Tayshaun Prince’s agent says Pistons won’t trade his client
Shams Charania of RealGM (hat tip: Ozzie-Moto)
When Prince signed a four-year deal with the Pistons before last season, he knew Joe Dumars gave him a generous contract that would maintain a relationship and reward him within the organization past his playing career.
Prince understands there are contending teams that he can bolster, organizations that have inquired about him. He remains a savvy defender and a versatile playmaker offensively, averaging 12.1 points and 4.7 rebounds this season. Some across the league believe Prince, at 32 years old, and the Pistons would be smart to move on from each other. Nevertheless, Prince is assured the Pistons won’t field trade offers for him, and the two sides have “never” discussed dealing Prince, agent Bill Duffy told RealGM.
“I know there are a lot of contending teams that I can help,” Prince told RealGM. “But right now, this is the team I have to help. Everybody wants to be in the position where they have a chance of winning a championship every year, but obviously it doesn’t work that way.”
I don’t know what to say anymore, man. Joe Dumars has repeatedly shown great deference to veteran players, and he appears to hold Tayshaun Prince in especially high regard. As disappointing as this report is, it really shouldn’t shock.
Look, I’m not saying the Pistons should necessarily trade Prince. They very likely could make the playoffs next season with Prince as their top small forward, so now isn’t the time to downgrade a starting spot.
But the Pistons aren’t good enough to limit their options. If a contender is willing to offer a good prospect or a good draft pick, the Pistons should explore that. As well as Prince has played this year, he hasn’t earned a gratuitous no-trade clause.
Dumars should embrace progress over comfort.
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Jan 15, 2013 • 8:09 am
by Steve K
Good lord have this not be true.
There should be no untouchables on this roster, not even Drummond. A GM simply can’t act that way. Dumars penchant to overvalue his own roster is his undoing.
Jan 15, 2013 • 8:45 am
by Tiko
I wish he felt this way about Chauncey
Jan 15, 2013 • 10:35 am
by tarsier
That team wasn’t getting back to the Finals with Chauncey. Trading Billups was not a bad move. The subsequent moves were awful.
Jan 16, 2013 • 12:20 am
by gmehl
Should’ve been RIp rather than Chauncey. Afflalo could’ve been inserted into the starting lineup and all would’ve been good…but noooooo! Just joking as hindsight is a mofo. I am sure the plan was to trade Rip but not many teams wanted him. The only deal that looked likely was the Boozer for Rip deal which Karen Davidson vetoed. Still a lineup of Billups, Afflalo, Prince, Boozer and Sheed would’ve been better than the mess we had with Iverson.
Jan 16, 2013 • 1:28 am
by Otis
Any proof whatsoever that there was ever EVER a Rip-for-Boozer deal on the table? Even a rumor with the slightest bit of substantiation? A part of me trusts that Karen would dismiss any trade out of hand, even one that clearly added value to the team, but nothing on the face of the earth would convince me that Utah would even consider that deal. This crap gets thrown around from time to time, but it just smells like more excuses for Dumars’ terrible job performance.
Jan 16, 2013 • 3:27 am
by gmehl
I wasn’t making excuses for Dumars and nor was i saying the deal was for real. I was just saying that trading Rip was the path HE should of taken. The only thing i could find really just outlines that both teams were in discussions about a swap.
http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/rumor_detroit_piston_and_utah.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Pistons-Jazz-still-talking-about-Boozer-for-Hami?urn=nba,174897
Jan 15, 2013 • 9:29 am
by ryan
I gotta say that in this instance I am glad. Tayshaun Prince was drafted here and it will mean a great deal to me as a fan to see him retire in a Detroit uniform having never worn another. It’s a classy move but also a sound one since he’s playing well and helping the youngsters grow.
Jan 15, 2013 • 10:33 am
by tarsier
Ehhh…
That’s fine and all, but in my opinion, Prince just hasn’t had a big enough impact on the franchise for it to really matter. Yeah, he was a member of a really good team that contended for half a decade and got one championship. But he was just a role player on the team, albeit a good one. This isn’t at all like Zeke spending his career in Detroit. Or Pierce spending his in Boston. Or Dirk in Dallas. This is more like if Nick Collison spends his career on the Sonics/Thunder.
Jan 15, 2013 • 12:15 pm
by Otis
It’s nice that watching Prince retire a career Piston will make you feel all warm and fuzzy, but what would make ME feel all warm and fuzzy is if the team made the necessary moves to be competitive again some day… like trading productive veterans for future assets.
Hopefully knowing Prince spent his entire career in a Pistons’ uniform will give you comfort in the coming decades of 50-loss seasons.
