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Ben Gordon spreads #buffoonery from Detroit to Charlotte

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports has a report on former Piston Ben Gordon that should sound familiar to fans who followed Detroit’s John Kuester era:

As Dunlap led the Bobcats in a morning shootaround on Monday before a victory over the Celtics, Gordon refused Dunlap’s request to stop bouncing a ball as the coach spoke, sources said. Before long, Gordon began baiting Dunlap, telling him that he needed to “humble himself,” sources said.

Gordan refused to give the ball to Dunlap, and eventually tossed it toward a ball rack, sources said.

Bobcats general manager Rod Higgins was in the practice session and ultimately intervened, sources said.

“Beyond disrespectful,” was how one league source described the scene.

Wojnarowski had this report in February 2011 on a certain other former Pistons shooting guard who was at the time, like Gordon currently is in Charlotte right now, struggling:

As stunned coaches and teammates watched, Hamilton bellowed at Kuester that he had been a failure in his two seasons in Detroit, blown the opportunity the franchise afforded him and was nothing more than a career assistant coach, sources said. Despite Hamilton yelling within inches of him, Kuester didn’t respond.

Several of the team’s younger players were mortified watching it and privately told agents and associates they wished they had the courage to stand up, confront Hamilton and try to take control back from the disgruntled veteran.

A couple of things immediately stood out to me about this report. First, although Gordon never seemed to express his displeasure in a disruptive way in Detroit, at least to this extent, I’m even more glad he’s gone, even if the price to get rid of him was a steep one.

But second and more importantly, contrast how those situations were handled. According to Wojnarowski’s report, Charlotte’s GM immediately intervened on behalf of his coach.

In Detroit, Joe Dumars offered very little (or some would say ‘no’) public support for the coach at the time. As we saw, the locker room friction between players and coach continued to get worse, resulting in the infamous shootaround boycott later that season.

Anyway, what were we talking about again? Oh yeah, Ben Gordon is terrible and no one wants him.


  • Feb 14, 20131:06 pm
    by Jodi Jezz


    I’m still a fan of Ben Gordon, but you can tell he’s tired of playing on sorry teams…I hope he’s traded to the Nets or another franchise that’s playoff bound…

    • Feb 14, 20131:21 pm
      by bball4224


      Yeah I like him too, yeah we overpayed him but I like the dude. He was one of the FEW who seemed to not create problems while he was here. Charlie, Ben, Will…. Hmmmm I can’t even think of whoelse DIDN’T start crap at one time or another during Kue’s tenure.

      • Feb 14, 20131:26 pm
        by DrumRoe Please



        • Feb 14, 20134:53 pm
          by bball4224


          Wow…. Pretty sad when I was quickly thinking of every1 I didn’t think of Monroe lol.
          I don’t think Jerebko did either. Dajuan Summers too but yeah…

      • Feb 14, 20133:54 pm
        by sebastian


        I’ve always been a Ben G. fan, too; but not at $12 million per. He would be a perfect fit on the Nets team and would be playing near the crib, too.

    • Feb 14, 20132:07 pm
      by tarsier


      If he wanted to be on a good team, he could easily negotiate a buy-out. He is being paid 8 figures to play on bad teams. Suck it up and can the attitude or put your money where your mouth is. I bet the Bobcats would be thrilled to pay him $5M to leave and then he could get another $2-3M from another team like the Nets.

      • Feb 14, 20136:44 pm
        by gmehl


        Well said tasier. If his only excuse is he’s tired of playing on bad teams then come to terms on a buyout and sign with a better team. I don’t dislike Gordon but i kind of feel like he robbed us of 3 years of good basketball. Is it all his fault? No, but i’m sure we all agree that he didn’t come close to full filling half of his contract. If i had to put a percentage on it i would say he full filled about 30% of it. When your collecting the kind of money he is then disrespecting your coach like that is unacceptable.

