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Loss to Warriors exposes Pistons’ reliance on faux accomplishments

For the last four seasons, the Pistons and Warriors have finished with losing records.

In 2008-09, the Warriors won 29 games. The Pistons won 39.

The next year, the Warriors won 26 games. The Pistons won 27.

Last season, Warriors won 23 games. The Pistons won 25.

With 2010-11 the only exception, the Pistons have finished with a better record than the Warriors lately – the type of faux accomplishment the Pistons love brag about.

Who cares that the Pistons played themselves out of better draft picks more successfully than the Warriors did? Who cares that the Pistons had won five straight at The Palace?

After the Pistons’ 104-97 home loss to the Warriors tonight, the answers should be nobody.

Golden State has drafted well and hired a coach, Mark Jackson, who has done an excellent job of developing the team’s young talent and integrating it with the veterans. I didn’t expect Jackson to be so successful, but here we are.

The Warriors (11-7) are a legitimately good team. The Pistons (6-14) are not.

The Pistons might be headed in the right direction, but it hasn’t happened fast enough. Instead of celebrating real gains, like the Warriors have made, the Pistons hang their hats on nonsense.

The latest faux accomplishment the Pistons had sold was their five-game home winning streak. But their five opponents in the run have a combined 33-60 record, and the only one with a winning record was playing a back-to-back and its fourth game in five days. When the Pistons played a team as good as Golden State, the streak abruptly ended.

Sure, it was nice the Pistons won those games, but they don’t necessarily mean the Pistons are making progress.

And sure, it was nice the Pistons the Pistons cut a 20-point fourth-quarter deficit to three points late, but that’s likely another meaningless accomplishment. Golden State let up and Detroit made a few plays, but it never really felt like the Pistons had enough late to win this game.

The Pistons might try to sell the comeback as a big deal, but that’s just too difficult to accept right now. The Warriors, who not long ago were in a similar boat to the Pistons, are actually good now – you know, a real accomplishment. Everything the Pistons are spewing pales in comparison.

Golden State Warriors 104 Final
Recap | Box Score
97 Detroit Pistons
Jason Maxiell, PF 24 MIN | 1-4 FG | 2-2 FT | 7 REB | 1 AST | 4 PTS | -22

David Lee (20 points on 7-of-12 shooting and 11 rebounds) torched him.

Tayshaun Prince, SF 35 MIN | 10-18 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 5 AST | 24 PTS | -5

Prince took a season-high 18 shots, but he was the Pistons’ best offensive option tonight, so I’m fine with that. Plus, with five assists, it’s not like moved the ball poorly. He also played solid defense on Harrison Barnes, who shot 2-for-7. Prince had just two rebounds in 35 minutes, but he didn’t really hurt the Pistons on the glass. Detroit out-rebounded Golden State, 44-35, anyway. Prince just didn’t help on the glass, a picky criticism in an otherwise excellent game.

Kyle Singler, SF 32 MIN | 1-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 3 PTS | -10

Klay Thompson (27 points on 9-of-13 shooting) torched him.

Greg Monroe, C 22 MIN | 3-6 FG | 3-4 FT | 5 REB | 3 AST | 9 PTS | -24

He just wasn’t that involved in this game, which, at some point if it hasn’t already, will become unacceptable. Monroe did alright in his limited role, but he must take a large role for this team going forward. For the foreseeable future, Monroe is the Pistons’ best player, and for them to win most nights, he must try to play like it. Sometimes, his production will fall short, but his usage usually can’t.

Brandon Knight, PG 24 MIN | 1-9 FG | 1-3 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 4 PTS | +3

I don’t whether his four turnovers or 1-for-9 shooting was more upsetting. I don’t even blame him for trouble defending Stephen Curry (22 points and 10 assists). It’s easy to see Curry becoming a star soon. It’s easy to see Knight becoming an average starting point guard soon. Tonight, the difference showed.

Charlie Villanueva, PF 19 MIN | 5-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 11 PTS | +15

Greg Monroe re-entered the game before Villanueva entered once, so it appeared Villanueva might have been out of the rotation. Villanueva got his chance midway through the second quarter when Monroe picked up his third foul, but I’m not sure how much Villanueva would have played had Monroe avoided foul trouble. If Villanueva is in danger of losing his rotation spot, he probably did enough tonight to hang on for at least another game.

Andre Drummond, C 31 MIN | 6-8 FG | 3-7 FT | 12 REB | 0 AST | 15 PTS | +17

Drummond had a very obvious and very terrible defensive lapse shortly after entering the game, losing track of Festus Ezeli, who went right to the rim for an easy alley-oop from Stephen Curry. Thankfully, the Pistons stuck with Drummond for 31 minutes – six more than his previous high – because he was awesome tonight. He made an impact all over defensively and on the glass, and he limited his shots to high-percentage ones.

Rodney Stuckey, PG 31 MIN | 5-11 FG | 6-7 FT | 4 REB | 9 AST | 17 PTS | -1

Is Stuckey a better point guard right now than Knight? If Drummond keeps getting major minutes, I suspect that will become the most-debated Pistons topic.

Lawrence Frank, HEAD COACH

Frank did the most important thing: playing Drummond more minutes. Everything else is secondary, and in those areas, I think Frank was fine. The Warriors successfully attacked the Pistons’ lack of foot speed, primarily with Singler at shooting guard and Maxiell at power forward. I’m not sure what else Frank could have done about it besides have better players. Most of us agree making Singler the starting shooting guard has improved the Pistons, and Frank sat Maxiell in favor of Drummond.


  • Dec 5, 201210:36 pm
    by Edgar


    Hear freaking hear.

  • Dec 5, 201210:41 pm
    by Haan


    Yo, great game by Drummond.

  • Dec 5, 201210:42 pm


    lets not speak of anything except for Drummond

    • Dec 5, 201210:56 pm
      by Lake Side Live


      Can someone call DJxNVxME and have him make another sweet Andre Drummond mixtape to console ourselves about the first quarter of this season?

  • Dec 5, 201210:49 pm
    by Lake Side Live


    There was an argument after the game agaist Dallas in regards to Andre getting benched after three bad defensive series while Monroe played on despite shooting 4-17. 

    In tonights game we saw Greg Monroe on the bench during the entire 4th quarter.  In his stead was Charlie V.  Both players finished with 50% shooting with greg getting 9 points and charlie having 11 greg had 5 bounds charlie 4 greg had 3 assists and a block charlie had a steal and a block.

    The argument had been made that in the Dallas game Greg was kept in because he was the best player and is given the benefit of the doubt to work through on court problems.  So why wasn’t he in in 4th quarter tonight.  Granted he made 5 out of 8 shots but know one could have known that going in.

    So what the reason in this game our best player was benched, was he being put on notice?  Did Frank not want to disrupt the gulp “chemistry” that charlie had created on while on the floor?  Or would have not have mattered because BK7′s turnover and two missed threes were part of our inevitable doom?       

    • Dec 5, 201210:52 pm
      by Lake Side Live


      Sorry addendum could it be soley based on the fact that greg had had 4 fouls and four turnovers while only had two fouls?

    • Dec 5, 201210:55 pm
      by rick


      Monroe should sit down everytime he fails to hustle on defense and shoot 18foot jumpers. Look I like him but I believe that Drummonds ceeiling is higher than his simply because the kid hits offensive glass and plays defense. Monroe on the other hand is a good defensive rebounder and passer,but horrible defender and should sit on the block instead of top of key. The reason he plays is because he has tenure and who else are they gonna play. Me personally Id take my lumps and make him sit and learn. Unfortunately for us we have not had noone to challenge him or even replace him with during games the last three seasons. Dude needs to seriously work with a strength and conditioner coach and gain some stamina. My grandmother runs faster than he does.

    • Dec 5, 201210:59 pm
      by Lake Side Live


      Correction “Granted he, Charlie V,  made 5 out of 8 shots but know one could have known that going in.”

  • Dec 5, 201210:53 pm
    by dtmfr


    Good grief, why do you feel the need to invent stuff to whine about?  Daily writer’s block?  Pistons won 5 in a row a home.  It hadn’t happened in a few years.  Doesn’t matter who they played.  They won the games on their schedule.  Try not to fault the marketing dept. for pointing it out.  They have a job to do.  It’s quite possible you were the only one paying any attention to it anyway.  Do you think Steph Curry missing most of last season had anything to do with Golden State’s record last year? I noticed you chose not to mention that.  If I were you I would go easy on crowning Golden State as a legitmately good team. Pistons turnaround hasn’t happened “fast enough.” Says who?  Was the Golden State turn around fast enough?  How many decades has it been? You’re the one who needs to stop “spewing” nonsense.

