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This is the worst start in Pistons history

By losing to the Oklahoma City Thunder last night, the Pistons fell to 0-8 – their worst start in franchise history.

The Pistons had also started 0-7 in 1962-63 and 1980-81.

47 Comments

  • Nov 13, 201210:00 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    We are the worst rebounding team in the league and allow the most points to be scored. I love Maxiell but it is clear that he would be more useful to this team on the second unit. If we lose our next 4-5 games then i would expect one of two things to happen 1) Frank inserts Drummond and Singler into the starting line up or 2) Frank will be fired. I’ve been pretty calm about our poor start but it is clear the vets just can’t get it done. I think it might be time to blood the youngsters. Personally i think Joe will give Frank another 10 or so games to right the ship but i feel all he needs to do is tell him to play the kids more…who knows he might even get his 1st win if he does.

    • Nov 13, 201210:42 am
      by David

      Reply

      10 games huh? then what? Who would Dumars hire as coach? Phil Jackson? Sure, Frank makes mistakes. But this team has bigger issues than coaching, and another coach isn’t going to come in and  just play rookie ball night after night.

       If Dumars really wants Frank to play the young fellas more, and Prince and Maxiel less there is something much direct he can do:
      trade Maxiel
      trade Tay

      takes the decision out of Frank’s hands. 

       

      • Nov 13, 20125:10 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        @David My point is that the vets are getting blown out and the combination is clearly not working. I was all for giving that starting 5 (Monroe, Max, Prince, Stuckey, Knight) a shot to start the year but feel know it is time to move on. As far as Frank goes i don’t think he is a bad coach but rather if he won’t play our rookies more with how bad our starters are playing then maybe he isn’t the right person for the job. As i said in my post i’ve remained very patient but it is hard too when you see our Detroit Pistons get beat on the boards and have 110 points per game scored on them. I do agree with you that a trade must be made and Prince is clearly that guy as we have 3 SF that can replace his production as of now. I don’t think Max has to be traded but rather be brought in as 1st big man off the bench. Max is great as an energy guy and if he is playing good then play him for extended minutes.

    • Nov 13, 201211:03 am
      by rick

      Reply

      Oh yeah blame the vets. Smdh

      • Nov 13, 20124:45 pm
        by Sop

        Reply

        blaming the vets is too simple. Really have to look at how well Stuckey and Knight are playing together. They both need the ball to be effective, especially Stuckey, and neither is particularly athletic or possesses advanced court vision. Have to wonder if these two can coexist. Losing last night’s game was no surprise, but the inability to close out games is the disappointing part. The real loss here is that it will be hard to attract free agents this summer if the team has this poor of a record.
         

  • Nov 13, 201210:33 am
    by David

    Reply

    I was looking at the box score last night and noticed something, which is pretty obvious but I’d hadn’t picked up on it until now: the pistons starting 5 and 9 of their 10 players in active rotation were all drafted by the Pistons. The only exception is Bynum, who was essentially “drafted” out of the european leagues.

    Ok, Maggette will certainly join the rotation once he’s back. And yes, CV is a highly paid cheerleader who’s played a couple minutes this season… But right now, they don’t consistently play a single player picked up thru trade or FA. Everyone’s on a rookie contract, an extension, or a re-signed contract. Pistons, all of them, for life (so far at least).

    A quick look around the league and, as far as I can tell, the Pistons are the only team even remotely like this. And it does seem like an extremely unlikely way to build a winning team. No GM/front office is that good and lucky on draft night, not even Joe Dumars ;)

    Really, it’s just a random, weird fact. And I’m not advocating going all in on FA or trades as there’s a lot of ways to screw up a team that way. 

     

    • Nov 13, 201210:59 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      Sharp, observation David. For a while, now, I have thought that their are no GMs that are willing to make a deal or deals with Joe for whatever reason(s). This is the primary reason, why Joe must be replaced.

      • Nov 13, 201211:06 am
        by rick

        Reply

        Care to elaborate instead of saying he needs to go. I would like to hear your explanation as to why he should go instead of blanket staements. I mean the man just made the last three dafts and he needs to go. Not really advocating but be real his hands were tied the last three years of the Davidson tenure so please tell me who you replace him with….. Im waiting.

        • Nov 13, 201211:43 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          His hands were tied for three years? Where do you get that idea? I though his hands were supposed to be tied between Bill Davidson’s death (Mar 13, 2009) until Gores’ purchase of the team (June 1, 2011).  Considering the fact that there is really not much a GM can do besides scouting between March and June, that’s two years.

