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Maxiell, Knight absent in blowout loss to Spurs

Detroit Pistons 75 Final

Recap | Box Score

114 San Antonio Spurs
Jason Maxiell, PF 16 MIN | 0-2 FG | 1-2 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 1 PTS | -11Tonight, Jason Maxiell only had one point in 16 minutes of play, while racking up four fouls. He didn’t have any turnovers, which is the only thing that gives him a passing grade.
Greg Monroe, C 30 MIN | 6-13 FG | 4-4 FT | 8 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 16 PTS | -33In 30 minutes, Monroe almost got a double-double, but had a relatively low shooting percentage for a big man and turned the ball over four times.
Jose Calderon, PG 28 MIN | 6-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 14 PTS | -30Calderon played a mediocre game, but the thing stopping him from getting a higher grade was the two assists he had. He was brought in to Detroit to get the ball to the big men, and that’s not what he did tonight. He did shoot well, however.
Brandon Knight, PG 36 MIN | 3-14 FG | 1-3 FT | 6 REB | 6 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 8 PTS | -25Brandon Knight played another horrid game, going 3-14 from the field and 1-6 from three point range. Although he had six assists, he countered that with three turnovers.
Kyle Singler, SG 24 MIN | 2-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 5 PTS | -21Singler played 23 minutes tonight, took a lot of shots and didn’t make many of them. He went 2-10 from the field and had two turnovers.
Charlie Villanueva, PF 25 MIN | 4-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 10 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 10 PTS | -19Villanueva was one of the only Pistons to not have an awful game tonight. He got a double-double and didn’t shoot too poorly. He played alright on defense, too. Nothing spectacular, but enough to make a good impression.
Jonas Jerebko, PF 18 MIN | 3-9 FG | 4-4 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 10 PTS | -6Jerebko didn’t play a ton tonight, but while he was on the floor he shot below average, had two turnovers and three fouls. He won’t earn himself more playing time if he continues to play like this.
Khris Middleton, SF 16 MIN | 1-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -13Tonight, Middleton showed Lawrence Frank why he doesn’t play a lot. In his 15 minutes of playing time, he shot 20% from the field and had four personal fouls.
Viacheslav Kravtsov, C 7 MIN | 1-1 FG | 1-3 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 3 PTS | -9Kravtsov barely saw the court tonight, but in his short stint out there he didn’t miss a shot and grabbed five rebounds. He would’ve made a bigger impact had he played more.
Will Bynum, PG 11 MIN | 2-3 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 6 PTS | -2Bynum also didn’t play a lot tonight, but was efficient in the scoring department while playing. He did have four turnovers, however.
Rodney Stuckey, PG 19 MIN | 0-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -18In 19 minutes, Rodney Stuckey made absolutely no impact. He went 0-5 from the floor and that’s about it. Not many bright spots tonight for Stuckey.
Kim English, SG 11 MIN | 0-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 0 PTS | -8Just like Rodney Stuckey, Kim English did not make much of an impact tonight. He missed all three of his shots and had two turnovers.
Lawrence FrankLet’s be frank (pun intended) here. He coached his team to a 114-75 loss. That’s unacceptable. He played his starters, who were obviously not making any plays, way too much and they ended up losing by 39 points. There’s no excuse for that.

103 Comments

  • Mar 3, 20139:58 pm
    by ryan

    Reply

    Brandon Knight gets an F for a night when he had six boards, six assists and two steals? WTF? The man shot poorly and he had three turnovers but he was playing hard and contributing in other ways and you give him an F? Where’s the logic?

    • Mar 3, 20139:59 pm
      by Jameson Draper

      Reply

      “shot poorly” is an understatement.

      • Mar 3, 201310:17 pm
        by picknroll

        Reply

        I think if Brandon gets an F then Stuckey has to get G or H!!  Knight didn’t shoot well but played hard and did other things like rebound and give 6 dimes.  As your statement about Stuckey says “he made ABSOLUTELY no impact on the game!!  I totally agree with that assessment!  Enough said!

      • Mar 3, 201310:31 pm
        by ryan

        Reply

        His shot was just as off as your grading.
         

      • Mar 3, 201310:39 pm
        by NickB

        Reply

        Knight did play really poorly, but there are other guys on this team more deserving of an F. Stuckey, Max, Singler and Middleton all contributed less than Knight did. English too. Calderon also deserves a lower grade IMO, considering how he needs to overcome his defensive issues with serious offensive production, which he did not have despite shooting well. His -30 says it. Slava might as well be awarded an A if we want to have a bright spot. I know it is depressing to hand out a bunch of F’s, but more of those D’s really deserve to be F’s, especially when the Pistons get wreaked as badly as they did.

      • Mar 3, 201311:05 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Jameson, please clarify whether you see Knight as one of the team’s best players, a franchise guy, a major building block of the core.

        If you do, giving him an F is totally reasonable. If Monroe had a game like Knight did, I’d give him an F.

        But if you are a rational person and recognize that Knight is several steps below Monroe, then why are you grading him so much more harshly than all the other scrubs on the team? 

        • Mar 3, 201311:12 pm
          by Brandon Knight

          Reply

          He is all of the three you listed :)  and giving him an F is totally Stupid!

          • Mar 3, 201311:22 pm
            by tarsier

            You see, you go the other way in your inconsistency.

            Because it has long been clear that the players here are graded on a curve. So if Knight is the basketball superhero you claim he is, this was an abysmal game for him. But, if you recognize that he has been in the bottom 10 percentile amongst starters this season, then, for him, this was maybe a slightly below average game–at worst.

            I’d probably give him a C-, just based on the grades his teammates got.

        • Mar 4, 201312:13 am
          by Scott Free

          Reply

          Exactly.

