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Jason Maxiell beasts, Greg Monroe bumbles and Andre Drummond does both in loss to Nuggets

Denver Nuggets 101 Final
Recap | Box Score
94 Detroit Pistons
Jason Maxiell, PF 32 MIN | 6-11 FG | 6-10 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 18 PTS | -7

Maxiell was all kind of active tonight. His seven blocks are a career high, and his 18 points are a season high. One word: Cha-ching!

Tayshaun Prince, SF 32 MIN | 4-9 FG | 0-0 FT | 6 REB | 2 AST | 8 PTS | -1

Prince has played 34, 34, 37 and 32 minutes in the last five nights. Tonight wasn’t his best, but he still turned in a solid performance. He’s a real professional on the court and hopefully a positive role model for Detroit’s younger players in that regard.

Kyle Singler, SF 28 MIN | 4-12 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 9 PTS | +3

Early in the third quarter, Singler air-balled a 3-pointer, missed a layup and nearly air-balled or air-balled another jumper. He was pulled just four minutes into the half. He returned in the fourth quarter and played a bit better, but he appeared gassed while playing his fourth game in five nights.

Greg Monroe, C 27 MIN | 1-9 FG | 4-6 FT | 12 REB | 3 AST | 6 PTS | +1

Let’s get the bad – 1-of-9 shooting, five turnovers and five fouls – out of the way. Monroe, to his credit, played hard despite struggling most of the night. He had a few nice passes and three steals and 12 rebounds because he kept working to contribute. That doesn’t excuse a very poor performance overall, but it mitigates it.

Brandon Knight, PG 38 MIN | 8-16 FG | 2-2 FT | 4 REB | 5 AST | 20 PTS | -3

Knight was fantastically active offensively tonight. He scored 20 points, and he could have had more if a couple good looks that barely missed had fallen. Knight worked well both with and without the ball to put himself in good scoring position. Five assists and one turnover is a nice line, but Knight had a couple bad passes that were deflected to Pistons – fortunate breaks tonight but a bit concerning. Still, everyone has those from time to time, so they should balance out. Allowing Ty Lawson to continuously drive past him also drops his grade.

Charlie Villanueva, PF 16 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 3 PTS | 0

Defense doesn’t come naturally to Villanueva, but he was really trying on that end tonight, and it’s appreciated. The Pistons’ other reserves were -6 or -8 tonight, but Villanueva’s plus-minus was even.

Corey Maggette, SF 16 MIN | 2-4 FG | 2-4 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 6 PTS | -6

Ho hum.

Andre Drummond, C 21 MIN | 3-4 FG | 1-2 FT | 11 REB | 0 AST | 7 PTS | -8

Andre Miller and JaVale McGee embarrassed Drummond on a couple alley-oops, and it’s clear Drummond must improve his defensive awareness. That said, he’s still remarkably effective. If he can get 11 rebounds, two steals and a block in 21 minutes tonight, imagine what he’ll do once he learns how to play.

Will Bynum, PG 2 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | -6

Bynum did nothing of note, but I just wanted to point out that he played for the first time in the last eight games. Maybe the Pistons’ guard just needed an extra couple minutes of rest, or maybe this is a sign that Bynum is on the verge of returning to the rotation.

Rodney Stuckey, PG 28 MIN | 5-12 FG | 5-5 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 17 PTS | -8

Stuckey – with five turnovers and six fouls – was a bit out of control tonight, but he scored all 17 of his points in the second half, when the Pistons struggled a bit. If Stuckey played this way for most teams, I’d call for the team to funnel its shots to more efficient players. I’m not sure the Pistons have such players, though.

Lawrence Frank, HEAD COACH

The Pistons built an big lead early based on their transition and semi-transition offense, but it’s not as simple as saying the Pistons should run more. They ran early because they played strong defense, and that led to open-court opportunities. As the defense faltered as the game continued, the offense slowed – and suffered – with it. That’s not exactly Frank’s fault, at least not directly. However, he did one thing that really bothered me. The Pistons trailed by eight with 45 seconds left and were very likely to lose no matter what strategy they took. But not fouling was a terrible decision. It was worsened when the Nuggets ran the shot clock down and made a basket, but if the Pistons had any chance of winning, they should have fouled immediately.

Most Valuable Player

Ty Lawson had 26 points, and when he scores in that range, it’s often due to hot 3-point shooting. But he shot just 1-of-2 on 3-pointers tonight and instead drove to the lane at will. As Detroit’s defense helplessly collapsed on him, Lawson also picked up seven assists and no turnovers.


Because you can’t have one without the other, Andre Miller’s alleys and JaVale McGee’s oops. The Pistons took an early 21-4 lead, but Miller had six assists in his first 15 minutes, the last three of which were to McGee. Together, they put the Nuggets’ offense on track.