        This is where getting a rookie coach in Mike Dunlap was set up to fail much like Curry and Kuester. Dunlap has coached for a long time but this is his 1st NBA head coaching job and that is all NBA vets really respect when it comes down to it. I for one and not sad to see the back of Gordon. 

  • Feb 14, 20131:27 pm
    by Jordan


    Anyone else having some sort of issue with the website for the last week or two? Red background that extends up over the headline.

  • Feb 14, 20132:03 pm
    by tarsier


    Good to be rid of BG. But Dumars could have accomplished that with the amnesty clause. No need to give away a first round draft pick. Those are basketball gold.

    • Feb 14, 20132:37 pm
      by Jens


      I have a completely different point of view on Ben Gordon. I don´t think he´s a lockerroom cancer or anything like Rip in the Kuester days. I think he´s a very skilled offensive player who was on the brink of becoming a star, when Joe D overpaid for him slightly. Then BG hurt his ankle, lost a step and is not th same player anymore. He still got a good jumper, still can get hot, but is inconsistent.He probably should be worth around 5 or 6 mill. a yearright now. As long as he keeps his current contract and doesn´t agree a buyout he´s dead weight.

      Mike Dunlap is a joke, though! He´s playing Henderson , Sessions and rookie Jeff Taylor in front of BG. I´d be insulted as well…..

      BG would be a great pickup for the Pistons at a cheap price!

      • Feb 14, 20132:46 pm
        by Patrick Hayes


        “Mike Dunlap is a joke, though! He´s playing Henderson , Sessions and rookie Jeff Taylor in front of BG. I´d be insulted as well”

        He’s doing that for a couple reasons. First, Gordon has been awful for about 8-10 weeks since his hot start to the season. Second, those other players, particularly Henderson and Taylor, are young, cheap players and Charlotte has a front office that is committed to doing an actual rebuild, not playing limited veterans who may get the team another meaningless win or two at the expense of trying to develop young talent. Charlotte is doing it right, and that sucks for veteran players like Gordon, but as tarsier pointed out above, if he’s desperate to leave, he could easily have his agent negotiate a buyout.

      • Feb 14, 20134:20 pm
        by tarsier


        It’s true that the bloated contract Dumars gave Gordon didn’t look nearly as bad at the time. But it offered little potential to be exceeded and a lot to be underperformed. That is stupid.

        If Gores would have signed off on amnestying BG, the Maggette trade was inconceivably bad. But maybe I should still give Joe the benefit of the doubt that that wasn’t an option.

        • Feb 15, 20132:10 pm
          by frankie d


          yes, the contract joe signed him to looked bad, by its own terms and it looked even worse considering detroit’s roster at the time.
          when he signed BG he already had rip and afflalo – and stuckey and bynum as “point guards” – at the shooting guard spots.  where, exactly did gordon fit?  obviously he did not fit, and those who noted it at the time were correct, as the last few years clearly showed. 
           dumars also gave him more than chicago was willing to pay him.  in the year before BG left chicago, he went through a serious negotiation with the bulls on a new contract and the reports were that chicago would not put more than 50 mil/5 years on the table.
          chicago knew him better than any team and they wouldn’t overpay him like joe did.
          yea, gordon is overpaid.  yea, he is apparently an a@@ in charlotte.  it sucks to be a vet and see young guys who don’t know half as much as you taking your PT.  
          but the biggest fool in the BG fiasco is still joe dumars because he signed him to that ridiculous contract and then he had to give up a first round draft choice in order to try to wipe away his horrible mistake. 

          • Feb 15, 20133:18 pm
            by tarsier

            Even worse, he didn’t have to give up a first rounder to clean up the mess. Especially with the Tayshaun trade, there could be plenty of cap room even with BG still on the roster (and then there’s the amnesty provision). But he gave up the first rounder anyway, making things even worse.