          And the idea that his hands were tied is overstated. He couldn’t do just anything, but the Pistons clearly needed to rebuild. Getting rid of contracts should not have been a problem. Most notably, he could have acquired an extra first rounder in a very deep draft by flipping Prince for Butler–a nearly identically valuable player whose only real downside was that he was out for the rest of a season in which the Pistons weren’t making the playoffs anyway.

          • Nov 13, 20121:56 pm
            by rick

            Cmon now dont play dumb 2008,2009,2010 the old man was dying in 08 so if most choose to act like they dont remember I surely do.  If he had total control then why did we not get Boozer for Hamilton? Exactly. His hands were tied for three years and the best he could do was draft because what did Karen Davidson know about drafting? I am not gonna sit here and act like their is a beter Gm because if their is he is probably in San Antonio. Tell me who everyone wants him replaced with and I ll stop arguing. I just feel its counter productive to sit here and put all teh onus on Joe when he is the Gm not the one who cuts the check, period.

            To Sebastian your point makes no sense because you speak as if you have insider knowledge as to who he has had contact with. I mean he tried to get Tyson Chandler a few years back but Jordan would not budge so I am tired of all the arm chair Gm acting they have been there before. Yeah Detroit sucks but the man in charge is the man who bought us a championship. Riley aint coming here nor is R.C. Buford.  To see here and act liKE Gores isnt teh one who hired this silly@ss coach is in teh words of Tayshaun “Buffoonery”.  

          • Nov 13, 20122:50 pm
            by tarsier

            “If he had total control then why did we not get Boozer for Hamilton?”

            Because Utah had no reason to take that deal. They could have used a GS and didn’t need Boozer. But if they were looking to deal Boozer, they could do better. 

          • Nov 13, 20122:53 pm
            by tarsier

            Do you really think Bill tied Dumars’ hands because he was dying? Karen had no say over the franchise at that point, so she surely wasn’t.

            “I just feel its counter productive to sit here and put all teh onus on Joe when he is the Gm not the one who cuts the check, period.”

            Who cares who cuts the checks? The GM is hired to make the decisions. So yeah, he is responsible for the decisions. If that is not the case, why does the owner hire a GM instead of an executive advisor or some such? I’m sure the latter would cost less. 

        • Nov 13, 201211:56 am
          by sebastian

          Reply

          Rick, there seems to not be any other GMs that are willing, interested, you can feel in the blank. When you are the GM of an NBA team and you can negotiate deals with other teams (other than the Bobcats), then your [Joe's] effectiveness, as a GM is useless.
          Then, consider that Daye ($3 million), CV ($8.06 million), and the Ukraine ($1.5 million) have together contributed 8 points more than you and I have, during the first 8 games of the season.
           

    • Nov 13, 201211:02 am
      by Talan

      Reply

      I think this is in part because when we have gone out into free agency, they were massive deals that limited our flexibility. Those big deals to CV and Gordon are not easily forgotten. Additionally, bidding against ourselves with Stuckey and Prince hurt us as well. It doesn’t make much sense that Stuckey is making more than twice as much as a guy like OJ Mayo.

      At least Dumars is good at drafting, because he hasn’t impressed me in the free agent market lately. Does he know that the CBA has changed since 2004?   You can get contributing veterans much cheaper these days. Barbosa, Blatche, Mayo, Collison, Kaman, Rush, Dunleavy…all solid contributors on cheap deals. It does look like we got a good deal on Jerebko and Singler though. 

      • Nov 13, 201211:10 am
        by rick

        Reply

        Ru serious the only person that worth a contract w/o overpaying is Barbosa who I actually thought we should have taken to give Knight and Stuckey a break. The rest is fodder. You would take Blatche even though he’s been a malcontent all his career? Yeah right, great way to get your team started. The rest of those guuys are going on their second, third, and in some cases fourth team but yeah they were gonna dramitically improve Detroit. It is teh coach and when you see that then you will be alright for it. Stop blaming the Gm when Gores signed off on Frank, not Joe.

        • Nov 13, 201211:49 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          None of them (except maybe Collison) will dramatically improve any team. But they will all produce better than BG/CV at a fraction of the price. And that was the point of the comment.

          Collison has been excellent this season, posting 15-3-7 with a steal, half a three, and just 2 TOs per game on 51/44/87 splits. Those are better numbers that any Pistons has posted with the possible exception of Monroe (better counting stats, worse efficiency). 

        • Nov 13, 201211:57 am
          by Talan

          Reply

          I’m not blaming anybody. I applauded Joe for his good signings and questioned his bad ones. He made two big mistakes and he needs time to fix them. I think Dumars is the best GM for this team right now. It’s been difficult to make moves lately, but I think the Gordon trade was good as well as the Singler and Jerebko signings. Not to mention the last three fantastic drafts. 
           
