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Could Pistons serve as third team in Rudy Gay-to-Raptors trade?

Marc Stein of ESPN:

But sources say that the Raptors, undaunted by that stance, continue to pursue Gay and also covet Grizzlies forward Darrell Arthur. Toronto, sources said, has made veteran point guard Jose Calderon and blossoming young forward Ed Davis available as the two cornerstones of its offer.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports:

The final hurdle for the salary dump of Memphis Grizzlies forward Rudy Gay to the Toronto Raptors hinges on finding a third team to absorb the expiring contract of Raptors guard Jose Calderon, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

"With so many quality point guards, they’re struggling to find a spot for Calderon," one league general manager told Yahoo! Sports.

Preferably, the Grizzlies want a less expensive small forward to plug into the lineup for Gay, sources said. Memphis has been relentless in shopping Gay over the past several weeks.

Hey, I know a team that doesn’t have a quality point guard. Sure, Brandon Knight has good value because of his potential, and Will Bynum has great peaks. But, at this moment, neither is an above-average starting point guard.

Calderon might not be, either – he’s near the median – but he’d be a short-term upgrade who comes with an expiring contract. If the Pistons want to make the playoffs, he would help.

He would also help Detroit evaluate how much a pass-first point guard would help this roster. Calderon is 31, so he’s probably wouldn’t be around once the Pistons’ younger players hit their primes, but perhaps the Pistons need someone of his mold. For the rest of this season, he could help them determine that.

So, whom would the Pistons send to the Grizzlies?

The Pistons have two small forwards of appreciable value: Tayshaun Prince and Kyle Singler.

Prince is the steady veteran who would probably play better in Memphis than Detroit. He’d like the Grizzlies’ slow pace and defensive-first style. Plus, he’s proven as a complementary option on a top team.

Singler is very valuable, locked in for the rest of this season and the next two at $1 million per year. But’s he not as experienced or well-rounded as Prince.

The framework of the trade, if it includes the Pistons, sounds like it would include a few basics:

  • Gay to Toronto
  • Ed Davis to Memphis
  • A draft pick from Toronto to Memphis
  • Jose Calderon to Detroit
  • Prince and/or Singler to Memphis

Here are three trades that would fit the parameters, because I’m not exactly sure whether Memphis would prefer Prince, Singler or require both. All three would include a pick from Toronto to Memphis.

1. Prince version

2. Singler version

3. Prince and Singler version

I’d definitely do No. 1. I’m up in the air about No. 2 and No. 3.

58 Comments

  • Jan 30, 201310:46 am
    by menten

    Reply

    joe wont do a trade. he usually takes 4 years between trades, we already made one in the off season

  • Jan 30, 201310:56 am
    by jacob

    Reply

  • Jan 30, 201310:59 am
    by cr29

    Reply

    Joe would need to check and make sure Tay is ok with the trade, for some reason. Also, Joe won’t trade Tay. Also, he should. Oh well.

  • Jan 30, 201310:59 am
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    If we trade Prince and Singler who would be our starting SF??.

    • Jan 30, 201311:05 am
      by G

      Reply

      Jerebko, Daye, Maggette, English could all play there… The big problem is Detroit is thin at PF and C, and losing Maxiell would exacerbate that.

      • Jan 30, 201311:29 am
        by Jodi Jezz

        Reply

        OK, I wouldn’t mind doing this trade…Jonas, Daye, Spaghetti, and English aren’t long-term fits at SF though…Hopefully we spend big on Josh Smith this summer to be our new SF going forward…
        Knight/Calderon
        ??????/English
        Smith/Jonas
        Moose/Smith
        Penguin/Moose/Slava

        • Jan 30, 20132:06 pm
          by G

          Reply

          I’m iffy on Josh Smith. They really need shooters & floor spacing, I’d rather they go after Kevin Martin.

  • Jan 30, 201311:16 am
    by RL

    Reply

    Having Calderon at the point and Knight in the shooting position will allow a better orchestrated offense and have 3 options for scoring (between Monroe, Knight, & Drummond). Wishful thinking perhaps??? lol

  • Jan 30, 201311:24 am
    by vic

    Reply

    Pretty Please. It just makes too much basketball sense.