          • Mar 4, 20139:32 am
            by Scott Free

            That was to Tarsier btw.

        • Mar 4, 20139:46 am
          by G

          Reply

          So do you grade everyone on a curve or on the same scale? Do you grade on expectations? Say for example Jason Maxiell shot 3-5, pulled 8 boards and played decent defense… Does he get an A+ for FAR surpassing expectations? Or do you grade him on “impact on the game” and give him a B?

          I think if you’re grading by impact on the game, the team gets an F and then you apportion shares of that F. Shooting 3-14 is pretty terrible, but Knight did more positive things than Stuckey, Bynum, Middleton, and Singler, among others. If you’re grading based on expectations, sure, an F is reasonable.

          • Mar 4, 201311:12 am
            by tarsier

            Obviously, the best way to grade things is nothing more than an opinion. Since we’ve already been told many times that grades are based, at least in part, on expectations, I merely ask what the expectations are of Knight and that they be a bit more consistent.

          • Mar 4, 201312:52 pm
            by G

            Right, I’m not suggesting a best way or anything, just asking what is their rubric so I’m not asking how the eff Stuckey got a better grade than Knight. Which brings up a point – how the EFF did Stuckey get a better grade than Knight?

          • Mar 4, 20131:00 pm
            by tarsier

            I’m willing to write this one off as it was not made by one of the main authors of the site. Jameson Draper has yet to build up much of an ethos. So we will have to wait and see if this was a one-off or he just doesn’t know a thing about basketball.

      • Mar 4, 20131:38 am
        by MrHappyMushroom

        Reply

        But Stuckey was not better than him. Stuckey (once again) didn’t even score and he certainly didn’t have six assists. 
        Knight was not good. Stuckey was (once again) dreadful.

    • Mar 3, 201310:08 pm
      by DrumRoe Please

      Reply

      +1

      Knight didn’t play great, but he deserves a much better grade. 

    • Mar 3, 201310:32 pm
      by robertbayer

      Reply

      Ryan .. .there is a lot of hatred for Knight that is undeserved … who is playing out of position BTW … Fire the head coach now and see how much better the team plays with a decent HC .. Frank is the problem ..

      • Mar 3, 201310:59 pm
        by NickB

        Reply

        How can you look at this roster as it is, without ‘Dre, and blame it all on him? This team sucks. It has no one who can play defense, or if they can, they’re forced to play out of position against someone they really shouldn’t be guarding. It isn’t nearly good enough on offense to cover up their bad defense, and has nothing at backup C, nothing at PF, only one backup worthy player at SF but no starter, a single undersized guy at SG, but really none, and too many combo-guards. Joe D botched one offseason so badly that we’re still trying to recover. It looks like he’ll have one more chance, so we must pray that he doesn’t blow it or we’ll be in for more years of sucking.

        • Mar 3, 201311:10 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Because, without Andre Drummond, this should still be a 30+ win team. It was the past couple years. And it’s not much different from that.

          Recently, they have not been playing like a 30 win team.

          Also, they were not playing particularly well with Drummond. Nor was Drummond getting anywhere near the minutes he deserved. So being without Drummond is a pretty pathetic excuse when Frank wasn’t doing much better with.

          Dumars has done a terrible job at everything except drafting in the last half decade. But that doesn’t take Frank off the hook. 

          • Mar 4, 201310:54 am
            by Swish22

            Joe Dumars IS the problem! There isn’t a coach alive that could win 30+ games with this group of players. Hard to blame a coach in his first couple ofyears dealing with overpaid players being forced down your throat to play! Stuckey should have been moved months ago. CV amnestied. Dumars should also be graded EVERY GAME, just embed a F in every article you guys do on the Pistons. He was a great player, he simply sucks as the gm and.things are not likely to change anytime soon. Drummond obviously made some guys appear better than some of us knew. Blow up the roster I say! There’s only a few guys who always hustle and are.smart professionals.

          • Mar 4, 201311:53 am
            by tarsier

            There isn’t a coach alive that could win 30+ games with this group of players.

             You’re joking, right. Have you seen the last couple seasons? This is almost exactly the same Pistons team as those years. And they hardly had great coaching. Yet they managed to win 30+ games/yr (except for last year because it was only 66 games but they were on a 33+ win pace).

            Heck, it would be disappointing if they managed to win 30 games this year because it would hurt their lottery odds. But it would hardly be shocking. That would mean a 7-13 finish.

            In fact, the Pistons are currently on a 30.5 win pace!! So are you arguing that if the Pistons keep on playing as they have on average this season, that will show that Frank is arguably the greatest coach alive? Really?!?! This is a bad roster, but far from an abysmal one.

    • Mar 3, 201311:01 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      For some reason, the graders on this site seem to grade Knight on the same curve as Drummond and Monroe. They grade everyone else on another standard.

      I can see factoring expectations into things, but if their expectations for Knight are so high, why do they seem to usually discuss him as though he cannot be expected to become a star in this league?

      • Mar 4, 20131:39 am
        by frankie d

        Reply

        agreed.  seems like certain graders have been reading too many posts over at a pistons blog that fancies that it is data-driven, totally fact and advanced stat oriented, and those folks over there do not like brandon knight.
        anyone who watched the game would never have given knight that kind of grade.  other than monroe and maybe calderone, he was the most effective piston.
        now, that is not saying much, considering the final result, but it is straight up ridiculous that anyone in their right mind would give knight an “F”, while giving singler and/or maxiell – who were both horrendous, as their numbers showed – better grades.
        it seems like a version of knight derangement syndrome, where certain fans are simply, inescapably incapable of viewing anything he does in any sort of rational light. 