Defining moment

The Nuggets led by just four with two minutes left when Danilo Gallinari received a ball screen. Jason Maxiell switched off Gallinari and Brandon Knight hedged for a moment, but Knight fell for a fake pass and left Gallinari wide open. Gallinari made the wide open 3-pointer, giving the Nuggets a 96-89 lead and plenty of cushion.


  • Dec 11, 201210:25 pm
    by Victor


    Just for the record, Brandon Knight is averaging in the past 4 games:

    23.5 ppg; 4 apg; 3.8rpg; 1.8 TO; 60% 3PT.

    Can he keep this?  

    • Dec 11, 201210:37 pm
      by I HATE FRANK


      60% for 3′s …NO 40% for 3′s yes…

      18-20ppg 4rebs 5ast … 43-44% from the field yes….But his minutes are up also and shots are up also (TO’s DOWN)

      Some guy on here said knight would be better wuth more minutes and shots… Cant remember his name tho…. Smiles@tarsier

      But defensively Knight and Stuckey need to pick it up, I would love to see Knight and Stuckey pressure the ball handler more….

      I believe they get lured to sleep when they play zone or soft man to man…  

      • Dec 11, 201211:37 pm
        by tarsier


        And this season, Knight is still shooting a higher percentage when attempting fewer shots. Like basically everyone ever. I don’t hold this against Knight, That’s just how it works. Four good games do not disprove this just as four bad games do not prove anything.

        Furthermore, I still maintain that for Knight, as for most players, his numbers will be better in games where he gets lots of burn. But not because that is more suited to the kind of player he is. Partly because more minutes is more time to put up numbers. Mostly because when he is playing well is when he will be allowed to spend more time on the court. 

        • Dec 12, 201212:24 am
          by I HATE FRANK


          @tarsier Remember my argument…. Knight numbers would pick up with more minutes, and shot attempts…I also said as he scores more his TOs would go down….

          Lastly, I work dealing with data, research, epidemiology ect …. Its all around trends, and marking or spotting a common trend or re-occurrence….. I’ll look at knight numbers in the morning …. But we will have to determine what do you call “fewer shot attempts”

          I said he should be getting 16 or more attempts every game and playing 35+ minutes every game (give or take based on the game situation) ….

          I said it a different mind set knowing you have the green light and you the freedom to play your game for 35-38 …. Vs 30-32 minutes … Knight you can argue off the top of the head without looking at stats has had maybe 3 poor games in the last 20 games …. His rebounds have leveled to around 4per game, assist has level to around 5per game, his steals are up, shooting percentage up….and scoring is up…. (Your comparison was jason terry when he was with atlanta) you said you’d be excited if he puts up those kind of number, and he has done that …. And I believe he can and will maintain it barring injury….does it make him a all-star? Nope, but it great for his confidence and the future of this team

          • Dec 12, 201211:45 am
            by I HATE FRANK



            @Tarsier …

            First I will say NO THIS IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE, The Research and time needed to really prove my point would take organizations like Synergy & Basketball data sites to truely go behind the numbers…. Thats the Disclaimer…

            Lets start with SHOOT ATTEMPTS ( once again not exact but we had to start somewhere)

            Knight has only had 5 games where he has had 15 or more attempts from the field…3 of those game most recently came in December…I decided on 15-16 shot attempts because most of the scoring PG/SG are averaging 15-16 shots per-game….

            However, in those 5 games Knight averaged 22.6ppg , 46.5% from the Field, 48% 3′s and 2 to’s PER GAME …..4ast

            Now if you look at the 4 games where Knight has attempted 16 or more shots…He is averaging 24.5ppg , 49% from the field , and 52% 3′s and 2 to’s …….. 4ast

            This shows Knights improvement since, last year as an EFFICIENT SCORER, When given the opportunity

            NOW MINUTES PER_GAME, I decided on 35 plus minutes Per-game…once again we could go back and forth, about whats the different because 35 minutes, and 34 minutes or 32 minutes…rotation, fouls, match-ups all factors, injuries, blowouts…I did not calculate ….

            However the Top scoring or assisting PGs average around 35 minutes or more…

            Knight has 10 games where he has played 35 or more minutes

            In those 10 games he has averaged

            18.0ppg 46% from the field, 44% for 3′s ( Numbers Well above his season average)

            4.6rebs , 5.4 ast 0.9stls (Well above his season average as expected when you play more)

            But also, his TURNOVERS ARE DOWN TO 2.6 ( so the arguement that if Knight played more minutes his turnovers will increase is not true)

            So once again, this is not an exact basketball data calculation…too many factors invovled that I just do not have at my finger tips…. But this should be very encouraging for any Pistons fan. It shows that when Knight is actually allowed to play his game, and he is given the minutes he produces at a high level.

