Comments on: Vince Ellis: Increased minutes for Andre Drummond shouldn’t come at the expense of Jason Maxiell http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Thu, 23 May 2013 16:54:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Chris H http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101555 Chris H Sat, 08 Dec 2012 02:01:16 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101555 I'm trolling here, but in theory BG was coming off of his best season ever and was going to be a force in this league for several years to come. CV would stretch the floor every night opening up lanes for a younger Rodney Stuckey to drive, create, and finish at the rim.  All the while Rip would run his man through numerous screens and ALWAYS be open because of the space created by BG and CV.  It completely worked out that way too... in my dream world. I’m trolling here, but in theory BG was coming off of his best season ever and was going to be a force in this league for several years to come. CV would stretch the floor every night opening up lanes for a younger Rodney Stuckey to drive, create, and finish at the rim.  All the while Rip would run his man through numerous screens and ALWAYS be open because of the space created by BG and CV.  It completely worked out that way too… in my dream world.

]]> By: Chris H http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101552 Chris H Sat, 08 Dec 2012 01:55:47 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101552 That's still not saying a whole lot.  It's basically saying that he is doing pretty good when compared to one of the worst defenders in the NBA... himself... I don't think that means he even makes it to even an average NBA defender.  I've never been particularly impressed with Charlie V's playstyle, even in college. He never seemed to have that intensity, that drive that other players clearly have.  I was hoping that it was something that maybe I just didn't see, but no.  I mean how can someone apparently work so hard over an off season and no look like anything has changed in his entire game.  I mean hell look at what Monroe has developed in two years, mind you he maybe, maybe needed to develop more things than Charlie V, but at least I see the parts he has added to his game.    That’s still not saying a whole lot.  It’s basically saying that he is doing pretty good when compared to one of the worst defenders in the NBA… himself… I don’t think that means he even makes it to even an average NBA defender.  I’ve never been particularly impressed with Charlie V’s playstyle, even in college. He never seemed to have that intensity, that drive that other players clearly have.  I was hoping that it was something that maybe I just didn’t see, but no.  I mean how can someone apparently work so hard over an off season and no look like anything has changed in his entire game.  I mean hell look at what Monroe has developed in two years, mind you he maybe, maybe needed to develop more things than Charlie V, but at least I see the parts he has added to his game.   

]]> By: Chris H http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101548 Chris H Sat, 08 Dec 2012 01:46:26 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101548 I think it is worth point out that while these two are both PF/C they are in no way similar players.  Drummond is a physical beast.  Everyone that wanted to figure out a way to get Cousins and Monroe together, well Drummond and Monroe would be a very similar duo when Drummond smoothes out his offense.  I think the very last thing Drummond needs to learn is a jump shot, it'd be nice, but I want to see those post moves down.  I want him on the block getting the other teams best bigs in foul trouble so that they are on the bench, and Monroe doesn't have to deal with them. I think it is worth point out that while these two are both PF/C they are in no way similar players.  Drummond is a physical beast.  Everyone that wanted to figure out a way to get Cousins and Monroe together, well Drummond and Monroe would be a very similar duo when Drummond smoothes out his offense.  I think the very last thing Drummond needs to learn is a jump shot, it’d be nice, but I want to see those post moves down.  I want him on the block getting the other teams best bigs in foul trouble so that they are on the bench, and Monroe doesn’t have to deal with them.

]]> By: Chris H http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101547 Chris H Sat, 08 Dec 2012 01:37:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101547 First just like to say who thought drummond would really be this good this early.  The only reason I am ok with Maxiell getting more minutes with Monroe right now is because we should be trying to trade him.  There is no reason to save a roster spot for Maxiell next year, we have several young bigs that we need to find out about and get game experience.   Let's face it with the way amnesty actually works we are not going to amnesty CV.  There is simply not a reason to, unless there is a max contract free agent that is willing to come here and we need capspace to get him.  That being said can we for one second imagine a front court with Dwight Howard, Monroe and Drummond.  *sigh* I just imagined a block party every night... Anyway, it's not going to happen.  So yeah, let's get a trade for Max.  Playing the way he is I am sure there are many teams he could help.  First just like to say who thought drummond would really be this good this early.  The only reason I am ok with Maxiell getting more minutes with Monroe right now is because we should be trying to trade him.  There is no reason to save a roster spot for Maxiell next year, we have several young bigs that we need to find out about and get game experience.  

Let’s face it with the way amnesty actually works we are not going to amnesty CV.  There is simply not a reason to, unless there is a max contract free agent that is willing to come here and we need capspace to get him.  That being said can we for one second imagine a front court with Dwight Howard, Monroe and Drummond.  *sigh* I just imagined a block party every night… Anyway, it’s not going to happen. 

So yeah, let’s get a trade for Max.  Playing the way he is I am sure there are many teams he could help. 