    • Mar 4, 20133:46 am
      by Mark

      Reply

      I don’t think Knight had a “good” game, but certainly doesn’t deserve an “F” grade when none of his teammates got F’s. When you lose by 40 I could understand giving the whole team an F, but to just single out Knight, and give everyone else Bs, C’s and Ds seems unfair.

      How did Kyle Singler play a better game than Knight? If you are going to grade Knight down for shooting 21%, how do you not do the same for Singler who shot 20%? And Knight even had 4 more rebs, 6 more asts, and 2 more steals, yet he gets the lower grade?

      Sure Knight didn’t shoot good, but he was still a few asts and rebs away from being close to a  triple-double!

      That doesn’t deserve an A for getting close, but certainly doesnt deserve to be the only player on the team with an F, when a lot of other players were worse or just as bad.

       

  • Mar 3, 201310:18 pm
    by cr29

    Reply

    What do you guys think about the grades?

    • Mar 4, 20138:20 am
      by Clint in Flint

      Reply

      If grades made sense Frank would be a straight F recipient. 
      They are simply one persons opinion. Why all the excitement?  You are not suppose to kill the messenger. 

  • Mar 3, 201310:22 pm
    by NickB

    Reply

    Until ‘Dre comes back, this team is going to suck regardless of Frank. Outside of Knight (against PGs), and Stuckey too I suppose, we have no one who is particularly good at defense, or even average.
     
    We were already in trouble defensively before Dre went out, after the trade. Our starting lineup downgraded defensively at PG and SF, and on the second unit we lost essentially all of our options at SF. This was with an already undersized PF and defensively deficient C. So our second unit ends up going with 3 guards, Charlie V, and Dre (until he’s hurt), or with Middleton, Maggette or JJ, none of whom are all that good on defense. So even with Dre healthy, we end up with no one good at defending the guy they’re matched up with outside of Dre, since Knight is small to be guarding SG’s, and Stuckey would end up guarding SF’s on occasion. We were almost certain to suck on defense no matter what once that trade went down. Let me say this: Daye stunk at playing defense, but at least he had good length to help alter shots, and could space out the floor by virtue of showing up. We’ve got nothing at SF now except a backup worthy guy and a project.
     
    But we had at least one good option-start Dre. Move Greg to PF, bench Max, and bam, that first unit can actually defend and still score. The second unit would blow, but the were going to blow anyways. Unfortunately, that option is gone, and now we have nobody who can play defense. Since we don’t really have much offense on this team, how is it going to win any games at all? We’re destined to suck no matter what Frank does. He should just play our young guys a little every game no matter what, because it doesn’t matter if we try or not, we’re not going to win except by accident.
     
    We’ve got quite a list of things for Joe D to do this off season:
    Find us a backup PF, Max should just go and Charlie V is not an answer, nor is JJ.
    Find us a backup C, or decide Slava can develop into one in a year or so.
    Find us a starting SF who can shoot the 3. Singler can be a backup.
    Decide if Knight is going to be an undersized SG or developmental project at PG behind Calderon (if you can keep him). If he’s going back to PG, find a starting SG. In either scenario, find a backup SG, because English still has a ways to go.
    Find or keep a starting PG (Calderon, or draft Burke?). Move Stuckey, he’s a slightly worse version of Knight who can’t shoot the 3 for all intents and purposes. Bynum is a better backup PG, might as well hold onto him.
    Wow, we’re just bad.

  • Mar 3, 201310:24 pm
    by qm_22

    Reply

    Singler got a D?????? He should get a giant F. Wow, he was punishingly bad to watch. His stats do not reflect his botched plays, e.g., not laying it up after receiving good passes from Calderon; not rotating on D; not getting through screens. And by saying “not rotating” and “not getting through”, I mean not even close. One of the worst players in the NBA. 

  • Mar 3, 201310:30 pm
    by robertbayer

    Reply

    Agree with all the posts here .. Knight deserves a D …  or give a lot more Fs … It doesnt seem like these grades consider defense .. Boxscores dont tell you everything .. To be honest Calderon’s D was bad in this game .. as usual ..

    • Mar 3, 201310:45 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I think there absolutely should be more Fs after getting beat by 39. Stuckey, Maxiell, English, Middleton, and Singler were all as bad or worse than Knight. I’d give them all Fs. By the way, Knight’s defense was bad. His off ball defense needs some serious work, and he got lost several times. It’s a common problem amongst young guards, but it was definitely a problem tonight. If you encourage defense playing a bigger role in the grading, Knight deserves that F. I still thought it was nice that he made a handful of decent passes and hit the boards. He did some positive things, they just were outweighed by the negatives tonight.

  • Mar 3, 201310:47 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha …. -F- for Knight you got to be kidding me!!!! Yeah he shot poorly but played hard the whole game. 8 points 6 rebounds 6 Assists 2 Steals and forced 1 or 2 fouls. I don’t think you watched the game.

  • Mar 3, 201310:51 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Bk having a lower grade than Stuckey is… Buffoonery?

  • Mar 3, 201310:56 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    Lol, lol!! Knight gets an F even though he played the hardest, played defense, and had 6 assist…Singler gets a D for doing absolutely nothing and being a bum on the court as usual…Smh, someone tell Patrick to come back we need to talk…

    • Mar 3, 201310:58 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      You missed being mocked?
       

      • Mar 3, 201311:06 pm
        by Jodi Jezz

        Reply

        Mocked??. You must be new here rookie…Most of everything I say is true or ends up legit…

        • Mar 3, 201311:07 pm
          by Brandon Knight

          Reply

          LOL

        • Mar 3, 201311:16 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I think this is one of few articles on this site where I am liable to end up doing a lot of agreeing with “Brandon Knight” in the comments section.

          Also, oats is definitely not a new commenter.

