last in the league in FG%. So wrong again….
           

          • Apr 2, 20133:04 pm
            by Brandon Knight

            @ G, stop acting like a smart ass. First, Knight was never a full time PG. Full time point guard means that he controls the ball all the time no matter who’s on the court. When Bynum, Stuckey and even Tay Prince played with him they controlled the ball more than he did.

            Bobcats shooters are mostly spot up shooters, here where you gain most of your assists from. Other than Singler, Detroit has none. Right? Stuckey and Bynum never shoot they drive and dribble. 

          • Apr 2, 20133:16 pm
            by G

            Most assists come from plays around the basket, then spot up jumpers. Chris Paul doesn’t get so many assists because Blake is knocking down threes. So Monroe, Drummond, Singler, Jerebko, and Prince are all better sources for assists than what Kemba Walker has.

            Second, Knight doesn’t dominate the ball as much as Kemba because Brandon has a serious problem with turnovers. By the way, Chris Paul and Knight had a similar USG rate until the Pistons got Calderon. Now Knight’s USG is in the Lawson/Rondo territory, and Kemba’s is a couple points higher (which is not that much, really).

             

        • Apr 2, 20132:43 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Haha! I just saw you listed “Gordon” as one of those “good shooters” around Kemba Walker. The hits keep on coming!

        • Apr 2, 20132:51 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Mullens shoots under 40%! 

    • Apr 2, 20131:54 pm
      by Jodi Jezz

      Reply

      I agree Knight didn’t have the ball in his hands, but Prince, Stuckey, and Bynum don’t suck…

      • Apr 2, 20132:06 pm
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        Well, These guys barley shoot the ball! Most of the time they dribble and shoot or drive the ball. They are not pure shooters.

  • Apr 2, 20132:04 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    First, Knight had 4.5 assists before switching. Not that bad! Second, Calderon benefited from playing with Knight who is a better shooter than Stuckey or Will. Third, Calderon is 10 years older and more experienced and you know what experience does! and last, Calderon assists are not that great he averaged 6.0 assists in March. You can see the affects of Knight on Calderon assists by checking the game log for both. Calderon gets a lot of assists when Knight plays well!

    • Apr 2, 20132:37 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      First how are 4.5 assists not that bad and 6 assists not that great?  In addition you are comparing Knight’s career assist numbers vs Jose in an off month.  With the Pistons as a whole it is closer to 7 per game and that is on a new team in a new system, btw only 4 players in the whole league average 8 assists or more a game so yes 7 is pretty good.  This is not to mention Knight assist numbers haven’t went up AT ALL since his Rookie year he isn’t getting better at passing the ball.
       
      Second Knight is not really a better shooter than Stuckey or Bynum.  Knight has a 40% FG average which is the same as Stuckey and considerably lower than Bynum.  If you are only considering his 3p% Knight shoots better, but only makes 1.5 a game…so how is he generating more assists for Calderon than Stuckey or Will would for him?
       
      Calderon doesn’t only get assists when Knight plays well.  he had 9 assists last night and Knight had 5 points, obviously if knight makes shots that will help Calderon’s numbers but I’ve already addressed how he doesn’t shoot any better than Stuckey or Bynum. 

      • Apr 2, 20133:20 pm
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        Wrong Wrong and Wrong. 

        - 4.5 assists from a young player and on a shitty team like Detroit is very respectable!!!!

        - Stop with Knight stats didn’t go up, yes it did!!!! Before Switching Knight averaged 14 points and 4.5 assists! (good numbers) for a young guy like Knight!

        - again again and again Stuckey and Bynum are not spot up shooters, they dribble and drive so you barley get any assists from them!

        Yes Calderon get more assists when Knight shoots well! 

        Games against Dallas and New York when knight put up 17 and 21 points Calderon combined for 23 assists

        Games against Washington when Knight put up 32 points Calderon got 18 assists

        • Apr 2, 20133:34 pm
          by Jodi Jezz

          Reply

          Preach!!.

        • Apr 2, 20133:36 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Settle down compadre. You said Knight’s 4.5 assists were good & Calderon’s 6.7 assists were bad. That’s just dumb.

          Knight’s AST/TO ratio this year is virtually identical to last year’s. He’s averaging 13.3 ppg this year vs. 12.8 last year. So his really haven’t gone up, maybe by 0.2 here or there. Nothing to indicate improvement.

          I mentioned this before, but plays at the rim generate more assists than spot up jumpers. Monroe is a better source of assists than Knight. OF COURSE if a player gets a hot hand then the PG will probably get more assists, but correlation does not imply causation (not that I’m expecting you to understand that). 

        • Apr 2, 20133:39 pm
          by Brandon Knight

          Reply

          ……………………..BTW Calderon is not consistent if you look at the Game Log you you don’t see assists like  8 assists,9 asts,7 asts ,8 asts ,7 asts ,6 asts ,9 assts ; assists around 6 or 7. He is not a Superior passer! Since joining the Pistons he only got four 10+ assists. Also there are two outliers there of 18 and 16 assists.  <——- These can raise your assist average big time in 27 games. So if you take out these two game he may end up with 5.5 assists a game! Which is not that good!

          • Apr 2, 20133:51 pm
            by Huddy

            You realize your examples of Knight scoring 32 points in a game and such are outliers and if you look at his game log you don’t see that often.  How many of his high scoring games do I get to remove when I calculate his ppg then?  Knight THIS YEAR has 2 10+ assist games.
             
            If you just think he has potential thats fine but at least stop acting like 40% fg shooting is good or like 4 assists and 3 TO a game are good.  His current numbers just really are not good..they just aren’t.  You can speculate about what his numbers would be if he played for the Lakers or how he compares to top point guards in their worst games vs his best games…but his averages are just not good.

          • Apr 2, 20133:53 pm
            by G

            That’s lthe nature of the game homey. You think Durant averages 28 a game by scoring 28, 30, 26, 25, 31? Nope, you’ll see some 16′s and 18′s along with some 35′s and 41′s.

            Running PG isn’t a simple equation you can plug into every game. Some games, Calderon has to take the shots. Other games he can be the helper. The point is when it averages out, he shoots the ball better, takes care of it better, and passes it better than Knight.

            You don’t call a guy with two 18-assist games in one season a “bad passer”.

