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Pistons play poorly in loss to Pacers that most were probably not paying attention to

As you can imagine, it was hard to focus on tonight’s Pistons game with the fairly significant news from earlier today that Joe Dumars made his first unquestionably good trade since … oh … about 2004 or so. Pistons fans have coped with these last five years of bad basketball, bad coaching and bad management in a variety of ways. I’ve personally never tried to take too hard-line a stance on wanting certain players gone. Instead, I just root for things that I hate watching to go away. If that means players have to go, then so be it, but I try not to openly root for guys’ lives getting uprooted and shipped off just because I’m a pissed off fan tired of watching awful ball.

So, with today’s trade, I’m excited that I will no longer have to watch/hear about the following things:

* Austin Daye clapping his hands, putting his head down and slumping his shoulders after every missed shot, blown defensive assignment, dropped pass or general miscue. Seriously, it was depressing.

* Isolayshaun offense. Self-explanatory.

* Fans perpetuating the myth that Tayshaun Prince’s presence was blocking certain young players from reaching their potential.

Example 1: “Daye’s confidence was sunk last year when the Pistons re-signed Prince because Daye thought he was going to be the Pistons starting small forward.”

Seriously, I hated that one so much. I don’t know if Daye really thought that or was affected by it, but if he was — and I was shocked at the number of people who perpetuated that theory — then he’s insane. He’d done nothing to remotely show he was capable of being a starting SF in the NBA, even on a bad team to that point. So good riddance to that myth.

Example 2: Prince dominating the ball is preventing Brandon Knight from becoming a capable point guard.

That’s the awful and frequently repeated one from this season. And seriously, no. You know what prevents Knight from being a capable point guard? Knight not being a capable point guard. That’s it. And thankfully, now Jose Calderon’s presence will prevent Knight from being a point guard, capable or otherwise, for the rest of the season.

So anyway, this was a great trade, obviously, but I have no idea how it will work out long-term. The elephant in the room is still that all too unforgettable summer of 2009, the last time Dumars had cap space, that is surely terrifying every fan who has bravely followed the team these last few years. But in the short-term, I’m thoroughly ecstatic that a few things that drive me nuts will no longer drive me nuts. Next on my list of things I want to never watch or write about again? Shot charts like this one from Rodney Stuckey tonight:

Woof. Six 3-point attempts from a guy hitting 30 percent on the season and 28 percent for his career? Again, woof. Just stop shooting. I don’t care if you’re open. Drive into four defenders if you have to. Anything is better than a Stuckey 3-point attempt.

Detroit Pistons 79 FinalRecap | Box Score 98 Indiana Pacers
Jason Maxiell, PF 17 MIN | 1-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 2 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -7He blocked two shots, but didn’t do much of anything else. On the plus side, 17 minutes is just about right for him. That’s a trend I hope continues.
Greg Monroe, C 33 MIN | 8-17 FG | 2-6 FT | 9 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 2 BLK | 4 TO | 18 PTS | -15Indiana played very physical against Monroe, and for the most part, he was up for it. He drew contact inside (though he didn’t get rewarded for it much by the refs), he blocked shots and he had his moments defensively against Roy Hibbert. If it weren’t for his four turnovers and poor free throw shooting, he’d have easily been in B/B+ range. Also, lost in all of the hoopla of today’s trade was a great post comparing Monroe and Hibbert by J.M. today. Go check that out.
Rodney Stuckey, PG 34 MIN | 6-16 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 14 PTS | -17As mentioned above, my issue with Stuckey was solely shot selection. He just cannot take 3-pointers. He was wide open on several of his six attempts tonight and they were still way off. He’s not a good shooter, there is plenty of evidence supporting that, so for him to attempt as many threes as he does is simply ridiculous.
Brandon Knight, PG 28 MIN | 3-12 FG | 1-1 FT | 1 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 7 PTS | -9Knight only had one turnover, but that’s about all that can be said for his performance. The best part of this trade is that, for the first time, the Pistons have a superior player capable of legitimately pushing Knight at the point guard spot.
Kyle Singler, SG 30 MIN | 2-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 2 STL | 2 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -21Singler played solid defense helping limit Paul George to a bad shooting night and his reaction to Tyler Hansbrough being the annoying bro that Tyler Hansbrough is known for being was fantastic.
Jonas Jerebko, PF 19 MIN | 0-4 FG | 3-4 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | +1Jerebko was active, but that activity didn’t lead to much production. On the plus side, he played more at small forward, something many fans have wanted to see for a long time. Hopefully that continues.
Charlie Villanueva, PF 15 MIN | 1-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | -16Villanueva missed open shots and didn’t do anything helpful while he was on the court.
Andre Drummond, C 24 MIN | 1-3 FG | 2-10 FT | 14 REB | 1 AST | 2 STL | 3 BLK | 1 TO | 4 PTS | -3Drummond was a monster, once again. On top of his rebounding and blocked shots — which we’ve come to expect — Drummond exhibited quick hands, coming up with two steals and getting knockaways on two other plays that were called fouls but looked pretty questionable.
Viacheslav Kravtsov, C 3 MIN | 2-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 4 PTS | -1Hey, Kravtsov played! He got a couple of dunks, but also made contact with Pacers guard Orlando Johnson on a layup attempt by Johnson then promptly crumpled to the floor and died. Kravtsov is athletic, but still obviously has no idea what to do with that athleticism.
Will Bynum, PG 23 MIN | 6-12 FG | 1-2 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 13 PTS | -13Bynum shot well, which is more than many of his teammates can say, but his shot selection wasn’t always great and he turned it over four times.
Kim English, SG 14 MIN | 2-6 FG | 2-2 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 6 PTS | -4English played solid minutes. I wish he would’ve got one of his 3-point attempts down, but he did enough to justify a continued crack at regular minutes. He also gets major points from me for flagrantly fouling Hansbrough, my least favorite player in the history of basketball.
Lawrence FrankDrummond played 24 minutes after playing 28 last night, and he would’ve played more if he didn’t pick up three first half fouls. That alone gets Frank a decent grade. As far as the blowout loss? Much like last night’s game, there’s not much blame you can put on a coach when guys just flat out miss good looks as the Pistons did a lot tonight.