          • Feb 15, 20133:51 pm
            by frankie d

            i never understood the magette/bg trade.
            i mean, i get the financial benefits of the trade for detroit – essentially selling a first round choice for a very high price/cap space, etc. – but, imho, CV should have been the guy they dumped in that fashion.
            i just think that gordon  more value to the team and as a trade asset.  he could have probably enhanced that value if he’d played a half season as a long range bomber while drummond was punishing people down low.
            was gordon overpaid?  yes.
            was he that bad?  i didn’t think so. 
            i think Jens has it pretty much right about BG.  (not agreeing with his dunlap comments or the comments about rookies, but i think he nails gordon’s situation.) 

  • Feb 14, 20132:05 pm
    by Ryank


    Something tells me Joe D was at the end of his rope with the previous owner.  His contract probably expired and they didn’t renew it because they wanted to sell the team.  Who knows what else was going on.  I remember hearing Joe say that he did address the issue privately…
    I can see why everyone was upset at that time; Joe D, Rip, and the rest of the team.  It’s a tough situation to go from a boardline great team to terrible.  Joe D felt no loyalty to Billups because of his attitude of entitlement and half assed effort year after year in the playoff…traded him and upset Rip.  Joe expected Rip and Tay to take over the leadership and neither guy was or ever will be a leader.  Joe hires a couple of low cost, low ability coaches, think Stuckey is the next Billups, and wagers the next 5 years on CV and BG.  Mr. D dies.  According to Joe d, he’s not allowed to correct his mistakes and the team has to deal with the problems, attitudes, bad feelings, and bad players for years. 

    • Feb 14, 20132:10 pm
      by tarsier


      He could have traded Tay for Butler and a first rounder. The fact that he didn’t means he wasn’t serious about building the team for the future. I’m convinced there were other moves he could have made, but we don’t know about them.

      And you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think Butler could have been had back at the same rate as Tay. Or if you don’t think Memphis would have been just as happy with Butler as with Prince. 

      • Feb 14, 20132:20 pm
        by Ryank


        It was a screwed up time in Piston history.  We can say Joe did a terrible job or sat on his hands…the fact is Joe D did a good job when Mr. D was around.  He made mistakes, but quickly and decisively corrected them…turning straw into gold many times.  When Karen Davidson took over, that’s when we saw things go the other way.  He signed CV and BG before she took over, but according to Joe he wasn’t allowed to do what he had to do to correct his mistake.  Looking at what happened before Karen and what’s happened since, Joe’s take on it is more believable than that of a lot of fans who are calling him an idiot.

        • Feb 14, 20132:41 pm
          by Otis


          What, pray tell, do you suppose Joe could have done with that clusterf*k of a roster he put together? He had just dumped Afflalo (who was a prototypical Piston from the start and would be one of our best players today) to make room for and overpay Gordon (who never made sense to sign with Rip on the roster), dumped Amir (after having passed up plenty of opportunities to trade him for value), and so on…

          Rip at 4 years 48 mil, BG at 5 years 58 mil, CV at 5 years 38 mil, Tayshaun making eight figures, Max at 4 years 20 mil. These were our major salary obligations. What on earth do you suspect Joe could have done to fix this mess aside from wait for all this money to come off the books and/or pay to make it go away? If you think he could have traded Rip for Boozer at any point, y’all need your head examined. Joe made a disaster and there’s nothing Karen Davidson could have done to fix that.

          I mean shit, even after the sale was completed (and these deadbeats were owed a LOT less money) what was Joe able to do to “fix” his mess? Buy Rip out for $14 million and pay Charlotte a first round pick to take Gordon off our hands. You’re fooling yourself. Can we stop making excuses for him? You can say all you want that he was pure magic with Bill Davidson as owner, but all he did was make a few terrific moves in a few years. Joe has a much longer track record of being awful than he had of being worth a damn.

