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	<title>Comments on: Every other NBA team&#8217;s top two players share the court between two and eight times as much as Pistons&#8217; Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/</link>
	<description>Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage</description>
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		<title>By: Bango Unchained: Bucks vs. Pistons preview : Bucksketball &#8211; A Better Milwaukee Bucks Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112953</link>
		<dc:creator>Bango Unchained: Bucks vs. Pistons preview : Bucksketball &#8211; A Better Milwaukee Bucks Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112953</guid>
		<description>[...] of PistonPowered, the Pistons top two players (in terms of WinShares) are only together on the court 8% of the time (Monroe and Drummond). The Bucks rank 23rd in this stat, with Jennings and Sanders being on the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of PistonPowered, the Pistons top two players (in terms of WinShares) are only together on the court 8% of the time (Monroe and Drummond). The Bucks rank 23rd in this stat, with Jennings and Sanders being on the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tarsier</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112830</link>
		<dc:creator>tarsier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112830</guid>
		<description>Drummond and Monroe can both play enough that you wouldn&#039;t have to go to a Maxiell-CV combo. They don&#039;t need to play all their minutes together, it would just make sense for them to get a whole lot more together than they currently do. If for no other reason than that Maxiell and CV (and heck, wins this season) don&#039;t really matter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drummond and Monroe can both play enough that you wouldn&#8217;t have to go to a Maxiell-CV combo. They don&#8217;t need to play all their minutes together, it would just make sense for them to get a whole lot more together than they currently do. If for no other reason than that Maxiell and CV (and heck, wins this season) don&#8217;t really matter</p>
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		<title>By: tarsier</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112829</link>
		<dc:creator>tarsier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112829</guid>
		<description>Agreed. But in this case, we are not talking about who are actually the teams&#039; two best players because that would be subjective and debatable. So, as the original post clearly states, we are talking about each team&#039;s top two players by the objective (but not necessarily as meaningful as ideal) statistic &quot;win shares&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. But in this case, we are not talking about who are actually the teams&#8217; two best players because that would be subjective and debatable. So, as the original post clearly states, we are talking about each team&#8217;s top two players by the objective (but not necessarily as meaningful as ideal) statistic &#8220;win shares&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: tarsier</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112828</link>
		<dc:creator>tarsier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112828</guid>
		<description>&quot;Causation&quot; is not a subjective term like &quot;star&quot;. We can all say, this is what I mean when I cal a player a &quot;star&quot; because it is not defined. You don&#039;t seem to grasp what causation means, though.

Reducing turnovers will cause a team to win more. If every team in the league does it, it&#039;ll cancel out because wins are a zero sum game, but it is still a relationship of causation. Ditto for shooting a higher percentage.

If you say A is correlated with B but does not cause B, then, by increasing A, you would have absolutely no reason to expect B to increase. That is what correlation without causation means. It isn&#039;t debatable. It isn&#039;t an opinion. That is the meaning. So, whether you use the term or not, what you are claiming is in fact a relationship of causation and not merely correlation. Otherwise, there would be no reason to recommend any course of action.

Now I&#039;m not saying that playing your best players together does not cause more wins. I am saying that what is provided in this post is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion. What seems much more likely is that putting better players on the floor causes more winning. So teams are more likely t win if they have their best (any number but in this case two) 2 players on the floor more often. So, having them play more often both causes more winning and causes them to be, on average, on the floor together more often. So those two results end up being correlated as they are both being caused by a common factor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Causation&#8221; is not a subjective term like &#8220;star&#8221;. We can all say, this is what I mean when I cal a player a &#8220;star&#8221; because it is not defined. You don&#8217;t seem to grasp what causation means, though.</p>
<p>Reducing turnovers will cause a team to win more. If every team in the league does it, it&#8217;ll cancel out because wins are a zero sum game, but it is still a relationship of causation. Ditto for shooting a higher percentage.</p>
<p>If you say A is correlated with B but does not cause B, then, by increasing A, you would have absolutely no reason to expect B to increase. That is what correlation without causation means. It isn&#8217;t debatable. It isn&#8217;t an opinion. That is the meaning. So, whether you use the term or not, what you are claiming is in fact a relationship of causation and not merely correlation. Otherwise, there would be no reason to recommend any course of action.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not saying that playing your best players together does not cause more wins. I am saying that what is provided in this post is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion. What seems much more likely is that putting better players on the floor causes more winning. So teams are more likely t win if they have their best (any number but in this case two) 2 players on the floor more often. So, having them play more often both causes more winning and causes them to be, on average, on the floor together more often. So those two results end up being correlated as they are both being caused by a common factor.</p>
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		<title>By: Worm</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112787</link>
		<dc:creator>Worm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112787</guid>
		<description>Is it better though? You can mask bad players by playing them with good ones, e.g. Maxiell with Monroe and CV with Drummond. However by putting Drummond into the starting lineup, you assure that Maxiell and Villanueva will play together. 82games.com keeps records of 5-man units for each team and a Maxiell-Villanueva lineup doesn&#039;t appear in the top 20 (I&#039;m not sure if it has appeared at all). In fact, the Pistons best lineups are those that feature Drummond with CV. Although the Drummond-Monroe lineup has been relatively good, I shudder to think about how a CV-Maxiell lineup would fare.
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it better though? You can mask bad players by playing them with good ones, e.g. Maxiell with Monroe and CV with Drummond. However by putting Drummond into the starting lineup, you assure that Maxiell and Villanueva will play together. 82games.com keeps records of 5-man units for each team and a Maxiell-Villanueva lineup doesn&#8217;t appear in the top 20 (I&#8217;m not sure if it has appeared at all). In fact, the Pistons best lineups are those that feature Drummond with CV. Although the Drummond-Monroe lineup has been relatively good, I shudder to think about how a CV-Maxiell lineup would fare.<br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: Otis</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112786</link>
		<dc:creator>Otis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112786</guid>
		<description>If this was the case, why would they be in a virtual platoon at center? Obviously there are a lot of doubts within the organization about playing them together or else it would be HAPPENING.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this was the case, why would they be in a virtual platoon at center? Obviously there are a lot of doubts within the organization about playing them together or else it would be HAPPENING.</p>
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		<title>By: Worm</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112785</link>
		<dc:creator>Worm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112785</guid>
		<description>Obviously not in win shares, the whole basis of the chart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously not in win shares, the whole basis of the chart.</p>
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		<title>By: Brigs</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112773</link>
		<dc:creator>Brigs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 04:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112773</guid>
		<description>Forget about Sacramento doin it, why would we do it neither of those guys will help our floor spacing hell Evans jump shot is even worse then stuckeys </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forget about Sacramento doin it, why would we do it neither of those guys will help our floor spacing hell Evans jump shot is even worse then stuckeys </p>
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		<title>By: Vic</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112767</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 03:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112767</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying causation because that would mean if everyone did it, everybody would win, which isimpossible. I said that it shows who&#039;s coach is actually trying effectively... That&#039;s why I suggested it be called &quot;who&#039;s tanking&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying causation because that would mean if everyone did it, everybody would win, which isimpossible. I said that it shows who&#8217;s coach is actually trying effectively&#8230; That&#8217;s why I suggested it be called &#8220;who&#8217;s tanking&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Blocks By Dre</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/every-other-nba-teams-top-two-players-share-the-court-between-two-and-eight-times-as-much-as-pistons-andre-drummond-and-greg-monroe/comment-page-1/#comment-112763</link>
		<dc:creator>Blocks By Dre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12357#comment-112763</guid>
		<description>Wade&gt;Bosh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wade&gt;Bosh</p>
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