            Also last year Knight had a total of 11 games where he scored 20 or more points
            This year he already has 8 games where he has scored 20 or more points…

            I await your replies….

          • Dec 12, 201211:55 am
            by tarsier

            I am excited about his playing the last 4 games. I need a larger sample size to believe he has turned some sort of corner. But yes, if his production stays at near that level, it would be phenomenal news for the Pistons going forward. But I usually think you need at least a 20 or so game sample size to consider stats very meaningful.

          • Dec 12, 201212:15 pm
            by tarsier

            A 15 shot attempt cutoff seems reasonable. I hesitate to draw conclusions, though, from 4-5 games (again, sample size). And to be fair, it would take a quite large sample for me to overturn my thoughts on this one (more than 20 games–so you can get annoyed with me if your perspective holds up for a while and I still don’t buy it) because there is so much former evidence that everyone’s percentages drop off with bulk scoring. Kinda like if a a player is shooting 42% from 2 and 44% from 3, I wouldn’t buy that they actually have a higher chance of hitting a shot if they shoot from further away. I will blame other factors because there are mountains of evidence suggesting that players shoot higher percentages from closer to the rim.

            The minutes thing is possible. I’ve never claimed otherwise (only that he had gotten, if anything, more minutes than he had proven he deserved as of yet) But I don’t know how it would be established. I have yet to see your response to my suggestion that players get more minutes when they play well so yo maybe getting your causation backwards. That said, if Knight plays well enough, he deserves big minutes. So who cares whether they are needed for said high performance to continue.

          • Dec 12, 201212:39 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

             ”I have yet to see your response to my suggestion that players get more minutes when they play well so yo maybe getting your causation backwards.”

            I agree, however we both know that we have a coach that is not all that flexible, some games Knight start off well, but because of the rotation he sat out an entire 2nd qrt, or the first half of the 4th qrt.

            I know you want to keep players fresh for the play-off run…OH WAIT! (not gonna do there)

            But yes i agree…..

            And I did not post this to come against you, but more so to say, that knight is much improved. He has taken a huge leap in his game, ESPECIALLY when he is allowed to play his game

          • Dec 12, 201212:40 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            “SHOT ATTEMPTS” not SHOOT

  • Dec 11, 201210:34 pm
    by MNM


    Can we for once, try & leave Frank out of this and just admit that this team has a L.O.T. (Lack Of Talent)?  It’s clear that he tries to make it a point to get these guys to work on the defensive end, but right now, it is what it is.
    Also, as much as people wanna blame Frank for, it’s not because of him that Greg Monroe has issues on both sides of the ball, or..eh’..I don’t have the energy to list players, but Im sure somebody will get the point with this roster..

    • Dec 11, 201210:47 pm
      by I HATE FRANK


      4 games in 5 nights… 6 games in 9 days….

      Plus Monroe slumping…No i dont blame coaching…

      BUT… Maggette should not have been in that game…at one point the Pistons were only down 2 points…

      The next play Maggette intentional Fouls Andre Miller and Miller gets a 3 point play…

      Next play Maggette trying to way to hard to get to the line…gets a charge, and on the exchange… Denver knocks down a 3 pointer…


    • Dec 11, 201211:07 pm
      by kamal


      I blame the coach.  Absolutely.  
      -The dude doesn’t go to Monroe enough.  
      -He allows his guards and wings to go Iso too many times.  
      -He constantly has his bigs set screens for his guards who NEVER hit the rolling big.  
      -He sits Monroe TOO long and then asks him to come in the game after sitting for 10-12 NBA minutes but more like 15-20 minutes in real time and expect him to be sharp in the clutch.  
      -He gives the greenlight to Singler and Stuckey but has his bigs on a short leash.  

      Our team isn’t the most talented but they have just as much as the Denver Nuggets.  This was a game the Pistons should have won.  Everybody else’s best player is allowed to play through struggles.  Not ours.  Monroe was 5th in minutes and shot attempts.  Playing through your guards when you have a good low post player is not only dumb, it is a recipe for losing basketball.  What’s the point of having low post players if you go to them periodically? 

      • Dec 11, 201211:27 pm
        by MNM


        Monroe has been getting the ball stripped from his grasp way too many times, he’s missing hook shots, put-backs, lay-ups (which don’t come that easy for him anyway) and rebounds. That’s on Greg. He’s not as athletic as others who play the 4 or 5 so it’s gonna be more difficult for him to do things that others who find it somewhat easy to jump off the floor and above the rim. He’s gonna have to learn to be more crafty, which won’t be easy and not hesitate so much when he get’s the ball.. Even one of the asst coaches said tonight that when his shot isn’t falling, then he is gonna have to learn to do other things and vice versa and that will come in time… Hopefully.  Frank isn’t the greatest, but your not getting Gregg Pop’ or Tom Thibadeo..they both are employeed and Phil Jackson isn’t coming out of retirement to coach this team because there are no stars..  You can’t just blame the coach when everything goes wrong. There is enough blame to go around for everybody.