          And Jodi, “most of everything [you] say is” about how great BG and CV are. So ummm, pardon the entire world if they just laugh at you.

          • Mar 3, 201311:23 pm
            by oats

            I think I started commenting before Hayes joined the site. I don’t remember exactly, but I’ve been reading that long and commenting almost as long. I do go long periods with just reading the comments and not posting though, so I get how someone would forget that I’ve been here for a long time.

          • Mar 3, 201311:56 pm
            by Jodi Jezz

            @tarsier: Hahaha, I like all players from UCONN!..They laughed at me when I said the Rip was a good top notch SG and Drummond will be a Piston…
             
            @oats: I’m just joking bro…I’ve know your not new here…

          • Mar 4, 20138:55 am
            by G

            *you’re

            It’s getting to the point where if I see “your” correctly used (indicating possession), it still looks wrong just because I see it incorrectly used (to replace the contraction of “you” and “are”) so often 

      • Mar 3, 201311:08 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Ha ha :-)

  • Mar 3, 201310:59 pm
    by Fennis

    Reply

    I hate to criticize the grades given that you guys do this as what appears to be public service, but my suspicion is that the grader didn’t watch the game. The grades and accompanying comments seem like one man’s take on the box score (i.e., a stats-only assessment of the game). That’s obviously fine, and kudos to you for taking on that task, but if you didn’t watch the game I think you’d have to be a bit more deferential in your take as what exactly happened and who is at fault.

    • Mar 4, 20131:08 am
      by oats

      Reply

      That seems like an unfair assertion. There are plenty of reasons why people watching the game might give poor grades. Knight was on the court more, so there were a lot of opportunities to notice when he made mistakes. Maxiell on the other hand seemed to disappear, as did several other players. There were a few times I found myself struggling to remember all of who was on the court. For better or worse, Knight was pretty front and center the whole time, and maybe that added attention caused him to receive a worse grade. I think either that or tarsier’s guess that Knight is being graded on too steep of a curve are far more likely than Jameson not watching the game. I mean, statistically Singler had a worse game than Knight. He shot a lower percentage, had only a third of the rebounds despite being a forward, had 0 assists, and he only had 1 fewer turnover. I just can’t see how a stats only reading would give Singler a D.

  • Mar 3, 201311:01 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    You guys do realize by now that they just crap on Knight right? Giving him a lower grade then he deserves brings more comments and debate to the blog.  The whole team sucked tonight.  Knight was due for a poor shooting game but he had an impact passing and on the boards. We lost to the Spurs on the road, oh well. It’s all about tanking, and for that reason they all get A’s.

  • Mar 3, 201311:19 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    @Mark I was just about to say that I’ve given up on this season and am now in all out ‘tank mode’. Am i ashamed that i’m in tank mode?? Yes i am but hey its not my fault we need to suck really bad to get better. Anyways i posted this on the in game blog but not many people replied so i thought i’d cut and paste it to see what people think. Who has a good shot to overtake us in the standings with the following schedules??
    Washington run home:
    Philadelphia
    Minnesota
    Brooklyn
    Charlotte
    Cleveland
    Milwaukee
    New Orleans
    Phoenix
    Charlotte
    Phoenix
    L.A. Lakers
    Golden State
    Memphis
    Oklahoma City
    Orlando
    Toronto
    Chicago
    Toronto
    Indiana
    Boston
    New York
    Miami
    Philadelphia
    Brooklyn
    Chicago
    Sacremento run home:
    Charlotte
    Denver
    Golden State
    Phoenix
    Milwaukee
    Chicago
    L.A. Lakers
    L.A. Clippers
    Minnesota
    Denver
    Philadelphia
    Golden State
    Phoenix
    L.A. Lakers
    Houston
    Dallas
    Memphis
    New Orleans
    San Antonio
    Houston
    Oklahoma City
    L.A. Clippers
    Cleveland’s run home:
    New York
    Utah
    Memphis
    Toronto
    Washington
    Dallas
    San Antonio
    Indiana
    Miami
    Houston
    Boston
    Philadelphia
    New Orleans
    Atlanta
    Brooklyn
    Boston
    Orlando
    Indiana
    Detroit
    New York
    Philadelphia
    Miami
    Charlotte
    New Orleans run home:
    Orlando
    L.A. Lakers
    Memphis
    Portland
    Brooklyn
    Washington
    Minnesota
    Golden State
    Boston
    Memphis
    Denver
    L.A. Clippers
    Miami
    Cleveland
    Golden State
    Utah
    Phoenix
    L.A. Lakers
    Sacramento
    L.A. Clippers
    Dallas
    Dallas
    Phoenix run home:
    Toronto
    Sacramento
    Houston
    Denver
    Houston
    Atlanta
    Washington
    L.A. Lakers
    Washington
    Minnesota
    Brooklyn
    Utah
    Sacramento
    Indiana
    L.A. Clippers
    Golden State
    New Orleans
    Houston
    Dallas
    Minnesota
    Houston
    Denver
    Minnesota run home:
    Miami
    Washington
    Denver
    Dallas
    San Antonio
    Indiana
    Houston
    New Orleans
    Memphis
    Sacramento
    Phoenix
    Chicago
    Detroit
    L.A. Lakers
    Oklahoma City
    Memphis
    Boston
    Milwaukee
    Toronto
    Detroit
    Golden State
    L.A. Clippers
    Utah
    Phoenix
    Utah
    San Antonio 

  • Mar 3, 201311:22 pm
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    Another nail in Frank’s coffin.  Obvious that the players have lost interest.  MFWB gave a really snarky interview and the general malaise of the team says it all.  No need to even give out grades anymore.  Have most of the pieces for a decent team, all we need now is a new coach, not more excuses.  Not watching anymore until Dre comes back, this ride is too painful.