Yes, I am alive and well

A few of you have noticed that I’ve been scarce around these parts lately (seriously … thanks for noticing, makes me feel really appreciated). I just wanted to take a second and give an explanation, something I probably should’ve done in the first place.

First of all, I’m not going anywhere. As long as Dan is running this site, I’ll be here contributing in some capacity. I’ve always prided myself on being honest and unfiltered, whether my opinions are right or wrong, with readers, and I’ll try and do the same here. I was getting burnt out. This team, at times, is hard to watch, as you all know. As you can imagine, that also makes the team pretty hard to write about. There were several times over the first half of this season where I felt like I was being repetitive, where I felt like I wasn’t bringing anything new or relevant to the table and, to be completely blunt about it, I was just bitching about the countless things that this organization does wrong. Don’t get me wrong. There’s a place for bitching. Just ask Detroit Bad Boys (I kid, I kid … I love those guys and they’ve been even more fantastic since Matt Watson has come back full force over the last month or so*).

* Seriously, I scale back my writing slightly over the last month or so and I’m getting harassed about  being dead, but Watson, who has been cryogenically frozen since like the ’07 season is all of a sudden back and in a matter of days the king of Pistons blogging again and no one bats an eye? The Free Press needs to be writing about this. It’s Matt effing Watson! One of the best NBA bloggers of all time!

As I said, a good rant is fine. It has just never worked for me or felt right for me as a writer. I tend to be too cynical, so when I allow myself to get into a negative mode writing, it snowballs and I soon start to feel incapable of writing without any of that negative bias seeping in. The fact is, I want to watch this team objectively. I want to see the young players on this team succeed. I want the real Joe Dumars to return and overthrow his evil twin who has been running the show since roughly the Nazr Mohammed signing (and maybe the Calderon trade is a sign that that coup has been staged). I want to believe that evidence exists suggesting Knight can be the point guard this organization desperately wants fans to believe he is. I want the real Lawrence Frank, the guy who is well-spoken, who worked his ass off through the ranks to get an opportunity as a NBA coach, who is respected by Hall of Fame players like Jason Kidd and Kevin Garnett, to show up here and figure out that the best way to win games is playing your best players the most minutes. I want those things and I don’t want to write with a cynical lens that makes it seem like I don’t want the team to succeed when the reality is I want nothing more as a sports fan. With that in mind, I think a step back to recharge is in order. I want to watch the team more without the pressure of trying to say something new in a recap. More importantly, I want to spend more time reading the work of others, NBA and otherwise, and work on some creative inspiration to provide content here that is at the level that PistonPowered readers have grown to expect. You guys deserve better than someone who is conflicted or not fully invested at all times, so in order for me to get back to that point, I need to spend some time doing less.

The second factor is a little less boring but more important to me personally. PistonPowered is a hobby for me that, because I tend to be on the obsessive compulsive side, often became like a second full-time job that I do on top of my day job that actually does things like ‘allow me to wear clothes’ and ‘allow me to eat food.’ When I stepped back and actually evaluated how much this site, its growth and its success consume me, I had to re-evaluate. Between writing posts and the hundreds of retorts I was writing in the comments on a monthly basis, I needed to get my home priorities straight. I don’t want watching basketball with my son to entail me also being in front of a computer at all times too. I don’t want my wife to have to plan stuff around whether or not I have to write about a game three or four nights a week. I want to be able to go watch my brother play basketball at Lawrence Tech. Those were things that I was letting fall through the cracks so that I could waste time spending 1,000 words pointing out in the comments why bugsygod is an idiot. And let’s be honest … there are so many smart commenters on PistonPowered these days, that I don’t need to do that sort of thing. You guys are fully capable of sorting out who is informed and who isn’t on your own. In the early days of this site, I thought it was important to help set a tone, and part of that meant responding with snark and sarcasm to comments I felt were below a standard of intelligent discourse that we wanted here. Basically, my fear with comments was that this place would turn into YouTube or Yahoo! or MLive comments sections where anything goes if we weren’t aggressive when it came to pointing out (and laughing at) comments that were dumb or lacked substance or were unwelcome. But now? We have a really vibrant community down there with people who are articulate, funny and bring a wide variety of well-argued opinions to the table. As much as I enjoy interacting with people (even those people who I’ve fought with), I’m not needed anymore. I still read them, I still laugh at the ones that are funny (either intentionally or unintentionally) and I’m still thankful that so many people take the time to read, let alone comment.