          Would I take Blatche for 900,000 over Kravstov for 1.5 million? Yes I would. I haven’t heard any complaints about him as a teammate in Brooklyn. Part of being a GM is finding assets and buying low. Joe has done the opposite, bid against himself and overpaid for assets. Prince for 7 million or Matt Barnes for the veterans minimum? I’d take Barnes. None of those guys on my list would make a dramatic improvement to the team, but they can fill a need for cheap while offering salary cap flexibility. Mayo is killing it this year for 4 million dollars while Stuckey is slumping for 8.5. 

          Barring a few elite coaches that would never come here anyway, i don’t think a coaching change would make a difference. Everyone is acting like it’s a big travesty that Drummond is not starting. We’re 8 games into the season and he’s 19 years old. A knock on him in college has been immaturity, you can see that in interviews and body language on the court. He looks lost sometimes. He just happens to have immense physical gifts that make up for poor positioning, i’d love for him to have more minutes but I understand why he’s not getting them. I never got the immaturity vibe from Knight, that’s why he started so quickly. 

          • Nov 13, 20122:56 pm
            by tarsier

            The Gordon trade was good if and only if Detroit can make a big splash in FA this summer. If not, Gordon was coming off the books the following summer anyway and the Pistons lost a first rounder for nothing. The odds of a great offseason signing look slim, though, with not a whole lot of exciting free agents likely to be available.

          • Nov 13, 20126:39 pm
            by Talan

            Your exactly right. I like the trade because it offers roster and salary flexibility. What Dumars does with that flexibility is yet to be seen. With Gordon gone, we were free to draft English and Middleton, who I think will be solid. By getting Magette’s huge expiring, we have a trade chip. As a fan, I have cautious optimism that Joe will improve our roster with the flexibility from the Gordon trade. I’m also hoping Mr. Gores buys out CV’s contract and we can move on from that whole debacle. 

          • Nov 14, 20121:58 am
            by tarsier

            Maggette as a trade chip can, at best, bring back something like what he cost ( a draft pick attached to a less desirable contract).

            The Pistons were free to draft Middleton and English with or without Gordon.

            It was a move that traded an asset for an opportunity. We will have to wait and see what Dumars does with that opportunity. But he’d better capitalize. Otherwise, I will post angry comments on PP (I know I’d be scared of that if I were Joe D).

  • [...] Knight struggled with his shot all night for Detroit, missing 11 of his 13 attempts and finishing with eight points, six assists, four rebounds and three turnovers. Rodney Stuckey (19 points on 13 shots, five assists) and Greg Monroe (17 points, six rebounds, four steals) led the way for the Pistons, who fell to 0-8 on the season — the worst start in franchise history. [...]

  • Nov 13, 201210:46 am
    by Talan

    Reply

    I don’t think anyone is getting fired. What good would that do? Who are we going to get that will be an improvement? The writers on this site have written several times that the expectations for this team are so low that even and 0-8 start was not out of the realm of possibility. Bringing in Mike Brown(even he wouldn’t come) will not help Greg Monroe rotate faster defensively. 

    We’re a bad team, but watching every game this year I don’t think we’re going to end up with the worst record. If you watch the Magic, Suns, Kings, Bobcats they all look worse than we do. We’ve played a lot of games on the road and we are a young team, we were going to have a losing record even with the rosiest of predictions. I’m excited about our team this year. Knight has improved, Singler is pushing Tay for minutes, Drummond looks ready to contribute. We were all complaining about not tanking at the end of last year, at least we are tanking early this year. This means we won’t be making the playoffs and get to keep our draft pick this year!

    Stuckey is on a trade friendly contract, imagine trading him for a two guard that can actually shoot or for a first round draft pick. The spacing would give Greg some room to operate. Having the worst record in the NBA does put some pressure on Dumars to make some moves before the deadline. 

    • Nov 13, 201212:22 pm
      by D_S_V

      Reply

      I agree with your statements.

  • Nov 13, 201211:08 am
    by N1ck

    Reply

    With this start and all these expiring contracts… If Joe D doesn’t make a trade this year my faith in the guy is gone. I know, next year’s draft and all that, but he needs to start NOW.

    • Nov 13, 201211:50 am
      by brgulker

      Reply

      He needed to start in 2009.