  • Mar 3, 201311:26 pm
    by George

    Reply

    I’ll say it once, I’ll say it again, the buck stops at JoeD for this mess of a team.  I really hope Gores comes to this conclusion soon, because between getting our next coach, as well as handing out a bunch new contracts this off season, I doubt him(actually his investment group) can continue to support this bad investment.  

    You can’t blame Drummond’s absence for how poorly we are playing, because entering the season, no one knew how impressive he would play our the gate.  He was viewed as a long term project.

    From Monroe and his agent’s stance, it seems like he isn’t happy with the direction of the team (coaching/players/etc).  He could sign a max deal now, but is choosing to wait, and risk his health, because of this mess.

    Finally, I like Knight’s work ethic, hustle, and grit, but at this point, he is just a luxury for us to have.  Knight would be a great 6th man on a playoff team, and we just have to many needs in out starting lineup.  We have needs at starting SG and SF.  We also need need to get a PG to develop long term, as well as more frontcourt help, because Villy and Max are a huge step down from Monroe and Drummond.  If trading Knight can get us some talent/picks that can help us grow as a team, then we have to be prepared to pounce.

    Now getting back to JoeD, I do believe it is imperative for Gores seriously consider letting him go.  Some of you think there are no better replacements for him, but what credentials did he bring into the job?  He had a nice run, but we need a change.  I wish we could get Hammond back, but if not, why not sniff around the management of any of the Texas teams (Hou, SA, or Dallas) or OKC?  I am not saying to take their top guys, but their second in command.

    Sorry for the long post.  I am just sick of all these blowouts of late.  It is beyond embarrassing.

    • Mar 3, 201311:30 pm
      by George

      Reply

      I should have added Denver to my list of management teams to look into to find our next  team prez.

      • Mar 4, 201310:37 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        Just FYI Monroe isn’t “risking his health” and “choosing” to not sign a max deal now because of the state of the Pistons.  He is waiting like just about every players does because he can get a better contract if he waits until his current one expires, not to mention no matter what the Pistons have rights to match his offers so not really in any danger of him leaving.

        • Mar 4, 201310:45 am
          by George

          Reply

          Huddy, he can guarantee himself a max deal if he signs now.  I don’t think he should worry about being in a weak FA class.  Considering his age 22 and position, I think it is a no brainer for every executive in the league.  I really do take it as his agent Arn Tellum having him leverage his value to expedite changes to the team/coaching/management.

          I said he is risking something by not signing because if he has a major injury (knock on wood), he can kiss a big contract goodbye.

          • Mar 4, 201311:24 am
            by Huddy

            You can call it leverage or whatever you would like, but it is simply a risk that most players take now.  In the article about his deal his agent said he hasn’t negotiated a max deal before a player’s contract year since the 90′s, that is just what guys do now. 

  • Mar 3, 201311:42 pm
    by Jacob

    Reply

    Drafting Trey Burke would help, let calderon and bynum go. Trade stuckey and Charlie. Sign some actual NBA starters. Singler should be a bench player.

  • Mar 3, 201311:43 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    I do agree that Knight didn’t deserve an F tonight. Too much stock is put into shooting percentages. With that being the case, there isn’t any logical reason why Stuckey didn’t get an F but Knight did. Lately Stuck has been absent more often than not. 

  • Mar 3, 201311:43 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    Knight is not going anywhere!  He is not our problem.  

    • Mar 3, 201311:48 pm
      by Jacob

      Reply

      Vincent Goodwill?@vgoodwill3 hrs
      Like I wrote, Brandon Knight plays hard, all the time. Despite his deficiencies, he goes after it. Like kids like that on my team

      I think Knight, Monroe, Drummond deserver next year together before we even consider trading any of them.    

      • Mar 4, 201312:05 am
        by Brandon Knight

        Reply

        I agree! Knight and Drummond didn’t play together that much this season.

  • Mar 3, 201311:57 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    All I see when I watch the Pistons is this :
    Charlie driving and missing
    J.Max shooting and missing
    J.Max loosing the ball under the rim.
    Stuckey doing absolutely nothing
    Charlie grabbing and fouling players.
    Jerebko hustling but nothing else.
    Kim English and Middleton running the floor and nothing else.
    Do you guys agree? You can add to the list!

     

    • Mar 4, 20138:28 am
      by Clint in Flint

      Reply

      Frank wondering where he is and why.

  • Mar 3, 201311:58 pm
    by sb3

    Reply

    Singler getting a D while Knight gets an F? Nice. Singler negatively impacted the game with his horrible defense and 2 of 10 is only 20% shooting. He deserves an F-.

  • Mar 4, 20131:16 am
    by Tiko

    Reply

    Whats the point of this whole post game write up if all it is is just a box score analysis? This guy clearly didn’t watch the game. “Knight had another horrid game”
    this kid is coming off back to back career games after being injured. hater much?

    • Mar 4, 20131:58 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I said something similar earlier, but how could box score analysis not give Singler an F? His box score is worse than Knight’s. Yeah, I disagree with the grades given to several players, but this doesn’t seem like the cause of the problem to me.

  • Mar 4, 20133:02 am
    by MoATL

    Reply

    Eye ball test clearly shown Stuckey and Max were more deserving of the Fs. It does seem suspicious that the blogger was in attack mode on Knight. Even the Knight pessimists agree that he didnt deserve an F. I saw him outrebound 2  bigget Spurs defenders twice in traffic. 

    Stuckey has tanked it. Might as well give Middleton (who did start the routing with 4pt play to Ginobli).