          • Feb 14, 20133:06 pm
            by Huddy

            Saying Joe has a much longer track record of being awful is kind of unfair.  Putting together a championship winning team holds a lot more weight than years of rebuilding.  Look at how many teams have won a championship.  In the history of the team we have 3 and Joe put together a team to get one and to contend at a high level a couple of years besides that.  This whole era after Chauncey is definitely bad and in most ways on his shoulders, but talk to a fan of a team like the Hawks who are 60 years removed from a championship and a 10 year time frame of dropping down to the bottom and now being in a nice position of growth with Drummond/Monroe and a whole lot of cap space doesn’t seem so bad.  I am optimistic about where we go next and definitely don’t think Joe is flawless, but I just hate to see that every time someone mentions being excited to see what we do with all this cap freedom there is a Joe hater saying remember CV/BG as if there is now way he can ever make a good move again.  Getting Jose is a great first step and I look forward to the next one.

          • Feb 14, 20134:24 pm
            by tarsier

            agreed with Huddy here

            And I would give Joe the benefit of the doubt that he could turn things around if he seemed to have a direction or a plan. But I have yet to see that. Although, the Calderon trade helped. 

          • Feb 14, 20135:57 pm
            by Ryank

            Joe D has been one of the most successful GMs in the league during his tenure.  If you want to focus in on a few items, then go ahead.  The facts speak louder than your post. 
            World Championship
            Lost a World Championship in 7 games
            6 consecutive trips to the conference finals
            Belittle him all you want, those are results few teams can match over that time.

          • Feb 15, 201312:18 am
            by tarsier

            It’s an NBA championship. The arrogance of USA sports in referring to their league championships as world championships is incredible. Taking gold at the Olympics or FIBA World Cup can legitimately be called a world championship. An NBA championship cannot.

            That said, yes, he did some good work a decade ago. Not much since then, though.

            There is a basic concept in business, life, whatever. Reward right behaviors, not right results. Results have too much randomness and noise in them. Rewarding right behaviors is a better way to ensure continued right results. 

      • Feb 14, 20134:31 pm
        by inigo montoya


        I don’t know what is going on with Gordon but I think it is strange that this story about Gordon gets out before the trade deadline whereas the Hamilton story did not get out until after the trade deadline in 2011.  The timing probably does not matter that much to people immediately involved, i.e. the GMs players, and the agents, because these people probably knew about it within 24 hours of it happening and before it was public news.

        Also the sale of the team was in the process of being finalized at the trade dateline in 2011.  If I recall correctly the official reason Dumars did not pull the trigger on the Prince for Butler + 1st rounder was that the Pistons did not want to take on the guaranteed contract that another 1st rounder in 2011 would require.  It is a stupid reason basketball wise but there is a certain logic to it financially in a pending sale.  Another first round contract obligation could potentially take off as much as 10 million off the final sales price of the Pistons.  Probably the existing owner and Gores both did not want that potential trade to interfere in finalizing the sale price.

        Also I think I stated this before but I will again here, I am fairly certain the Afflalo trade was a continuation of the Billups Iverson trade with Afflalo the player to be named later. Remember Denver had financial issues then, the Nuggets gave away Camby in the summer of 2008 because they did not want to take any salary back and the Clippers had such a low payroll that they could absorb Camby’s contract. Then Denver signed Dahntay Jones for the minimum to be their starting SG and to top it off Denver probably paid $4-5 million to buy out McDyess.  No if Denver had the money they would have taken Afflalo in Nov. 2008 with Billups but they really did not want Afflalo until the next season.

        Yes Joe Dumars made some mistakes but so do a lot of GMs.  Are there better GMs, probably, but I don’t know many that Gores could hire right now.    Kevin Pritchard’s of the Pacers probably better but I don’t think he is free, Warkentien (Dumars trading partner in Denver) probably better but remember he got fired in Denver one year after being named GM of the year so realistically if you fire or buyout Dumars, just exactly who are you going to get to replace him?