    • Dec 5, 201211:06 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Haha, my least favorite commenter. Always a treat when you stop by to whine about something.

      You know what the most impressive thing about Golden State as compared to the Pistons is? The Warriors legitimately have more talent than Detroit, and yet Mark Jackson is giving significant minutes to all three of his rookies — Barnes, Ezeli and Green. They are all developing in meaningful minutes AND the team is playing competitive, good basketball, imagine that.

      Meanwhile Detroit is letting several young players rot on the bench while Corey Maggette and Charlie Villanueva occupy rotation spots. Oh, and they’re not even playing competitive ball with those veterans playing. So yeah, I’d say Golden State is further along in understanding how to develop a young team.

      • Dec 5, 201211:38 pm
        by I HATE FRANK


        @Patrick… its because they were willing to lose with youth …Dumars, or Franks are not willing to lose with youth …. i said it from the start we are playing with no vision and no identity 

      • Dec 6, 201212:55 am
        by Pete


        I agree with Patrick. I just hope there is a legitimate reason for Franks playing Charlie, Maggette and even Maxiell like maybe showcasing for trades. Joe D cant be that delusional thinking that this team is going to make the playoffs. Can he?

      • Dec 6, 20128:23 am
        by ryan


        I strongly agree with this point. It’s become a Piston’s tradition to not develop young talent dating all the way back Rick Carlisle (who’s so much better than any coach we’ve had since).


      • Dec 6, 201211:53 am
        by tom


        Of course you realize Drummond plays more minutes than both Ezeli and Green and Singler plays almost the exact same minutes and Barnes. And of course Ezeli and Green played 4 years of college ball and Barnes played 2 while Drummond played but one.

        • Dec 6, 201212:41 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          Of course you realize that Drummond is putting up rookie of the year numbers in his limited minutes while Green is a role player who was a second round pick and Ezeli is a project big with very little basketball experience, right? Those guys should be getting limited minutes. Someone as productive as Drummond should not be. He’s been one of Detroit’s best players this season.

          Also, how many minutes are English and Middleton getting for the Pistons? 

  • Dec 5, 201210:57 pm
    by Mark


    This is a lousy comparison in terms of rebuilds. Mainly because they had an All-Star caliber veteran big man already in place to build around in Lee. That makes a huge difference in terms of getting wins. Curry is also a year more exp than Monroe.

    In other words, they are further along in their rebuild than we are, imo. Besides, wait until they finish their 7 game road trip to make judgements. We already played ours, which is a big part of our record being worse right now. Give it time and I don’t think you’ll see this GS team is much better than us. We pretty much played them even if you look at the box score by qtrs. A few pts here and there each qtr in their favor was the difference this game. These teams are closer than you think, imo.


    • Dec 5, 201211:01 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Oh, you mean Lee, the guy Dumars could’ve pursued with the money he paid to Villanueva and Gordon? That David Lee?

      • Dec 5, 201211:34 pm
        by Mark


        David Lee was not worth a max deal. You can win reg season games with him. You can’t win championships though with a David Lee type big man. That should be what matters most in comparing rebuilds. Which team is better set up to win championships 5 yrs from now. I can’t see how this GS team ever wins a championship. Especially since David Lee will be retired by then and they have no young talent up front.

        GS made a point to try and win now, as evident by investing a ton in 2 veteran big men. The Pistons are not invested in winning now. Thats why one team is more successful in the reg season right now than the other. 

        I’ll take Monroe/Drummond over Curry/Thompson all day in terms of a young duo to build around. You win championships in the paint, not on the perimeter.

        • Dec 5, 201211:59 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          “David Lee was not worth a max deal.”

          I agree. But if the alternative was paying Gordon/Villanueva a combined nearly $20 million per, I’d take Lee on a max deal over that.

          “Which team is better set up to win championships 5 yrs from now.”

          Well, I would argue that GS is closer in that their star, Steph Curry, has signed an extension. The Pistons have to get that done with Monroe still. It will likely take a max deal to do it, so I’m not assuming that’s going to be an easy negotiation for Detroit.

          “I can’t see how this GS team ever wins a championship.”

          No team should go into a rebuild saying, ‘how do we win a championship?’ Sure, championships are great. But they require a lot of factors beyond your control to go right — health, development of young players, etc. Do I see this GS team winning a title? No. But are they in a position to be really competitive as long as Curry stays healthy? Absolutely. 

          “GS made a point to try and win now, as evident by investing a ton in 2 veteran big men. The Pistons are not invested in winning now. Thats why one team is more successful in the reg season right now than the other.”

          OK, then riddle me this … if GS is trying to win now, why are the Warriors also committed to giving significant minutes to three rookies on their roster while the Pistons, who are certainly not in ‘win now’ mode, are burying several young players in favor of limited or downright awful veterans?

          “I’ll take Monroe/Drummond over Curry/Thompson all day in terms of a young duo to build around. You win championships in the paint, not on the perimeter.”

          The point in Dan’s comparison is not an either or proposition. It’s simply pointing out that one team has done a better job turning itself from a bad team to a competitive one than the other. Golden State has obviously hired a coach who knows what he’s doing (to everyone’s surprise), Golden State has aggressively made personnel moves to improve its roster (to limited success, since the Bogut trade has yet to pan out), Golden State picked up an extra first round pick for simply flipping Stephen Jackson for Richard Jefferson, Golden State has both been competitive AND committed minutes to developing young players.

          It is not about what roster would you rather have. It is about what organization right now has a better understanding of how to take a bad team and make it competitive again. The answer over the last couple seasons has easily been Golden State. That doesn’t mean their young talent is superior. It just means their front office and coaching staff are doing a better job than Detroit’s. 

          • Dec 6, 201212:03 am
            by Desolation Row

            You beat me by 2 minutes… d’oh!

          • Dec 6, 201212:07 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            Haha, well your comment was much more articulate than mine.

        • Dec 6, 201212:01 am
          by Desolation Row


          1) I would have paid David Lee $20 million/year over signing CV/BG to the same amount on a combined per year basis, which they were. You may not win a championship with David Lee as your primary big man without support, but you can certainly build a champion progressing with a player like David Lee. Say what you want, Dumars botched that by passing on him and going after CV/BG — I don’t care what else you want to bring into your argument, Patrick is arguing about the summer of 2009 and nothing else. And he’s right.

          2) “I can’t see how this GS team ever wins a championship.” Well sir (or madam), let me help you out with that. Personally living in SF, I can say there are two things you need to understand the Bay Area has that few other markets do: a rabid fan base (see: 2007 GS v. Dallas) and a stupid amount of wealth (see: Warriors’ upcoming move from Oakland to San Francisco). The latter will happen in a timeframe that fits nicely with Curry’s development. Once the money pours in, and considering the $$ of the tech industry combined with how the Warriors were willing to alienate so many loyal East Bay fans to make it happen, you have to believe there is an exorbitant amount of revenue about to come in and this will likely become a team that isn’t worried about the luxury tax. Add to that the idea of living in a city like San Francisco, and the Warriors will be an attractive destination for FA’s to come if they continue to progress. David Lee may not be around until the end, but he’ll factor in heavily to building up a champion similar to Cliff Robinson for the 2002 Pistons. 

          3) I don’t think David Lee or Andrew Bogut are as old as you think they are.

          4) The sad thing is, the Pistons are invested in winning now. Why the f*ck else would they be playing their veterans????? If they aren’t, they must be in suicide mode — both lose games and don’t develop young talent. GS made a point to tank last year by trading Monta Ellis, landing Andrew Bogut for the following year (oh, hey, A PLAN!!!) and get their draft pick back from Utah to continue building. Say what you want about their plan and how their fans boo’ed ownership after the aforementioned trade, at least there is some semblance of a vision.

