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Brandon Knight, Will Bynum give away any chance of Pistons upsetting Clippers

The Pistons are much improved at protecting the ball from a  year ago, but the Clippers are the NBA’s best team at forcing turnovers.

So, something had to give when the teams met Monday.

Unfortunately, it was Brandon Knight and Will Bynum.

Knight gave the Clippers five turnovers in 36 minutes and Bynum gave four turnovers in 15 minutes during an 88-76 loss.

The Pistons successfully sucked the life from the game, holding Los Angeles to its season-low scoring in a win, but even a slow pace couldn’t prevent some ugly turnovers. For most of the game, Detroit played the Clippers close to even in several key areas.

The real difference was the Clippers’ quick steals and the easy dunks that followed. Those plays took just a few seconds, but the results were crucial. On a night both teams struggled to score, the Clippers got a few easy baskets and the Pistons didn’t.

In many ways, this boiled down to the fact that the Clippers have Chris Paul and the Pistons don’t. Paul (seven assists and three steals) made this game much easier for the Clippers, and on the other hand, Knight and Bynum put the Pistons in a hole.

For the Pistons to stay as close as they did is really to their credit during a tough game against a very good team.

Los Angeles Clippers 88 Final
Recap | Box Score
76 Detroit Pistons
Jason Maxiell, PF 26 MIN | 1-6 FG | 0-2 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | -9

Maxiell usually doesn’t hurt the Pistons when he plays poorly, because he doesn’t shoot much and his width helps clog the lane for defense and team rebounding. But tonight he hurt the team by shooting too much. In addition to not rebounding, Maxiell looked too often for his mid-range jumper. I initially thought he played decent defense on Blake Griffin, keeping Griffin out of the paint. But Griffin also stayed away from the rim when guarded by Charlie Villanueva, so maybe that’s more on Griffin tonight.

Tayshaun Prince, SF 36 MIN | 6-12 FG | 2-2 FT | 7 REB | 0 AST | 15 PTS | -8

Prince was solid. His offense was definitely better when he worked to get closer to the rim than when he settled for jumpers.

Kyle Singler, SF 39 MIN | 5-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 11 PTS | +1

Singler was probably playing a bit over his head earlier the season, but as he reverts to the mean, he still looks like a productive player — especially for this team.

Greg Monroe, C 39 MIN | 4-7 FG | 3-6 FT | 7 REB | 6 AST | 11 PTS | -10

Monroe shouldn’t escape blame for the Pistons’ turnover problems. He had three, but he also had more assists than Brandon Knight and Will Bynum. Monroe’s best plays came working from the high post, and he was effective overall, but I’d like him to get a higher usage. He’s still the best player on this team.

Brandon Knight, PG 36 MIN | 5-16 FG | 3-5 FT | 5 REB | 5 AST | 16 PTS | -8

Knight’s turnovers were a big problem, but he was playing against Chris Paul, the NBA’s best point guard. I’m not worried about Knight’s 3-of-10 3-point shooting. Knight has proven himself a good 3-point shooter, and that’s not bad for an off night.

Charlie Villanueva, PF 12 MIN | 2-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 6 PTS | -1

Villanueva didn’t play in the second half. Is he on his way out of the rotation?

Austin Daye, PF 18 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 2 PTS | -11

Daye played for the first time in the last 11 games. If Daye worthy of playing time, I suppose he deserves a longer look before being sent back to the bench. I’d rather ride with Daye’s upside, how much ever of that is left, that playing Maggette more, but Daye did nothing to show he could help the team tonight.

Andre Drummond, C 20 MIN | 2-8 FG | 3-4 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 7 PTS | -4

Drummond was looking for shots in opportunities he wouldn’t have otherwise (a short jumper, a couple postups and a catch in heavy traffic), and although the results weren’t pretty, this could be a sign of progress. Hopefully, the Pistons keep putting more on Drummond’s plate. Whether or not he succeeds immediately, the challenges will accelerate his growth.

Will Bynum, PG 15 MIN | 3-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 6 PTS | -10

Bynum is fine for a third guard, but when Rodney Stuckeywho missed the game with back spasms — gets healthy, Bynum should probably fall back out of the rotation.