So, to wrap up what I originally intended to be a quick note, yes, it’s true — I’ll probably be a bit more scarce, but I’m also not going anywhere. And honestly, the content here, whether it’s written by me or not, is in good hands. I honestly can’t wait to read Feldman’s long-form post kicking Prince on his way out of town the way he kicked Rip Hamilton (kidding again!). And if you haven’t followed much of J.M., Brady or Jameson’s posts yet since they’ve come on board, check them out. They all bring different, interesting voices to the table. PistonPowered is in great hands and I’ll continue to be a part of it for the long haul, helping in any way I can.


  • Jan 30, 201310:06 pm
    by MNM


    Wow, Patrick, many thought you were dead! Good to see your not!

  • Jan 30, 201310:07 pm
    by Prelove


    nice to see you back. this article was bad ass.

  • Jan 30, 201310:10 pm


    TRADE KNIGHT!…im all for it…

  • Jan 30, 201310:10 pm
    by George


    Yeah, I don’t get why people are excited about the trade, we gave up a helluva practice player in Prince, and the Michael Jordan of Summer League ball in Daye.

    All joking aside, I am excited to see how te new lineups work out.  Hopefully, BK will be a sg. 

    • Jan 30, 201310:21 pm
      by I HATE FRANK


      i’d rather trade Knight than make him an undersized SG…in this slow predictable offense…

      I wasnt even a Knight fan in Kentucky, but I knew he was NEVER going to be TRUE PG or a Pass first PG…

      watch is HS footage and college footage.. he is a scorer, who is a willing passer…

      Putting him at the 2 will be very counter productive…i kinda feel like he is gonna turn into Stuckey prt 2.

      Trade him now he just turned 21 last month, his young and potential gives him worth…see can you get a draft pick


      • Jan 30, 201310:51 pm
        by Worm


        Sooo playing Knight, a natural scorer as you say, at the SG would be counter productive? Sounds reasonable…

        • Jan 31, 20137:52 am
          by I HATE FRANK


          Being a scorer…and being a 2 is not the same…

          some scorers need the ball in there hand to create dribble pentration…

          Some 2′s … score from running off screens for jumpers and spotting up for jumpers…

          Knight is scorer, with a jump shot, but he has always had the ball in his hands…

          to take it out his hand, and say move him to the 2….its counter productive…

          he now sit on the wing or in the corner chucking 3′s, if he was chucky atkins that fine ..but he is not….

  • Jan 30, 201310:23 pm
    by Vince


    “You know what prevents Knight from being a capable point guard? Knight not being a capable point guard.”

    Oh my god yes. This. A million time this! So to whoever it was I’d debate Knight’s PG abilities with (I think it was I HATE FRANK), there you have it. Now watch him sink without Prince and Calderon flourish in the same offense. Knight is a shooter, not a passer. 

    • Jan 30, 201310:35 pm
      by I HATE FRANK


      I never said he was a traditional PG…I’ve always said Frank has to allow Knight to play his game…which is push the ball…which is creating space for him to create…

      Call it excuses for the Kid but its the truth…he is a scorer… its funny because we near last in the league in scoring….and we have a scoring PG that we want to turn into a spot up shooter….

      so im over the BK project 

      • Jan 30, 201310:48 pm
        by Vince


        I was over the BK project before we even drafted him. Hated the pick, still do. Not sold on his game. 

        One of the reasons I don’t want him on the roster is because he is essentially Stuckey 2.0 except smaller, crappier ball handling, better 3pt shooter, not as explosive and can’t draw fouls. He’s a SG trapped in a PG body. 

        Knight and Stuckey should be able to get us some nice pieces if we put them on the block. 

        • Jan 30, 201311:04 pm
          by I HATE FRANK


          i disagree he is way more talented than stuckey…..

          I believe he should have been a 17ppg and 6 ast guy this season….

          Knight is a very very quick player with a Jumper, and a 3 ball…he can get to the rim at will…and get any shot he wants…but if you are going to limit him and say dont do what comes natural play this way…and he is only in his 2nd year…

          its silly… 

          • Jan 30, 201311:15 pm
            by Vince

            Maybe I’m biased but I see BK averaging 15 and 4 this season and I’m pretty sure thats his ceiling. His ball handling is horrendous! I doubt he’ll ever average more than 5 assists per game, 17 pts? Yeah, I guess I could see that, but not on this team. If he were to be traded tomorrow I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. I was big on Kemba Walker, and I would’ve taken him ahead of Knight any day of the week, and I still would.

            I don’t like Knight. He’ll have to earn his respect from me, if he explodes next year and averages 20 and 5 with only 2 TOs per game consistently then I’d gladly reconsider my situation , but until then? Nope.