  • Dec 5, 201210:59 pm
    by Brigs


    i have been thinking the same thing about these little runs the pistons go on , they don’t count for anything in the long run since we haven’t had winning season in a while and all it does is lower the pick in the draft. With that bein said I think Joe D has to see what Brandon knight could net us back in a trade because like you’ve been sayin stuckey is our best pg and i hate to say it but doesn’t look like bk7 is gonna be any better then stuckey if we can get an ok player plus a draft pick then it opens the door to countless other trades were we could get an impact player then we can stop celebrating these little runs and start lookin forward to some playoff runs

  • Dec 5, 201211:10 pm
    by Trysdor


    I honestly don’t know why people are upset about the Pistons sucking.  They’ve sucked for years now, and realistically, we knew they’d suck this year anyways, but this is the best I’ve felt about them since the dynasty days. We have a potential legitimately elite player for the first time in what? 18 years? How awesome is that?  That makes everything better in my book. 

  • Dec 5, 201211:10 pm
    by domnick


    now, i started to think that we shouldve drafted kemba walker instead of brandon knight…

    i believe we can beat the GSW.. we just didnt do it right… 3rd quarter has been bad… 4th quarter is mix of good and bad.. bad for brandon knight because of turnovers.. missed shots…

    i hope we can beat the bulls since they got weak lineup right now.. but playing hard under great coach Thibs

  • Dec 5, 201211:16 pm
    by Vince


    Knight played the worst I’ve ever seen him play, Singler actually played like a Rook today, Greg got dominated, Maxiell was reduced to a non factor, Prince played well but it was too little too late, Maggette, I want to like him, but he is entirely disappointing at this stage, Villanueva, it actually hurts me to say he was the second best forward  and third best player on the Pistons tonight, Stuck, same as Prince, too little too late.

    Which leaves Drummond, who killed it, if he doesn’t start next game I’m not watching this team until he does.

    Three players I think could’ve helped tonight were glued to the bench and the inactive list. JJ’s hustle was needed tonight, English’s scrappy perimeter D and three point range was needed tonight, another defensive presence in Kravtsov was needed to accompany Dre down low tonight. A coach with good situational awareness was needed tonight.

    I am sick and tired of losing winnable games.

    • Dec 5, 201211:18 pm
      by Vince


      My grades for tonight

      Monroe – F
      Maxiell – Z
      Prince – B
      Singler – D+
      Knight – Z 

      Drummond – A++
      Maggette – D-
      Villanueva – B
      Stuckey – B-

    • Dec 6, 20127:59 am
      by Vic


      All Agreed!

  • Dec 5, 201211:21 pm
    by Lake Side Live


    Still don’t know about Brandon Knight, let him play out and hope he follows the Mike Conley career arc? tell him to be a pure shooter? 6th man?

      I know his percentages fluctuate game by game but it seems like if things were simplier for him, focusing on one thing/catch and shoot, no step dribble then shoot/” he could be of value to us.  It’s probably a bad analogy but I think of Jim Harbaugh and Alex Smith, Harbaugh simplified Smith’s responsibilities and he improved, according to the popular version.

    I worry about a trade because the aaron afflalo thing gets stuck in my head, i know it’s illogical. 

    • Dec 6, 20124:31 am
      by frankie d


      conley’s fortunes as a point guard started turning around once lionel hollins settled in as the memphis coach and started molding him.
      hollins is a no-nonsense guy who won a title with bill walton and maurice lucas and  portland back in the day.  an extremely underrated guard, he was a joe dumars-type with a bit more of a point guard orientation.  he was tough, physical and took no guff from anyone.
      you can see hollins’ influence on conley as he develops into a first-rate guard.
      it simply has not happened because he has been in the league for a number of years.
      it is the result of good coaching by a guy -hollins – who knows the point guard position.
      when people make the comparison between conley and knight, they leave out that little coaching detail.
      i don’t see that same relationship between knight and frank.
      maybe there is something there that is not readily apparent, but that absent connection – like the one  larry brown also had with chauncey – would be crucial for knight’s development, imho.  hopefully, the team will bring someone in to work with him.

      • Dec 6, 20128:02 am
        by Vic


        Agreed. Knight needs a better head coach , or an assistant better suitedtried mold him.

        • Dec 6, 20128:05 am
          by Vic


          Dee brown is known more for a dunk 

          • Dec 6, 201212:03 pm
            by frankie d

            dee brown was a very bad point guard.
            he was the classic shooting guard in a point guard body, a guy with incredible hops and athleticism.
            but he never got it, as far as playing the point is concerned.   
            if the team’s idea is that dee brown is the appropriate mentor for knight – which is apparently the case – it is no wonder that knight is foundering.
            that would be like bringing titus young in as a receivers’ coach for a young and developing corps of wide receivers. 

    • Dec 6, 20126:19 pm
      by Lake Side Live


      Thanks to Frankie D and Vic for giving some info on Dee Brown, ashamed to say it but for my love of the pistons don’t know much about their assistant coaches, your comments give me some new perspective, once again thanks.

  • Dec 5, 201211:26 pm
    by shawn brown


    look i know this loss was frustrating but the pistons are getting better. everyone keeps talking about the playoffs but the truth is they are maybe one more impact player away from that goal.
           its too early to tell what BK  is going to be..surely everyone isnt giving up on him already. 
         he looks better this year then he did last year and right now that counts for something. this team is not a finished product by any means but they are showing improvement.  and lets not forget about a few things that stalled the pistons progress relative to other rebuilding teams..the death of mr. davidson and the sale of the team. no this doesnt give joe d. a pass but those things hamstrung this franchise.   and for all those who say this team needs a star well denver had a star and cleveland had a star and look at how that turned for those franchises.  the point im trying to make is that having a star is not a surefire lock for a franchise to have long term success. in todays NBA most stars bolt after 5 years anyhow. 

    • Dec 6, 20122:07 am
      by sb3


      And he’s playing hurt. Remember when everyone was making a big deal about Stuckey playing through the migraines and giving him the benefit of the doubt because he’s “not 100%”? Knight could barely turn the corner and couldn’t turn on the jets in anything other than a straight line. That’s half of his strength. When he can’t drive, he can only rely on his jumper on which he has no lift. Doesn’t excuse the bad TOs, but the open shots he should take. Who else would’ve taken them? 20% from distance Rodney? It’s easy to question because the shots didn’t go, but if they had, it’d all be different, right? People are too “what have you done for me lately?” sometimes; it’s not like he’s shooting 4% for the season or anything.

      Singler hasn’t been himself since Sideshow Bob poked him in the eye either. Maybe the lack of shooters hurts? It wasn’t too long ago Stuckey was starting and our offense looked like crap because no one could hit from distance. Take away Kyle’s shooting and you get the same thing.

  • Dec 5, 201211:33 pm
    by Shaun



    • Dec 5, 201211:37 pm
      by Shaun



      • Dec 6, 201212:40 am
        by dtmfr


        You’re a very generous grader Shaun. Dan and Patrick continue try to beat their readers to death with incredibly flawed arguments, or should I say faux? lol.

        • Dec 6, 201212:58 am
          by Patrick Hayes


          Interesting how you never actually engage with the arguments and instead just post off-topic rants.

  • Dec 5, 201211:40 pm


    Me – A++


  • Dec 5, 201211:41 pm


    Me – A++

    for not blaming frank for this loss


  • Dec 6, 201212:01 am
    by Pimp Zombie


    I love my pistons, but we tend to view players with rose colored glasses until they get exposed as the bums they are.
    That said, I hope the Pistons are prepared to sell while BK’s stock is relatively high. He reminds me of Jerryd Bayless, except Bayless is a much better player and isn’t trying to kid himself with this ‘masquerading as a pointguard’ nonsense. If you wanna see what a scoring PG looks like (a scoring PG is what BK is supposed to be, right?) look no further than Mr Stephen Curry.

    Bk’s a nice kid, but a B.U.M…….he needs to be a scoring guard off someone’s bench. Watching him ‘create’ for others is like watch Tim Tebow dropback and attempt a fade route……comical. Some fair-shooting 20 pts every few gms (usually losses) does not equate to a good player with potential, in my mind. 

    • Dec 6, 201212:07 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      Oh man, you just ruined my night with that Bayless comparison. I certainly hope his ceiling is higher, but you’re right … stylistically, they’re the same guy.

    • Dec 6, 20121:36 pm
      by I HATE FRANK


      Im not saying Knight is better than Curry or will become better than Curry…

      but curry has been able to play a system that has fit his style of play….

      He has played in a uptempo offense, with Athletic players for the 4 years of his career…

      Shoot attempts…minutes played….style of play….all works for Curry Advantage from the start…

      I still feel like if you want to play a half-court, slow down offense, we should NOT have drafted Knight… we should have draft a shooter….

