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Piston of the Week: Charlie Villanueva

Piston of the Week (3/17/2013 – 3/23/2013): Greg Monroe Charlie Villanueva

8.3 points, 2.0 rebounds, one smug fourth quarter barrage while shooting 39 percent from 3-point range. 

I actively tried to pick someone new this week. I gave Rodney Stuckey a hard look after a solid week last week, but he laid a pair of eggs before playing well against the Bobcats. Jose Calderon was solid, but he also left a game with the flu, likely caught by being exposed to the toxicity of a 10-game losing streak.

Hell, there was even a part of me that thought it’s worth giving the award to Charlie Villanueva because he was the one who keyed the team to its first win since February of 1994.

So I did.

With my apologies to Greg Monroe, who put together a super strong week and has apparently found a knack for cooking the Miami Heat, your Piston of the Week is Charlie Villanueva.

He wasn’t the best, nor was he even good for most of the week, but Charlie V did something that no Pistons player has been able to do in the last 10 games — step up and be “the guy” when the team needs it in the fourth.

Admittedly, there haven’t been that many chances for the Pistons to take control of a game during the streak of terrible, but Charlie V scored 17 frickin’ points in the fourth quarter on Saturday.

He showed more life than he has in a month(s) and was, however dirty it sounds to say this, the best player on the floor during the Pistons’ fourth-quarter comeback. He’s a streaky player, we know that, but when those wild 3-pointers are going down, his whole game opens up.

It also helps that he’s a match-up nightmare for the Bobcats, who tried to throw a mix of post and perimeter defenders on him. However, those defenders didn’t really defend Charlie at all in the fourth quarter — which allowed for him to be the recipient of  multiple drive-and-kick passes for open 3-pointers.

Seriously, he had a SportsCenter-worthy dunk and the game winner on a layup that came, gasp, off a HUSTLE PLAY. That’s what kind of game it was, Charlie V was scoring from everywhere, posterizing dudes and hustling to make winning plays.

Yeah, it was the Bobcats, and yeah, lottery balls say it’s probably better for this team to lose every game, but there isn’t always value in losing — it really messes with a team’s psyche. There’s a weird balance between rooting to win and rooting for draft position, and tonight, Charlie V trolled the entire “tank!” community by playing arguably the best fourth quarter of any Pistons player this season.

There’s something admirable about a guy, struggling and buried on the bench in the midst of a 10-game losing streak, being able to come in and do something good. It shows that someone on the team hasn’t totally quit — which, unfortunately, is something that appears to have happened at times during the streak.

So, cheers to Charlie V, occasionally earning his big contract pennies at a time, even in the worst of times!

 

Past Winners

70 Comments

  • Mar 24, 20138:03 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    I find the selection of Villanueva very offensive. Yeah lets give full props to the guy that might of when the season is all said and done f**ked us out of a top 4 lottery spot. Where was he when we needed him at the start of the season. 

    • Mar 24, 201312:56 pm
      by Herman Neutic

      Reply

      I basically agree, gmehl, but Frank [whom I like] should have found a good reason to take CV out of the Bobcat game.

    • Mar 24, 201312:58 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Agreed. CV should be exiled for that hideuos display of excellence last night.

      He does nothing for 4 yrs when we need him, then decides to play like Rasheed in his prime when we actually need him to play bad for better lotto odds.

      Dispicable 

  • Mar 24, 20138:19 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Also losing night mess with a team’s psyche but fans that have been watching this team do the same thing at then end of every season are starting to get sick of these pointless wins at the end of the season. Where was the heart at the start of the year when we went on a massive losing streak. Us suffering Piston fans deserve better than what we have gone through and the one silver lining to this dreadful season can be kissed goodbye if we go on another pointless winning streak. Personally at this time of the season i couldn’t give a damn about the teams psyche cause more than likely 2 thirds of the team that played last night might not even be here next season. Maxiell, Villanueva, Stuckey, Bynum and Calderon could be elsewhere so the psyche is of no concern to me. Now i am reading at MLive that Drummond has been participating in practice and could return soon. The team needs to look at the long term situation here and kiss the season goodbye. I bet you that Frank ends up starting Drummond now that we all don’t want him to.

  • Mar 24, 20139:57 am
    by Travis

    Reply

    I think losing ten in a row was good enough. There’s no guarantee that a #4 pick will be more talented than a #8 pick next season. Case in point – Monroe, Knight & Drummond.

    Rooting for your hometown team to have a eleven game losing streak is very selfish and shows any understanding of what breaking a losing streak does for the players, coaches, ownership, ticket holders, and free agent prospects.

    Rooting for a team to lose–even if it means more lottery balls–is disgusting if you spend money on tickets and/or a league pass. It’s almost as saying: “Sure, you make millions of dollars, but go out tonight and make sure you are as competitive as the Washington Generals.”

    In fact, I’m rooting for the Stones to win the rest of the games this season, because I spent my hard-earned money on an NBA league pass and I want the Pistons to show me that they a have a strong worth-ethic. Asking for a player to give a half-ass performance is just plain un-American. 

    • Mar 24, 201310:51 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      How do people continue to lump in Knight with Monroe and Drummond in this regard? Knight could still vastly improve, but thus far he has not looked like a steal at all.

      And yes, there are no guarantees in the lottery. But there are odds. And the odds of getting a franchise player, a long-term game changer at 8 are much worse than at 4. 