        • Apr 2, 20133:40 pm
          by Huddy

          Reply

          Before switching?  I’m taking about him rookie year to this year, you can tell I was talking about that because I said “since his rookie year”.  So in 2011-2012 season Knight averaged 3.8 assists and 2.6 TOs, in 2012-2013 he averages 4 assists and 2.7 TOs…thats not improving chief.  4.5 assists per game is A. .5 higher than his actual assists per game and B. Pretty good for a PG coming of the bench…not starting especially when averaging almost 3 TOs a game.
           
          Even though you are wrong about where most assists come from…how do your points at all address the FACT that Knight is a 40% overall FG shooter, which is not good and therefore in not overly beneficial to Calderon.
          “Yes calderon get more assists when knight shoots well!”  thats funny because he usually doesn’t shoot well.  All you really are proving is that knight only had good shooting games about 3 times during that stretch and his PG benefited from him shooting well.  Even when Knight doesn’t shoot well, and you can look at his stats and see he doesn’t often score well, Calderon averages around 7 assists per game, which is good.  What is the sense in picking out 3 good games and ignoring the other 70 in the season?  Calderon plays well most of those other 70 even though Knight only did a handful of times.

          • Apr 2, 20133:49 pm
            by Brandon Knight

            Wow you still comparing assists to last year. Is there anything wrong with you??? Last year he was the PG most of the games, This year he played half SG and half PG. So you can’t really compare assists! You can’t compare CP3 assists to Kobe’s assists!
             

          • Apr 2, 20133:59 pm
            by Huddy

            Ok so you would like to know how many assists per game he averaged prior to moving to SG when Calderon arrived…that would be 4.3 and TOs 2.6…no improvement there, or do I not get to compare his numbers for games when he only played PG either?  Maybe we should just look at games when he played well..that would prove your point well probably.
             

        • Apr 2, 20133:46 pm
          by G

          Reply

          That 18 assist Washington game you mentioned? Knight scored 11 field goals, Monroe made 12.
          Last night Calderon had 9 assists despite Knight only making 2 shots (Monroe made 10).
          The Knicks game when Calderon had 16 assists, Knight made 6 shots, Maxiell made 7, Singler made 6 and Jerebko made 5. 
          Way to slide that Dallas game in there, Calderon only had 7 assists in that one (which isn’t that great, according to you).

          The main reason this PG debate is stupid is because Calderon DOESN’T TURN IT OVER. He averages a full turnover less than Knight while doing a better job of creating. 

          • Apr 2, 20133:58 pm
            by Brandon Knight

            ONE FULL TURNOVER- NO WAY! Wow I didn’t know Knight was that bad! lol. Cmo’n Teauge, Williams, Lin, Holliday, Lilard, Irving and Westbrook all average worst than him!!

          • Apr 2, 20134:02 pm
            by G

            Not at AST/TO ratio.

          • Apr 2, 20134:09 pm
            by G

            Calderon – tops in the league. Williams (I assume you mean Deron) is good at 2.69, Teague – steady at 2.43, Westbrook & Holiday are ok at 2.21. Lilliard is a ROOKIE and still decent at 2.20. Lin is a turnover machine & still better at 2.06.

            Irving is the only one with a sub-2/1 AST/TO ratio at 1.79 (still better than Knight), and Irving makes up for it by scoring 23 ppg!

  • Apr 2, 20133:02 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    I think this is one of the most overract basketball chats ….its entertaining tho

    Hate or Love Knight coming out of college Many,many,many mock drafts had him going in the top 5 … several teams decided on draft Size and that was the difference between us draft Knight vs Players like Byiombo and Vessley … So look at the older reports coming out of the Detroit…

    They were not even eyeing a PG… Walker and Jimmer never came up other than fan talk…so Knight was a steal at 8 … no matter what you think about him now …. 

    Kemba Walker Stat are Nice, but realize they are not much! better than Knight, and they play in two entirely different systems, bobcats offense ran through the guards, pistons us to run the offense through Greg,Prince then Knight …. Walker takes 15 plus shot attempts per game … Knight 11.5 …  not gonna defend Knight turnovers …. But once again Different system, Calderon since joining the Pistons ast have gone down …. Knight current shooting slump is more of a result of injury than lack of ability so let be fair …

    If we drafted faried we wouldn’t have Drummond! …you decide …

    Klay Thompson is very overrated, at least Knight defends and can create his own offense

    Leonard, is Great on the spurs…he is the 3/4 option… No real pressure to play outside of himself ….

    Other than Walker they all play for Better coaches, including walker they are all in a system that plays to their strength….

    As of know, I’d still roll with Knight …. Not because I think he is Soo much better than those guys, but because his ceiling is still higher than those guys 
     

    • Apr 2, 20133:15 pm
      by danny

      Reply

      you know what you are talking about rare around here.  bobcats run an up tempo offense which we dont and kemba has the ball in his hands at all time.  Oh well thought knight will turn it around give it some time. 

    • Apr 2, 20133:22 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      I agree

    • Apr 2, 20133:23 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      I to say “As of NOW, I’d still roll with Knight …. Not because I think he is Soo much better than those guys, but because his ceiling is still higher than those guys ”

    • Apr 2, 20133:25 pm
      by G

      Reply

      On the Spurs Leonard has to be the #2 guy on nights when Pop decides to sit his stars, which is often. Watch a game, he’s a good player. Popovich helped, but watch a game man.

      Last I check Knight wasn’t creating much of anything on offense.

      There’s a reason the Bobcats run their plays the the guards & the Pistons through their forwards – Knight wasn’t a good facilitator! They used Prince & Monroe a lot to set up the offense because Knight couldn’t handle it. 

      What are you TALKING about, they weren’t eyeing a PG? All the Pistons projected picks were either Biyombo or Kemba Walker. Everyone knew at that point that Stuckey couldn’t handle the PG spot, so the Pistons needs were PG and a “rim protecting presence”. Knight had a higher grade because he was younger, but they said Kemba projected better as a PG than Knight did.

      • Apr 3, 201310:31 am
        by danny

        Reply

        Ok leanard gets plays ran for him a couple times a game and the spurs rested their starters twice this year.  I know I live in SA.  When tim or tony are out then leonard moves up in the pecking order yes.  Do you realize they have one of if not the best franchise in the nba?  He has a great coach and HOF players on his team to school him.  We have a different approach where we are trying to run the offense through moose, it is totally differernt.  A lot of iso plays as well with our offense so not too many assists come.  Now with calderon we can run a different offense cause we can have shooters.
        When knight was running the team with bynum or stuckey on the wing he didnt have shooters so it is a bit different G.

        • Apr 3, 201312:41 pm
          by G

          Reply

          You say “our” and “we” a lot, but I’m not sure who you’re talking about. The Pistons? The Spurs? Some rec league team you’re on?