        • Dec 12, 201212:06 am
          by kamal


          Greg has been stinking it up.  No question.  But he’s still our best player.  He’s still a talented big man; I’d say top 10 Center in the league.  You work him.  You don’t have him setting screens for guards who have no intention of hitting him when he rolls to the basket.  

          Monroe should not sit for 10-12 minutes at a time unless he is in foul trouble.  He should not only get 9 attempts.  It’s Frank’s job to make sure his best player is put in the best possible position to succeed.   

      • Dec 11, 201211:33 pm
        by I HATE FRANK


        Greg has too shoot that jumper, PERIOD!

        Every time he passes on that jumper he hurts the offense…. and it hurts his confidence….


        • Dec 11, 201211:52 pm
          by Piston87


          Agreed.  If Monroe won’t take that jumper (and hit it efficiently) he will never improve on offense.  His defender knows he wants to face up and drive and they are backing off and daring him to shoot that jumper.  So bigger defenders are always in position to counter his drives and post-ups.

          If no one’s telling Stuckey to stop shooting his broke 3-pters, Greg needs to step up and start taking those shots.  

      • Dec 11, 201211:40 pm
        by Patrick Hayes



        “The dude doesn’t go to Monroe enough.”

        Monroe leads the team in field goals attempted per game and in usage rate. He actually goes to Monroe more than any other player. Now, he certainly could go to him more, but Monroe also has been more turnover prone than normal, so that certainly affects the number of shots/opportunities he gets.

        “He allows his guards and wings to go Iso too many times.”

        This was a huge problem in the past. It hasn’t been a big problem this season. Prince rarely isos anymore. Singler, the starting SG, doesn’t at all. Knight does sometimes, but he also still plays off the ball a bit to take advantage of his spot up shooting ability. The only wing player who really isos a lot is Stuckey, and it’s because he can’t really generate offense for himself in any other way.

        “He sits Monroe TOO long and then asks him to come in the game after sitting for 10-12 NBA minutes but more like 15-20 minutes in real time and expect him to be sharp in the clutch.”

        Monroe is second on the team in minutes and fatigue has always been an issue for him. Maybe Monroe actually needs longer rests?

         ”He gives the greenlight to Singler and Stuckey but has his bigs on a short leash.”

        Monroe has had a handful of bad games lately, and his minutes have still been high. Maxiell shot 1-for-10 last night and still played his normal minutes. Jerebko played through a long slump before he was benched. Villanueva had three poor shooting games in a row and was allowed to work through it. The only big ‘on a short leash’ is Drummond. I agree that he shouldn’t be, but it’s not true at all of all the bigs on the roster. They all have had quite a bit of leeway to play through struggles.

         ”Our team isn’t the most talented but they have just as much as the Denver Nuggets.”

        That’s insane. This Denver team made the playoffs last season, and added Iguodala in place of Afflalo, which is an upgrade. They have two PGs who are better than any guard on Detroit’s roster. Monroe is better than any of their frontcourt options, but they are far deeper up front as Mozgov, Koufos, McGee and Faried all are capable of giving good minutes. Gallinari is better than any wing the Pistons have, and a guy who isn’t even playing right now, Wilson Chandler, might be too.

         ”What’s the point of having low post players if you go to them periodically?”

        They go to Monroe more than they go to any other player on the roster. 

        • Dec 11, 201211:52 pm
          by Lake Side Live


          Hey pat took me a minute to figure out the bumble for drummond.  Then I totally remembered the four alleyoops to to mcgee on drummonds watch and a few denver guards getting into the lane for layups.  I guess I tried to block it out of mind, haha.

          I’m interested to get your take on whether those defensive lapses were rookie learning curve or laziness.  And in regards to the Mcgee alley oops, were they defendable and if so what does drummond have to practice so it doesn’t happen anymore.  Thanks  

          • Dec 12, 201212:06 am
            by frankie d

            andre miller has been doing that to nba vets – and, obviously, to rookies! – for years.
            i think it was kind of funny cause he had to know he could simply school a young kid like drummond, very easily.
            had the pleasure of watching miller when he spent a couple years here in portland and while i’d kind of liked him before, once i saw him every game, i appreciated how good he is.  he’s been one of the best guards of the last 10-12 years.
            for whatever reason, teams always think they can do better and end up trading him.
            they almost always realize that they can’t do much better than andre miller and he has the last laugh.
            (he got into an infamous shouting match with coach nate mcmillan here, one that was heard by and reported on by the local media, with a bunch of expletives deleted shouted back and forth.  ironically, after that incident, miller had a great run in portland, with mcmillan as his coach.  but my guess is that he is not the easiest guy to get along with.)
            give drummond a break.  he’s a rookie and part of being a rookie is that wily old vets like andre miller make you look silly at times.
            hopefully he learns from his painful lesson and doesn’t let it happen again. 