Jan 15, 2013 • 9:36 am
by Crispus
If Maxiell’s agent comes out and says the same thing I’ll stomp on my hat.
Jan 15, 2013 • 9:57 am
by DoctorDave
I’ll watch you eat your hat if Max’s agent says that!
Jan 15, 2013 • 9:48 am
by Matt
Prepare for the same to be said about Rodney Stuckey. Joe gets enamored with someone and that is his guy until the end. He just seems to pick the wrong guys, how about CBill over Stuckey, and Afflao (Bad Game last night, but averaging 18 ppg) over Prince?
Jan 15, 2013 • 11:04 am
by HardyHar
^ I agree.
Jan 15, 2013 • 11:11 am
by Bruce
Joe takes a lot of criticism for some of his moves. There are a lot worst GM’s out there and his past can be compared to a lot of great GM’s in history. We own the early and mid 2000′s. For instance, Boston spent a lot of cash on the Big 3 and they only won 1 ring as well. Joe D has not come close to spending that type of money.
Prince is a good guy to help transition this team. He has done something most guys don’t and won’t do that is take a leadership role while rebuilding. a lot of cats would bail the first chance they get. Also, Prnce has let it be known he whole career how appreciative e was of Jod drafting him.
Jan 15, 2013 • 12:15 pm
by Desolation Row
Need a napkin for that Kool-Aid moustache?
Jan 15, 2013 • 1:18 pm
by tarsier
There are certainly worse GMs out there. The problem with Joe is that he has never appeared to have a plan. His method is always just sit tight until an opportunity to make an incremental improvement drops into his lap.
While other GMs mortgage the present for the future or the future for the present (and sometimes succeed, sometimes flop miserably), Dumars appears totally unwilling to take a major hit to either his present or future to help the other. That’s just a bad strategy in a league in which every fan base would rather suck for a year and contend for another than be a 5-11 seed for two years.
And yeah, Dumars did a great job assembling the 2000s era Pistons. but the keys to the success of that team were the contracts of Billups and Wallace. Both were signed, when their value was low, to long-term deals at approximately the MLE. Prince being on a rookie deal helped a lot too. But this all worked because it meant that he could afford to overpay and fairly pay Rip and Sheed respectively.
Since then, Dumars has never done anything that had the same potential for success. The only guys he locked into long-term deals were BG and CV, but he got them both at premium rates. Everyone hoped they would live up to their contracts. There was basically no chance of their exceeding them.
Young guys who at least had a long shot of being like Billups and Wallace by giving the Pistons great play at well below market rates were always given short term deals. Stuckey, Bynum, Amir, Jerebko. Fans like the short term contracts because they give more future flexibility. But if you wanna build a great team under the tax, you either need superstars (which are tough to come by) or underpaid players. And the latter come through offering somewhat risky, long-term deals to guys who clearly have potential but haven’t yet proven themselves (best current examples are Steph Curry and Thabo Sefolosha–having their contracts on the books should be every team’s fantasy).
I’m fine with a GM who makes mistakes. The NBA is set up to keep anyone from bottoming out for too long. But a GM who sits on his thumbs, is risk-averse, and considers having a team that is “competing to make the playoffs” acceptable? That guy’s gotta go. I’d rather have a less skilled GM who is actually doing something and has a direction.
Jan 16, 2013 • 12:50 pm
by piro4pistons
Tarsier,
Excellent post! I agree with you wholeheartedly 100%
Jan 15, 2013 • 11:15 am
by Otis
Assuming its true, this is as concrete as proof gets (as if you’d need any more) that Dumars is not fit to do his job. He’s a fat millionaire with a cushy job where he’s WAY too comfortable, and he’s already demonstrated that maintaining his personal comfort zone is his number one priority. There should be no loyalty in sports. Joe’s allegiance should be to the team and it obviously isn’t.
I can’t tell you how heartbreaking this is.
Jan 15, 2013 • 11:20 am
by Matt
Who knows about the veracity of any of this. Could be smoke and mirrors. But yeah, if I’m Tom Gores this would have me thinking about whether I need to consider revamping the front office. On the other hand, I think there is something to be said for the whole ‘veteran presence’ bit, plus Prince has played well and up to his contract since he has moved back from being first option. What we need to is to get better at the PG and moving Prince to get younger and not better at SF is a dubious way of doing that if it means no more vets around to help steady the ship.
Jan 15, 2013 • 1:20 pm
by tarsier
Adding a vet for a one year, $1M deal is an easy thing to do. Don’t worry about the presence or absence of “veteran stability” in building a team. Worry about talent, price, and fit. In that order.