          Pop will sit one of his uninjured stars a couple of times a month. So?

          Yes, I am aware that the Spurs are one of the top 2 or 3 franchises in the NBA. Not sure what that has to do with Kawhi Leonard being a better player than Singler. The Pistons don’t exactly run plays for Singler, you know. They basically use him the same way the Spurs use Leonard, except Leonard is the better player. 

          Every team runs ISO, it’s the NBA. Good lord, you’d think every team except Detroit ran the Princeton Offense. The reason the Pistons run less ISO now is because Calderon is the PG instead of Knight, and because Tayshaun (who was a disaster in ISO, btw) got shipped out). Calderon is a better floor general than Knight and can be trusted with the ball more.

          Knight didn’t have shooters? He had Tayshaun and Daye, who were the team’s 2 best 3PT shooters. Who does Calderon have? The team’s best 3PT shooter is, let me check… Calderon. After him is Knight, who is better than neither Tay nor Daye. So how exactly does Calderon have better shooters to pass to?

           

        • Apr 3, 201312:50 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Oh, and flip Leonard & Singler around. How many plays would Detroit run for him if he was the starting SF here? I would guess 2nd most after Monroe. Singler won’t benefit very much from being coached by Popovich. Singler is who he is, and he strikes me as very self aware. Plus, his college coach was this guy named Mike Krzyzewski, who I’m pretty sure coached Singler up plenty. Pop might be able to squeeze a little extra out of him, but probably not much.

    • Apr 2, 20134:26 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I know I’ve covered this before, but in no possible way of looking at it was Knight a steal. In a redone draft he goes more or less at the same spot, so he was drafted correctly. He was projected to go higher despite having a rating in the 6-10 range on most draft big boards because there were some teams desperate for point guards. Those teams generally took big men that also had higher ratings than Knight over reaching for a point guard. Even if that wasn’t the case, and it is, him being projected higher in mock drafts doesn’t make him a steal. Draft steals are guys who out perform where they were taken, hence my point that he stays at more or less the same spot in a draft redo.

      • Apr 2, 20134:50 pm
        by G

        Reply

        I think the point was at the time he was considered a steal, since many projections had him going in the top 5 and as high as #2 overall.

        • Apr 3, 20139:10 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Who had him going over either Irving or Williams?

          The fact that some crackpot made a ludicrous mock draft is irrelevant. I could post a mock draft on the internet that has Kelly Olynyk going first overall. Stick to the reasonable, well-reputed ones.

          • Apr 3, 201312:58 pm
            by G

            Most mocks had Knight going 3rd or 5th. I can’t remember the mock I read that had him going 2nd, but it was one of the bigger ones (either ESPN or CBS). Towards the end of the process there were a lot of questions about Williams, whether he had a pro game or not. I remember there were a couple of projected scenarios where a team like the Kings or Bobcats traded up to snag Knight at #2, ahead of Utah (who needed a PG).

    • Apr 3, 20139:07 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Just because they weren’t expecting him there doesn’t make him a steal. It means there were teams that were expected to reach for a PG, namely Utah and Toronto.

      But read any draft recap, they’re basically unanimous. Detroit wasn’t expecting Knight to be available, but he went about where he should have gone. That’s what everyone was saying.

      Read any ranking of draft prospects (as opposed to mock drafts), Knight was always considered about the 8th best prospect in the draft.

    • Apr 3, 20139:13 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      If the Pistons drafted Faried, why wouldn’t they have Drummond?

      • Apr 3, 201310:10 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        I assume he was thinking we wouldn’t have drafted another big man, but Drummond would still be BPA and since he was projected to be so raw idk why we wouldn’t want a 3 man rotation with Monroe Drummond and Faried.  Greg and Drummond can both play center it would be one of the better front court rotations in the league.

        • Apr 3, 20131:00 pm
          by G

          Reply

          The Pistons probably wouldn’t have had the same pick, for one thing. I think Faried was worth about 3 more wins than Knight their rookie year.

          • Apr 3, 20132:02 pm
            by tarsier

            For what it’s worth, it would have taken a lot more wins to change their draft position much. Minnesota was one game ahead and Portland three games ahead. But they would need 6 more wins to catch Milwaukee.

            Also, Detroit’s stretch run of .500 basketball was really powered by some great cohesive play between Knight and Stuckey. Who knows if Monroe and Faried would have developed the same chemistry. 

  • Apr 2, 20133:53 pm
    by Reaction

    Reply

    Can we please ip ban moronic posters on this forum Dan and Patrick? I am really getting irritated reading stupid comments

    • Apr 2, 20134:05 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      hahahahah this is the funniest comment I’ve read on PistonsPowered!!

      Hey Moron – it’s very simple- Solution=Stop Reading!

      • Apr 2, 20134:28 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        Coming from the person responsible for more moronic comments than anyone else that posts here… It’s like the pot calling the kettle black, only the kettle is actually a blue bucket.

  • Apr 2, 20134:07 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    I actually said He is GREAT on the spurs….  so you could assume that I atleast think he is a Good player, but most night he is not the 2nd options… but if you want to go produce stats to show that when he is the 2nd option that his numbers jump, please do it….Now In that system SINGLER numbers would look like Leonard stats….

    We all know Knight can score, and get his own shot….before his injury after since the all-star game Knight was playing very good basketball you even admitted it ….. He was averaging 15ppg 44% and 40+%  for 3′s …. come on man now you watch a game…

    *Sign* have you watched the bobcats play? Serious? They play perimeter offense, who did Knight have to pass to on the perimter other than Singler?  Cmon G! …. walker has gordon, Henderson, Sessions …. Knight had Bynum, Stuckey, Singler … U decide ….

    They want Vessely ,Biyomobo and tristan Thompson … They were not thinking Kemba Walker… If Dumars wanted Walker he would have took Walker … had Knight went early than 8 dumars still drafting Kemba …. 

    • Apr 2, 20134:09 pm
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      Yeah tell em 

    • Apr 2, 20134:21 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Why does it matter who Knight has to pass to on the perimeter? This doesn’t make sense. We still have Monroe and Drummond, and passing to big men is the easiest way to jack up assists. That is because they shoot high percentages. Detroit shoots a much higher percentage than Charlotte, so this is a better place to get assists. That should help Knight in the can he play point guard discussion, not hurt him. Walker’s passing numbers are better because he’s a better passer.