          • Dec 12, 201212:07 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            Actually, that’s Dan’s headline, but as for the lapses, I don’t think it’s laziness.

            Drummond being out of position is a fairly regular occurrence so far this season. Most of the time, he’s athletic enough to recover. Against a finisher like McGee and a pinpoint passer like Dre Miller, I think that combo just inevitably made him look more lost than he would’ve against a different combination.

            Drummond has always been a shot blocker and rebounder who never really played defense. He’s actually a lot like McGee was when he came into the league (though, thankfully, he doesn’t seem to be the space cadet personality that McGee has been). His freakish athleticism has made proper defensive technique as a HS and college player irrelevant for him. That won’t cut it most nights in the NBA, and unfortunately for him, he’s having to learn positioning and NBA-level defensive rotations, communication, etc. in front of a big audience. I think it’s inevitable that he’s occasionally going to get caught badly out of position or look silly this season. I don’t think that’s a result of him not working at defense or being lazy at all, though. The game is just moving really fast for him at the moment. For as inexperienced and fundamentally unrefined as he is, he’s doing a good job of learning on the fly. But there’s always going to be potential for his missteps to look as spectacularly bad as his highlights look spectacularly good. 

          • Dec 12, 20126:37 pm
            by Lake Side Live

            To Frankie D and Pat thanks for the reply, I’m not getting down on Drummond, with this being his first year everytime I watch him, I’m looking for indications of his development.  Not having DVR I can’t break it down for myself so get opinions from others who can help flush out perceptions.

            So to get confirmations Drummonds defensive lapses are learning curve and not laziness is very encouaging.  I’ve been as impressed as anyone with him, especially considering how little experience he has against this level of competition, with his one year of college on a dysfunctional team.

            I can’t understand people who give up on guys in such a short period of time.  Like those who want to trade Knight and Monroe if look down, further in the comments after each game.     

        • Dec 12, 201212:14 am
          by kamal



          I was talking about tonight.  Tonight’s loss was on Frank in my opinion.  Tonight, Singler, Stuckey, Knight, and Prince were going for self.  Tonight, Monroe didn’t get worked enough on offense.  Tonight, didn’t get the right amount of minutes.  

          And that Denver team has a better coach.  NOBODY expected them to play as good as they did last season because of the lack of talent on that team.  A better coach could get more out of Knight and Monroe.  A better coach would know how to get the best out of his best players.  He’d know how to use them right. 

          • Dec 12, 201212:39 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            I don’t disagree that Denver has a better coach. But I also don’t think a lack of touches for Monroe was the issue tonight. He was sloppy, in foul trouble and out of sync offensively. Other players were playing better and Monroe really struggled against Denver’s length.

            Also, yes, just pointing out that advanced stats people were very high on Denver, both last year and this year, so quite a few expected the Nuggets to be a good, competitive team. 

          • Dec 12, 20127:21 am
            by Vic

            I agree with what your saying but on the converse side – Stuckey Singler and Prince are the only players that don’t turn the ball over continually.
            Against Faried, McGee, Lawson and Iggy, that could have been why those guys had green lights

            Denver just has way better players at each important position, and no one plating out of position. 

          • Dec 12, 20129:42 am
            by MIKEYDE248

            Stuckey may not turn the ball over very often, but he is an offensive fouling magnet.  I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many people receive as many as him.

  • Dec 11, 201210:35 pm
    by Stuckey and Whoever


    He can be streaking but I think more true and false on those stat lines.  60% 3pt, no..have also factor in Greg struggles as of late.  He needs to though.  But I do like that he is playing with confidence.

    • Dec 11, 201210:39 pm
      by Stuckey and Whoever


      *true than false*

  • Dec 11, 201210:40 pm


    Im starting to wonder can Knight and Monroe play together….

    Knight has been aggressive lately, and Monroe has been passive, he seem unable to play himself out poor shooting…. 

  • Dec 11, 201210:44 pm
    by Haan


    Frank’s incessant yammering about defense may be an implicit acknowledgement of a talent deficiency, in that overachieving through effort is more easily done on the defensive than offensive end.

    • Dec 11, 201210:57 pm
      by I HATE FRANK


      No he is LIMITED COACH!

      At the end of the day NO WE ARE NOT A SUPER TALENTED TEAM!

