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Brandon Knight on notice after NBA trade deadline

Zach Lowe of Grantland wrote about everyone and everything that “is on notice” after the NBA trade deadline, including Brandon Knight:

This is the next big question for the Pistons, flush with cap room this summer and going forward. The acquisition of Jose Calderon turned Knight into something like a shooting guard, and it wasn’t going all that well before Knight’s knee injury last week; Knight has shot just 37 percent with Calderon on the floor, per NBA.com, and he has generally been shaky so far as a lead NBA guard. He’s a little small to play 2-guard full time, though it’s handy in the 2013 NBA to have point-guard types capable of running a side pick-and-roll in a pinch. Knight still projects as a good defender, and his 3-point shot has been solid from day one.

And this is only his second year. But the Pistons have to start thinking about his future, and his future salary, right now.

You can ignore what I wrote after the Pistons traded for Jose Calderon, but when Lowe writes, you better listen.

62 Comments

  • Feb 26, 20136:04 pm
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    Knight is our future point guard. Enough said! 

    • Feb 26, 20136:36 pm
      by chubbs

      Reply

      As of now, Knight is a back up combo PG/SG on a good team.

      • Feb 26, 20137:19 pm
        by Tyrone

        Reply

        Knight is still very young with talent and potential, but Knight is not untouchable… He still needs to keep improving his overall game to earn and keep his spot on the team.

    • Feb 27, 20131:13 am
      by Mrshourite

      Reply

      LOL

    • Feb 27, 201312:15 pm
      by tim

      Reply

      This guy is ridiculous.  If Knight is our pg of the future, we are screwed.  Remember when stuckey was our pg of the future?  How’d that work out for us.  Face it, knight is just not good enough to be a true starting caliber pg in the league and probably never will be. 

  • Feb 26, 20136:33 pm
    by Ryan Kelly

    Reply

    knight hasn’t proven enough to say he is the future pg.   Right now he looks pretty mediocre.   Turnover machine and erratic in general.  Still young with potential.   But at this point the pistons only have two positions set for the future.  Center and Pf.   They need a legit 1,2, and 3.   Is Brandon knight legit at the 1?   I agree with Lowe.    Who knows.  Right now he doesn’t look better than very many pgs in the league.           He could be a legit 6th man and there’s no shame in that.   This roster is a disaster with real nba playoff talent sorely lacking.  

  • Feb 26, 20136:33 pm
    by Franks Must Go

    Reply

    I may be off in how I remember this, but wasn’t Brandon having some very good games at the two right before the injury, after struggling in the role early on? Brandon was putting on a great display of his skills at the two in the game he was injured. I honestly do not believe Brandon at the two is much of a question mark for the team. Not as much as Singler at the three, or as much as Monroe ability to not just play the four, because he can, but more so how well he fits next to Drummond, opposed to having a stretch four play next to Drummond to open up the floor. The only possible upgrade I see out there to Knight right now is Eric Gordon or OJ Mayo. But neither of them have the dribbling ability of Brandon, or play defense as well. Brandon could end up being better than both. Our goal this summer should be to lure Chris Paul here to play with Drummond. If we can also sign Josh Smith and draft Victor Olapido, this will be a very good team. Smith and Drummond starting in the frontcourt is a far more intimidating frontcourt than Monroe and Drummond because of smith ability to shoot the outside shot. Not that he is a good 3pt shooter, but 29% is better than 0%. He will get great looks at the open 3pt shot as teams drop into the post defend against Drummond going up for a lob. Also, because both is excellent defenders in the paint. Monroe can move to the bench and be our go to scorer off the bench at both the four playing next to Slava, or at the five playing with JJ or Charlie V. Monroe is a stud, but the second best one on the team. He should be the stud off the bench. CP3, Knight, Singler,Smith,Drummond starting and Bynum, Olapido, Middleton, JJ, Monroe, Reserves Slava and English… Feels good to dream…

    • Feb 27, 201310:48 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Definitely wouldn’t say knight has been finding his groove since being moved to SG.  He has scored under 10 about as much as he has scored over 15 with some FG% as low as 16% and 20%.  Wouldn’t call that being set at the SG.

  • Feb 26, 20136:52 pm
    by Brian

    Reply

    There is noway that Chris Paul would leave a team that has a really good chance to win a championship in LA to come to Detroit for less money on a bad team.

  • Feb 26, 20137:40 pm
    by Pratik

    Reply

    Yeah Chris Paul is not coming here. Even if we overpaid him. I’d like to see O.J. Mayo or Josh Smith, but not sure if Smith would be willing to play the 3 here. Because I wouldn’t want to give up on the Monroe/Drummond combination without even seeing them start together. 