    Can Frank atleast not start Max for remainder of season. We are a bad defensive team especially w/out Drummond but atleast CV or JJ have the potential to put 10+ pts on a given night. Problem wit. Max is when he has bad games its 0-whatever 1 rebound, 0 assist, couple of turnovers. Same for Stuckey lately.  

  • Mar 4, 20133:09 am
    by MoATL

    Reply

    Calderon only had a couple of assists but the Blogger failed to mention all the missed shots and passing up of wide open shots our team consistently produced. Several times Knight, Calderon and Bynum drove n kicked to JJ, Max, and Monroe yet they either turned it over, missed the open shot, or passed it up. That certainly wont affect your assist numbers right?!!!

  • Mar 4, 20133:37 am
    by Lorenzo

    Reply

    You guys do realize you are arguing over D’s and F’s mock grades?!?! Your team lost by 39 points and that’s what the discussion is over?! How petty and pathetic is this fan base getting!? When your team gets blown out by that margin everyone and everything was an utter failure for the night; stop trying to make apologies for any player or coach. 

    • Mar 4, 20133:51 am
      by Mark

      Reply

      Like you said, they lost by 39 pts. When that happens there’s not much else to talk about it. Do you want to break down film of every play that led to the 39 pt defeat? lol

      • Mar 4, 20133:59 am
        by Lorenzo

        Reply

        Even that would be redundant in a 39 pt loss. How about a simple we got our ass handed to us and everyone failed….rather than arguing who sucked less….which just comes off as maaaaddddd pitiful. 

        • Mar 4, 20134:34 am
          by oats

          Reply

          To be fair, I’ve been arguing for more Fs… Only 1 player got an F? How is that possible?

          • Mar 4, 20139:48 am
            by G

            Social promotion?

  • Mar 4, 20136:59 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Topic Arguements this Year…

    Starting Drummond…
    Firing Frank
    Frank Rotation
     Brandon Knights Potential or Lack of Potential …

    Never gets old …. 

  • Mar 4, 20137:05 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    I think its sad…Maxiell has played sooo bad in the last several weeks…that when he does nothing! its considered a positive…

    Frank has cost Max millions of Dollars for continue to start him and expose all of his flaws… Atleast in a back up role…he would have been a nice consideration for a title contending team 

    • Mar 4, 20138:58 am
      by G

      Reply

      Agree about Maxiell. Even his supposed defensive presence has been more of a liability than anything. He shot the ball well vs. NO, but Ryan Anderson schooled him pretty bad at the other end. Last night he was an unmitigated disaster.

    • Mar 4, 20139:01 am
      by G

      Reply

      He wasn’t exactly stellar vs. Duncan either, but Duncan’s good…

  • Mar 4, 20139:10 am
    by G

    Reply

    Here’s the thing with grades – in a game like this, you almost have to throw them out and give out F’s across the board. It’s a team game and when a team combines to lose by 39, everybody pitched in to make that happen.

    Calderon’s a terrible defender, but if we had Drummond or say vintage Ben Wallace patrolling the paint to mop up, we wouldn’t care so much (Rip was nearly as bad defensively, didn’t matter because we had Ben). I think in a sense individual grades are misleading, since one player’s production depends heavily on the other 4 guys he’s playing with.

    That said, there might be 3 guys I’d be tempted to grade higher than ‘F’ – Monroe (C+), Calderon (D+), and possibly Brandon Knight (D-: made an effort on D, rebounded well & tried to distribute). Frank deserves a Q, since it looks like the team has quit on him. He gets out-coached more often than not, and I can’t think of many examples of him out-coaching the other guy. 

    • Mar 4, 201311:37 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      Yo, “G’, if “if” was a fifth …

      • Mar 4, 201312:54 pm
        by G

        Reply

        What does that even mean?

        • Mar 4, 20131:15 pm
          by sebastian

          Reply

          Surely, a philosophical sports muse like yourself has heard: If “if” was a fifth … .
          What I am referring to is your comment: Calderon’s a terrible defender, but if we had Drummond or say vintage Ben Wallace patrolling the paint to mop up,
          Yes, Calderon is a terrible defender; but Drummond has not and probably will not play with Calderon none this season and Big Ben is long gone.
          The “fifth” refers to a 1/5 of liquor, my friend.
           
           

          • Mar 4, 20131:25 pm
            by G

            I was trying to figure out how it applied… Which gets to the part where you missed my point. I wasn’t making excuses for Calderon, I was trying to provide some perspective. 

      • Mar 4, 20131:15 pm
        by G

        Reply

        I’m thinking you missed my whole point, which was that everyone on the court relies on everyone else. It’s pretty hard to evaluate individual performances in a vacuum. Initially it was thought that playing Drummond behind Calderon would boost Calderon’s D, since he could play tighter on the perimeter & count on Drummond whenever he got burned. Well Drummond went down, so instead of a rim protector he’s got Maxiell & Monroe.

        In a game where your team turns it over 19 times, gives up easy buckets, and it throwing bricks, it drags everyone’s performance down. Calderon’s less likely to make an entry pass to a guy shooting 2-10, Monroe’s less likely to pass out of a double team, guys are slower to rotate defensively after the same guy’s been burned 12 times by the same move. 

    • Mar 4, 20131:05 pm
      by T Casey

      Reply

      Tip was a far better defender than Calderon is in his time here. He’s fiesty on the block and did a good job most nights of staying in front of his man. Ben was gone after the ’06 season and Rip was still equally solid defensively. making the all defensive 2nd team until ’08 I believe.

      • Mar 4, 20131:06 pm
        by T Casey

        Reply

        That was supposed to be “Rip” at the beginning of my last post, not “Tip.” 