      But you have 2 guards that can score the ball…and could combine to averaged 36-40ppg….

      You have Prince, Charlie, Singler = 30ppg

      Monroe, Drummond, Maxiell = 30ppgs …

      That an average game…. but we dont have a scoring philosophy

      We often slow down to get Monroe going… My feeling is if Monroe isnt going to shoot that jumper, like Maxiell does…he hurts the team, because he slows the pace of the game down… 

  • Dec 11, 201210:58 pm
    by Mark


    You said Maxiell beasts, Monroe bumbles, and Drummond does both. Does that make Drummond a BumbleBeast? lol

  • Dec 11, 201211:00 pm
    by Ari


    I guess you can argue about player selection, but to me the bottom line of a coach is getting your team to play hard.  Frank is doing that, but the lack of true talent seems to be hurting them in close games.  They really don’t have a true go to guy that can be counted on to knock down shots consistently.  Tough to win regularly in the NBA with that kind of roster make-up.  

  • Dec 11, 201211:03 pm
    by Ari


    I like Monroe, but he’s been a walking turnover of late and unable to finish underneath on too many an occasion.  

  • Dec 11, 201211:17 pm
    by hirobeats


    Greg Monroe is soft. Greg, prove me wrong.

    • Dec 11, 201211:31 pm
      by jacob


      Greg is killing my fantasy team. He needs to step it up:)

      • Dec 11, 201211:41 pm
        by tarsier


        Just be happy you didn’t lost your internet connection for a moment and ended up auto-drafting Bynum in the first round.

        • Dec 12, 201212:09 am
          by Patrick Hayes


          Will Bynum?

          • Dec 12, 20129:34 am
            by Crispus

            Either Bynum would be tragic.

          • Dec 12, 20121:14 pm
            by tarsier

            No, definitely Andrew. Auto rankings for him were way too high. I knew it, but not much I can do about it when offline.

  • Dec 11, 201211:59 pm
    by nj


    okay i’ll say it. is monroe the guy or just the guy we’re stuck with right now. he’s been weak with the ball since he got here. he can’t finish against length and guess what…this is the nba, everybody has length in the frontcourt. you’re supposedly the teams best player but you have to be subbed out for defense? then on offense everytime someone swipes at the ball he loses it. i want him to be the double double machine that brings the franchise back but i’m losing faith.

    • Dec 12, 201212:15 am
      by Mark


      I’m starting to wonder about him too. The formula for championships with this franchise is defense. We need to be the best defensive team in the league in order to win championships here. Its hard to envision us ever being that again with Monroe playing major minutes.

      Sure Drummond can hide some of his mistakes, but eventually deep in the playoffs Monroe will be exposed and teams will use him as a mismatch repeatedly. To be a great defensive team you need both biug men to be great defenders. Monroe is an excellent offensive player overall, but he’s a liability on defense.

      Its weird because you look at that draft and Monroe seems like he would’ve been the perfect fit for SAC, being basically Webber 2.0. And Cousins seems like the perfect in DET being Sheed 2.0. I think both teams should’ve flipped picks, and maybe still should and consider trading Moose for Cousins. Its just hard to see us every being great on defense again with Monroe. But Cousins/Drummond could be dominant on defense. And Cousins also has a more consistent jumpshot so he’d probably fit better on offense too. He’s almost as good a passer as Greg too. Its something Joe should consider

      • Dec 12, 201212:19 am
        by Mark


        If there’s any player in the league that could be the next Ben on defense I think its Drummond. And Cousins reminds me a lot of Rasheed, minus the 3pt shooting. Drummond/Cousins could be our next Ben/Sheed on defense. More so than Dre/Moose at least.

    • Dec 12, 20127:58 am
      by vic


      Monroe can do it, he just needs a coach that’s going to make him take and hit that shot with confidence, and put him on the floor with a big target to pass to.

      Laimbeer is the coach, Drummond is the big target.
      Then he’ll have a triple threat out of the high post instead of just 1/3. 

  • Dec 12, 201212:04 am
    by Kerghan


    Looks to me like since BK stopped trying to be a ‘proper’ point guard he has improved dramatically.
    Sure the assists aren’t there but really that isn’t a huge deal. He is averaging 5 apg this season anyway.
    If he can keep putting up say 16-20 pts a game and the team as a whole just shares the ball things will be fine.
    Consider this for arguments sake. Chauncey Billups took 7 seasons before he even hit 5 assists per game and he never had more than 8.6. And that was in the Flip (lets not worry about defense) era.
    In our championship season he averaged 5.7. Not exactly setting the world on fire, but during his Pistons tenure he was much more of a scorer.
    Knight will do just fine if he continues to play his game which at this point is more suited to scoring. The rest will come with time and experience.