    • Feb 26, 201311:45 pm
      by oats

      Reply

      I’ve said it before, by why in the world would we want Smith to play the 3? He can’t shoot, and we are talking about pairing him with Monroe and Drummond, two more guys who can’t shoot. That sounds absolutely horrendous. What’s more, Monroe and Drummond clogging up the middle will just encourage Josh Smith to take more jump shots when ideally he’d take as close to 0 as possible. If we were playing him with someone like Ryan Anderson I’d be all for him him playing the 3, but not with Monroe and Drummond.

  • Feb 26, 20138:26 pm
    by Willy

    Reply

    All this talk about who we should get is pointless till we can find someone to coach em

    • Feb 26, 20138:54 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Exactly. No FA is going to come here to play for Frank. You would expect on the eve of one of the most important FAs in Dumars tenure, where he’s been loading up on capspace to shop in FA, that he would realize the best way to attract FAs is to have a great coach in place that they will want to come and play for. If he goes into FA with Frank still here, I can’t imagine him being too successful getting the guys he wants.

       

      • Feb 27, 201311:13 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        I’m not sure thats a huge factor and it doesn’t make sense to make our organization look even more shaky by changing coaches before the season is over, if Joe is planning a coaching changes he can always communicate that to a FA without doing it mid season.  I am not a fan of Franks but he is coaching a bad team.  We are not a Playoff team with Phil Jackson as our coach right now we don’t have the talent.  FAs do care about coaching, but they aren’t rookies, they are less worried about developing since they generally have been in the league a while and more concerned with where the team is going.  We have the best Rookie C in the league a future all star in Monroe and other attractive pieces (Calderon, Knight, maybe Singler) not to mention whoever we draft and maybe bringing in more than one FA.  Those factors are going to matter more than Frank.  What is the most important is that from what has been put out there for the last few months it is more likely we will be bringing in players via trade and using our cap space to take on contracts others can’t as opposed to picking through the weak FA market, so that really makes the coaching change a non factor at least for acquiring talent.

  • Feb 26, 20139:00 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    On Knight — No improvement at all across the board from year 1 to year 2. Of course he’s going to be on notice next year. Because if he doesn’t show significant improvement, its going to be hard to justify going forward with a young player who has shown no improvement in 3 yrs. 

    Joe D said in the summer he wanted Knight to master the position this year. Lofty expectations for a 2nd yr 21 yr old PG. But that is what he said, and Knight not only hasnt mastered it, he hasn’t even proven he can play the position. And with the Calderon trade its clear to me that Dumars isn’t going to be patient waiting for him to “get it”, like he made the mistake of doing with Stuckey for 4 yrs. 

    Say what you want about Dumars mistakes over the years, but the one thing he never does is make the same mistake twice. He identifies mistakes very early, fixes them asap, and then doesn’t make them again. Knight needs a big year next year or he could be traded imo 

     

    • Feb 27, 20133:47 am
      by oats

      Reply

      It should be noted that Zach Lowe is clearly putting Knight on notice right now and not next year. He is saying that if Knight doesn’t start showing signs that he will clearly become a solid player in any role then the team will have to go forward as though Knight will never contribute to a good team. I agree with this sentiment. This team might be looking to fill both guard spots this off season, and if they do then Knight would not have a clear cut role on the team next year.

  • Feb 26, 20139:08 pm
    by Sop

    Reply

    Who would do a sign and trade with Milwaukee: Jennings for Knight?

    • Feb 27, 201310:50 am
      by Huddy

      Reply

      Someone who wants to hysterically over pay for the pistons to get an older version of the same player and thinks Milwaukee will some how get better by moving from a small low efficiency back court to another small low efficiency back court.

  • Feb 26, 20139:40 pm
    by deusXango

    Reply

    The cold sobering fact is, it’s going to take unloading Knight along with Stuckey to #1, get another lottery or mid first round pick and #2, to make room for the improvements in the backcourt Dumars could use those picks for. IMHO Trey Burke and Victor Oladipo would be welcome upgrades over both Stuckey and Knight, if we don’t misplace our loyalty…my loyalty is to the team, not particular players, especially ones who under performs.

    I had to editoralize to make my point why I think Knight should be on notice. I don’t dislike him, it’s just that I’m not sold on “combo guards” leading our team back  into contention. Knight, like Stuckey are “combos.”   

    • Feb 26, 201310:22 pm
      by George

      Reply

      I agree with everything deusXango just said.

    • Feb 26, 201310:38 pm
      by Chris N

      Reply

      Trey Burke is a very talented college player but what has he done thus far to show he’s an upgrade over anyone in the Pistons current backcourt?  Same for Oladipo.  