      • Apr 2, 20138:34 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Dude… Open Floor Offense is easier to run. than Half court Offense … when I say passing to perimeter players,  im talking about players that can spread the floor…
         
        We are talking simple basketball knowledge …. you guys are soo worried about saying how bad Knight is, you refuse to listen to simple facts ….

        • Apr 2, 20139:33 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          No, it isn’t. Not if open floor offense is defined as perimeter oriented offense. Perimeter players make shots at an inferior rate to big men, so it hurts the ability of a point guard to get assists. This isn’t a difficult concept here. Higher shooting percentages lead to more assists, and Detroit is a better shooting team than Charlotte. This is extremely simple basketball stuff you are failing to understand.

      • Apr 3, 20133:35 pm
        by Scott Free

        Reply

        Oats, you’re being a little disingenuous.  Yes, big men have a higher field goal percentage, but when you figure in how many of those come from a). put-backs and b.) post play, I suspect you’d have to step back this assertion.

        • Apr 3, 201310:35 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          Most post shots are still assisted, and the pick and roll is the single easiest play to get assists on in basketball. So no, I’m not being disingenous.

          • Apr 4, 201312:57 am
            by Scott Free

            Yeah, in general.  But how often do you see Monroe actually score in the post without a bevvy of pivots?  And the Pistons might be the worst pick/roll team in the league (barring drummond/bynum)

          • Apr 4, 20138:40 am
            by G

            Over half Monroe’s shots taken at the rim are assisted & 37.7% from 3-9 ft are assisted, which is about 3 buckets a game. So 3 out of 6.2 FGM are assisted.

            Brandon Knight averages 4.9 shots per game, and less than 2 of them are assisted. So it’s not like moving Knight over to SG has been assist money for Calderon.

        • Apr 4, 20139:25 am
          by Scott Free

          Reply

          Have to ask, is less than 50% of shots leading with an assist supposed to be impressive?  I guess I need a comparison with other posting “centers,” otherwise this just feels like random numbers.  (actually this entire thread reads like that)

    • Apr 2, 20134:23 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Now you’re being dumb. Leonard is more athletic, plays better D and has a better shot than Singler. He’s a starting SF on a playoff team, there has been some discussion on this blog whether Singler should be starting over Middleton.

      Knight was NOT shooting 44% before his injury. He was closer to 41-42%, and he was more like 14.3 ppg. He could sometimes get his own shot, but it’s not like he was breaking people down every night. That was the other guy, what’s his name… IRVING.

      Don’t get sucked in by this other guy, a perimeter oriented offense ISN’T the best way to rack up assists, and the Charlotte Bobcats aren’t some haven for PG stat-padding. I can’t believe I have to explain this. PnR and feeding the post are the 2 easiest ways to rack up assists, and the Pistons are better in the post than Charlotte. By a LOT. 

      • Apr 2, 20138:49 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        my goodness… I say Singler was more athletic or better than Leonard …I said in hat system he could produce similar numbers … defense no …but rebounding, scoring, shooting, and ast YES! 

         I didn’t compare Knight to Irving, I said he can get his own shot and he can …and I also said after the all-star break before the injury Knight was playing well … You posted the Stats!!!…correcting me!!

        DUDE! When way the hell Calderon ast has gone down as a piston? But with the Raptors a perimeter team his ast were higher? Also, Bobcats play from behind more than any other team in the 4th qrt … So they do padd stats in garbage time ….

        Look I’m not defending Knight at all…. when he plays poor I say he’s playing poor, but I’m not going to ignore a system were I see all the players struggling…  

         

        • Apr 2, 20139:52 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          You do realize Toronto has several good pick and roll men. Amir Johnson, Ed Davis, and Jonas Valanciunas are all really good at it. None of those guys score as well over all as Monroe, but they are the kind of guys that help point guards get assists. Detroit has only had Monroe for most of the time Calderon has been here because Drummond has been out. Throw in the fact that Knight’s been out and Detroit’s perimeter players are lacking too, and it makes sense that his assists have dropped. But don’t think it’s just the perimeter players, Detroit has also had fewer pick and roll guys than Toronto had while he was there.
           
          Charlotte meanwhile has big men that even stink in the pick and roll. They give point guards no help at all. Again, they shoot worse from the field from Detroit. They are not inflating Walker’s numbers at all.

        • Apr 3, 20138:23 am
          by G

          Reply

          @ FRANK – you were saying if Singler played in San Antonio he’d get the same numbers that Leonard gets. Except Leonard has a better shot. He rebounds better. He gets more steals. He shoots FTs better. THIS IS A DUMB ARGUMENT.

          You weren’t very clear about what stretch of time you were talking about with Knight. So AFTER the All Star Break but BEFORE his injury… THAT WAS 2 GAMES! 2 lousy games, and one of them was vs. Charlotte. If you were extrapolating 2 games over the course of a season, that’s INSANE. If you just meant to include Knight’s entire season up to the injury (which would make more sense), then I was right and excuse me for getting in your way with things like FACTS.

          If the Bobcats “pad the stats” in the 4th quarter, you must be suggesting they shoot WORSE in the first 3 quarters, which would make it harder for Kemba to rack up assists. I can’t believe you’re still arguing that playing in Charlotte is somehow making Kemba Walker look better than he is.

          • Apr 3, 20139:18 am
            by tarsier

            Well, to be fair, playing on a bad team can help bulk stats even if it tends to hurt efficiency.

          • Apr 3, 201310:45 am
            by G

            You can pad stats if you lose a lot of games. The Pistons have lost 50 so far, the Bobcats have lost 57. That’s not that big a difference. And it’s not like they’re going to suddenly start shooting the lights out after they get behind in a game.

            Oh, and they don’t play a faster pace than the Pistons, like some here have claimed. Both teams average 81 FGA per game. The Pistons make about 2 more shots per game than Charlotte does. Pace has f– all to do with it.

            Last thing (because this is a STUPID argument, not blaming you tarsier): Charlotte has the WORST assisted FG% in the league. This should not be surprising, since they have the worst FG% in the league also, but for those claiming Charlotte’s style of play or whatever make it easier for Kemba Walker to pick up assists… NO. They’re also not that perimeter oriented (despite what some others have claimed), shooting fewer 3′s per game than Detroit. You know what helps rack up assists? Playing with good players. Whether they’re shooting 3′s, layups, or elbow jumpers, it’s better to have accurate shooters than a particular system.

    • Apr 3, 20139:16 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Why are you selecting the tiny set of games after the all-star break and before the injury? I understand before the injury, that affects his play. But the all-star game is probably pretty irrelevant. Putting together a halfway decent stretch in the midst of a very underwhelming season just doesn’t mean all that much.