        • Mar 4, 20131:18 pm
          by G

          Reply

          And you ARE mistaken. Rip never made an all-defensive team. You may be thinking of Tayshaun. I watched Rip for years, he lost his man ALL THE TIME, got caught ball watching, and whenever he tried to play tight D, he fouled his guy. 

  • Mar 4, 201310:23 am
    by ryan

    Reply

  • Mar 4, 201310:26 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    Shows not shoes.

  • Mar 4, 201311:22 am
    by sebastian

    Reply

    PistonPowered: I get the evaluation system that you’ll have to a very large degree maintain the integrity of since the start of the season.
    But, let’s be real … OUR roster is jacked up so bad that the grading system negatively skewed or at best meaningless at this point of the season.
    The Head Coach can’t coach and thus place guys in more advantageous positions. Guys are playing out of position: Stuckey (SF); Kyle Singler starting SG, when Tay was still with US; B. Knight starting SG; Maxey starting SF; Dre Drummond, I know he is currently injured, but never has started and never played significant minutes with B. Knight (a point that I have continued to make all season) when Dre was playing; Calderon has been inserted onto the roster has if he is some PG-maven; befuddlingly Jerebko got only DNP-CDs and could only be seen on milk cartons; Charlie V. and Will B. get minutes, now, but for a good two months they were only seen in the warm-up lines.
    And, what about Middleton, English, and the Ukraine?
    The roster is just seriously jack up!

    • Mar 4, 201311:40 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      Typo: more advantageous position. I was meaning to write ” … in more disadvantageous positions …”
      Bottom line; L. Frank is not the coach for the OUR Pistons going forward!

      • Mar 4, 20131:08 pm
        by G

        Reply

        Typo: Knight was not out of position at SG, he was out of position at PG. Also, Maxiell plays PF, not SF. Continue…

        • Mar 4, 20131:32 pm
          by sebastian

          Reply

          G, my fault above, where I wrote that Maxey has been mis-cast as a starting SF, I meant to type a starting PF. Maxey should be coming off the bench on any team in the NBA. He is not a starter, plain and simple, contract year or no contract year.
          And, B. Knight is a PG. The only way that he can be confused as a SG is as a third guard off the bench, coming into a game as the game has evolved.
          It is my opinion that B. Knight can become an above average, starting PG if he has the right coach.
          And, I don’t care what you say about Isiah Lord Thomas III. Zeke can be a far, far more successful coach of the Pistons than the over matched, L. Frank.

          • Mar 4, 20131:42 pm
            by G

            Not getting into an Isiah argument, no point. Here’s a fact – Knight has never shown the ability to be a legit PG. He’s a combo guard, and he leans more towards the SG side of that equation. He turns it over too much, has poor assist numbers, and turns it over too much. He also has a serious problem with turnovers, and I suspect he shouldn’t have the responsibility of bringing the ball up the court, given his propensity to turn it over. Did I mention he turns it over a lot, which probably indicates he shouldn’t be a PG?

            Sometimes you can accept a high number of turnovers in a PG if he contributes something else as a ball handler, like scoring (see Irving, Kyrie) or creating opportunities for other players (see Nash, Steve). Since Knight does neither, he should play off the ball.

          • Mar 4, 20131:42 pm
            by G

            Not getting into an Isiah argument, no point. Here’s a fact – Knight has never shown the ability to be a legit PG. He’s a combo guard, and he leans more towards the SG side of that equation. He turns it over too much, has poor assist numbers, and turns it over too much. He also has a serious problem with turnovers, and I suspect he shouldn’t have the responsibility of bringing the ball up the court, given his propensity to turn it over. Did I mention he turns it over a lot, which probably indicates he shouldn’t be a PG?

            Sometimes you can accept a high number of turnovers in a PG if he contributes something else as a ball handler, like scoring (see Irving, Kyrie) or creating opportunities for other players (see Nash, Steve). Since Knight does neither, he should play off the ball.

          • Mar 4, 20131:52 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            @Sebastian:

            “And, I don’t care what you say about Isiah Lord Thomas III. Zeke can be a far, far more successful coach of the Pistons than the over matched, L. Frank.”

            Few points:

            - Replacing one overmatched coach with another overmatched coach is, at best, only a lateral move. It’s certainly not a positive move. Yeah, Isiah was the top player in franchise history and an all-time great. But if he never played for the Pistons, based solely on his coaching credentials, would you want him coaching your favorite team?

            - Second, as coaches, neither guy is anything special, obviously, but Frank has actually had more success in his coaching career than Isiah has had in his. Frank has four playoff appearances to Isiah’s three, and Frank’s teams have been to the second round three times while Isiah’s have never got out of the first round.

            If you’re making the case that Frank is a terrible coach, you’re right and I agree 100 percent with you. If you’re making the case that Isiah is not a terrible coach, you’re wrong. He was a failure as a coach in the NBA and college. That doesn’t discount any of his playing career accomplishments, but those accomplishments shouldn’t be enough to get him another chance at a NBA head coaching gig.

  • Mar 4, 201311:26 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    we need a better coach…. I have hated the idea of Frank since day one… and he has lived up to my expectation. 

    2011-2012 The slow starts ….. Inconsistent line up …questionanle rotation … Does not motivate players… 

    2012-2013 – Repeat of 2011-2012 …. to bring back Frank is throwing away another season

     

    • Mar 4, 20137:30 pm
      by T Casey

      Reply

      Same. Yet, here we are playing exactly how a coach Frank team plays. Wake me up when it’s over.

  • Mar 4, 201312:19 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    This started as a reply to tarsier, but I think it’s applicable to what a lot of people have commented, so I’ll just post in its own thread.