      Both have improved since last season (Oladipo particularly so) but neither has shown that they are headed for certain stardom in the NBA yet.  Oladipo is probably more athletic than Knight and arguably more than Stuckey, but he’s the weakest of the three as a ball handler and probably the least effective shooter of the three as well.  He’s a blur when he can get out and run but I’m not sold that he’d be as effective in a half court set.  Knight is mercurial, but is at least a threat from the perimeter.  Stuckey should refrain from shooting from the arc, but is at his strongest when taking it to the rim.  He’s has a strong handle and, when he chooses to use it, the strength to be effective getting the hoop or the line.  Oladipo?  He’s gotten better, but I wouldn’t consider him an upgrade.

      Trey Burke is better shooter than Oladipo and probably Stuckey.  He’s great in the open court.  He’s quick and can get to the rim.  But he’s small, not the strongest player on the court, has Stuckey’s propensity not to be able to finish at the rim and shoots too many pull up jumpers.  He’s dwarfed by both Stuckey and Knight (and just about every other guard in the NBA) and, thus far, hasn’t demonstrated that he’s a “point guard”.  Rather he’s a scoring guard in a point guard’s body.  The exact complaint so many have lodged against Stuckey and Knight.

      If the Pistons are going to trade Stuckey or Knight, they should at least get fair value for them.  Stuckey’s a free agent at the end of next season and I would suspect his trade value will be much higher at the end of the season and heading into next season.  Not sure what Knight’s trade value will be by season’s end, but with another couple of option years left on his contract, it would make sense the Pistons should get a player at least of equal caliber if they were to deal him.  I don’t see Oladipo or Burke fitting that category this year.

      • Feb 26, 201311:18 pm
        by Chris N

        Reply

        Trey Burke is a very talented college player but what has he done thus far to show he’s an upgrade over anyone in the Pistons current backcourt?  Same for Oladipo.   Both have improved since last season (Oladipo particularly so) but neither has shown that they are headed for certain stardom in the NBA yet.  Oladipo is probably more athletic than Knight and arguably more than Stuckey, but he’s the weakest of the three as a ball handler and probably the least effective shooter of the three as well.  He’s a blur when he can get out and run but I’m not sold that he’d be as effective in a half court set.  Knight is mercurial, but is at least a threat from the perimeter.  Stuckey should refrain from shooting from the arc, but is at his strongest when taking it to the rim.  He’s has a strong handle and, when he chooses to use it, the strength to be effective getting the hoop or the line.  Oladipo?  He’s gotten better, but I wouldn’t consider him an upgrade. Trey Burke is better shooter than Oladipo and probably Stuckey.  He’s great in the open court.  He’s quick and can get to the rim.  But he’s small, not the strongest player on the court, has Stuckey’s propensity not to be able to finish at the rim and shoots too many pull up jumpers.  He’s dwarfed by both Stuckey and Knight (and just about every other guard in the NBA) and, thus far, hasn’t demonstrated that he’s a “point guard”.  Rather he’s a scoring guard in a point guard’s body.  The exact complaint so many have lodged against Stuckey and Knight. If the Pistons are going to trade Stuckey or Knight, they should at least get fair value for them.  Stuckey’s a free agent at the end of next season and I would suspect his trade value will be much higher at the end of the season and heading into next season.  Not sure what Knight’s trade value will be by season’s end, but with another couple of option years left on his contract, it would make sense the Pistons should get a player at least of equal caliber if they were to deal him.  I don’t see Oladipo or Burke fitting that category this year.  

        That said, I’d be intrigued to see Oladipo in a Pistons uniform next year.  If he’s available during the draft, pick him.  Paired with Knight, Calderon and possibly Stuckey, I think he’d be fun to watch. A supplement to the players they already have, not a replacement for them.

        • Feb 27, 20135:10 am
          by Tom Y.

          Reply

          You’re not going to find “certain stardom” outside the top 3 in the draft, and not even there on most drafts. Often even the 1st pick has some questions about him.

          Burke has 6.9 assists to 1.7 TOs per game, that seems to me like pretty good indication he can be a PG. Yeah he also scores very well. And Oladipo will at least be a much better defender than Stuckey, and maybe much more. 

      • Feb 27, 20138:41 am
        by Jon

        Reply

        if you don’t consider burke a true point guard then there is only one true point guard in the nba right now in rondo. burke is the college version of cp3. not saying he’ll be even close to that good in the pros but as a college player he is the prototypical point guard. he is always in complete control which is what you want in a point guard

  • Feb 26, 20139:48 pm
    by TDP

    Reply

    It would have been better if Stephen Colbert said this.