      Knight is a scoring PG… who isnt given the chance to do what he does best

  • Dec 6, 201212:05 am
    by Paul


    I think there’s a little overreaction tonight.  Singler had a bad shooting night, and that will happen with any player from time to time.  BK was just terrible, but he did seem to be laboring physically tonight.  The biggest problem I had with this game was the very poor defense on GS’s two hot shooting guards in the 3rd.  Sadly, this seems to happen all too often with this team.  Seems like most every game there’s period where you’re wondering how can they keep leaving (fill in the blank) wide open like this?
    GS has made some good picks, and the ones that didn’t fit they’ve moved on out.  I can’t get that worked up about it yet as the Pistons are still trying to overcome the inertia of the Karen Davidson cashing out period.
    I’m just happy that Drummond is a Piston.  A month into the season and I don’t think there’s any doubt that if the draft were redone today there is no way he’d be available at pick 9.  I’ve already had a ton of fun watching his early development, and he’s only going to get better.  Some folks keep saying that he needs to be protected by playing him against second stringers, but he’s played against some pretty good players and he doesn’t look over matched or scared.  Sure, keep in mind his age and don’t run him into the ground, but he has clearly earned more minutes.  Go Pistons!

    • Dec 6, 201212:40 am
      by Desolation Row


      Agreed on that last point. The only good thing about how much we sit Drummond is that I can sit down and be physically comfortable while watching the game. I get so excited and always pace around watching the guy, imagining his ceiling. There really is no way we should have landed him at #9, and for that we are so lucky as fans.

      Davidson cashing out definitely set us back. Still doesn’t excuse Dumarsageddon (summer of ’09) when we signed CV/BG and traded Afflalo for– I can’t even finish. Not to mention how the Pistons play Maggette, Prince, and Maxiell so much while sitting JJ and English, while not playing Drummond the minutes even a lesser player should be getting. 

  • Dec 6, 201212:15 am
    by Delray313


    This game was poorly coached the line ups made no sense and im starting to see moose lose intrest singler is getting killed on the defensive end. Cv did what he does best score some buckets, i cant see frank coaching here much longer man he has lost this team. This was drummond best game he was under control he rebounded scored and block some shots. FRANK JUST QUIT I DONT SEE US GOING FAR WITH YOU.

    • Dec 6, 201212:34 am
      by Desolation Row


      Who would you realistically hire in his place? 

  • Dec 6, 201212:42 am
    by dtmfr


    Singler and Knight were no-shows.  That’s the story tonight.

  • Dec 6, 20121:15 am
    by Lake Side Live


    I think Monroe is suffering from being the known focal point on offense, with our guard play there is no one to space the floor allowing opposing defenses to collapse on moose.   He has really no outlet to go to if he’s being contested, so he has to go for it himself because his shot has a better chance than any of our poor mid range shooters.

    Faced with this reality he should take a lesson from David Lee’s handbook making determined post moves quickly as Kelser pointed out.  Of course Lee has 5 yrs on greg.  

  • Dec 6, 20122:30 am
    by piston moribund


    What???What did you say?????The pistons suck?????Please say it ain’t so?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?Being worse then the worst run franchise in basketball is a fat worse then death.  Go Bullets!!!!!!!!!

  • Dec 6, 20128:30 am
    by Vic


    I agree somewhat, but I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. We’re both rebuilding teams, just rebuilding from different directions. 
    The Pistons are rebuilding from the bottom – with Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond.
    The Warriors are rebuilding from the top with Mark Jackson,  Steph Curry,  K Thompson.

    they are definitely further along because they picked David Lee instead of CV and Ben Gordon.

    Stefan Curry is a real point guard, but the Postons depend on Prince to control the flow of the game. 

    If we draft Michael carter Williams, Marcus smart or trey Burke, and get Bill Laimbeer as a coach- we’ll be further along than Golden State.

    And I agree Greg needs to play more decisively and get more confidence in his jumpshot. 

    • Dec 6, 20129:10 am
      by I HATE FRANK


      I dont put too much into last night…

      Curry has been playing great basketball recently, but overall Klay Thompson has been or below average.  Before last night game he was shooting under 39% from the field, 33% for 3′s…

      last night in the 3rd qrt he got hot, 5-7 for 3′s and 19 pts total in one qrt…. that happens in the NBA… thats why I didnt blame Frankie at all, not matter how we threw at him last night it would not have mattered….

      The real difference in last night game was this…. Curry was 2-6 shooting, only had 3 assist….(I think he even missed 4-5 shoots in a row before the half) Mark Jackson tells him to stay aggressive!, and keep looking for your shot… Curry comes out aggressive and attacking and we know the rest of the story…


      But Knight doesnt have a coach that going say we trust you to either win or lose this game…

      Once again, that 3rd qrt changed the game, we played better than warriors for most of that game, even had a chance late tie it after being down 19pts… Frank Coached a decent game…(mostly on the back of Prince, and Drummond)

      But all im saying is Mark Jackson believes in this players first, rather than “THE PROCESS”

      • Dec 6, 20129:45 am
        by Vic


        Agreed, because he’s a good decision making coach, not a good teacher who coaches when the players allow him to.

        • Dec 6, 201210:48 am
          by I HATE FRANK


          I feel Like Frank Lacks common sense….

          I might sound like a hyprcrit just a little but….

          First i think Knight is going to be a good NBA player…i really do..his development is like jru Holiday ( just without the coaching)…but its going to happen for knight eventually…

          But for whatever reason, he just wasnt engaged in that game last night, we have seen Knight play better defense against more explosive player in the past… Lillard, Westbrook, rondo All more explosive that Curry and Knight defensively has held his own….

          But Offensively and defensively he was terrible….

          Franks put him back into the game after he sat for almost 1 1/2 qrts …. he did make one three pointer but that was it…

          Even the play ran on the inbound pass he was wide open, and i never believed he was going to make that shot….

          We had the offensive rebound, and he goes into his hand,and he passes it back into a crowd of players….

          Mentally night was not in that game…maybe something personal, maybe the injury… but as a coach you have options… if Knight is struggling and Singler is Struggling …Im going with Singler to take the big 3 late…. A cold Knight or a cold English…im going with English…

          NOW!!!! if Frank TRUSTED Knight to win or lose that game…then I’ll pat Frank on his back say that a moment that builds trust between a player and a coach which can be priceless …but if he thought knight was right player for that situation…then its a lack of common sense

  • Dec 6, 20128:44 am



    About: Greg Monroe

    Last year I was waving the Greg Monroe banner!, Calling him on of the most underrated F/C in the league, I even had the nerve to say he should have got some serious all-star consideration, when injuries open up another roster spot, I was also very vocal about him not making to the select time. I felt like if he was on any other team he would get more praise.

    But Lately, I get it now. Monroe is good no doubt, but not dominate. He is a good offensive player, but not dominate. He is a good rebounder but not dominate and defense is a challenge for him because of his lack of consistency.

    We can say Knight will be an average PG and thats fine, but Monroe can not just be average, for us to win, especially games like last night.

    If Prince has to carry us on offense, then as a team we have taken a huge step back. In 4 of the last 5 games Monroe has scored less than 10 pts… That’s Just not acceptable, especially in winnable games.

    Teams are daring him to take that 15 footer and when he doesn’t not take that shot, he is taking himself out of the offense. Monroe turnover are also stacking up, because in the post he’s not making one decisive quick move, he bring the ball low, pump faking and spinning, sometimes just to throw up an awkward or to get it stripped. He might get one dribble drive per-game, but then the coaches will tell the defender, give him the jumper. Which he will not take even often enough to be respected.

    Now we can look at this in a few ways….

    We can say that he is completely too unselfish offensively, We can say that he has just been off lately, We can say that his transition into being the Go-to-Guy has not been a smooth one. Maybe our expectations for Greg was too high, Maybe he is just another solid piece, rather than a cornerstone, Maybe mentally Greg needs a defined position.

    Either way, He is much better than how we’ve seen him play lately, but I believe in my heart that this is a just a slump and we will soon see the same guy that many of us believe could become a perennial All-Star starting this year.   

    • Dec 6, 201211:26 am
      by Crispus


      I think so many of us are looking forward to his offensive interplay with Drummond – a guy who can punish any double teaming on Greg. With those two pieces and Singler and Knight able to shoot the three we could ideally make some sweet offensive music. 

      • Dec 6, 201211:42 am
        by I HATE FRANK


        I wrote my apologizes to maxiell…thanking him for all he has done…

        But its time for maxiell to be the spark player off the bench he is meant to be….