        • Feb 14, 20135:11 pm
          by bvpiston


          “If I recall correctly the official reason Dumars did not pull the trigger on the Prince for Butler + 1st rounder was that the Pistons did not want to take on the guaranteed contract that another 1st rounder in 2011 would require.  It is a stupid reason basketball wise but there is a certain logic to it financially in a pending sale.  Another first round contract obligation could potentially take off as much as 10 million off the final sales price of the Pistons.  Probably the existing owner and Gores both did not want that potential trade to interfere in finalizing the sale price.”

          Ok, then take out the first rounder all together and just trade them straight up. I don’t think that was the reason. Anyway, there’s nothing Butler could have done for us then or do for us now.

          • Feb 14, 20137:37 pm
            by inigo montoya

            yes, they could have just traded Prince for Butler, but it would have looked pretty stupid, trading a perfectly healthy Prince for Butler who was sidelined with an injury for the rest of the season and both being on the last year of their contracts. 

            In February 2011 the best case for Butler then was to be back playing in mid-May.  Turns out he never did play for Dallas again despite the Mavericks playing until mid-June.

          • Feb 15, 201312:20 am
            by tarsier

            If the reason were really money, that first rounder could easily be sold or used to help take a bad contract off the books. So basically, not buying it. No way Karen would have vetoed that deal. It would have made the Pistons, if anything, more valuable.

          • Feb 15, 201310:36 am
            by inigo montoya

            Reasonable people can disagree on the worth of 26th pick in the 2011 draft,

            I personally thought the Prince for Caron Butler + the 1st rounder should have been made and the Pistons should have drafted Jimmy Butler with the pick.  I maybe got that one right, I get them wrong too, I was dead set against drafting Ty Lawson, I never thought Ty Lawson would make it in the NBA.

            It interesting to trace what Dallas turned that pick into, first Jordan Hamilton, then Rudy Ferdandez and then Dallas set Ferdandez and Corey Brewer to the Nuggets for a top 55 protected 2nd round pick in 2016!

  • Feb 14, 20133:01 pm
    by Otis


    The bottom line here is that Gordon should thank his lucky stars Dumars was stupid enough to give such a limited player such a ludicrous contract. I feel a limited amount of sympathy for guys who make PHAT paychecks and are in bad situations, and it’s got to wear on a guy when bad situations drag on and on… but that doesn’t excuse the buffoonery.

  • Feb 14, 20135:59 pm
    by Trent


    Can we trade magette for BG and a first rounder? Oh wait only one GM is that STOOOOPID!

    • Feb 15, 201312:21 am
      by tarsier


      How hilarious would it be if they seriously traded back?

  • Feb 14, 20137:17 pm
    by Danny


    What an overpaid and overrated pile of sh$t!!!  these players want to recieve respect, but dont want to give it back.  An arrogance born out of being an overpaid athelete!  Your lucky enough to make millions playing a game, maybe you should show some appreciation and humility! 

    • Feb 14, 20139:22 pm
      by gmehl


      Yeah you’re right. Just the visualisation of Dunlap addressing his players and then having Gordon dribble a ball during it screams out ‘asshole’ in my book. Who knows…maybe if he was listening he might learn something and get some more PT.

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  • Feb 14, 201311:38 pm
    by domnick


    can we trade Stuckey for Jordan Crawford?.. sorry guys im a little bit out of topic here.. i just wanna discuss trades for now

    • Feb 15, 201310:27 am
      by Huddy


      Jordan Crawfords contract is far below Stuckey’s so not likely, especially considering in John Wall’s absence he put up great numbers (even a triple double) so his value is high while for the same reasons you (and I) want to see Stuckey go his value is low.

  • Feb 14, 201311:40 pm
    by Trent


    What would of become in CHI if he stayed? D-Rose and Ben (without the attitude) is a pretty mean back court. When you look at the roster SG is the only spot that needs to be filled.

    • Feb 15, 201310:18 am
      by tarsier


      They would have BG instead of Boozer (because Gordon’s money would have eaten up the space for Carlos). You decide if that would help them or not.

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