  • Feb 26, 201310:33 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    Like I always say, don’t listen to everything the media tells you…

  • Feb 26, 201311:25 pm
    by Chris N

    Reply

    ‘nother guy I’d be intrigued by is Shaun Livingston.  Not as a starter, but as a guy off of the bench.  I’ve caught him a few times this year for Cleveland and he impresses me with his ability to see the floor and pass the rock.

  • Feb 26, 201311:26 pm
    by Windy

    Reply

    OlapdipoI will be a piston in my mind…his defense is better than stuckey and knight easily…he has a knack for the game that may be oftenoverlooked by the search to find weakness…the guy is shooting 67% all year which is great, is he a great jump shooter no but he is very very good a every other aspect of the game, all my chips are in on Oladipo…the guy just breathes basketball and intangibles and the will to win…it’hahafa to find guys like thia nowadays…

    Buke is a very good player and would have no problem with pistons taking him but not ahead of Oladipo…I don’t know exactly where they think Burke mocks but he should be easily a 1st round pick IMO…

    Pistons going forward with Knight is not a problem…they need to still figure him out, this is a top prospect and all national highschool player that you don’t just give up on after two avg years where he did show glimpses of a nice ceiling…I wouldn’t be opposed to a trade but I’m also in no rush…I am however in a mad rush to get Oladipo

  • Feb 26, 201311:52 pm
    by robertbayer

    Reply

    Hey Feldman .. Is Calderon exactly leading the team to victories? He IS  a defensive liability, and that is a fact you cannot ignore ..  and is prone to injuries and will be 32 next season .. .. The real stupidity is moving Knight to SG … Make him back up at PG and fight it out with Bynum for that role .. Better yet .. get a decent head coach .. This team has so many problems at every position .. it is ridiculous to focus on Knight as some kind of failure .. Frank is the one who has failed .. in many many ways .. Long list on that .. Get a good coach AND then we will talk about Brandon Knight .. a player who has given his all every game ….

    • Feb 27, 201312:20 am
      by Brandon Knight

      Reply

      I love you man. You nailed it!

    • Feb 27, 20131:19 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I sure hope he hasn’t. Because if that was his all, he does not belong in the NBA.

    • Feb 27, 20134:01 am
      by oats

      Reply

      But if it is a fair competition then Knight loses. Bynum has been the better point guard this year. I can by arguments that Knight might be better suited to longer minutes than Bynum, but Bynum would a fair competition for the back up job. Then all of a sudden Knight falls out of the rotation. Considering he has given no reason to think he could ever be even an average starter at the point, I see no reason not to give Knight a chance to prove he can play shooting guard. Ultimately I think Knight is going to be a back up that plays a little bit of both guard spots.
       
      @Tarsier. He belongs in the NBA. Not in a starting lineup, but in the NBA.

    • Feb 27, 20138:18 am
      by G

      Reply

      Yeah, I don’t get blaming the Pistons’ losing streak on Calderon. The player that fits his offense best is Drummond, and they haven’t really played together. Factor in that the Pistons were playing Rodney Stuckey at the 3 until Knight went down, and you can’t blame the defense on Calderon. Who on the team CAN play defense? Supposedly Maxiell, except he’s been TERRIBLE.

      Anyway, this team is talent deficient, and as poorly as Knight’s played, his being on the bench doesn’t help the Pistons’ scoring. The best lineup this team has is probably Calderon, Knight, Singler, Monroe and Drummond, but Frank never played that lineup.

  • Feb 27, 201312:26 am
    by Brandon Knight

    Reply

    I think we should target Lebron James in 2014. We need small forward! Hey don’t doubt it, its possible.
    Drummond
    Monroe
    James
    Good shooting guard
    Bk7 
     

    • Feb 27, 20131:20 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      wtf?????

      and in this dream scenario, why not have a good pg as well? 

  • Feb 27, 201312:43 am
    by The Rake

    Reply

    Calderon is not working out too well thus far. Knight is a combo guard, but ultimately, so was/is Chauncey and that worked out for him (in year 5-6 or so). Ideally we would have a “true” PG like a Burke (stop with the Oladipo garbage BTW), but I’m not ready to give up on Knight. How much PT has he actually seen with Drummond? Is there a chance that they can mesh, because ultimately that is what this team can use looking forward into the future. Monroe is a nice complementary big, not an All Star level player in truth. I think we keep Jerebko, go with a youth movement, get a coach in who can truly develop young talent (not a hack like Frank who can;t give consistent minutes to the right people), draft a PG and  we’d have a team like this next year PG drafted -(let’s say Burke or MCW), Knight, Drummond, Monroe, Jerebko, English and Middleton, plus cap room to go after a nice SG/SF. No Calderon (though I think he can play, doesnt make sense for a team still so out of whack), No Charlie V (amnesty), trade Stuckey (if possible), No Maxiell, a new HC who can really mold young talent…we’ve improved by subtraction in so many ways. What….

