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Pistons’ four-game win streak ends with loss to the, ugh, Bobcats

Charlotte Bobcats 108 Final
Recap | Box Score
101 Detroit Pistons
Tayshaun Prince, SF 42 MIN | 9-15 FG | 2-2 FT | 7 REB | 3 AST | 21 PTS | -4

Tayshaun made Isolayshaun a central part of the Pistons’ offense tonight, and although he shot pretty well, he also had a few turnovers due to sloppy ball-handling. The biggest benefit of isolation plays is they rarely result in turnovers, but Detroit didn’t get that with Prince. Plus, he showed his age defensively at times defensively.

Greg Monroe, C 37 MIN | 7-10 FG | 4-5 FT | 14 REB | 6 AST | 18 PTS | +3

Monroe was engaged on both ends, and he played excellently. I can’t ask any more from him.

Brandon Knight, PG 33 MIN | 5-11 FG | 2-4 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 12 PTS | -6

Knight (one assist, four turnovers) didn’t see the floor well, and his spot-up shooting was off, too. He was sort of stuck between roles that didn’t suit him well. Knight doesn’t protect the ball well enough to run the offense, and at least tonight, he didn’t play off the ball well enough, either.

Charlie Villanueva, PF 19 MIN | 3-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 9 PTS | -5

I believe in the hot hand. In other words, I believe a player is more likely to make a shot after making a shot. However, I believe players negate that by shooting too often after making a shot. Case in point, Villanueva made his first three shots – all 3-pointers on consecutive possessions – and then missed his next five shots and didn’t attempt a 2-pointer all game.

Austin Daye, PF 11 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | -1

Daye didn’t play or do much. Sort of curious.

Andre Drummond, C 28 MIN | 5-6 FG | 0-2 FT | 6 REB | 1 AST | 10 PTS | -13

Drummond is a monster. The Bynum-to-Drummond alley-oop is incredibly effective, and he’s really developing as a rim protector (three blocks). Plus, he and Monroe each assisted each other on really nice interior plays. Imagine how awesome it would be if those two played together more.

Will Bynum, PG 24 MIN | 2-9 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 9 AST | 5 PTS | -13

Though Bynum shot 2-for-9, several of those shots came late in the shot clock once other options failed to materialize. He really worked to move the ball, and with nine assists and one turnover, he was mostly successful in that.


  • Jan 7, 201310:06 am
    by Al


    The Pistons have to bring their A game nightly! Again they blow a lead in what could have been a slight blowout game. Bobcats did not want to go away tho but still, this game should have been won. Knight did turn the ball over down the stretch at a crucial time, this cannot happen. It was just a bad pass in perhaps at a time where he should have just shot the ball instead. Where’s Maxiell’s grade by the way?? I think the Bynum to Drummond offense got old and the Bobcats made adjustments on those two. But still, it was fun to see Drummond dominate while he was in the game..

    • Jan 7, 201311:02 am
      by mixmasta


      I believe DF is not done yet. Singler’s grade is not up yet and so as with LF. :)

      • Jan 7, 201311:59 am
        by gtg


        Yeah, where is Singler’s F? If there was a point that killed the Pistons’ chance to pull away, it was his consecutive offensive charges (was it 3? I lost count)

        • Jan 7, 20131:13 pm
          by mixmasta


          Yeah and all of it came from Referee #17…… Joe Crawford.

  • Jan 7, 201310:30 am
    by lisa


    I didn’t see much of this game, but what I did see was ugly. Like three offensive fouls in row, a lack of defense, fast breaks an easy basket for the Bobcats. 

    • Jan 7, 201311:00 am
      by mixmasta


      Ugh! Joe Crawford called those fouls. For me, that was the turning point where our offense began to sag and players started to let down their D.

      • Jan 7, 201311:59 am
        by pg


        I hate that ref. Always have something against the Pistons. I think those offensive calls got them frustrated.

  • Jan 7, 201310:42 am
    by George


    Would anyone call BK7 a sell high candidate?  I know he is young, but our team has enough prospect-types that I really question whether it is worth being patient with him.  He is beginning to look like a looooong term project if we really want him to be our long term answer at pg.