      • Mar 24, 20131:48 pm
        by C-Foe

        Reply

        @Travis… Very well said!   You don’t want your team to have a mentality that says it’s okay to lose or not give your best effort because it’s hard to get rid of it.  It takes something special to get rid of that, see Chris Paul and the Clippers.  
        @tarsier…You are 100% correct when you say “there are no guarantees in the lottery”.  This is why I don’t agree with the “tanking” philosophy because worst record does not guarantee #1 pick (like in the NFL) and #1 pick does not guarantee instant success.  For all of the highlights and numbers that Kyrie Irving has generated, Cleveland is back in lottery…again.  John Wall and Washington, back in the lottery again.  I think the key phrase you used was “long-term game changer”.   We have to start thinking long term with any first round pick not just lottery picks because we are typically drafting teenagers/young adults and asking them to physically compete against men, seasoned veterans, and be successful immediately.
          As for Knight, he was viewed a steal only because he was slotted to go higher in that draft based on being a guard playing in a big conference.  It’s the same thing that happens every year.  Fans made judgements based upon one season, or a couple of tournament weeks, of college hoop hype and now Player X is deemed perfect for an NBA team.  That formula is typically a recipe for disappointment.

        • Mar 24, 20132:10 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          Scroll down a bit. Tarsier isn’t arguing the team should try to lose. He’s saying it’s beneficial for the team to lose because there is a higher probability they can get a good player, but he doesn’t want the team to try to lose. Trying to lose can be problematic. Being bad for a little while but increasing your team’s talent so they improve isn’t problematic. We’re talking a short jaunt to the bottom to acquire talent, not the prolonged awfulness and living in the shadows that the Clippers have suffered from. I’m not certain that it really took something all that special to turn them around though, they just needed to stop making bad decisions. Regardless, that is not the situation Detroit is looking at here. Between their cap space and the draft pick this year Detroit should make significant strides towards getting better.
           
          He’s right by the way, and pointing out the lottery is kind of a failed argument anyways. Only the first 3 picks are set by the lottery, and if your team isn’t picked you get slotted by their record. No, it isn’t quite a one to one relationship, but the general rule is worse record equals higher pick. This is especially true when talking about the difference from 8th worst record and 4th worst. The 8th worst team has less than a 10% chance for a top 3 pick, if they miss on the top 3 picks they end up picking no higher than 8th, and a 17.6% chance for picking 9 or below. The 4th worst has better than 37% chance of moving in to the top 3, can’t fall below 7, and has only a 17.2% chance of picking outside the top 5. It’s pretty clear the losing is beneficial in this scenario.

          • Mar 24, 20132:57 pm
            by tarsier

            I think he was referring to a 4th pick not necessarily being better than an 8th pick, not finishing 4th worst vs 8th worst.

            And while that’s true, the “not necessarily” is key.

            C-Foe, by and large, higher picks are and will continue to be better players. The fact that they aren’t necessarily is kinda irrelevant. That’s like saying the best team doesn’t necessarily win the championship. Does that mean a GM shouldn’t worry about trying to put together the best team because they might lose to an inferior one anyway? No! Because the best team has the best odds of winning.

            Play the odds and hope for the results. That’s all anyone can do. 

          • Mar 24, 20134:41 pm
            by oats

            C Foe brought up the lottery keeping it from being a guarantee that tanking will help as part of why he hates tanking. I then used the numbers 8 and 4 to illustrate why the argument didn’t really hold up because those numbers were used earlier and because they are in the range of where Detroit will finish. I didn’t make it that clear that was what I was doing though.
             
            I didn’t address the rest of it because it’s already been said. Probably a mistake since he was repeating the argument you already argued against, but it seemed a bit redundant and I decided to just focus on the new lottery aspect of the argument. But yeah, higher picks have a higher chance of getting a good player and it’s up to your team to use that resource wisely. Pointing out other team’s being incompetent doesn’t actually lessen the value of that pick. 
             
            I seem to have neglected his point about the top pick though. Washington has made some rather questionable decisions since getting the top pick. Taking Vesely was pretty dumb. Deciding to use their cap space to absorb bad contracts was also pretty dumb. They are still bad because they make more mistakes than not.
             
            Cleveland’s still bad because they haven’t had much time to try to reload. It takes a few years for the team to marinate before they get good. They have a bunch of picks coming in the next couple years so a few years after they get used to playing together that team should be good. They might bungle it up, but again that doesn’t actually disprove the strategy and would just mean that they didn’t utilize it well.
             
            The first year with Durant was bad enough to get Westbrook, and the first with Durant and Westbrook was bad enough for the Thunder to pick 3rd and get Harden. Detroit is in a slightly different scenario since the rebuild is partially done with both Drummond and Monroe already in house. This is more like when the Thunder added Harden because the rebuild has been under way for awhile instead of Cleveland or Washington just beginning their rebuild. No, Drummond and Monroe aren’t Durant and Westbrook good, but the team happens to have cap space to further make improvements and that can help get them there. The team probably won’t be a true contender until Drummond starts to hit his peak, but they can make the leap to respectable now.

          • Mar 25, 20131:07 pm
            by C-Foe

            Hey Tarsier,  you are right about the potential talent level of lottery picks.  No debate from me.  My point is that from a fan’s POV, there is this thought that a lottery pick, especially the #1, equals instant success the next season and most times it doesn’t.  Also, with many of these one and done college players, they will probably leave the team right around the time they find their place in the NBA. 
               So yes, a GM should try to put together the best team possible, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a team full of high lottery picks. 