  • Feb 27, 201312:56 am
    by The Rake

    Reply

    Bottom line is PG is the most difficult position to play, it takes time to learn. Knight is a hard worker and a good kid by all indications. He has great PG size and less than ideal SG size. He’s what 21? He has time (whether or not we fans and ownership have the patience is another matter).

    Oh, and I guess I forgot about Singler in last post, but I often do..I think he’s overrated on the surface, but maybe thats the Duke hater in me, I don’t know. Maybe he can play but he’s so slow, seems he can’t keep people in front of him on D. Ideally he’s suited to a glue guy role of 20 min a night IMO. Battier light.

    • Feb 27, 20131:23 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      PG is the most difficult position to play, it takes time to learn

      This is based on what? And it is very insulting to everyone who plays every other position.

      Look at the league. In the last decade, PGs have regularly been coming in and dominating right off the bat. Give me some numbers to show that PGs take longer to develop than any other position (and a couple examples of slow developing PGs–like Billups–shows no such thing, I can give you slow developing players at every position).

      • Feb 27, 20134:08 am
        by Vic

        Reply

        Exactly. 

      • Feb 27, 20137:53 am
        by Derek

        Reply

        I think all of the positions on the court have their own set of challenges and require significant development.  Still I believe the PG slot has the largest workload.  It is a role that makes others dependent on it.  Like the QB on the football field who calls the plays, reads the D, makes adjustments, gets other players into position, eases the responsibilities of the other positions, and makes the engine go (so to speak)…the PG has the same function.

        PG is usually the most skilled player.  While SG/SF may be the most athletic and PF/C may be the strongest, PG is typically tasked with being the most cerebral, the coach on the floor if you will.

        I think it’s telling when you have SFs who are capable of running the team in this fashion are often called point forwards.  This is because the expectations are so high for PGs and their workload.

        Just a few thoughts…

        • Feb 27, 20138:23 am
          by G

          Reply

          Nearly every PG shows aptitude for the position by their 2nd year, with few exceptions. Everyone mentions Billups, but he was traded in FEBRUARY of his rookie season! He played on 4 different teams in 5 years for 5 different coaches, and he was injured for a lot of his 3rd year.

          Take any semi-successful PG taken in the top 10, by year 2 their assists are up, turnovers down, and they score more efficiently. Not so with Knight.

          • Feb 27, 20132:23 pm
            by Derek

            Knight might be one of those exceptions.  Gary Payton’s assist numbers went down for 3 years after his rookie year.  Nash was up and down.  Stephen Curry’s went up for two years then went down after his third year now he’s back up.

          • Feb 28, 20138:57 am
            by G

            Payton? Payton averaged at least 6 assists per game as a rook & never had an assist-turnover ratio of less than 2-1. Nash never got PT in Phoenix, still never had an assist-turnover ratio less than 2-1. Curry, lets face it, is a combo guard & STILL his assist-turnover ratio has hovered around 2-1. Knight isn’t even close, he’s a 2-guard.

          • Feb 28, 201312:02 pm
            by Derek

            Payton first year assists 6.4 (2.2 TO), second year 6.2 (2.1 TO), third year 4.9 (1.8 TO), fourth year 6.0 (2.1 TO).  Assists numbers helped greatly by personnel and the uptempo offense the team ran.

            He was by his own admission, erratic.  He had good numbers without a tremendous feel for the game.  His development was helped by playing with (season vet pg) Nate McMillan.

            Beyond that…
            It took GP three years to average double figures in points.  BK7 averaged 12.8 and 13.6.
            It took GP four years to have a three point shooting percentage higher than 27%.  BK7 shot 38% and 37%.  GP developed into one of the best guards in his time. 

            There is hope…
            The point I’m trying to make is GP went through the process and developed into a great guard via hard work and dedication.
            BK7 has those intangible attributes, so there’s hope for him.

      • Feb 27, 20131:15 pm
        by The Rake

        Reply

        @tarseier and vic
        No disrespect, but if you don’t know that much about basketball, then I really have nothing else to say.

        As an aside, it is funny how people call Monroe soft. I’m not sure he’s soft at all. Slow of foot? Yes. A poor athlete? Perhaps. Soft? No. Drummond can make up for deficiencies through sheer athleticism. Someone like Monroe has to get it done through smarts, positioning, etc. He has been good at doing that. He reminds you of a poor man’s Duncan in some ways, and that’s not bad company to keep. He’s not a franchise cornerstone but he’s a capable player without question.

