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Detroit Pistons #DraftDreams: Trey Burke

Welcome to the fourth annual Detroit Pistons #DraftDreams series (see years 1, 2 and 3 in the archives). Discuss Draft Dreams on Twitter using the #DraftDreams hashtag. I’m getting a bit of a late start, but thanks to some help this year (DraftDreams had previously been a solo effort) from Brady Fredericksen,  Jameson Draper and Dan Feldman, we should be able to get through a collection of first and second round prospects over the next few weeks while we try to figure out who is going to coach this soon-to-be future playoff team (seriously you guys … don’t you DARE make Joe Dumars fire another coach … he’ll totally do it). 

The annual disclaimer — I don’t fancy myself a college basketball expert. In fact, it’s kind of torture to watch referees call a charge whenever someone falls down (someone needs to get Stern to fix flopping in the college game), less talented players (cough * Aaron Craft * cough) become stars because they are great at clutching and grabbing more physically gifted players to slow them down and rules designed to encourage players to inefficiently shoot contested long twos. I’m off on a tangent again. Anyway, the college game is inherently frustrating to me, but I still love it, I still watch it and I’ve made a bit of a pattern of starting this series off each year with my favorite player in the draft (DeMarcus Cousins, Darius Morris and Draymond Green in the previous three years). This year, that player is unquestionably Trey Burke, and that’s coming from someone whose allegiances primarily are in East Lansing.

Info

  • Measurables: 6-foot-0, 190 pounds, sophomore point GOD from Michigan
  • Key Stats: 18.6 points, 6.7 assists, 1.6 steals per game; shot 46 percent from the field and 38 percent from 3-point range; Naismith Player of the Year
  • Projected: Top 10
  • Hickory High similarity score

Random Fact

During his freshman season, Burke had just had back-to-back solid if unspectacular games against known basketball powerhouses Towson and Western Illinois. This caused baseball Hall of Fame voter, worst blog in America pontificator and local radio conch-haver Pat Caputo to suggest on the air that (paraphrasing slightly) Burke was the next Chris Paul.

It was typical Caputoperbole that I should’ve ignored, but it struck me as insanely irritating at the time. Paul is probably the best point guard since Magic Johnson and, if injuries/the curse of Donald Sterling don’t interrupt his career, he’s going to be one of the all-time greats. Comparing a relatively under-recruited college player to Paul after a couple of games against irrelevant competition is reckless, even for a guy who once called the Detroit Tigers’ best offensive player their biggest offensive problem. It was a disservice to Burke, a young player trying to carve out his own identity at a basketball program in desperate need of a ‘savior’ type of player, to saddle him with those types of expectations so early. Comparisons like that unfairly ratchet up pressure on young players, particularly at a high profile school like Michigan. It also did Paul a disservice. Because Paul toiled away in New Orleans much of his career, his brilliance is still a bit under-appreciated by the masses. Suggesting some unproven, relatively unknown player in college is capable of being at his level was an insult to Paul and all of his accomplishments. Media types do that sort of star-to-random player comparison all the time and it never ceases to be infuriating — it makes it seem like guys who have one in a million talent have skillsets that can easily be replicated.

It’s weird the memories that cloud judgments. I carried that dumb, throwaway segment on a radio station I only listen to for unintentional comedic purposes from a host whose opinions I loathe with me for a long time. As Burke continuously improved, but as he single-handedly, at times, dragged Michigan back to relevance, I was slow to embrace it simply because of that stupid soundbite I caught in passing years ago. I could spend this space extolling Burke’s many virtues, talking about how much fun he has been to watch the past two seasons and crediting him for not only making Michigan basketball important again but also re-igniting the Michigan-Michigan State basketball rivalry and making it the best in the country. But it’s easier to just simply say the greatest compliment I can pay to Burke is that he made Pat Caputo kind of right, or at the very least not completely nonsensical. I’m not sure anything he accomplished on the court is more remarkable than that.

Fits with the Pistons because …

The Pistons like Jose Calderon, and that’s fine. We know what Calderon is. Calderon is a good shooter, he takes good care of the ball and he’s a pass-first player who is perfect for a finishing machine like Andre Drummond. What we also know about Calderon is that he’s old. Even if the Pistons retain Calderon, they need to be thinking longer term at the point guard position than the guy who will play that spot for the next year or two. Burke is the best point guard option in this draft.

Burke and Paul had fairly similar college stats, although Paul shot better from 3-point range. Their games offensively are not completely similar, but the comparison between the two comes from their passing ability. Burke is a bit more of a shoot-first player than Paul, but that was also out of necessity. He was Michigan’s best scorer as well as distributor. On a NBA team like the Pistons with (hopefully) more offensive options who can create their own shot, I suspect we’ll see even more of Burke’s passing ability shine as a pro.

Burke and Paul have similar statures. Both are insanely quick though not the super athletic new-breed type of point guard who will go dunk on people. And both have incredible vision. Like Paul, Burke has shown an ability to see a play before it develops and to find teammates with passes that few other players could even envision, let alone make. On a team with a big as active as Drummond, pairing him with a passer like Burke would pay immediate dividends, even if Burke starts out as an understudy to Calderon.

Realistically, he won’t be as good as Paul, but the comparisons are no longer completely ridiculous, and that’s amazing progress for Burke. If he looks more like Ty Lawson than Paul as a pro, that’s still worth a lottery pick.

Doesn’t fit with the Pistons because …

The Pistons have needs at every position, but if Calderon is retained, they are thinnest at the wing spots. Brandon Knight, Rodney Stuckey, Kyle Singler and Jonas Jerebko are all capable of playing on the wings, but all can most aptly be described as ‘best suited for a reserve role’ (I also might describe Stuckey as ‘better suited for any roster except this one,’ but I digress). Assuming Calderon is retained, assuming Stuckey might be traded and assuming Knight is still around, adding Burke to the guard rotation would give the Pistons a small three-guard rotation. On top of that, if the Pistons sign a shooting guard in free agency, Knight will presumably get some of his minutes at the point guard spot, so using a lottery pick on Burke only to relegate him to third on the depth chart at point guard to start his career wouldn’t be the best use of resources.

Burke will never be confused with an elite defensive guard. That’s the biggest difference between he and Paul, who is nearly as elite defensively as he is offensively. The Pistons have desperately been trying to remake themselves in their old defense-first image, and Burke would be another questionable defender added to their mix of long-term prospects.

I do, however, think Burke has the feistiness (his floor-slapping to mock Keith Appling at Crisler Arena was one of my favorite moments of the season), quickness and 6-foot-5 wingspan to improve at that end of the court .

I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the one thing Burke consistently did that drove me crazy — I hope he eliminates the contested step-back three when the clock is winding down late from his arsenal completely. No one in college basketball could stay in front of Burke, but he tended to rely on that shot too much.

From the Experts:

Chad Ford:

Although Burke doesn’t have great size or the athleticism of some of the other elite point guards in the NBA, he has an incredible basketball IQ, can really shoot, rarely turns the ball over and makes those around him better. He should go somewhere in the top seven and will be the first or second point guard off the board.

DraftExpress:

The engine behind the #1 offense in college basketball, Burke was arguably the best pick and roll point guard in the NCAA this season, able to put incredible pressure on the defense thanks to the tremendous balance he brings between scoring and facilitating for others. The fact that he can make shots from anywhere on the floor, find the open man instantaneously, or get to the rim makes him extremely difficult to game-plan against.

What is the best thing Trey Burke does for his team?

Zach Travis (follow him on Twitter @zach_travis and @maizenbrew) covers the University of Michigan for Maize N Brew, SB Nation’s Michigan blog. Be sure to check out his great profile on Burke for SB Nation too.