Lawrence Frank, HEAD COACH

Frank played Austin Daye, benched Corey Maggette and did both with Charlie Villanueva. He is experimenting. Frank could stand to play Drummond more and Maxiell less, but at least Drummond took on more responsibility tonight. We’ll have to keep watching to get a better feel for whether that was part of Frank’s gameplan or whether Drummond was freelancing.


  • Dec 17, 201211:48 pm
    by Trent


    Just curious what pistons fans think our record would be if instead of Kim, Khris and Slava on our roster we had t-will, Flynn and Big Ben. Our cap would look basically the same…

    we seam to be getting in to winning situations but not converting and I think it comes from a lack of competitive depth.

    i know it’s prayer in hope but will we make a move?

    • Dec 17, 201211:55 pm
      by menten


      no, dumars wont make a move. cause hes a lazy fat ass

    • Dec 18, 20121:42 am
      by tarsier


      A lack of competitive depth?

      Or Frank’s unwillingness to use Kim, Khris, and Slava?

      I see not reason to assume Flynn, Williams, and Wallace would be any better, if used, than those three.

  • Dec 17, 201211:54 pm
    by menten


    dude what are you talking about. we didnt lose this game because of turnovers but because we couldnt score. it might help to bench this useless midget maxiell though and give drummond more minutes

    • Dec 18, 20121:42 am
      by tarsier


      TOs make it really friggin’ hard to score.

  • Dec 18, 201212:02 am
    by Brigs


    has anyone else noticed that we can’t seem to inbound the ball within 5 sec

  • Dec 18, 201212:08 am
    by Otis


    Interestingly enough, I read this headline and instantly attributed it to Dan Feldman, even though my perception is that Patrick Hayes seems to handle the lion’s share of the recaps (if I’ve even been paying attention). Personally, I think Patrick is a bit more measured, and I tend to agree with his commentary more often than Dan’s.

    Personally, I think it’s unfair and borderline ridiculous to lay this at the feet of Knight and Bynum. This game, along with maybe 50 others this season, was lost by Joe Dumars. There are some games the Pistons just aren’t going to win, barring a miracle, and this was one of them. Not much to say about this game. We should all know enough about basketball to know that this game would at best be close for three quarters and out of reach in the fourth.

  • Dec 18, 201212:17 am
    by Mel


    No one mentioned the two crucial turnovers Monroe made in the 3rd to give the Clips a big lead. it took all the momentum away from us at that point then it was catch up the rest of the game. Monroe really have mental lapse during games. He lets other players strip the ball from him all the time . You would think he would try and be more conscious out on the floor, but every game it happens. I wonder sometimes if he just smoked a big fat one before the games. Yeah Max has had his 27 games of stardom sit him down now. Let Slava and Drummond play center and Moose play PF.

    • Dec 18, 20121:47 am
      by tarsier



      Please read the section on momentum.

      For a quick summary of a reasonable person’s take on momentum:
      “I don’t doubt that some semblance of momentum exists somewhere, but the amount of effort and posthaste thinking that goes into defining momentum swings and momentum-changing plays has seemed, well, sloppy. It’s more like an effort to slap a narrative on independent events happening within the context of a game than a way of actually capturing meaningful shifts in the emotional state of one.”

  • Dec 18, 20121:17 am
    by Ahmed


    Well, Andre Drummond did not play enough. Did you guys notice the difference after Drummond sat down. Always when Drummond sits something bad happens. Fire Frank. He is no good!!

  • Dec 18, 20121:51 am
    by Delray313


    Sorry cant blame knight or bynum they did have turnovers, but max should have been on the bench he didnt do anything one dunk. At least Cv hit two 3s he should have rolled the dice with Cv a little longer, i blame frank 100 percent.

  • Dec 18, 20122:25 am
    by piston moribund


    Guess it was bad timing that Kim got sent down.  Could have used Stuck to guard Paul 2nite.  Really a big difference when Stuck is not there.  Oh well, game was really entertaining until Max came back and proceeded to be really short and slow.  Dre passed the eye test again even though he didnt put up great numbers.  Seems like he is a bit lost at times which accounts for some missed opportunities.  Just no easy lay ups when he is in there. takes the defense away from Moose b/c max does not operate much in the paint and cant shoot.  That means whenever moose drives, the defense collapses and its one on three.  Dre had countless tips that saved possessions for the pistons, if only to take his man away from the play so that someone else can rebound…….The defense has to be aware of him at the very least.  His presence makes a big difference.  If I were Moose, I would be pissed too….
    1.  Daye scored and seem to play within himself, although his confidence is obviously shot but managed not to make a complete ass out of himself.
    2.  Corey was glued to the bench, hopefully a sign of the times. One down, one to go.
    Why the hell didn’t Thor play? Where Frank’s tie?  Funny that he left his tie but still managed to hang himself.