  • Apr 2, 20134:08 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    @ G. The Assist/Turnover ratio helped us so much that we are about to reach the finals. Right? 

    • Apr 2, 20134:12 pm
      by G

      Reply

      What kind of argument is that? “He’s a good player but we should dump him because he’s not taking us to the finals.”

      That may be the dumbest thing you’ve said on this post, and that’s saying something. 

      • Apr 2, 20134:15 pm
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        Wow you didn’t get, well ok! I was being sarcastic! What I meant by that comment is that the TO/Assist ratio stat didn’t help us. We are worse dude! 

        • Apr 2, 20134:24 pm
          by G

          Reply

          We are worse because we turn it over less? Ok, THAT’S the dumbest thing you’ve said today.

          • Apr 2, 20134:31 pm
            by Nick

            LMAO

          • Apr 2, 20134:33 pm
            by Brandon Knight

            lol you still didn’t get it. Stats don’t show everything, the addition of Calderon plus (Assist/TO) package included didn’t help the Pistons. Period! 
            Yeah looking at stats would say that it should
            but didn’t help the Pistons.

            Maybe because of his style of play
            Maybe because he is slow
            Maybe because he is bad on defense
            Maybe because he doesn’t create fouls
            Maybe because he doesn’t drive
            Maybe because he is old
            Maybe because he is bald
            Maybe because he is white
            Maybe because …………. Who knows. We don’t need him!
             

          • Apr 2, 20134:48 pm
            by G

            YOU still don’t get it – Brandon Knight is a disaster at PG. I’d rather have the better player on the court, and Calderon is the better player.

            You’re assuming that Calderon is the reason the Pistons went in the tank, which is also stupid. You realize that Drummond missed almost EVERY GAME in that stretch, Knight got injured (and while Knight is sometimes limited at SG, Stuckey is abominable), and the Pistons were forced to start Singler at SF and play Stuckey significant minutes there. 

          • Apr 3, 20133:46 pm
            by Scott Free

            I agree with a lot of your points G, but lets not kid ourselves, Drummond was gone for a significant stretch of Knight’s starting PG days as well.  If his absence explains the recent slide since acquiring Calderone, then it should also count for the time he missed with Knight.  

            Also, its a little disingenuous for you to simultaneously argue against Knight’s effectiveness, yet claim his absence as a reason for the recent losses.

            Knight might be a good lateral defender at point guard (all star game not withstanding), but he’s getting beaten up by the larger shooting guards… Calderone on the other hand, can’t defend his native position.  The pairing has made for one of the WORST backcourt defenses in the league.

            And lets not kid ourselves, a reliable 16 points, 7 or so rebounds, and 1 steal Tay put up might not have wow’ed us, but on a team as streaky as the Pistons, that consistent effort (without ceding much on defense) provided a buffer for the Piston’s spasmodic fluctuations of effort.

          • Apr 3, 20134:44 pm
            by G

            Drummond was averaging 20 min a game while Knight was the starting PG, what missing time are you talking about?

            I’m arguing against Knight’s effectiveness as a PG. I said he’s sometimes LIMITED as a SG, but still a better option than Stuckey. Cut it any way you like, Knight is probably the 3rd or 4th best offensive option on this team & their best defender at the guard position. He hasn’t been great, but they missed him.

            How is this defensive problem any different than when Knight & Singler were the #1 & 2 guards? Knight did OK on the PG, Singler got smoked by the SG. Now Knight does a passable job at SG & Jose gets smoked. So?

            What Tay was providing was more like 12 ppg & 5 rpg and some passable D at the wing, but definitely preferable to Singler & Stuckey at the same spot. Which is basically what I said.

          • Apr 4, 20139:37 am
            by Scott Free

            Wow, it felt like Drummond’s been out way longer than that.  

            Also how can you argue against Knights effectiveness at PG, when he’s the only person on our team capable of defending the position?  Likewise, how can you defend him as a ‘somewhat limited’ SG, when he can’t defend the 2 without growing and he’s played absolutely TERRIBLE since switching to that position?  I know you can say “small, largely injured sample size with early promise,” but you can say that about almost any stretch in that kids career.

        • Apr 3, 20139:56 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          The change was not Knight for Calderon. It was Prince + Drummond’s health + Knight’s health + any remaining sliver of a chance of getting to the playoffs this year (and the accompanying motivation/effort) for Calderon.

          And the Pistons got worse for it?!?! You don’t say?!?!

  • Apr 2, 20134:47 pm
    by hoophabit

    Reply

    Guys, can’t we all play nice!?  Knight hasn’t shown himself to be a complete bust by any means, but neither has he shown himself to be clearly an all star caliber guard.  It doesn’t mean he can’t ever achieve this, but it certainly increases the likelihood that he never will.  Knight has shown progress in my opinion.  Any player will benefit if the quality of the overall team is improved.  Regardless of what we think, the Pistons will give Knight a real good look because of where they drafted him.  I guess we’ll see what’s in store.  His superlative work ethic has to be considered a plus.  I’m rooting for him because I’m a Pistons fan.  ;-)

    • Apr 2, 20135:39 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Knight’s defense has progressed, but not so much on offense. His points and assists went up a bit, but his turnovers also went up enough to keep his lousy assist to turnover ratio identical. The team also went from playing him with Stuckey to pairing him with Singler, so his usage went up a bit too. He played point guard exactly the same as rookie Brandon Knight would have if his usage rate went up a bit. That isn’t progress. It’s also hard to call what he’s done at shooting guard progress, it looks pretty much the same to me. So Brandon Knight the player has progressed thanks to defense, but Brandon Knight the guy who runs the offense didn’t.
       
      By the way, everyone roots for Knight. He’s a tough kid and seems to have his head on straight. As Pistons fans it’s also in our best interest to root for Pistons players. I want Knight to succeed, I really do. I don’t see him turning it around at the point though, so I’d rather focus him either on playing the 2 or becoming a 6th man combo guard. Both of those roles seem to fit his skill set better than point guard.

      • Apr 3, 20138:26 am
        by G

        Reply

        ^Agree. I think Knight’s lack of progress offensively has a lot to do with him making an effort to play PG. He’s clearly not a PG, and I think we will see significant progress next year with him at SG full-time.

