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Greg Monroe could make 130 straight shots and still trail Andre Drummond in field-goal percentage

Me at the Detroit Free Press:

Drummond has been the Pistons’ best player this season.

Monroe is still commonly recognized as the Pistons’ best player, but those with that view don’t give enough credence to defense and efficiency – two areas in which Drummond dominates Monroe.

Drummond, despite any awareness shortcomings, already is a better defender than Monroe. The Pistons allow fewer points per possession when Drummond plays than when Monroe plays, and that’s pretty impressive when considering Drummond plays a large percentage of his minutes with players such as Will Bynum, Austin Daye and Charlie Villanueva, who hold reputations as poor defenders. Drummond has blocked shots and defensively rebounded better than any Piston, and he’s among the team leaders in getting steals.

The difference in efficiency between Monroe and Drummond is even more striking.

Monroe could make his next 130 shots and still trail Drummond in field-goal percentage. Drummond, if he and Monroe continue to play the same number of minutes per game, could turn the ball over more than Monroe in every game between now and March 26 and still average fewer turnovers per minute than Monroe.

33 Comments

  • Jan 11, 201312:34 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    Everyone already knows Dummond is a beast! Now we need to start looking for players to compliment him. I just read an article about Eric Bledso wrote by Broussard. I think the Pistons should go after him.

  • Jan 11, 201312:35 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Why am I still pissed that we lost to the bobcat?

    I really cant get over that Loss…

    All I think is by now Drummond should not be playing less than 30 minutes per-game…
    All I think is Greg should have been made the transition to PF… and be sort like Al Horford…

    I might be the only person not surprised about Drummond…. when people here questioned his production in college, I explained it…

    And I still believe he has offensive moves developed that we havent even seen yet….. I predicted 10ppg 8-10rebsppg 2blks 

    and he isnt too far from those numbers?

     

  • Jan 11, 201312:38 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    WOW!!! Nice to see you guys come to that realization. I know for awhile Patrick was saying Monroe was our best player. He was, and you could still argue that he is but honestly if you could choose one of the potential twin towers to build around…… Monroe or Dummond?
    I would go with Drummond. My reasoning is because I value defense over offense and while either one of them are finished products I see way more upside with Drummond and he actually plays more often than not like he is a 7 footer.

    • Jan 11, 20131:05 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Oh, for sure. I don’t think there are hardly any Pistons fans left these days who would rather have Monroe as the franchise cornerstone than Drummond. But we should take more time to celebrate that Detroit has two incredibly skilled, full-sized big men whose play styles so perfectly compliment each other. An all-star caliber player at any of the remaining three positions should have Detroit easily into the playoffs. And solid role players to fill out the team are already being developed.

      • Jan 11, 20133:55 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        I’m not sure their skillsets complement each other that much. Drummond is a great rebounder that only scores right around the basket. Monroe is a good rebounder that only scores right around the basket. Monroe is a quality passer but poor defender. Drummond is a quality defender but poor shot creator. In some ways they complement each other, but they also tend to run into each other on offense. Neither is effective away from the basket as a shooter, so teams can easily pack the paint (they already do against the starters). Monroe can pass from the high post, but it’s kind of fools gold because he can’t actually create his own offense from there.
         
        I think Drummond’s ideal counterpart is a stretch 4 that spots up away from PnR’s. Monroe’s ideal counterpart is a stretch 4 that blocks shots. Drummond should play next to a guy like Ryan Anderson, while Monroe should play next to a guy like Serge Ibaka.

  • Jan 11, 201312:41 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    Always been a fan of Bledsoe. I say we pay the man. We gotta have him on the radar in the upcoming free agency period. I can see Utah in the market for a PG also.

    • Jan 11, 20131:00 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Just wondering, how much are you thinking it’ll cost to get Bledsoe? He’s not exactly under the radar. I’m guessing it takes $7-8M/yr to sign the man. And I am not convinced that he is that good.

      • Jan 11, 20133:42 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        Bledsoe is getting overhyped due to LA’s good record. He’s still below average as a scorer (was moreso the last two years) and is a bad passer. He’s athletic, but he’s tiny. He might work as someone’s starting PG, but he’s really a scoring guard. I have a feeling when he does get to run his own team, we will be quite underwhelmed by the results. It’s not hard to look better on a good team, especially when you have the best PG in the league soaking up all the tough minutes/matchups.

  • Jan 11, 201312:45 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Are we in the hunt for Rudy Gay?

    And would we give Greg Monroe up for Rudy Gay?