  • Mar 24, 201312:16 pm
    by Jacob

    Reply

    If you want the pistons to lose then stop posting on this site go root for another team.(or bitch about them constantly) Tarsier is so smart though. This guy knows everything about the NBA and how do build a team bla bla bla Knight is the worst player ever bla bla bla Y”OU ARE A DICK BRO stop acting like youre better than everyone

    • Mar 24, 201312:28 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      Holy crap that was unwarranted. Here’s a hint, the dick is probably the guy who misstates someone’s position, calls someone names for no apparent reason, and is upset just because someone disagrees with you. Get over yourself. I know that was directed at me, but go bring that BS someplace else and never say anything here again.

    • Mar 24, 20131:58 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I root for the Pistons to win… championships. Not meaningless games in a lost season.

      Also, Knight does not have to be the worst player ever, or even a bad player, to not be a steal at 8th overall.

      To be a steal there, he’d probably have to make a couple all-star games. That seems like a very attainable level for Monroe and Drummond. Heck, they could each end up being the best player in their draft class. I don’t see such lofty achievements in the cards for Knight.

      But I’ll continue to hope I’m wrong. 

      • Mar 24, 20133:27 pm
        by Shawn

        Reply

        What would make Knight a steal is him being compared favorably with those drafted before him (and to some degree after him).  He has a quick first step and excellent athleticism but is also a very smart kid.  If he were in this current draft there is no doubt in my mind that he would go very high.  Most likely higher than the current swing players being considered because of those aforementioned qualities. 
        If you compare him to the players taken ahead of him only Kyrie Irving is considered a far and away superior player, with that said there are some who question if Kyrie really is all that better than Knight because of his injury history and moderately affective defense.  While Kemba is also very good there is little consensus that he is better than Knight.
        Joe D has a good approach to the draft.  He gets excellent quality for the position he drafts at (minus Darko).  In this draft it might be better to draft in the middle of the lottery because there is no clear cut exceptional talent.  In the past this has worked to Joe D’s advantage much like the other drafts in which he got Monroe, Drummond and Knight.

        • Mar 24, 20133:34 pm
          by G

          Reply

          I don’t see him being favorably compared to guys drafted before or after him at all. Last night was a good example: Kemba Walker has been significantly better than Knight all year. Valanciunas, Klay Thompson, Biyombo, Kenneth Faried, Irving, Kanter, and others… all better.

        • Mar 24, 20133:55 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          In a draft redo Irving and Tristan Thompson absolutely have to go ahead of him. The Irving possibly coming after him is preposterous, no experts agree with that stance and it is pretty much only coming from Brandon Knight fan boys. Kanter and Valanciunas have produced less, but on a per minute basis they are outplaying him. Considering they were considered project big men, I bet they still go ahead of Knight. Biyombo is slightly behind Knight on a per minute basis, but he was also the rawest prospect and he isn’t all that far behind. Biyombo would likely go ahead of Knight. Kemba Walker is a little debatable due to his age and defense, but Walker has been the better player and actually has a chance to play the point while it looks increasingly unlikely Knight will be able to do so. Leonard, Vucevic, and Faried all clearly would jump him in a draft redo. Klay Thompson probably jumps him as well since he has a clearly defined role while Knight is largely a question mark as a combo guard. In a draft redo Knight probably goes somewhere between 7 and 11, so no he is not a steal at 8. I’d rank him 11th by the way, but he was drafted pretty much where he belongs in the grand scheme of things.
           
          By the way, if Joe is excellent at finding quality for his draft position, wouldn’t that mean not having a clear cut exceptional talent wouldn’t hinder him any? Your arguments seem to be working against each other there.

          • Mar 25, 20137:56 pm
            by Shawn

            I didn’t exactly say that Triston would come after Knight.  In fact I didn’t say this at all.  Big men projects are generally considered more valuable on draft day.  So, it’s reasonable that all of those bigs were chosen before Knight.  However, when compared to other wing players in that draft, outside of Kyrie Irving, I don’t think there are any that are considered by everyone to be better than Knight.  
            The big men in front of Knight were a project and so is Knight.  He is learning the point guard position.  This has to be why Calderon is here; to mentor Knight. So, thankfully the Piston front office doesn’t share the short sightedness I tend to here from Knight bashers. 
            Knight was excellent value for the spot he was taken at.  Frankly, he should have went much higher and was expected to do so by most draft prognosticators.  The fact that there is such a dearth of quality big men in the NBA probably has a lot to do with why the bigs in that draft were valued so high.  There is little evidence that it had anything to do with Knight.
            This is why he is considered a steal for that draft.  Also, it is difficult to compare the output of a power forward (Tristan Thompson) with a point guard (Brandon Knight)  when neither are finished products and have different responsibilities on the floor but it is generally excepted that the point guard is more important and a harder position to fill.
             

          • Mar 25, 201310:25 pm
            by oats

            First of all, I didn’t say you put Thompson behind him. I was just explaining where Knight goes in a draft redo, and then I listed the guys that would or likely would go ahead of him. In order for him to be a steal he has to actually higher in a redone draft. That’s what a steal in the draft is. My argument was that not only would Knight not jump much at all, he might actually slip. Your method of defining a steal is literally incomprehensible to me. It doesn’t matter how he does versus other perimeter players, it matters how he does versus players in any position. Because of that, there is absolutely no way that he can be a steal. It means he was drafted more or less appropriately. 
             