  • Apr 2, 20138:25 pm
    by robertbayer

    Reply

    It is more than fair to knock Knight on his NBA game. Just my opinion but he needed a great head coach to make up for the fact he was and is so young and experienced. Instead, he got a horrible head coach in Lawrence Frank.  I see nothing but dedication on Knight’s part. I see a head coach who clearly makes a lot of bad decisions during games. I see a head coach who has not really upped anyone’s game in Detroit. I see a head coach who cannot even nail down a back up position at any position, let alone a starter. We have seen flashes of greatness from Knight but it ends up being very eratic, party because he is so young and unschooled but maninly it is due the very chaotic, constant changing system of Lawrence Frank. This is why Joe Dumars and Tom Gores made a major error in getting Frank here. Frank had young players in New Jersey too and he absolutely tanked on that one. Hire a bad coach and you are destroying the chance to develop a player. Hire a series a bad coaches (Curry, Kuester, Frank, ..) and you are doing some major damage to the Piston franchise and to a player’s career (Compare Amir Johnson, Aaron Afflalo to how they played after they were traded, to Stuckey’s and Knight’s who are still in Piston Coach Hell.  It is so difficult to get a great coach but until you do, your organization is doomed to failure. With all my heart as a Piston fan, I want a far better head coach than Lawrence Frank.  

    • Apr 2, 201310:10 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Frank definitely isn’t doing Knight that many favors with the way he juggles guys. He’s clearly not a good coach. That doesn’t excuse Knight’s crappy shooting numbers, or his tendency to turn the ball over do bad ball handling. It’s also not like the lineups around the other point guards have been that much more stable. Bad teams have a tendency to juggle guys around because they are desperate to find something that works. This is hardly an unusual situation that Knight is in. If Knight needed a great coach to become good then he just isn’t a very good player.
       
      Here’s something some basketball experts like to say. Whatever your opinion of your coach, regress it strongly to the mean. Bad coaches are rarely as bad as fans think, and good coaches are rarely as good. Don’t get me wrong, Frank clearly counts as a bad coach. It’s just that bad coaches don’t really kill teams the way most fans seem to think they do because coaches don’t have as much impact as most fans think.
       
      By the way, Amir has not been competently coached in his career yet. I doubt him or Afflalo would be significantly different players if they stayed in Detroit and had their play time increase to the point it has since leaving. That just feels like it’s way more a problem with Dumars not recognizing the talent he had in house than with the coaching.

  • Apr 3, 20133:14 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    “You can pad stats if you lose a lot of games. The Pistons have lost 50 so far, the Bobcats have lost 57. That’s not that big a difference. And it’s not like they’re going to suddenly start shooting the lights out after they get behind in a game.”

    1. its not just about losing games, it the margin of points you lose by to determine padding stats… if your down 15-20pts with 2 minutes left and you score 4 points and 2 ast … who gives a damn! …verse being down 6-10 pts ..huge difference…  
    “”Oh, and they don’t play a faster pace than the Pistons, like some here have claimed. Both teams average 81 FGA per game. The Pistons make about 2 more shots per game than Charlotte does. Pace has f– all to do with it.”"

    2. They play through there GUARDS!, and From the Perimeter with Mullens, 81 shots can come in a different ways….

    EXAMPLE: their top 5 scorers they take 15.1 3 pts attempts per-game …. 3.9 from Kemba….

    Calderon BEFORE WITH Knight at PG

    The top 5 scorer….took 9 …. 4.4 from knight…..

    That a extreme difference in style of play do you agree?

    With Knight at PG… the top Scorers … were Monroe,Prince … THEN Stuckey and Bynum OFF the Bench (who Knight Rarely played with, when he did play PG with Stuckey and or Bynum on the floor at the same time… they are 29% 3 point shooters

    Walker often played with his top scorers…. Henderson a 37% 3 point shooter, and Gordon a 39% 3 point shooter….

    and if you want to sub Singler in for Stuckey or Bynum its fine because it barely changes…

    “”Last thing (because this is a STUPID argument, not blaming you tarsier): Charlotte has the WORST assisted FG% in the league. This should not be surprising, since they have the worst FG% in the league also, but for those claiming Charlotte’s style of play or whatever make it easier for Kemba Walker to pick up assists… NO. They’re also not that perimeter oriented (despite what some others have claimed), shooting fewer 3?s per game than Detroit. You know what helps rack up assists? Playing with good players. Whether they’re shooting 3?s, layups, or elbow jumpers, it’s better to have accurate shooters than a particular system.”"

    Stats are soo mis-Leading…but let me help you… (Based off of current stats) … I’ll dig back further later..if I have too

    The bobcats TOP 6 scorers , Most game played, and Minute players
    Average 78.9ppg
    Average 67.6 Shot Attempts per game

    the pistons TOP 6 scorer, Most games played, and Minute Players (Before Calderon)
    Average 70.3 ppg
    Average 61.3 shoot attempts

    Pistons shoot 43.7% vs the bobcats 42.3% … However that is boosted by Greg 48% from the field….

    IF you ROUND UP!….5 of the 6 bobcat top scorers are average atleast 11 shot attempts per-game …4 of which are Guards……

    the Pistons have 3 player will 11 or more shot attempts among their top 6 scorer… only one Guard ‘Knight 11.6″ “ Prince who averaged 10.8″ & ” Greg with 13.0″ …. For the Record 
    Greg would be behind Kemba he averages 15.1 in shot attempts, Knight would be Behind Henderson who average 12 in shot attempts, and Prince would be behind Sessions who averages 11.1 in shot attempts…..

    • Apr 3, 20133:36 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      What is the fascination with guards? Again, guards are not helping get assists. Made shots help get assists. Charlotte makes fewer shots.
       
      Detroit takes more 3s and hits them at a higher percentage than Charlotte. I don’t get what you are arguing there.
       
      What’s more, the fact that 4 of the Bobcats 6 leading scorers hurts your argument because of how rotations work. There is no way the other 3 get all of their time on the court with Walker, a substantial portion of the minutes for those guys is going to be with Walker on the bench. In fact, one of them is Ramon Sessions who is on the court pretty much the entire time Walker is on the bench because he’s the team’s backup point guard. He does get a few minutes at the 2, but that just pushes some minutes that either Henderson or Gordon plays to not be with Walker. Ben Gordon plays about half his time with Sessions and not with Walker. This really isn’t that different of a situation going on here as far as who he plays with. Even if it was, it wouldn’t matter. Made shots from anywhere on the court is how you get assists, and Detroit makes more shots than Charlotte.

      • Apr 3, 20133:48 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        4 of 6 leading scorers are guards*

    • Apr 3, 20134:47 pm
      by G

      Reply

      @ FRANK – English please, if you want me to respond.