      • Nov 13, 201211:59 am
        by N1ck

        Reply

        He had much faith in his rebuilding process…
        But It turned out to be a top-notch fiasco. 
        Back to present, he has to try to use some of this dead weight expiring contracts for trade purpose. They are not going to extension anyways. 
        + throw in a solid bench player who is a franchise player on this team.
        He has material to make a good move.

        • Nov 13, 201212:33 pm
          by starlight0997

          Reply

          “He has material to make a good move.”
          Oh? And that is what? Greg Monroe? I’m not sure anyone wants any Piston (for a somewhat big deal) besides Moose here. Maybe other teams would want some for their bench, but that’s about it.
           

          • Nov 13, 20121:03 pm
            by N1ck

            Do you honestly think Maxiell or Willy B. / expiring contracts, have any future here , or some potential we are not aware, or even Stuckey for that matter… Solid bench sparks which play starters here… Use them for picks or someone that has any future potential… Im not going overboard here, I know nobody wants CV or AD… This is going to be another awful season, no doubt about it, but we cannon just wait for next draft… Invest in future IF POSSIBLE. This franchise is static for years, we keep playing the same pieces that are not working…

  • Nov 13, 201211:17 am
    by Reaction

    Reply

    We should honestly try to trade these expiring contracts + Stuckey and Prince by the trade deadline for what they are worth and try to pick up some young players/draft picks if possible because clearly by the time we get good these people will not be on the roster. + It makes no sense now to clear cap space because who do you honestly think the Pistons will recruit to their team.

    • Nov 13, 20122:59 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      If it makes no sense to clear cap space, we should all be howling for Dumars to get sacked for giving up a first round pick to the Bobcats for absolutely zero return.

  • Nov 13, 201211:59 am
    by vic

    Reply

    I get what management is doing. We’ve got good young players, and they don’t want to lose the draft pick. 
    But honestly this is a WTFrank problem. Its his pattern and trend to start off horrible and be conservative and inflexible. Even Kuester did better than this, with less talent.

    Its unexcusable how a coach could Embrace His Process that hard and not have any tactical countermoves or skills that win, even when facing losing streaks this long. And this is a pattern. He has the pieces on his board, but won’t put them in the right places at the right times. This same problem could show up if he is coaching a playoff team, its a pattern.

    I get keeping a high draft pick this year, an then your rebuild is over. But moving forward they need to go for Laimbeer. 

    • Nov 13, 201212:30 pm
      by starlight0997

      Reply

      You know, now I am not sure if the Pistons have the pieces anymore (then again, we are probably not going to see Drummond starting anytime soon). Absent Stuckey’s performance last night and a few flashes from Brandon Knight, the back court is a huge mess on almost all aspects of the game (and we were here waiting to get rid of Ben Gordon). If there is a simple solution to this, the Pistons need a true point guard or at least one that could run an offense smoothly. The front court has potential, but they need to play consistently (again, this is where everyone is questioning Frank’s rotations). Either they just need to glue together, or they get an explosive yet dependable small forward (again, were we not complaining of all the wing players we have last year?)… I’m looking at you Shabazz. Or maybe they just need better leadership.

      • Nov 13, 201212:56 pm
        by vic

        Reply

        backcourt is a mess…

        but Shabazz can finish better than Stuck.
        There are also some better passing pgs that could be available even in the 2nd round: Trey Burke, Mike Carter Williams, Phil Pressey, Lorenzo Brown… at the worst just get Terrence Williams back.

        Plus with how Dre just changes the game and makes it easier for everyone… and in my opinion Jerebko/Singler have enough defence/smarts/hustle to where we dont necessarily need a superstar SF.

        to me Monroe/Drummond/Shabazz could be the big 3, and every one else is a solid starter/reserve. We just need a coach that can fit the pieces together and win.

    • Nov 13, 20121:44 pm
      by apa8ren9

      Reply

      @vic
      I agree with what you said except the Laimbeer part.  There has got to be a new hotshot newblood assistant somewhere that we dont know about that will be able to take the reins in 2 years after Frank’s “process” has run its course and the next level needs to be achieved.

  • Nov 13, 201212:21 pm
    by starlight0997

    Reply

    If the Pistons are not careful, they could be 0-12 until Toronto (unless they maybe split one with Orlando). They actually have a chance against Toronto because the Raptors are in as much disarray as the Piston are, but then five playoff teams come in after that. Wow, a potential 1-17 or 2-16 start…

  • Nov 13, 201212:51 pm
    by sebastian

    Reply

    If L. Frank is not fired, soon, it will become to late to interest anyone else to take the job. I’ve seen enough, already. Fire him, now!

    • Nov 13, 201212:57 pm
      by vic

      Reply

      right… Laimbeer will be our only choice! 