            Knight was projected to go higher only because there were some teams that really wanted a point guard and he was the second point guard on the board. Those teams decided to go in a different direction, and they’ve almost all been proven correct. He was tied to Utah, but Kanter is better than Knight. He was tied to Toronto, but it appears Valanciunas was the correct decision. He was tied to Sacramento, and they actually blew it by making a really confusing move and getting Jimmer Fredette later instead. However, the team that traded up got Biyombo in that spot, and he is at least a similar prospect to Knight at this point. Considering that was pick 7, getting Knight at 8 was still not a steal. I should also note that most of those prognosticators had Knight in the 7-9 range on their big board of players, they just thought someone would reach for him to fill a hole a point guard. Being projected higher in the draft does not make him a steal when he was rated right where Detroit took him.
             
            It’s complete BS to say you can’t compare PFs to PGs. You totally can. Thompson does his job well, Knight has been a bad starting point guard, so Thompson is better. Done and done. It is also not accepted wisdom that point guards are either more important or harder to fill. There are tons of young point guards that have come in to the league lately, and most of them became adequate starters immediately. In fact the entire reason big men are rated higher on draft day is that quality big men are harder to find than quality perimeter players. The reason for that is simple, there are just fewer guys with the size to be NBA big men.
             
            Your assertion that he does well for perimeter players is kind of strange anyways. Irving and Kawhi Leonard are clearly better than him and everyone agrees with that. It might not be quite unanimous, but I’d bet most NBA teams would place Klay Thompson well ahead of him too. Irving is the only definite perimeter player that was drafted above him. Vesely is a bit of a combo forward, so maybe you could count him. So, Knight was either the 2nd or 3rd perimeter player taken, and is the 3rd or 4th best of them. I think Vesely was drafted to be a power forward, and I have Thompson ahead of him so I’d say he was the 2nd perimeter player taken and the 4th best one. Even using the most favorable numbers he was the 3rd chosen and the 3rd best. That’s not a steal. A steal implies he was drafted too late, but once again that means he was drafted at more or less an appropriate place in the draft. 
             
            I seriously don’t think Calderon is here to mentor Knight on the point. Have you heard Dumars talk about wanting Calderon back, or saying how nice it is having a true point guard out there? I think Dumars sees himself in Knight, and that means he doesn’t see someone he has to turn into a point guard. I think Calderon’s coming to Detroit signals that Dumars sees Knight primarily as an off ball player that can run the offense for a short stretch at a time. In short, I think the Knight at point guard experiment is over.

        • Mar 24, 20134:24 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I’m not among those who see Walker as particularly better than Knight. I didn’t Walker at all on draft night and he’s been about what I expected. Knight has been disappointing, so now they’re basically a toss-up in my mind.

          But the only guy Knight definitely jumps in a draft redo is Vesely. There are lots of guys before and after him for whom you could make a case either way. But to be a steal, you would definitely have to go higher in a redo.

          Incidentally, of the 2011 redo drafts I can find online (they are generally from last summer so don’t take into account this season–which can only help Knight relative to guys like Leonard, Valanviunas, and Vucevic), Knight never moves up in the draft:

          http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/3/21/2891790/espns-david-thorpe-attempts-re-do-of-2011-nba-draft
          http://mettachronicles.com/hindsight-is-2020-the-2011-nba-redraft/
          http://www.thesportsbank.net/nba-draft-stock-report/2011-nba-draft-re-do-2012-hindsight/ 

          He gets taken 12, 8, and 8 in those. So it’s not like he looked a total bust (which I have never claimed either). But clearly not a steal, as Drummond and Monroe definitely were.

          • Mar 24, 20136:14 pm
            by oats

            I’m rather ambivalent about the Knight/Walker comparison. Coming down on either side makes a good deal of sense to me. I’m leaning towards Walker, but I don’t even particularly want to defend that position because the arguments for Knight seem just as valid to me.
             
            I suspect someone will tell me that if it’s that close I should choose the Pistons player. I’ve seen them do that in the past with arguments like this, so maybe acknowledging it will save them the trouble. Don’t get me wrong here, I like Knight better because he’s on my team. I don’t think that’s a particularly valid argument though. Maybe I’m over correcting in my attempts to be objective, but I’d slightly prefer it if the team went the other direction with that pick. Eh, whatever…

  • Mar 24, 201312:20 pm
    by Jacob

    Reply

    Also who are we getting by tanking Otto porter? Nothing special. I hate tanking. Travis is 100% right. Nothing good ever comes from being the worst you can be at anything in life ever!!!!! I honestly can’t believe this shit. This losing streak was embarrassing.

    • Mar 24, 201312:35 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I don’t think the Pistons are tanking. And I certainly hope they are not. That would be unacceptable (except on the level of being extra cautious with bringing injured guys back). But I am still rooting for them to lose, because that would be better for them going forward.

      • Mar 24, 201312:41 pm
        by oats

        Reply

        Agreed. There is a difference between the team actually tanking and fans rooting for losing. I don’t want them to stop trying to win, but being cautious with injuries and maybe giving a little extra minutes to Middleton over Stuckey wouldn’t be so bad. The guys on the court should totally try to win, I just hope they fail.