          • Jan 30, 201311:32 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            look around the league at what other coaches are doing with scoring PGs…they are allowing them to play fast and play free…allow them to force the issue…

            I can list all of the scoring PG…cant tell me Brandon Knight isnt on their levels…it comes down to a system which allows them to take advantage of their skill set…

            All of a sudden people at like FRANK is a good coach…

            1. Maxiell is still starting …. he is shooting Horrible..has a decent rebounding game every 3 game…back to his shooting ..he takes more jumpers than Monroe
            2. Monroe should have been moved to PF 30 games ago…as a coach Frank should have been forcing Monroe to take that 15-17 footer..because alone opens up the offense
            3. I really Singer…ok he is too slow to defend most SG in the NBA but he plays with great effort, hands and length… but at 6’9 how many post up does he have? vs Stuckey who is 6’4 will post up guards all the time…
            4. Running the Offense through Prince was foolishness…everyone stops while he dribbles the clock down for the shot he wants
            5.Knight IS NOT A PASS FIRST PG… you have seen him play in games and practice for 2 years…at what point do you say..we really need to allow this kid score??? we need to create space for him?
            6. Drummond is just not averaging 22 minutes per game…. clearly the most dominate force we have playing 22 minutes a game..No other team or coach would do that….
            7. Allowing Stuckey to bench himself…and then allowing it to continue for like 35 games… ridiculous
            8. Benching Jonas
            9. Not developing English, Middleton or Salva
            10. Use his power to bench players to get them to do what he wants…..

            Folks….we could have traded for Lebron, and Frank would make Lebron play in the post because thats was 6’9 265 players should do….

            Even on our best nights it seems less about coaching, and more about in 18 wins…someone played REALY REALLY well…. how many 15 and up point leads have we lost, how many times have we questioned his rotation? , how many times have you watched a game and was like “STOP TRAPPING A 20% 3 point shooter, and leaving the 45% 3 point shooter open at the top of the key, on the wing or in the corner? 

            so do I blame Frank for Knight not excelling NO!, but has been hindered Knights Development YES!!! this isnt even tough love…this is Frank stubborn and believes his way is good enough to win in todays NBA…

            and it cant… Calderon might make the offense a little easier for Monroe and Dre..but we still dont have a dynamic wing player…and if Maxiell continues to start…Maxiell shooting will not all of a sudden get better… No difference who passes to the open man if they are not making the shots… it wont matter….

            Ok that my rant… Trade Knight…get it over with 

          • Jan 31, 20131:33 am
            by tarsier

            Not to nitpick, but LeBron is at his best playing out of the post. It is a part of his game that has really improved over the last 2 years.

            Also, someday you gotta tell me how you know Frank is telling Knight not to play naturally but to play a specific, stilted way. And why you believe he is saying that to Knight but not to Bynum. Because you make a post saying that Frank is doing so every single game but have yet to provide one shred of evidence.

            Frank is an awful coach, but players do what they want to do on the floor with almost any coach, including him. Stuckey keeps shooting 3s, Drummond keeps blocking shots, Monroe keeps turning it over, Prince keeps isolating.

            If Frank is really telling everyone to play in a predetermined style (which would seem to fit his MO) as opposed to letting them play their games, it’s amazing how identically his predetermined styles match what they have done their whole careers. 

          • Jan 31, 20131:46 am
            by Vince

            ^ This

  • Jan 30, 201310:26 pm
    by ryan


    This trade is okay at best and we won’t be really sure until Joe Dumars does something with the cap space. That said I’m glad we got rid of Austin Daye I wasn’t a fan when he was in college, HATED that we drafted him and ended up being right that he was an inconsistent wuss. I only wish we’d drafted a valuable player instead.

    The other thing that will make this trade a good one is if it allows us to open up other moves. One move I would love to see is Rodney Stuckey and Jason Maxiell for Paul Millsap and Raja Bell. This move would further clear out the garbage from our roster and bring in a player we can actually build with (unlike the move you all are raving about).

    If we go that way we rotate Millsap, Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond at the 4 and 5 spots. Suddenly we’re versatile and tough on the boards. We play Kyle Singler and Jonas Jerebko at the three which gives us more size overall.

    We start Jose Calderon and Brandon Knight and rotate in Kim English and Kris Middleton. It’s not ideal at all but short term it’s okay and the young guys get a little test run.

    We tell Lawrence Frank that it’s development time not making the playoffs for no fucking reason time so that we end up with a lottery pick. Then we add the best talent available preferably a guard who can start next year.

    In free agency we stay the hell away from Josh Smith and kick the tires on small forward prospects.

  • Jan 30, 201310:33 pm
    by Brigs


    I know someone is gonna bring this up for the 100th time so let me ask before hand, why do you guys think that josh smith can play sf he’s played pf his whole career. have you all not seen what has happened when you put players in positions they arent accustomed to playing and not only that but he also doesnt shoot really good so we would have even less floor spacing then we do now. With all this money we need to get an actual sf who can shoot the ball well and space the floor 

    • Jan 30, 201310:59 pm
      by Edgar


      Absolutely agree with you. He’s a bad shooter who shoots too much. Doesn’t complement the bigs we already have. And he wants a max deal. Last thing we need.

  • Jan 30, 201310:38 pm
    by Lorenzo


    Trade is only a half way point, it’s a dump of $, lets see how they use their new found cap space and expiring contracts before we call it a success or failure.

  • Jan 30, 201310:41 pm
    by Shaun


    Patrick is bizzzack!! Though i think Stuckey is a college shooter with that range. Nba ehh, doesnt mean he cant shoot. They just thought to transition his game to a Bruce Bowen type.. WHY??! Thats your topic Patrick.