    • Jan 30, 201312:16 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      absolutely correct.
      it makes so much sense, no way it happens. 
      it is like the dallas/butler/tay trade from a couple of years back.
      too perfect for detroit, but no way joe would ever trade tay. 
      calderone would fit perfectly with the starters.
      he’d give the starters a 3 point threat from the pg spot.
      he would be a devastating pick and roll guy with drummond.
      (i’ve watched a fair number of toronto games over the last few years.  i tune in to see how amir is doing.  calderone makes amir look like an all star when they run pick and roll.  it is a truly impressive sight to see him pick apart a defense and work with a guy who will roll hard to the rim.)
      he lets knight go off the ball.
      trading tay allows singler to move over to the 3.
      starters:
      calderone
      knight
      singler
      drummond
      monroe.
      the downsides are that calderone is 31.  he plays no defense.  and with this starting unit, the pistons might very well make the playoffs and lose their draft choice to toronto.
      the trade even works for memphis as tay would fit right in with their slow, deliberate half court offense and he could go back to being the 4th or 5th option, which is his best role in a good team’s offense.
      like you said, it makes too much basketball sense.
       

      • Jan 30, 201312:19 pm
        by Jodi Jezz

        Reply

        We’ll never be a competitive or respectable team with Singler in our starting line-up…

        • Jan 30, 201312:39 pm
          by Mone

          Reply

          I agree..

          • Jan 30, 20131:36 pm
            by frankie d

            i meant lose their draft choice to charlotte.
            my error.
            while singler has not proven that he is a starting caliber SF on a contending team, i think the evidence is pretty strong that he can fill that role.
            just my opinion. 

        • Jan 30, 20134:09 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          There is not a single player in the NBA whose presence could single-handedly prevent a team from being competitive by being in the starting lineup. But even if there was, it certainly would not be Singler. He is a low upside guy and would not function as the feature of an offense or defense. But he also plays to his role well and makes few mistakes. He is exactly the kind of player that teams try to fill out the rotation with once they’ve put together a core.

          I don’t think I have ever seen someone so obsessed with the idea that a player is terrible as you are with Singler. Get off it. Nobody thinks he is a star. But your claims that he is worthless don’t hold up at all. And your insistence upon making them in every post on this site just makes you look like a raving lunatic. 

  • Jan 30, 201311:38 am
    by apa8ren9

    Reply

    This trade, in any form listed above should happen immediately. 

  • Jan 30, 201311:44 am
    by RalphHau

    Reply

    My choice would be to throw in Stuckey for starters, then Prince and the bucket man.  Stuckey has packed it in for the rest of the season.  Prince just stands around waiting for the ball to come to him and bucket man does better on the streets than he does on the court. 

    • Jan 30, 20134:15 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Bucket man? Who goes around making these idiotic nicknames up?Can’t we just call players by their names? Heck, earlier in this post, someone is talking about Spaghetti, Moose, and Penguin. I don’t get it. Do you somehow feel like you are cool when you refer to guys by something other than their names? Come on people, you’re better than that.

      • Jan 30, 20134:47 pm
        by Anthony

        Reply

        of course another troll

      • Jan 30, 20135:02 pm
        by Brigs

        Reply

        wats wrong with shortening up or using nicknames instead of spelling out his whole name, I dunno who spaghetti or penguin but moose is a lot easier then writing out Greg Monroe 

  • Jan 30, 201311:46 am
    by Al

    Reply

    This team could use a breath of fresh air right now! A trade would do just the trick. It could provide a stable rotation, rid the log jam of players being wasted and perhaps provide a spark to a team that is struggling to find its identity. Man, hope Joe D at least answers the phone since they are desperate to find a team who needs a quality point guard!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jan 30, 201311:48 am
    by Crispus

    Reply

    Joe has to make a trade. The roster as it stands is a log jam of veteran mediocrity and un-evaluated potential. Find out once and for all who among the benchwarmers is worth keeping and who should go.

  • Jan 30, 201312:04 pm
    by tim

    Reply

    who plays sf if we trade both prince and singler?  Daye and maggette? no thanks.  JJ is still in the doghouse and not a good enough outside shooter to play the 3 full time IMO

    • Jan 30, 201312:40 pm
      by Mone

      Reply

      Prince takes less than one 3 a game, so he might as well not be able to shoot. Daye is the best shooter on the Pistons. Prince has been garbage this year. Why are so many people stuck on him????

    • Jan 30, 20134:18 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      JJ, Daye, English, Stuckey, CV, Maggette. In that order. But as you can see, there are lots of options. Maybe not great options. But Prince and Singler aren’t great options either. Address that need in the offseason. In the meantime, the team can find people to plug in.

  • Jan 30, 201312:12 pm
    by inigo montoya

    Reply

    Try to make Toronto and Memphis happy.