    • Dec 12, 20128:47 am
      by hirobeats


      Thank you. Said the same thing in my last rant. Average 5 assists, score 18-20 points. That’s fine. I don’t accept the notion that we need a “pure point guard” to win. Especially since you’ve got another combo guard in Stuckey (who I think is ready to start again) who balances it out by averaging about 5 assists himself. Let’s retire the whole, “he’s not a pure point guard” bit. So what? 

      • Dec 12, 20128:55 am
        by hirobeats


        Another great point with the Billups comparison. When NBA DraftExpress scouted BK7, they said his best case scenario was a Chauncey Billups in his prime.  That Chauncey won us an NBA Championship (Final’s MVP) and was a four time all-star. I have full confidence that Brandon Knight can develop into that type of player down the line. And you all (not you all specifically, but piston fandom in generally, ahem… Detroitbadboys.com…) are ready to write him off after barely one full season? Everyone just relax, the kid will be a very good player ON THIS TEAM, not somewhere else, pure point guard or not. 

  • Dec 12, 201212:13 am
    by Delray313


    Somebody please put Frank out of his misery. Did you guys see will bynum dam he really made a case to stay his ass on the bench he had no effort and lawson just blew past him like bynum wanted him to.

    • Dec 12, 20129:56 am
      by MIKEYDE248


      I liked the fact that Frank played Bynum yesterday, although not because I wanted Bynam playing, but hoping that this is the first step in getting Jonas back in the lineup.

  • Dec 12, 201212:18 am
    by Anthony


    To precede the comment I am about to make, I would just like to say that I have been a loyal Pistons fan since I first caught interest in basketball years ago. I have never played organized basketball, but I like to play pickup games and such.

    Now. The Pistons pick and roll defense is sickening to watch. When someone comes over to screen the on-ball defender, it’s as if that defender’s teammate is not even calling out which side the pick is coming from. After, the on-ball defender slams into the pick while the other defender switches onto the player that just utilized the screen while the original on-ball defender recovers from slamming into the pick. All while this is happening, the player who set the pick is WIDE open. I don’t understand this, and it is so frustrating to watch the Pistons do it over and over. When someone sets a pick, I’ve been told to call out the side it’s coming from. And then communicate with my teammate to either switch or to stick on the person they were originally defending. The Pistons don’t even go under or over picks, they slam into them (not even fighting through them) and end up leaving one man open until the second defender gets off the ballhandler and sprints back over to the screen setter (the player they were orignally defending) who is now wide open. This usually leads to them scoring because they just swing the ball while the rest of the team is giving their attention to whoever is open instead of the man they should be guarding. The ball moves faster than legs! If I were coaching against the Pistons, I would tell my team to keep running pick and rolls and swinging the ball until you get a good shot. I swear the Pistons D will collapse every fricken’ time. Sorry for the rant, but if I were coach Frank, the Pistons would be getting an ear full of this and more. Thoughts? 

  • Dec 12, 20121:01 am
    by Mark


    Frank sucks. He was out coached by Collins last night, heck he is out coached most nights. When are we going to see Middleton and English?  If we a aren’t going to let them play, they should be headed to the D league. 

  • Dec 12, 20121:04 am
    by piston moribund


    Watched half the game but was already clear that Pistons would lose so I turned it off.  Coaching is to blame.  Frank sets the rotations, he sets the tone for the game, he is the man in control, he is to blame.  He is the one to put the team in a position to win and the ball in the hands of the person who is suppose to make that shot. 
    1.  Greg Monroe cannot play defense on purpose, he can only play defense and rebound because he is tall.  He may be able to pass like Brad Miller but he is no C Webb. not even close.  Old school equals playing below the rim and granny shots.
    2.  Pistons cannot defend the pick and roll.  Most frustrating thing to watch since most NBA plays are predicated on the pick and roll.
    3.  B Knight wants to win really really badly, which is why he is no longer passing to anyone.  Smartest person on the team by far.  Still makes awful passes but plays the hardest out there along with Singler.
    4.  Max is over rated.  Would not start for any other NBA team which generally proves that this team is BAD.
    5.  Why is Corey playing????????Frank should be fired just for that.
    Feeling like there is no reason to watch anymore.  Hey Frank, Bobby Knight called, he wants his team manager back.

    • Dec 12, 20121:17 pm
      by tarsier


      And if max were on another team, people would say there is no way he starts on the Pistons with them employing both Monroe and Drummond. But here we are. So maybe he would start on another team.

  • Dec 12, 20125:04 am
    by Seto


    tonight we saw one player I think would help the Pistons – Corey Brewer – athletic, can shoot, good on defense, still young and will be free agent….We probably won´t be able to sign superstars, but I would like to have players like him for cheap

  • Dec 12, 20127:54 am
    by vic


    Tonight we saw that a point guard that can control the game and get assists and make scoring easy for any big man would be able to make our teams parts fit together better than the coach can.