    Besides that, it is safe to say Drummond should be starting now.  Even without the ball, the fact that teams still have to be be aware of the fact he could get the ball for an easy dunk at anytime allows the other 4 guys on the floor to get better looks.  More than offensively, look at our offensive rebounding numbers.  Before OT, the Bobcats had a 10 ORB advantage on us.  That is unacceptable.  Drummond would have easily changed that ratio.

    • Jan 7, 201310:57 am
      by cr29


      I just don’t see anyone interested. Agreed that he’s a really long-term project, but I think the Pistons overvalue him for a couple reasons- (1) even though he’s no point guard, Joe has a really bizarre view that ‘passing ability’ is overrated in point guards and (2) as they’ve said on this site, he’s a ‘hardworker’, which the Pistons value because they see it in practice every data but I’d guess no other team really sees or cares.

    • Jan 7, 20135:14 pm
      by Stuckey and Whoever


      BK7 for Greivis Vasquez.  Man that dude is the most under rated point guard in the league.  GET HIM Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jan 7, 201310:48 am
    by Scott Free


    “Imagine how awesome it would be if those two played together more.”  Wish I didnt have to.

  • Jan 7, 201311:04 am
    by ryan



    Ben McLemore would answer a lot of our problems and Michael Carter-Williams could also be helpful so I’m glad to take the loss.
    As for Brandon Knight he’ll get there. We’re struggling as he struggles right now but that doesn’t worry me. He’s playing, competing and growing. In time he’ll be a very good point guard or a very good 3rd guard and on some nights he’ll be great. We’re lucky to have a guy like him.

  • Jan 7, 201311:15 am
    by Otis


    The good news: According to my math, it looks like Drummond and Monroe shared the floor for 17 minutes tonight. Which is probably a good 12 more minutes than they’ve played together in a game this season.

    The bad news: It came in a loss to the Bobcats. 

  • Jan 7, 201311:34 am


    I hate!!!! what going on at the PG position Right now…

    The decision to see Prince playing Point-Forward slows down our offense…..it also instantly becomes a ISO offense….

    Prince and Knight have no chemistry what so ever, Prince will pass it to Knight only as his last option, and once Knight gives the ball to Prince he knows he wont see it again…

    Knight went on stretch where he was averaging 17-20ppg for almost 10 games, his turnover were down and his shooting percent was up…then all of a sudden we stop his development to allow Bynum and Prince run the team…

    YES i want to win, but its not good for the future of this team

    • Jan 7, 20132:59 pm
      by tarsier


      I’m assuming you are referring to Nov 25-Dec 14, 12 games in which Knight scored 17 or more 9 times and averaged 19.3 ppg.

      But the question is what do you suppose changed since then?

      Prince and Knight played plenty together during the stretch. Both were playing stylistically similarly to how they are now. Prince’s role has not expanded since then.

      The increase in Bynum’s role was not spurred by moving away from Knight but by Stuckey’s injury. Bynum has not been taking many minutes from Knight. he has taken a few touches away because he is not as proficient at playing off the ball as Stuckey, but what so you propose Frank ought to do about that?

      There have only been 3 games in which Knight has had to compete with both Bynum and Stuckey having a significant role. And two of those (the last two games), he has still averaged 34:42 mpg. That number is higher than his average over the 12 game stretch you referenced when Knight was getting 33:51 mpg. And that number is highly boosted by a single game in which Knight was not particularly spectacular but still logged 47:19.

      So, in summary, yeah it’s disappointing to see the turn in how Knight has played. But I don’t see a reason to blame anyone but Knight for that. And I don’t really even hold him at fault, he just hasn’t played up to the standards of his best stretch of games he’s had thus far in his career. That could be said of just about anyone.

      • Jan 7, 201310:24 pm
        by I HATE FRANK


        All I know is Greg was struggling, stuckey was struggling and Knight was taking shots, and being aggressive …

        Next thing you know there’s an article about how the ball isn’t loving enough… Mind you this is before our bench emerged … This was when … Knight and Monroe took most of the shots… All of sudden Prince turns into a Point Foward… And Bynum sparks the bench…

        Knight plays with a SLOW line up…. With NO real athletes …. And u want to take the ball out of his hands…

  • Jan 7, 201311:36 am


    at this point just completely move Knight SG, because what taking place right now is very weird to watch…

  • Jan 7, 201311:55 am
    by Big Rick


    We need a capable point guard period! Andre Miller, Caleron, Ridnour, anybody except for Shaun Livingston. HELP!!!