  • Nov 13, 20121:17 pm
    by apa8ren9

    Reply

    Is Luke Ridnour available?  Somebody cheap that can at least throw a dime or two and run an offense?  I can see the reason why Tayshaun suggested we get a veteran point guard.  We dont get any easy baskets.   i dont think its because Knight cant do it, I think its because he doesnt know how to create for others.   I dont think he will ever be a john stockton or mark jackson but he at least needs to know how to create a layup with a 4 on 1 break, he cant even do that now.  I am really frustrated that we havent won a game.  1-7, 2-6, I thought was very possible and Id still be pissed, they havent gotten blown out but its frustrating because Frank isnt using his pieces correctly or better yet hasnt used all of the combinations of pieces (Drummond, Monroe together) to see how it impacts a game.  We are 0-8, Ill give the process another 10 games or so to see if it comes together but this is going to be a long season.  And Ive only watched 3 of the eight games!
     

    • Nov 13, 20123:02 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      What would be the point of acquiring Ridnour? Maybe Detroit wins a few more games this season. To what end? He wouldn’t be a part of the future and the present is not going anywhere unless Dumars manages to swing a trade for LBJ.

      • Nov 13, 20123:48 pm
        by apa8ren9

        Reply

        Because someone needs to show Brandon Knight how to run an offense and throw a dime or two.   Because the process doesnt allow Monroe and Drummond to be on the court at the same time.  Because even thought its going to be a shitty season, Id like to see someone allow us to win sometimes.   Id like a pro to teach Brandon Knight how to set someone up.  Im going off cause Im frustrated, maybe if I see them win a game Ill settle down.  

        • Nov 13, 20126:53 pm
          by Talan

          Reply

          I do think it would be beneficial to get a guy like Luke Ridnour as a steadying hand in the backcourt. I also like Mo Williams, Devin Harris, Kirch Hinrich as guys that can contribute on the cheap. I think a little mentorship for Brandon Knight would do a lot of good. 

        • Nov 14, 20122:05 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          If a PG is brought in to mentor Knight, he better not cost any assets. An expiring PG for Maxiell or Maggette would be a reasonable trade. But Ridnour is not that. So all I can think of as an acceptable deal would be something along the lines of Prince+Middleton/English (second player included to not go over 15 players on roster, youth/potential of throw-in makes up for Prince having one more year on his deal than the guys coming back) for Ridnour+Cunningham. I guess I’d be pretty ambivalent about that deal.

  • Nov 13, 20122:05 pm
    by MrBlockedShot

    Reply

    Our backcourt is right now a disaster and imho  that is the most important point to address for the coaching staff. Our guards are neither shooting nor passing well, and what’s worst, they’re not even capable of defending decently. Is it me or Knight, Bynum, Stuckey are getting beat off the drible almost in every game? They’re not making stops, they’re losing a lot of balls in the silliest way, taking bad decissions and shooting as bad  as I can remember. Knight has been dissapointing for the most part of the season. I understand it’s his second year, and needs to develop and blah blah blah. But, frankly, he’s far away from being a decent NBA guard. So it leaves us with Bynum moving the ball, a guy who seems to be more selfish than ever taking bad shots and a shoting-first guy. Most of the times it seems he’s not looking for anybody but him to finish the play. But, yes, he’s made some good passes to Drummond..maybe one per game? Is it enough to keep him on the floor and not even switching to English? Right now we have nothing to lose.

  • Nov 13, 20122:59 pm
    by MIKEYDE248

    Reply

    Too bad the Lakers signed D’Antoni, if I would have know that he was available, I would have loved to have him over Frank.  Also very glad the Lakers didn’t hire Phil back, I’m sick of seeing him coach superstar players to champianship and making it seem like he’s a great coach.

  • [...] Knight struggled with his shot all night for Detroit, missing 11 of his 13 attempts and finishing with eight points, six assists, four rebounds and three turnovers. Rodney Stuckey (19 points on 13 shots, five assists) and Greg Monroe (17 points, six rebounds, four steals) led the way for the Pistons, who fell to 0-8 on the season — the worst start in franchise history. [...]

  • Nov 13, 20126:51 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Pistons may trade expiring contracts for someone they want to keep, rather than wait for free agency in the summer. A lot of teams will have money this summer.

     

    • Nov 13, 20127:11 pm
      by Talan

      Reply

      I think that is a great point. A ton of teams will have money this offseason and with the new CBA free agents are cheaper than ever. We really need to be in this for the long haul and trade some assets for draft picks. If only real life were like NBA2k13…

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