    • Dec 18, 20128:32 am
      by I HATE FRANK


      BRILLIANT!!!!! LOL!!!!

    • Dec 18, 20129:23 am
      by MIKEYDE248


      Awesome!!!  I loved the line “this team is so bad it makes CV look good”.

    • Dec 18, 20129:52 am
      by apa8ren9


      Oh my goodness that just made my day. “And we have this retarded rotation”.  LMFAO.
      that just puts it in perspective.

    • Dec 18, 201210:25 am
      by Lee


      This is hilarious! Thanks for the post!

    • Dec 18, 201210:57 am
      by Vic


      That was incredibly funny

    • Dec 18, 201212:13 pm
      by frankie d


      after bypassing it several times, i finally watched it.
      brilliant indeed.
      laugh out loud funny shyte.
      (the lines about CV were definitely the best.  too bad he’s such an easy object of derision, and that he is on the team i root for!)
      thanks for the laugh. 

    • Dec 18, 201212:57 pm
      by piston moribund


      Made my day.  I guess that makes Hermann Göring, Joseph Goebbels, and Heinrich Himmler all pstons fans.  This should be called the bunker blog.

    • Dec 18, 20122:49 pm
      by MIKEYDE248


      Funny how a video talking about how bad the Pistons are and the decisions they are making gets more responses than all the other posts.

  • Dec 18, 20128:11 am
    by Vic


    Frank is doing a great job tanking the season early. When I saw who he had playing in the 4th quarter I started thinking about draft picks, which is so obviously what he is coaching for

  • Dec 18, 20128:44 am


    Knight had his worse overall peformance this month, and I hope it wont become a trend…I would have gave him a D+ or C- because his role is as a scorer on this team. It kills we when people say we need a TRUE PG…NO WE DONT… You need a TRUE PG.. when you have MORE than one player capable of scoring 20 or more per-game…

    Please look around the league and prove me wrong….

    But I love the way the Clippers play defense(it should be an example for us)…quick and they know who they are trapping and WHY!..They never trapped “MAXIELL”….It would have given any PG problems outside vets like J-Kidd, Parker or Rondo…

    Now about Drummond and Monroe….you can tell frank never plays for them to be on the floor together. Because the do the same play everytime… Drummond on the left side of the block, Monroe at the FT line…Monroe Drives..and dishes to Drummond for the dunk or lay -up….

    Same play…

  • Dec 18, 20128:47 am
    by Clint in Flint


    The only thing the Pistons are much improved at is losing.

  • Dec 18, 20128:58 am
    by Al


    So what’s so different than last year 4-20 start?? We are 7-20…. A whopping +3 wins! I watched the game, I just dont know whats up with the Pistons. They start out competitive then a one point or another they let the game slip away only never to recover from it. No Stuckey last night hurt, would have been nice to send in English or Middleton. Talk about the perfect chance to make an impression!! I wonder how the team really feels about Frank and if they truly believe whatever he says after losses like this? Im ready to see Jonas back, he brings some fight to the game that is sorely missed and may even provide a spark on some nights! Let Slava come in as well, I think he has some fight in him to that would pester the other defender, hell anything new with our untapped talent would be refreshing at this point!!!!!! Go Pistons…. Sighs

    • Dec 18, 20129:30 am
      by I HATE FRANK


      @ AL …and I could be wrong…so dont shoot yourself…

      we are now 7-20…

      Last year after 27 games we were 7-20!!!

      So we dont even have a 3 game improvement…

      You can argure we have gotten worse as a team…Still No Chemistry…No set Defense, No Set offense… but last year we had some legit excuses…

      Common denominator = FRANK!