“The one thing that Trey Burke did for Michigan that was the most important was take control of the game when it was desperately needed. The Wolverines had talent both years, but there was never a consistent number two scorer or post presence through which to run the offense, and the team traded athleticism concerns Burke’s freshman year for experience concerns the next. Burke was the genesis of Michigan’s offensive output, but even then there would be stretches where the rest of the team would go cold leaving it up to Burke. He was very good at shifting from facilitator to scorer to try and carry the scoring burden for the rest of the team for minutes at a time, and his offensive game and penchant for pushing the ball was often enough to open up passes to get other players easy shots and back into a rhythm. He found ways to come up with important defensive stops and used tempo to throw the other team off and give Michigan an advantage. That isn’t to say that things always worked out or that Burke did not fall prey to forcing his shot or pulling up from deep early in the shot clock before trying to work through the offense, but sometimes John Beilein simply had to let Trey be Trey, for better or worse. The way that Trey Burke took over games was plainly obvious to everyone in the building.  He could be quiet for long stretches, but when Trey Burke decided to take over there wasn’t a person watching that didn’t know it almost immediately.”

On Film:

114 Comments

  • Apr 29, 201311:51 am
    by Javell

    Reply

    Trey has cp3 potiential…. But id rather have drose potiential….

  • Apr 29, 201311:56 am
    by Huddy

    Reply

    First, I love the intro (especially the part about Craft).  I like college ball, but it is so frustrating to watch guys out of control grabbing and slapping ball handlers, and then listening to Dicky V praise them for being hard-nosed defenders.  The Lousiville-Michigan game could have ended with Louisville’s starting line-up fouling out before the first half if there was any form of consistency in calling the reach. 
     
    Trey’s biggest weakness is on D, but the PG position is probably the most difficult to guard.  They use more of the court, they get screens more frequently, fouls are called more easily for smaller guys, etc.  That being said, beyond getting a hand in the face on D a lot of PGs require help D on the drive and the Pistons are looking to have twin towers waiting to provide that.  Lawson, Nash, Conley, Parker, Jennings, Nelson…none of these guys match of physically with Westbrook or Holiday (basically any big PG) but for the most part they can be effective PGs by making most of their impact on the offensive end and requiring some help on D.
     
    On offense Burke gets his shot a lot like Lawson does.  A lot of step-backs and coming off screens.  Lawson’s faster, but Burke’s production in college was impacted by drawing more defensive pressure than anyone else on his team, which won’t be the case in the pros, so I don’t see why he can’t be effective in the NBA. 

    • Apr 29, 20133:50 pm
      by Chris N

      Reply

      “On offense Burke gets his shot a lot like Lawson does.  A lot of step-backs and coming off screens.  Lawson’s faster, but Burke’s production in college was impacted by drawing more defensive pressure than anyone else on his team, which won’t be the case in the pros, so I don’t see why he can’t be effective in the NBA.”

      I guess the question is”how effective?”  Lawson is faster and in the NBA, everything’s faster.  Defenses are faster. Defenders are faster. Shot clocks are faster.  Can he transition his game to fit a 24 second shot clock?  He’ll have to do more with less so to speak.  

      • Apr 29, 20133:56 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        I was just talking foot speed.  Lawson uses his speed to get to the rim at will, which I doubt Burke will do.  Burke kicks the ball better on drives and the step back they both use for jumpshooting.  Basically I can see Burke still being able to use his shooting ability because a short player like Lawson can in the NBA, I don’t think Burke will drive like him, but he is a better distributor than Lawson.  The shot clock is a pretty generic concern that could be made about anyone who plays College Basketball as they all have a longer shot clock.  He also has to adjust to different quarters and halves.

  • Apr 29, 201312:04 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    I like Burke, but it is an extreme long shot that the Pistons draft him. He may only be the 4th to 6th best prospect overall. But he is easily the best PG available, so it would be shocking to see him fall all the way to 7 or 8. On the other hand, if Detroit gets into the top 3, he is likely to be available, but there will be other, better prospects who better fit Detroit’s needs.

    • Apr 29, 201312:09 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      The only top prospect less likely to be a Piston is Noel. Because it looks like Detroit would have to get the top overall pick (maybe number 2) AND they would have to consider him a sufficiently better prospect than McLemore, Porter, or anyone else to ignore the fact that he doesn’t best fit their needs.

      • Apr 29, 20131:21 pm
        by Huddy

        Reply

        If Orlando picks first I think they would be hard pressed to not pick Noel and probably even Maclemore over Burke.  After that I would only really see NO or SAC picking him.  I read a lot about NO needing a PG, but it seems like Vasquez is at the very least serviceable for now.  Depending on their thoughts on Gordon moving forward they need help at SG, SF and C(or PF depending where Davis will be) at least as much as they need a PG if not more.  SAC is pretty lacking in the SF department and Isaiah Thomas has played well, so PG isn’t a lock for them…I think we have a good shot at Burke even if we don’t move up, but it would be helpful to at least get in from of either NO or SAC (obviously preferably both).

        • Apr 29, 20131:47 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Pretty sure NO wants to sell high on Vasquez. He’s a lot like Calderon, only if you took away all that accuracy. At this point they could probably get a swingman for him. If Porter is gone at NO’s pick, they take Burke & trade Vasquez for some help on the wing.

          • Apr 29, 20131:57 pm
            by Huddy

            Thats a fair assessment.  In our favor NO is probably the most likely to make a bad decision and draft someone like Len too high and depending on what they put in motion before the draft they may not risk assuming they will be able to find a good trade partner for Vasquez.  Maybe wishful thinking, but possible.

        • Apr 29, 20132:42 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Teams that could conceivably take Burke if they end up in the right spot in the draft:
          Charlotte
          Phoenix
          New Orleans
          Sacramento
          Detroit
          Toronto
          Dallas
          Utah

          Dallas, Utah, or Toronto would have to be in the top 3. But a couple of Charloote/Phoenix/New Orleans/Sacramento could easily wind up in the 4-7 range.

          • Apr 29, 20132:50 pm
            by G

            Don’t know about Phoenix (they have Dragic), Sacramento (Isaiah Thomas), or Toronto (Lowry). 

          • Apr 29, 20132:55 pm
            by Huddy

            Anyone COULD take him.  Toronto, Utah, Dallas…really low chance of jumping that high.  The Pistons would be lucky to get him projected at 7..12-14 is a real stretch.  Charlotte has far too many holes to draft the only position they are reasonably strong in with a top 3 pick and PHX is pretty unlikely considering Dragic is young and they just drafted Marshall.  Your earlier post said Noel was the only player less likely to be a Piston than Burke and now the argument is that teams projected in the teens are a risk when we are in the 7 spot?  I’m just sayin Orlando has the most glaring PG need and they are projected 1 after that wings like Maclemore, Porter, Oladipo, Shabazz, Bennet are high needs for the top picking teams and NO needs a big man.  Its not unfathomable.

          • Apr 29, 20133:07 pm
            by G

            NO needs a SF and a PG. I think they like their big man situation with Lopez & Davis.

          • Apr 29, 20133:17 pm
            by Huddy

            They shouldn’t be happy, Lopez is pretty bad.  They might consider making a SG move since Gordon doesn’t really want to be there as well.

          • Apr 29, 20133:27 pm
            by tarsier

            Phoenix, Sacramento, and Toronto all have decent PGs. Kinda like the Pistons do. But none of them have a particularly good one. So if one of them decides to upgrade, really there is only Burke as an option. Given that Toronto would have to be top 3, I wouldn’t expect them to do so. But the others would be good fits.

          • Apr 29, 20133:29 pm
            by G

            Lopez is a good defender. I’m sure their plan is to run out Ryan Anderson at PF once Davis adds some muscle and bring Lopez off the bench. Gordon may want out but he’s locked up until 2016.

          • Apr 29, 20133:32 pm
            by Huddy

            Vasquez is under contract as well, I was saying Gordon could be traded.