    Toronto wants to trade Calderon and Bargnani, wants Gay and Arthur
    Memphis wants Ross and Davis and to shed salary but I think they will take a couple of expiring contracts in Maxiell and Bynum.
    Detroit gets an expiring in Calderon, takes Bargnani and Kleiza and get two 1st round draft choices, one each from Toronto (2015) and Memphis (2014) and a 2016 1st round pick from Toronto.

     http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a764wgw

     

    • Jan 30, 20134:42 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Toronto wants Gay. But do you honestly believe they would give up Ross, Davis, Calderon, and two 1st rounders just to bring him in and get rid of Bargs? Gay’s a nice player but not a superstar. Ad he’s overpaid. Also, Toronto has already said that Ross is not on the table.

      Besides, the trade you described wouldn’t even come close to working since you are talking about Detroit bringing in about $25M while sending out less than $10M.

      Also, why is the trade you described so different from the trade machine link you put there? 

  • Jan 30, 201312:52 pm
    by Ryank

    Reply

    I don’t see this as a good move unless we could unload CV’s contract with Tay.  Why bring in Caldron from half a season and have nothing to show for it but cap space next year?  If we can move CV along with Tay, that would benefit us greatly.  Sending Singler isn’t a good option unless we can get some sort of asset in return.
     

    • Jan 30, 20134:43 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      How does moving CV help the Pistons? For Detroit, Charlie is essentially an expiring deal because they can amnesty him. But he’s not for anyone else. So the Pistons would have to give another team perfectly good assets to take him off their hands.

      And I think the idea with Calderon is to resign him in the offseason, albeit to a much less expensive deal. 

  • Jan 30, 201312:56 pm
    by vic

    Reply

    Trade Prince and Bynum/Stuckey.
    Preferably Bynum.
    Stuckey never got a fair chance at pg this year after playing some of the best ball of his career last year, and is better defensively than Bynum.

    I like Bynum, but I’d trade Prince and Bynum, get Calderon.

    If Gores is smart he’d make Joe do it. Nothing to create some buzz like a good trade that also makes basketball sense, on a team that could possibly make a run for the playoffs.

    Yeah the upcoming schedule is brutal but with a pg that increases assists and decreases turnovers and the transition points that comes from them,
    the Pistons could increase significantly on offense AND defense with Calderon.

    Calderon at PG is BETTER for the Pistons defense than Knight at PG, because turnovers hurt a defense more than anything. They literally create undefendable offense for the other team, every single time. 

    Basketball sense, again… not that complicated.

  • Jan 30, 20131:00 pm
    by Dre Drum

    Reply

    I’d rather have Lowry than Calderon, but, since Toronto is only shopping him, i think it could work if Calderon makes something similar to Jarrett Jack on the Warriors: share point guard responsabilities with Curry (Knight in our case) and in crunch time he has the ball in his hands to create the offense. I think it would allow Knight to learn from Calderon and develop a better PG game without so much pressure and still letting him do his thing as an 3-point shooter. I don’t like Calderon’s defense, but that’s what has to be done.

    • Jan 30, 20134:51 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I am guessing either could be had. But Lowry would cost more than Calderon. The questions are how much more and how much more is he worth.

  • Jan 30, 20131:05 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    Sorry for being a careful reader, but I don’t see how you could gloss over a word as crucial as ”absorb.” That seems to imply that Memphis isn’t taking on comparable salary, which would eliminate the Pistons from this discussion.

    • Jan 30, 20131:09 pm
      by jacob

      Reply

      We could give up expiring contracts. Daye Max Bynum Maggette

    • Jan 30, 20131:10 pm
      by DasMark

      Reply

      Prince is half the price of Gay. Bynum is expiring. So, they aren’t in trouble of hitting the luxury tax. 

      I like the Prince trade. It keeps Memphis on track for a “win now” team. Calderon wouldn’t surprise me if he quickly cracked the starting line-up and pushed Knight to the 2, and Singler to the 3. 

      • Jan 30, 20131:53 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        memphis has tons of flexibility since they made the trade with cleveland.
        they could absorb salary if they wanted to do so.
        calderon is simply excess baggage.  they don’t need him.
        conley is their starter.
        tony wroten has started to play well as his backup.  jerrod bayless, combo guard supreme, has started to play well.  they definitely don’t need a 10 million dollar addition to their point guard corps. 
        on the other hand, if you take gay out of the line up, they have a gaping hole at the SF spot.
        prince fits perfectly.
        for detroit, it almost doesn’t matter who they get for prince.  getting rid of him is the perfect example of addition by subtraction.
        singler, jj, daye, english, stuckey…they have more than enough guys to eat up tay’s 34 minutes at the SF spot. 
        in fact, once tay is gone, the team is instantly improved as those young guys will be able to move into their proper roles and add the energy that only young legs can provide.
        tay is the domino that must fall before this team moves forward.
         