        Monroe its his time to move to PF….

        Its time to start Drummond… but its not do to a lack of readiness….

  • Dec 6, 20129:15 am
    by Vic


    I will say one good thing about Frank. And the first two minutes of the game I know we would lose horribly if Drummond didn’t play 30 minutes, and I doubted he would play over 30 minutes, maybe 20.  So he ended up playing 31 minutes, kudos to the coach. And they stayed in the game.

    but David Lee has been having his way with the Pistons for years. I took my wife to a game a few years ago she doesn’t know anything about basketball, she said “who is that alpha male and why is he doing whatever he wants to them?” so that’s David Lees nickname “Alpha Male” it was funny to see him go to work and crack jokes on the Pistons once again 

  • Dec 6, 20129:37 am
    by Michelob Mike


    I think at this point, I want to see Drummond start moreso to see Moose at the four-spot. He’s been struggling at the five as of late.
    And yeah, Knight was obviously hurt and shouldn’t have been out there.

    • Dec 6, 20129:47 am
      by Vic


      I sure hope he was. If he’s hurt, sit him, Start Stuckey.

  • Dec 6, 201210:01 am
    by Edgar


    I don’t think we should give Frank credit when he gives Drummond extended minutes. It just seems like a pretty obvious thing to do considering how consistently impactful Drummond has been. It’s like giving Frank credit for putting five players on the court. I’m hoping Dan or Patrick dissect the stuff Frank said about being loyal to winning games as opposed to an individual player. I think that’s just simplistic, Manichean nonsense. Ask Popovich how loyal he was to winning that game against the Heat. As head coach you’re supposed to have loyalty to the franchise and to the season overall. Given how important Drummond is to the franchise long-term, last night was a good result. It’s better for Drummond to have the type of game he did last night and lose, than for Drummond to play 12 minutes and win.

  • Dec 6, 201210:30 am
    by Rodman4Life


    I sure hope Knight’s game last night was an “off” night.  And if he is a smart, hard-working young man, I expect a bounce-back effort Friday with smarter outcomes (aka, less turnovers).  But last night was the perfect opportunity for Frank to work back in a couple of players like Jerebko and English.  Guys that hit back with effort when they take a proverbial “shot to the chin.”  Maybe I really don’t know English that well, but I have a feeling that if Klay Thompson hit one of those open threes, Kim would have stuck to him like glue for the rest of his time on the floor.  WIDE open threes from a good shooter who’s on, bug the living $#*& out of me!!!
    And further, Golden State doesn’t have a rim presence with Bogut out.  Why the hell weren’t Stuckey and Maggette and even Bynum not in the pounding the paint with drives, etc?  And why wasn’t Monroe on the block screaming for the ball??  David Lee bangs, but don’t tell me bigger/taller players can’t shoot right over the top of him.  I don’t get it, and that’s why I have to knock Frank on this one, big time.  Why do we think that Drummond had a good game (dominant), size means everything in a mismatch.

  • Dec 6, 201210:49 am
    by bugsygod


    Its amazing to me that the people that run this “pistons” blog site seem to have NO knowledge of the Pistons or NBA history.  So you say that golden state is now a good team??  ok few years ago w/ baron davis they were a “good” team.  Cant we just say they have better guards then detroit? They drafted udoh ahead of monroe 3yrs ago, then traded him w/ ellis for a broken down bogut, who had microfracture surgey and probably wont play this year.  Golden State is a ”good” team?  THey wont make the playoffs in the west but they are a “good” team.  I mean they are ahead of the lakers right now.  There are over 60games left in the season, but Golden state is a good team??  STUPID!  The pistons had down times before they got isiah, then added players and won 2 championships, they went down again w/ the grant hill teal era, they traded for ben wallace, signed billups, traded for hamilton & wallace, drafted tayshaun and won ANOTHER title.  They got old and have been bad the last few years.  The pistons have drafted, greg monroe, drummond, sinlger and all are considered great picks.  Knight and stuckey i think are productive nba players.  Knight is 21 and Curry is 24 in his 4th yr in the league so can we give knight a chance to get better??   I mean curry is no all star and has been consitently questioned about his health.  When in the last 30 years has golden state been a team you feared??  when have they won titles??  So to compare the Detroit Pistons to Golden State, a team that has been a joke for 30yrs is just Dumb. 
    no regarding this particular game, curry & thompson were on fire and look like a really good guard combo and i would trade our guards for them in a heartbeat.  HOWEVER, there frontcourt is a mess, barnes motor is being questioned, just like it was before the draft and there bench is a mediocre at best.  I dont think after EVERY game we have to have a refrendum on the pistons past mistakes(suprised Dan Feldman or Patrick Hayes didnt mention Darko in this post).  We all know CV & BG were mistakes and pretty much anyone with ANY nba sense knows David Lee is NO MAX PLAYER.  So to say pistons cv/bg mistake was bigger than lee mistake is kinda stupid.  “haha your dumb move was worse than my dumb move”.   The pistons have some really good young players.  I would take our future ahead of the warriors anyday. 
    To say we cant celebrate a 5 game home winning streak?   I mean this was not from pistons ppl, nbatv said the same thing as did espn.  If we can show we can hold our home, then the next step is winning on the road, which is the key to being a playoff team.  Pistonspowered is ALWAYS complaining about anything the team does that does not involve the team….”gores doesnt spend money”, “who cares about the half time shows”, “they are cutting staff and not replacing ppl”, “they need more advanced stats guys”, “stupid to celebrate a 5 game home winning streak because it was against bad nba teams”. <—-STupid!  So if we dont beat them teams, you complain, we do beat the bad teams you complain..smh!  
    Again the warriors had a great night and shot the ball well.  Singler/Knight had bad games.  Monroe was in foul trouble(even thought some of those calls were weak).  Pistons are 6-6 in last 12…OOOPS!  I probably shouldnt be celebrating that, becasue it means nothing after losing to the warriors. 
    s/n….i will bet a $1000.00 that the warriors do not make the playoffs, bogut will not play this year, they will be in the lottery again drafting for a big man.  

    • Dec 6, 201212:36 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Thanks Bugsy. It has been too long since we’ve done this. This will be therapeutic for me.

      “Its amazing to me that the people that run this “pistons” blog site seem to have NO knowledge of the Pistons or NBA history.”

      You know what’s amazing to me? Is that you, consistently one of the least informed and least insightful commenters on this site, would accuse anyone of lacking knowledge on anything.

      “So you say that golden state is now a good team?”

      Through about a quarter of the season, they are 11-7 (which means they are winning more than 60 percent of their games). They have wins over the Clippers, Atlanta, Brooklyn and Denver, all playoff teams, mixed in there. They are doing this while arguably their second best player, Bogut, hasn’t played at all, two of their veteran SFs, Jefferson and Rush, have been injured, and one of their key young players, Klay Thompson, has struggled. They have done that while playing three rookies, including a big man who is more of a raw project than Drummond was considered and far less talented than him, significant minutes.

      So yes, that qualifies them as a ‘good’ team right now. A title contender? Absolutely not. A playoff contender? Definitely.

      And anyway, the point of Dan’s post wasn’t that Golden State had the better roster long-term. It was that Golden State has figured out how to be on track to being good again after years of being bad much faster than Detroit has. They made a better big money signing than Detroit (Lee was expensive, but a better investment than Gordon, Villanueva or Hamilton). They struck out on a draft pick (Udoh) but nailed others — Curry and Thompson, plus Green in the second round this year and Barnes has had some great moments. They hired a coach who committed to playing and developing their young players. And, what do you know, they’re a lot closer to being a competitive team again than Detroit is.

      The results speak for themselves man. There’s literally no argument you have against this, which is why you’re talking about straw men named Baron Davis for some reason.

      “THey wont make the playoffs in the west but they are a “good” team.”

      They’ve won 60 percent of their games roughly a quarter into the season. They are currently fifth in the West, 3.5 games behind Memphis for the best overall record in the league. Yeah, it’s early. But what have they done to show that they definitely will not make the playoffs, as you seem so adamant they won’t? You just wrote hundreds of words with literally no reasonable argument to defend this point. Well done, sir.

      “I mean they are ahead of the lakers right now.”