          • Apr 29, 20133:50 pm
            by tarsier

            But Vasquez has put up numbers better than he really is. So it makes sense to want to trade him. Gordon is probably at his trade value’s lowest point.

          • Apr 29, 20134:00 pm
            by G

            @ Tarsier – Toronto just chucked Calderon in part to open the game up for Lowry. Don’t see them taking a PG super early to impede that. Goran Dragic is pretty good and plays well both ways. Phoenix has too many holes to waste an early pick on a position of strength. Isaiah Thomas looks good but hasn’t made the leap yet, so I could see SAC grabbing Burke if all the SF’s are gone.

            @ Huddy – I haven’t heard anything the team “not liking” Gordon, but more that he’s unhappy because the team sucks. Winning heals all (or most) wounds, and if they can make the playoffs next year (not out of the question with a Burke/Gordon/Aminu/Anderson/Davis lineup), I’m betting Gordon sticks. Vasquez, on the other hand, is a limited player who’s playing well. I’ve read that Monty Williams doesn’t love his game & NO is looking to trade high. Could be wrong, but it looks like NO has McLemore, Porter, and Burke in order on their draft board (per Chad Ford, who knows things).

          • Apr 29, 20134:11 pm
            by tarsier

            Dragic is decent, but I don’t see PG as particularly more a position of strength on PHX than any other. Dragic, Tucker, Dudley, Scola, Gortat is a five man lineup of decent players at every position.

            In other words, Phoenix has a whole bunch of guys who would be really good bench players but should be the weak link in a starting lineup. So your argument could be applied to any other position besides PG too.

            The same goes for Toronto. Lowry was expected to be really good when Calderon left, but he was kinda mediocre. With DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, and Valanciunas on the team, I don’t see how they have any needs particularly greater than PG. 

          • Apr 29, 20134:42 pm
            by G

            Who’s their SF again? Or their SG? Dudley’s ok, he’s the only one who can convert threes at a decent rate, but c’mon… Dragic is easily their best player, he needs someone to pass to.

          • Apr 29, 20134:50 pm
            by oats

            @tarsier. Phoenix was tanking all year pretty much. They started pushing their younger players more pretty early. Part of that is that Hunter was pretty awful, and even he has talked about not calling any plays his first game and having only a token handful of plays by the end of the season. That team was definitely just going through the motions this year. Given that, I’d say Gortat is a legitimate starting center. Last year Gortat put up a 15 and 10. That’s pretty solid. I feel like Dudley could be the 5th best player on a good team, but I’ll concede he’s probably more of a reserve than not. Goran Dragic is the only other player that looks like he should be thought of as a potential long term starter. He put up roughly a 15 and 7. His shooting percentages are a bit below average, but his passing and defense makes him a vaguely functional starter. Tucker and Scola were much worse than those 3, Scola is also old, and Dudley could play either spot. I’d expect them to prioritize a big man to pair with Gortat or a wing player to pair with Dudley over a point guard for that reason. While still a pretty bad team, that gets them closer to good than demoting Dragic does.
             
            @G. I think Gortat is their best player actually, he just really mailed in this year. When he’s engaged he’s a reasonably productive offensive player and a solid defender. Dragic is ok on defense, but it’s still a bit of a weakness. That said, Dragic easily had the best year for them.

  • Apr 29, 201312:13 pm
    by G

    Reply

    Love the breakdown of Caputo. If you do a google search on “Pat Caputo is”, the first option is “Pat Caputo is an idiot”. It’s true, and I usually feel dumber for having listened to him, so I don’t listen to him.

    @Javell – you’d rather have D Rose potential than CP3 potential? Chris Paul is the best PG in the country, one of the 5 best players in the NBA even when Rose is healthy, and plays exceptionally well on defense as well as offense. Why would you rather have Rose? 

  • Apr 29, 201312:37 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    I like really like Burke, but as I said before I wouldn’t gamble on another PG. You don’t really know what you are going to get from him! We need a shooting guard. Oladipo and Shabazz are good options for the Pistons. 
    ——————————————–
    Who missed Brandon Knight lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVkHGXHmay0

    • Apr 29, 201312:40 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Ugh… Shabazz… Maybe the most overrated dude in the draft after Len & Zeller.

      • Apr 29, 20131:19 pm
        by mixmasta

        Reply

        What do you think of Monta Ellis?
         

        • Apr 29, 20131:32 pm
          by G

          Reply

          …shudder…

          Actually, I think there’s value in having a player like Ellis that you can put out there to take a lot of shots, but Ellis converts at such an abominable rate…

          • Apr 29, 20132:46 pm
            by tarsier

            Actually, on his career, Ellis has basically a league average FG%. I’ve never understood how he wound up with a reputation as an inefficient gunner. He’s a pretty solid, efficient gunner. But his defense is so terrible that he is not a very valuable player. I’d still be happy to have him at maybe $5M/yr. But there’s no way he takes such a low pay rate.

          • Apr 29, 20132:48 pm
            by tarsier

            career splits: 46/32/77

            not exceptional on any count, but decent on all 

          • Apr 29, 20132:55 pm
            by G

            32% is on the low side for 3pt%. League average is 36%. Keep in mind those are his career numbers. This year he shot .416/.287/.773 on 17.5 FGA per game. That’s basically Rodney Stuckey taking 8 more shots a game this year.

          • Apr 29, 20133:47 pm
            by tarsier

            It’s true, his three point shooting is below average, but it’s still “decent”, as I said. And his career 2pt% and overall FG% are both significantly above average for guards.

            Yes, I recognize that he just had an abysmal year. But I see no reason to think this last season was a better predictor than his entire career of who he will be going forward.

            No matter though. His price tag will probably be north of $8M/yr. And for that number, I wouldn’t touch Monta.

          • Apr 29, 20133:48 pm
            by tarsier

            Also, Ellis had a reputation as an inefficient gunner long before this year, which was really his first bad shooting season (although he has had a couple that were no better than mediocre).

          • Apr 29, 20134:14 pm
            by G

            Last year was pretty bad for Monta too, 43% FG, 31% 3PT. Really though (and you should know this) you have to look at the TS%. Other than the ’07-’08 season, Monta has had pretty bad numbers there. He shot .503 TS% in ’08-’09, .517 in ’09-’10, average in ’10-’11, then .509 last year and .493 this year.

            What ticked people off was that Monta was taking 20 shots a game while shooting league average numbers & Steph Curry was taking 14 shots a game. They dealt Monta, and now Curry is taking 17+ shots a game.

          • Apr 29, 20135:30 pm
            by tarsier

            He’s never been a marvel of efficiency. But my point was just that he is ok on that end and undeserving of his reputation to the contrary. His big issue is on the other side of the court where he nearly nullifies his value. Also, 43% is about average for a guard. I’m gonna guess that around .500 is typical for guards’ TS%. But I don’t really know. I may use it to compare two given players but I don’t have much of a sense of league averages there. 

          • Apr 29, 20135:37 pm
            by G

            You would be incorrect about TS%, a 53 TS% is league average for a guard. You’re actually dead on about FG%, 43% is league average for guards. The thing with Monta Ellis is mainly people thought he was REALLY good & underrated until they started examining advanced stats more, and realized all that shooting wasn’t producing as many points as it should.

      • Apr 29, 20131:23 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        Im going to save my YOU ARE RIDICLOLUS FORCALLING SHABAZZ OVERRATED! to myself…

        and focus on Burke…

        Comparison: Burke reminds me soo much of Nick Van Exel, and its not a bad thing, but he is not Chris Paul, people fall in love with those College assist numbers. That maybe not translate to the NBA.

        Defensively, he will get steals but still struggle. Kemba Walker gets steals, but struggles defensively to keep his man out the lane.

        Intangibles: He has that take over game mindset, but I dont know if he is physically able to do it on the NBA.