        Ultimately, with Knight discussion, Calderon, etc. – the question is what do we all want? Do you want a team that makes the playoffs only to get thrashed by Heat or Pacers? Or do you want a team that can grow and compete at the highest of levels in 3-4 years. To me, I’d rather have the latter, hence I’m ready to continue the rebuild with a better coach of young talent and continuing to build on the base that we have to continue to understand what we really have. We will not sign BIG name FAs. History shows that they aren’t coming to the D. A trade, which helps to have nice young assets to get them done, is a different matter. I’m hoping Frank gets canned and we get the right man in charge to lead this group. We need to model ourselves on the Pacers, Spurs, old Pistons teams, IMO.

      • Feb 28, 20133:21 am
        by T Casey

        Reply

        @ Tarsier
        Many ex-players have said that pg is the hardest position for young players to master. Almost unanimously from what I can remember.  I can’t think of any specific names who’ve said it, but I’ve heard it so much that I understood that it was common knowledge. The only other position that gets about as much consideration in the “difficulty to master” department is center because of the defensive responsibilities involved.

        But, to answer your question, the reason it’s the most difficult to learn is mainly because it’s the 1 position that’s expected to manage the flow of the entire offense. Basically 2′s and 3′s are mostly focused on getting open and scoring or making a play for someone else as a second option while 4′s and 5′s are usually battling for low post position and setting screens for the smaller guards and 3′s and setting up pick and rolls on offense and of course scoring and setting up teammates when they get the ball. Meanwhile the pg has to not only look to score and set other guys up for easy points but he’s expected to know his personel better than anyone to know where his teammates are most effective with the ball so the offense can be as efficient as possible. They have to realize when to push the tempo and when to slow it down and run certian go-to sets for a multitude of different reasons and also recognize the lineups on the floor on both teams to know what mismatches can be exploited to know who to run the offense through at times for easy baskets. And that’s just off the top of my head. Basically it’s ideally the 1′s responsibility to not only get points and assists, but to micro-manage the entire offense to make it as efficient as possible. That’s undeniably a tougher job than any other on offense.

        However, a big reason point guards have been so effective lately starting out is because so many of these young guys are so incredibly quick and athletic that they can score enough to offset their lack of floor generalship starting out. For instance, guys like Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook especially, and even a bunch of the 2nd tier pg’s are impressive players but not necessarily great at managing games. They’re so great individually that they can set things up for others because of the great their individual scoring games are. Sp basically most of the top young pg’s play more like sg’s than pg’s these days. They haven’t really mastered the finer point guard skills, but they still manage to be incredibly effective.

        Steve Nash recently said something to the same effect when remarking on the younger generation of pg’s. They’re so athletically gifted they don’t have to master the finer points as much to make their teams better. But mastering those finer skills at the point guard position is still not only the most challenging thing to do for young players but also necessary for players who aren’t freakishly athletic. ie the Chris Pauls, Deron Williamses, Jrue Holidays, and      Knight if he wants to reach that level. 

  • Feb 27, 20131:23 am
    by Mrshourite

    Reply

    Pretty weak sample size to judge Calderon’s impact. Given the fact that Awesome Dre is hurt and that Maxiell is playing horrible…still, and that Bullwinkle is getting DOMINATED by opposing front lines. 

    • Feb 27, 20133:12 am
      by Venice

      Reply

      I agree .Monroe is too soft. He is not suitable here in Detroit where defense is the priority than offense. If we can only trade him with Stuckey’s expiring contract this offseason to Aldridge and a couple of draft picks. We would really be ready to make a run at the playoffs.

      • Feb 27, 20134:08 am
        by oats

        Reply

        Who gets the picks? Is it them? It should be Portland. Aldridge is really good. I consider myself a Monroe fan, and I really don’t get the desire to trade him. If we can upgrade from him then so be it, but I don’t see it as a priority or anything. All that said, Portland gets at least a 1st in that deal, and probably more than that.

      • Feb 27, 20138:58 am
        by G

        Reply

        Monroe is less soft than clueless on D. He loses his man on D ALL THE TIME. He should be playing next to Drummond, then I’m guessing we’ll hear less of this “Monroe is soft” stuff. The guy rebounds like crazy, that’s not soft. He just doesn’t always know where to be on defense, and he doesn’t have ANY + defenders to help him out/cover for him.

        • Feb 27, 201311:25 am
          by Huddy

          Reply

          He is also top 5 in FT attempts for big men, which is not soft.  I hope we stop hearing this soft stuff soon.  I’m not sure how so many people find it easy to criticize our most productive player especially considering he is also young and on a bad team.  Drummond should help a lot moving Monroe to his natural position and getting Maxiell out of there so we aren’t so undersized will all help fill int he gaps for the team as a whole on defense.  I know people are suggesting trading Monroe for an upgrade and ok I guess you want to improve the team, but most of the suggestions are really out there.  Aldridge?  why would portland move him?  Love? really?  This isn’t a video game.