    • Mar 24, 201312:35 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      So much wrong with this comment too. Otto Porter is one of the highest rated prospects in the draft. I don’t know what you don’t like about Porter, but considering your idiocy demonstrated in these two comments I don’t really care why you don’t like Porter.
       
      Travis is not right, like at all. Tarsier already adequately gave a rebuttal based on common sense to all of Travis’s points. If tarsier wasn’t right, then actually come up with an argument against him instead of going off on stupid personal attacks. Learn to talk like an adult.
       
      I get that you don’t like tanking. That doesn’t change the points tarsier made. Plus, if nothing good comes from tanking, then explain all the teams that tanked and then turned their franchise around.  The Thunder tanked, got Russell Westbrook, James Harden, and Kevin Durant with high draft picks. The Celtics tanked, then used their high pick to trade for Ray Allen, which then convinced Kevin Garnett to accept a trade to Boston. The Spurs had a few injured players so they tanked, drafted Tim Duncan and have been good ever since. There are tons of examples of smart teams tanking and getting better. The NBA rewards tanking, so get over yourself.

      • Mar 24, 20131:03 pm
        by Mark

        Reply

        I dont want to get involved in this little scuffle lol,  but Porter is nothing special, imo. He’s going to be good, but more in that Tayshaun-in-his-prime caliber than any kind of star.

        The only perimeter players I see with true star potential are McLemore and Shabazz. We need to stay in the top 4-5 and we’ll have a good chance to get one of them.

        This season was a mess from start to finish. If we end up only getting another 7-9 pick after all this, its going to be very disappointing

        • Mar 24, 20131:18 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          I disagree about Porter. I think he’ll be better than Prince. Prince at his best was a 4th option, or maybe a 3rd. I think Porter can be a 2nd option. He’s just a better shooter than Tayshaun, and that added range just makes him a better player. The fact that he might be only the third best player on the team behind Drummond and Monroe is just gravy, if those three can reach their prime then the team has a strong foundation to build on.
           
          I also strongly disagree on Shabazz. His 3 point shooting percentage has been steadily dropping all season, and I’m not certain his post game will translate particularly well to the next level. He looks like an inefficient chucker, and I don’t like that type of player very much. He might get points, but he’ll jack up a lot of shots to do it. He also doesn’t do much outside of score. His rebounding is nothing special, and actually pretty poor for a small forward. He can’t pass, like at all. His defense is ok I guess, but I don’t know if he’s quite quick enough to be good at defending the 2 or big enough to be good defending the 3. Plus, it turns out he’s actually 20 and his dad may have been lying about his age to help him get recruited. Just a bizarre story. I wouldn’t touch Muhammad in the top 5. I have him rated way behind Porter and Oladipo even. I honestly don’t think I’d take Muhammad anywhere in the top 10. There’s always tons of high volume, low efficiency scorers so there is no need to take them that high.
           
          If the team drops to 7-9 then I’m prepared for Burke. By the way, I even like Burke better than Muhammad.

          • Mar 24, 20139:01 pm
            by gmehl

            Another thing people forget about a guy like Porter is that even though he might not be the best player available he is the kind of guy that will instantly make all the other guys he plays with better. He is kind of the anti-Muhammad as he does a little bit of everything. Personally i’m hoping we are able to draft Oladipo but feel as if Porter would be an even better fit. The only problem is that Porter because of his game type is a fit with any team that doesn’t have a quality starting SF.

            In regards to my original comments in this story (post 1 & 2) i by no means said that guys should not give 100% effort during a game and to tank. I was just acknowledging that a pointless win like this is like force feeding us a sh!t sandwich after the crappy basketball we’ve had to endure throughout this season. Yes we might need a star player in the draft like all bad teams do but a guy like Porter or Oladipo could be that guy that could tie in the special talents we have in Monroe, Drummond, Knight and take this team up another level. For example Muhammad might end up being a scorer in the mould of a young Tracy McGrady but might not help us at all whereas the other 2 guys make everyone else click. Another example of this is to look at how Faried makes the Nuggets a better team. We have got good talent on our team but its just a matter of getting the right mix and unfortunately for us the 2 best guys might be gone when we pick if we keep on winning pointless games all so we can smile today and frown tomorrow. Finally i get the feeling that the guys that don’t want us to tank are the fans that don’t follow every game like us true die hard fans. We are not stupid and recognize that even though losing sux its a short term pain for a long term gain kind of situation. I hate losing as much as anyone but if it means sacrificing 10-12 games of this season to get better then so be it. Heck i say we reward CV as the starting PF after his effort last night.

          • Mar 25, 201310:50 am
            by Huddy

            People keep talking about tanking as if it has to mean telling guys to miss shots or intentionally turning the ball over.  All the fans that are looking for high draft position really want to see if putting guys on the floor like Slava, Middleton, English to give it their all and try their hardest, which lowers our chance of winning, but lets us see their value.  We spent all season hiding them on the bench and now we have a chance to let them play big minutes in games that ultimately benefit us more to lose.  Slavas money isn’t guaranteed and any of those guys that we are unsure where fit in our future have a chance to show us (this may even go for JJ too).  There is nothing wrong with that people just need to stop acting like hoping for a high draft pick means they don’t want players to TRY its just that this time is much more useful to us in trying out our young guys and not risking injury to our important pieces.
             