Jan 15, 2013 • 11:58 am
by vic
Prince is good… but this team needs a “game management” presence at PG even more than a veteren presence.
Its a quote from his agent so I doubt its anything more than marketing or reverse psychology PR.
But to be honest, with Dallas and LA about to be embarassed out of the playoffs, and Minnesota injured and about to miss it too, I think he could definitely be moved out west if he wanted.
Jan 15, 2013 • 12:33 pm
by Brigs
I have always liked prince and have a lot of respect for him he plays hard he’s a quiet guy and other then kuester has never com
Jan 15, 2013 • 12:36 pm
by Brigs
Complained but with the way this team is being shaped we need a shooters at the wing and 2 guard and prince just doesn’t shoot well enough to space the floor
Jan 15, 2013 • 1:57 pm
by Frankie d
Horrible, but expected news.
Have never thought joe would ever trade Tay and this kind of confirms it.
there are so many wrong things about Tay still being on the team…
he is the living embodiment of the Peter Principle. He is clearly best suited for the role he played on the title team: the 4th or 5th best player and a secondary scoring option. Joe tried to turn him into the focus of his most recent teams and he is just into good enough to fill that role. He was elevated to a level where he was incompetent.
His presence is like a log that is blocking the team’s young talent flow. Remove that log -Tay- and all of a sudden JJ, daye English and even maybe Middleton can start competing for minutes. Singler could stay on the floor at SF, his natural position.
tay’s glacially slow, ultra-deliberate style is a big reason for the trouble the starters have, offensively. While he might not be as much of a ball stopper as he has been in the paste, he still plays at an old man’s pace that just doesn’t fit with knight and Monroe and singler.
And this does not even factor in the asset(s) joe could get by moving Tay. A mid-late first round choice,+, is not out of the question.
dumars apologists have always maintained that his lack of activity was attributable to Karen d. And the team’s sale. I have never believed that argument. If this report is true, this is simply more evidence that the problem has always been joe d and not external forces.
Jan 15, 2013 • 2:32 pm
by brgulker
Dan, I don’t get this. When Prince was re-signed, you praised the signing.
Now, you’re saying Dumars ought to be shopping him?
Jan 15, 2013 • 3:01 pm
by tarsier
Dunno about Dan’s perspective, but as far as I’m concerned if there was ever any value in re-signing Prince, it was in order to trade him.
Jan 15, 2013 • 4:04 pm
by Frankie d
Exactly.
Dumars should have pulled the trigger on the Dallas/butler trade. But failing to do that, I could see signing him in order to get some type of return for him.
But bringing him back, considering his roster at the time – with both JJ and daye dying for minutes – well, that never made any sense. And it still does not…
Jan 15, 2013 • 4:24 pm
by tarsier
Agreed.
I hated that Dumars didn’t take the Butler offer. But at that point, resigning Prince didn’t seem a horrible move. Although, I did strongly dislike the particulars of the deal. As in, it should have been for three years, not four. That way, CV, BG, and Tay would all be due to come off the books together.
Jan 17, 2013 • 5:33 am
by Dan Feldman
Ben,
I said I found the signing acceptable, because it’s rarely wise to give up positive assets for no return. That didn’t mean I necessarily wanted the Pistons to keep Prince for the rest of his career.
I’m not saying the Pistons should trade him now. I’m saying they should at least explore trading him now.
Unlike when Prince was a free agent, the Pistons can handle him from a position of strength (though, it appears they’ve deferred that power back to him).
Jan 15, 2013 • 4:15 pm
by Ozzie-Moto
It Dumars that should be traded….. to any team foolish enough to take him. As i have said his deference to “his” veterans has cost this team any chance of being good for the last 5 years, This is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. Loyalty is great but his job is to the team as a whole not his PET friends
Jan 15, 2013 • 4:25 pm
by tarsier
Naw, keep him on as head of the scouting department. he can continue to help the Pistons in the one area in which he has been excellent: drafting.
Jan 15, 2013 • 8:13 pm
by Ozzie-Moto
are you out of your mind ….. Knight Monroe and Drummond all fell to JD and they were pretty much the consciences picks at that point. almost ANYONE would have picked them
Jan 15, 2013 • 8:40 pm
by Frankie d
Joe d still deserves credit for talking the guys, especially Drummond. And to some extent, Monroe. Some of the mock drafts had monroe going 9 or 10. there were pretty serious concerns about his athleticism and his motor. Drummond was looked at as a top 2 pick, once upon a time, but most GMs talked themselves out of picking him.