]]> By: I HATE FRANK http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101529 I HATE FRANK Sat, 08 Dec 2012 00:25:20 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101529 my case for bring Maxiell off the bench is that...Maxiell will not only bring Energy off the bench, he also would become a guy that shoot that 15 foot jumper, and has a serviceable post up game....Drummond is all about rebounding and defense...Any Offense Drummond bring is all considered grazy, ....Maxiell scoring and points are expected... Moving Monroe to PF... means all of Sudden he gets a chance to knock down those 15 foot jumpers and to drive the ball more...Increasing Drummond chances to clean up the offensive boards even more...with Monroe in the line up (IN THEORY)   my case for bring Maxiell off the bench is that…Maxiell will not only bring Energy off the bench, he also would become a guy that shoot that 15 foot jumper, and has a serviceable post up game….Drummond is all about rebounding and defense…Any Offense Drummond bring is all considered grazy, ….Maxiell scoring and points are expected… Moving Monroe to PF… means all of Sudden he gets a chance to knock down those 15 foot jumpers and to drive the ball more…Increasing Drummond chances to clean up the offensive boards even more…with Monroe in the line up

(IN THEORY)

 

]]> By: revken http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101514 revken Fri, 07 Dec 2012 23:22:02 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101514 Agreed.  Maxiell is averaging about 27 minutes per game - a career high.  Even if you keep him at that level, it still leaves 21 minutes for Drummond, who is currently averaging 17.  Earlier in the season Frank was mostly subbing Drummond for Monroe, which obviously was going to limit his minutes.  Now that he's usually coming in for Maxiell, his minutes are increasing.  The better he plays, the sooner he'll come in and the longer he'll stay in.  I'm fine with that.  Agreed.  Maxiell is averaging about 27 minutes per game – a career high.  Even if you keep him at that level, it still leaves 21 minutes for Drummond, who is currently averaging 17.  Earlier in the season Frank was mostly subbing Drummond for Monroe, which obviously was going to limit his minutes.  Now that he’s usually coming in for Maxiell, his minutes are increasing.  The better he plays, the sooner he’ll come in and the longer he’ll stay in.  I’m fine with that. 

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101503 Patrick Hayes Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:50:54 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101503 <p>I don't disagree with that, necessarily, but it depends on what you compare his effort to. Charlie V's defensive effort this season compared to a good defensive player is still not good. Charlie V's defensive effort this season compared to Charlie V's previous defensive efforts is pretty good. </p> I don’t disagree with that, necessarily, but it depends on what you compare his effort to.

Charlie V’s defensive effort this season compared to a good defensive player is still not good.

Charlie V’s defensive effort this season compared to Charlie V’s previous defensive efforts is pretty good. 

]]> By: Scott Free http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101502 Scott Free Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:37:14 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101502 I don't get the decision to remove Jerebko from the lineup entirely.  The minutes are there for both he AND cv depending on who's hitting -- and I think Jonas was the only Piston whose stuggles weren't given the benefit of the doubt.   I don’t get the decision to remove Jerebko from the lineup entirely.  The minutes are there for both he AND cv depending on who’s hitting — and I think Jonas was the only Piston whose stuggles weren’t given the benefit of the doubt.  

]]> By: Ozzie-Moto http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101501 Ozzie-Moto Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:33:44 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101501 Why Drumonds starting is important: 1: One of the reasons that it harder to get his time in with Monroe is that Monroe starts so they are out of sink, if you start out of sink then it harder to get their minutes together 2: Don't under value your players to the other teams, refs, your own fans..  Confidence effects how things play out. You don't want to over extend what you have in a players potential, OK error on the side of caution but if he already running with the ball don't hold him back ... some players get sort of "handled" to death .. they loose their MOJO ...  3  Work on and feature you most devastating players together to set the tone ... OK if you limit him in the first half minute wise but start him  then have the minutes when it counts in then 2nd half.  4 People might realize that you realize you got something going and SHOW up to see you play 5 Play what you see as your wining hand in the future because where you are now is obviously not good enough ...  Detroit has not been the spot fo natural stars. You like and mold the hard working or me against the world kind) So the organization sort of takes the "Shine" of them when it not really necessary.   Why Drumonds starting is important:

1: One of the reasons that it harder to get his time in with Monroe is that Monroe starts so they are out of sink, if you start out of sink then it harder to get their minutes together

2: Don’t under value your players to the other teams, refs, your own fans..  Confidence effects how things play out. You don’t want to over extend what you have in a players potential, OK error on the side of caution but if he already running with the ball don’t hold him back … some players get sort of “handled” to death .. they loose their MOJO … 

3  Work on and feature you most devastating players together to set the tone … OK if you limit him in the first half minute wise but start him  then have the minutes when it counts in then 2nd half. 

4 People might realize that you realize you got something going and SHOW up to see you play

5 Play what you see as your wining hand in the future because where you are now is obviously not good enough … 

Detroit has not been the spot fo natural stars. You like and mold the hard working or me against the world kind) So the organization sort of takes the “Shine” of them when it not really necessary.

 

]]> By: Ozzie-Moto http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12/vince-ellis-increased-minutes-for-andre-drummond-shouldnt-come-at-the-expense-of-jason-maxiell/comment-page-1/#comment-101498 Ozzie-Moto Fri, 07 Dec 2012 22:15:12 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=12005#comment-101498 Patrick. I don't think you go far enough.....  Yes merit is the founding principle for playing time BUT there are modifying factors depending on how truly competitive the team is, upside potential of the player, contract length, cap space etc etc etc. The more competitive the team is the more that just emendate results count. The more a team is rebuilding the more you have to factor in the rest.  GIVEN JD track record of over valuing existing players i would not be surprised if JD signs Maxiel next year for to much money (not a lot but) So if that the case you might as well START DRUMOND NOW and work max in his new role or get boooed out of Detroit (rightfully so) for stunting another good draft pick ......    Patrick.
I don’t think you go far enough…..  Yes merit is the founding principle for playing time BUT there are modifying factors depending on how truly competitive the team is, upside potential of the player, contract length, cap space etc etc etc. The more competitive the team is the more that just emendate results count. The more a team is rebuilding the more you have to factor in the rest.  GIVEN JD track record of over valuing existing players i would not be surprised if JD signs Maxiel next year for to much money (not a lot but) So if that the case you might as well START DRUMOND NOW and work max in his new role or get boooed out of Detroit (rightfully so) for stunting another good draft pick ……   

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