  • Dec 18, 20129:19 am


    First 11 games we go 2-9
    Last 11 games we are 2-9

  • Dec 18, 20129:33 am
    by Rober Bayer


    Hold off on dumping on Knight just yet .. As long as JMAX is out there .. teams that can double team him hard .. are .. like the Clippers just did ..causing turnovers… Did you watch this game at all?! Doing the same to Monroe .. Frank has to start someone who is a threat to score or to be an awesome rebounder on the boards .. or at least have plays for the PF not being covered to score somehow and make the opposing team pay for double teams … Not so far .. While Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman were hardly  great offensive threats .. they were exceptional offensive rebounders so they HAD to be covered for blocking off the boards at all times in case a shot went up .. Jmax isnt that good .. though he does a decent job against smaller teams … Jmax is what needs to be fixed next and the common sense fix is START DRUMMOND .. who cannot be left alone as he is a threat to get offensive rebounds and big enough to score down low more often than not (Drummond .567 FG% to MAX’s .460  … Not a finished product but .. a legit starter which Maxielle, no matter how big his heart .. is not .. How’d you guys miss this?!

  • Dec 18, 201210:13 am
    by picknroll


    The youtube video was hilarious!

  • Dec 18, 201210:30 am
    by Big Rick


    Some well stated points gentlemen, but I do feel that we really do need a capable ball distributor. Whether that’s a pass 1st PG, a Point Forward, etc. We need the type of player that can make others better. Or at the very least the type of player (preferably PG) that can be a coach on the floor and put the players in the best position to succeed. This would be especially helpful to our young players big men in particular. My Christmas list is full of veteran and or young promising PGs in order of preference. 1 & 2 is a tossup to me. But I could see Bledsoe in the #1 spot. I gave Calderon the nod because he’s been a consistent PG for the last few years. Seems like he gets no respect. Same for Andre Miller.
    1. Jose Calderon
    2. Eric Bledsoe
    3. Andre Miller
    4. Mo Williams
    5. Brandon Jennings
    6. Mr. Big Shot
    7. I never really liked him, but at this point in time I wouldn’t be mad if we were able to swing a deal for Jameer Nelson. lol
    Worst case scenario, the Pistons front office and coaching staff don’t bring in a true PG within the next year or so and they try to force Knight to become our PG of the future because they don’t want to admit they were wrong. In which we will hear Joe D, (whom I’m an apologist for sometimes and a huge fan of) talk about the value of combo guards and how you can’t pigeon hole Stuckey or Knight….. (sigh)

    • Dec 18, 201210:51 am
      by Vic


      If we had a true pg or a better coach, Knight, Drummind and Monroe could trade 20+ point nights. Nobody scores well when the game is out of control and the ball is constantly in threat to be turned over…

      I don’t want an old one, I want a young one though- Bledsoe or MCW 

  • Dec 18, 201210:37 am
    by Al


    @ IHF…… FRIGHTENING!!!!!!! And straight up sad. I still have faith but man what does that mean as a team. All that hard work put in over the summer smh. Admitting, yea, its early still in the season but they seem to be going in the wrong direction at this point. So if a big trade is not in the works, what is Frank’s plan for this season. Continue to use the vets at an alarming rate over youth? Or should I say Dumar’s plan..

  • Dec 18, 201210:37 am
    by mixmasta


    I just don’t get why Frank can figure closing games out. He makes substitutions a little too late and substitutes the wrong players. I don’t buy the merit part as obviously that is not what’s happening.
    We needed rebounds so why replace Drummond with JMax who was out-rebounded the whole game! 2 rebound in 25minutes?!!!
    He still has his job even without achievement positive improvement thus no merit.

  • Dec 18, 201210:57 am
    by DG


    Unfortunately I find myself looking more and more towards the draft.  the Pistons really do need a traditional point guard, which has me thinking Michael Carter-Williams out of Syracuse or Trey Burke from Michigan.  Carter-Williams has the height to compensate for Knight being a smallish two guard.  I think Stuckey coming off the bench is a good thing because I think he’s good enough to dominate most second units in the league.  Knight has proven he can score and shoot the three ball.  But ball handling is not his forte.  Neither is it Bynum’s.  I think Monroe’s trying to over-compensate for an obvious need to distribute the ball better on the team.

    It’s time for the Pistons to stop playing guys out of their natural positions. That includes Knight as a PG, Monroe as a center, Singler as a two guard and Daye as a power forward.  Really?  Who makes those decisions?  Is it because of a bad roster or are they trying to hard to create mis-matches to compensate for lack of real talent?