Imho, joe d should have been fired years ago, but you still have to give him credit for defying the conventional wisdom, about Drummond, especially.
Jan 15, 2013 • 10:21 pm
by tarsier
They aren’t the reason I believe Dumars is an excellent drafter. Try Jerebko, Afllalo, Amir, Stuckey, Maxiell, Prince, Singler…
Monroe and Drummond were just obvious choices that he, unlike many others, managed not to blow. Knight I still think should have been in a tossup with Faried and Leonard.
Jan 15, 2013 • 11:44 pm
by frankie d
was never a fan of knight’s when he was at kentucky.
he always seemed like a good college combo guard who would have trouble adjusting to life as an nba point guard.
i was actually mad when joe took another combo guard. seemed like the last thing the team needed.
i’ve actually come to like knight better than i thought i would, though i still have serious doubts about his ability to play the point. he is, however, going to be a better nba player than i thought he would be.
still, obviously, faried or leonard would have been a superior pick.
big problem is, though, that both of those players are definitely a bit unconventional, and i wonder if frank would have had the same ability to use either, as karl and popovich have done, respectively, with faried and leonard.
i could easily see lots of nba coaches, especially more conventional ones like frank, looking at faried, and thinking:
nice player, but what the heck do i do with him?
(jj is a faried-type player and frank has never really been able to use appropriately, imho.)
Jan 16, 2013 • 10:10 am
by tarsier
I don’t even mean in terms of how good the players turned out. I just mean, at the time, they belonged on the same tier on draft boards. Nobody else from that tier or higher was left. So any of them could have been the right pick. The ONLY reason that Knight was considered the obvious pick, a guy who had inexplicably fallen, was because the Jazz and Raptors (drafting third and fifth respectively) were rumored to reach for a PG in spite of better prospects still being on the board.
Somehow, Pistons fans immediately forgot that when Dumars chose Knight and have continued to forget ever since.
Jan 15, 2013 • 4:37 pm
by Frankie d
Off topic …but speaking of pistons small forwards, dajuan summers is killing it in the dleague. Saw a report that looked at the recent dleague showcase and listed him as one of 5 future NBA players.
looks like he is in shape and he’s shooting 40% from 3 point range. Still looks slow defensively, though.
when I get bored I search YouTube for the dleague games. Interesting stuff sometimes….
Jan 16, 2013 • 12:42 am
by gmehl
Ahhh that’d be like getting back with your ex-girl friend. Summers had his chance and he blew it.
Jan 15, 2013 • 8:05 pm
by Mone
It seems like Prince gets more minutes than anybody on the team… I would honestly prefer Daye… Prince is so boring to watch IMO..
Jan 16, 2013 • 9:48 am
by Scott Free
I don’t know, at this point getting rid of Tayshaun would be a little like the Lakers situation with Derek Fisher.
Jan 16, 2013 • 10:06 am
by tarsier
Do you seriously believe that Fisher would solve the problems of the Lakers?
Jan 16, 2013 • 6:00 pm
by Scott Free
I didn’t mean it that way.
I meant it would look bad trading a veteran on the final few years of an entire career spent in Detroit, having contributed so much to the Pistons and helped seal a championship for Detroit.
I don’t need to remind you how rarely that happens anymore… and honestly, what do you think you could get of value for Tay? Certainly not a starter calibre player, which Detroit needs (and nearly has in Prince).
Jan 16, 2013 • 2:16 pm
by MIKEYDE248
I don’t have a problem with the Pistons not trading Prince or him remaining with the team for the remainder of his playing days. He provied stability on both offense and defense and has been a good role model for the younger players.
My only problem is that he plays way too many minutes and is taking away minutes developing the younger players. Hopefully he will talk to Frank like Stuckey did and suggest coming off the bench and putting one of the youngsters in the starting lineup.
Jan 16, 2013 • 3:34 pm
by Crispus
I was watching the Blazers and their awful bench and wondering if we could pry Wesley Matthews or maybe JJ Hickson away in exchange for some depth/prospects (JJ, Prince, Maxiell, Daye, Bynum, Stuckey). Matthews would fill our need at SG and Hickson would be a nice upgrade over Maxiell as a third big. We could also break up some of our logjam and get PT for the young guys.
Jan 16, 2013 • 9:22 pm
by frankie d
thing is hickson could hqve been had for a song. heonly signed backwith portland – for cheap, 4 million – after he couldnt get a deal elsewhere. will never understand why dumars runs his roster like he has a team full of all stars instead of just churnimng through young talent – like hickson – till he gets his real squad.
Jan 31, 2013 • 6:56 am
by Derek
It looks like Prince’s agent was wrong.