        • Jan 30, 20132:54 pm
          by Crispus

          Reply

          “tay is the domino that must fall before this team moves forward.”

          Haha I love this sentence. 

          • Jan 30, 20134:05 pm
            by frankie d

            i know…i know…i started to warn about the mixed metaphor, but i decided, what the heck.
            i think you know what i meant to say, anyway…
            i laughed about it also.  
            elegant? no.  
            comprehensible?  i hope so. 

        • Jan 30, 20133:52 pm
          by Piston Truth

          Reply

          OMG yes thank you! love this post, tay’s moving will open up the basketball heavens lol

    • Jan 30, 20134:58 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Actually even in a straight up two team trade, the Pistons could cut a lot of salary from the Grizz. The new CBA allows trade to be a lot more lopsided payroll-wise. For example, with this deal, besides the fact that over $8M of what is coming in to Memphis is expiring, they would cut $5.5M from the books for this year:
      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aqzzngs 

  • Jan 30, 20131:08 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    The Memphis Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors are reportedly burning up the phones lines to bring in a third team to help facilitate a trade which would see Rudy Gay head to Canada, but so far the two teams have not figured out the right player combination.

    The Raptors are willing to move several players including Jose Calderon, Andrea Bargnani and Kyle Lowry, but one rookie is not available.

    Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports writes: “The Grizzlies have unsuccessfully tried to pry Raptors rookie Terrence Ross as part of the deal, sources said. Toronto has deemed Ross untouchable in these talks.”

    The Raptors could change their stance if the Grizzlies or a third team sweeten the assets going back to Toronto.

  • Jan 30, 20131:23 pm
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    Wow, this would make so much sense. I mean, it’s no promising-Piston-rookie-for-a-future-second-rounder-to-make-room-for-an-overpaid-bust, but I still think Joe D should consider it. 

    Calderon could probably do with a change of scenery. I think he could flourish here and help mentor Knight. Worst case scenario, he’s an expiring contract. Then again, with Joe D’s negotiating skills, that’s probably a best case scenario.

  • Jan 30, 20131:54 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    Get Lowry, get rid of Prince Stuckey and max or bynum

  • Jan 30, 20132:06 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    as a sidenote, it is hard to believe any team would willingly trade for the incredibly inflated contract that gay has.  
    he’s a nice player, if he was making around 10 million or so.
    but paying this guy 16, 18 and 19 million over the next three years?
    are you kidding me?
    but hey, if toronto is dumb enough to trade for him, and if detroit can pick up calderon as part of the deal, god bless those fools. 

    • Jan 30, 20132:42 pm
      by tim

      Reply

      No, I am done with Tay.  Have been for at least the last 2 years.  He brings very little to the table anymore

  • Jan 30, 20132:18 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Tay as a Piston is stale and I’m over it.  Plus, a trade is exciting.  Still, it doesn’t make sense to trade your starting SF for an expiring contract.  We are on pace for plenty of cap space this summer as is.  We need an asset in return (young player, draft pick, etc.).  BAD TRADE.

    • Jan 30, 20132:33 pm
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      The problem is that he would only be a starting SF on our team and probably no other one in the league.

      • Jan 30, 20135:01 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        The Pistons are bad, but not insanely bad. Prince would start on plenty of teams. Like Memphis post-Gay trade.

  • Jan 30, 20132:37 pm
    by Brian S

    Reply

    This does make just too much sense… The other ancillary benefit is that Stuckey works better in a 3 guard rotation with Calderon… Stuckey and Bynum – the odd hot game aside – just cannot play together… Their skills are redundant.  Its no coincidence Stuckey’s best stretch of the season came when Bynum was completely benched.  The fact that both Knight and Calderon can be off ball spot-up shooters would be huge for Stuckey’s game.  Now, this helps this year, but in terms of future benefit, their may be very little other than opening even more cap space.  Also perhaps better play from Stuckey increases his trade value after the season if we are looking at some unbalanced money/talent trades with that cap space

  • Jan 30, 20132:37 pm
    by AtotheK

    Reply

    Don’t know how to share the link from trade machine, but this one works:
    Pistons get Calderon, Ed Davis
    Raps get Gay, Arthur, Daye
    Griz get Prince, Bargnani, Maxiell
    Maybe there’s a pick in there somewhere, don’t know if Griz or Raps go for it, but then we could focus on flipping Stucky for a different perimeter player and we could work on finally getting a real rotation set.