            In addition, to the question of “who are we even tanking for?” even if you don’t like Porter and I don’t know why you wouldn’t regardless of your personal opinion of specific players the higher the pick the better your chances to get good players.  There is clearly nothing better about picking later because even if the guy you want isn’t projected top 5 there are options like trading down to get even more value available so what is the point of acting like it is stupid to want a high pick?

  • Mar 24, 201312:23 pm
    by Piston moribund

    Reply

    You cant really blame charlie for doing well or sign a big contract.  He is just minion in this folly.  Do you guys really expect someone who has been teased his entire life to roll over after all that he has achieved. Good for him still playing hard.  Accept the reality that this team is awful then everything and this is really about entertainment.  Its still sometime nice to watch a team win despite the whinning.

  • Mar 24, 20131:04 pm
    by Venice

    Reply

    I really hope that if we can’t trade stuckey and Charlie v next season,we can resign them for about 3yrs/10-12mil .we really need the skill set of Charlie v and we should stop experimenting stuckey at 2.he is much better suited at pg. if we can find a SG that can be in bench and will stretch the floor for usi, our bench would be great. 

    I still believe that Knight is our pg of the future. Being a hardworker that he is, He will learn how to properly play at the point. If we can sign Mayo this offseason. and draft Porter , starting lineup would be set to go.  

    • Mar 24, 20131:36 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      For all that talk about his hard work, Knight made absolutely no improvement at running the point from last year. I’m just not seeing it, and there are tons of hard workers that never become starting caliber NBA point guards. He hasn’t shown he has the natural ability to justify believing his hard work will turn him into a starting point guard. He’s a quality defender and a solid shooter. That is fine if he is a shooting guard. He’s also a sloppy ball handler, doesn’t have a knack for setting up his team, and he makes bad decisions with his passes. In short, he doesn’t get many assists and he turns it over a lot. That is something you can largely hide by taking him off ball, but that is a huge problem at the point. Shooting guard is just a refinement of his skills, but point guard requires him to add a skill set that doesn’t come naturally to him.
       
      Even if you are just that convinced that Knight should be the point guard of the future, why should he start while developing? He’s a bad starting point guard. If that’s really the goal, why not add a veteran to start for a year or two while Knight develops and backs him up? He can work on his skills while not also hurting the team in a starting role. Bad starting point guard play makes it harder for every other player to focus on what they need to do.

  • Mar 24, 20131:15 pm
    by Ryank

    Reply

    Charlie V, the player of the week.  This is disgusting, an embarrassment, and a major blow to the creditability of this board.  A player who can occasionally hit a 3 point shot while giving up 3-5 baskets for each one he makes defensively…  Unless CV goes out there and doesn’t miss a single shot, he is hurting the team every time he gets on the court.  He is the exact opposite of what is needed to make a team playoff caliber. 
     
    He’s 6-11, but might as well be 6-3 the way he plays.  He’ll chuck up those outside shots then give his man a high percentage shot every time on the other end.  You might as well play Brandon Knight at power forward…at least he’s tougher, a better shooter.  With Brandon Knight guarding 6-10 power forwards, you don’t lose anything defensively and he’ll probably get more rebounds.  CV never gets posterized like Knight did because he’s never there contesting a shot at the rim.
     
    CV for player of the week.  This is the dumbest post I’ve seen in a long time.

    • Mar 24, 20133:16 pm
      by G

      Reply

      You clearly didn’t watch the game. CV hustled, ran out on screens, got tough rebounds & defended well. He drilled some big-time shots, and not all of them were threes. Without him, the Pistons would be sitting on an 11-game losing streak right now. If he played every game like he did last night, he’d be my favorite player. Unfortunately he only does that once or twice a year.

      • Mar 24, 20133:56 pm
        by Ryank

        Reply

        You just made my point for me.  Once or twice per season he has a positive impact on the game.  The rest of the time he’s clearly having a negative impact.  I didn’t watch last night’s game, but I’ve seen CV during his entire tenure with the Pistons.  The notion he should somehow get recognition for anything he’s done with the team is sickening.  He’s worthless.

        • Mar 24, 20134:02 pm
          by oats

          Reply

          Player of the Week is not a cumulative achievement, but rather a recognition how someone played over this one week.

          • Mar 24, 20135:22 pm
            by Ryank

            So the fact that he damages this team the other 51 weeks of the year don’t matter? 

          • Mar 24, 20135:26 pm
            by oats

            Yep.

    • Mar 24, 20135:53 pm
      by Brady Fredericksen

      Reply

      You’re obviously missing the point, RyanK. I understand everyone wishes these guys would just not show up to the arena, and that Lawrence Frank would intentionally lose games so that the franchise gets better lottery odds, but there’s more to it than that.

      If we’re talking about POSITIVE things that happen in a week, Charlie V was it, the ONLY it. I’m sorry that Frank isn’t playing to be fired, which likely ends his NBA head coaching career and I also apologize that those darn Pistons just won’t quit trying to play and win this child’s game they call a career — shame on the Pistons for playing basketball competitively! They should just mail it in so ornery fans on message boards are happy!

      It’s possible to not do your job when you’re slapping together Big Macs or peddling Red Bull and gasoline as a career, but when you’re a public figure making millions of dollars, you’ve gotta at least try — and again, I totally apologize that Charlie Villanueva finally did something better than anyone on the team this week and that I just HAD to write about it.
       

      • Mar 24, 20139:01 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        I like your sass, Brady. Nice to see it from a new guy. You’re 100 percent right.