    I say YES…in Today NBA … You need a dominate BIG … Dominate BIG doesnt just mean scoring Dominating Rebs, blocks, interior presence … We have Drummond

    You need players like Knight, Daye, Charlie V , and Even those he is struggling Singler that can shoot and stretch the floor..

    Only thing we are missing is an explosive Wing player, we havent had one since Grant Hill…

    And Gay is better than any player we could land this Summer…. I like Monroe, but look around the league it makes since…unless you can pull off a trade where you dont need to move monroe
     

    • Jan 11, 201312:59 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      A) Gay is overpaid. Monroe underpaid.

      B) They are both having uncharacteristically inefficient seasons, but I don’t see any reason to believe Gay is a better player than Monroe.

      C) Without Monroe, the Pistons would suddenly be real thin at the big man spots. They don’t have a dynamic wing at this point, but they have plenty of players who can ably play the three. Not so much with the four (especially if they don’t resign Max and eventually ditch CV).

      D) A more minor issue is that Monroe is hardly a fit with the Grizz. but that could be remedied by three-teaming it. Lots of teams would love to facilitate to cash in on part of the difference in value between Gay and Monroe.

      E) Such a trade would kill Detroit’s cap space. Maybe Gay is better than whoever they might sign in the offseason (let’s nominally say Millsap right now). But he is not anywhere close to worth Monroe+Millsap (or whoever) which is essentially what the Pistons are losing. Better to sign the Millsap or similar player and then work some three team deal to one of the many clubs who need another big and have assets to pass on to Memphis for Gay.

      • Jan 11, 20135:06 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        not disagreeing with you, but we need an explosive game changing player…NOT saying you wrong…

        But there are no Rudy Gay quality players in Free-Agency this summer, and non that would likely want to come to Detroit…

        Not knocking Greg, but we will end up overpaying him anyway…and everyone knows it…

        Gay is more of a Answer than Greg is….

         

    • Jan 11, 20131:08 pm
      by Big Rick

      Reply

      @ I HATE FANK just for argument sake take a look at Memphis, who have been reportedly been shopping Rudy Gay for awhile. They put a lot of stock in their front line of Marc Gasol and ZBo, as their core (along with Conley) So the potential of Greg and Andre forming a nice front line could work depending on how thier individual games evolve. If Greg can acquire a reliable 16ft to 17ft jumper similar to Z-Bo and David West, and once Drummnd learns the league and refines his skills the sky is the limit. But why haven’t we seen this duo on the court for long stretches?
      I like Rudy Gay too, but he’s owed a big chunk of $$$ for the next couple of seasons, and I don’t see our front office doing something that risky especially after them donating the same amount of money to BG & CV the last time we were major players in free agency.  Joe D already put it out that they’re not trying to take on any long term money during the season. So if Gay gets traded by the deadline that pretty much takes us out of the running. What about Tyreke Evans?

      • Jan 11, 20132:05 pm
        by Janks

        Reply

        A big chunk?

        You mean like Magette/Max for Gay?  It aint that crazy to replace those two with RG.  I would do it all day long, every day. 

        You realize that those two together are almost a max player money(depending on years of service)!  SO Worthless when you think of it.  I would take just about any max player in the league over them two stiffs.  Wouldn’t have to ask me twice.

        Make the trade, and you still have Hamilton and a few others off the books as well.  No need to get under the cap if you find talented players to replace the expirings.  You are not getting LB or anything like him so lets use it on two very good players, if you do S&T or just trades is can be done.

  • Jan 11, 201312:49 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    “Drummond has been the Pistons’ best player this season”

    I can agree with this. But I still believe that, at least for now, Monroe is the Pistons’ best player. He has been slumping this season but I don’t think his play is indicative of his actual ability. There is no way to explain why he would suddenly be a worse player than he was last year (when his counting stats were comparable but his efficiency much better). Also, he dominates games occasionally in ways that I just don’t believe Drummond can do yet.

  • Jan 11, 20131:31 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    If the Pistons are trying to swing a big, exciting trade, targets at this point should be primarily injured players (Granger, Howard, Lowry, Reke, Ilyasova, Bynum, Wall, Thornton, Rubio). These guys are currently holding back their teams (some are playing now, I know, but those have been on and off injury status all season). So they could be had for a discount most likely. And they would help the Pistons get a better pick this year before helping them into the playoffs next year. I’d include Rose but he is certainly untouchable. Some of these guys might be, but I don’t know for sure about any of them.