    • Jan 30, 20135:04 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      No way the Grizz go for that. The entire point of trading Gay is to remove his heavy contract. So they’re not going to take back Bargs.

      If the Pistons wanted that deal to happen, they would have to take Bargs and give Memphis Maggette. 

  • Jan 30, 20133:17 pm
    by bugsygod

    Reply

    I want more than just calderon.  So basically we are trading Prince/bynum for calderon? singler/bynum& maxiel for calderon? prince,singler and bynum for calderon?   Im just saying that is a high price to rent a guy for a few months.  I know we get another expiring contract and a pass first pg, but damn either 2 starters or 3 rotation guys.  I would not do any of those for just calderon, have to have more.   

    • Jan 30, 20135:09 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Part of the point is: why would the PIstons want to have Prince, Bynum, Maxiell? These are mediocre players on fair contracts. In other words, the Pistons can always replace them with comparable guys int he offseason if desired. I’d rather get draft picks for them, but I have no reason to believe Dumars is savvy enough to turn them into future assets like that.

  • Jan 30, 20133:44 pm
    by Piston Truth

    Reply

    I like the the 1st fo sho because I think you are giving up too much if you do the other 2 trades. plus if the pistons get rid of prince we move singler back to SF and put knight at SG and Jose at the point we dont want to lose both SF, and this time start drummond so he can get use to the new line up. With this move it kind of remind me of the ’02 pistion team that was coming up with Dana Barros at PG and we brung in Corliss Willamson and Cliff Robinson on the team to help with Stackhouse and Lost in the second rd to the celtics. so I like the move it puts a more passing veteran guard in the line up and it gives Knight a more athletic approach to play free that way by the summer you can either sign Jose for another year of two for the vets min since he will be 32 yo, or just draft you a guard like a trey burke that can bring his raw talent in also either starting or behind Jose. If we can find another way to package Stuckey and Maxiel then im really on board.

    FUTURE LINE UP IF THIS HAPPENS:

    Caledron-PG
    Knight-SG
    Singler-SF
    Monroe-PF
    Drummond-C

  • Jan 30, 20134:36 pm
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    I dont care who gets traded as long as its not Dre or BK.  Not sure why I want to keep BK, maybe its because he was on the honor roll or its because he’s articulate in interviews and reminds me of Carlton. 

  • Jan 30, 20134:48 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    How do people feel about this deal with the Raptors sending the Pistons a first rounder with some protection? It would cost the Pistons about $7M in cap space for the coming offseason, but with the pick coming in, that essentially just undoes the BG trade.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aj2uc6s 

    • Jan 30, 20135:39 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Even better. Not so much fluff this time:
      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=amt58u3

      • Jan 30, 20136:03 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Seriously. Who says no to this?

        The Raptors get exactly what they wanted. They bring in Gay while only losing one of Lowry and Calderon. They have to give up both Davis and Ross but they get to rid themselves of Bargs.

        Memphis gets what they want. A cheaper replacement for Gay. And Ross who they are known to covet. And they cut more than $7M off the books right now. Heck, they’d probably be willing to throw in a first rounder.

        Minny has been known to have issues with Love. So they get to replace him at a major discount. Plus they get Davis to make up for the fact that they are getting a slight downgrade. Depending on how badly they want to compete right now instead of waiting for Love to heal, they may be willing to take Aaron Gray instead of Ed Davis.

        Detroit replaces Monroe with an even better big man who can shoot. They get Lowry who is basically what we hope Knight can become. And the only downside is having to take back Bargs, which is unfortunate. But if there is anyone who can compliment him and hide his flaws, it is Drummond. Plus, with him around, Dumars doesn’t have to worry about not having a “stretch 4″ when amnestying CV. Detroit does lose about $10M in cap room for next season, but, providing they sever ties with CV, Daye, Bynum, and Max, they’ll still be at right around $40-45M in committed payroll. That should leave about $15M to spend in free agency.

        The Memphis pick probably goes to Toronto. If Minny was willing to take Gray instead of Davis, though, it can go to Detroit. 

  • Jan 30, 20137:41 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    It happened! No way! Dumars did something right!

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