        And also, just so we’re clear — if RyanK thinks you lack credibility or we as a site do, that’s actually a compliment to us. 

  • Mar 24, 20138:27 pm
    by picknroll

    Reply

    I can certainly see your logic for picking Charlie but for us frustrated Piston fans it is tough to swallow!  I can see a late bunch of wins for this team and it is discouraging that we have had such a dud of a season not to be picking in the top 3 or 4!  I honestly think we may pick as high as 9th or 10th when all is said and done!!  Every day another team is ‘shutting’ someone down.  Toronto is the latest as they contemplate keeping Rudy Gay out of action for the remaining games.   

    • Mar 24, 20138:58 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Sitting Gay might actually help the Raptors win games. He’s been awful since they traded for him.

  • Mar 24, 20139:45 pm
    by Trent

    Reply

    I know our main topic of discussion is our draft chances and choices but where do we stand on CV? He is, if I’m not mistaken, the last player we can use our amnesty on. Do we use it for another 8mil of cap space? Do we try and unload his expiring contract for a better role player? Or do we just let him play out his contract and let the door hit him on the way out? He still represents that awful offseason which set us back 5years but did manage to get us Dre, Moose and BK7.

    Whats our move?
     

    • Mar 24, 20139:56 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      As much as i’d like us to amnesty him so we can move on i think the smart money might be on us keeping him and then trading him mid-season to a team looking to save payroll. That team will basically be renting him for half a season for his expiring contract. The key for us will be what/who we can get for him. I am hoping we can get a decent glue guy and a late 1st rounder so it can offset the loss of the one we lost in off loading Ben Gordon. I guess it will depend on who Joe is looking at signing in the offseason as by memory you can only amnesty a player in the offseason but i’m not 100% sure.

      • Mar 24, 201310:43 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        But, if the Pistons amnesty him, that option is still available to trade his empty cap room to someone who wants that. If they want an expiring deal that can actually suit up, the Pistons will still have that in Stuckey. More options, more flexibility. There is no excuse to not amnesty CV.

  • Mar 24, 201310:08 pm
    by Trent

    Reply

    I think with that plan it will also give us the option of keeping him all season as well. He may be productive as our stretch four off the bench or he cover for an injury. I just hope that he can keep his head straight in the offseason as we seem to be building a solid team above the shoulders. Guys that want to work hard, learn and build something together so the last thing we need amongst our young smart kids is a lazy, disruptive vet and i think the same goes for Stuck.

    In regards to our ‘tanking’ is it not only playing ourselves in to a possible better pick but also playing Frank out of a job? I understand our lack or progress last season with the lockout etc but i dont see many plausible excuses for our capitulation this season. Is moving Frank on a smart decision or does he deserve to keep working our young group? Brian Hill is great but I would love to see somebody like Lambier, Hakeem or Ewing come in as a senior assistant to help Moose and Dre become the dominant bigs they can be.

    • Mar 24, 201310:37 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Its a bit late now but i wouldn’t of mind Lindsey Hunter. I feel he would of ben a good coach for Knight but i guess unless it depends on how things pan out with Phoenix. Also anyone that stares down a player like this is great in my books: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmri0QZYKks

      Bring back the lead pitbull i say! 

  • Mar 24, 201310:59 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    Who would trade Greg Monroe for John Wall!?

    • Mar 25, 20139:24 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I wouldn’t. Knight, sure. Monroe, no.

    • Mar 25, 201310:59 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      not the wizards so its pointless to ask

      • Mar 25, 201311:00 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        didnt scroll down enough someone beat me to it but still true

  • Mar 24, 201311:25 pm
    by Trent

    Reply

    not the wizards….

  • Mar 24, 201311:31 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Moving onto to next year, does anyone think Eric Maynor is worth going after for a starting point guard?

    • Mar 25, 201312:30 am
      by oats

      Reply

      Not as a starter. I don’t think he’s done enough to think he’ll be a competent starter just yet. He’s looked pretty bad since his injury, although his time in Portland has been better. I admit I’ve not seen much of him there, just his stats. In OKC post injury he looked a bit slow, and his assist to turnover ratio has dropped quite a bit this year. If the team brings back Calderon and doesn’t add a point guard in the draft then I’d like Maynor as the back up. Hopefully he could turn into a starter in a year or two, but if not he should be a competent back up. He is already 25 and therefor relatively close to hitting his peak. That suggests he won’t ever morph into a really good starter, but he could get up to an average one. Not exactly a home run, but he could be a useful piece on a good team.

  • Mar 25, 20139:04 am
    by Eric

    Reply

    Great April Fool’s Day prank.  I see how you did that a week early.  Very funny stuff.  Now who was the real Piston of the week?

  • Mar 25, 20131:22 pm
    by Travis

    Reply

    The best of the tanking comments:

    ” Finally i get the feeling that the guys that don’t want us to tank are the fans that don’t follow every game like us true die hard fans.”
    -gmehl

    “But I am still rooting for them to lose, because that would be better for them going forward.
    -tarsier

    “I don’t want to live on this planet anymore”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5mLjKI968g 

    • Mar 25, 20133:52 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Travis, I want to consider your mentality. So please do explain. What do you think the Pistons would gain by winning several games over the remainder of this season? Why do you think that piling up a few extra losses would not help them for next season and beyond?