    I won’t speak for why others grade the way they do, but I’ll chime in here with a few points:

    - Up front, the grades in general are really, really stupid to me. They are a cool graphic, and they are handy for quick scan reading/evaluation. Yeah, in general, I like to think that people assigning grades should have some sort of rationale for it. But it’s a bit insane to me that people get seriously worked up that like Knight, for example in this game, got an F instead of a D or something. He sucked, he was one of many Pistons on the court who sucked and that’s about all there is worth saying about it. This is a bad team that loses a ton. I could hand out F’s to most of the lineup every single game and be  justified doing that. But seriously, who would read that? There are challenges to doing this with any credibility — you have to be somewhat objective, you have to adjust expectations to fit with the reality that this team sucks and not be overly negative as a result and you have to mindful of many different ways you could approach success of individuals on a game to game basis. Shit, I think I’ve given Kravtsov a B before just because he played five minutes without falling down. The point isn’t for this to be a 100 percent serious practice. It’s to provide (hopefully) some insight and also not be a drag to read. I think we’re successful with that approach far more often that we are unsuccessful.

    - Re: “I merely ask what the expectations are of Knight and that they be a bit more consistent.” I will say that my method for grading Knight has nothing to do with my expectations for him. Knight is an inconsistent player who isn’t a reliable option at either the 1 or the 2 on a full-time basis. That’s my evaluation of him and, I think, the evaluation of many others. Anyone who thinks Knight is in the same class as Monroe and Drummond when it comes to building blocks is crazy. But you know who might be crazy? The organization. Every chance they get, they market Knight as a cornerstone guy. Last year, they’d never mention Monroe without also mentioning Knight and this year has been more of the same. So I don’t ever grade Knight based on my expectations. Based on my expectations, he meets them most games. But because the organization views him as a building block as important as Monroe/Drummond, I grade with that in mind. By those standards, Knight is rarely a success on the court and I grade him more harshly as a result. That’s not his fault, either. The Pistons ratcheted up expectations for him. It’s been unfair, but it still is what it is. They think he’s an above average starting guard in this league despite very little evidence to support that he is. 

    • Mar 4, 20131:06 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Right. I think giving everyone F’s across the board would be boring, but probably more accurate. 

      Here’s a suggestion for grading a sh– show like what we saw last night: instead of grades, make a pie chart or something & assign responsibility for the loss. Example – Frank was terrible, he owns 25% of the sh– pie. Knight couldn’t hit anything & had a lot of turnovers, he owns 8%. While Stuckey was a disaster, he only played 19min & not much is expected of him, so he only owns 2% of the pie…

      That way you account for bad performance, but it’s also nuanced by expectations. A starter playing 30+ minutes and missing 11 of 14 shots is more of a negative impact than a bench guy playing 19min and going 0-5, even if technically the starter played slightly better.

      • Mar 4, 20131:23 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        Ha. You’re gonna have to talk to Feldman about that. I couldn’t even get the grades graphics to work the last game I wrote up. There’s no way I could come up with a pie chart graphic, although a shit pie as game evaluator does sound incredibly appropriate for this team.

        • Mar 4, 20131:27 pm
          by G

          Reply

          That’s what I’m saying! A sh– pie would be an AWESOME graphic… Well, you know, fitting anyway, since you’re evaluating crappy performances of crappy players in a crappy game.

    • Mar 4, 20131:10 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Much as I agree that the grades are silly, they’re a talking point. And an enjoyable starting place for talking about how the Pitons did. But they are more so if it seems like they are being derived in an understandable, logical manner.

      So, if you realize that the organizational expectations for Knight are way overblown, why would you even factor those into a grade? Virtually nobody else has such elevated expectations. If the Pistons brass started talking up Singler and Jerebko big time, would their grades suffer big time?

      This really doesn’t seem that different than grading LeBron or Westbrook more generously because you heard Skip Bayless bashing them. It’s one ridiculous voice in the midst of an ocean of dissenters.

      • Mar 4, 20131:21 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        “So, if you realize that the organizational expectations for Knight are way overblown, why would you even factor those into a grade?”

        Because they factor into how many minutes he plays, the role he plays, etc. If the organization says Knight is as critical as Monroe or Drummond and reinforces that by how they play him and use him, then yes, it’s absolutely fair for me to consider that in grades. Their expectations of him are high. I don’t understand why, but they are, so I treat him as such.

        “ If the Pistons brass started talking up Singler and Jerebko big time, would their grades suffer big time?”

        Yes. If the organization started saying, essentially, expect these guys to be stars, I would grade them according to those expectations.

        “This really doesn’t seem that different than grading LeBron or Westbrook more generously because you heard Skip Bayless bashing them.”

        Really? You’re smarter than that. Does Skip Bayless work for the Heat or Thunder? If the Pistons say Knight is a building block every bit as important as Drummond/Monroe, and they absolutely do, how can I not factor that in and grade more harshly as a result? Monroe is living up to those expectations. Drummond is. Knight isn’t. It is important that it’s pointed out. They’ve invested more minutes/development in Knight, I would argue, than either of their two young bigs. They obviously think he’s something. If I’m watching a game objectively and I don’t see what they see, then  yes, I feel the need to point that out every game that I don’t see it.

        • Mar 4, 20131:34 pm
          by G

          Reply

          This gets back to “game impact”. Knight sucking for 36 min had more impact on the outcome than Maxiell sucking for only 16 min. To over simplify, say everyone else on the team plays acceptably except Knight and Maxiell. Do you say, “man, Maxiell really cost the Pistons that game by missing those 2 shots” or do you say “holy crap, Knight going 3-14 was a killer”? You blame Knight, right?

          • Mar 4, 201310:38 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            Knight was horrible shooting….

        • Mar 4, 20135:06 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Interesting. I can’t say that’s how I would see things. But it does give me an idea of what sort of lens to view these grades through in the future. Thanks for that.

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