  • Jan 30, 201310:45 pm
    by Shaun


    Millsap and raja bell, we be the most boring team in the league x 10.. No please

  • Jan 30, 201310:48 pm
    by frankie d


    everything has to be looked at in relative terms.
    relative to everything dumars has done recently, this is a fantastic trade.
    objectively, it is more like a “B” trade.
    imho, tay for calderon, straight up would be a great trade.  if  you are detroit, you get rid of dead weight, bring in a player who can help your current roster, they are about the same age, and you have the benefit of the expiring contract. 
    but, you also essentially dump your first round pick from 4 years ago.
    so it is another wasted draft pick.
    call me crazy, but i happen to think that it is not a good thing to simply dump first round draft choices.  especially choices around #15.
    if  you want to trade them, trade them, but get something of value back.  something…anything…
    in this trade, detroit basically dumped their first rounder for zilch…zippo…nada.
    which means that in the last 6 drafts, the pistons have dumped 3 first round draft choices – afflalo, daye, dj white – and gotten nothing for them.  nothing.
    that is my problem with the trade.

    • Jan 30, 201310:54 pm
      by Vince


      I see your point, but how can you be disappointed we got rid of Daye? Y’know, Austin Daye? The 6ft11 guy with a smooth jumper who couldn’t hit jack sh*t and has loitered around the bench for the past two years?

      • Jan 30, 201311:31 pm
        by frankie d


        he was an asset.
        joe d drafted him instead of a bunch of other players who have turned out to be quality nba players.
        as i noted, detroit will have dumped 3 of 7 first rounders the last 6 years and essentially gotten nothing, nothing for them.
        that is not the way to run a viable organization.
        i happen to think that daye has a chance to become a decent nba player.
        there was a video up earlier from truehoop with henry abbot and david thorpe where they talked about the upside of various players like andre drummond.  and thorpe made the point, as he has made repeatedly, that most nba players are enormously affected by what team drafts them, the circumstances of their team, the coaching staff, the opportunities provided, etc.  he repeatedly makes the point that most young nba players – apart from the highest level of players – will make it or fail depending on the support and development – or lack thereof – from their teams.
        that has been my point all along about daye and other young pistons.  dumars and detroit have been lousy at developing their young guys.  this trade does nothing to remedy that shortcoming.
        i would give detroit an “A+” if they’d simply traded tay and somehow finessed the cap considerations and/or gotten back a high second rounder.  something that indicated some kind of value for a former first round choice from 4 years back.  i have nothing against trading guys you draft.  what i object to is the idea that you bury your young guys and when they don’t develop, dump them and say, oh well, they were never any good to begin with.  that is exactly what was said repeatedly about other young guys.
        we will see if daye becomes another delfino or amir or afflalo over the next few years.

        • Jan 31, 20131:36 am
          by tarsier


          Actually, if in 6 years, you get 7 first rounders, and 4 turn into high quality assets and 3 are dumped for nothing, you’re doing pretty good. Better than the odds would predict in a crap shoot like the draft.

          • Jan 31, 20132:12 am
            by frankie d

            pretty good if youwant to be the charlotte bobcats.hower if you are trying to compete with the best teams, wasting assets in that fashion is fatal.  especially nowadays.  and the best teams, like okc, certainly arent out there giving away guys like afflalo for zilch.  in fact, they are usuallythe teams who end up stealing young players like eric maynor from other franchises.

          • Jan 31, 20133:08 am
            by Vince

            If I understand your stance Frankie, your belief is such that Daye’s potential and growth was stunted by the situation he was put in and the coaching he was subjected to and that rookies are directly affected by this, and not, say, their poor skills or low ceiling? 

            So you’re telling me that players like Adam Morrison, Patrick O’Bryant, Kwame Brown, Hasheem Thabeet and Joe Alexander are all victims of poor circumstance and that the blame for their dismal careers belongs to the teams who drafted them? That is absolutely laughable.

            You’re paraphrasing what Thorpe and Abbott said, sure some players will be affected by this, see Milicic, Darko (whom I believe might have developed differently had he been given a chance), but a lot of busts… are… well, busts. Daye has a lot of question marks, but I doubt he’ll have an Arron Afflalo-like break out.

          • Jan 31, 20133:33 am
            by Jerrific

            Austin Daye isn’t suddenly going to become mentally tough enough for the NBA just because he changes teams. You could see the kind of toughness it takes for less talented players to make it in Afflalo, Amir, and even Delfino a little bit. Austin Daye has never shown it. Glimpses of a shooting stroke yes, but not toughness. Despite all his supposed skill, he just doesn’t have what it takes. You raise a good point about the draft pick, or at least it would be, if Austin Daye hadn’t depreciated his value to the equivalent of a second round pick already. Also, those guys you mentioned we let slip away were already solid contributors on winning teams. Austin Daye has been unable to crack the rotation consistently on a pretty terrible one. That is something I’m positive anyone of those guys could have done by their fourth year in the league. 