      Is it the idea that they can somehow carry some mystical “momentum” from the end of this season into the beginning of the next one, about 6 months later, even though it will probably be a significantly different set of players suiting up then?
      Is it the idea that the players are so emotionally frail that losing a bunch of games this year will put them in a state of mind that they will be at a severe disadvantage moving forward, doomed to lose forever because of the outcome of the remaining 11 games?
      Is it that the idea of a fan wanting his team to lose sickens you so much that you would rather endure more future losing beside people who want to win every game rather than more future winning beside people who want to lose when strategically advantageous?
      Is it just that you greatly prefer immediate gratification over more gratification, but of the type that you have to wait for?
      Is it that you don’t honestly believe more losses would, on average, net the Pistons a better player in the draft?
      Is it that you think two or three more wins or losses would be the difference between whether a FA would be willing to come to Detroit or not?
      Or is it something else entirely? If so, what?

      Since you clearly hate our comments so much, please explain your perspective. 

      • Mar 25, 20135:46 pm
        by C-Foe

        Reply

        Hey Tarsier,  I’ll share my views.   I don’t have a problem with competing and losing and getting a high draft pick, which implies that the team went into a game with a mentality to compete and win but wasn’t good enough.   I have a problem with tanking which means the team went into a game with a mentality to lose if it’s close enough to possibly increase draft position.  It’s a matter of integrity…so I’m more of a fundamentalist, by your definition.  
         I understand the excitement around getting a “long term game changer” with a high draft pick, like Durant or Westbrook.  As I mentioned earlier, that draft pick may not help immediately since more and more are coming out of college after one year.  It’s possible that by the time he figures out the NBA game, he is with another team helping them win with the time we invested in him.   So then are we back to tanking again? 

        • Mar 25, 20137:40 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Name a couple long-term game changers that took more than 5 years to figure out the NBA game and had changed teams by then.

          I suppose that can happen with decent players like Afflalo. But stars tend to be evident in the first couple seasons. 

          • Mar 25, 20138:45 pm
            by C-Foe

                I agree that stars tend to be evident in the first couple of seasons.  It usually takes them no more than 3 years if there aren’t a lot of changes in the organization.  However, in the context of the original discussion of tanking to get a higher lottery pick, most lottery draft picks are not and will not become stars.    Again, I don’t disagree with getting a high lottery draft pick and that there is a higher probability that he will be a star and change the Pistons.  I just don’t want it at the expense of creating a mentality that it’s okay to lose for this purpose.

          • Mar 25, 20139:21 pm
            by tarsier

            I agree that players shouldn’t ever be playing to lose. Not because it instills some sort of losing mentality but because it would be kinda fraudulent to the fans in attendance. But I am fine with a GM trading to tank. And I am fine with a coach using lineups with the future in mind a lot more than the present. And I really don’t get the opposition to fans wanting to see a loss. Because that doesn’t even affect the game.

          • Mar 26, 201312:32 pm
            by C-Foe

            Tarsier. Cool, I respect your opinions.  To me if a coach or GM wants to give the younger players more time then that’s not tanking to me that’s player evaluation.  So I think the use of the work “tanking” has been taken out of context in this thread that’s all.
             

      • Mar 25, 20136:31 pm
        by Travis

        Reply

        Tarsier – My perspective is pretty clear. Don’t tank, compete, win games, go into the 2013 off-season feeling positive as fans, and let the chips land where they fall in the draft.

        If Frank wants to give the rookies more minutes and lose a few games in the name of development, so be it.

        But by no means, do I, nor will I cheer for a Pistons loss. If I did, I wouldn’t be setting a good example for my sons who are active in sports and as their coach. If you, or anyone else roots for a home team to lose, that’s for you to justify, not me.

        • Mar 25, 20137:14 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          That fact is clear. But I am asking why. I gave possible reasons for why. Whatever yours is may be one I hadn’t considered. I am asking what your reason is. Is it that hard to defend your position? Or is it literally that you don’t have any reason? Do you just have ideas that you cling to with absolutely no foundation for the heck of having them?

        • Mar 25, 20137:43 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Looking at the big picture is setting a bad example for your children? So you want them to grow up only ever considering the here and now and never what future consequences our present actions may have? Is that what you are saying?

    • Mar 25, 20133:53 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Gmehl, they could follow every game but just have a more shortsighted perspective. Or, they could just be further toward fundamentalism in their worldviews compared to my tendency toward consequentialism. Fundamentalists think that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. And that’s all there is to it. Consequentialists believe the best way of doing things is whatever will net the most positive outcome. In other words, closer to a “the ends justify the means” mentality.

      • Mar 25, 20135:13 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Its not even worth getting angry about tasier. You know what they say ‘you can’t argue with an idiot’

        • Mar 25, 20137:16 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I just don’t think they’re actually idiots. I think they just have different priorities. So I know how best to relate to them, I am trying to suss out what those priorities may be.

  • Mar 26, 201312:25 pm
    by Huddy

    Reply

    The tanking argument is dumb.  If you are breaking it down to getting on someone’s case for who they are rooting for while they watch the game from their own home you have to much time on your hands.  The main idea is if the team loses most of its last 10 games in an 82 game season and it helps their draft prospects then its a silver lining and a way for fans to stay interested in teams even in long strings of bad season (Lions).  I don’t care if you root for a loss or if you stop wearing your lucky socks on game days, but if you are less mad about a Pistons loss at this point in the season because it might help us long term you aren’t a bad fan you are just having a glass half full attitude, which is fine.

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