    I would love for the Pistons to address PG in the draft and small forward with free agency or a trade.  Derrick Williams?  I don’t know.  He’s got talent (or he wouldn’t have been drafted #2) and would come cheap.  He could shoot the three ball at Arizona.  Makes me think Minnesota is not using him to his talents.  Josh Smith?  He could help establish the defensive identity the Pistons seem to want to build around.

    A line-up of Carter-Williams, Knight, Josh Smith, Monroe and Drummond looks way better on paper than the current version of the Stones.  With Stuckey and Singler headlining a second unit you might have something good brewing in Detroit.  The playoffs would be more than a pipe dream at least.

    • Dec 18, 20121:06 pm
      by vic


      I totally agree with you.

      their first need is a pass first pg that can score and defend. MCW just happens to be the perfect fit. He was more of a scorer last year and in HS, and he’s 6’6 and has crazy steal and rebound numbers.

      Their 2nd need is a go-to-scorer that can finish instead of turn the ball over.. That could be Shabazz.

      But I think if we get 1, we dont need 2 as much. I actually think English, Middleton, Singler, and Jerebko can hold down the 2/3 positions. – English and Jerebko on defense, Middleton and Singler on offense.

      Their competitive advantage is really going to be Drummond and Monroe, and they need someone who can set the team up and get everybody playing their natural positions – without being a liability on defense.

  • Dec 18, 201211:34 am
    by Corey


    71 minutes to four players who received a “D” or lower. I realize the grades are subjective, and this is just one data point, but let’s ponder it. It means 4 players, playing 30% of the total minutes in the game, that were basically worthless. I suspect we’d see that a lot, if someone went back through the grades.  If Stuckey had been available, that number would probably have been lower. But an NBA team should probably expect to have one rotation player unavailable at any point in time in the regular season. So let’s take it as is.

    This probably means the Pistons need 3 more rotation-quality players in the rotation to be a good team. I wish we’d try to find out if some of the guys available (English, Middleton, Kravtsov) could be one of those players, instead of playing people we know will not be regularly competent (e.g. CV, Daye, Maggette).

    I’d dearly like to know what happened to JJ, as he was rotation-quality last year, but has been poor this year.  I want to see him at small forward to see what he can do. Perhaps Maggette is out of the rotation and we’ll get a look at JJ at SF. But it looks more likely, judging by last night, that Daye may be getting a chance first.  In that case, JJ’s turn hopefully won’t be too far off.

  • Dec 18, 201211:36 am
    by Corey


    Also – I think Monroe and Knight would both look better with more capable shooters around them.  The pistons badly need a good shooting guard. Singler is just a stopgap at guard(although he’s another guy I’d like to see get regular minutes at SF).

  • Dec 18, 201212:49 pm
    by Ozzie-Moto


    Joe D will never prioritize drafting a real point guard because he doesn’t believe in them ….   Because he had comb skills he thinks that all that is ever needed. JD long past knowing how to build a team.  Frank needs to be fired Period. Does not motivate or know how to make adjustments.  His brief success was just riding the coat tails of Byron Scott and what he built up…. 

  • Dec 18, 20121:03 pm
    by Ozzie-Moto


    More reasons we should sign Joe D to another 10 year deal. Max, Prince and CV should be given 7 year extensions at close to max dollars. L Frank: Head coach with M Curry and J Kuester as top assistants should be give life long contracts……  or close to it .. Oh i guess we are close to it    

            Pistons Have NBAs Biggest Attendance Decline Over Past 10 Years – RealGM Wiretap

    Dripping Sarcasm  

    • Dec 18, 20121:18 pm
      by vic


      I know Gores has to be happy about that.

      MC Hammer can’t fix this Tom! 

  • Dec 18, 20121:11 pm
    by Big Rick


    Speak of the devil, looks like that worst case scenario is coming to fruition according to: http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/truebluepistons_121218b.html

  • Dec 18, 20122:58 pm
    by vic


    Top draft dreams:

     Pick 1

    Tier 1: MCW
    Tier 2: Shabazz, CJ MCcollum, Otto Porter, Ben McClemore, Archie Goodwin
    Tier 3: Noel, Plumlee, Mitchell, Poythress, Len, Austin

    Pick 2:
    Patric Young
    Jeff Withey
    Nate Wolters 

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