        • Jan 31, 201310:56 am
          by frankie d


          you said:
          So you’re telling me that players like Adam Morrison, Patrick O’Bryant, Kwame Brown, Hasheem Thabeet and Joe Alexander are all victims of poor circumstance and that the blame for their dismal careers belongs to the teams who drafted them? That is absolutely laughable.
          a few remedial reading comprehension classes might be in order.
          can you please point to where i stated such?
          i do think a couple of those guys could have had better nba careers, if they’d been treated differently.  i have opinions about just about every player drafted, as i used to watch a ton of college basketball. about those guys specifically…
          never thought thabeet deserved his high draft position.  always thought he was a mid-late first rounder and would end up being exactly what he’s become with okc.  
          kwame’s hands are the only thing that has stopped him from being better, but if he had not been destroyed by a bad combination of jordan and doug collins – about as lethal a combo for young guys imaginable – then kwame just might be the poster child for what thorpe talks about.  he would have never justified his number one choice, but a better intro into the league would have probably resulted in a better career.  a great defensive center who might get you 7-8 rebounds and 8 points a game.
          ditto for morrison and alexander.  and darko.
          the nba is full of young guys who sit on some team’s bench and then go elsewhere and bloom.  and people wonder how it happens.
          i’ve always believed what thorpe is arguing – and yes i am paraphrasing, but accurately – and it is curious why fans simply refuse to accept what is so obviously and demonstrably true.
          i am always amazed when pistons’ fans defend the horrid treatment of young players in this town.  it is almost a knee-jerk reaction that ignores what has happened right in front of their faces.  almost as though they are resentful and jealous of players like daye.
          just weird.
          and no…afflalo and amir were not contributors on winning teams.  what BB were you watching?
          neither got off the bench much when the team was winning and only scarcely bumped up their playing time and contributions when the team won 39 games the year before they were unceremoniously shipped out for zilch. check the numbers.
          gee…facts are such inconvenient and stubborn things. 

  • Jan 30, 201310:49 pm
    by domnick


    trading stuckey should be easier…

    BOSTON calling………….. and lets get Paul Pierce… but thats a huge gamble..

  • Jan 30, 201310:51 pm
    by Edgar


    Ugh. Super ugly shot chart from Stuckey. I don’t know what I hate more though: the shot chart or when some people start raving about his potential when he puts together a solid couple of weeks in March. I hate “Has Stuckey turned the corner?” topics.

  • Jan 30, 201310:57 pm
    by Anon


    “…but also made contact with Pacers guard Orlando Johnson on a layup attempt by Johnson then promptly crumpled to the floor and died.”

    Second favorite thing I’ve read today. 

  • Jan 30, 201311:18 pm
    by Vince


    Also, welcome back Patrick!

  • Jan 30, 201311:21 pm
    by Anon


    Good to have you back Patrick, even if it is in limited capacity.

  • Jan 30, 201311:26 pm
    by Desolation Row


    Ah, that explains it. Yes, family > responding to ludicrous trade scenarios that wouldn’t even be accepted in NBA 2k13.

    Hopefully this trade a sign of more positive things to come.

  • Jan 30, 201311:53 pm
    by Sam


    You will be missed, Patrick. I apprecitaed your love for, not only the pistons, but Michigan as well.

  • Jan 31, 201312:10 am
    by Jodi Jezz


    Pat, you must have a crush on Singler…He played horrible tonight!..I gained a little respect for him when he had that argument with Hansbourgh, but Singler is still an eye sore to our starting line-up…

    • Jan 31, 201311:12 am
      by PatLovesSingler


      Seriously!  Dude 5pts a couple of taps and deflections is not a good game.  That is what he has consistantly done Patrick, no team in the league whould ever start him besides this team!! Wuz Up?!!!

      • Jan 31, 201311:55 am
        by G


        I like Singler in the starting lineup more than I like Stuckey. Or better said, I dislike Singler in the starting lineup less than I dislike Stuckey there. Which is to say Singler isn’t an NBA caliber starting SF, but Stuckey is brutal.

        The one good thing you could say about Stuckey is he’s a solid FT shooter, but he’s slipping there AND he doesn’t even get to the line much anymore. Check the numbers – last year he got to the line 5.8 times per game on average and shot 83%. This year he only gets to the line 3.6 times in about the same minutes and is shooting 78%. How does a guy who shot over 80% his entire career suddenly fall into the 70′s at age 26?

        • Jan 31, 201312:47 pm
          by Jodi Jezz


          I’ve always liked your comments, but your losing your mind if you like Singler in our starting line-up in any fashion…Singler is garbage!!.

          • Jan 31, 20132:04 pm
            by G

            Thanks, I’m just saying he’s better there than Stuckey. But no, I agree, there are probably 40 SF options in the league I’d rather have in our starting lineup over Singler, except none are on this team.

  • Jan 31, 201312:46 am
    by piston moribund


    Best move since 2004, agreed.  Nice to know Joe D is not as sentimental as he made out to be, a bit ironic since Prince was just mentioning his trade status a week ago.  Now if we can trade one of the guards, any one will suffice, although preferably MFWB or Stuckey.  Add Max to that equation, hell, anyone associated with the past regime, and this would make it the best season since 2004.  Its like a coup de gras, for the fans.
    Especially if Ben would come back and show Bullwinkle how to play defense.  Ironic.  First to leave the group and the only one left.  Perfect!

  • Jan 31, 201312:48 am
    by Oracle


    Family first, Patrick. Even if the pistons are the most interesting team in sports, never mistake them as being more important than your wife and kids. This is your hobby. They are your life.

  • Jan 31, 201312:52 am
    by thetruth


    Top Free Agents this upcoming off-season:

    Chris Paul (long-shot but hey anything can happen)
    Dwight Howard (another long-shot)
    Andrew Bynum
    OJ Mayo
    Brandon Jennings
    Monta Ellis
    Andre Iguodala
    Shawn Marion
    Nikola Pekovic
    Al Jefferson
    Paul Millsap
    Tyreke Evans
    J.R. Smith
    Kyle Korver
    Kevin Martin
    J.J. Redik
    Manu Ginobili
    Emeka Okafor
    Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)


    • Jan 31, 20131:34 am
      by Vince


      As far as I’m concerned, the only players that Joe D should be pursuing in Free Agency are
      OJ Mayo, Monta Ellis, JJ Redick, Andre Iguodala, Nikola Pekovic and Paul Millsap.