  • Jan 7, 201311:56 am
    by George


    I wonder if Washington would ever consider trading John Wall?  I doubt they would want to sell so low now, but they need to consider whether they should offer him a long term deal soon.  Washington has so many needs that maybe they might want to try their chances via draft/FA.

    I know that is a long shot option, but we really need to get a real pg.  Some have mentions Sessions or Calderon, but do you think we could make a play for a guy like Lawry?

    • Jan 7, 20134:21 pm
      by tarsier


      Wall would be great. But who knows what the price tag would look like at this point.

  • Jan 7, 201311:59 am
    by Big Rick


    Kyle Lowry would be a definate upgrade and a dream cone true; given that he stTy’s relatively healthy. He just signed with Toronto this offseason so that’s wishful thinking for now anyway. 

  • Jan 7, 201312:01 pm
    by bugsygod


    Coach frank, was too slow with adjustments(as usual).  When you see the other team making a run, dont wait until the lead is totally lost before you call T.O. 
    There were possesions at the end where he was taking out Monroe for drummond for defense and then going small with Tay at the 4.  On these possesions we lost offensive rebounding and the bobcats were able to capitlize. 
    If Monroe and Drummond are not able to play together, because we want to downsize, then what is the point of drafting Drummond?  I guess we need to trade one or the other, because of nba small ball fever.  I thought this was going to be a great advantage we would have with the two bigs and other teams would have trouble matching up.  I guess the coach sees this differently and as a negative because the bigs Monroe/Drummond will have to guard a small ball 4. 
    So i guess we can scratch having a dominate front line, this must also be the reason that Max plays so much and starts because he can guard the small ball 4′s.  So re-sign max and trade Monroe I guess is the best option for Coach frank.  #Coaching 

    • Jan 7, 20134:00 pm
      by Chris H


      I’m pretty sure I read somewhere, maybe even here is that the point of small ball is gambling that the other team will try to match up to you.  Maybe that is Frank’s problem, have them try to keep Drummond and Monroe off of the glass.  Dump the ball into the low block,  make them foul until they run out of players, but no one does that anymore.  Even against the Knicks with Melo playing the 4, no one posts against melo, even though he is known to be a subpar defender. 

  • Jan 7, 201312:11 pm
    by pistons moribund


    BK does not appear to run the offense because he is not told to run the offense.  Almost every play down the floor he has to give it up to Moose or to Stuckey or to Bynum.  Its like asking Billups to give it up to Sheed everytime down the floor and expect him to produce.  After BK dumps off the ball he will cut or float the the 3 point line and wait for someone to give him the ball.  He is already playing as a SG.  He knows this and is forcing matters which only makes it worse.  Its all in his head and he needs to get over it and be more aggressive.  With that said, the most effective play in the NBA, the pick and roll is not run very often with him on the floor because of Moose and not very effective because his main screener, Max, doesn’t roll to the basket well and cant shoot from 15.  All that adds up to his ineffectiveness. When will plays, he has so many more options including a really good target in Dre so that he has someone to lob the ball to and open up the lane for him.  When Will in the game with BK, BK plays SG and he never gets the ball and he just floats around looking bored.  I will say that he has enormous trouble staying in front of quicker guards and got schooled last night.
    Its true that on paper Moose had a good game and assisted well but that seems to happen once in a blue moon and did not result in a W.  He still has some huge flaws which needs to be addressed if he is to be considered a start or a franchise player.  His shooting percentage from outside is abysmal which tends to allows defenders to play off him and guard the paint so when he gets the ball at his usual place, his defender has only to worry about him driving to the basket.  His lack of athleticism means that without that 15-20footer, he is even easier to guard and gets striped way too often.  Every player has a good game once in a while but that doesn’t mean they are a star, just means he is a top player on a shitty B team, no wait, D team.
    From a realist standpoint, we really should trade everyone we can while we still can for some assets.  AD’s performance is a prime example of this.  Inexplicably, he didnt do anything, didnt shoot when he was open and got flustered when someone was running at him on the 3 point line.  Put up some really ugly shots and forces things.  I imagine people are still calling for some of those guys and i am still dreaming that Joe D will pull the trigger.  I emphasis DREAMING.
    Next stop, LOTTERY, this is the last stop.  Off the wagon please.