  • Jan 11, 20131:43 pm
    by Paul

    Reply

    While the math of these comparisons is undeniable, I think the different roles of Drummond and Monroe do a lot to explain and ameliorate Monroe getting the worst of these statistics.  The Pistons often run the offense through Greg, and he actually posts up.  He passes and shoots more.  The kind of FG% Drummond is posting is almost always a big who only operates at point blank range.  Monroe is asked to be more of a volume scorer.  They just about won’t throw the ball to Andre unless it’s a lob dunk.
     
    It’s fair to ask what is meant by “best” player.  Monroe is the big who is the most fundamentally sound and has the most complete game.  Drummond is obviously the bigger, stronger, more athletically gifted player.  Monroe suffers by direct comparison to Drummond’s sometimes startling athleticism, but his steady, heady contributions should be respected.  Monroe is still posting double-doubles at a pretty good rate.
     
    Drummond is the future at center.  His defensive/rebounding abilities make that a no-contest in the long run.  I’m glad the Pistons are being as careful with Drummond as they are.  His minutes are increasing and I expect they will continue to do so.  Andre clearly had a conditioning issue early, and fatigue invites injury.  His stamina seems better of late.  It should be party time for Pistons fans.  We’re arguing over how quickly Andre should be playing 30 minutes per game in his rookie year, when prior to the draft many “experts” were allowing he had the potential to make a contribution in 2 or 3 years.  How sweet it is, but this luck involves many adjustments throughout the team.
     
    Bledsoe is a interesting prospect, but whether there’s any real hope of acquiring him I wouldn’t know.  Circumstances are coming to the point where there is a real opportunity to reshape the Pistons, and I suppose we all hope it goes better than the CV/BG signings.

  • Jan 11, 20131:55 pm
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    I think Dan pointed out that the more touches Bullwinkle has, or any other player has, the more we find out about his strength and weaknesses.  Because Bullwinkle has had a lot more touches and has assumed more responsibilities, his weaknesses has become more prevalent.  His passing is good but not C Webb great.  His interior defense is not good.  Rebounding is OK, but not athletic enough to block shots or help side defense.  No outside shot in games apparently, only in practice.  So I don’t think its that he’s gotten worse, I think its because he has not gotten better and still has a bit of work to do. I think that on offense, once he gets that outside shot to drop consistently, his offense will improve greatly, his defense will always be so so at best.
    With that said, due to natural ability, Dre can learn all those things and be able to do them because he has the genetics and time and apparent mindset to work on them.  The things that you cant teach are court awareness and athletic ability and each big has one, although Dre might have both.  But as with Bullwinkle, when the sample size increases, I think we will get a better idea of Dre’s weaknesses as well, and I am guessing that he doesn’t have much of a post game aside from dunking, a Dwightesque type of player and we know what limitations that will have.
    If only we had Love with one hand.  That would be the perfect inside outside combo that would really dominate. That is why the second unit is so good together. One more piece of the puzzle to go.

    • Jan 11, 20132:31 pm
      by Crispus

      Reply

      Watching Lamarcus Aldridge last night I realized that’s the player Monroe has to become. He’s got to refine his moves so he’s not just trying to beat the other big off the dribble every time. That mid range jump shot is so important for making the defender play for both the drive and the shot.

      • Jan 11, 20136:52 pm
        by Stuckey and Whoever

        Reply

        Dido
        I think he is right there as the best power foward

  • Jan 11, 20132:03 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    The only reason Moose is not efficient anymore and turns it over all the time is because he isbeing asked to do too much outside of his ability. If he wasn’t being asked to handle the ball and essentially run the offense, he would be able to just hustle and get the ball in his fave spots. What’s needed is a true pg with poise, change of pace, shooting ability and passing ability minus turnovers – kinda like Damian lillard, or Trey Burke

  • Jan 11, 20132:37 pm
    by tim

    Reply

    Dan, your point about turnovers is clearly incomplete.  Without any numbers in it, its not true.  Say drummond averaged 10 turnovers a game and monroe 1 for the time period specified.  Clearly, drummond would have a much higher per game rate for the season at that point.  You have to quantify the statement, like you did with fg.

  • Jan 11, 20132:44 pm
    by lisa

    Reply

     Moose isn’t going anywhere. Joe like him too much.

  • Jan 11, 20134:05 pm
    by kamal

    Reply

    There is no way Drummond is better than Monroe.  Not a chance.

    Drummond plays against back-ups.  Of course opponents score less when he’s in the court versus when Monroe is on the court.  Drummond catches lobs.  Monroe is RARELY assisted.  The majority of Monroe’s points come from one-on-one moves.  We don’t have a good point guard and Monroe has to handle the ball and run the offense more than he needs to.