      • Apr 3, 20135:21 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        First and foremost, that response is hilarious. I tried to decipher it as best as I could. I don’t know exactly what he’s trying to argue. I actually was wondering if he thought Charlotte played a 4 guard offense or something. His argument seems to revolve around the fact that Charlotte’s guards score more than their big men, and their one big man who does score shoots 3s. I’m still unclear on why that is supposed to matter when they don’t shoot them that well, and not all of those 3 point attempts those guys take are with Walker even in the game.

  • Apr 3, 20133:22 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    That difference between watching stats and watching games…smh… NEXT!!!!

    • Apr 3, 20134:03 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Do you really watch Charlotte that much? If so, stop it. They suck. I live close enough to them that local channels sometimes carry their games, so I’ve seen more of them play than I should. They aren’t some free wheeling offense that pads stats.
       
      Walker primarily plays with Henderson, MKG, Biyombo, and Mullens. Yeah, Mullens takes 3s, but MKG pretty much never does. Gordon plays half his time with Sessions at the point, and half the time with Walker. When Sessions plays with Walker he runs the offense at least half the time, and Walker spends a sizable portion of that time running around off screens and basically playing shooting guard. That’s about 15 minutes a game he plays with Sessions, and it’s not that far off from Knight playing off ball with Prince or Monroe running things.
       
      The situation in Charlotte doesn’t make it easier to get assists. Even if he is padding his stats in the 4th quarter, he has to deal with 3 quarters of significantly worse play from his team mates so it should even out. Being perimeter oriented doesn’t help get assists, having team mates make shots does. Charlotte is bad at making shots. It is harder to get assists in Charlotte because they are less likely to convert that shot after the pass. It really is that simple.

    • Apr 4, 20138:21 am
      by G

      Reply

      This is so stupid, I can’t believe this argument is still going on. We’re talking about THE CHARLOTTE BOBCATS. The WORST OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE. I feel like I need to explain this assists-thing one more time. I’ll be sure to use small words… 
      a) Assists come more easily from shots close to the basket because it’s easier to make close shots
      b) Teams with better offensive players get more assists than teams with worse offensive players
      c) The Bobcats have bad offensive players

      How about some more FACTS, to get in the way of your vague impressions? Check the shot locations & Assisted% numbers for CHA.
      At Rim – 27 attempts per game, 16 made, 49.5 AST% (the AST% is low, but they’re terrible at converting at the rim)
      3-9 ft – 8 attempts, 3 made,  47.4 AST% (attempts & AST% are average)
      10-15 ft – 7 attempts, 3 made, 34.8 AST% (pretty low AST%)
      16-23 ft – 20 attempts, 7 made, 57.3 AST% (again, pretty low AST%)
      THREES – 17 attempts, 6 made, 84 AST% (pretty low attempts, the AST% is about league average. Most threes are catch & shoot)
      So that’s about 8 assists coming off of AT RIM, 1.4 for 3-9 ft, 1 for 10-15 ft, 4 for 16-23 ft, and 5 for threes. That’s 19.4 assists in total, half coming from close range shots & half coming from perimeter shots. 
      Compare to Detroit:
      At Rim – 30 FGA, 17 FGM, 51 AST%
      3-9 ft – 10 FGA, 4 FGM, 38.6 AST%
      10-15 ft – 4.4 FGA, 1.7 FGM, 45 AST%
      16-23 ft – 16 FGA, 6 FGM, 61 AST%
      THREES – 17.5 FGA, 6 FGM, 91 AST%
      I make that about 9 assists coming from At Rim shots, 1.5 from 3-9 ft, about 1 from 10-15 ft, 3.7 from 16-23 ft, and 5.5 from threes. That’s 20.7 assists, half coming from close range, half coming from the perimeter. Detroit as a team gets more assists than Charlotte, they have a higher AST%, and Detroit takes more threes.

      Also, take a look at the top 10 teams in AST%. The top team in AST% is Atlanta, who takes a lot of threes. The #2 team is Chicago, who doesn’t take a lot of threes (fewer than Detroit, actually). Minnesota is #6 in AST% despite taking threes at the lowest rate in the league.

      • Apr 4, 20138:54 am
        by Dan Feldman

        Reply

        • Walker’s floormates shoot 43 percent.
        • Knight’s floormates shoot  45 percent.
        • Apr 4, 20139:25 am
          by G

          Reply

          I know! Every conclusion that guy made is wrong!

  • Apr 3, 201310:43 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    You are missing my point… Clearly… And its fine… Why would I be offended … IYou are missed..sorry for my poor delivery…The idea that they play at the same pace….as the pistons is silly… When teams play through guards they normally play at faster pace … not saying its better … But if you watch the games you can see the difference …. Guard friendly system, normally boost their indiviuals stats, but put them in a slower half court offense … they struggle…

    I apologize for rushing through and not making sense… Bobcats Top 6 Scorers Average 78.6ppg and 67.6 shot attempts
    Pistons top 6 scorers average 70.3 ppg and 61.3 ….

    So that proves they play at a faster pace….

    And I watch all basketball…  

    • Apr 4, 201312:01 am
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      • Bobcats’ pace when Walker plays: 93.96
      • Pistons’ pace when Knight plays: 93.03
    • Apr 4, 20138:29 am
      by G

      Reply

      Maybe you watch, but you clearly don’t pay attention or your observations aren’t accurate, which is why we have stats. The fact is the Pistons as a TEAM get more assists per game than Charlotte does, so all your “pace” and “perimeter game vs. post game” arguments mean squat. 

      • Apr 4, 20139:38 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        “so all your “pace” and “perimeter game vs. post game” arguments mean squat”

        Your Arguement has changed… “Now you’re talking about TEAM AST”

        Original it was Booasting about Kemba Walker Numbers…i said its the system… Faster Pace playing through the guard from the perimeter….rather than half-court offense sets (How you can argue against that i dont know)

        I never said the Bobcats offense was better or worse, I said it Fit Kemba Walkers skill set… Pushing the ball….scoring.. finding shooters…..

        TEAM AST… Pistons average 21 ast, Bobcats 19…

        Now when you consider this… Bobcats top 3 BIGs Mullens, Roberts and Byimobo average a combined 4.0 ast… Greg averages 3.5 ast…. Bobcats the ball is dominated by Walker…

        Calderon only played the last 28 games with the Pistons… averaging close to 7 ast per game…. Before Calderon , Knight led the team averaging 4. blah,blah,blah ast…. , the offense Ran through Prince as the facilitor in the half-court offense….