        • Apr 29, 20132:44 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Not addressing the Shabazz thing, we both have beat that dead horse too much.

          As far as questioning Burke’s ability to take over an NBA game, what about Nate Robinson? Nate Robinson has more hops, but that doesn’t really factor in on jump shots, where Nate does most of his damage. At 5’9″, Nate is able to take over games in the NBA. There’s an old cliche about “the size of the fight in the dog”, but it’s true. The mentality is more important.

          I think with the college assist numbers, talent evaluators tend to look more at court vision than actual assists. Burke did a phenomenal job of finding open shooters, whether they were around the hoop or around the 3pt line. He has a good lob pass (harder than it looks), good interior passing (especially on PnR), and does a great job of kicking it out. He also takes care of the ball well. 

          • Apr 29, 20133:47 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “”As far as questioning Burke’s ability to take over an NBA game, what about Nate Robinson? Nate Robinson has more hops, but that doesn’t really factor in on jump shots, where Nate does most of his damage. At 5’9?, Nate is able to take over games in the NBA. There’s an old cliche about “the size of the fight in the dog”, but it’s true. The mentality is more important”"

            1. i agree, thats why i compared him to Van exel….Physically Nate is a wonder even at 5’7-5’9…but he is also limited…This has been a solid 3 point shooting year for Nate also…. above his average…I know its not what you are saying but if Burke turns out to be a Nate without the explosiveness…that a problem…he struggled against the more elite teams as well…

            “”think with the college assist numbers, talent evaluators tend to look more at court vision than actual assists. Burke did a phenomenal job of finding open shooters, whether they were around the hoop or around the 3pt line. He has a good lob pass (harder than it looks), good interior passing (especially on PnR), and does a great job of kicking it out. He also takes care of the ball well.”"

            2. Not trying to diminish is talent or skill set, but the offense ran at michigan burke was perfect fit; with the right players and they had the right attitudes and coach that said GO!… Now if next year we play like The Warriors or Nuggets..then maybe…

          • Apr 29, 20134:26 pm
            by G

            Who, exactly, was the second best player on Michigan’s team? Was it Hardaway? GR3? McGary? Which one of those players made Burke better? OF COURSE the system was tailored around Burke, he was by far the best player on the team. It doesn’t change the fact that he played VERY WELL in a system that looked similar to what pro teams run now.

            I used Nate Robinson as an example of a small guy who can take over games. I don’t really think Burke & Robinson’s games are that similar, Burke is a MUCH better play maker. I could’ve said Chris Paul, same situation applies. Van Exel basically averaged 16 ppg, 8 assists until he turned 31 & lost a step. Burke has a better shot than X, but I agree, definitely not a knock to comp Burke to Van Exel.

          • Apr 29, 20139:02 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            I know your not comparing the two…that’s why I said “I know your not saying”

            And I’m just talking about that quick fast up and down offense, I’d like some stats of how efficent he was in the Half-court …HOWEVER! Its not that he can’t get better

             

      • Apr 29, 20131:26 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        shhhh, g….don’t badmouth len or zeller…or for that matter shabazz.  
        the pistons draft depends on one of those guys wowing other teams at the combine and moving back up the draft order.
        as it stands now, this is a draft where the first tier is only 6 players deep and the pistons will most likely have the 7th choice.
        if the pistons are going to get one of those top tier players, someone outside of that tier has to make some team fall in love with them – like terrance ross last year – do the pistons get a shot at one of those top tier guys.
        len might be that guy – 7 footers always are overrated – and zeller might just be able to get people to forget the last half of this past year.   same thing with shabazz.  all of those guys were seen as sure-fire top 7 picks previously, and with a little bit of luck maybe one of those top 6 teams will be willing to overlook some of the weaknesses that have recently been exposed.
        another guy i think might vault up the draft order  is caldwell-pope.  he just looks like an all-star nba SG, and he’s a good enough athlete that he might have a very good combine and cause some team to fall in love with him.  in fact, he looks a lot like mclemore, though mclemore seems to be a little more consistent and a bit more willing to go inside and take a hit.  i kind of like him, but only saw a couple of his games and each game, he shot almost nothing but long jumpers, even though he did some eye-opening things the couple of times he actually got close to the basket.  one play, he just went up over a couple of big guys to tip in an offensive rebound, the kind of play that few guys can do.  seemed like he just really liked to shoot the “j” and didn’t like to get hit the way he’d get hit by using his athleticism to get to the hole.  but somebody might be willing to gamble on him because of his potential, and if he vaults into the top 5 or 6, then someone like burke or porter or bennett might just fall to detroit.  and i’d be happy with any of the top 6 guys: noel, burke, porter, bennett, olipado, mclemore.

        • Apr 29, 20131:43 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Not that I think scouts & GM’s from other NBA teams are trolling these comment sections, but…

          Wow, did you get a load of that guy Zeller? Reminds me of Rik Smits the way he works it in the paint!
          Len, he could be the next Marc Gasol with his passing & shooting skills, as well as that D!
          Don’t count out Shabazz for ROY, he’s got a PURE SCORER’S MENTALITY and the length to be a 1st team Defense at the SG spot.

          Think it worked? 

          • Apr 29, 20131:49 pm
            by frankie d

            hey…that is better.   keep it up! 
            ii think both zeller and len could end up being the next pau gasol.  both just need the chance and the right organization.
            and shabazz is ron artest with a jumper.  any team that passes on him is going to be sorry. 

          • Apr 29, 20131:51 pm
            by Huddy

            Don’t forget Kelly Olnyk, Dirk’s range with Luis Scola’s hair…look out #1 pick!

  • Apr 29, 20131:16 pm
    by sop

    Reply

    Draft Nightmares: Trey Burke. Please don’t draft the next DJ Augustine.

    • Apr 29, 20131:31 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      are you kidding?
      when did augustin ever show the ability to make decisions the way that burke did? their assist/turnover ratios are nowhere close to being similar.
      augustin was a guy who always looked to be a dribble away from turning it over or just shooting a dumb shot.
      burke appears to be the very opposite kind of player, a guy who really values the ball and takes care of it. 

  • Apr 29, 20131:24 pm
    by sop

    Reply

    Review the 2nd game against MSU on March 3 to see what kind of childish attitude Burke brings. I’d love to see him try to taunt NBA pgs like that.

    • Apr 29, 20131:37 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Well, Burke OWNED Appling that game. And as we all know, <NBA players NEVER taunt their opponents when they own them>

      • Apr 29, 20133:50 pm
        by bball4224

        Reply

        That was part of the reason I loved Jon Barry so much.

    • Apr 29, 20131:44 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Typical UofM/MSU fan BS.  When either one loses the other team was classless, the refs were horrible, they would have won if so and so wasn’t hurt…blah blah blah both side’s fans say the same stuff.  Drop your bias for a moment and look at the player as a whole.  You didn’t like his attitude in one rivalry game in two years and now hes childish?