      • Jan 31, 20131:44 am
        by Vince


        And Bledsoe!

        • Jan 31, 20138:12 am
          by Domnick


          i think it would be best to dump stuckey before the deadline… im thinking for tyreke evans trade.. do you think it is possible?

      • Jan 31, 201312:04 pm
        by G


        Kevin Martin! He’s declining in skills but still really good. Mayo or Redick would be ok, but I’d leave Monta Ellis alone. I like Millsap, but I’d stay away from anyone who’s a starter at C or PF. You don’t want to spend a lot of money on a guy you’re probably benching behind Monroe or Drummond. J.J Hickson is also available, I’d rather spend $5 million on Hickson than $10 million on Millsap

    • Jan 31, 20131:49 am
      by neutes


      I’d feel Dumars was doing us a disservice if he didn’t make a run at Paul, even if he has no chance. You don’t just not try to get one of the top 3 players in the NBA if they are available. So that.

      I wouldn’t mind getting Korver for cheap. That guy can shoot. He’d be a great fit if we got either Paul (ha) or re-signed Calderon. He could sit on the corner three and kill it. Iggy would be my second choice. 

      Re-sign Calderon, go after Korver and Iggy and we have a real good team. Title contender? Not quite. But a tier below. 

    • Jan 31, 20139:57 am
      by Crispus


      If we could somehow get rid of Stuckey and get JJ Redick and Okafor/Pekovic that would be great. JJ Redick is really making strides as a passer to go with his shooting and Okafor/Pekovic is a big upgrade over Max as the 3rd big.

      I realize this represents only an incremental improvement – Monroe, Knight and Drummond would have to grow into their roles as core players. We still wouldn’t have “that guy” to take the ball at the end of the game, but Joe could use the rest of the cap space to maybe resign Calderon or get an unhappy star once the FA frenzy dies down.

  • Jan 31, 20131:43 am
    by neutes


    Keeping things in perspective Hayes. I like it.

    Anyways I hope we re-sign Calderon to a cheaper contract. This guy is good.

  • Jan 31, 20132:23 am
    by frankie d


    joe should:  resign calderone,  sign a couple of guys around the midlevel exception price, and hoard his cap space and be a serious player when teams start looking togive away young guys like maresse spaights.  free agency is a trap.  josh smith? not in a million years.  same thing with oj mayo.  both those guys are going to be looking for huge money – smith already says he is a max player – and neither one is worth it. nba free agency is only good for getting fans excited.  its a lousy way to build a club.

  • Jan 31, 20132:35 am
    by frankie d


    btw, calderone will probably end upsigning for somewhere between 6-8 million.  depending on how he finishes here that may be something joe will seriously consider.  the 10 million he is making now is obviously his last huge contract.

  • Jan 31, 20133:38 am
    by Jerrific


    Any chance Boston is desperate enough to take Stuckey for Courtney Lee and Sullinger? Neither one puts us in the playoffs, but Lee is a solid three point shooter and Sullinger has upside. 

    • Jan 31, 20133:46 am
      by Jerrific


      Heck, I’d even be willing to give up BK7 for those two guys and a first round pick. All he does is create turnovers and jack up bad shots. Unless it’s a three he usually misses them. I’m not buying into him being a building block going forward. 

  • Jan 31, 20133:38 am
    by Worm


    Look at C Billups stats he was playing like BKnight for 5 years. It takes time for a pg to develop. I don’t like Bk moving to sg he’s 20 years old it’s way to early to give up on him. Knight was better then Rose and JWall in college. Now just trade Maxiel for a back up C/PF and start Drummond

    • Jan 31, 20133:51 am
      by Jerrific


      Being better in college than those guys (which is arguable) doesn’t mean much considering they were both more effective players in their rookies seasons than Knight is right now. 

  • Jan 31, 20134:16 am
    by Worm


    I think he will improve he is very smart that should help his basketball iq. He needs to improve his bball iq and passing both will improve with time. He does look lost at times Wall and rose are awesome for 35 games a year.

  • Jan 31, 20134:23 am
    by Worm


    I’m down with lee and sully if we could throw maxiel in there. Maxiel is an awesome bench player I think any team would take him because he hustles but starter is risky. We already have Charlie v and Jonas as back up power forwards move Max for a back up center unless 6’6″ maxiel can play C

  • Jan 31, 20134:49 am
    by Worm


    Now are best bench player Andrew Bynum’s midget twin bro takes over Jonas’s role? Sitting next to Lawrence… He’s a maniac I could coach better, Jkidd ran the Nets squad until frank ran them into the ground. Jonas goes from starter to 0 mins whos next?

  • Jan 31, 20138:15 am
    by Bugsygod


    Go pistons!

  • Jan 31, 20138:26 am


    @Tarsier LEBRON IS NOT AT HIS BEST IN THE POST!….he is more limited in the Post…. he is easier to defend, he becomes more predictable, the heat offense is then shut down to one side of the floor….