  • Feb 27, 20139:17 am
    by Jacob

    Reply

    The only way we trade Monroe is for Aldridge or Love. Still this would probably take a lot more than just Moose, who still has a year left on his rookie deal.

    • Feb 27, 20139:24 am
      by Venice

      Reply

      Well that’s why I added the expiring contract of stuckey right?we might add some future draft picks. But I guess that time, we will be contending for the title so those picks that are given to them will not be that valuable.

  • Feb 27, 201311:04 am
    by Huddy

    Reply

    SO sick of this Knight debate.  All of the Knight lovers can talk about potential and systems and being too young and compare him to players like Chauncey Billups and maybe one day we will find out they are right.  The real issue is that none of those opinions are based on how he actually has played.  People who discuss the possibility of Knight not being our PG of the future point to his inefficient scoring and passing and slow development, which are all actual facts and hard percentages.  Chauncey Billups became great, Jrue Holiday became great, and Tony Parker became great, but being objective and watching them when they were starting out the smart basketball fan wouldn’t have guessed that they would be great.  It is exactly the same with Knight, if he bursts out of the gates in his 3rd, 4th or 5th year I will be ecstatic, but that is not what his numbers and comparisons to MOST good PGs tells me. 

    • Feb 28, 20134:52 am
      by T Casey

      Reply

      @Huddy
      “Chauncey Billups became great, Jrue Holiday became great, and Tony Parker became great, but being objective and watching them when they were starting out the smart basketball fan wouldn’t have guessed that they would be great.”

      Well now, that depends on what you consider a smart basketball fan to be. If by that you mean the fans that seemed to simply go along with the general consensus and looked almost solely to stats to predict future development with little or no consideration to the other intangibles those players possessed that play as big a role, if not bigger, in a player’s development, then I guess you’re right. However, I’m sure that the people who had faith in those players early on were considered unreasonably optimistic or just blind fanatics at the time. But, in the end, it turns out that some of them were actually more knowledgeable than the supposed “smart fans” who wrote those players off.

      It’s easy to write fans off as blind fanatics when supporting a player who’s clearly struggling, especially when they disagree with the general consensus. But, the fact is, there are other things to look at than simply how a player is performing now, especially at what’s widely recognized as the most difficult position in the sport to master. So, as it pertains to Knight, only time will tell who’s right and which fans honestly knows their ish and who’s just full of it.

      Also, I’d like to add another great pg to the list who struggled tremendously his first few years in the league, Steve Nash. When you look at it closely, that equates to about half or slightly over half of the best/greatest pg’s of the past decade or so that struggled mightily to start their careers. I think that shows a few things to be highly misunderstood about the position in general.
      1. That it’s actually not unusual at all these days for even the best pg’s to struggle starting out, even for multiple years.
      2. The development curve for young pg’s is less predictable, based solely on stats, than most other positions either partly or largely because many of the skills they are expected to master don’t actually have a direct statistical indicator.

      As such, atm, Knight isn’t actually much out of line in terms of the development curve of great pg’s these days. Sure he’s not freakishly athletic enough to cover his deficiencies like Rose or Westbrook and he doesn’t have the amazing, almost once in a generation, feel for the game or polish starting out that Kyrie Irving does, but, he does posess a lot of the same qualities and  stats that many of the the best pg’s of the past ten or so years have/had.

      Now I understand that the franchise can only be so patient with any 1 player when trying to build and develop an entire team and there’s no guarantee that Knight will figure things out and become a top tier pg, but I think I’ve made a pretty good case that the man deserves a little more time figuring out the position before we declare him not starting pg material.