  • Apr 29, 20131:32 pm
    by Wolverines23

    Reply

    Nice article, fairly accurate assessment of Trey Burke!
    As a Michigan Wolverines fan, I love Burke, and like most Michigan fans I’d love for the Pistons to be in a position to draft him. However, I feel that Victor Oladipo is the steal in this draft for the Pistons. Watching him play all season and in the tournament, I really believe that we need a defensive minded shooting guard who is big enough to play the 2. I also think that he’d be a great addition along side Andre Drummond.
    The Pistons should save most of their money this free agency for 2014, and the only move they should look to make is adding Corey Brewer at the 3. I would rather gamble with Brandon Knight at the point guard position simply because he is the best scorer out of the Detroit guards. Brandon Knight will probably never be as efficient or effective as Steph Curry, but watching Curry this off season has been so entertaining. Watching a young pg scorer, who sometimes plays the 2 with Jarrett Jack running the PG.
    A starting lineup of: Brandon Knight, Victor Oladipo, Corey Brewer, Greg Monroe, and Andre Drummond would be fairly competitive. With Stuckey coming off the bench with his scoring abilities and a limited role, and Jonas with his energy, if we could keep Jason Max I’d love to have him for his defensive intensity, but I feel Will Bynum has to go and so does Jose Calderon, if the Pistons see Rodney Stuckey running the bench (which I think he can be effective, at least for one more year since we have him), if we are going to trade Stuckey then resigning Will Bynum is definitely a must, as I don’t think Calderon would accept a bench role on this team.
    As Pistons fans, we want the team to get better over night and sometimes lose patience. I also feel Joe Dumars and the management/coaching staff lose patience with their players/team and are really bad with player development: Aaron Aflao, Carlos Delfino, Amir Johnson, if we even kept one of these guys, they would be a great addition to our bench. The Pistons should save money for the future, if it doesn’t work out they have a strong draft coming in next year, and our lottery pick is protected until the 8th pick I believe, if were better then that, our goal should be to make the playoffs, but if not then we have a lot of money still saved up, possibly more if we amnesty Charlie V, and trade Stuckey for draft picks.

    That being said, I still feel things could work out with Trey Burke if he’s available for the Pistons. The lottery really isn’t in our control, but both Oladipo and Burke would be great additions to the team. Wish we could have them both to be honest, and have Brandon Knight come off the bench!

    • Apr 29, 20132:16 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Wow. Change “probably” to “definitely” and you’re right on. Brandon Knight will never be as efficient or effective as Curry is right now. Curry will probably have a 50%/45%/90% sometime in the future, Knight will be fortunate to go 45%/40%/80% (though not out of the question). I think a good model for Knight to follow would be Jason Terry (the Dallas version). Shorter combo guard, worked on his mid-range game, found a role as a scorer & got a killer mentality. Add in the fact that Knight is turning into a quality defender, and he could be a quality player. 

      That starting lineup you threw out there lacks a PG. Knight can take a little of the load off the PG’s back, but he can’t be the primary ball handler. Brewer in that lineup would be totally wasted offensively, as would Oladipo. They could get stops but not buckets.

      Pass on Maxiell. He can be fierce, but usually he gets dominated & is basically a negative impact on the offensive side. I’d rather have Speights as a backup big. Why would you rather have Bynum than Calderon? Calderon’s a better offensive player than Knight, AND he can run that PnR with Drummond. I’d rather they trade Stuckey for a pick in next year’s draft, re-sign Calderon or make a run at Teague, and draft the best perimeter player available wherever the Pistons are picking.

  • Apr 29, 20132:07 pm
    by Scott Free

    Reply

    Whats the point in retaining Calderone if we’re pursuing Burke?  

    I like Jose, but I think we overvalue his contributions sometimes.  Spot on 3 point shooter?  Check.  High assist to turnover ratio?  Check.  Excellent playmaker?  Check.  Good fit for the Pistons?  I’m not so sure.  

    Who cares if Knight scores 16 points if he turned the ball over 3 times without an assist?  Likewise, who cares if Jose logs 9 assists if his defensive assignment can leisurely walk to the hoop every time down the court?  

    Knight is better suited to backup, and Calderone needs an athletic, defensive-minded spot-up shooting wing.  The question is… would you rather build around one of those two in the guard position… or Burke?  

    Which begs the question I posed to start this tirade… why pursue Calderone if you can draft Burke?

    • Apr 29, 20132:16 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Lots of guys can score 15 on bad shooting percentages and do nothing else, not as many can distribute like Calderon.  Defensive point is fair, but when defending the PG position help defense in the paint on drives is common.  There aren’t many great defending PGs out there.  You want someone who averages 15 and gets 9 assists AND is a lock down defender?  You’ll be looking for a long time and spending twice what Claderon charges.
       
      Keeping Calderon if we drafted Burke, IMO, would benefit Burke, but ultimately hurt the team financially.  If Jose was a back up getting a couple mil a year helping Burke along that would be cool but 8 mil a year to help bring along a young PG is a stretch.

      • Apr 29, 20135:41 pm
        by Scott Free

        Reply

        I dont expect a Lock-Down defender at the point.  I expect defense.  Out of all the Pistons, only Kim English had a worse defensive rating than Calderone (and thats likely due to some statistical anomalies).

        This is a team that ranked 22nd in the league in defensive efficiency… and it features Greg Monroe, Kyle Singler starting at the 2, and resident shrinking violet, Charlie Villanueva.  To be the worst defender among that group and expect a starter’s salary past 30 is absurd.

        Pursuing Jose Calderone would be a mistake for these Detroit Pistons without adding excellent wing defenders.  Unfortunately, Jose pushed Brandon Knight out of position defensively which neuters the only passable wing defender we have guaranteed under contract. 

        • Apr 29, 20135:59 pm
          by G

          Reply

          Knight wasn’t exactly a “lock down” defender at PG, so…

          • Apr 29, 20136:01 pm
            by Scott Free

            ^ reading comprehension?  I just said I DONT expect a lock down defender.

          • Apr 29, 20136:08 pm
            by G

            I read that part. I also read the part where you said pursuing Calderon without adding an excellent wing defender would be a mistake. I was merely pointing out that Knight is hardly an excellent wing defender, and barely better at defending PG’s than SG’s. 

            What I didn’t point out was that the terrible offense Knight brings as a PG more than makes up for any advantage he has as a defender. 

        • Apr 29, 20136:01 pm
          by G

          Reply

          If you think the only reason Kim English had a worse defensive rating than Calderon was “statistical anomalies”, you clearly didn’t watch the games. English was BAD. The difference in Knight guarding 1′s and 2′s was pretty slight. Having Drummond at C makes more of a difference defensively than Knight over Calderon at PG.

          • Apr 29, 20136:04 pm
            by Scott Free

            Your point being?  Calderon is still worse defensively than Charlie V. for crying out loud.

          • Apr 29, 20136:09 pm
            by G

            My point was the last sentence.

          • Apr 30, 20132:27 pm
            by Scott Free

            So in effect you’re arguing that the Pistons should tolerate one of the leagues worst perimeter defenses because…

            Andre Drummond is enough of a better defender than Monroe to make a larger difference in the paint?

            I mean if you want to watch a soft squad make excellent tactical decisions in a loss, more power to you.  Personally, I think its possible to save money/defense by ignoring an aging liability when we can draft someone whose defensive superiority over Jose likely offsets Calderon’s currently greater offensive contributions.  

            I’d rather draft an exciting free agent prospect like Burke, trust HIM to be the point guard of the future and try to obtain a better wing in the off-season.

            Otherwise you’re banking on a tactically brilliant, yet aged point guard, looking for the last good contract before his decline with Burke sitting on the bench & Knight playing starting 2 guard.  Sure you got depth and a nursery for Burke to thrive.. but thats a tiny rotation GUARANTEED to get beat up by opposing back-courts.  Plus, it ties your hands in obtaining whoever should start at 2.

            OR, you take your lumps with Burke for a season and use the money that you’d otherwise spend on Calderon to find a wing that could partner well with Burke while Knight plays combo 6th man.  

            I could see a possibility working very well in retaining Calderone, if the Pistons draft Oladipo instead of Burke… but Victor doesn’t exactly have the ceiling that Burke has and in 3 years or less you’d be looking for another new point guard at the exact same time as Monroe hits free agency.    

          • Apr 30, 20134:36 pm
            by oats

            Or you bring back Calderon and get a starting shooting guard, and then demote Knight to about 15 minutes a game until Calderon declines. Or you just trade Knight, a move I’m becoming more convinced makes sense. I’d trade him for a mid first round pick so I could get Reggie Bullock to take his place, and I think that is a doable trade.
             