      No one said they are better than the Lakers. And they don’t have to be better than the Lakers to make the playoffs. The teams currently outside the top eight in the West right now are: Denver, Minnesota, Dallas, Portland, Phoenix, Sacramento and New Orleans. All Golden State has to do to make the playoffs is continue to be better than those teams. That’s not hard. The only real playoff threats in that group are Denver and maybe Minnesota if Rubio comes back healthy.

      “The pistons had down times before they got isiah, then added players and won 2 championships, they went down again w/ the grant hill teal era, they traded for ben wallace, signed billups, traded for hamilton & wallace, drafted tayshaun and won ANOTHER title.”

      The hell does that have to do with anything? So Jack McCloskey is going to come and draft the equivalent of Isiah Thomas and make the equivalent of the Laimbeer trade? The history of this franchise has literally NOTHING to do with the current state of the team. Nothing.

      You pointing out that you’ve followed the team for a long time proves nothing, other than you are old. So congratulations for being old and being the dumbest commenter on PistonPowered, I guess?

      “The pistons have drafted, greg monroe, drummond, sinlger and all are considered great picks.”

      Where does this post say they were not great picks? Again, what does this nonsense have to do with anything?

      “Knight and stuckey i think are productive nba players.”

      Stuckey has been an average NBA player production-wise for his entire career. I think it’s now safe to say we can call him what he is — an average NBA player.

      Knight has yet to even be an average starter for his position production-wise. It’s good that you think he will be, I guess, but the fact that you talk about it like it’s a given he will be is as annoying as … well … the rest of your poorly formed arguments. Yeah, Knight could turn into a productive NBA player. He could also be Jerryd Bayless, as another commenter pointed out below.

      “Knight is 21 and Curry is 24 in his 4th yr in the league so can we give knight a chance to get better?”

      Another bullshit, poorly researched argument. You do know that as a 21-year-old rookie, Curry was far better than Knight too, right? So isn’t it possible that Curry was just a better prospect all along? Shouldn’t we adjust expectations for Knight accordingly?

      I know that I’ve tried to envision, tried to find statistical matches, that show Knight could be on the path to stardom. I’ve tried a lot. Have you, on the other hand, ever done the converse? Have you ever considered that — gasp — Knight just might not be as good as you are giving him credit for? He seems like a nice, hard-working guy. I like that about him. But that doesn’t mean he’s destined for anything.

      “I mean curry is no all star and has been consitently questioned about his health.”
      It’s true. Health remains a big concern for Curry. But a healthy Curry this season is putting up 19 points, 4 rebounds, 7 assists and 2 steals per game while hitting 43 percent of his threes and 90 percent of his FTs. If he stays healthy, those, my friend, are all-star numbers.

      “When in the last 30 years has golden state been a team you feared?”

      I dunno. Spree seemed like a pretty scary dude. I have no idea what you mean by this or how it is relevant to any argument. The Warriors were poorly managed in the 80s, 90s and 00s, so this completely different regime with new ownership, a ton of resources, good young players and a great market to play in is going to be bad at building a team because their predecessors were?

      History is important, but it’s completely irrelevant to your bullshit argument here.

      “So to compare the Detroit Pistons to Golden State, a team that has been a joke for 30yrs is just Dumb. ”

      Well if you’re an expert on anything, it’s being dumb.

      How about comparing the franchises in a relevant way. Like, for example, how they started rebuilding at similar times and how one seems to be much further ahead of the other in that respect over that similar period of time.

      Seriously, I don’t understand why history matters here. Please explain. Why is it relevant today that some dude in the 80s thought Joe Barry Carroll was going to be awesome? It’s not. It’s just you being a dimwit.

      “I dont think after EVERY game we have to have a refrendum on the pistons past mistakes(suprised Dan Feldman or Patrick Hayes didnt mention Darko in this post).”

      Me, one game ago:

      The Pistons have a favorable, home-heavy schedule this month with several games against struggling teams. If the team remains focused on those two things — defense and taking care of the ball — the outlook for Detroit’s season outlook could be drastically more positive by the end of December.”

      Wow, that was quite the referendum. It’s important to provide analysis of positives and negatives of this team. But it’s also important to continuously point out that this organization has overseen a sloppy, clusterfuck of a rebuild that didn’t even need to be this sloppy. They made the path more difficult for themselves with stupid signings, stupid trades and a couple of botched draft picks (Daye and Summers and, some did argue — get your fainting couch ready — that Knight was a bad pick at the time). It is important to remember that, it is important not to always buy into the organizational spin machine that things are all going as planned. There should be little reason to have confidence in this front office and coaching staff right now. They have a lot to prove still.

      “So to say pistons cv/bg mistake was bigger than lee mistake is kinda stupid.”

      No, what you just said is stupid. Lee is an overpaid productive starter who has had a couple of seasons of near-All-Star level production. Gordon was an overpaid sixth man. Villanueva has been an overpaid useless player who, in most cases, does zero to help a team on the court. Overpaying a productive Lee is a much, much better alternative.

      “The pistons have some really good young players.  I would take our future ahead of the warriors anyday.”

      That is not the point of Dan’s post. It’s worthless to try and explain nuance to you, but here goes. The point of his post was to say that the Warriors are further along on the road to being competitive — the goal of any rebuilding team — than the Pistons. The Warriors have a legitimate shot at the playoffs this season. The Pistons do not. The Warriors are committed to playing their rookies and developing them. The Pistons are not. Those are the points of comparison — one team understands how to rebuild, understands that young players have to play consistent minutes and have defined roles to develop and that team also happens to be winning games while also developing players. Guess which team isn’t embracing that philosophy? It shouldn’t be hard, because you’ve been one of the many people rightfully bitching in the comments here about the lack of minutes for Pistons young players. That’s the point of the comparison, not to say “I’d rather have the Warriors roster or young players than Detroit’s.”

      “To say we cant celebrate a 5 game home winning streak?   I mean this was not from pistons ppl, nbatv said the same thing as did espn.”

      It’s fine that the media talk about it. The media have to find something to talk about, and thin on substance as it was, it was really the only thing going on out of the ordinary with the Pistons.

      It’s also loser talk. Yeah, it’s better than the alternative of losing those games to shit teams. But if it’s all the same, I’d prefer my team not spike the football, so to speak, about a bullshit accomplishment. Would the 04 Pistons have celebrated a five game home win streak over a collection of shit teams? If they wouldn’t have, why is it OK for this team to? You want to breed a culture with high expectations, don’t you?

      “Pistonspowered is ALWAYS complaining about anything the team does that does not involve the team….”gores doesnt spend money””

      Love your baseless accusations. You know that I went to the Palace, interviewed Mannion, took pictures and wrote three stories about their facility upgrades just a few weeks ago, right? Or did you miss that one?

      “who cares about the half time shows”

      This is true. If you go to a Pistons game just to see Vanilla Ice, you are dead to me.

      ““they are cutting staff and not replacing ppl”” 

      If I recall correctly, the post on this topic didn’t say they weren’t replacing someone, it simply asked the question — are they going to replace this position?

      If you know anything about the private equity business, one of the things PE firms sometimes do when they buy businesses is cut staffing. Since Gores made his fortune in PE, and since he had no record as Pistons owner to go on, it was reasonable to say, “hmm … I wonder if he’s going to go with a smaller staff.”

      And, since you left it out, when the Pistons did in fact fill the position, we posted that news.

      “they need more advanced stats guys”

      They did. And when they hired one, we posted on it.

      “stupid to celebrate a 5 game home winning streak because it was against bad nba teams”

      It was stupid. I wonder where your historical arguments are here? You feel OK with one of the most successful franchises in modern NBA history celebrating a five-game winning streak AT HOME over BAD teams like it was some sort of accomplishment? How do you think Isiah Thomas or Bill Laimbeer would’ve felt about that? High standards my man, high standards. Celebrating lame ass short home win streaks over lousy teams is the sort of thing perennial lottery teams do, not teams that have three championships.

      ““stupid to celebrate a 5 game home winning streak because it was against bad nba teams””

      I would absolutely complain if they lose to bad teams. I would not complain about beating them, I would expect that they should beat and take advantage of bad teams. I’m certainly not going to celebrate it though.

      “Pistons are 6-6 in last 12…OOOPS!  I probably shouldnt be celebrating that”

      Since when is a fucking .500 record worth celebrating? Your bar is so low dude. Also, they are 6-14 this season, so 6-6 in their last 12 is pretty irrelevant to me.