      • Feb 28, 201311:42 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        By smart basketball fan I just mean what is most likely.  Not that guys with a lot of basketball knowledge don’t see things in players that others don’t, I get that, but I don’t see a whole lot of solid reasoning for this with BK fans on here.  I hear a lot of excuses about the coach making him worse and having too much pressure as a young kid “having” to start, which many other guys would love the opportunity to do.  These are professionals and are accountable for themselves so I don’t want to hear about all the reasons why other people aren’t allowing him to succeed.  Heres the thing about some of those examples you gave, Steve Nash didn’t get the opportunity to start on his team to start off his career or his second year and actually didn’t play a full season for 5 years.  This is exactly the same is Billups, he was tossed around teams and hurt missing a large number of games to start his career.  Jrue Holiday didn’t start his first year and was a considerably better passer his second year and comparable scorer.  Tony Parker is the only one really in a similar situation, but if you look at his numbers he was pretty consistent since year 2 besides his scoring going up as his role was more important (and added attempts) on a good Spurs team where he didn’t need to shoulder a huge role.  I don’t specifically remember the feelings about these guys when they were starting out, but it is very difficult to tell me that they are good examples to compare to BK who has been given the chance and the minutes to prove himself on a team where he can be featured and a team that is admitidly rebuilding, which takes some of the pressure off.    Because of this I don’t think a lot of these comparisons are fair it isn’t so simple to say he started his career off like a lot of great PGs did because he has the luxury or playing time and being (major)injury free, and given that luxury he should be on a higher level than these guys who didn’t get a chance to shock us from the beginning.  Lastly, I get the intangibles argument and understand you can’t purely go off stats.  That being said I don’t see flashes of court vision and passing growth.  I see flashes of scoring spurts, but not the other important parts of the PG game.  I like him better at SG, but even given improvement I am not a big fan of having a score first PG on a team with such important post talent, so if he is getting better at scoring, but I don’t see him having a knack for getting his team involved I am not excited about his prospects as a PG.

        • Feb 28, 20131:25 pm
          by T Casey

          Reply

          Those are good points. But I do think there are some similirities you’re overlooking. But, I’ll just leave it be seeing as we both agree, I think, that it only means so much either way and we’ll only find out down the road what player he turns out to be.

          And I wouldn’t say that all his supporters knew their stuff either if he did turn his game around. As I said earlier, some of the supporters of these guys who struggled early on do, but then some are actually just blind supporers. Although, you did acknowledge that a bit in your first post so I must have misread you on that part. 

          And I agree as well that a player is accountable first and foremost for his own development, but having a poor coach will not help a player’s progression much, if at all, and can actually hurt it at times. And that goes for all the young guns on the team not just Knight. Coaching is about as important in your typical players development as it is in the team’s overall play. It’s unreasonable to expect any team, especially a young one, to play to their potential under a poor coach. In fact, I’d be more surprised if they did manage to play to their potential than if they struggled to be consistent and string wins together in that kind of a situation.

          But, in any event, that’s where we’re at as a team and hopefully things get better moving forward. Some changes def need to be made. Let’s just hop the team makes the right ones.

      • Feb 28, 201311:46 am
        by Huddy

        Reply

        Also, the “only time will tell” thing was my whole point.  We will only know when it happens, but I wouldn’t say that if he pans out ALL his supporters “knew their ish”  it is entirely possible that they had faith in a guy because of being stubborn or whatever and it worked out.  Of course some people have real reasons to like him but for others its like betting, just because you come out on top doesn’t mean it was the “best” choice.  But only time will tell is right and if BK works out then all pistons fans should be happy.

  • Feb 27, 201311:12 am
    by Mrshourite

    Reply

    Preach!

  • Feb 27, 20132:14 pm
    by George

    Reply

    If there is any position I feel we should have no shame going with a vet, it is PG.  the development of Drummond and Monroe will only be stunted with Knight playing with the starters.  I am sure JoeD knows this or else he wouldn’t be open to paying Calderon $8+ million/yr for the next few years.  Besides Drum and Moose, we will also probably have youngsters at SF and maybe SG too, so having a steady hand lead the point will help with everyone’s growth.  We have 2 nice anchors to build around.  We can’t stunt their growth by trying to work on Knight.

    I liken this situation to going to a fancy steakhouse and ordering the best cut steak on the menu, but having the apprentice cook it.  Maybe he gets lucky and makes it right, or he may overcook it and ruin it.  Is it worth the risk not having the head chef cook it?  We can’t afford to have an apprentice learn on the job while sacrificing top cuts of steak.

    If you haven’t realized already, Dre and Monroe are steaks and Knight it is the apprentice in this analogy.

    • Feb 28, 20135:12 am
      by T Casey

      Reply

      Do you guys not seriously think that the coach plays a significant role in these guys’ development as well? Lawrence Frank has mismanaged Drummond already in his first season and by extention Monroe who’s struggling to man the middle. In addition, Frank can’t be helping Knight’s development much either. So if Dumars, and fans who seem to agree with that sentiment, are misguided enough to think that the biggest thing holding this team and it’s players back is a point guard who’s underperformed for only going on a year and not the team’s perennially pathetic coach, then don’t be surprised when this team continues to be mismanaged and we continue to hover around nba limbo. Not good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to get great draft picks.

      And I’d like give you a little restaurant analogy of my own from personal experience. Even the most promising restaurants and quality employees can fail if poor management (Joe D) puts a poor head chef (Frank) in control of the kitchen. You can’t expect your trainees or apprentices or whatever you want to call them to consistently put together a great product when they are learning from and being lead by a poor head chef with little knowledge of how to make great dishes or run a kitchen effectively.

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