            Also, how many starting shooting guards are there out there in this free agent crop. Mayo, Redick, and… I guess Gerald Henderson, Nick Young, and Martell Webster also qualify. Mayo’s slipped a bit since his hot start and might be a guy over performing in a contract year, and will likely be over paid. Redick could get over paid and doesn’t play much defense, but he still is my favorite guy out there. Henderson only just got up to 33% shooting on 3s, and if he doesn’t improve that number I’d rather have Knight starting over him. Nick Young is a streaky head case with bad shot selection. Webster has similar issues to Young, but Washington also seems to really like how he plays at the 3 with Wall and Beal so he might be too expensive to be worthwhile. After that we’re talking about guys who are either better suited at the 3 like Dorrell Wright or more of bench players like Anthony Morrow or Randy Foye. So who at shooting guard is more worth spending money on than Calderon, especially since the team could easily afford both if they amnesty CV and/or buy out Stuckey.
             

          • Apr 30, 20137:15 pm
            by Scott Free

            They need the CV/Stuckey money for Monroe.  I haven’t delved too deeply in the free agent class, but isn’t Tyreke Evans a possibility?  

            (And yes G, I know about his defense and I STILL think Burke/Evans would be the better defensive pairing than Calderon/Knight)

             

          • Apr 30, 20138:03 pm
            by oats

            Ok, I will concede I missed Evans. I missed him because he can’t shoot the 3. He finally got up to average shooting it in a contract year, but much like Henderson I don’t trust that to continue. He’s a much better player than Henderson, but I really think that floor spacing is at too much of a premium for it to make sense gambling on a guy who only shot the 3 well in his contract year. Almost any other team in the league and I’d be all over Evans, but I don’t like his fit in Detroit.
             
            Yeah, they will eventually need the money, but not that badly for Monroe. As of now Detroit has $51.5 million owed for the year Monroe will be getting his new contract. Part of that is the cap hold on Monroe of $10 million. Let’s say he get’s a max contract and for ease we’ll use $15 million as his salary. That puts Detroit at $56.5 million, and add an extra $3 million for the 7th pick in this year’s draft puts it at $59.5 million. $25 million of that is for Stuckey and CV’s cap holds and won’t be applicable. So Detroit could probably pay about $20 million for Calderon and a shooting guard and stay just under the cap, or if they bring in a cheap small forward or big man they’d go a bit over but stay under the luxury tax line. Considering they can break the cap to keep Monroe I’d say this is a pretty reasonable scenario. This scenario might have the team getting squeezed out on keeping Knight, but I have to admit I’m not that afraid of that possibility. If the team amnesties CV and buys out Stuckey they could even front load contracts and have some cap space to spare. The key is that Calderon has to be off the books before Drummond’s new contract comes up, so I’d limit him to a 3 year deal.

          • May 2, 201311:46 am
            by Scott Free

            Wow oats good call.  Also, you’re right about Evans… I think he’s one of the best wings available but the 3 pt shooting is essential with Drummond/Monroe down low.  (I wouldnt be surprised if we picked up Reddick for that reason.)

            Also, glad to hear someone break down a scenario where we can get Calderon now, afford a wing guard, AND retain Monroe/Drummond.  

            I too wouldnt be heart-broken to see Knight leave, but I can see him blowing up the moment he leaves for another squad.  

    • Apr 29, 20132:29 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Things Calderon does well:
      - creates for teammates
      - limits turnovers
      - shoots threes
      - shoots other shots
      - shoots FT’s
      Things Calderon does OK:
      - gets steals
      Things Calderon does badly:
      - plays man2man defense 

      Things Knight does well:
      - …
      Things Knight does OK:
      - shoots threes
      - plays defense
      Things Knight does badly:
      - limits turnovers
      - shoots other shots
      - creates for teammates 

      • Apr 29, 20133:50 pm
        by sop

        Reply

        Agreed. Calderon is precisely the player that Detroit needs… I just don’t understand why he wasn’t able to help them to many wins when he was a Piston.

        • Apr 29, 20134:27 pm
          by G

          Reply

          I have your answer in 2 words – no Dre.

          • Apr 29, 20135:27 pm
            by Scott Free

            That suggests Dre is valuable to our organization, we already knew that.  Its no defense of Calderone’s play.   

          • Apr 29, 20135:37 pm
            by oats

            Point: Calderon came to Detroit and the team didn’t get better.
            Counterpoint: There were other factors in determining team success than just Calderon, and Drummond’s injury trumped all of them.
             
            That is clearly a defense of Calderon’s play because it deflected against a criticism of his play. I really don’t see your point here at all.

          • Apr 29, 20135:39 pm
            by G

            Well, that took longer than 2 words but it’s essentially what I was trying to say.

          • Apr 29, 20135:47 pm
            by oats

            I reformatted it in long form to make it clear how it was a defense of Calderon’s play. I tend to struggle with brevity…

          • Apr 29, 20135:49 pm
            by Scott Free

            Its a defense of his record, not his play.  

          • Apr 29, 20135:56 pm
            by G

            Well, seeing as how you were questioning his record, I thought it an appropriate response. Nothing in your original comment actually questioned Calderon’s play.

          • Apr 29, 20136:05 pm
            by Scott Free

            I didn’t question his record, sop did.  again… reading comprehension doesnt appear your strong suit.

          • Apr 29, 20136:13 pm
            by G

            Not really paying attention to who the hell is arguing with me at this point. What difference does it make if you said it or sop or whoever said it? The point is THE ORIGINAL argument was that Detroit had a bad record with Calderon, ergo Calderon didn’t help the team. I tried to simply state that there’s more to a record than one player and Drummond missing most of the time Calderon was here basically crushed a floundering team.

            Done wasting time with you. 

      • Apr 29, 20135:26 pm
        by Scott Free

        Reply

        I’m not comparing Knight to Calderone.  I’m comparing Calderone to Burke.  

        • Apr 29, 20135:45 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          You also argued for Knight as the backup over Burke, but left out the third option. Burke backs up Calderon for a year or two while he develops and then the two flip roles whenever Burke is ready. To me that makes sense over just starting Burke and having Knight as his backup since Burke > Knight at PG, and Calderon > Knight at PG. That’s how a Knight to Calderon comparison comes in to play. Of course salary has to be taken in to account, but I don’t think Calderon will get that much more than a typical sixth man. If the team also front loads the contract so he gets more in the first year when he is the starter he could be on a reasonable deal for a back up point guard.

        • Apr 29, 20135:47 pm
          by G

          Reply

          I believe the implication in the article was that Burke would play backup PG his first year and Calderon would slide off into sort of a secondary role, maybe even a 2 guard, as Burke developed. 

          I’d rather go with Burke over Knight at PG any day, and at this point I’d take Calderon at SG over Knight too. The main thing I was responding to was your implication that Calderon’s impact on the team was minimal. Anyway, if the Pistons re-up with Calderon, they wouldn’t be “building around” him. He’s 31. They can still draft Burke and develop him while Calderon plays out a 2-yr contract or something.

          • Apr 29, 20136:00 pm
            by Scott Free

            Everything, I’ve read about Calderon suggests he’s looking for one last pay-day before he begins to decline.  My opinion changes if he’s willing to settle on a 6th man’s salary.

            I just think its ridiculous for a franchise working to get out from under onerous contracts to overpay on Calderon just because Burke isn’t quite ready for primetime.  

            For different reasons, both Calderon’s play and Knight’s demand an additional defensively capable, athletic wing.  That wont come cheap.  The question is, do you pursue one in the draft and hope to pick up your REAL point guard of the future on the free agent market?  OR do you live with Burke in the draft, let Calderon slide, and push that extra money towards a quality wing.  

            I don’t think you lose as much going the second route.   