        And Before you say it, Im not saying Knight can handle the role of PG in this or any current half court system….I’ve said it almost since the start of the season, that Knight does not fit Franks offense, no one does, only players that production when up compared to last year was Bynum and Charlie V. However, that a difference story.

        I then followed it up by sharing that the Bobcat top 5 top scorers….Take More 3 attempts than our top 5 scorers

        I then posted stats showing that the Top 6 players on the Bobcats, score more and get more shot attempts up than the Pistons Top 6 players.

        SO Please just stop it….. I’ve destoryed your arguement….

        My point is put Knight in a system similar to Walker, his production offensively would look like Walkers…Knight TO’s may or may not be the same, but he’s a better shooter than Kemba… so you can argue that he’d score more…

        @ Dan i hear you and see your point…. But Walker is main guy, the offense was built around him almost since the end of last season. In Detroit , we still dont know that hell is going on with the vision for this team. Theres a difference

        • Apr 4, 201311:44 am
          by G

          Reply

          How exactly is Knight a better shooter than Kemba? Knight shoots the 3 better, but is worse in total FG% and FT%. Also, there is LESS TALENT around Kemba than there is around Knight, believe it or not. So how exactly would putting Knight on a team where the next best player is… Gerald Henderson I guess… how would that help Knight?

  • Apr 4, 20139:41 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    “”"TEAM AST… Pistons average 21 ast, Bobcats 19…
    Now when you consider this… Bobcats top 3 BIGs Mullens, Roberts and Byimobo average a combined 4.0 ast… Greg averages 3.5 ast…. Bobcats the ball is dominated by Walker…
    Calderon only played the last 28 games with the Pistons… averaging close to 7 ast per game…. Before Calderon , Knight led the team averaging 4. blah,blah,blah ast…. , the offense Ran through Prince as the facilitor in the half-court offense….”"

    So TEAM “AST” IN THISE CASE IS MISLEADING!

    • Apr 4, 201311:08 am
      by G

      Reply

      It means that your assertion that the Bobcats’ system produces more opportunity for assists is wrong. There are more assists to be had in the Pistons’ offense, largely because they shoot better. 

      The Pistons have a higher AST% than Charlotte. That means in addition to MAKING more shots, a higher percentage of those makes come from assists. 

      Brandon Knight actually has a higher usage rate than Calderon does. It’s higher than Stuckey’s, MUCH higher than Prince’s, and only slightly lower than Monroe’s (Knight’s is at 22.1, Monroe’s 23.7, Calderon’s is 16.7). And before Calderon came, Knight’s usage rate was even higher. 

      They tried to run the offense primarily through Knight, except he was bad at it. They started running it more through Monroe early on, in part because he’s a better passer than Knight is. They BARELY ran it through Tay, certainly not more than Knight. Still, the advantages of running plays through Prince were a) Prince took care of the ball better than Knight, and b) he has better court vision.

    • Apr 4, 201311:18 am
      by G

      Reply

      Here’s where we get to the part that every conclusion you’ve made is wrong:
      1) There are less assists to be had in Charlotte’s offense than in Detroit’s offense
      2) Both teams play at about the same pace
      3) Detroit actually takes more spot up jumpers than Charlotte does & converts them at a better rate
      4) A higher percentage of Detroit’s made shots come from assists
      6) Knight has had every opportunity to earn the PG job. He’s just not a good facilitator. He turns it over too much. He’s not a good passer (even Stuckey is better).
      7) Despite playing on a team that shoots poorly and has a lower percentage of made shots coming from assists, Kemba Walker averages more assists and fewer turnovers than Knight.

      Conclusion – Kemba Walker is a better PG. It’s Knight’s fault that he doesn’t get more assists. Those assists are there to be had, he just lacks the ability to get them. 

  • Apr 4, 201312:48 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    “”Conclusion – Kemba Walker is a better PG. It’s Knight’s fault that he doesn’t get more assists. Those assists are there to be had, he just lacks the ability to get them.”"

    LOL! Okay… You’re Stubborn not Stupid….. 

    So even though I showed you WHERE they generate their offense and HOW they generate their offense…and Who generates their offense and WHY…and Even WHEN they generate their offense… your mind is made up….

    Even tho Walker CLEARLY plays more minutes than Knight, Shoots more than Knight, is a Offense designed for his skill-set…. They have similar TS% … You telling me… that Knight could not put up similar offensive stats if given the same opportunity in that system?

    Cmon G…is that what you are telling me?

    • Apr 4, 20131:42 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Uh, yes. Because Knight’s problem is he isn’t a good ball handler and doesn’t see the floor well. This was the case in HS, college, and now. If the minutes thing is an issue for you, compare their per 36 minutes numbers. Walker still would get fewer turnovers and more assists, and he scores more. 

      Also, compare Charlotte’s AST% by shot location to Detroit’s. Charlotte’s top scorers not named Kemba are Henderson, Sessions, Gordon and Mullens. Henderson has pretty low AST% numbers except for threes, but he only makes 0.5 of those a game. Sessions’ AST% are all really low, and Gordon’s are even lower. Mullens is the only one with a majority of his AS% coming at higher than league average. About 3 of his makes per game come from assists. Walker doesn’t play much with Sessions or Gordon though. 

      Detroit’s top 4 scorers not named Knight are Monroe, (skipping Calderon) Prince, Stuckey, and Bynum. Monroe’s AST% hangs around league average, but put his numbers together and about 3 of his makes per game come from assists. Prince has pretty high AST% numbers with Detroit, and while Stuckey’s and Bynum’s are low (really low in Bynum’s case), Stuckey came off the bench when Knight was PG and Bynum never plays with Knight. EVER

      Comparing the top 4 other scorers from both teams is stupid when they rarely play together.

    • Apr 4, 20132:12 pm
      by G

      Reply

      You also seem to be under the impression that Charlotte is some high-flying, 3-pt jacking team that provides all sorts of opportunities for Walker to get assists. This is not true.

      The Pistons shoot more threes than the Bobcats. They also both play at a similar pace. And Charlotte’s top 4 scorers don’t share the court at the same time, you know, because they’re all guards.

      You don’t have to be a perimeter team to rack up assists. Chicago and Minnesota both take few threes but have high assist rates.

      I’m stubborn because the facts are on my side and I make better conclusions than you.

       

  • Apr 10, 201312:21 am
    by Sulema Byous

    Reply

    Once I originally commented I clicked the -Notify me when new feedback are added- checkbox and now every time a remark is added I get 4 emails with the same comment. Is there any approach you can take away me from that service? Thanks!

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