      “i will bet a $1000.00 that the warriors do not make the playoffs, bogut will not play this year”

      They might not make it, but Vegas doesn’t give them awful odds. Getting in is largely irrelevant though. they’ve still played a significant stretch of good basketball this season, got minutes for three rookies, saw the potential of a healthy Steph-Klay combo and, even if Bogut doesn’t get healthy, they have ownership that appears willing to spend a ton of money and a rabid fanbase. They have a lot going for them as an organization right now.

      • Dec 6, 20122:50 pm
        by MIKEYDE248


        Wow Patrick, you sould have just started a whole new topic on this one.

        • Dec 6, 20122:58 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          My apologies to you and the other readers here who have brains. This commenter always brings out the worst in me.

      • Dec 6, 20122:53 pm
        by bugsygod


        WHEN HAS GOLDEN STATE EVER BEEN GOOD?!?!?!?  lol.  crickets, crickets…..i will wait?  You say GS is rebuidling???  rebuilding from what? Oh you mean from the Baron davis era a few years ago what i was just talking about?  LOL!  smh.  sorry patrick, but you have know history of the pistons team.  Yes im old and the point is i have seen this rebuild before…..THREE TIMES!  So after 16 games the Warriors are good?  So i guess the Lakers are bad? You know because they have a poor record and have fired the coach already.  You cannot draw conclusions this early in the year….dummy patrick.  You consitetly try and bring up the bad trades, fa signings and drafts.  I never hear “that sheed trade was won of the greatest in team history”, that “billups signing was great”, “who knew that hamilton trade would work so well”.  If you bring up the past talk about the good and the bad.  If your talking the last 3 years, obvioulsy with the ownership sitautation for 2yrs dumars couldnt do anything.  You are almost like a woman in this aspect… give you a championship and you want two.  Buy you a new car and its the wrong color.  Now where im from you would be called a female dog and told to go sit with the other ladies and pee.  But i will be clean on your blog, but WOW you and dan have no respect for this Great Pistons Franchise.  You compared the Warriors to the Pistons….smh.  lil girls writing blogs about big boy sports.

        • Dec 6, 20122:56 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          If you’re too dumb to actually read what was written and respond, then just don’t comment. I thought about writing another point by point response to this stupid garbage you just posted here, but I’d rather you just fuck off.

          ‘lil girls writing about big boy sports’

          What a fucking joke you are.

          • Dec 6, 20123:08 pm
            by Bugsygod

            Sorry at work now. Will do point by point response later 

          • Dec 6, 20123:22 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            Bugs, is this an accurate summary of your point?  Because the Pistons have been better than the Warriors over the course of the last 30 years, it’s impossible for the Warriors to be good and the Pistons to be bad right now?

    • Dec 6, 20122:04 pm
      by dtmfr


      Excellent post bugsygod.  Dan and Patrick are just trolls.

    • Dec 6, 20122:55 pm
      by Crispus


      Harsh. I think bugsy’s comments are entertaining.

  • Dec 6, 201211:03 am
    by Big Rick


    I share a similar train of thought that “I HATE FRANK” has regarding Greg Monroe. I actually had the oportunity to meet the young man his rookie year in the Vegas Summer League. Should have never moved to Orando, thanks Frank. (sigh) He is a nice piece to have and I was voicing my opinion last year about him being more deserving of an All-Star berth than Roy Hibbert. But Greg’s lapses on defense is infuriating. He had a few stretches of games where he was actually challenging shots instead of moving out the way to avoid foul trouble. It was a rarity, but a welcome sight. That was short lived, because during the Memphis game he sorely got exposed on the defensive end. He ws constantly geting outmuscled on the block by Gasol, and several times I saw him try to flop trying to get the whistle instead of playing straight up defense, therefore taking himself out o the play or giving up an easier basket. It is what it is with Monroe though, he his more of a finesse player than a banger. He is still young enough to learn and he isn’t a finished product by far. But my evaluation of him before the season started was that I hoped he developed a mean streak and played with a chip on his shoulder. I didn’t agree at first but now it seems like a pretty fair comparsion maybe a ceiling for Greg, but my cousin compared his game to that of Brad Daugherty former Cavalier big man who was an adept passer and had a nice floor game.

  • Dec 6, 201211:08 am
    by MIKEYDE248


    I was afraid that it was going to be another 8 minutes played for Drummond again last night the way he played in the first half.

    It was great to see how well he played in the second half and even better to still see him in the game right to the end.  Thanks Frank.

  • Dec 6, 201211:30 am
    by Zekekhaseli


    Next game againts the Bulls Drummond will play less minutes. Wanna bet? Frank doesnt have the feel for the game. Hes good at x and os but no feel. Drummond and Monroe should be our starters from the beginning of the year

    • Dec 6, 201211:32 am
      by bugsygod


      Totally agree!  Drummond will get 15 mintues against the bulls.  They will go small and force us to play CV more…FRank

  • Dec 6, 201211:35 am
    by bugsygod


    “Just because you throw a guy out there for 30 minutes, that could be the worst thing you could do because it could reinforce all the bad habits,” Frank said. “If he’s not doing what he should be doing, how can you look at the guys in your locker room and say you’re about the right things? You can’t both develop players and try to win.”

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121206/SPORTS0102/212060395#ixzz2EI3sDPjz


    • Dec 6, 201211:51 am
      by I HATE FRANK


      “You can’t both develop players and try to win.”

      And thats the reason I HATE FRANK!!!!

      That also the lack of common sense I speak of… “How can you get excited about that as a fan?”

      Im sorry and dont feed me no BS about how they practice!….you can get 5 players from the D-League that are some of the best practice players in the worlds, but when you put them in the game, they wont produce the same way…..

      Drummond has gotten better and better…and the Trend is After Drummond has a great game, then the next 2 games his minutes are cut back… IT MAKES NO DAMN SENSE!!!!

      • Dec 6, 201212:36 pm
        by Corey


        I know Drummond makes mistakes, and he’s not yet someone you can run any offense through. However, I’m starting to think he’s ALREADY the Pistons best player. It’s obvious that playing him 25+ minutes a game makes them a better team.

        So to imply that they can’t play Drummond AND try to win games is… odd.

    • Dec 6, 201212:08 pm
      by Edgar


      Exactly! It’s like he doesn’t understand the concept of in-game teaching/player development. Or he understands the concept but doesn’t value it because it distracts him from trying to win the game in some weird way. Either way it’s just patently dumb. This is seriously one of the stupidest things I’ve heard a Pistons coach say in a long time. 

      • Dec 6, 201212:23 pm
        by I HATE FRANK


        And you wanna know why the Palace always looks like a ghost town?

        This has nothing to do with Maxiell as the player…but he has 13 total rebounds in the last two games ..

        Drummond also has 13 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS!!!!! in the last two games 24 total!!!

        For a coach that preaches defense and rebounding he is sure ass-backwards with his thinking…

        I love the energy Maxiell bring to a game, but he could produce those same numbers off the bench..

        I said it, and I will keep saying it… NO IDENTITY ….

      • Dec 6, 20126:11 pm
        by Big Rick


        Exactly! Just like I stated in a recent post, reminiscent of Rod Marinelli. Str8t buffoonery!

    • Dec 6, 201212:20 pm
      by MIKEYDE248


      If wiinning was so important, why is it that we have so few of them.  Drummond has shown that he is one of their best players in both limited extended minutes.  Just play the guy!!!

    • Dec 6, 20121:57 pm
      by frankie d


      thanks for the link.
      i only read the news or the freep when someone links to an article, so i would have missed the article, absent the heads up about it.
      a very good interview, because, for once, the local beat writers get beyond the typical coachspeak that usually gets trotted out in the local rags.
      frank’s statements are both extraordinary and extremely revealing.
      and they glaringly reveal his limitations as a coach, because many, many coaches both develop their young players and manage to put a competitive team – one that wins more than it loses – on the court.
      obviously, frank is not comfortable with the uncertaintly that young players inevitably bring to the court, and can only truly feel confident with vets who, while more limited as players, are at least predictable.
      for better or worse, you know exactly what tay and maggette and CV and maxiell are going to bring to the court every night.  and while any of those guys may have a brain cramp that costs the team dearly – see the last second, boneheaded error maxiell made a couple of weeks ago when he tried to creep up when the pistons were pressing and trapping full court and his inattentiveness allowed a player to get behind him for a easy bucket – most times, guys like that are depressingly predictable.  
      for better or worse.
      i have never been a frank fan, but i have to say that i at least applaud him for being honest about his view, in this regard.
      it does, however, cement this fan’s view that he really, truly is not the right coach for this team. 