          • Apr 29, 20136:16 pm
            by oats

            Ok, that is fair enough. I really don’t see anyone giving Calderon starter’s money though. I’d offer him something like $9 million in year one followed by $4 million in years two and 3. He’d get paid like a solid starter for a year, but after that he is paid like a bench guard, and at 3 years $17 million it would probably be about as high of an offer as he is likely to get. If someone wants to give him $7-10 million a year it stops making sense, but I don’t know who looks at Calderon and thinks it makes sense to spend that much on him at this point in his career. I’d say using a conventional salary structure $6 million per year is about as high as he gets, and there are worse things than paying Calderon $6 million a year to come off the bench.

    • Apr 29, 20133:49 pm
      by jamesjones_det

      Reply

      I like Jose but the kind of money he is going to want at 32 yrs old before the start of next year… I’m not sure it’s worth it, not unless you think you can put a team together that can win it all next year or the year after.
       
      I have lost faith that Knight can run the point and I think that’s why everyone is thinking draft a PG.

      • Apr 29, 20133:55 pm
        by sop

        Reply

        Do you remember how well Chauncey Billups was running the point by his second year? Give Knight 1 more year if we don’t land CP3. I’d take Calderon back for cheap or try to trade him and Stuckey + pick for Rondo but not interested in a big contract. Knight would actually fit really well next to a facilitating wing like Iguoudala.

        • Apr 29, 20134:14 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Stop bringing up Billups already people. Yes, I get that Knight is a work in progress. But the fact that everyone keeps pointing at Billups instead of pointing at a whole bunch of examples of guys who started off slow then really came into their own should tell you how ridiculous it is to expect any given player to follow the track of a guy who was the exception, not the rule.

          • Apr 29, 20134:33 pm
            by G

            ^Agreeagreeagree… Shut the eff up about Billups already, he’s like the one guy & he’s a special case because he played for 4 different teams his first 4 years in the league. Knight’s had the same team, same coach, and there’s no real excuses for why he’s not a good PG. He’s just not a good PG.

        • Apr 29, 20134:27 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I really hate the Chauncey Billups comparison. Chauncey’s jump as a point guard was beyond improbable. He is far and away the exception, and it is asinine to think anyone else will be the next guy to do it. It’s technically possible that Knight or someone else could make that same kind of jump despite starting that poorly, but to think any one of them will do it is nutty. For that reason, it is kind of dumb to plan on that being a possibility.
           
          But let’s forget all of that for a second, Billups went in to his second season as a shooting guard. They had exactly no plans to make him a point guard, and all 41 of his starts were as a shooting guard next to Nick Van Exel. This was also his 3rd team in only two years. The third year in the league they planned to do the same thing, but he lost his job to Ron Mercer before getting hurt. In his 4th year he became a 6th man combo guard on his 4th team, and that was when he finally cracked the 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio with 3.4 assist and 1.4 turnovers. In year 5 he got more time at point guard and had his play time expanded, and he responded with 5.5 assists and 1.7 turnovers. So, the question is, what in that suggests Knight should be the starter? Doesn’t that tell us that he could make the same kind of strides in a reserve role? I think so, and if he’s a reserve then his crummy point guard play won’t drag down the rest of the players who also need to develop. If he actually does make progress there then it might make sense to let him grow from that reserve role to the starting job, but as of now it makes no sense at all.

          • May 2, 201311:51 am
            by Scott Free

            I think the Chauncey comparison is fair in-so-far as its an example not to give up on a player early on in their career.  But to say Knight would follow Billup’s record simply because they have similar numbers at age 21 is ludicrous.  

  • Apr 29, 20132:56 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    Great post on Burke but one thing that stood out to me is that in the disclaimer it was mentioned that Aaron Craft and players like him become stars because of the way they play the clutchy, grabby and flopping type of defense. I find it kind of ironic in the comparison to Chris Paul to Burke that CP3 is considered an elite defender while he relies a lot on these same tactics and probably perfected the clutching, the grabbing, and definitely the flopping way of playing defense. If you watch any of the Clipper games, it’s not hard to see. He’s up there in steals and he’s a very smart player, but if you disqualify those methods of playing D then you can’t give him credit for being an elite defender when Aaron Craft is knocked for the same thing. No way am I saying Aaron Craft is on the level of CP3 but they do employ similar if not the same type of methods when playing defense.

    Disclaimer (I am not an Ohio State fan, just calling it like I see it)

    • Apr 29, 20133:29 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      The point isn’t the style. It’s how well it works.

      • Apr 29, 20137:09 pm
        by Big Rick

        Reply

        True, now days its a big part of the game.

      • Apr 29, 20137:27 pm
        by Big Rick

        Reply

        Was just making a point that you have 2 point guards who play the same position and play defense in a pretty similar style. Neither relies on superior physical attributes or athleticism, but primarily on basketball IQ and adopting and mastering the tricks of the trade, like clutching, grabbing, hitting, flopping, scratching, etc. One just happens to be an All-Star guard and considered the top PG in the league arguably and another point guard who probably is an icon in Ohio but considered ovrrated and not a true NBA prospect by many. Just saying it was ironic tat Kraft was knocked for the way he plays defense but CP3 plays D the same way and is considered an elite defender.  If you really watch CP3 play you could make the case that he is borderline dirty and probably the same for Craft. But I guess CP3 gets a pass for obvious reasons.

  • Apr 29, 20133:19 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    I like that post G, an I like the thought of drafting Burke. But I don’t like the thought of having too many guards on our team, to clarify not too keen on going into next season with Stuckey on the team and with Knight having an undefined role. That’s why these next few moves will be crucial into how next season will shape up and turn out.
    1. Our next coaching hire willl….maybe….., perhaps contribute to start building an identity for our team.
    2.Draft will continue to add to our young nucleus and contribute to solidifying roles and addressing needs in free agency more clearly.
    3. Free Agency, can add and subtract from our current roster with hopes of boistering our on court product, ultimately resulting in more wins.

    This is a high pressure summer for Joe D, and the organization. Although I love my team, I miss beng competitive so maybe we can turn things around this year.

    On another note, does anyone ind it kind of mildly interesting that CAVS owner Dan Gilbert seems more passionate about our team than Mr. Gores. Just think that’s funny, gotta like Dan for trying to bring business to Detroit. LOL

    • Apr 29, 20133:26 pm
      by Huddy

      Reply

      The Stadiums and entertainment downtown are nice, but the real benefits of things like that are for people like Gilbert that develop the land.  Actual Detroit residents can’t afford to par take in the entertainment and the tax revenue is decreased because guys like Gilbert hold out for the cheapest tax rates in bad areas so they can maximize profit.  Its all just PR to make the middle class folks from the suburbs feel good about coming downtown and then retreating safely home so they can say they hang out in Detroit.  The Palace is located where the fans would be driving in from anyway in reality.

      • Apr 29, 20133:39 pm
        by G

        Reply

        The parking situation downtown is ridiculous. If the Pistons move downtown, they should move into wherever the Wings end up re-locating & add a parking garage.

        • Apr 29, 20135:18 pm
          by Matt

          Reply

          If Gores didn’t buy the Palace (and then make all of the renovations) along with the Pistons, I could possibly see them moving downtown. Unfortunately, and I say that because I work in Detroit and live downriver, I don’t think the Pistons are leaving the Palace for a very long time.

          • Apr 29, 20135:54 pm
            by G

            Agree, don’t see it happening any time soon. If they did & built their own arena (instead of sharing w/ the Wings), there could potentially be all 4 major sports teams playing at the same time within a few blocks of each other. I think the term you’re looking for is “clusterf&*%”.

  • Apr 29, 20133:45 pm
    by jamesjones_det

    Reply

    Not going to happen with Joe at the helm. 
     