    “”Frank is an awful coach, but players do what they want to do on the floor with almost any coach, including him. Stuckey keeps shooting 3s, Drummond keeps blocking shots, Monroe keeps turning it over, Prince keeps isolating.
    If Frank is really telling everyone to play in a predetermined style (which would seem to fit his MO) as opposed to letting them play their games, it’s amazing how identically his predetermined styles match what they have done their whole careers. ”"

    Monroe is our only Post player what other choices do we have? Turnover or not..we have no other players that can play in the post….

    Drummond keep blocking shos?

    Iso-tay , the was Frank play calling all the way, under Kuester Tay felt like he didnt get enough touches…

    Stuckey is streaky….and Frank knows that but notice the ball is in
    Stuckey hands….stuckey complaint early in the year was he can play his game without the ball in his hand, be comes off the bench and they iso him just like Frank iso’d tay

    Bynum is 30 years old…has play around the world, he trust Bynum for the same reason he trust Maxiell…he like gritty players…and Bynum plays with the 2nd unit…which is easier than playing with the first unit…

    Only thing we agree about is Knight needs to be traded…. i’ve seen soo many young PG struggle and then have a breakout season…but its because the coach believes in him and adjust the offense to fit their style….

    @ Vince Kemba walkers is the perfect example: they spread the floor, they push the ball, Walker first responsilibity is as a scorer who is willing passer, they do not play inside to outside…they play fast …. Last year under Paul Silias Walker struggled, and Silias often favored DJ Augustin more (when he was healthy) and he critized walker PG skills….

    someone times coaches just dont like the PG they are given, Frank is going to love Calderon…not defensively…but now he’ll probably start Drummond

    So i say all that to say Trade Knight …

  • Jan 31, 20138:30 am


    “”it’s amazing how identically his predetermined styles match what they have done their whole careers. ”"

    Knight barely has a career…Stuckey,Prince, Bynum …they just are who they are…

    Knight pretty much just turned 21, Think about how coach POP was with Parker in his earlier years…Difference is POP is an Innovative Coach..who is going to get the most out of his players based on their skill level, he is not trying to make them into something they are not

  • Jan 31, 20138:39 am
    by Venice


    Igoudala is an expiring contract this year right? I hope we can sign him this offseason .He is such a great all around player where he doesn’t need the ball in his hands always to be effective.

  • Jan 31, 20138:41 am
    by bugsygod


    OUCH! PATRICK.   But man, im sorry i was affecting your home life dude.  Man, you way too serious dude, its just sports. I was not an idiot for saying Drummond will not be a bust.  I am not an idiot for saying that the new ownership will spend money.  I am not an idiot for saying that the team is turning around now that Joe can make trades after the ownership change.  But hey, welcome back on your limited basis. I will just torment Dan now, he seems to have a stick up the butt right now. lol
    To the rest of the PistonsPowered, make sure to look up salary cap situations for teams facing the luxury tax.  Players on those teams will be available and that is where trades will happen of those teams trying to dump salary etc.  Also the mid to smaller market teams that are right up against the tax(like memphis) will be looking to dump contracts as well.  So everything i see says that Dumars will be working trades to use the cap space. 
    Im also a little confused on the amount of cap space we will have.  Pistons.com says between 25 w/o cv amnesty and 33 mil with amnesty.  Dan said 22mil to 30mil.  idk just a little clarification.   

  • Jan 31, 20138:44 am
    by Steve K


    Wow, that was painful seeing Stuckey back in the starting lineup.
    Please have him be the next to go. Please!!!
    That Bleacher Report article had Stuckey for Tyreke Evans as a viable possibility. Would love that. Evans’ stats show a drastic trend downward, but would the same not be true of Stuckey? Plus, Evans is hitting 38% of his 3s.
    In the offseason go after OJ Mayo or JJ Redick – two guys who actually fit the SG mold.

    • Jan 31, 201311:57 am
      by Jerrific


      The sad thing is he would of had a decent game if he hadn’t tricked himself into thinking he was capable of shooting the three. He was pretty efficient from everywhere else. 

  • Jan 31, 20138:47 am
    by icantfind


    I want Tyreke Evans so badly

    • Jan 31, 20138:58 am
      by Venice


      Same type with Stuckey so no.

  • Jan 31, 20139:01 am
    by Bugsygod


    Also agree with you on Daye. My son and I would try an guess what type of reaction he wld have after every play. Missed shot -claps hands.  His man scores -he looks around like “no help?”   Didn’t finish a shot -head down shaking his head. Make a three – points to sky. Good riddance

  • Jan 31, 20139:45 am
    by Piston87


    Thanks Patrick, glad you’re not going anywhere.

  • Jan 31, 201311:21 am


    Just Read Patrick Article…it was heart felt… cool for you to share those feeling…you made it fun to debate with…. I now enjoy going back and forth with Tarsier, Vince , Big Rick ect…. I’ve been on alot of message board and it get childish and people spend more time insulting one another than just having fun sharing their view points… so thank you Patrick..

    Now to Dan…. Trade Patrick while he still has value!!!!

  • Jan 31, 201312:14 pm
    by Ryank


    So you’re saying your wife, son, and brother are more important than we are…  well, I guess I know where I stand now… 

  • Jan 31, 201311:01 pm
    by Pg


    Good read. Nice to see you back. I second that I H Frank, trade Patrick and DNP-CV for LBJ! :)

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