  • Dec 6, 201212:40 pm
    by piston moribund


    In summary,
    1. Corey Maggette need to be glued to the bench in favor of Kim or anybody else with a future for this franchise.
    2. Trade Max.
    3. Start Dre. (Even G.B. alluded to that during the broadcast last night.  You know you are in trouble when you are being questioned by the ultimate piston fan)
    4. Get Joe D on a diet, tennis ain’t cutting it. The Lipitor is really starting to thin out his brain.
    ‘Its only when you have lost everything that you can have anything’-Chuck Palahniuk

  • Dec 6, 20121:12 pm


    “When you play 17 minutes, there’s no time to rest,” Frank said. “If you’re resting, rest when the other team is on the free throw line shooting the first shot. You have to play with unbridled energy, emotion and passion every single time you step on the floor.”

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121206/SPORTS0102/212060395#ixzz2EIInD6Hb

    Isnt that Jason Maxiell???

    • Dec 6, 20122:02 pm
      by frankie d


      i hate dogging maxiell because i like him as a player and think he is a very good nba rotation guy.
      that said, maxiell has always made plenty of mistakes, but he’s most times compensated for those errors by just busting his butt on the court.  but, in past years, his ability to bust his butt has been limited because he’s rarely been in very good shape.
      as he’s gained more experience – and as he has finally gotten into shape – his mistakes have happened less often, but just about every game, he still does something really boneheaded.  or his lack of stamina or conditioning becomes an issue.

  • Dec 6, 20121:20 pm


    “Unless you’re an organization that says, ‘All we’re doing is playing the young guys, it’s not about winning,’ then that’s one thing,” Frank said. “If your goal is to try to win, then your loyalty is to winning.

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121206/SPORTS0102/212060395#ixzz2EIT6PdAS

    Other than Prince all of the younger players are more talented and have played better than the VETS!

    and if the organization means (Dumars and Gore)…then Gore doesn’t count he is clueless, he is probably using the Pistons franchise to cover for his illegal muscle shirt and hair club for men underground business. I have been a huge fan of Joe Dumars he is my all-time favorite Piston, but if he thinks this is okay then he really does not care about the future of this franchise

  • Dec 6, 20121:33 pm
    by Mark V.


    I disagree when you said “The pistons haven’t made any progress.” That statement is completely false, if you compare last years stats on defense you’ll see that they’ve made huge strides. No one said that they’re gonna make the playoffs this year but to say no progress has been made is an overstatement. I for one like where this team is going, we got 2 legitimate big men manning the middle and in free agency we can sign a legitimate superstar because of the max contract we can offer so please stop with the no progress none sense.

    In addition, the reason why Drummond is not starting is because they made a point to start him off slowly and it’s working out so far. The kid is only 19 years, obviously gifted, but raw at this point of his career so fans have to be patient when it comes to seeing him start.

    Furthermore, hindsight is always 20/20 you can’t blame Dumars for signing Ben Gordon and Charlie V. Those guys, prior to signing with Detroit, were absolutely tearing it up. Did they overpay? Yes, I agree but signing them was not a mistake then. The only thing I blame Dumars for is letting Chauncey, the core leader of the team, go too early.

    • Dec 6, 20122:09 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      “That statement is completely false, if you compare last years stats on defense you’ll see that they’ve made huge strides”

      They’ve improved significantly in one category — opponent FG%. Other stats are about the same — defensive rating is slightly better, PPG per game is slightly worse. 

      Last year’s defensive rating: 106.3, 22nd in the league
      This year’s defensive rating: 105.1, 17th in the league

      Last year’s opponents PPG: 95.7, 14th
      This year’s: 96.3, 18th 

      Turnovers forced per game last year: 13.8, 16th in the league
      Turnovers forced this year: 13.3, 26th in the league 

      They haven’t even made ‘huge strides’ in blocking shots. They were 10th in the league last season at 5.3 per game, and they’re only at 5.6 per game this season despite Drummond’s obvious help in that department.

      So they’re making ‘huge strides’ in one category — FG% defense. That’s certainly nothing to turn your nose up, but it’s also not evidence that this is turning into some sort of lockdown defensive unit. They’re still overall bad defensively.

      And you’re arguments about Gordon/Villanueva are just flat-out too poor too touch. Plenty of people who paid attention to advanced stats knew that Gordon and Villanueva were bad signings at the time and wrote as much. There was significant evidence that their ‘counting stats’ were inflated and they had severe limitations as players. If trading Billups is the only thing you blame Dumars for, you haven’t been paying enough attention. 

    • Dec 6, 20126:28 pm
      by Big Rick


      I like the last poit you made about the BG and Charlie V. signings. My only gripe was that there wasn’t any reported attemt for us to go after David Lee. 
      Yeah, in hindsight Rip should have been the piece moved and Chauncey could have stayed on board to continue mentoring Stuckey and perhaps Knight.

  • Dec 6, 20122:01 pm
    by Vic


    This is my favorite quote from an Mlive article: ”We don’t get caught up into the numbers because there’s a whole lot more that goes into the game than just the numbers,” Frank said. 

    Someone please let him know that the game is decided by adding numbers together and seeing which team has more… 

    This is why I was so certain 8-10 games in that they were  tanking on purpose, this mentality absolutely makes no sense.

    If a guy can dominate both ends of the paint without giving 100%, you figure out how to get more out of him WHILE he helps you win, you don’t sit him on the bench for over half the game.

    • Dec 6, 20122:19 pm
      by Vic


      And if the only tools you have to motivate players is subtracting minutes or general “process requirements”, that shows we really need a coach with actual NBA playing experience. Maybe even championship experience. Maybe even Pistons experience…. Bill Laimbeer anyone?????????

      • Dec 6, 20122:24 pm
        by Vic


        I’mrealizing more and more why Tayshaun said we needed an experienced pg to help Knight out. He knew we needed someone to be the coach on the floor like jason kidd did with NJersey, Dallas, and now NYK.

        A true point guard is a valuable thing when your coach is inadequate to execute game winning decisions. 

        • Dec 6, 201210:53 pm
          by Crispus


          Yeah. imagine if we had Andre Miller, Derek Fisher or even (gasp) Mike Bibby instead of Will Bynum.

  • Dec 6, 20122:11 pm
    by frankie d


    “” Rookie point guard Damian Lillard … As one NBA scout recently said, “He’s only been in the league for a month but he’s already figured out how to control the game.”  On Monday night, he scored the Trail Blazers’ first bucket with a sneaky hesitation move, a baseline drive and then a beautiful reverse finish to elude Brendan Haywood. With his outside shot off the mark all night, Lillard continued to attack the rim both in the half court and in transition. It wasn’t Lillard’s finest night of the season, but he clearly can be entrusted with the controls in the cockpit.”
    in other words, lilliard plays smart.
    that is the thing that disappoints me about knight.
    just about every game, he does not one or two, but usually 3 or 4 totally boneheaded things that make you scratch your head.
    something that is either dumb or mind-numbingly dumb.
    every 7th game or so, he has a game where he looks as though he can be entrusted with the cockpit controls, but those games are so unusual they stand out.
    and i would never, at this point at least, ever argue that knight understands how to control games.
    it is telling that a rookie who has been in the league for a couple of dozen games already has a better grasp of playing the point than a supposedly smart player like knight. 

    • Dec 6, 20122:30 pm
      by Vic


      Many goodness you beat me to the comment I put right above yours. Game leadership is a skill that Dumars does not value, but it helps win gsmes especially when you have a coach that focuses more on systems and processes instead of executing game winning decisions.

      And Lillard proves that it doesnt have to be a veteran, its a mental skill to be able to score or distribute at will, and shift paces at will. We need Michael Carter Williams, marcus Smart, Trey Burke, or Nate Wolters. 

  • Dec 6, 20122:36 pm
    by piston moribund


    Acceptance is the first phase on the road to recovery.  What is the over/under on Joe D and Frank?

  • Dec 6, 20125:38 pm
    by Ed


    Knight will be a beast in this league as I recall Curry (a very similar player ) started out the same way he really is just now playing up to potential and was drafted in 09 he was inconsistant and people questioned if he was a bust or even a point guard that was Knights 83rd official game and lets not forget he’s getting coaching from Lawrence Frank -_-. So im pretty sure he will be fine.

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