    • Jan 7, 201312:31 pm
      by James


      Ah, it actually seems like somebody has watched the Pistons play. Nice analysis, moribund. I’ve been saying all of the same things.

  • Jan 7, 201312:47 pm
    by MIKEYDE248


    Not that I am saying I want to see these guys playing big minutes (or any), but I do believe in riding the hot hand.  In this case it has been CV, Daye and Bynam.  The 3 had a combined 54 minutes played while Prince alone had 42.

    It was nice to see Drummond get some bigger minutes and play with Monroe also.

    Never seen a team get as many offensive fouls as us either.  Normally Stuckey gets his fair share, but today it was everyone else.  Way too many out of control drives to the basket.

  • Jan 7, 201312:55 pm
    by Ryank


    How can we win more than 1 out of 10 games when Bynum is chucking up all the shots down the stretch.  That rarely works.  the trade off is bringing Knight into the game and have him turn it over 75% of the time down stretch when defenses tighten up.  Bynum will hopefully be gone at season end.  Joe needs to shop Knight around to see what he can get in a trade.

  • Jan 7, 201312:57 pm
    by Crispus


    Why no minutes for Daye? Are we trading him?

    I just heard that Scott Machado got waived. He’s not a proven pg, but his d-league assist numbers are wonderful and he’d already be better at running the offense than Brandon Knight. 

    • Jan 7, 20131:33 pm
      by Clint in Flint


      I hope we are trading him and we throw in Frank for a kicker!

  • Jan 7, 20131:53 pm
    by Lake Side Live


    I will be the bad guy here and call out Drummond for about a 3-5 minute stretch in 2nd I believe where he was gotten the better of Bismack Biyombo,  in that stretch Bioyombo had 6 points and 4 rebounds at least 1 of them offensive.

    Not faulting Drummond first time playing Biyombo and all just hope he makes a learning experience like dealing with Zaza Pachulia, who got cagey and needled Drummond into a tech when they played each other.  It will be another good measuring stick to see how Andre responds the next time he plays Biyombo.  

  • Jan 7, 20132:01 pm
    by Eh?


    I love this website to death and i frequently check back for updates but sometimes the grammar in the posts is just elementary.  Who taught this guy how to use commas? lol

  • Jan 7, 20132:02 pm
    by Big Rick


    I agree with the dissaproval of some if not most of Bynum’s shot selection down the stretch, but I’d prefer him taking questionable to ill-advised shots over that giving the ball away like Knight has for most if not all of this season. Anyday.  

    I’m not trhilled with Bynum running the point guard postion full time, but as of right now Knight is the 3rd best PG on our team. Bynum is and always will be a nice, serviceable change of pace backup. Stuckey, he’s efficient when he’s not in love with the 3-ball and he’s driving, dishing and rebounding.

    Maybe blame the system, maybe blame the rotation, maybe blame the coach, but to an extent a layer has to take some degree of the blame for his performance on the court. I know there has to be someone on this site that watched the Pistons last year (season)….Am I the only one that feels that Knght displayed more potential and played more consistently last year as rookie? I know I’m no tripping. LOL. Like I stated before, I’m a fan of his. I don’t know what the issue is with his subpar play this year. Maybe there are few contributing issues. I’m not saying get rid of him but play him to his strengths and bring in a more skilled facilitator and ball distributor.

  • Jan 7, 20132:03 pm
    by Big Rick


    “but to an extent a PLAYER has to take some degree of the blame for his performance on the court”

  • Jan 7, 20132:04 pm
    by Big Rick


    Damn it’s quite easy to make typos on here! Geeez!

    My bad fellas.

  • Jan 7, 20132:18 pm
    by apa8ren9


    This was just an ugly loss.  Its a reminder that despite the “magic” of the last few games the Pistons just aren’t a good team.  We have no consistent play to close out games, inconsistent/streaky PG play and poor adjustments made by the coach.  It was a good week while it lasted.  Ill remember it fondly.

    • Jan 7, 20132:37 pm
      by MIKEYDE248


      The Pistons get you all excited when the play the really bad teams and beat up on them, but then when they lose to one of them, it reminds you where they really are.

      • Jan 7, 20133:03 pm
        by tarsier


        The Pistons were getting us excited because they weren’t beating up on really bad teams. They were beating the Heat, Bucks, and Hawks.