  • Apr 29, 20135:11 pm
    by oats

    Reply

    I only have one real complaint about the article, the notion that Burke could end up being the 3rd point guard. I just don’t think that scenario is likely. Burke is a better point guard than Knight and projects as the better player, and it would be silly to insist on playing Knight as the backup point guard over Burke. If the team brought back Calderon so Burke can develop slowly, and they brought in a shooting guard to start over Knight, the way to get Knight plenty of playing time is to use more 3 guard lineups with Calderon or Burke, Knight, and the newly acquired shooting guard at the 3. It’s either that, or Burke cuts in to Knight’s minutes instead of the other way around.

    • Apr 29, 20135:48 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Agree. Knight as a PG, even a backup, makes no sense.

      • Apr 29, 20136:25 pm
        by sop

        Reply

        Knight can play. He’s pass first guard or even a pass second guard or a facilitator at all, but he had Tayshaun to fall back on for most of his career. Let him play next to Iguodala, who can distribute, and he would be very solid.

        • Apr 29, 20136:43 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          You aren’t actually arguing for Knight at point guard. You are arguing for Iggy at point guard and Knight at shooting guard, or you are arguing for a point guard by committee. I think he’d be ok in that scenario, but I don’t think he’d be all that good. He could definitely be the point guard in the way that Mario Chalmers is a point guard, but I really don’t think Iggy would be able to replicate LeBron and Wade. If the team isn’t adding 2 guys that can pass, I just don’t think Knight is good enough to be part of a two man point guard system centered on Iggy. He might get there, but he definitely hasn’t shown enough to justify that level of confidence in him. Plus that requires the team to hitch it’s wagon to Iggy, a player whose game is predicated on athleticism, is about to turn 30, and has already started to show signs of decline. I get liking Iggy because he’ll still be good for his next contract, but relying as heavily on him as you’d have to with Knight as the point guard is just not a great plan. Again, the weak point here is Knight not being good enough.

          • Apr 29, 20138:02 pm
            by sop

            How about Knight, Iggy and J-Smoov. I’d say this combo is > to chalmers, Wade, Lebron in 2 years when Wade’s joints finally go out for good. Smoov can almost equal Lebron athletically and both would make and insane improvement on D. $15mil for each should do the trick.

          • Apr 29, 20138:26 pm
            by oats

            Um, what? Knight and Chalmers are slightly similar as passers, but Chalmers is slightly better. Iggy and Wade are pretty much even. LeBron is so much better than Josh Smith that it is a terrible comparison to make. I also really, really hate the idea of Josh Smith playing for the Pistons. He could play small forward I guess, but do we want that? I don’t. Josh Smith flat out can’t shoot. He shoots about 32.5% outside of 3 feet from the hoop. With Monroe and Drummond already playing in that space near the hoop he will likely start shooting more jump shots. That is not a good idea. Smith is only effective when playing in the lane, which is why he is usually played at power forward. I wouldn’t spend $15 million on him. I wouldn’t even spend $10 million on him due to his terrible fit in Detroit.
             
            As for Iggy, I like him but not if it takes $15 million. I already pointed out most of why. Iggy is already declining. Iggy is also pretty limited as far as shooting ability. Outside of 3 feet Iggy shoots 32.1% this year, but I will admit this year was unusually bad for him. Still, given the fact that he’s a career 32.9% shooter on 3s I think Iggy is not a particularly good fit in Detroit. If he could be had for cheap he’d be worth, but like Smith I’d set that number in the $7-10 million range. His superior passing and ability to play both wing positions makes him more valuable than Smith, but I wouldn’t really break the bank for him just to try to come up with a way to make Knight in to a point guard. Why not spend that money on Teague, Jack, or Calderon and accept that Knight is a shooting guard? Then you don’t break the bank trying to force something, and they likely all could be had for less than Iggy or Smith. Plus, spending $30 million on Iggy and Smith will make it much tougher to afford Monroe after next year. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

          • Apr 29, 20138:30 pm
            by oats

            Also, you seem to be way undervaluing LeBron. LeBron plus scrubs can make a playoff push. Chalmers is pretty similar to Knight, and if Wade does decline that quickly I’d expect him to step up his production. But LeBron being so far and away the best player in the group skews everything in favor of the LeBron group.

          • Apr 30, 20138:13 am
            by G

            Knight, Iggy & Smoove would be a TERRIBLE shooting team. Really good defensively, but what does that offense look like? You would need Wade to SERIOUSLY deteriorate for that to happen (as in, Wade would have the ligaments of a WWII vet), and even then LeBron probably still gives them the edge. 

        • Apr 30, 20139:49 am
          by G

          Reply

          Btw – Tayshaun helped Knight’s PG play so much that they traded Tay for an actual PG so they could move Knight to SG. I know there were other reasons for that trade, but Knight had played PG a year & a half with Tayshaun without showing any signs he could carry the load at PG. Sliding a passing SG & a passing SF next to Knight isn’t enough to hide his deficiencies as a primary ball handler.

  • Apr 29, 20138:55 pm
    by Serge

    Reply

    i feel it’s simple, we have problems as sf sg and pg.
    So if we sign a good Sg/Sf or both , then we take burke ( so many names lurking that one of them is bound to work for the pistons)
    if we sign calderon or any pure pgs, then we draft the best sg/sf on the board ( anywhere from victor oladipo , d guy, to mackelmore, to (and hopefully not) muhammad)

    We’re good at pf/c
     

    • Apr 29, 20139:14 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      The draft comes before free agency though. Since we have no way of know who we will or won’t get in free agency you have to make that draft decision independent of free agency. I personally always say get the best player available, but when all things are even base it on fit. For example, I see Bennett as an undersized 4 that can get a few minutes at the 3, but I also have him rated much higher than Muhammad and would take Bennett over Muhammad every time. The team is also in a pretty ideal situation to employ that strategy since they have needs pretty much anywhere. I’d even argue that PF/C is still an area of need since the team has two starters and a few guys that I guess could be part of a rotation but are very easy to upgrade from. Obviously 3rd big man is a lesser need than starting perimeter player, but it is an area of need that should probably be addressed at some point this off season.

      • Apr 29, 20139:18 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        Darn use of we like I’m part of the organization… I actually don’t mind other people using it because sports teams try to sell themselves as belonging to fans, but I try not to use it. Still, it sometimes slips in when I’m not paying attention.

        • Apr 29, 201311:11 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I feel your pain. You have no idea how many comments I’ve gone back through and removed all the “we”s and “our”s.

          • Apr 30, 20138:17 am
            by G

            I made a comment on a prior post responding to a guy who was critical of using “we”. The short version is hardcore fans have more emotionally invested in the team, the team’s win is their win, etc., and so you see more “we, us & ours”. I’m ok with the occasional first-person plural slipping out, it’s a sign that I identify with my team.

  • May 18, 20135:26 pm
    by diehard pistons fan

    Reply

    all in all, we have to address the pistons’ biggest negative last season, which would be the 4 or 5 minute stretches they went without a bucket. not only that, but there was no one to rally behind as a leader when that happened. and when they would go on runs, turnovers and sloppy play would kill them.
    trey burke addresses all of these needs. he is a fierce competitor who has experience in the leadership role of a team, when michigan would be letting a lead slip away, burke would step up, take control, and provide a figure for the team to rally behind. he is a great ball handler, unlike brandon knight, and keeps his savvy in the big moments. he was also great in pick and rolls, which will blend nicely with andre drummond. 
    yes, he could have passed more, and yes his defense was lacking, but that is because he was michigan’s best scorer and depended upon too much to facilitate the game, as scoring was his number one priority. 
    and to be honest, the pistons’ stands were  EMPTY during just about every home game. he is already arguably the most famous player in the draft, and i think as a whole, drafting a kid who played and excelled right down the road is the obvious choice here

  • Jan 1, 20148:20 pm
    by ???

    Reply

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