    Sure, Drummond is a better defender than Monroe.  Hell, he is a much better defender.  But it’s not like he’s playing against the same people Monroe is for extended minutes. 

    • Jan 11, 20137:01 pm
      by Stuckey and Whoever

      Reply

      Its like the stat above 130 straight shots to match Dre %.  Well if Dre took as many shots as Monroe..different story.  Dre will still shoot better than Monroe when he gets his minutes, but right now you cant say Dre is better than a guy who is playing double the minutes.  Do I like Dre’s game better than Monroe, yeah right now I do.  Do I think Monroe has over achieved a bit so far in his career, yeah I do.  But until Dre plays at least a season with 30+ min a game too tough of a call to make. 
       

  • Jan 11, 20134:26 pm
    by Keith

    Reply

    Given Kevin Love is injured again and has already made several disparaging remarks towards Minny’s brass, do you think they might entertain a trade of Love for Monroe and Stuckey? Monroe is healthy and slides in next to Pekovic, and as well benefits from playing with Rubio. Stuckey, despite his struggles, is a better SG than what Minny has. Minny also saves money which can help when extending Pekovic. Obviously Detroit essentially loses Monroe for nothing initially, but then get’s Love when he returns from injury.
     
    I’m probably crazy to think that’s possible.

    • Jan 11, 20136:54 pm
      by Stuckey and Whoever

      Reply

      Love has said he is trying to go some place where he can win.  Unless we make huge improvements no dice, and Love is like Larry Bird 2.0 without helping his team win.

  • Jan 11, 20136:37 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    Starting from this point forward who would you feel more confident in building your team around…..Monroe or Drummond????

    • Jan 11, 20137:49 pm
      by Revken

      Reply

      We don’t have to make that choice, just like the Spurs didn’t have to decide whether to build around Robinson or Duncan.  We have two big men with potential to be very good if not great players.  It would be foolish to trade Monroe for overpaid and/or injury prone players.

    • Jan 11, 201310:20 pm
      by Dan Rafferty

      Reply

      Monroe sure looks dominant tonight! 

  • Jan 11, 20138:39 pm
    by David

    Reply

    Ridiculous. How about if Monroe makes his next 130 shots and drummond has to take 130 shots in the next 10 games while going up against opposing teams starting centers, playing 30+ minutes a night, and playing next to mostly jason maxiel and tay. How would Drummond’s fg percentage compare to Monroe’s?

     I’m not saying Monroe is a better player. Nor that Drummond is.

    I will say that Monroe is a DAMN good player. And over 2.5 years now.

    The issue and question is not who is Detroit’s best player. It’s who are detroit’s 3 – 6 or 7th best player? Who’s worth investing in? And who’s not? Because Monroe and Drummond TOGETHER are a bright, awesome frontcourt future.

     

  • Jan 12, 20135:35 am
    by kaneda

    Reply

    This whole discussion about which big we should build around is a little ridiculous. We should build our team around Monroe and Drummond, at least for the near future. Right now they should be the only 2 unmovable players. Come next season when both will be starting we will have a better picture of how they work together, and then it will be easier to entertain the idea of who could potentially be moved. Monroe will need to work on developing his 16-18 ft shot so he can fit in perfectly with Dre.
    I really feel that the only way we trade Monroe right now should be for Kevin Love. Obviously you can’t compare Love to Monroe, but giving up Monroe, at this point, for anyone else is a true risk for this team going forward. 
    Since Memphis is looking to dump salary, if there is a way we can trade for Rudy Gay by giving up Prince, Maggette and maybe Daye or Middleton/draft pick we should pull the trigger.

  • Jan 12, 20137:12 am
    by max

    Reply

    I think the Pistons should somehow get a true point guard who can facilitate the offense and an athletic wing player, may it be a sg or sf who is an all-around player. Drummond’s offense right now mainly comes from lobs/accurate passes or misses, as he doesn’t have a go-to post move yet, and rarely demands/gets the ball in the post. Without a true pg his production will suffer. I’m not knocking on BK7…. but until he evolves into a true pg who can run the team better and commit less turnovers, the team will not progress much, even if by some miracle they manage to qualify for the playoffs. And I believe, as of now, monroe is still the best big man on this team overall than drummond, but of course he’ll eventually get to the point in his career that he’ll be better than monroe. When these two eventually start together later this season or next, the other 29 teams better watch out…..

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