  • Jan 7, 20132:33 pm
    by Seto


    Knight is a good player and will have career in the NBA, but I don´t believe he will be a starting PG. He just makes so many silly mistakes in transition, it looks like he just don t have the necessary vision. But he can be like Barbosa or Terry, he is a shooter. But Raptors wants young PG and SF, why not offer Knight and Tay for Lowry and someone else, maybe pick…I think both teams will be better after this. And I would love to see Lowry in Pistons uniform

  • Jan 7, 20133:24 pm
    by frankie d


    knight is going through a tough time, largely because, imho, his role is constantly changing.
    last year, stuckey and knight shared PG duties.
    this year started off with knight playing the role of ball-dominant PG with stuckey spotting up and rarely handling the ball in the half-court.
    more recently, knight has been simply bringing the ball upcourt and then passing it to either monroe or tay and one of those players actually facilitates the half-court offense.
    imho, the way that stuckey and knight played last year has been the most effective way to let knight play.
    he was not capable of playing the ball-dominant PG.  reducing him to bringing the ball upcourt and then passing it off does not let him develop as a PG.
    why no pick and roll with knight?
    it has more to do with his inability to run it correctly.  he is horrible at making the kind of quick decisions a guard hast to make in that play.  he just does not have the head to run it.  the best pick and roll guy on the team is bynum.
    btw, i think the second unit is hurt by stuckey’s return.  they have a nice flow, rhythm, when it is just bynum handling the ball with a bunch of shooters and drummond.  stuckey needs the ball in his hands to be effective and that greatly disrupts what the second unit was doing while stuckey was out.
    it will be interesting to see how this is resolved, as stuckey needs to play somewhere, but i kind of hope it is not with the second unit.
    on the other hand, he cannot go back to the first unit…or can he?
    what a mess. 
    dumars is clearly to blame for everything that is going on.
    last night’s game brought lots of those issues back to a head. 

    • Jan 7, 20135:10 pm
      by Stuckey and Whoever


      I don’t know if you watched the same game last night.  Because Stuckey played off the ball a lot and was very effective.  One assist case in point he did not have the ball in his hand a lot trying to create for others.  Bynum was mostly doing that.  But I do agree last year was the most effective way to play Knight and Stuckey, and thats why I don’t understand way they reversed roles. 

  • Jan 7, 20134:30 pm
    by George


    BK7 really should be the first guard off the bench.  He will, at best, be a Terry/Crawford/Louis Williams type guard who is just in to score.  I know this will annoy some of the players in the rotation, but it isn’t like what we were doing was working, just look at our record.  BK7 put up some of his best stats in losses so what can anyone gather from them?

    While Stuckey isn’t a natural pg, he plays the position a lot better than BK7.  I respect BK7′s work ethic and attitude, but at the end of the day, he just doesn’t seem to have the natural instincts of a pg.  He is lost even executing pick and rolls.  I have said it before on this forum, but I think years of being “the man” in the AAU circuit and in high school really hurt his game.  He has a lot of bad habits that will take a lot of time to fix…time we just don’t have, especially when it is at the expense of the rest of our youth.

  • Jan 7, 20135:22 pm
    by Jodi Jezz


    I don’t mean to bash Singler every post but I’m sorry…Where is the bum’s grade at?..

  • Jan 7, 20135:29 pm
    by Mone


    Why the hell did Frank go to Prince for the last play in the 4th???? He is not a buzzer beater guy.. Why the hell not put Bynum, Daye, Charlie V, and Drummond in???? That pissed me the hell off.. The #$%^%$$ Bobcats.. 

  • Jan 7, 20135:31 pm
    by Venice


    I letting the reason why Frank lets the players play even though they badly need a t.o is that he’s letting them mature and learn o solve their own little problems. I think it’s better for the team to learn solving them. I don’t think we need to burn every t.o. everytime we see a problem.

  • Jan 9, 201312:17 am
    by Lorenzo


    Its been said before and i’ll say it again….if a deal for Rudy Gay can be swung…a real (missing) balance would be restored to the floor and roster. This game was just another statement of that lingering imbalance. The fella’ is being shopped, hope the front office listens….though the chances of hammering out a reasonable deal is another issue all together.

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