    Imagine a 6’6 pass first combo guard Michael Carter Williams seeing over the defense and feeding Drummond like Miller to MCGee/Aldridge/whateverBig he’s ever played with.

    Then Knight takes his turn going on scoring binges and dropping 3s.

    Could be a thing of beauty. 

  • Dec 12, 20128:01 am
    by D_S_V


    Maxiell is looking like a mighty fine prospect for a contender seeking a third big… Which is why the Pistons need to outbid themselves and resign him. 

  • Dec 12, 201210:03 am
    by MIKEYDE248


    It seems like the same thing every game.  The Pistons score a bunch of points in the paint, take an early lead, the resort to outside shots the rest of the way.  Every time they go a a scoring drought, it’s because they aren’t taking easy shots.

    If I were Frank, when they go on one of their long scoring droughts, I would bench anyone that takes an outside shot and force them to go inside.

  • Dec 12, 201211:35 am
    by rick


    In football its about the jmmy and joes and not the x’s and o’s, but in basketball it really is about the x’s and o’s. So I don’t get where everyone always says we are devid of talent but wants to get rid of half the team. If you see their is no talent then what make you think another GM would take a flier on any of said players? My point is you roll with what you have and make the best of it.

    Noone likes Maxiel because he is 6’7 but if he were 6’10 then we would not be having this discussion. I think he brings it every night and it is not his fault that Greg Monroe plays such shoddy defense. If Monroe realized that teir is something called defense then the rest of his game would pick up. How many years are guys gonna give him a pass? He just looks very lazy except when it comes to offense. Pistons fans need to stop looking at him with the rose colored glasses on and judge him accordingly. He is his third year and still doesnt see that defense is the key to offense?This is a team, which the acronym together everyone achieves more. When they get on that page then everyone will be alright.

     Now take the fact that AI on Denver just got on their team this year and he fits. That is because of the coach and how he sees this guy fit into his role on the team. If Frank could do that then we would be fine but as far as we seen he is totally incapable of doing so. People can keep saying that we have no talent but I beg to differ because when was the last time n all star team won a title? You have to have role players,guys willing to do dirty work.

    I have not felt that Detroit was anything good since the last game Chauncey played. I just cant take them serious under their current coach. I feel management probably thought they would be farther along than they are now and for some reason it just has not happened. It’s not all about talent sometimes you gotta be to make something outta nothing. Ask yourself who thought the 03 Pistons would challenge New Jersey b4 bowing out in the conference finals that year? Noone knew about anyone on our team and Im sure many people were sour still with the loss of Grant Hill then Joe goes and trades Stackhouse for Hamilton. Noone knew so my point is it is up to the coach to mix and match to see what works best. The problem was not getting another defensive big man and a backup point guard. Had they done that we all may not be having this discussion.

    • Dec 12, 20121:19 pm
      by Vic


      I agree with you we definitely have talent but nba basketball is about matchups, and we really don’t match well with Denver…

      Especially when the coach doesnt get the best matchup advantages with players, it’s good to have either more talent OR a coach on the floor I.e game controlling pass first pg that gets everyone involved and gets better than the sum of the parts 

      without Larry Brown we don’t get 04 Championship. With Larry Brown we get multiple championships. There are only a few great coaches to go around so the other options are to get game changing coaches on the floor and/or superior talent. 

      • Dec 12, 20121:31 pm
        by Vic


        Case in point, Dallas lost their defensive talent to New York and Tyson Chandler, then they lost their coach on the floor to New York and Jason Kidd. So Dallas went from championship out of the hunt, and New York is suddenly a contender. You either need a great coach on the bench or a great coach on the floor (pass first player) + talent

      • Dec 12, 20121:46 pm
        by Vic


        So this is the first time I’ve ever said this but here goes: if Joe Dumars refuses to hire a competent decision making coach like Bill Laimbeer, and if he refuses to draft a pass first guard such as Michael Carter Williams or Marcus Smart or Nate Walters, then Joe is the one that has to go, because he becomes the problem.

        The main problem is not talent anymore it’s gametime decision-making.

        We have productive bigs, we have shooters, we have slashers. We lack discipline and decision making. 

      • Dec 12, 20123:36 pm
        by MIKEYDE248


        They remind me too much of the Lion’s right now.  They are in most games, but just don’t know how to finish off the other team.  I think that goes back to coaching.

  • Dec 12, 20121:14 pm
    by Desolation Row


    Monroe for Cousins?

  • Dec 12, 20124:34 pm


    I’d rather trade Monroe for an Athletic Wing player…

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